Roswell, New Mexico: In the Media

[Chick2Chic]

 

[phoenics]

This is the best tea I have EVER had.

[ellieart]

I'm sitting over here giddily reading all this stuff.  This is all so much more interesting than the actual show.

[phoenics]

4 minutes ago, ellieart said:

I'm sitting over here giddily reading all this stuff.  This is all so much more interesting than the actual show.

It is!!  And that writer from the show says there are folks lined up to drag her.  I suspect this weekend is gonna be WILD.

[Chick2Chic]

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

It is!!  And that writer from the show says there are folks lined up to drag her.  I suspect this weekend is gonna be WILD.

I am ready and waiting for the dragging. 😊 This has been bringing me joy, esp all the deets exposing Carina's intentional racism and her obsession with certain actors + Malex. We were right about her and what she was doing. 

@phoenics Since I know you'll get this reference,  the tea tonight is like Krypton's cancellation confirming a Lyta / Seg HEA thus leaving Nyssa out in the cold all over again. That kind of joy.

 

Also, looking for tea on Carina "resigning," I came across this interview and does she do this for Liz? Is she out giving interviews re: the whole premise about undocumented immigrants that supposedly the show is about?

 

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

I am ready and waiting for the dragging. 😊 This has been bringing me joy, esp all the deets exposing Carina's intentional racism and her obsession with certain actors + Malex. We were right about her and what she was doing. 

@phoenics Since I know you'll get this reference,  the tea tonight is like Krypton's cancellation confirming a Lyta / Seg HEA thus leaving Nyssa out in the cold all over again. That kind of joy.

 

Hahahahha!!! I totally get the reference because I was SO GLAD the show ended there with the HEA for Lyta/Seg.  Ha!!

And yep - we were right about her.  Fans KNOW when stuff is shady - especially if we've lived it before.  

I was wondering what drove me back to this board this week to just vent about Maria's treatment.  Now I know... the universe wanted me to be there for this epic and wonderful moment of karma and sweet justice.

Also, looking for tea on Carina "resigning," I came across this interview and does she do this for Liz? Is she out giving interviews re: the whole premise about undocumented immigrants that supposedly the show is about?

Carina never promoted anything about Liz.  Max got some play, but never Liz.  Funny how in both versions, Isobel became an overbearing character that folks literally were sick to death of, lol.  Carina hitched her star to the gay couple on the show and then re-oriented the entire show around them, sidelining Max and Liz.  MAX AND LIZ!?  Who the hell thinks they are writing ROSWELL and sidelining the two characters whose love started the whole thing and reason for the alien chaos?

 

[Kymmi]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

Wow, I thought Carina was Marti Noxon Junior. Turns out she was even worse! I did think it was crazy that nobody at the WB seemed to be monitoring her Twitter.

Agree - I’ve never seen show runners act quite like that on Twitter. I thought I was involved with some messy shows, but whoa. 

[Avabelle]

Who is Kamran pasha? Was he a writer?

i genuinely think Carina thought hitching herself to tHe gay couple would make her untouchable. That way anyone disagreeing with her she could call out as homophobic/bigoted. Somewhere along the way though she seemed to get even more big headed and took it upon herself to be become the speaker of the LGBT community.

[paulvdb]

20 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Who is Kamran pasha? Was he a writer?

According to IMDB writer on episode Barely Breathing and co-executive producer on episode Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?

[Featherhat]

4 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

Wow, I thought Carina was Marti Noxon Junior. Turns out she was even worse! I did think it was crazy that nobody at the WB seemed to be monitoring her Twitter.

I guess maybe they thought they didn't need to. Usually showrunners don't have screaming tantrums on twitter.* If they get in to fights with fans over something it doesn't matter as much, but hurling accusations publicly at ITV like a fan was a no-no. 

Wow, Kamran Pasha is going for broke. Calling her out on absolutely everything under the sun including using their religion as a "get out of jail free" card and not caring at all the rest of the time. Outright saying she was a racist bully and didn't care about actual diversity as long as she could brag about it. Basically saying she openly oggled her male leads and made comments that everyone would agree was inappropriate if the genders were reversed.

