Laura Ingalls Wilder's "Little House" Series

[Mybrainhurts]

I just pre-ordered it from Amazon!  September 1st never seemed so far away.

[kikismom]

I know! The long hot desert of summer...then, the deluge: the release of The Walking Dead Season 4 dvds and Pioneer Girl!? I can't handle it! (but I will! :-D)

[kathyk24]

I don't blame Laura for being annoyed with Grace. She's been taught not cry since she was little so why should Grace be different?

[BatmanBeatles]

That sometimes happens with the youngest. Parents tend to loosen up rules.

[nodorothyparker]

Too bad they aren't selling stock in The South Dakota Historical Society Press---we could get rich! (We'd live like kings!)

 

So we each get a potato and a slice of bread smeared with fat?

[sgittinger]

Never complain of what you have, nodorothyparker. Always remember you are fortunate to have it! And remember not to laugh at the dinner table.

[nodorothyparker]

Yes, Ma.  If anybody needs me, I'll be contritely in the corner teaching school and sewing shirts so I can pay for new clothes for everybody else to make up for it.

[PrincessLuceval]

I always loved the expression that Mrs. White used when she and Laura were sewing all the shirts. "We're behindhand!" It sounded somewhat dirty. :)

[sgittinger]

My name is Tay Pay Pryor...

[smittykins]

...and I'm DRUNK! :)

[sgittinger]

A disgrace to snakes. That's what it is.

[Runningwild]

I had a book once that was kind of an overview of the LH series and also talked about what was missed, like the little brother and more about Mary's illness. I loaned it out and never saw it again. Now I can't remember the name of the book. Anyone know which book it could be?

[henrysmom]

Here is an article on the book we probably all have preordered, Pioneer Girl:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/aug/25/laura-ingalls-wilder-memoir-little-house-prairie

 

The comments section is priceless.  The infamous "Sylvia" episode of the tv series is brought up (and rightly mangled for the horror it was--I'm still terrified of mimes because of that $##% episode).

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

Here is an article on the book we probably all have preordered, Pioneer Girl:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/aug/25/laura-ingalls-wilder-memoir-little-house-prairie

 

The comments section is priceless.  The infamous "Sylvia" episode of the tv series is brought up (and rightly mangled for the horror it was--I'm still terrified of mimes because of that $##% episode).

The old TWoP board on Little House made reference to "That mime that raped Sylvia." As I must have missed that episode, what happened? And who was Sylvia?

[kikismom]

I had a book once that was kind of an overview of the LH series and also talked about what was missed, like the little brother and more about Mary's illness. I loaned it out and never saw it again. Now I can't remember the name of the book. Anyone know which book it could be?

If it was paperback it might be this http://www.amazon.com/Laura-The-Life-Ingalls-Wilder/dp/0380016362

[PrincessLuceval]

 

The old TWoP board on Little House made reference to "That mime that raped Sylvia." As I must have missed that episode, what happened? And who was Sylvia?

Oh, my. The whole snark appeal of TWoP's LH thread was indeed, based upon the horror that was the Sylvia episode. This might help you understand it, but it may need to be seen to be appreciated for all of the "WTF was Michael Landon thinking?" that went into it.

 

http://badassdigest.com/2011/08/24/raped-by-a-mime-the-creepiest-episode-of-little-house-on-the-prairie

[BatmanBeatles]

I've always been curious about Ma's vanity cakes. Are they like fritters?

[kikismom]

I've always been curious about Ma's vanity cakes. Are they like fritters?

they seem more like popovers to me but you decide:

 

HERE'S THE RECIPE WITH PHOTOS OF THE PROCESS/RESULT

http://thisisbeige.blogspot.com/2011/05/laura-ingalls-recipes-vanity-cakes.html

[nodorothyparker]

Jesus, 1 to 2 pounds of LARD with egg, salt, and flour with a dusting of sugar.  And those were described as a treat.

[Snow Apple]

I've eaten food cooked in lard way back in the day and I have to say...it's delicious!

