S13.E23: Let the Good Times Roll

[Castiels Cat]

6 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

So what now?  Is Dean going to lay waste to the planet?  Where are they going with this?  I know it's Michael but is Dean going to watch it all happen?  What is that going to do to him?  This is the last thing Dean's psyche needed.

 

I'm sorry but that fight in the church was just awful.  Editing.  It has been a problem for 2 years now.

I love that "most of the refugees have settled in town".  Really?  Did they all get jobs at Walmart?  How are they paying rent?

Well ... some bad things will happen ...yes and It will be on Dean... This is his tragic fall.

Afterwards he will go through self reflection, redemption and growth.  So he will get better.   

And apparently the depression arc was tied to Mary.  He perked up nicely once she was home.  He seemed really happy before everything went South.  I was really worried about his suicidal tendencies.  Fean's behavior in "AT" freaked me out. He just needed Mary with him and Sam,  Jack and Cas... his family. 

[BoxManLocke]

12 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

I love that "most of the refugees have settled in town".  Really?  Did they all get jobs at Walmart?  How are they paying rent?

 

Lebanon, Kansas is going to go bankrupt in a few months because half its inhabitants are credit card scammers.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

The first half was boring and weak as hell. The second half was a lot better once they got rid of the pointless characters and focused straight on the mains and Michael. So I'm just focusing on the second half of the finale.

I will say that I enjoyed everything Jack here. I totally get him wishing that his father wasn't a psychopath and having to find out the hard way that it wasn't true. I can't blame him for hoping, especially since he's technically only been alive for a year and he's only just met Lucifer. I like that he was willing to sacrifice himself. He still has a lot of good in him and fought the darkness given to him by his father. 

I liked Jack's takedown of Michael, but I'm annoyed at what Lucifer did to his son.

So, Dean becomes Michael. The fight scene was extremely cheesy, but I was satisfied in Lucifer's death. Thank god the Devil is dead! I mean, at least for now, but he truly seems to be dead. No surprise Michael went back on his deal. 

Michael!Dean could be fun to watch for a bit next season. 

The beginning felt Blue Velvet before finding the ear ... everything is perfect until there is murder.It should have been truncated though. We needed a bit more time spent on Dean!Michael which felt rushed and looked like I shot, directed and edited it with no training. No wait... I could do better because I watch movies and took enoufhbfilm studies classes to understand about montage and action sequences. Maybe a monkey did that. I was stunned.

The only thing I can think of is that Pellegrino cannot do the action at all and they had nothing. We know Jensen excels. It is inexplicable. Such an important moment and they fart... bigly.

I loved everything Jack too.  I thought his anger would prevent him from dealing with AU Michael. I love that his love allowed him to do it. He was protecting family. He was channeling Dean. He became a Winchester. 

[catrox14]

OH MY GODS.

That was just fucking SATISFYING. I was shouting at the TV and victory arming.

I am okay with Dean's reason for doing it. 

Yes, they have bought my soul for another season or at least another 3 episodes. 

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, Jediknight said:

First half of the episode was boring, and not good.  However, the second half, that was good.

I liked this episode, Jack didn't go evil, he remained good, and still considered himself a Winchester.  Good job for not falling into the trap of turning him evil.  Setting it up that he'll get his power back and in the series finale use it to make Earth a paradise.

MichaelDean should be fun.  Please, for all that is good, don't let it be like Deanmon and wrap it up right away.  Let him stick around till at least I'd say, episode 8 or 9.

Dean killed Hitler and Satan.  That pretty much entitles him to never pay for anything ever again.

Did they set him up to get his powers back? I thought Luci stole them all?

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't have much to say about the episode as a whole, except Mary, maybe next time you should listen to your son. Dean that is. (Call Sam. Really? Fuck you.)

Ding, dong, the dick is dead! -Burned up wings and all. Too bad that's meaningless on the show.

I liked how relieved and happy Sam looked for those five seconds, and how proud Dean was.

And since I know Dean will eventually overcome Michael,  I am just going to enjoy the hell out of Jensen's performance until the little green army men save the day again.

Yeah Dean really has to overcome Michael and stop with the reckless self sacrifices.  

Nice performance from Jensen.

Jack had to see for himself who Lucifer was. Very hard Lesson.

Dean was going to kill him and he is dead.

[catrox14]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I do like that they let Dean tell Michael he was his sword, and not just his vessel.

Seriously. That legit fucking surprised me in a good way. I was all YASSSSSSSSSS.  Coming from Dean it was just the best way to do it. Dean never forgot he was the Michael Sword even if the show tried. And that was probably THE MOST satisfying moment. Even if Dean didn't let Michael possess him, I would have been okay with Dean just being able to say it.

Gods, I'm really surprisingly not annoyed by this episode. I mean I don't know what show I was watching with AU Bobby and Mary walking through the lush rainforests of Lebanon, Kansas and that they apparently aren't all that in a hurry to get by to the AW to save the rest of the planet, but hey you know...that doesn't matter....

I fucking LOVED seeing Michael!Dean with wings.  That was just stupidly satisfying.

Castiel crying is distressing. But he'll save Dean. He will.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam and Jack, and the fact Lucifer just told them he was going to burn the world.

I wonder if Jack is able to regenerate his grace like the other angels?

ETA: Lucifer has been the longest running 'big bad' in the series and nothing they've ever done has stopped him. Now they knew he was willing to kill/drain his son for the ultimate power to destroy humanity. So yeah, Dean had to gamble on the other evil asshole to at least try to stop him. And yes, to save Sam and Jack if he could. I have no issues with that.

It depends if he has any left I think. Metatron stole all of Cas grace so he could not regenerate

I thought Lucifer took everything because at that moment he was done with the dad thing and all  he wanted all along was the power. He conceived him for the power. He seduced him to use his power.  And when that failed he took it.