Re-writing scripts herself isn't entirely unusual but does show huge control freak issues and guarantees only her favourites are actually going to get a POV as she isn't subtle about that. It also erases people's efforts to write the authentically diverse experience she brags about if it's all coming from her pen. Unless she thinks she's more authentic than anyone else. *eye roll*. 

Quote

i genuinely think Carina thought hitching herself to tHe gay couple would make her untouchable. That way anyone disagreeing with her she could call out as homophobic/bigoted. Somewhere along the way though she seemed to get even more big headed and took it upon herself to be become the speaker of the LGBT community.

Apart from *all* the other issues that is such a fandom perspective "no one can say anything against my ship because if you do, you're homophobic!" Except instead of being a BNF in a ship war, she's the showrunner. 

*The most insane one to me will always be Aaron Sorkin getting in to a fight with one of his own writers on TWOP, being cautioned by a mod and writing an episode about it. All pre SM.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Featherhat

[Avabelle]

15 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Wow, Kamran Pasha is going for broke. Calling her out on absolutely everything under the sun including using their religion as a "get out of jail free" card and not caring at all the rest of the time. Outright saying she was a racist bully and didn't care about actual diversity as long as she could brag about it. Basically saying she openly oggled her male leads and made comments that everyone would agree was inappropriate if the genders were reversed

I think it’s great she’s being called out but I also think he should be careful if he wants to further his career. Not because I think she has any clout but moreso because his responses seem emotional and personal. While I get where he’s coming from, other show runners could hinder him a liability.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Avabelle

[shapeshifter]

11 hours ago, phoenics said:

Going to a virtual paint and sip party now - be back later.

Cool! Message me more?

 

Congrats (I guess) on the change of show runner, although in these pandemic times, might that be the entire kiss of death to the show? 

[backhometome]

I wonder how Vlamis feels about Carina leaving. Lord knows she favored him heavily over the others. 

Interesting about Jeanine and Carina. 

No, shit she rewrote scripts. 

FYI; most Malex fans I have seen are thrilled at her leaving. I dont think she hitched her ride to them. To Vlamis, yes. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by backhometome

[Avabelle]

Ok so the cast have all commented now bar Nathan and Jeanine. Heather Hemmens who plays Maria the character at the Center of so much of the backlash doesn’t appear to share the same beef with Carina as the fans do on her behalf. Her message is pretty much I’ll follow you anywhere vibes.

So just the two show stars left to comment, if they do at all. Given Mackenzie called Jeanine out on her instagram I’d say she was hoping for some sort of acknowledgement. 
 

On another note, did Jeanine and Nathan date at the start of the show? Or were they just doing a lot of press together.

[Featherhat]

29 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

On another note, did Jeanine and Nathan date at the start of the show? Or were they just doing a lot of press together.

I have no idea if they dated for not, I have seen gossip that Carina and Nathan had a thing when he was on TO and that's where "messy problems with harassing the lead actor" are coming from but I have no idea how true that is. 

It's entirely possible that HH had a positive relationship and working experience with Carina. It's a pretty passionate statement for someone who is just being polite. It doesn't make Maria's storyline any less frustrating though.

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Congrats (I guess) on the change of show runner, although in these pandemic times, might that be the entire kiss of death to the show? 

I think it was on life support anyway and they'll see if changing things can revive it a bit or they'll kill it after S3. I guess they might decide to "unrenew" it but there's nothing to indicate that yet. 

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Featherhat said:

*The most insane one to me will always be Aaron Sorkin getting in to a fight with one of his own writers on TWOP, being cautioned by a mod and writing an episode about it. All pre SM.

Wait, what?! I need more details on this! PM me since it's not on topic in any way lol.

Does anyone have screenshots or a summary of the Kamran Pasha tweets? He locked his twitter.

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

13 hours ago, Featherhat said:

*The most insane one to me will always be Aaron Sorkin getting in to a fight with one of his own writers on TWOP, being cautioned by a mod and writing an episode about it. All pre SM.

Wait, what?! I need more details on this! PM me since it's not on topic in any way lol.

😲 
I want more on this too! 
Was it TWW? Or...? 
I'd be happy to copy this post over to the appropriate board and leave a link here.