[BatmanBeatles]

Huh. I pictured them like Mexican frittershttp://www.muybuenocookbook.com/2010/12/bunuelos-mexican-fritters/ (which are delicious BTW).

Edited August 30, 2014 by BatmanBeatles

[kikismom]

I've eaten food cooked in lard way back in the day and I have to say...it's delicious!

Grandma made pie crust with chicken fat...and you never tasted anything so good!  Bring on the fat!

[Athena]

I still make my pie crusts with lard (about 1/3 to 2/3 butter). Very flakey and delicious crust. Finding good quality lard takes some research, but I tend to freeze it when I get it. I like all butter crusts, but they aren't as flakey.

[BatmanBeatles]

Maybe a little baking powder would make the vanity cakes turn out better.

[stopeslite]

It occurs to me - for all of the shiftiness of Charles, it seems that Laura pulled off the biggest and best con: she convinced generations of people that her family was happy and upstanding and moral and wonderful. She literally rewrote her own history and gave herself a better past than what she had, and whitewashed her own family's reputation in the process. 

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

It occurs to me - for all of the shiftiness of Charles, it seems that Laura pulled off the biggest and best con: she convinced generations of people that her family was happy and upstanding and moral and wonderful. She literally rewrote her own history and gave herself a better past than what she had, and whitewashed her own family's reputation in the process. 

This is true, though I think Rose deserves some credit for the con.  If Laura had had her way, only "Pioneer Girl" would have been published, but Rose saw the dollar signs in a heartwarming children's series and also saw the opportunity to push her propaganda.  Reading those letters between them was eye-opening for me, because you see just how persuasive Rose was in shaping the series the way she wanted it.  Of course, Laura is hardly innocent, since she went along with it.  Anyway, it gives you something to think about.

[kikismom]

With all that we have learned though, Laura may have inadvertently achieved a worthwhile purpose that was the opposite of what she intended: instead of a picture of the heartwarming pioneer days...the contradictions in her books tell the story of how 600,000 homesteads failed in the West.

[kathyk24]

I'll still take the books over the TV show. Michael Landon took children's books and turned them into a soap opera.

[BatmanBeatles]

I think Rose kind of looked like Maggie Gyllenhaal.

Edited September 10, 2014 by BatmanBeatles

[Mybrainhurts]

Hope this isn't too far off topic but Canvas Network is giving a course on Laura Ingalls Wilder (taught by Pamela Smith Hill, the author of Laura Ingalls Wilder, A Writer's Life and the Annotated Pioneer Girl).  It's called "Laura Ingalls Wilder: Exploring Her Work & Writing Life".  It starts September 22--I'm already signed up and I figured since everyone here are fans of Laura, I'd pass it on. 

[ElderPrice]

Thanks for the tip! I signed up, it's free.

[BatmanBeatles]

I finished reading "Ghost In The Little House". It was a bit hard to get through. Some of it was pretty dry, particularly the parts where Rose traveled. What stood out to me is that of all her photographs as an adult, she only smiles in one. The one when she's 18 with her stylish new clothes.

[psychoticstate]

Hope this isn't too far off topic but Canvas Network is giving a course on Laura Ingalls Wilder (taught by Pamela Smith Hill, the author of Laura Ingalls Wilder, A Writer's Life and the Annotated Pioneer Girl).  It's called "Laura Ingalls Wilder: Exploring Her Work & Writing Life".  It starts September 22--I'm already signed up and I figured since everyone here are fans of Laura, I'd pass it on. 

 

Thank you, mybrainhurts.  Signed up!

[CherryAmes]

I've noticed in this thread and in the readalong thread that people seem very negative about Pa.  Was there information in particular that has come out about him that makes you all feel that way or is it just that he kept dragging the family further west and making stupid choices?

[Mybrainhurts]

I've noticed in this thread and in the readalong thread that people seem very negative about Pa.  Was there information in particular that has come out about him that makes you all feel that way or is it just that he kept dragging the family further west and making stupid choices?

