S07.E22: Leaving Storybrooke

[Camera One]

20 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

The pep talk didn't do anything to help Regina since Snowing showed up to save her anyway. 

I think the pep talk was supposed to have given Regina the strength to get through to the Evil Henry?  I actually don't remember anything Robin said to her in that scene, so I'm not sure.

EDIT: You just made me rewatch it, LOL.  So evil.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

30 minutes ago, Camera One said:

EDIT: You just made me rewatch it, LOL.  So evil.

Ha! You fool! I'm actually Wish!KingOfHearts, from a land where Wish!A&E are currently writing the show's eleventh season. I want everyone of all realms to share in my misery by making them rewatch scenes of it long after their version is cancelled! Muahahahaha!

Edited May 23, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[RolloTomasi]

I’m a little confused as to why Regina was made the Queen of All The Things (other the the obvious, of course). From watching the rest of the series, has Regina demonstrated she’s a good leader? At all? In the EF the kingdom was constantly at war and everyone hated her and as mayor in Storybrooke (when she didn’t step down because she had a sad over her married boyfriend) everyone was either in constant peril from an invading villain or Regina was realm jumping for an indeterminate amount of time. I honestly cannot think of an in-story reason why she would unanimously be voted queen (which also isn’t how a monarchy works but, you know...). 

[Rumsy4]

Instead of making Tiana the Queen of the Disenchanted Forest in the flashbacks, they should have made Regina queen. She should have taken over leadership of the resistance movement and actually done something to help the people of that Realm, instead of teaching an unstable Drizella magic and making everything worse. She ought to have proved herself capable of being a leader. As is, it makes people look like utter morons for "electing" a mass murdering heart-controlling rapist as the Queen of the Universe. In the timeline of her coronation, she had stopped doing all those things at most five to seven years ago? 

[RoberTee]

If everyone in the Wish Realm came back to Maine, does this mean all the villains they defeated during the show are now back in Storybrooke? Cora, that Snow Queen, Peter Pan, the Queens of Darkness, Hades, the Black Fairy, Lady Tremaine, etc... Are they all in the same place now? That'll end well...

And what about Drizella and Anastasia, who CHOSE to leave the real world? Were they living their lives quietly, when all of a sudden they were brought back? Not sure they were happy about that LMAO

[CCTC]

I rewatched it last night and caught a few things I missed due to following the live thread.  The coronation aside, it actually did a pretty good job of ending things.  They were not logical, but the spirit was right and there were some nice moments (Hook-Alice, Hook-Robyn, even Hook-Rumple, the Charmings rescue of Regina and actually being efficient, RealHook and Emma looking like slightly overwhelmed by happy parents of a new born etc).   

Things I originally missed due to following the live feed that make more sense now - Alice having the hook appear in the snow globe via magic.  I was originally wondering why WishRumple was so careless to leave that lying around there.  They were consistent with showing Henry as an inept hero - he would have been run through in his bungled attempt to rescue Regina if his grandparents had not shown up.  It was a nice entrance by the Charmings and was nice to see them lead the war room.  It does make one wonder why people would choose Regina to lead them later, but it was still to see them get to do more than just a short cameo.  I would have liked to see them a little more, but due to their restricted schedule, they did a pretty good job working them into the plot as more than window dressing.  Between that and Robyn and Alice contributing, it felt at least the heroes's actions were not completely futile and useless like the season 6 finale.

This time I caught that the Charmings and Zelina were out in the Wish Realm warning people which is why they were not present during the portal scene (in reality a way to work around their limited shooting availability).  What I noticed this time around was that Ella and Lucy were also not there.  You would have thought they would have down a companion scene to Hook and Alice with Henry desperately trying to hold on to his wife and/or daughter (esp. since they were on contract and would have been available for shooting).  They really were completely sidelined for two characters that were supposed to drive the reboot.

While I thought Rumple's redemption was not deserved, I thought they did a pretty good job with him and Hook and at least trying to play it like Rumple did not think he would get rewarded by joining Belle when he made the sacrifice.  Why did he think losing the Guardian would prevent him from joining Belle in the after-life.  Wasn't the Guardian mainly going to be a way for him to lose his immortality, which he no longer had, so he really no longer needed the Guardian.  I will be honest, I never really understood what the Guardian was supposed to be or do.  It is still really weird Rumple did not mention either of his children once during this.

While the Regina coronation and adoration (esp. from Wish Henry) was a bit stomach turning, I did appreciate at multiple times that Regina credited others (really her victims) for the reason she was able to turn it around.  One of the things I found hard about her redemption in season 3 or 4, is that people she had been horrible to were trying to help her and she still would be condescending and snarky when talking to them.  At least they made it seem like she does now appreciate them.  As corny and cliche as it was I did like the implication that people's stories would continue and adventures would still be happening, even though we would not be seeing them.  I would be shocked if it happened, but two hour movies a few years down the road could be fun.  It would be short blocks of time where they could just focus on fairy tale adventures and not get completely bogged down in a mythology that is supposed to be played out in a ten episode arc. 