[Castiels Cat]

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think Jack's grace will regenerate.  Sam said as much when they were debating who should die.  

I thought Sam getting the blade to Dean/Michael at the end was very fitting.  They killed him together and that's how it should be.  The flying through the air scene was just silly.  It was so obvious they were on wires.  They should have just had a normal fight.

Poor Cas looked so sad at the end.  He'll be pleased to learn that Sam and Jack survived and Lucifer is DEAD, but now they need to find a way to deal with Michael.  These archangels are a pain in my ass.

I know some people don't like Bobby, but I'd be very happy to have him stick around to help save Dean next season.  And I'll go one better and say that I hope Mary sticks around, as well.  Helping to save her son would go a long way toward redeeming the character.  Then once Dean is safe, she and Bobby can run away together.

I think they were flying in order for Dean fo fall before Michael took over because Dean offering himself to Michael was a classic  heroic  tragic fall.  He showed bad judgement.   Now bad stuff happens.  The worst ever Dean move.

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The Michael Sword.

So what do we call him? MiDean?

Deachael

[BoxManLocke]

18 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

 

Yeah Dean really has to overcome Michael and stop with the reckless self sacrifices. 

Dean's sacrifice was the opposite of reckless.

He evaluated the risks very quickly and acted accordingly. Castiel understood the urgency as well.

It was actually very refreshing that no one was there to argue and waste time.

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, Binns said:

That makes sense. Dean is a tough cookie though. Michael is in for a fight. Michael also seemed to be...I don’t know if remorseful is the right word but he admitted he made mistakes in AW. And the precipitating factor for the apocalypse there was Michael v Lucifer. In our world that apocalypse didn’t happen. Maybe he won’t be quite as much of a dick. Also there’s the angel issue to be sorted out and heaven. There’s a few interesting ways the story could go. Color me happy to see JA spread his wings in a new role. 

I got the impression he planned to save humanity by killing them one at a time...

[BabySpinach]

5 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I think they were flying in order for Dean fo fall before Michael took over because Dean offering himself to Michael was a classic  heroic  tragic fall.  He showed bad judgement.   Now bad stuff happens.  The worst ever Dean move.

Deachael

I completely disagree that Dean's choice was a "tragic hero fall," or that it remotely compares to Sam's Book of the Damned shenanigans in S10. Let's break it down.

Sam actively made the world worse by releasing the Darkness with the BotD. Dean helped to save it by killing a super-charged Lucifer, preemptively saving multitudes of innocents.

The removal of the Mark of Cain resulted in multiple innocent casualties (Suzie, Oskar, Charlie) and only helped one person. Dean's choice directly saved two people (Jack and Sam) and killed no one.

Both archangels had already invaded the world before Dean made his choice. If he hadn't, they'd have two vicious archangels to deal with instead of one. The best was made of a bad situation. Neither Michael nor Lucifer are exactly upstanding, moral people, but at least Michael hasn't been shown to be needlessly sadistic, whiney, or childish. If we had to pick one, I'd go with Michael. And since Dean's the one he's inhabiting, I suspect he'll have a harder time taking over the world than he anticipated. 

[Castiels Cat]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

A few random additions to what everyone has already said:

1.  I also hated that they made this about "save Sammy" again.  Yes, there was also Jack and Lucifer was absolutely a threat, but he didn't declare that he was going to destroy the world until *after* they left the bunker.  Dean wasn't there to hear that, but he *did* hear Michael brag that he was going to remake the world (in his own image?) and whoops, maybe this time he'd get it right.  Except we have no idea what his idea of "right" is, so I'd have been more wary.  Except, well, Sammy.  *sigh* 

2.  Seriously, did they have to make Dean so stupid that he actually believed that Michael would vacate?  And to whom?  The only other vessels nearby were Sam and Jack, and I'm guessing that wouldn't make Dean (or them) happy.  He can't just pick a random human--even regular angels explode those who aren't vessel-ready, and very few are archangel class.

3. I don't know about having a human evict an archangel.  I imagine (or at least hope) they'll have some major arguments about it (can't you see Dean arguing with himself and jerking his body around, like, "we're going here.  No, I want to go here!  No, I'm in charge!  You're not the boss of me...") :)

4. IA the flying was cheesy.  Maybe if, instead of slowing the action, they'd speeded it up so we wouldn't see all the awkward turns and random hanging in the air?  Make it more like hawks swooping on prey, almost too fast to see until they come together.  

5. I really, *really* hate to bring this up, especially now when everyone is celebrating, but I think it's extremely likely that Luci will be back.  After all, as others have noted, he was filled with nephilim grace, so there's a good possibility that a "plain" archangel blade wouldn't kill him.  Did anyone notice that his wing burn was glittery instead of charcoal?  That might be nephilim grace regenerating.  I'd suggest we all enjoy the summer believing he's gone for good, but be prepared to have him show up again next year (after all, they still need an archangel to get rid of Michael, unless Jack refills and gets better at fighting.  But then he'll be fighting Dean's meatsuit and wouldn't want to hurt it (I assume).)

6. We still have to deal with heaven being empty and hell being leaderless.  I would guess the endgame (say, series finale) would be Michael repopulating and ruling heaven, Luci ruling hell, and both staying the hell out of human affairs, and the boys retiring to the beach, but I don't think any of my guesses have been right yet, so... :)

Season 8 ... Cas killed a nephilim with an angel blade. So archangel blade should kill Lucifer unless rhey want to torture us.

Dean can perhaps fight Michael wirh the help of family. They are framing this as his heroic tragic fall and redemption arc so he has work to do.