ETA, thanks, @Featherhat and @peachmangosteen!

See more here: 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by shapeshifter

[Featherhat]

I put a link to a thorough run through of the drama in TWW thread in Other Dramas for anyone else interested. It does go to show that showrunners vs their own writers, the studio and fandom isn't something that happened with the advent of Twitter. Or is it just about shipping and fangirls. 

I haven't saved any of KP's tweets but it's probably for the best he locked his twitter down. It was clearly very personal for him and he was going for her viscerally on every possible angle saying "White women fake woke" the worst type of hypocrite by deliberately making her show about white boys and using POC to dance around them and say how amazing they are, saying she isn't actually a real Muslim just uses it for show as she has an Egyptian mother (even though "traditional Pakistani Islam" that he professes isn't the only way to practice/believe either), accusing her of deliberately driving out every single one of her minority writing staff with racist bullying, sexually harassing her actors, deliberately overriding Hispanic writers clarifying their culture, overriding writers trying to give Maria a storyline, making everyone live in fear of her both on set and in LA. Everything. If you were making up a vitriolic hit piece you couldn't get as much as this. 

Also a thought that along with accusing an international partner of homophobia/biphobia/bigotry and causing them to complain to WB, WB probably weren't thrilled that she "screamed" she was sick of straight white people fucking on TV at the same time, considering that's still the biggest market and she pissed them off publicly both ways. 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Featherhat

[phoenics]

6 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Heather Hemmens who plays Maria the character at the Center of so much of the backlash doesn’t appear to share the same beef with Carina as the fans do on her behalf.

Let me be clear - I'm not advocating on behalf of HH - I'm advocating on behalf of my own black womanness because I'm sick and tired of seeing this.

Also - black women typically have to play both sides of things just to keep a job.  HH probably never saw her character as being important to RNM - maybe she never read the books or saw the OG show so she doesn't realize how SHAFTED she was, or maybe she was mostly fine with that and just glad to have a job.

Either way - that's not the reason most BW and allies are angry about the treatment of Maria.

[phoenics]

3 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Also a thought that along with accusing an international partner of homophobia/biphobia/bigotry and causing them to complain to WB, WB probably weren't thrilled that she "screamed" she was sick of straight white people fucking on TV at the same time, considering that's still the biggest market and she pissed them off publicly both ways. 

This.  I really thought that comment was pretty bad.  I'm fairly militant myself but damn - that comment was such an emotionally unprofessional thing to say.  And stupid.  RNM has always struggled in the ratings - she should have been trying to build a bigger tent for everyone rather than whatever she was doing.

[Avabelle]

10 minutes ago, phoenics said:

Either way - that's not the reason most BW and allies are angry about the treatment of Maria.

And I don’t believe my post claimed it was. The post wasn’t directed at any specific fans. The Maria treatment has been documented in the media As well as by viewers of the show. I was merely observing that she didn’t Appear to share the same beef that a lot of fans have for how her character were portrayed on the show. Whatever her reasons I don’t know. She could be playing the game. She might not feel the same. Who knows. I was just commenting on her Passionate and supportive post to Carinas Instagram.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Avabelle

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

And I don’t believe my post claimed it was. The post wasn’t directed at any specific fans. 

I think it was directed at Maria fans, of which I am one.  I understood what you meant - I was simply clarifying why HH's position on her character is immaterial to what I find appropriate for black women portrayals, that's all.

On another note - I keep thinking back to Carina's ITV rant tweets and how she went off the word of some enraged Malex fans on twitter without double checking things herself, hence her not knowing the Max/J scene was also cut too.

Her "fave" fanbase unwittingly t'd up her downfall.

 

[Chick2Chic]

2 hours ago, phoenics said:

Let me be clear - I'm not advocating on behalf of HH - I'm advocating on behalf of my own black womanness because I'm sick and tired of seeing this.

Same. Heather has to play the game lest she end up blackballed like Nicole Beharie.

My feelings about Maria being marginalized comes twofold from actually being a fan of the character thus being pissed how she has been treated as unworthy as well as subjected to racism by the showrunner plus some in fandom that think it is ok to shit on Black character (esp in defense of a gay ship) and from being a Black woman in a fandom that again I was sitting through a show that demeaned & excluded its Black female character. It is insulting and I am tired of it.