The united realms really seemed to be a lot of urban sprawl with not much  magical forest or green space between kingdoms.  I am assuming that Story Brooke joined those realms on some other plain and that they are not all in Maine.

[Inquirer]

2 hours ago, CCTC said:

Between that and Robyn and Alice contributing, it felt at least the heroes's actions were not completely futile and useless like the season 6 finale.

That is a nice improvement. In the S6 finale, only Emma, Henry and (ugh) Rumple mattered in heroic actions. Here, everyone did.....except Henry, lol, he sucks at his job.

Quote

Why did he think losing the Guardian would prevent him from joining Belle in the after-life.  Wasn't the Guardian mainly going to be a way for him to lose his immortality, which he no longer had, so he really no longer needed the Guardian.  I will be honest, I never really understood what the Guardian was supposed to be or do. 

He'd lose his immortality by the Guardian taking away the Darkness and purifying his heart in the process. Without the Guardian, he can't be purified...even when Wish Rumple wrote away his immortality and took the Darkness all for himself, Rumple's heart was still black when he first took it out.  But it turned pure when he used it to save Rogers, so he got to reunite with Belle after all.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Inquirer

[KingOfHearts]

8 hours ago, CCTC said:

 The coronation aside, it actually did a pretty good job of ending things. 

I liked that it wasn't as heavy-handed as the S6 finale. We didn't get this long montage with each character getting a vague happy ending. I would've hated an ending where everything just turned back to the status quo, with the newbies sent back to the Disenchanted Forest of their time and everyone else just chills in Storybrooke. That wouldn't have felt conclusive to me. As ridiculous as Regina's coronation and the merging of realms is, it's memorable and has some substance. It's more worthy of discussion than the main characters sitting around shooting an Olive Garden commercial at Granny's. In my opinion, S7 ending is testament to how bizarre the show's writing is and will always be remembered.

I don't find Regina's coronation offensive as much as "WTF". At least it was something. I've been watching this show for a while based on just how weird it is, and this wasn't any different. When you think about it from a meta perspective, it's the ending we all expected and A&E were leading up to.

Edited May 24, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

I think that Rumple has been pretty much ruined as a character at this point, with all his pointless turns back to evil and manipulation of his supposed one true love, but if we needed to end his story now, I think it could have been a lot worse. At least Rumple, unlike Regina, has become self aware enough that he knows what his flaws are, and they've been pretty consistent throughout. His cowardice, and his lust for power have been his biggest flaws, and he acknowledged that, and did something that he didnt know would benefit him (dying for a version of one of his great enemies) and something brave (going to the great unknown), and as far as redemption quests go, for this show, it worked pretty well. 

[Camera One]

This episode, unlike the Season 6 finale, had the final death and redemption of a major villain.  It had more adventure where characters were working towards a goal in an Enchanted Land.  It had more fun villains (Wish Rumple and Wish Henry).  It had a significant happy ending/reunion for Whook and Alice. 

In comparison, the Season 6 finale was tedious and frustrating with Emma yet again having no memory and Henry tiresomely trying to convince her.  The fairy tale scenes consisted of characters standing around wringing their hands with minimal action.  The villains were the overstayed-her-welcome Black Fairy and the annoying Gold the backstabber.  Plus we got the waste-of-time scenes with Adult Henry and Lucy.

I think I was primed and ready for A&E's wet dream so the coronation didn't phase me too much.  Implying that the heroes would willingly have The Last Supper with Rumple was just as insulting, as were the Dwarves naming Regina their Queen despite what she did to them.  In some ways, the coronation was a little less personal.  Snowing said "They chose you", not "We chose you". 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I think I was primed and ready for A&E's wet dream so the coronation didn't phase me too much.  Implying that the heroes would willingly have The Last Supper with Rumple was just as insulting, as were the Dwarves naming Regina their Queen despite what she did to them.  In some ways, the coronation was a little less personal.  Snowing said "They chose you", not "We chose you". 

Agreed. It doesn't imply that the Charmings have to be chummy with her. She has two Henry's now.

[Inquirer]

20 hours ago, Camera One said:

The fairy tale scenes consisted of characters standing around wringing their hands with minimal action.

Disagree, I thought there was a lot of great action and fun character interactions in those scenes. The characters (Hook, Charming, The Evil Queen, Snow and even Jasmine at one point) were being pro-active.  The problem was that it was ultimately filler - what they were trying to accomplish ended up failing completely, making it all a big waste of time.  Whereas in this finale, the stuff everyone was doing seemed to actually matter, and if Wish Rumple nullified something they did then they'd try something else so that it felt like an actual even-handed contest between the heroes and the villains, which is very rare and welcome in this show (it hasn't happened since, what, Hades in 5B?)