Heaven story is still an issue.  Cage Michael?

Good post.

[Myrelle]

It helped to go into this finale with the lowest of expectations.

Loved! that Dean got to be the one to take down Lucifer. Hope he's gone forever.

Looking so forward to Jensen's portrayal of Michael/Dean next season. His transformation into that character at the end was the best thing about this episode.

On the whole, the first half of the episode was just awful, but as someone else mentioned, once Not!Bobby and Mother Mary left, things picked up.

Ugh! to the Jack/Lucifer stuff. Also awful, with the exception of Jack making Lucifer tell the truth about the murder. That's your dear old dad, kid.

The nonsense with Jack and Sam and the archangel blade was ludicrous. The only good thing about that scene was that it preceded Dean/Michael and that awesome wing shot that this fan has been waiting for years to witness. Loved that. So much.

Too bad the fight scene was completely underwhelming and Dean didn't get hardly any good licks in, but again, the low expectations for this Dabb-penned and Singer-directed episode didn't really make that surprising at all.

I was surprised that Dean got to kill Lucifer, though. Really surprised. And Happy.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Myrelle

[BabySpinach]

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

It was the definition of reckless. He handed AU Michael the Michael Sword.  

This was Dean's tragic fall and the showed h8m close up falling to emphasize  thst Dean Winchester has fallen.

There will be blood because of AU Michael. 

Then Dean will get a redemption arc.

Just call me Cassandra.

They must not teach literature anymore.

And what exactly would have been the alternative? Leaving the two vicious archangels in their world? Letting Lucifer do what he pleased after having taken Jack's grace and become the most powerful creature on earth? What else could they have possibly done to address that immediate impending nightmare scenario?

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, devlin said:

Those couple of seconds when Michael took control in the chapel and he looked around and said thanks for suit has me very excited for next season. I can't wait to see what Jensen is going to do with this character.  I just hope this isn't another rendition of demon dean and only lasts for three measly episodes.

+1 to this.

4 hours ago, Binns said:

Dean is a tough cookie though. Michael is in for a fight. Michael also seemed to be...I don’t know if remorseful is the right word but he admitted he made mistakes in AW. And the precipitating factor for the apocalypse there was Michael v Lucifer. In our world that apocalypse didn’t happen. Maybe he won’t be quite as much of a dick. Also there’s the angel issue to be sorted out and heaven. There’s a few interesting ways the story could go. Color me happy to see JA spread his wings in a new role. 

And this, also. I wonder how Michael will keep Dean on the down low while he's driving. I hope we'll get to see that, too.

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

The only time I find a finale exciting is when the cliffhanger is directly connected to/driven by the two main characters. It seems like a no-brainer, but S12 did the opposite of that and left me rolling my eyes and mostly uninvested. Needless to say, I'm very excited (and apprehensive) for S14, and I sincerely hope they'll learn from Demon Dean's too-short reign this time.

You and me both.

[Castiels Cat]

13 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

I completely disagree that Dean's choice was a "tragic hero fall," or that it remotely compares to Sam's Book of the Damned shenanigans in S10. Let's break it down.

Sam actively made the world worse by releasing the Darkness with the BotD. Dean helped to save it by killing a super-charged Lucifer, preemptively saving multitudes of innocents.

The removal of the Mark of Cain resulted in multiple innocent casualties (Suzie, Oskar, Charlie) and only helped one person. Dean's choice directly saved two people (Jack and Sam) and killed no one.

Both archangels had already invaded the world before Dean made his choice. If he hadn't, they'd have two vicious archangels to deal with instead of one. The best was made of a bad situation. Neither Michael nor Lucifer are exactly upstanding, moral people, but at least Michael hasn't been shown to be needlessly sadistic, whiney, or childish. If we had to pick one, I'd go with Michael. And since Dean's the one he's inhabiting, I suspect he'll have a harder time taking over the world than he anticipated. 

Welll Sam has hubris and his dark arc was very bad... no question. 

Dean suffers from low self esteem and has his impulse to sacrifice himself to save others so his tragic flaw is not as onorous.  It is still a tragic flaw and this objectiveky is the worst decision he has made.  He has never knowingly made a,decision that would risk others.  Giving AU Michael the Michael Sword put the world at risk.

When Sam used the BotD he knowingly put the world at risk. So yes they are comparable 

I am stunned they went with AU Michael. I thought it would be cage Michael because AU Michael... He is as bad as Lucifer if not worse.

I knew that this storyline was going to be Dean's heroic tragic fall and eventual redemption arc because they did that with Sam in season 8-11.  And they went very dark with Sam with a good redemption in season 11.

I have known for two seasons we were going to get an Apocalypse with Dean!Michael. I never thought they would have him say yes to AU Michael.  It will be dark. I will just have to focus on the fact that there will be a redemption arc eventially and Dean will fight like hell from within.

Make no mistake this will be framed as a mistake. Castiel's face tells us this.  The long shot of Dean's fall tells us this. This was his tragic fall.  An epic instance of bad judgement and people will die because of it.

I am stunned.

[BabySpinach]

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

Welll Sam has hubris and his dark arc was very bad... no question. 

Dean suffers from low self esteem and has his impulse to sacrifice himself to save others so his tragic flaw is not as onorous.  It is still a tragic flaw and this objectiveky is the worst decision he has made.  He has never knowingly made a,decision that would risk others.  Giving AU Michael the Michael Sword put the world at risk.

When Sam used the BotD he knowingly put the world at risk. So yes they are comparable 

I am stunned they went with AU Michael. I thought it would be cage Michael because AU Michael... He is as bad as Lucifer if not worse.

I knew that this storyline was going to be Dean's heroic tragic fall and eventual redemption arc because they did that with Sam in season 8-11.  And they went very dark with Sam with a good redemption in season 11.

