Allowance Busters: Sweet Valley High, Babysitters Club, and other YA serials

[catlover79]

I had a lot of fun going down Memory Lane reading all the posts on this thread. I was reminded of the time I was so engrossed in the BSC Super Special book where they go to a ski lodge. I was in fourth grade at the time. Unfortunately, I was reading the book in class and my teacher caught me. My book was confiscated until the end of the day. OOOOPS. 😂 

[babyhouseman]

Does anybody remember the Caitlyn trilogy by Francine Pascal? I remember reading it, but I can't remember much. I think everybody was rich.

And the Sweet Dreams novels. I had a bunch of them. I think one was about a girl with hearing loss. I remember relating because I have hearing loss.

[Snow Apple]

I read the first Caitlyn book but never got around to the rest. Once they made more books after the original trilogy, I decided I wasn't going to go down the rabbit hole of yet another endless series.I

I loved sweet dreams. I still have several of them. I remember my favorite was about a girl falling for a guy who turned out to be a rock star in disguise. Good times.

[Dr.OO7]

On 6/7/2019 at 7:00 PM, babyhouseman said:

And the Sweet Dreams novels. I had a bunch of them. I think one was about a girl with hearing loss. I remember relating because I have hearing loss

I LOVED those--I found them more realistic that Sweet Valley High--except for the fact that I don't think a black girl was ever featured.

Did anyone belong to the Especially For Girls book club when they were in their pre-teen years? Anyone remember the books from that? I read some really great ones, but the one that broke my heart was Dream Boy, where a girl starts dating a guy she met at the beach. He's cute and sweet, etc., but she finally breaks up with him after being forced to admit that he's also an irresponsible and inconsiderate jerk.

It really struck me, because I think it was the first teen romance book that had a sad ending.

[Black Knight]

7 hours ago, Camille said:

He's cute and sweet, etc., but she finally breaks up with him after being forced to admit that he's also an irresponsible and inconsiderate jerk.

That reminds me a bit of another YA romance serial I don't think I've seen mentioned here, called Couples. In one of the books, the couple has a meet-cute and gets together fast, it's a love/lust-at-first-sight kinda thing - and then they realize they barely know each other and that they're actually pretty incompatible.

[Dr.OO7]

I'm going to assume VC Andrews work belongs here too, since there isn't a separate thread.

I liked the Dollanganger series (I'm sure I spelled that wrong), Casteel series, and My Sweet Audrina. I couldn't get into the Dawn series.

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Camille said:

I'm going to assume VC Andrews work belongs here too, since there isn't a separate thread.

I liked the Dollanganger series (I'm sure I spelled that wrong), Casteel series, and My Sweet Audrina. I couldn't get into the Dawn series.

Not here but there is one in Other TV Talk: Specials, TV Movies and Other One Offs

[Dr.OO7]

On 6/5/2019 at 2:18 PM, catlover79 said:

You and me both!!! High five!!!

Count me in.

[andromeda331]

One thing I love about these books is how many of the teens despite being in a relationship still go on date with other people.  Elizabeth Wakefield? All the time. Jessica Wakefield? Of course. The Fabulous Five during the Caribbean trip all interested in Marco, boyfriends what boyfriends? Nancy Drew sure why not who cares she's been dating Ned forever. Babysitters Club.

I did love how they always managed to get to go on so many trips with their friends. My friends and I always wished we could do that. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by andromeda331

[catlover79]

I guess the main reason I couldn't get into SVH like other teen/tween book series of the time is because I didn't find any of the characters - even the so-called protagonists - likable. Even Elizabeth, who I felt was too holier-than-thou for her own good. Am I alone in feeling this way?

[catlover79]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I did love how they always managed to get to go on so many trips with their friends. My friends and I always wished we could do that. 

They are lucky they were able to go on Watson Brewer's dime. Kristy's stepfather was wealthy and had a mansion, but did we ever find out what he did for a living? Did he come from old money? So many questions we'll probably never learn the answers to. 😂

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

I guess the main reason I couldn't get into SVH like other teen/tween book series of the time is because I didn't find any of the characters - even the so-called protagonists - likable. Even Elizabeth, who I felt was too holier-than-thou for her own good. Am I alone in feeling this way?