The only thing I maintain the S6 finale has over this one is Emma getting to be the big hero.  While the ultimate way she was - letting herself get stabbed - didn't have the impact it could have due to all the previous instances of her and other heroes just being expected to take it and not fight back, when you push that aside and look at it in the context of the situation, it makes perfect sense and is a perfect Emma thing to do - putting Gideon, her family, and Light Magic itself ahead of herself because that's the person she is, a truly selfless Savior, and being able to find a better way around the problem than Regina did in the extremely similar case with the Count of Monte Cristo in 6x02. Personally, I thought that it made the tedium of the S1 rehash with Emma and Henry that had preceded it worth it. 

By contrast, in this finale, the big heroes are Regina and Rumple, because of course it is. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Inquirer

[Camera One]

Most of the screentime in the Enchanted Forest were conversations inside Snowing's castle.  The only time they ventured away was the 4 minutes with Charming and Hook going up the beanstalk and getting the bean, and 4 minutes with the women finding Hook and Charming injured, which was more reactive than proactive to me.  I wish I enjoyed it more, but I didn't, though the Enchanted Forest parts were arguably still more interesting than Storybrooke or the Disenchanted Forest portions of the episode.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Camera One

[Inquirer]

9 minutes ago, Camera One said:

though the Enchanted Forest parts were arguably still more interesting than Storybrooke or the Disenchanted Forest portions of the episode.

Definitely. The Disenchanted Forest stuff was just confusing, and until Emma came back after leaving, the Storybrooke stuff was just a bunch of "'Member Season 1?"

Edited May 25, 2018 by Inquirer

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, Inquirer said:

the Storybrooke stuff was just a bunch of "'Member Season 1?"

 

If they had to do that, I wish they could have reversed the situation and have Emma gradually wake everyone up... Henry, then her mom, her dad, Hook, Granny, Blue, etc.  Emma could have pretended she was Cursed, and beat Madam Mayor Black Fairy at her own game by mounting an internal resistance.  That was something I wish we had seen in Season 2 but never did.  

Edited May 25, 2018 by Camera One

[Inquirer]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

If they had to do that, I wish they could have reversed the situation and have Emma gradually wake everyone up... Henry, then her mom, her dad, Hook, Granny, Blue, etc.  Emma could have pretended she was Cursed, and beat Madam Mayor Black Fairy at her own game by mounting an internal resistance.  That was something I wish we had seen in Season 2 but never did.  

Once again, this board comes up with a more interesting situation than the writers do.

[KingOfHearts]

15 hours ago, Camera One said:

If they had to do that, I wish they could have reversed the situation and have Emma gradually wake everyone up... Henry, then her mom, her dad, Hook, Granny, Blue, etc.  Emma could have pretended she was Cursed, and beat Madam Mayor Black Fairy at her own game by mounting an internal resistance.  That was something I wish we had seen in Season 2 but never did.  

 

These are the same writers who wanted to break the curse halfway through S1 and the network said no. This is the only show where I'm thankful for everything the network has asked of them.

Edited May 25, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[tri4335]

So before I deleted this off my DVR, I rewatched the Emma scenes and I have to say that JMO's arms are kicking it!  I missed this in the first watching because I was distracted with the ill fitting prom dress but they are really, really awesome!

[Rushmoras]

Wow, almost thirty minutes in. It's so bad that it's good. Evil emo Henry, if you are going to kill Regina, go and kill her, don't do puppy dog eyes on her, or if you only wanted some pep talk, go find a shrink. 

The hope speeches are even cheezier than Supergirl's speeches. And that's saying something.

How does Rumpels death destroy WHooks curse? I thought Mother Dreadlocks put it on him.

Snow and David. Oh, yeah, we will just pop in to other worlds to warn them. Is now as easy as going to a Starbucks!

[Rumsy4]

6 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

How does Rumpels death destroy WHooks curse? I thought Mother Dreadlocks put it on him.

Either WHook has two hearts now and has become Dr. Who, or Rumple's heart completely replaced the poisoned heart.

Edited June 7, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

On 6/6/2018 at 8:30 PM, Rumsy4 said:

WHook has two hearts now and has become Dr. Who

I would be up for that series.

But it is weird that they treat the heart as some kind of seat of the soul, where someone can function with it outside their body as long as it's not crushed, and the heart represents a person's essence, but now they're supposedly interchangeable. The reason Snow was able to share her heart with Charming was that they'd had "one heart" since they met, so her heart was already his, in a way. If Rumple could just stick his heart in Whook, then could they have used random hearts from Regina's vault to save people all along? Emma's initial plan to save Hook Prime from the Underworld was to give him part of her heart, but now it seems like she could have just brought any old heart to him. Surely Whook and Rumple weren't such close buddies that they could have been said to share a heart, unless there was something about them both loving Alice that made it work.