I have known for two seasons we were going to get an Apocalypse with Dean!Michael. I never thought they would have him say yes to AU Michael.  It will be dark. I will just have to focus on the fact that there will be a redemption arc eventially and Dean will fight like hell from within.

Make no mistake this will be framed as a mistake. Castiel's face tells us this.  The long shot of Dean's fall tells us this. This was his tragic fall.  An epic instance of bad judgement and people will die because of it.

I am stunned.

People may die because of it, but how many more would have died with souped-up Lucifer on the loose? I still don't understand how anything else could have possibly been done.

[Castiels Cat]

9 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Classy.

You're choosing to see your own theory about Michael and Dean. What I'm seeing has been built up this season : Castiel showing Sam and Dean how to do what needs to be done as the mission is always what matters. If it includes turning a prophet into a vegetable, or leaving a brother behind after he's been killed, so be it.

Dean's mission was to stop Lucifer at all costs. There was no time to argue, so he took Castiel's advice and did what he had to do.

Wait until next season.  Castiel's face tells the story.   The people who die next year as the result tell the story.  And AU Michael will be powerful because he has his sword.

[Myrelle]

5 hours ago, bethy said:

Best part of the episode was Dean calmly shooting Jack in the back after he'd sat on the kid's bed and calmed his nightmare. "You shot me!" "You were acting like a psycho."

I loved that, too.

5 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I do like that they let Dean tell Michael he was his sword, and not just his vessel.

And this. And I liked that Dean was doing the "driving" when he killed Lucifer.

I also loved Cas' face at the end. He looked like he'd just lost his best friend. ;-)

[BoxManLocke]

4 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Wait until next season.  Castiel's face tells the story.   The people who die next year as the result tell the story.  And AU Michael will be powerful because he has his sword.

Yes, Michael is powerful, and yes, people will die.

 

I also know Michael will be stopped at some point.  Whatever happens until that won't be anywhere as terrible as Lucifer enslaving half the human race and killing the other half.

 

So Dean made the right choice.

Edited May 18, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[BabySpinach]

Just now, BoxManLocke said:

Yes, Michael is powerful, and yes, people will die.

 

I also know Michael will be stopped at some point.  Whatever happens until that won't be anywhere as terrible as Lucifer enslaving half the human racing and killing the other half.

 

So Dean made the right choice.

THANK YOU. It also wasn't Dean's fault that Michael and Lucifer invaded. He did the best with what he had.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I am stunned.

Why are you stunned? You've been proclaiming this would happen for as long as you've been posting here. 

This is isn't tragic. Dean didn't make that decision without thinking it through.  He made a logical choice given the givens. 

5 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Wait until next season.  Castiel's face tells the story.   The people who die next year as the result tell the story.  And AU Michael will be powerful because he has his sword.

Castiel was crying because Dean is now possessed. His Dean. He's heartbroken. That's all.

I legit don't even think AU Michael wants to rule this planet.  IMO, I think he's rethinking his whole scheme.  But that's just me.

[Castiels Cat]

Just now, BabySpinach said:

People may die because of it, but how many more would have died with souped-up Lucifer on the loose? I still don't understand how anything else could have possibly been done.

Yes it was a bad situation but Dean did not think ...

he went into save Sammy mode. He did not listen to Cas. It is what he does. Usually he either dies not know the consequences or he thinks only he will suffer them.  This time was different 

I have thick Dean goggles. I probably should have seen this coming because I knew rhey were setting him up for a tragic fall. I did not, could not believe he would go there l. I thought he would slit his wrists and ask Billie to take him to the cage before he would give himself tons homicidal maniac.

I never thought he would hold a girl at gunpoint either. He has been on edge this season... family is his trigger.  Loss of family.

They have done the story very well. 

I am gobsmacked.  I did not want it to be  AU Michael. 

Well there will be a redemption arc and then he won't kill himself any more.  

And hopefully this will generate good mytharc 

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Why are you stunned? You've been proclaiming this would happen for as long as you've been posting here. 

This is isn't tragic. Dean didn't make that decision without thinking it through.  He made a logical choice given the givens. 

Castiel was crying because Dean is now possessed. His Dean. He's heartbroken. That's all.

I legit don't even think AU Michael wants to rule this planet.  IMO, I think he's rethinking his whole scheme.  But that's just me.

Not AU Michael.   AU Micharl is bad.

Maybe he is rethinking... I thinknhecwill be the big bad.

I think this is intended to be Dean's tragic fall so ....   

Dean will regret it and it will lead to growth and he won't impulsively sacrifice himself anymore.

Cas doesn't know Dean is lost forever.  Cas knows Dean made a tragic mistake. We know rhis because he tried to stop him.  

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

he went into save Sammy mode. He did not listen to Cas. It is what he does. Usually he either dies not know the consequences or he thinks only he will suffer them.  This time was different 

Cas listened to DEAN this time.  Dean had to make a fast decision. Lucifer was going to destroy Sam, Jack and the planet. Michael said he would. If you think Dean didn't hear ALL of that when he made his choice, then respectfully you missed Jensen's acting in that scene. 

His rationale to Cas was about Sam AND Jack, who is Castiel's not!son.  Cas understood what Dean was going to do and the risk it posed. And he respected Dean enough to not argue the point. 

[Castiels Cat]

33 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

And what exactly would have been the alternative? Leaving the two vicious archangels in their world? Letting Lucifer do what he pleased after having taken Jack's grace and become the most powerful creature on earth? What else could they have possibly done to address that immediate impending nightmare scenario?

They could have restrained AU Michael using the cuffs in the Bunker. He was already weakened...

And bled his grace out completely. One down...