Oh no, I read SVH for years even though I hated Elizabeth and Jessica. My favorite character actually ended up being Lila which surprised me. I love writing and books so you'd think it would be Elizabeth but no she was too holier-than-thou, smug and self-righteous and a big hypocrite. Jessica was just a straight up psychopath. But Lila was just cool without having to try and she was more relatable because her father ignored her completely, she didn't really have anyone not even after her parents remarried she was still on her own.  

[andromeda331]

5 minutes ago, catlover79 said:

They are lucky they were able to go on Watson Brewer's dime. Kristy's stepfather was wealthy and had a mansion, but did we ever find out what he did for a living? Did he come from old money? So many questions we'll probably never learn the answers to. 😂

He came from family money, the mansion had been the home he grew up in and he worked insurance. He did pay for some of their trips. Oh, and that one time they won the lotto? And paid for their trip to California. Although why their parents would let them blow it all on that who knows. 

[catlover79]

I did like the spinoffs when the twins were younger - Sweet Valley Kids and Sweet Valley Twins (when the twins and their friends were in elementary and middle schools, respectively). Jessica, in SVH, was especially one-dimensional. 

[starri]

13 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I did love how they always managed to get to go on so many trips with their friends. My friends and I always wished we could do that. 

With the BSC--in addition to Watson trying to buy Kristy's affections--Stoneybrook seemed to have two sides, the upper-class side and the upper-middle-class side.  Given that Stamford seemed like a stand-in for Hartford, with its eleventy-billion insurance companies, the general lack of money problems among the families (exception for the Pikes) seems realistic.  And now I can't stop thinking that Watson was neighbors with Richard and Emily Gilmore.

As an aside, one of the things I really liked about the setting was that so many of the moms worked.  Which also strikes me as realistic for the population Stoneybrook was likely to have.  The moms who were divorcees probably had to (and that provides a need for the BSC's services), but Claudia's mom didn't, nor did Kristy's mom after she remarried.

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, catlover79 said:

I did like the spinoffs when the twins were younger - Sweet Valley Kids and Sweet Valley Twins (when the twins and their friends were in elementary and middle schools, respectively). Jessica, in SVH, was especially one-dimensional. 

I liked those too. 

32 minutes ago, starri said:

With the BSC--in addition to Watson trying to buy Kristy's affections--Stoneybrook seemed to have two sides, the upper-class side and the upper-middle-class side.  Given that Stamford seemed like a stand-in for Hartford, with its eleventy-billion insurance companies, the general lack of money problems among the families (exception for the Pikes) seems realistic.  And now I can't stop thinking that Watson was neighbors with Richard and Emily Gilmore.

As an aside, one of the things I really liked about the setting was that so many of the moms worked.  Which also strikes me as realistic for the population Stoneybrook was likely to have.  The moms who were divorcees probably had to (and that provides a need for the BSC's services), but Claudia's mom didn't, nor did Kristy's mom after she remarried.

Hey, he easily could be neighbors with Richard and Emily! I like that the moms worked and other parts too. Kristy not liking Watson at first and not even bothering to give him a chance. It was realistic considering her dad just took off. Dawn and Stacey's issues dealing with their parents divorce and having one half of their family in different state Dawn going back and forth about going back to California. Even Richard's over protectiveness of Mary Anne made sense with his wife dying when she was a baby and she was all he had. Sure he needed to lighten up but it makes sense even more when you get to the book about MA's grandma who tried to get custody of MA after his wife died. 

[starri]

49 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I like that the moms worked and other parts too.

And the town doctor was a woman.  It's rather sad to think that was probably novel in the mid-80s.

50 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Even Richard's over protectiveness of Mary Anne made sense with his wife dying when she was a baby and she was all he had. Sure he needed to lighten up but it makes sense even more when you get to the book about MA's grandma who tried to get custody of MA after his wife died. 