[Chick2Chic]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

On another note - I keep thinking back to Carina's ITV rant tweets and how she went off the word of some enraged Malex fans on twitter without double checking things herself, hence her not knowing the Max/J scene was also cut too.

Carina was ok with and perpetuated misogynoir but how dare anyone cut her fave ship screwing! She really did approach things from a fangirl lens. SMH

[Avabelle]

I just still can’t get over that rant.

I’ve read it back a couple of times since it initially went out and she just sounds more and more moronic each time. The kiss of death for her career. I’ll be curious to see if any of her famous friends work with her after this. Julie Plec did a podcast before where she discussed being blacklisted for a few years early in her career due to inadvertently offending an executive. This is like that times ten.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Avabelle

[ellieart]

26 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

I just still can’t get over that rant.

I’ve read it back a couple of times since it initially went out and she just sounds more and more moronic each time. The kiss of death for her career. I’ll be curious to see if any of her famous friends work with her after this. Julie Plec did a podcast before where she discussed being blacklisted for a few years early in her career due to inadvertently offending an executive. This is like that times ten.

I can only hope

[Cristofle]

9 hours ago, Avabelle said:

On another note, did Jeanine and Nathan date at the start of the show? Or were they just doing a lot of press together.

Some Tumblr fans actually thought they were dating more recently - they've been together fairly regularly outside of any sort of press. But you never know with those things, they could just be friends. 

I remember seeing Carina's rant and it took a minute for me to hear that the Max and Jenna scene HAD been edited as well and just...wow. She has no sense of professionalism. Like, I am not remotely in the public sphere but I still have a hard and fast rule that I keep any issues at work off of social media - Carina's out there acting like a tween. If she was also getting HR involved due to her treatment of Jeanine, no wonder they cut her loose. 

Re: Maria, as a longtime fan of the Roswell world (like, literally more than twenty years at this point), to see how the character of Maria has been reduced and marginalized in so many different ways, it's basically ridiculous to suggest that no part of it is personal, no part of it is based on so severely sidelining the one character deliberately racebent as a black woman. And I was interested in the Michael and Alex twist in the pilot, but that's when my dumb ass had no idea how badly and severely Maria was going to get cast aside. 

[Avabelle]

18 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

I remember seeing Carina's rant and it took a minute for me to hear that the Max and Jenna scene HAD been edited as well and just...wow.

Just so I understand fully - she stated that they had only removed the male love scene but the straight love scene yet it turned out both scenes had actually been cut due to it being pre watershed in the UK.

Like... face palm. 

 

 

[Cristofle]

7 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Just so I understand fully - she stated that they had only removed the male love scene but the straight love scene yet it turned out both scenes had actually been cut due to it being pre watershed in the UK.

Like... face palm. 

 

 

Yep. And she went ON about it, about how Michael and Alex were about love but Max and Cam were just ****ing. She literally went on an entire tirade based on completely false information. Incidentally, the same episode apparently cut some fairly mild forms of violence? And later episodes also cut more severe violence. All things Carina would have known if she'd spent thirty seconds verifying her facts instead of flipping out based on random Twitter postings. 

[ellieart]

6 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Yep. And she went ON about it, about how Michael and Alex were about love but Max and Cam were just ****ing. She literally went on an entire tirade based on completely false information. Incidentally, the same episode apparently cut some fairly mild forms of violence? And later episodes also cut more severe violence. All things Carina would have known if she'd spent thirty seconds verifying her facts instead of flipping out based on random Twitter postings. 

She should have consulted her "experts" on what ITV's standards and practices were.  It probably wouldn't have saved her job, but maybe would have kept her from looking like an immature child.

[Featherhat]

12 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

Yep. And she went ON about it, about how Michael and Alex were about love but Max and Cam were just ****ing. She literally went on an entire tirade based on completely false information. Incidentally, the same episode apparently cut some fairly mild forms of violence? And later episodes also cut more severe violence. All things Carina would have known if she'd spent thirty seconds verifying her facts instead of flipping out based on random Twitter postings. 