Then they could have discussed options. 

There is the other Michael who maybe is a better option.   They could juice him up with double Michael grace and go after Lucifer and fix the lance while they arenat it. Use it to kill AU Michael and out the door to find Lucifer.  All Dean had to do was inject himself and talk to Billie. She needs the world to go round.  Or he could just summon het. No need to cook TexMex.

The rush was because of Sam.

Dean did not think at all because Sammy was at risk. He says it in text. Dean's concern is Sam.  Dean is desperate because of Sam. Dean needs to go now because of Sam.

The mirror for this is "Advanced Thanotology" Racing to inject the poison without thinking.  The definition of reckless.  He did not care about any other consequences. Just save Sam. End Lucifer forever for Sam. For Jack. For Family.

It is his tragic flaw. He willingly sacrifices himself. This time he sacrificed the world. It breaks my heart. I am crying with Castiel. I keep seeing Dean falling in slow mo... broken.

[BoxManLocke]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I legit don't even think AU Michael wants to rule this planet.  IMO, I think he's rethinking his whole scheme.  But that's just me.

I agree. If they want this thing to last it's going to have to be more subtle than that.

I think he'll take interest in heaven's current predicament and maybe even try to help the angels. That could create an interesting dilemma for the ones who are trying to help Dean.

Edited May 18, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Aeryn13]

Yes, it would make sense if he were to check out his new digs and be like: WTF, 8 angels?

And the angels would welcome him out of sheer desperation. 

[BabySpinach]

6 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

I agree. If they want this thing to last it's going to have to be more subtle than that.

I think he'll take interest in heaven's current predicament and maybe even try to help the angels. That could create an interesting dilemma for the ones who are trying to help Dean.

Yeah, that'd be a compelling moral dilemma. Let Dean continue to be possessed, or potentially allow hundreds of billions of ghosts to fall back to earth? 

Also, the complete absence of Billie is a giant WTF for me. Why the hell did she say "see you soon" merely four episodes ago, then have nothing to do with the finale?

[companionenvy]

I thoroughly enjoyed it, though I agree it was slightly underwhelming as a wrap-up to this whole season, as so many threads were dropped with no payoff. Ketch's role so far hasn't really justified bringing him back with a redemption arc. Mary's relationship with the boys was still MIA. Heaven's angel problem went totally unaddressed. All of the refugees seem unperturbed about the fact that they -- as far as they knew -- had wound  up abandoning their world to Michael. And I think Dean's decision to accept Michael could have had more build up. That being said...

Jack/AC was fantastic. I've liked the character until now, but this episode invested him with greater depth. I think they've got down the mix of naivety and experience just right, with corresponding feelings -- Jack is still very young, but he's also spent some time as a warrior in the AU, and has suffered and lost. He's trying to use his power well, and he's in the main a force for good, but he also has more power than anyone, let alone a virtual toddler, should have, and he doesn't always get it right or make the best decisions -- and his limited capacity for nuance means he has real trouble coping with that.

I join those who won't believe Luci's really dead until...well, honestly, maybe ever, given how much of a delay there was before the pointless resurrection of Gabriel, but as satisfying as it was to see him killed, it was even more satisfying that the show abandoned any notion that he was redeemable. 

Dean with wings. I mean, DEAN WITH WINGS. Actually, everything having to do with Dean, pretty much. Casually shooting Jack was a particular highlight. 

I do wish Cas had had more to do, but that's an old complaint at this point. Much as I liked Jack's relationship with the Winchesters, at the very least, they could have remembered that Cas was supposed to be Jack's "father." I'm also OK with Sam being in support for this episode, but I hope he has a big, positive role in the next arc, because this was very much Dean's show. 

I really, really don't see this as a terrible mistake for Dean. Don't get me wrong, I think it is likely to have some pretty awful consequences, but it was kind of a frying pan/fire situation. If Michael weren't in control, Lucifer would have been. I agree that Dean wouldn't have gotten to "use your sword" so quickly if Sam's life hadn't been on the line, but I also think he had enough of an immediate grasp of what nephilim-powered, gloves-off Lucifer would mean for the world that this wasn't a case of one of the brothers selling out humanity for the sake of the other. It isn't, IMO, at all comparable to the BOtD scenario, where - as Chuck himself said -- Dean going bad, while personally tragic, was not something that was likely to endanger tons of people, whereas using the Book did. If anything, I'd say the closer comparison in terms of how much Dean's actions risked the world is Sam saying "yes" to Lucifer all those years ago, which was even more of a Hail Mary pass, but was worth the risk given how bad the situation was. Though I wish we'd seen it acknowledged on screen, I can't imagine that Dean didn't realize that Michael not keeping his word was a legitimate possibility - but Sam not being able to overpower Lucifer for long enough to jump into the pit was also a legitimate possibility. Again, worth the risk.

2 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

They must not teach literature anymore.

It happens that I do teach literature. But people can have different opinions/interpretations of the same events.

Edited May 18, 2018 by companionenvy

[S Cook Productions]

3 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

The beginning felt Blue Velvet before finding the ear ... everything is perfect until there is murder.It should have been truncated though. We needed a bit more time spent on Dean!Michael which felt rushed and looked like I shot, directed and edited it with no training. No wait... I could do better because I watch movies and took enoufhbfilm studies classes to understand about montage and action sequences. Maybe a monkey did that. I was stunned.

The only thing I can think of is that Pellegrino cannot do the action at all and they had nothing. We know Jensen excels. It is inexplicable. Such an important moment and they fart... bigly.

I loved everything Jack too.  I thought his anger would prevent him from dealing with AU Michael. I love that his love allowed him to do it. He was protecting family. He was channeling Dean. He became a Winchester. 