Even though that plot seemed to come out of nowhere, it made so much sense in hindsight.  Mary Ann seemed to get her saucy sense of humor from her grandmother.  I remember loving that when they met up with Grandma at the Mall of America on their road trip, Grandma really shaded Dawn's father, who was being a total asshole.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, starri said:

And the town doctor was a woman.  It's rather sad to think that was probably novel in the mid-80s.

Even though that plot seemed to come out of nowhere, it made so much sense in hindsight.  Mary Ann seemed to get her saucy sense of humor from her grandmother.  I remember loving that when they met up with Grandma at the Mall of America on their road trip, Grandma really shaded Dawn's father, who was being a total asshole.

Yeah, it really did seem to come out of nowhere but still seemed to fit. Up until that book it make sense a widower raising his only child after losing his wife would go overboard with over protectiveness. But looking back at all the rules and stuff after learning his in-laws had wanted to fight for custody of MA because they didn't think he was fit to raise her. It makes even more sense he went overboard trying to prove he could.

It was great seeing where MA got that part of her from. I don't think it came from Richard.

I'm not even sure why Dawn's dad was being such an asshole by that point Mary Anne had stayed with him twice both times after she was Dawn's stepsister and they got along fine. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 7/18/2019 at 6:54 PM, andromeda331 said:

. I love writing and books so you'd think it would be Elizabeth but no she was too holier-than-thou, smug and self-righteous and a big hypocrite. 

I hated her. I thought she was self-righteous to the point of cruelty.

I liked Cara. She had a very realistic evolution from secondary Mean Girl to nice girl.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Camille said:

I hated her. I thought she was self-righteous to the point of cruelty.

I liked Cara. She had a very realistic evolution from secondary Mean Girl to nice girl.

Cara was another good character. From Sweet Valley Twins and Friends I really liked Mandy, Mary, Amy, Lila of course, Nora, Brooke, Lois and Caroline. I know Caroline got ragged on for being a gossip but they were all gossips. I'm not sure why she was singled out for that and it being bad when they all did it.

[Dr.OO7]

12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Cara was another good character. From Sweet Valley Twins and Friends I really liked Mandy, Mary, Amy, Lila of course, Nora, Brooke, Lois and Caroline. I know Caroline got ragged on for being a gossip but they were all gossips. I'm not sure why she was singled out for that and it being bad when they all did it.

More Sweet Valley High hypocrisy.

[Starleigh]

Wasn't Claudia's mom the head librarian at the local public library? I think the number of working moms and stay at homes were probably equal. Mrs. Pike, Mrs. Ramsey, Mrs. McGill (until she got divorced) were all SAHM.

I read the Sweet Valley Twins in elementary, they were first published when I was in second grade. I remember my seatmate in second grade getting her scholastic book order with SVT #1 and thinking that the girls on the cover looked so grown up, lol. ( I guess the word "sophisticated" wasn't yet in my vocabulary.) I liked them quite a bit, but the BSC, which came out maybe 2 years later were my top series. 

[starri]

12 hours ago, Starleigh said:

Wasn't Claudia's mom the head librarian at the local public library? I think the number of working moms and stay at homes were probably equal. Mrs. Pike, Mrs. Ramsey, Mrs. McGill (until she got divorced) were all SAHM.

Mrs. Ramsey went back to work fairly early in the series, which is why Aunt Cecelia moved in.

[Starleigh]

Right, I forgot about "Jessi's Babysitter"-- I think I was aging out of the series by then, so I probably only read it once or twice, vs the dozens of times I read the earlier books. And I just remembered how that Mrs. Pike joined a temp agency when Mallory's dad lost his job. It's funny how this thread is recalling so many little bits of trivia I'd forgotten I knew, lol.

[catlover79]

On 7/19/2019 at 7:01 AM, starri said:

With the BSC--in addition to Watson trying to buy Kristy's affections--Stoneybrook seemed to have two sides, the upper-class side and the upper-middle-class side.  Given that Stamford seemed like a stand-in for Hartford, with its eleventy-billion insurance companies, the general lack of money problems among the families (exception for the Pikes) seems realistic.  And now I can't stop thinking that Watson was neighbors with Richard and Emily Gilmore.