If she'd actually checked with someone from ITV or WB they could have explained what was going on. Watershed regulations have been cutting US imports that aired before 9pm for decades. There were episodes of Buffy and the OG Roswell that were hacked to pieces and they were (almost) all straight white people scenes. Then she could have posted something about the scene being important for the characters arc or whatever and encouraged fans to watch the uncut episodes on the ITV Hub/buy on Amazon/buy the DVD etc to get the full experience. Thus potentially making the show more money in a productive way instead of ranting like she's a fan playing the worst of fandom Chinese whispers that someone did something against her ship. She was the showrunner for goodness sake! Same with her "straight white fucking" comment, There are much more professional ways to get the same valid point across and not insult her actors filming those scenes and her potential/viewers who do enjoy that who might be put off watching her show. 

I can see how that would be the final straw. If just a fraction of what KP said is true then it has been coming on for a while. 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by Featherhat

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

I just still can’t get over that rant.

I’ve read it back a couple of times since it initially went out and she just sounds more and more moronic each time. The kiss of death for her career. I’ll be curious to see if any of her famous friends work with her after this. Julie Plec did a podcast before where she discussed being blacklisted for a few years early in her career due to inadvertently offending an executive. This is like that times ten.

How much better off we would all have been had Julie stayed blacklisted - I'm still so upset with her for her treatment of Bonnie Bennett, but that's old news.  I'm sad I was right about Carina.  Before the show premiered I worried that Carina's connection to Julie meant she was a white feminist too and would screw Maria.  I'm tired of being right about this kind of stuff though.

[Avabelle]

I knew of Carina from the zap2it days when she would write reviews of the show and ended up friends with the cast. She was entitled then as she is now. So condescending to all the TVD fans for being passionate when she was actually one of the biggest stans going. Her name dropping got worse as the years went on and her entitlement grew times ten. 

She was too inexperienced for the job anyway. She had worked on what, one tv show prior to this? Shouldn’t a showrunner have been around the block a bit and worked themselves up so that they have the experience and knowledge of what it takes.

It just sounds like such a bad management decision. She made every rookie error going in terms of becoming too close with the cast, insisting her voice to be the only one heard, not being able to delegate or multi task etc etc. 

I guess it’s a lesson for WB too as i imagine when ITV made them aware of the crazed fan who was hounding them on Twitter it was pretty mortifying explaining that this was the woman heading up the show. 

[phoenics]

8 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

If she'd actually checked with someone from ITV or WB they could have explained what was going on. Then she could have posted something about the scene being important for the characters arc or whatever and encouraged fans to watch the uncut episodes on the ITV Hub/buy on Amazon/buy the DVD etc to get the full experience. Thus potentially making the show more money in a productive way instead of ranting like she's a fan playing the worst of fandom Chinese whispers that someone did something against her ship. She was the showrunner for goodness sake! Same with her "straight white fucking" comment, There are much more professional ways to get the same point across and not insult her actors filming those scenes and her potential viewers who do enjoy that. 

I can see how that would be the final straw. If just a fraction of what KP said is true then it has been coming on for a while. 

 

Yes to all of this.  She was just so far beyond unprofessional that it boggles the mind.  Since I started my last role at a streaming company ya'll have all heard of, I've learned about how important these distributors are overseas since we're still expanding.  There is huge money there - way more than what the show makes in ratings on tv.  In fact, the CW makes more money from streaming and from international distribution (and then streaming there) than it does from viewers in the US who watch on TV.  That's how CW stays up and running and how shows with such low viewership overall in tv ratings stay on the air.  The CW has a ton of younger viewers in general who have cut the cord so they stream everything.  Plus, the CW isn't even available in all markets in the US.  Some markets used to have the CW years ago, but don't now.  Those foreign distributors literally keep the CW open.

She totally screwed the pooch.

One of that writer's tweets mentioned there was disagreement about the direction for S3 too and Carina mentioned it herself.  It could be that she's just covering her arse - but is it possible that TPTB wanted to come in and change direction as well?  Or at least shift a bit?  And she pushed back?  You know the suits at CW and WB were looking at the ratings and fretting over it - her tweet was probably the last straw.