[Camera One]

And Whook's poisoned heart is a different poison from Adult Henry's poisoned heart, which could be cured by some voodoo mumbo jumbo.  We need a medical encyclopedia to figure out all these made-up-on-the-fly ailments.

Edited June 8, 2018 by Camera One

[Mitch]

Finally watched this episode...and I liked it..of course, I watched it the only way you should watch Once, with several beers under my belt and a bottle of wine in hand..

I thought Parrilla and RC were the best they have been in years...almost back to S1. WishRump was actually kind of scary and his plan to trap everyone in their own individual unhappy stories for ever was really EVIL for once and smart...(why did no other villain think to keep everyone apart and with no magical solutions available.) But why was Zelena trapped in a ship's hull?  Parrila sold it in the dream bar as being alone and scared. Nice to see Charms and Snow and nice to not hear a line from Jacinda and her toothy kid. I thought the Hook actor was really good,  Hook in any form is so much better when he is not holding Emma's purse..(sorry fans..I though the pairing weakend both characters...) and thought Gilmore was really good as Angry Henry. Madder wins the prize for having the best lines in the finale again...("Yes, I am the Wicked Witch and I AM fabulous..would you like a selfie.." and "Zorro is a DRAGON???") she has taken over Emma's role of being the voice of the audience ....(last year's "Well that was disappointing.") Madder was the one actor on the show who knew what kind of show she was on and had fun with it..(I think LP still thought it was S1 and took the show and her character too seriously..)

Stupid things...

How was everyone going to warn everyone else? How were they supposed to realm hop???

There is still no explanation for the Wish Realm...how was it real when EmmaPrime was there and there was no WishEmma? Who gave birth to WishHenry?

How was WishBlue trapped by guards and why didn't she fight back and did he get released or do we throw her in the pile with Milah, Aunt Em, the Scarecrow as characters that the writers don't give a damn about..(one line.."After Rumpell died Blue was released from the book" would have been fine.)

If it was so easy to realm hop..why was Regina acting as if leaving the WishRealm was hard? They should have had WishRump say he had trapped everyone in the realm and they couldn't leave...(I know they had to get the Charmings off camera...but just have them going on one of their useless fact finding missions instead of warnging poeple.. and that would have give Regina a reason to cast another curse.. And why bring all the realms together? And are there just 4..I thought there were countless?

They couldn't take a crap without Emma before, why no mention of getting the Savior to help?

I don't mind Regina getting the happy ending but that was just...stupid.

Emma and Hook came off as annoyingly self satisfied...hey thanks for your help people. Morrison phoned it in.

[justmythoughts]

For some stupid reason, bronwsing TV channels I came across this last episode and the final stupidity was on my own, decided to re-watch it. 

Thank God I have a strong stomach, I had forgotten how horrible it was, specially Regina's coronation as the good queen... I liked she didn't get to find a new love interest, to show that a woman can and will be happy with her life without a man (or even romantic love). But that BS of her being chosen, elected (say goodbye to all meanings of democracy, rest in peace Aristoteles, please never lay your eyes - wherever you are - on this dreadful episode or you will wish to die again).

This series became the Regina wagon and many actors saw that and said bye bye, For us as fans it is difficult to do the same (as we still had many ones we liked hanging by a thread there). But this last episode made it all easier. Even the ones I liked the most (the Charmings and Emma and Killian) the authors managed to even now make just as cheerleaders for Regina and Rumple, onw or two sentences, no connection with their important pasts... no, it is all Regina, and I am not saying her story was not important. It was, but balance is important, even water in large amount can kill someone. Too much Regina killed OUAT.

[AudienceofOne]

Despite declaring I would never watch this season, when I found out this was truly going to be the last one I changed my mind. I had endured six already, it seemed odd not to watch the final one. I sat down and watched it over the last several weeks and finally finished it last night.

I have thoughts, quite a few of them, but when I got to the end I was mostly confused about the curse(s).

What was the point of the Hyperion Heights curse? Why did Ivy cast it? What she was hoping to achieve? It was the main conceit of the whole season and I still have no idea why it was cast.

[Shanna Marie]

23 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

What was the point of the Hyperion Heights curse? Why did Ivy cast it? What she was hoping to achieve? It was the main conceit of the whole season and I still have no idea why it was cast.

Near as I can tell (and it doesn't make much sense if you put the events in chronological order), Gothel conned Drizella into casting the curse because the stone from the wood nymphs' prehistoric homeland was in the basement of a Seattle movie theater, and Gothel needed to get back there to cast a spell to do ... something. Drizella thought she was casting the curse to punish her mother for loving Anastasia more.