As an aside, one of the things I really liked about the setting was that so many of the moms worked.  Which also strikes me as realistic for the population Stoneybrook was likely to have.  The moms who were divorcees probably had to (and that provides a need for the BSC's services), but Claudia's mom didn't, nor did Kristy's mom after she remarried.

Did Kristy's mom and Watson ever have kids together, or did their situation remain just "yours and mine"?

[starri]

They did adopt Emily Michelle.

Good lord, I'm 41, how can I still remember all of this.

[Starleigh]

Right, and then Kristy's grandmother moved in to their mansion to be a nanny/housekeeper. Now that I think about it, why didn't the Brewers just hire a live in? They could certainly afford it, and Kristy always described her grandmother as being super independent and active. Why would she want to be tied down with a 2 year old at her age?!

Edited July 22, 2019 by Starleigh

[catlover79]

You're right, I had forgotten about Emily Michelle. Thank you. I do remember that Kristy's grandmother's car was dubbed The Pink Clinker. 😉😂

[starri]

And Shannon the person and Shannon the dog. 

[catlover79]

22 minutes ago, starri said:

And Shannon the person and Shannon the dog. 

Yes, I remember them too!! ☺

[andromeda331]

Karen named her pet rat after Emily Michelle. 

[starri]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Karen named her pet rat after Emily Michelle. 

Yeah, well Karen was a huge brat.

I don't care that you're a fucking Too-Too, Karen.

[catlover79]

Karen was indeed a gigantic brat...so unworthy of having her own spinoff series!!

[andromeda331]

21 hours ago, starri said:

Yeah, well Karen was a huge brat.

I don't care that you're a fucking Too-Too, Karen.

15 hours ago, catlover79 said:

Karen was indeed a gigantic brat...so unworthy of having her own spinoff series!!

Oh, I hated Karen. She was such an horrible brat and I really hate that she got away with whatever she did or the weird everyone acting like she was so cute when she was so horrible. I know that's because the author loved her so much and thought everything Karen did was so cute and great. But there's just so many thing in the BSC books and in her spin off with her being so horrible its really hard to imagine at least for me what made the author think she was so great. Ah, biting her father's hand at his wedding? Ruining the carnival the BSC put together because she's been to a "real" carnival. One that I can never forget is her getting an invite to the birthday party for a girl she hates and decides she's going to ruin that girl's birthday party and gets her friends to agree. But when she goes to the party all her friends changed their mind realizing no matter how much they hate the girl its wrong to ruin her birthday and Karen gets mad at her friends for changing their minds about ruining another girl's birthday. Stealing the pin Watson gave to Kristy it was a family pin that he inherited and decided to give to Kristy considering her his oldest daughter which was really sweet. But Karen ruins by being ticked off and steals the pin and loses it. Then can't imagine why Kristy's mad at her. 

[andromeda331]

I think this has been said before but one thing I really liked about the Babysitters Club were the different families. You had Kristy's family which was her mom, her brothers and her, Claudia's with both parents, older sister and grandmother, Mary Anne and her dad, and Stacey and her parents. One divorced, one deceased parent, two married parents but one with two kids and one with just one. I do wish we could have kept Kristy's family that way for a while. I realize no one could have predicted how long the series would last. I liked the remarriages and the different ones from that. Kristy's gaining a stepdad, stepbrother and stepsister who were younger then her. Mary Anne ended up getting that too but one the same age and one younger. Kristy's family deciding to adopt a child while Richard and Sharon were happy and done with their mixed family of three kids. It seemed realistic some people remarry and will want to have another child and others don't. You'd almost think it would be reversed since Richard was alone all those years raising his child while Kristy's mom and stepdad had younger children. Dawn's dad remarried and had a baby with her. The other girls Mallory the oldest of 8 and parents, Jessi the oldest but with a younger sister and brother. Abby later with her twin and widowed mom. The different divorces Kristy never seeing her dad except for a couple creepy times, Dawn's parents divorced and she had to move across the country with her mom and always struggling between the two she loved both parents and liked both places but ended up choosing to go back to California, Karen and Andrew originally starting out every other weekend and a couple weeks in the summer and switching later to every other month. I do like that we got a couple books of just her and her mom. Stacey's parents divorcing in the series and she having to decide whether to go with her mom to CT or stay in NYC with her dad. Then how hard it was to have to tell her dad she chose CT. Both would be really hard. I do wish they had Mary Anne and Abby bonding a little more over their parent loss and Kristy-Dawn- Stacey over their divorced parents. I do liked Stacey calling Dawn for advice during her parents fight and divorce and trying not to pressure Stacey no matter how much she wanted her to come back. Claudia feeling closest to her grandmother but also how often Mary Anne would go to Mimi for advice especially in her first book when she's trying to figure out how to talk to her dad about what the rules after it goes badly the first time (to be fair Mary Anne did chose the wrong moment, her dad was already in a bad mood when she tried to talk to him.). Stacey's dad dating again and deciding by the end of the series to propose. I liked that Stacey's mom didn't. Except for one book she doesn't date or seem interested which makes since given her recent divorce. Not everyone starts dating again immediately. In the book she dates and Stacey is really encouraging and disappointed when her mom breaks up with the guy (who was a jerk so good move Maureen) but tells Stacey she's not ready. 