[phoenics]

2 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

I knew of Carina from the zap2it days when she would write reviews of the show and ended up friends with the cast. She was entitled then as she is now. So condescending to all the TVD fans for being passionate when she was actually one of the biggest stans going. Her name dropping got worse as the years went on and her entitlement grew times ten. 

She was too inexperienced for the job anyway. She had worked on what, one tv show prior to this? Shouldn’t a showrunner have been around the block a bit and worked themselves up so that they have the experience and knowledge of what it takes.

It just sounds like such a bad management decision. She made every rookie error going in terms of becoming too close with the cast, insisting her voice to be the only one heard, not being able to delegate or multi task etc etc. 

 

Wow - she is serioulsy privileged to have been able to rise up like that.  Black and brown writers never get that kind of chance.

Quote

I guess it’s a lesson for WB too as i imagine when ITV made them aware of the crazed fan who was hounding them on Twitter it was pretty mortifying explaining that this was the woman heading up the show. 

LMAO - this made me laugh - what a conversation that must have been.

[Avabelle]

6 minutes ago, phoenics said:

12 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

 

Wow - she is serioulsy privileged to have been able to rise up like that.  Black and brown writers never get that kind of chance.

I would think it’s a rarity but I guess Hollywood is full of bias and favouritism. I feel like the bigger networks would be smarter about it. Bill Lawrence spike on the Scrubs podcast about how to be a successful showrunner you need to pick the areas you want to focus on and delegate out the rest. If you don’t you’ll just piss everyone off because you’re trying to do everything but don’t do it well. This proves his point. 

[Artsda]

2 hours ago, Featherhat said:

If she'd actually checked with someone from ITV or WB they could have explained what was going on. Watershed regulations have been cutting US imports that aired before 9pm for decades.

That would have required her to be a professional and understand her job. She's a fangirl who got this far being a fangirl on twiiter.  

[phoenics]

This article really sums up WHY Carina messed up so badly by bashing ITV (major international broadcaster and content provider):  https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillbarr/2016/01/11/the-cw-arrow-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-jane-the-virgin-supernatural/#2c223aa84fe9

Quote

Unlike the big four of CBS, ABC, NBC and Fox, The CW is not a network trying to make money on a grand scale off its live viewership. Rather, it was created as a vessel for 1st-run domestic broadcast. Why is that important? Because without somewhere to air first, there’s no way for television studios to achieve the syndication friendly number of 88-episodes necessary for profitable 2nd-tier syndication deals. The CW is a network created with the singular goal of getting the shows of its parent company to syndication qualifying numbers. That’s why most of its programming still runs traditional 22-episode seasons and why there’s never been outside programming from the likes of 20th Century Fox, NBCUniversal and ABC Studios featured on it.

Live viewership matters very little to a network like The CW because that same network is paying very little in licensing fees. To put it in broad terms, selling a show to The CW is similar to just moving money from one's left hand to the right. If the shows are creating buzz and next day viewership, that’s a gain for everyone because it says to after-market and international broadcasters, “people are going to watch this show anywhere they can. It behooves you to take it on for your day-time programming slate.” Warner Bros. and CBS are paying to keep afloat a vessel for its off-beat programming that won’t do well with live viewers on traditional networks like CBS that do rely on live ratings to cover licensing costs.

...

The CW is a vessel, not a network built onto itself. All of its shows are owned by its two parent companies who are happy to give Pedowitz the programming for next to nothing because there’s a good chance they'll perform exceptionally well later in life (admit it, you kind of want to watch Crazy Ex-Girlfriend more now than your did before its Golden Globe win last night).

Also, the CW is tapping into people who are johnny-come-latelys to content, and get excited about shows after they've been on the air awhile.  And for some of these shows, it creates a loop effect.  A show is on the air, gets slept on by a ton of viewers, but international broadcasts and streaming moves the show back up into the viewer consciousness and they watch more of it.  Social media engagement is huge - things have changed.  Pre-Scandal, tweet-watching was not a thing.  But that really catapulted Scandal to fame and then Empire... even Game of Thrones was buoyed by massive social media engagement.  That kind of buzz creates FOMO for viewers are aren't watching, so they tune in to be a part of the water cooler conversation.