Don't ask me why the curse was necessary. There were multiple ways Gothel could have traveled between worlds because Storybrooke was around and therefore travel between worlds was possible. If she wanted the Dark Curse cast, Gothel was just as capable of holding Henry hostage and forcing Regina to use her previous sacrifice. There was no real need for Gothel to have used Drizella. It's not like with Rumple and Regina, where Rumple couldn't sacrifice the thing he loved most, since that was the person he was trying to reach. Drizella's motivation made no sense at all, since she was "punishing" her mother by making her wealthy and in power and, in spite of the curse, still able to revive Anastasia.

ETA: I found my post from the 2.0 thread putting the whole thing in chronological order. It might help clarify things, but it still makes no sense:

Gothel is a wood nymph in prehistoric Victorian Dynasty Seattle who is fascinated by humans. But when the prehistoric Victorian Heathers she thinks are her friends wipe out all the super-powerful magical wood nymphs, she goes Carrie on them with her superpowers, killing all humans and eradicating all magic, turning it into a World Without Magic. Vowing to come back for more revenge after they've evolved again, she uses a magic bean to jump to another world -- where apparently she spends thousands of years living among humans. She apparently doesn't think about breeding her own army of half-wood nymphs who'd have powers like hers and could rule over humans or help her invade the World Without Magic again. For Reasons, she needs to find the Guardian, a person who apparently gets magical powers for being super good. She locks Rapunzel in the tower when Rapunzel is willing to sacrifice for her family, then tempts her after she escapes. After Rapunzel fails the Guardian test, the next target is Anastasia, who dies trying to save her stepsister from falling through the ice. But Rapunzel doesn't want her daughter revived and stuck in a tower, so she makes Gothel's spell backfire on her so she's stuck in the tower. Gothel gets her chance to escape when WHook comes looking for the magical flower. Instead of seducing him right then, she sends him to get the flower, taking a chance that he'll come back like he promised. She conceives and gives birth to Alice, using her presence as someone in her bloodline to allow her to escape from the tower. It doesn't seem to occur to her that her daughter might have inherited her magic or might be the Guardian, and she makes no effort to win over her daughter. Instead, she lets WHook raise her and they develop a bond, until for Reasons Gothel decides to poison his heart to keep him away from Alice. Alice eventually escapes with no apparent ill effects to Gothel, so there's no reason she needed to keep Alice in the tower or keep her father away from her. Instead of cultivating and training her own daughter, she recruits and tests random girls with magical powers and cons Drizella into casting the dark curse Drizella got fixated upon after hearing about it from Regina (even though Regina ended up being the one to actually cast it, they seemed to have given the impression that Gothel was helping Drizella get the curse cast). Although Gothel engineered the whole thing, she makes her curse identity be as Rapunzel/Victoria's prisoner, and she gives Victoria information on how to revive Anastasia so that she'll have a Guardian (instead of, you know, dealing with her own daughter). Then she does a spell to revive Lucy after the spell to revive Anastasia nearly kills her. She spends some time messing with Rogers, demanding to see his artwork, etc., while a serial killer targets her coven. Finally, when it's time to cast her spell, she kidnaps Rogers and uses him as a hostage to force her daughter (the one she only just seems to have realized might have inherited her power) to participate in her spell that will allow her to wipe out humanity again in revenge for the pre-historic Heathers.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Shanna Marie

[AudienceofOne]

12 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Near as I can tell (and it doesn't make much sense if you put the events in chronological order), Gothel conned Drizella into casting the curse because the stone from the wood nymphs' prehistoric homeland was in the basement of a Seattle movie theater, and Gothel needed to get back there to cast a spell to do ... something. Drizella thought she was casting the curse to punish her mother for loving Anastasia more.

Don't ask me why the curse was necessary. There were multiple ways Gothel could have traveled between worlds because Storybrooke was around and therefore travel between worlds was possible. If she wanted the Dark Curse cast, Gothel was just as capable of holding Henry hostage and forcing Regina to use her previous sacrifice. There was no real need for Gothel to have used Drizella. It's not like with Rumple and Regina, where Rumple couldn't sacrifice the thing he loved most, since that was the person he was trying to reach. Drizella's motivation made no sense at all, since she was "punishing" her mother by making her wealthy and in power and, in spite of the curse, still able to revive Anastasia.

No wonder the writers got rid of all the antagonists at the halfway mark. There was no one around to ask for an explanation.

My main takeaway from this season was that Hook remains my favourite character and giving him a daughter was a stroke of brilliance. I'm actually glad Emma left, not because she wasn't my favourite character, but because she would have been just as sidelined and marginalised if she was there. At least she was sidelined and marginalised because she wasn't in the show anymore. 

I thought the season wasn't that bad (despite it not making any sense) right up until the weird slapped-on Regina love-in at the end. That was just awful.