Beyond the girls there were a couple families they sat for that were divorced Barretts and Kuhns. Families moving from different parts of the country and one all the way from Australia. 

[Minneapple]

Alicia Silverstone as Kristy's mom? Man, I'm old. Also Mark Feuerstein from Royal Pains as Watson for the upcoming Netflix show. I still wonder if they're going to age up the baby-sitters, to 15 or 16 or so.

[Black Knight]

Yeah, it was really hard seeing the teens on the old WB teen shows start playing the parents on the CW teen shows. (I believe it started with Shiri Appleby, who went from teen on Roswell to mom on Life Unexpected. Thankfully somewhere along the way, she'd learned to emote.)

I don't think they will age up the babysitters. A lot of tweens are into BSC nowadays via the graphic novel adaptations, and they'll want to keep that audience. Older babysitters mean more mature storylines. Since they're describing their show as "family-friendly" that points to them wanting to keep the stories at the same level as the books.

Has anyone else read any of the graphic novels? My 8-year-old niece loves to read them with me. I'm still disappointed that Claudia's ludicrous outfits from the books aren't depicted, but that aside, they're quite fun reading.

[Minneapple]

My 7-year-old daughter loves the graphic novels. They are truly a labor of love. It's fun to have her ask me questions about the series and to reminisce about the BSC through her experience with it.

[starri]

11 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Alicia Silverstone as Kristy's mom? Man, I'm old

Even acknowledging that that she's not Cher Horowitz any more, I never really pictured Elizabeth Thomas Brewer as anything but a kind of frazzled single mom, not a Total Betty.

[Dejana]

I just don't know how BSC works in a modern context. I'm sure they'll find a way-it'll be like a Disney show where  the kids have a very free-range existence  (when it's convenient to the story). Beyond it stretching credulity that adults in 2019 would hire from an organization of 13 year old caretakers, even if you age them up, bright high school kids these days are up to their eyeballs in extracurricular activities and don't have time for endless babysitting jobs.

I don't remember Watson or Elizabeth being that nice looking in the book sketches, but then, I do recall the BSC books having some unflattering illustrations in general, particularly the black and white drawings.  Cynically as an adult, I'll say that a man who's a millionaire with a mansion has options when he's dating, so the middle-class single mom of four who catches his eye is most likely going to be very nice looking.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Dejana

[catlover79]

Does anyone recall how Elizabeth Thomas and Watson Brewer met? I honestly don't.

[Jenniferbug]

I want to say they met through work somehow, but I honestly may be making that up since I don't recall what either of them do for their career.

[scarynikki12]

I don't know that they ever said. The first book has them newly engaged and nothing came up on my Google search. Since they lived in the same town my guess is that they met at the grocery store or in the waiting room at the dentist or something and hit it off right away. Maybe the new series will fill in those blanks.