The CW isn't a network like the others - it has a completely different business model.  Social media changed EVERYTHING.

Carina threatened all of that - literally the BASIS of CW's existence - when she came at ITV.   

[sweetandsour]

For someone who casually watches the show (out of the 40 or so shows I have queued to record on my DVR, I would rank it in the bottom 10) and has posted a few times in the episode threads - this showrunner change is fascinating schaudenfreude.  I never paid attention to the show on SM (outside of this forum) and I certainly never knew any gossip or read CAM's twitter of IG.  But wowwwwwww has she made a huge mess of things.  I was only aware of her IRL in terms of her aspirational, seemingly quite thirsty elbow-rubbing with stars and being part of their friend groups.  I just don't get that whole Amell-Tyler-CAM-Jarrett circle jerk at all.

Anyway, I think it's shocking that CAM still has those ITV posts up on her twitter.  Even after the damage control that had to be done on her behalf, she didn't take them down.  Even if she was told to take them down, she didn't.  I don't know how she reacted when she got a "talking-to" from network execs (and I have to imagine they demanded she apologize to ITV personally), but she's left the tweets up.  WOW. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she was just as bullheaded when the execs talked to her - probably doubling down on her "pursuit of justice" and that just pounded the nail into her coffin.  She didn't just make an impulsive mistake that showed she didn't have the base judgment, knowledge, and maturity necessary to be a showrunner from a business perspective.  She probably showed a level of "uncoachability" and hubris that made them think, "there's absolutely no future for us with someone who doesn't listen to the boss."  The earlier HR situations, any knowledge about poor creative decisions - the bosses brushed that off - but when they got it directly from her, they were like, in no uncertain terms, "goodbye."

I really don't expect to see her working on any live projects for at least a couple of years, if not longer.  I think she'll talk about these great ideas she's developing, but they're not backed by anyone to become a reality.  She can do her own damage control on her SM to her "fanbase," but that changes nothing about what the industry people think of her.  Even though she's done some work on a Berlanti show and he's got a lot of juice and a huge umbrella of projects, I think he would know it's unwise to hire her, even on shows that have nothing to do with Warner Bros.  Too many people on his shows have been publicly exposed, so it doesn't behoove him to hire, even as a supporting producer or a rank-and-file writer, someone he's not sure won't make his productions look bad and prompt more questions about hiring and ongoing HR practices.

If she and Plec work together again, there's really nothing that could make me watch it.  Even if my most favorite actors were in it and the plot was my dream plot.

[RachelKM]

The only thing about this that surprises me about this is that she was dumb enough not realize that fucking with a distributor was going to bite her in the ass.  That she was at least as erratic and problematic on set and in the writers room as she was on Twitter was all but inevitable.  I have never seen a person who was more professional at their work than they were about their work on social media. 

And she basically immolated her career going on an unhinged (apparently factually inaccurate) rant which would effect the financial stream of her show. 

Hell, even her tweet a few weeks ago about good things in the works for Maria sounded a little odd and manic and weirdly defensive. 

19 hours ago, Avabelle said:

I would think it’s a rarity but I guess Hollywood is full of bias and favouritism.

It is, which is one of the ways that it stays so white and mostly male.  People typically favor people who are like themselves.  And in this case it seems like a perfect storm of narcissism and mutually immature personality traits.  In Carina, Julie Plec, herself an unabashed immature fan girl on her own show, found someone who flattered her ego both with her writing and her similar nature leading Plec to take her under her wing and raise her as a mini-me - the ultimate act of narcissism.

 

 

[Avabelle]

Well it’s business as usual over on her Instagram anyway. She posted the name droppiest of all name droppy posts about getting some gifts by all Her amazing friends. 
 

[Cristofle]

1 hour ago, Avabelle said:

Well it’s business as usual over on her Instagram anyway. She posted the name droppiest of all name droppy posts about getting some gifts by all Her amazing friends. 
 

She has no self awareness. See: what she literally JUST tweeted.

I did not realize that her insane ITV thread WAS still on Twitter until you said so, sweetandsour! She never corrected or apologized as far as I can tell. 