 

There is one thing that Pa did during the Burr Oak Iowa period that was completely dishonest--he and the family snuck out of town without paying the landlord and may have owed other people money.  This was covered in the Donald Zochert biography Laura but never mentioned in the Little House books.  Ostensibly, Pa did it because he felt that he was being ripped off by the landlord but that's not something a scrupulously honest man like Pa supposedly was would do.  I always felt that was one reason Iowa was completely left out from the Little House books.

 

Other than that, Pa's careless ways and dependence on Laura's wages to help put Mary through school was enough to turn me against him.  I mean, what kind of parent makes a fourteen year old girl worry about a job to the point that Laura was worried throughout the last 3 or 4 books?  That's just my opinion though.

[smittykins]

Yeah, no 14/15-year-old should be afraid that "If I can't learn my lessons, I may not be able to get a teacher's certificate, and Mary might have to leave college, and it'll be All My Fault."  That's a hell of a burden to bear.

[CherryAmes]

On the other hand if the family had lived in England at the time these books were set she'd have probably been out working in the local rich man's house as early as 13 and sending most of her wages home - if she'd been a boy she might have been working down in the coal mines at an even earlier age.  Children didn't get to stay children long when they were growing up in a poor family.

[jammaker]

 

On the other hand if the family had lived in England at the time these books were set she'd have probably been out working in the local rich man's house as early as 13 and sending most of her wages home - if she'd been a boy she might have been working down in the coal mines at an even earlier age.  Children didn't get to stay children long when they were growing up in a poor family.

 

I don't think it would be as bad if the pressure was to help put food on the table and all able bodies were contributing to that.   But to put the pressure on her for her sister to go to college of all things - which, what did she DO with that education, precisely?   That's what feels so wrong about it.  It wasn't helping out with the necessary aspects of life - though she was immediately expected to pay for her own clothes - it was going to something extra, something nice but not needed, that only benefited one member of the family.

[Queena]

I wonder why LIW didn't include Manly's sister Laura in Farmer Boy? Is it because she was older, and maybe married while Manly was a child? I can't wait for Pioneer Girl.

[CherryAmes]

But to put the pressure on her for her sister to go to college of all things - which, what did she DO with that education, precisely?

 

I always thought 7 years was a little excessive but I never felt that it was wrong to want Mary to go to school.  She learned how to be independent and was no longer tied to her rocking chair for one thing!  Also as Ma said, she had a chance to store up some happy memories that she would have for the rest of her life. Aside from that though Laura would have been expected to work whether Mary was going to go away to school or not, for the purpose of the books helping send Mary to the school for the blind made Laura working at such a young age a noble self sacrifice rather than the dire necessity it probably really was.

Edited September 22, 2014 by CherryAmes

[jammaker]

 

I always thought 7 years was a little excessive but I never felt that it was wrong to want Mary to go to school.

 

I never felt it was wrong to want Mary to go to school - I felt it was wrong to put the pressure on Laura to finance Mary's ability to go to school, have nice clothes to take to school, be able to come home for summers, etc.    For me, it would have made it more palatable if this education led to Mary being able to contribute to the family financially after, but ultimately if you're pressuring your child to work, that money should be going to necessities not luxuries, and education for education's sake - while nice - is in the luxury category.

[henrysmom]

I think Mary's attending college was a mix of necessity and luxury.  Before she went away, she was basically useless--she couldn't help around the house by doing any chores.  Basically all she did was sit in her chair and occasionally "mind Grace" so she didn't get in the way of those doing the work.  

 

The school for the blind did teach her that she wasn't helpless, even if she was blind.  She relearned how to do chores, how to sew, and do some crafts that earned her at least a little bit of money.  On her first trip back home, her family was impressed with how independent she had become, so kudos to the school for that.

 

As to the other aspects of the curriculum, Mary was always portrayed as somebody who wanted to learn.  Having read the curriculum at the school for the blind, I'm impressed. It reads better than my college curriculum of 100 plus years later.  So while learning about zoology wasn't necessary for somebody with an inquiring mind I'm sure it was a good thing for Mary.