I doubt it was because of Pelligrino. All the boys have said on numerous occasions that they’re always nervous when they have fight scenes with Pelligrino. Apparently he’s a trained fighter/boxer. I’ve heard it personally from the boys at conventions. 

[Aeryn13]

Rewatched some stuff and back at the bunker Lucifer does say he wanted to be new Gods and remake things in his image with Jack but since Jack wasn`t playing ball, he just needed his power. So despite Dean not hearing what Lucifer said in the church later, he did hear his overall goals there.

This is the only reason I`m okay with things. They made Lucifer the current, pressing threat. So while saying yes to AU!Michael was a bad risk, he was the only option at this point. I still would have wished for the fight to be somewhat more balanced, though.

And of course "save Sammy" was a big impetus. But I feared something like AU!Michael about to kill Sam and Dean saying "yes" to him just for that. Wanting to take out Lucifer serves a valid purpose. Michael was pretty genuine in saying "well, this dude can do everything now and you thought, I was bad". Which, yeah, he is bad, terribly bad but at the moment priority numero dos on the badness scale. 

That it will lead to bad consequences is a given. I dare not to hope they let the Lucifer death stick, though. Sigh. Nothing against Pellegrino but the character needs to stay gone.

Loved Dean!Michael`s entrance, that was hot.       

[flyinghigh]

I cannot believe that after thirteen years and 250+ episodes, I am still so excited and looking forward to MichaelDean!!!!

Wow!! Amazing!! 

MichaelDean at last!!!

I know everyone - just everyone - had predicted that Dean will become Michael. Yet, poor me, still hoped, and prayed that the new character that Jensen and others have spoken of will be a surprise. But then that's me. Still hopeful that writers can come up with something new. Though I must admit everything on screen was pointing towards MichaelDean. That was before the I watched the episode.

But the scene where Dean talks of being Michael's true sword, and that he has no option - seemed just the right time for Dean to take Michael.

Situation aside, that is quintessential Dean - he will do anything to save Sam and the world - come what may. Tackle the situation on hand. Rest can be figured out later.

And here, I do agree, he had no choice. Lucifer was so powerful specially with Jack's grace - Dean did the Dean thing.

Most importantly :

I am still over the moon with the beautiful scenes we got of MichaelDean - spreading his wings in full splendour, those few seconds when Michael repossesses Dean after Lucifer is dead - Jensen was stunning, and MichaelDean casually walking in that amazing outfit in the last scene. (Please omit the freeze screen)

 

Did I mention I am so looking forward to MICHAELDEAN? 

Edited May 18, 2018 by flyinghigh

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Situation aside, that is quintessential Dean - he will do anything to save Sam and the world - come what may. Tackle the situation on hand. Rest can be figured out later.

And the immediate threat has been neutralized, at least for the time being. Hopefully forever. 

Ì also think Cas didn`t offer more than a verbal protest because he said "yes" to Lucifer - and let him out of the cage - on Lucy`s word that he could take on God`s sister. Which, Lucifer couldn`t back up later. And the brothers were nice enough about it and told Cas that he did what he thought was right. 

In all fairness, the same should go for Dean now. 

Not to mention Mary got a glowing endorsement for her own demon deal earlier in the Season. 

Now I do hope the AU-folk go back and frankly take Mary with them. That "call Sam" line just rankled here. "Call one of my sons" or "call Sam and/or Dean" would have completely made sense here. And don`t pretend she cares about Dean or his fate.

[gonzosgirrl]

Here's what I will wonder about over the summer as the reality of Michael!Dean sets in.

When they (writers/fans) talk about about how Dean chose "Sam (and Jack) over the world" will they remember that Sam did the same thing when he chose to use the BOTD to remove the Mark? And how far south that went? And how Dean never once put the blame for Amara solely on Sam's shoulders?

When they talk about how sad Cas is and how Dean didn't listen to him, will they remember that Cas made exactly the same choice in saying yes to Lucifer because he said he could beat Amara? And ended up turning him loose on the world again? And will they remember what Dean said to him when it was all said and done? He reassured him that he'd done the right thing in the moment and called him brother.

Because Dean didn't do this alone. In fact, if they'd listened to him in AU!World, none of it would have happened. And he acted to take out the threat that was in front of them - namely, Lucifer. He took a losing bet as far as trusting Michael to honor his word, but he knew that going in. And unlike letting Lucifer out to kill Amara, taking Michael in to kill Lucifer actually worked. That's what I'm going to think about over the summer, and hope against hope the writers remember it too, and treat Dean accordingly.

[Bobcatkitten]

I did a rewatch this morning and was pleasantly surprised that I really enjoyed this episode. 

First - Dean. He killed it in so many ways - talking to Jack, his retirement dream, the holy oil with Michael, killing Lucifer (HALLELUJAH) and of course his transformation into Michael. Loved that they remembered the sword cannon and I think it made sense for him to say yes. He wants to save Sam and Jack but also Michael just told him that supercharged Lucifer could take over the world. All that played into the decision I think.

The beginning of the fight between Dean and Lucifer was awesome. I liked the wire work to show them getting thrown. But the fight in the air was less underwhelming. 

I liked that they thinned out the cast by having Ketch, Charlie and Rowena go off. Would have been too much. Could have done with one less Lucifer/Jack scene but the bunker scene where Jack confronts Lucifer about being human and then Lucifer stole his grace was well done. I gasped. 

I feel for Cas fans in this episode because he literally did nothing. He's an angel who can't even take a punch anymore without laying on the floor forever. Just window dressing really. Oh yeah, he killed one werewolf. With an angel blade. Didn't know that would kill a werewolf haha. 

Overall a very satisfying end and I am stoked to see Jensen play Michael next season. 