[KingOfHearts]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:44 PM, AudienceofOne said:

I thought the season wasn't that bad (despite it not making any sense) right up until the weird slapped-on Regina love-in at the end. That was just awful.

Especially when it had nothing to do with the rest of the season, like at all. Regina had almost nothing to do most of the season, then all of a sudden she's at the center of everything. Typical.

[AudienceofOne]

14 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Especially when it had nothing to do with the rest of the season, like at all. Regina had almost nothing to do most of the season, then all of a sudden she's at the center of everything. Typical.

I would have thought that a decent arc for Regina would have involved her realising that being the Queen of Everything wasn't her happy ending. I mean, wasn't the entire point of the whole Robin thing (at the beginning) that she had a choice between happiness and power but chose power and that was the wrong choice? Just like Rumple kept choosing power instead of his own happy ending? Why is ultimate power suddenly the desired end of her arc? 

I mean, say what you will about Rumple as a character or about Rumpbelle as an OTP, but at least his arc made sense.

Henry remained pretty much pointless in both iterations of the show - you can't create a narrative around a character created solely to be a plot contrivance - but how they wrote Hook was great. I mean, both Hook and Whook chose family and friendship over revenge in both versions of the show. I think that's great. 

[Rumsy4]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:44 PM, AudienceofOne said:

My main takeaway from this season was that Hook remains my favourite character and giving him a daughter was a stroke of brilliance. I'm actually glad Emma left, not because she wasn't my favourite character, but because she would have been just as sidelined and marginalised if she was there. At least she was sidelined and marginalised because she wasn't in the show anymore. 

Agreed on both counts. 

On 7/25/2018 at 2:15 AM, AudienceofOne said:

I would have thought that a decent arc for Regina would have involved her realising that being the Queen of Everything wasn't her happy ending. I mean, wasn't the entire point of the whole Robin thing (at the beginning) that she had a choice between happiness and power but chose power and that was the wrong choice? Just like Rumple kept choosing power instead of his own happy ending? Why is ultimate power suddenly the desired end of her arc? 

It would've been the perfect end if Regina had declined the crown and given it to Snow instead--finally acknowledging all the wrongs she did the other. But no--OUAT had to end with a Reginagasm. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

18 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

But no--OUAT had to end with a Reginagasm. 

And here we dreamed it would be Henry and Emma reading the storybook in a castle or something.

Edited July 29, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[legaleagle53]

On 6/14/2018 at 9:59 AM, Mitch said:

There is still no explanation for the Wish Realm...how was it real when EmmaPrime was there and there was no WishEmma? Who gave birth to WishHenry?

Emma Prime WAS the Wish Emma for that realm.  It was specifically created to be the world she would have existed in if Regina had never cast the original curse.  So in that realm, until Regina finally brought Emma to her senses and reminded her of who she REALLY was and where she REALLY came from, Emma only remembered that she had always lived in that realm, and yes, she was the one who gave birth to Wish Henry by Sir Nealfire.

Edited August 3, 2018 by legaleagle53

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

she was the one who gave birth to Wish Henry by Sir Nealfire.

Since there are not two Emmas, I disagree. Nothing about the Wish Realm makes sense even now. 

[daxx]

10 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Since there are not two Emmas, I disagree. Nothing about the Wish Realm makes sense even now. 

The only thing that could make it make sense is if that realm always existed as an alternate EF and the wish just sent our Emma there and sent the WEmma elsewhere. It would have been fun if that Emma had been brought to Storybrooke when our Emma was sent there,

[Rumsy4]

6 minutes ago, daxx said:

It would have been fun if that Emma had been brought to Storybrooke when our Emma was sent there,

That would've been hilarious! Maybe I should write that as a sequel to my Captain Charming Wishverse AU. ;-p

[KingOfHearts]

Wish!Emma in Storybrooke would've been great. I would've loved to see everyone's reactions. She could've been full on Giselle from Enchanted.

Edited August 3, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Wish!Emma in Storybrooke would've been great. I would've loved to see everyone's reactions. She could've been full on Giselle from Enchanted.

Would she have been altered to have grown up with the curse, so she was a somewhat warped version of our Emma, or would it just be our Emma who was affected by the curse and turned into the Emma without the curse, and Wish!Emma was merely displaced to our world to make room for our Emma in the Wishverse?

Though while Giselle in Storybrooke would have been highly entertaining, I still believe that the daughter of a Snow White who successfully defeated the Evil Queen and stripped her of her powers (rather than caving and letting her go, like our version did) wouldn't have been a useless princess out of touch with reality. She certainly wouldn't have been full-on our Emma, but Snow's daughter should have been capable of handling a sword and a bow, and clearly she'd lost someone she must have loved and was a young widow, so she'd been through something pretty bad.