 

 

On the other hand if the family had lived in England at the time these books were set she'd have probably been out working in the local rich man's house as early as 13 and sending most of her wages home - if she'd been a boy she might have been working down in the coal mines at an even earlier age.  Children didn't get to stay children long when they were growing up in a poor family.

 

 

Not only in England.  My mother likes to tell the story about her father running away from home because he didn't want to work at the factory job his father had gotten for him.  So he ran away and stayed away for about ten years.

 

How old was he when he ran away?  Twelve.  And he'd already been working at the factory for at least 2, possibly 3 years.

 

He was born in Chicago in 1900.  Yeah, the "good old days" weren't so very good if you actually know what went on back then.

[CherryAmes]

How old was he when he ran away?  Twelve.  And he'd already been working at the factory for at least 2, possibly 3 years.

 

Good point, I mentioned England because I've been on a reading jag reading books set in Victorian and Edwardian England but you're absolutely right things like this happened commonly in the US and Canada too.  At least for Laura when you look at her working life it was short spurts of a few weeks to at most 3 months at a time, then she went back to school.  Her parents, unlike many others of the time, valued education - and education for girls at that!  Ma and Pa made their mistakes that we can all pick at but they did do some things right IMO.

Edited September 22, 2014 by CherryAmes

[henrysmom]

It's odd, but when I read the books when I was young I loved Pa and hated Ma.  Pa was just so cool, always wanting to take off for new places, letting Laura do "unladylike" things like help with the outside work and take care of the animals.  And Ma was always putting a wet blanket over Laura's notions and trying to get her to "act like a lady" AKA Mary.

 

But now I can see the balancing act the parents pulled off.  Without Ma's stabilizing influence, Laura probably would have run wild.  And back then, that would <not> have done Laura any favors.  Together I think Ma and Pa made a great parenting team.  Pa understood Laura, but Ma gave her the grounding and education that served her well in later life.

 

I still hate that Ma gave away Charlotte though.

[CherryAmes]

I still hate that Ma gave away Charlotte though.

 

Yep.  Someone upthread (or maybe it was the readalong thread) though gave a possible explanation that never occurred to me when I was reading that book as a child, or even now as an adult.  It does make sense that Ma would want to keep on the good side of people who were going out of their way to help them.  I mean that doesn't make Ma right but at least it's a better reason than the one I remember coming up with as a child, which basically was Ma was a meanie!  It's been awhile since I read Plum Creek, didn't Laura end up finding Charlotte abandoned in a puddle and Ma "brought her back to life" so to speak?  Or am I remembering that wrong?

Edited September 22, 2014 by CherryAmes

[smittykins]

 

It's been awhile since I read Plum Creek, didn't Laura end up finding Charlotte abandoned in a puddle and Ma "brought her back to life" so to speak?  Or am I remembering that wrong?

No, you're right.  I can't remember where I read it, but supposedly,

in the Pioneer Girl manuscript, Laura finds Charlotte in the puddle, but doesn't "rescue" her.

[henrysmom]

I just cannot wait to get my hands on Pioneer Girl!

 

As an adult I can <kind of> just <kind of> mind you, see Ma's thinking.  She wants to be nice to the neighbors who had been so good to them, and Laura never plays with Charlotte.  So why not give the doll away?

And when Charlotte is "rescued" Ma is understanding and helps fix up the doll.

 

But still...that is some rough parenting, to pretty much force your daughter to give away the one toy she owns.

 

It will be interesting to read Pioneer Girl and see what happens there. 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

I wonder why LIW didn't include Manly's sister Laura in Farmer Boy? Is it because she was older, and maybe married while Manly was a child?

I assumed it was to prevent reader confusion between Laura Wilder and LIW herself.

[smittykins]

And to add to the confusion, during the sugaring-off dance in LHITBW, we hear of a cousin also named Laura Ingalls.

[Melgaypet]

Pa's mother was also named Laura.

 

Here's a fun fact: For all of Rose Wilder's hatred of FDR, they were distantly related. Pa's paternal grandmother was a Delano.