How can I forget - that was one of the best Carry On clips ever - especially Rowena's setup to the music. 

[Bobcatkitten]

5 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

It was the definition of reckless. He handed AU Michael the Michael Sword.  

This was Dean's tragic fall and the showed him close up falling to emphasize  that Dean Winchester has fallen.

There will be blood because of AU Michael. 

Then Dean will get a redemption arc.

Just call me Cassandra.

They must not teach literature anymore.

There was going to be blood regardless. 

Two evil archangels were in the world and hellbent on destroying it. Now it's only one and at least with the chance that Dean can fight off Michael internally. And meanwhile Jack can recharge and help the fight. 

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

There was going to be blood regardless. 

Two evil archangels were in the world and hellbent on destroying it. Now it's only one and at least with the chance that Dean can fight off Michael internally. And meanwhile Jack can recharge and help the fight. 

So much this. Does anyone think that either Michael or Lucifer were just going to go away? Jack injured Michael but he wasn't dead or powerless regardless of what he said about his meat suit. And Dean didn't hear what Lucifer said to Sam and Jack in the church, but he, and everyone else knew exactly what was happening. People were going to die. Dean mitigated at least some of that by taking out one of the two remaining archangels. And he took out the one who has been fucking with their lives since they were born. How is he not the hero of this story?

Edited May 18, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Aeryn13]

Quote

And Dean didn't hear what Lucifer said to Sam and Jack in the church

It wasn`t that different than what Lucifer said in the bunker - and Dean did hear that. And Michael might be evil himself but he had a valid point about super-charged Lucifer. It was also clear that while he wouldn`t honor the "one time thing" deal, he would honor it in as much as showing up to the fight and trying to take on Lucifer. 

Do I wish the fight had worked better and been more even? Hell yes. It could have been more epic and made more use of "the Michael sword". Do I also wish it would have been less convoluted with the "save Sammy"? Absolutely. 

And of course it will have consequences. But like you said, Sam made a bad judgment call with the mark removal spell and not even attempting to call off the spell once Death exposited on the consequences. And Cas made a bad judgment call when saying yes to Lucifer. What Dean did here was at the very least not worse than either of that.  

[Whodunnit]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

WTF, 8 angels?

And they forgot to pay the electrical bill too.

The only weapons I know about that can kill an archangel are a god touched weapon, an archangel sword, a 50,000 soul bomb, and an archangel. Dean was fresh out of any of those (except the arcangel) to try to take out supercharged Lucifer. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Whodunnit

[Ray Adverb]

Great episode.  I always love hearing the annual "Carry on My Wayward Son" montage.  Always gets me charged up.  I was briefly afraid that they would end the season on Lucifer's stealing of Jack's grace.  So I am glad that it ended with Lucifer finally dead.

 

Wasn't at all surprised that Michael went back on his deal with Dean.  No way he thought that would hold up.  Dean probably won't be possessed by Michael for the whole season though.  The British Men of Letters had that grenade that can force an angel out of a vessel, and Ketch is still around and may know how to build one.

 

So Donald Trump is president on this show too?  Just a year ago, President Nondescript was possessed by Lucifer when they sired Jack.  So it's like they threw continuity out the window for the sake of making a lame quasi-political joke.

Edited May 18, 2018 by RayAdverb

[MysteryGuest]

I have zero issues with Dean's decision.  First off, this is how they always operate.  We fix this one thing, and then we'll find a way to deal with the consequences.  This was a no-brainer.  Not only were Sam and Jack in immediate danger, but a now powered-up Lucifer was on the loose.  They've been dealing with Lucifer for years, so there was no mystery about just how bad things could get.  AU Michael and his true motivations were still a bit unknown, but they know all too well what Lucifer's capable of.  Considering the fact that they're always dealing with world-ending situations, they don't exactly have the luxury of discussing and exploring all of their options before acting.  

I'm not even going to entertain the possibility that Lucifer will be back.  He's really most sincerely dead, and that's all there is to it.  You really could see it coming, actually.  The last part of the season was pretty Lucifer heavy, so you could tell it was leading to something big.  He will not be back...nope...no way, no how.  He got his glorious moment of pure evil, and now he's gone.  Please let it be so!!!

Edited May 18, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[takalotti]

9 minutes ago, RayAdverb said:

So Donald Trump is president on this show too?  Just a year ago, President Nondescript was possessed by Lucifer when they sired Jack.  So it's like they threw continuity out the window for the sake of making a lame quasi-political joke.

They already threw out this continuity in The Bad Place when Kaia made a crack about a drug dealer just being a businessman trying to make his way in Trump's America. I actually would have been more annoyed if they flipped back to the other presidency. Ideally they’d just stop referencing such things at all so continuity wasn’t even an issue.

[S Cook Productions]

29 minutes ago, RayAdverb said:

Great episode.  I always love hearing the annual "Carry on My Wayward Son" montage.  Always gets me charged up.  I was briefly afraid that they would end the season on Lucifer's stealing of Jack's grace.  So I am glad that it ended with Lucifer finally dead.

 

Wasn't at all surprised that Michael went back on his deal with Dean.  No way he thought that would hold up.  Dean probably won't be possessed by Michael for the whole season though.  The British Men of Letters had that grenade that can force an angel out of a vessel, and Ketch is still around and may know how to build one.

 

So Donald Trump is president on this show too?  Just a year ago, President Nondescript was possessed by Lucifer when they sired Jack.  So it's like they threw continuity out the window for the sake of making a lame quasi-political joke.

So much this! It irks me every time they did it. Kaia mentioned Trump in her ep, Lucifer did last week in Exodus, and now this. Are we The only ones that remember President Jefferson Rooney who only a year ago was Jack’s Not!dad??