[KingOfHearts]

27 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Though while Giselle in Storybrooke would have been highly entertaining, I still believe that the daughter of a Snow White who successfully defeated the Evil Queen and stripped her of her powers (rather than caving and letting her go, like our version did) wouldn't have been a useless princess out of touch with reality. She certainly wouldn't have been full-on our Emma, but Snow's daughter should have been capable of handling a sword and a bow, and clearly she'd lost someone she must have loved and was a young widow, so she'd been through something pretty bad.

Taking this to Shoulda Happened This Way.

[tennisgurl]

You know, the more I think about it, the more the whole "bring all the worlds together to greater one kingdom under Good Queen/Dictator for Life Regina" thing has a few flaws.

Like, I sure do hope everyone had their vaccines already when they got dragged to some new universe with a billion new people! Make sure they got their Martian Flu, Grey Scale, and good old smallpox vaccines are updated? Oh, you mean half these people have never had any kind of vaccine, no kind of exposure and way to build up immunity, and many of these illnesses didnt even exist in their home universe? Well, lets hope Regina managed to jazz hands up some medical clinics real fast, or we could have a teeny tiny pandemic on our hands! And lets hope we have some doctors and healers and such around, unless...

Well, there are a few ways I see people reacting to suddenly being enveloped in purple mist and shunted to a new land, or what the immediate aftermath was. Maybe everyone was in their home land, and they managed to figure out what went down before panic seeped in...or maybe everyone ended up together in some jumble at first, with trillions of sentient beings, as well as animals and such, all being thrown together into one big land, some of whom have no idea about magic or curses or Regina or the multiverse. I sure do hope that potent mix of panic, fear, and weapons/powers/magic/tech/teeth dont lead to a massive blood bath based around misunderstandings, wild animals running amok, and villains and garden variety assholes causing instant havoc. Or, with the massive variety of conflicting mythologies out there, I hope that there are no tragic misunderstandings where species that are always evil in one universe, or look scary and dangerous, but are actually good in other universes, are killed on sight by people who dont know better, or even kill them by accident. That would sure suck.

Also, I am curious as to what all the old leaders of these various worlds are thinking about all of this. So every single president, monarch, emperor/empress, prime minister, chief, dictator, captain, etc was just totally cool with giving up power to kneel before some random woman they dont know, who doesn't know them, or their people? Would there be no uprisings, or people who are trying to gain power? Or, how about those monsters, super-villains, criminals, and other such folk maybe those ogres we keep hearing about? Are they all running around going after people from other realms who have no ability to fight them? I dont see the Smurfs doing so well against Darkside, you know? Do Regina and company have the power to watch ALL of these villains, and keep the peace, even after the hypothetical slaughter of the early days? 

And thats just the big stuff that pops into my head instantly, beyond things like figuring out a currency, or questioning how animals and plants that are native to a dessert environment like Agrabah could survive in the same climate as plants and animals native to a Nordic country like Arendale, or how people who certainly cant all speak the same language can all communicate enough to try and fix ANY of these problems, but maybe I am engaging in some nitpicking. Maybe Regina can magically explain the situation to everyone instantly, jazz hand away all the criminals and illnesses, and can just make everything awesome by magic. But, you know, maybe explain some of that to us so we dont imagine this finale being less Happy Ending and more Mad Max. 

Or, one of my possible head cannons, the only realms sucked in were the ones we have already seen. Every other second of the multiverse have built massive security systems that bar Regina's magic from getting to them, or allowing any of the EF folks into their lands. Nobody wants to deal with that shit. "If you or someone you know has seen a brunette woman waving magical jazz hands while crying about how much her life sucks, a woman with short hair rambling about hope, a sparkly Scotsmen, or a hipster on a motorcycle making stupid Star wars references, please immediately evacuate the area, and report this to your local Anti Magic Bullshit Squad as soon as possible." 

Edited August 4, 2018 by tennisgurl

[AudienceofOne]

20 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Martian Flu, Grey Scale

1950s scifi alien soft porn world is going to be an interesting addition to Russian literary realism world. I vote we depose Regina and hand control to Thursday Next. 

[tennisgurl]

18 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

1950s scifi alien soft porn world is going to be an interesting addition to Russian literary realism world. I vote we depose Regina and hand control to Thursday Next. 

I second that motion! So Say We All!

[KingOfHearts]

Did 2017 Henry, Robyn, and Regina just cease to exist? I love how changing the timeline in S3 was potentially catastrophic, but here it's "lol, let's merge all the worlds together". What about Zelena and her husband? Their memories and life together is gone now. Sure they can meet again, but it won't be the same. This has got to be the biggest time paradox ever conceived in fiction.

Edited August 4, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I still don't get how Henry will still somehow meet Jacinda to have Lucy even though they merged all the worlds before any of that happened.  I guess the Storybrooke census will now include how many clones of yourself exist in town.  You can have lunch with yourself whenever you want.  