[Athena]

15 hours ago, Dejana said:

I don't remember Watson or Elizabeth being that nice looking in the book sketches, but then, I do recall the BSC books having some unflattering illustrations in general, particularly the black and white drawings.  Cynically as an adult, I'll say that a man who's a millionaire with a mansion has options when he's dating, so the middle-class single mom of four who catches his eye is most likely going to be very nice looking.

Watson was probably looking for someone to look after bratty Karen and Andrew. From the brief glimpses we saw of Elizabeth, she seemed to be doing alright for a woman who had been abandoned with 4 kids. She seemed resilient and was maternal with Mary Anne too. Watson isn't described as an attractive guy; he's known more for his kindness and generosity. 

Watson is said to own his own business so he probably is like the Gilmores. 

Among the many many inside jokes on the Babysitter's Club Club Podcast is that Mallory's dad John Pike is illustrated as really good looking compared to all the other adults. See their FB post about it here.

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, catlover79 said:

Does anyone recall how Elizabeth Thomas and Watson Brewer met? I honestly don't.

8 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

I want to say they met through work somehow, but I honestly may be making that up since I don't recall what either of them do for their career.

5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I don't know that they ever said. The first book has them newly engaged and nothing came up on my Google search. Since they lived in the same town my guess is that they met at the grocery store or in the waiting room at the dentist or something and hit it off right away. Maybe the new series will fill in those blanks.

3 hours ago, Athena said:

Watson was probably looking for someone to look after bratty Karen and Andrew. From the brief glimpses we saw of Elizabeth, she seemed to be doing alright for a woman who had been abandoned with 4 kids. She seemed resilient and was maternal with Mary Anne too. Watson isn't described as an attractive guy; he's known more for his kindness and generosity. 

Watson is said to own his own business so he probably is like the Gilmores. 

Among the many many inside jokes on the Babysitter's Club Club Podcast is that Mallory's dad John Pike is illustrated as really good looking compared to all the other adults. See their FB post about it here.

No, they never did. In the first book Watson's recently divorced and they've been dating a few months. I remember the 'recently' divorced part because there were a lot of girls (including me) wondering if they met before he was divorced. Also both he and his ex-wife met other people and remarried pretty quickly. Lisa was already engaged in that book (unless you have the old version when she's either Sheila or Kendall) but her fiancé was away. I don't think they meant it to come off that way but it did. Although in Lisa's case that would explain how she ended up in a little house after the divorce.

I'll definitely watch but I don't think I can see Alicia Silverstone as Elizabeth. Maybe Maureen with her spending habits or Sharon with her scatterbrain. 

[starri]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Sharon with her scatterbrain. 

Sharon could party with the Haiti-ans.

[Minneapple]

Yeah, Alicia Silverstone (especially with the blond hair) as Dawn or Stacey's mom seems more apt. But I guess we'll find out. I just hope they do justice to Claudia's outfits.

[Black Knight]

On 8/9/2019 at 8:30 AM, Minneapple said:

I just hope they do justice to Claudia's outfits.

I doubt they'll try to go with the books there. The books always claimed that Claudia's outfits looked great somehow, but that's impossible from the descriptions, which always read like the writers just randomly pulled slips of paper out of a bowl. They'll just dress Claudia sort of arty.

[Black Knight]

EW has a new interview with Francine Pascal, complete with a portrait of her done by the illustrator who did so many of the SVH book covers.

I knew she had ghostwriters for Sweet Valley, but I actually didn't know that she never wrote a single one of the books herself. I assumed she'd written the first few and then had ghostwriters take over.

It's an extensive interview in which she covers not only SVH (including the current movie developments) but her other books - books she actually wrote herself.

[Mondrianyone]

Just now, Black Knight said:

I knew she had ghostwriters for Sweet Valley, but I actually didn't know that she never wrote a single one of the books herself. I assumed she'd written the first few and then had ghostwriters take over.

I knew it because I was the person who line-edited the first four books of the series.  The ghostwriters weren't all that good, so their work mostly needed to be completely rewritten.  I think I got a hot 11 bucks an hour.  I was aware that the series became huge, but I never read another book after those first four.  They're her characters and her plotlines, but most of the actual words on the page are mine.  The more you know . . .  😎

Edited August 18, 2019 by Mondrianyone
OCD