[BabySpinach]

I'd also like to mention that it was a really neat idea for it to be Dean with archangel powers killing Lucifer rather than straight-up Michael. Given our current crop of writers, I am pleasantly surprised that they granted Dean this small bit of agency and awesomeness, as well as at least an attempt on his part to get Michael to heel. And hey, he did keep to that part of the bargain and let Dean drive, which wouldn't have been easy for him given the way he ran AUWorld and refused to use his own grace for the portal spell. Handing over power never seemed to be his thing until now.

[ahrtee]

5 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

Also, the complete absence of Billie is a giant WTF for me. Why the hell did she say "see you soon" merely four episodes ago, then have nothing to do with the finale?

Well, they did have the Alpha Vamp say "see you next season" back in season 7, and he didn't show up again till the end of season 12.  

I think it could have been just a warning that she knows his recklessness and will be expecting him soon, not that she's going to be visiting him.  

[S Cook Productions]

2 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I did a rewatch this morning and was pleasantly surprised that I really enjoyed this episode. 

First - Dean. He killed it in so many ways - talking to Jack, his retirement dream, the holy oil with Michael, killing Lucifer (HALLELUJAH) and of course his transformation into Michael. Loved that they remembered the sword cannon and I think it made sense for him to say yes. He wants to save Sam and Jack but also Michael just told him that supercharged Lucifer could take over the world. All that played into the decision I think.

The beginning of the fight between Dean and Lucifer was awesome. I liked the wire work to show them getting thrown. But the fight in the air was less underwhelming. 

I liked that they thinned out the cast by having Ketch, Charlie and Rowena go off. Would have been too much. Could have done with one less Lucifer/Jack scene but the bunker scene where Jack confronts Lucifer about being human and then Lucifer stole his grace was well done. I gasped. 

I feel for Cas fans in this episode because he literally did nothing. He's an angel who can't even take a punch anymore without laying on the floor forever. Just window dressing really. Oh yeah, he killed one werewolf. With an angel blade. Didn't know that would kill a werewolf haha. 

Overall a very satisfying end and I am stoked to see Jensen play Michael next season. 

How can I forget - that was one of the best Carry On clips ever - especially Rowena's setup to the music. 

As a major Cas fan, I can say that I don’t feel slighted at all by this episode (although I always want more for Cas to do lol). Although, I will agree about the taking a punch and laying on the floor for 15 mins lol, as I mentioned earlier. However, I liked that Team Free Will 2.0 really worked well together as a team. Cas was bad ass with that werewolf, he was willing to take on Michael twice (Sam stopped him the first time), Dean included him in his perfect beach retirement scenario, I liked his dad moments with Jack at the gas station, and I loved his solo reaction shot at the end! Now, if I didn’t get that I would have been disappointed. The ep was almost over and I was worried that we weren’t going to see him again, and pretty much the last that we saw of him was his “I’ll just lay here on the floor for an entire scene while all of you chat and fight and reveal truths etc.” So when we got that last Cas scene, I thought it was fitting and it satisfied me. However, I always seem to be a glass half full type of person with this show more often than not. I tend to mostly enjoy the episodes...especially the ones Cas are in. I have a good feeling that he will be in a lot next year, probably a lot of Cas/Sam scenes- maybe Jack and Mary too and that’s fine with me. He got good placement on the poster. 

[Binns]

7 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

It depends if he has any left I think. Metatron stole all of Cas grace so he could not regenerate

I thought Lucifer took everything because at that moment he was done with the dad thing and all  he wanted all along was the power. He conceived him for the power. He seduced him to use his power.  And when that failed he took it.

Jack’s neck was still glowing when he closed the wound...made me think there was some left behind. 

[MysteryGuest]

The entire premise of Lucifer possessing the president was stupid.  Up until then, they had made frequent Obama references, and then boom...we have this new president?  He could have possessed absolutely anyone else, so that was just dumb.  They've always made pop culture references on the show, so there's no way they're going to not comment on Trump.  

I just watched the episode again, and I liked it.  My biggest issue was the flying fight...that looked just as bad the second time around.  But Lucifer's death was even more satisfying this time, so that made up for the hokey fight scene.  

[Binns]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Seriously. That legit fucking surprised me in a good way. I was all YASSSSSSSSSS.  Coming from Dean it was just the best way to do it. Dean never forgot he was the Michael Sword even if the show tried. And that was probably THE MOST satisfying moment. Even if Dean didn't let Michael possess him, I would have been okay with Dean just being able to say it.

Gods, I'm really surprisingly not annoyed by this episode. I mean I don't know what show I was watching with AU Bobby and Mary walking through the lush rainforests of Lebanon, Kansas and that they apparently aren't all that in a hurry to get by to the AW to save the rest of the planet, but hey you know...that doesn't matter....

I fucking LOVED seeing Michael!Dean with wings.  That was just stupidly satisfying.

Castiel crying is distressing. But he'll save Dean. He will.

I was also happy they didn’t spoil it in the “previously” by showing us stuff from Zachariah (did it in the episode instead). Not that any of us were surprised, but more casual watchers might have been. 

[Binns]

7 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Why are you stunned? You've been proclaiming this would happen for as long as you've been posting here. 

This is isn't tragic. Dean didn't make that decision without thinking it through.  He made a logical choice given the givens. 

Castiel was crying because Dean is now possessed. His Dean. He's heartbroken. That's all.

I legit don't even think AU Michael wants to rule this planet.  IMO, I think he's rethinking his whole scheme.  But that's just me.

I agree with your last point. He alluded to this (“I’ve made mistakes”) and seemed a little different to me. I think he’s still badass and wants to rule but maybe isn’t a lost cause.