[Chick2Chic]

52 minutes ago, Cristofle said:

She has no self awareness. See: what she literally JUST tweeted.

The disconnect is strong with that one. Yikes.

Also, count me in as someone who doesn't see Carina doing anything in the entertainment industry for a while. Carina has toxic mess stamped all over her but without the pull or protection of someone with powerful Hollywood friends to carry her through the storm. Someone informed me last night that Carina is a published author and sent me the goodreads link. Maybe she'll try to go back to that but writing isn't her strong suit.

I was telling someone the other day that it wasn't too long ago Carina was cackling on twitter about Ruby Rose "quitting" Batwoman. Karma came quick for Carina.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Chick2Chic

[Avabelle]

What did she say re Ruby Rose!

[phoenics]

2 hours ago, Avabelle said:

What did she say re Ruby Rose!

I remember her saying something shady, but now I can't find it!  I just remember it was directed at Ruby.  She must have deleted it because I looked and can't find it.

3 hours ago, Cristofle said:

She has no self awareness. See: what she literally JUST tweeted.

I did not realize that her insane ITV thread WAS still on Twitter until you said so, sweetandsour! She never corrected or apologized as far as I can tell. 

This is actually rage inducing.  She has ZERO self awareness.  

[Chick2Chic]

2 hours ago, Avabelle said:

What did she say re Ruby Rose!

 

7 minutes ago, phoenics said:

I remember her saying something shady, but now I can't find it!  I just remember it was directed at Ruby.  She must have deleted it because I looked and can't find it.

Someone screencapped and it's in the comments section here: https://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/117987413.html?thread=19808883029#t19808883029

[Cristofle]

Interesting that she deleted that but not the ITV rant. 

Tumblr fans are saying Carina unfollowed Nathan on some sort of social media? Man, WHAT did she do. LOL. Maybe that means Nathan is Team Jeanine, or maybe he's just generally irritated by her at this point.

[Bloga]

1 hour ago, Cristofle said:

Interesting that she deleted that but not the ITV rant. 

Tumblr fans are saying Carina unfollowed Nathan on some sort of social media? Man, WHAT did she do. LOL. Maybe that means Nathan is Team Jeanine, or maybe he's just generally irritated by her at this point.

         holy smokes! this is some comeuppance, funny she deleted the tweets about Ruby Rose...about Nathan, he´s not that active on social media, so who knows, what I know is he was and probably still is an All Lives Matter hashtagger, so for Carina to have been so close to him and claim to be so close to Amell, who is so blatantly ignorant and bigoted it´s astounding, to this day, says a lot about Carina´s performative wokeness.

[Featherhat]

I I can't see what was screencapped but I remember her and Jared being all gleeful and spiteful about it because of RR's alleged behavior. Which would be karma,

With the ITV stuff, I really don't know why it's still up. Maybe she thinks it's "right in spirit" even if it's wrong in actual facts or some such nonsense? Or she doesn't like anyone cutting her show even if it's out of their hands due to laws about transmission times and sex/violence? And it's the hill she died on basically. It's so stupid as she should have updated and directed fans to where they could watch the uncut "love story" scenes and the "just fucking" scenes intercut to the music just so on the Hub, thereby getting more traffic for ITV and her show. 

Some sites are reporting she got fired for protesting about ITV cutting "a tame love scene" and making her sound like she stood up for her anti homophobia/biphobia/bigotry principles so its not all bad for her to leave them up. But probably won't help her land another job where she doesn't have a friend willing to give her another boost. 

RE Nathan there are some people alleging something messy went down between them on The Originals, though I don't know how true it is. But with that and the "harassing leading man" accusations from KP? Could be something to do with it, but again we have no real confirmation. 

I definitely feel like the Jeanine thing is deliberate especially after what was claimed in the THR article and specifically denied by Carina and JM didn't say anything. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Featherhat

[Avabelle]

38 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Some sites are reporting she got fired for protesting about ITV cutting "a tame love scene" and making her sound like she stood up for her anti homophobia/biphobia/bigotry principles so its not all bad for her to leave them up

It’s so painfully obvious by her exit post that this is exactly the angle she’s pushing. What a toxic moron.