Edited August 4, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I still don't get how Henry will still somehow meet Jacinda to have Lucy even though they merged all the worlds before any of that happened.  I guess the Storybrooke census will now include how many clones of yourself exist in town.  You can have lunch with yourself whenever you want.  

 

That's just what this show needed. More Regina clones. Are they going to fight over who has the rights over Queen of the Multiverse? 

You've seen Wicked vs. Evil, but what about Evil vs. Evil vs. Evil vs. Evil? We could've gotten such a great season 8!

Edited August 4, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

A&E's scorched earth retreat strategy for ending the show so no writer can ever continue it in any way that makes sense.

[AudienceofOne]

14 minutes ago, Camera One said:

A&E's scorched earth retreat strategy for ending the show so no writer can ever continue it in any way that makes sense.

They woke up and it was all a dream...

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

1950s scifi alien soft porn world is going to be an interesting addition to Russian literary realism world. I vote we depose Regina and hand control to Thursday Next. 

Dang! Thursday Next was the Realm Jumper we all needed!

8 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

They woke up and it was all a dream...

Or a nightmare. This is probably the first time I would’ve preferred a TV show to have ended like this. lol

[profdanglais]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I sure do hope that potent mix of panic, fear, and weapons/powers/magic/tech/teeth dont lead to a massive blood bath based around misunderstandings, wild animals running amok, and villains and garden variety assholes causing instant havoc.

Regina really does have her work cut out for her. Maybe being Queen of Everything is what she deserves...

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Dang! Thursday Next was the Realm Jumper we all needed!

The whole of the unfinished stories (or whatever) arc, I was thinking how Jasper Fforde did that so much better...

[Mitch]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Or, one of my possible head cannons, the only realms sucked in were the ones we have already seen. Every other second of the multiverse have built massive security systems that bar Regina's magic from getting to them, or allowing any of the EF folks into their lands. Nobody wants to deal with that shit. "If you or someone you know has seen a brunette woman waving magical jazz hands while crying about how much her life sucks, a woman with short hair rambling about hope, a sparkly Scotsmen, or a hipster on a motorcycle making stupid Star wars references, please immediately evacuate the area, and report this to your local Anti Magic Bullshit Squad know as soon as possible." 

God, how I would have loved that the show ended that way! Who indeed would want to deal with the EF people and their idiotic BS..(I would take Emma, Hook and defininatley Zelena cause you gotta have the cool sister with all the zingers..)

 

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

A&E's scorched earth retreat strategy for ending the show so no writer can ever continue it in any way that makes sense

Ah...they can just ignore s6..like the next Halloween movie ignores every H movie but the first. They just didnt exist.

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

You know, the more I think about it, the more the whole "bring all the worlds together to greater one kingdom under Good Queen/Dictator for Life Regina" thing has a few flaws.

A few?

My headcanon is that the worlds weren't really all brought together in Storybrooke. They just opened permanent portals that made it seem that way, so you could walk down the street and be in another place, but you'd really passed through a portal. The worlds didn't move. It was just the barriers between worlds that dropped so it was easy to maintain a permanent portal. Though I still don't know why you'd want to do that.

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

9 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

They woke up and it was all a dream...

Or a nightmare. This is probably the first time I would’ve preferred a TV show to have ended like this. lol

I was really hoping it would end with teen Henry waking up in Storybrooke and talking about the crazy dream he'd just had when he comes downstairs to breakfast with his mom, stepdad and baby sister. This is the one series ending where "it (or at least the last season) was all a dream" would have been an improvement rather than a cop-out.

Or else adult Henry gets killed (maybe when the curse is broken?), and a desperate Regina resorts to calling her 2018 self to warn her not to let Henry leave town, so that whole timeline gets erased. Though that doesn't resolve all the wacky age issues the way "it was all a dream" would. It would make sense for Henry to dream the adults he knows as looking the same age, even if he's all grown up in the dream.

12 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Did 2017 Henry, Robyn, and Regina just cease to exist? I love how changing the timeline in S3 was potentially catastrophic, but here it's "lol, let's merge all the worlds together".

 

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

I still don't get how Henry will still somehow meet Jacinda to have Lucy even though they merged all the worlds before any of that happened. 

That's a real problem. How can it not affect the timeline if 2018 teen Henry meets his future wife before he heads off to have adventures and meet her? How is he going off realm-hopping when all the realms are right there? Will 2018 Regina need to leave town to go follow Henry, and thus set things off by teaching Drizella magic and telling her about the curse? But if none of that happens, does that mean the timeline disintegrates? There would be no Hyperion Heights curse, and so no merged worlds. But then the merged worlds thing is the reason the timeline disintegrated because that's why all this stuff doesn't happen.

Seriously, all this kept me wide awake the night it aired, and I still haven't been able to make it make sense in my head.