S05.E22: Homecoming

[CheshireCat]

17 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

I wish just ONE TIME the higher ups who are out to get Voight, or Boden on Fire, would NOT be the evil conniving dirty characters we have to keep seeing. I know there are honorable people in real life in these positions who should be investigating people like Voight. Promote Platt and have her go after him, especially since she was close to Al too and Voight certainly at least indirectly was involved in his death. 

Platt? Going after Voight? After she came close to killing the guy who killed her father and we've seen her to be fiercely loyal and understanding of Voight?

 

17 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

If a writer ever says "I have to....", it's bogus. They're writers. They are making it all up anyway--if they can't write around something and make it plausible to us, then they're not very good. I remember reading that some Madmen writers didn't like writing Betty, worded in such a way that the response was, "Really? Because you invented her." Same here--they did not have to kill Al, they do not "have to" keep writing the same thing over and over.

I agree. Allowing the characters to determine how they're written is a choice they make because they're characters. They can't dictate anything.

[Xeliou66]

The only way to prevent viewers from all siding against Voight is by having those going after him be scum as well. If an honorable person went after Voight, well the majority of viewers would side against Voight.

[MakeMeLaugh]

7 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Platt? Going after Voight? After she came close to killing the guy who killed her father and we've seen her to be fiercely loyal and understanding of Voight?

....

I think Trudy as played by the great imo Amy Morton could be amazing as a higher up, especially dealing with colleagues she knows. Even backing out all the “this one was personal” bad cop stories (which can’t possibly be very common irl), Vought still has a long list of suspect/witnesses he’s brutally beaten the crap out of (not “justifiably” to avenge a loved one), and not to mention his double secret cash stash of mysterious origins in his basement that used to figure in every other episode, and I would love to see good writers create the good guys who could have at him vs the Woods-type of characters. I am doubtful that will ever happen. 

[TigerLynx]

I wish Voight would be forced to retire, and Antonio promoted to head the unit.  Then I want to see Antonio try to do things by the book, and not cross the line.  What would happen if Intelligence didn't close as many cases if they followed all the rules?  What would the higher ups do then?  Also, how are any of the people who were involved in Al's incarceration not under investigation?  The corrupt guard is one thing, but Al never should have been in gen pop in the first place.

[CheshireCat]

21 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

I wish Voight would be forced to retire, and Antonio promoted to head the unit.  Then I want to see Antonio try to do things by the book, and not cross the line.  What would happen if Intelligence didn't close as many cases if they followed all the rules?  What would the higher ups do then?  Also, how are any of the people who were involved in Al's incarceration not under investigation?  The corrupt guard is one thing, but Al never should have been in gen pop in the first place.

Probably replace Antonio. I think, at the end of the day, it's the numbers that count. People want to feel safe. Closing cases is a part of that.

[spunky]

On 5/10/2018 at 3:48 PM, kixfan said:

Another thing that really angered me was Al's notification of death by the doctor. Like no big deal it doesn't matter. I can promise you that is not the case. I have informed more loved ones and physicians of a person's passing than I care for. It never gets any easier and they all matter. To give notice is such a blaise attitude is inexcusable and really poor writing. They could have provided a tactful notification of death and still avoided all of the hoopla that Koteas did not want. Truthfully, I almost turned the show off at that point.

Unfortunately one of my clients was informed by a doctor with this same blaise attitude that they were terminally ill. I could swear this doctor was written based off of him.

[greyhorse]

Pretty sad that Olinsky's last words on the show were him mumbling "I got this..."  Seems like that was all he was mumbling the last several episodes.  They really wrote his character out of the show this year.  I suppose the writing was on the wall.

I don't understand why everyone is saying "Voight got away with it."  Yeah, he got away with the Bingham murder by getting Woods to fall for the bait.  But what about the cartel husband on the rooftop?  It's the same old story, killing a man when he was unprovoked.  Obviously it's going to be their word against his.  Who knows, maybe there likely will be some surveillance camera that captured it all.  Pretty dumb of him to do out in the open like that.  Let's see how long that storyline will drag on next year.

Happy to see Woods taken down because he was so smarmy.  But did the fake witness ever get him recorded doing the bribe?  I thought he checked for wires.  Just like how when Voight "confessed" to Woods about Bingham before he learned of Olinsky, if it wasn't on tape then the conversation never happened.  Couldn't Woods claim he doesn't know that woman?

I don't like that they've made Antonio the moral compass of the show.

[Xeliou66]

Antonio has always been the moral compass of the show IMO. I just don’t like how it seems Voight steamrolls everyone and no one will step up and put him in his place, it would be an interesting storyline if they had 1 or 2 of them blame Voight for Al’s death and resent him, but I bet Al will be forgotten about by the time season 6 comes around, as will Voight shooting the killer in front of 2 witnesses. The show has no sense of continuity or decent writing anymore. 

[CheshireCat]

33 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Antonio has always been the moral compass of the show IMO.

He always seemed like the "teacher's pet" to me during his time on fire. The guy would obey every single rule, no matter how tiny, ridiculous or what the circumstance. And then he all too happily benefited from Voight's methods when it concerned his own child. And then TPTB decided his wasn't a story they wanted to tell, and he was just there. So I find it really hard to know what kind of guy he really is. It seems, they never really gave him an identity.

[Kirkydee]

Next season will definitely be about the rooftop shooting. Those two guys saw Hank and they're telling everybody with a microphone.  The key is Antonio.  What did he say to the investigators?  If Antonio tells the truth the that should let hank off.  Don't forget there was a gun on him- no plant. Hank and Antonio can both say those 2 guys were far enough away to not get a great look at what exactly transpired. My prediction is there will be some camera that catches part of the action- and leave the other part up to interpretation. THAT part will get hank off

[Chas411]

3 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

He always seemed like the "teacher's pet" to me during his time on fire. The guy would obey every single rule, no matter how tiny, ridiculous or what the circumstance. And then he all too happily benefited from Voight's methods when it concerned his own child. And then TPTB decided his wasn't a story they wanted to tell, and he was just there. So I find it really hard to know what kind of guy he really is. It seems, they never really gave him an identity.

I haven't watched this season but I always felt Antonio was the moral compass until Jay took over. Jays moral centre was probably Moreso to put him at odds with Voight when it came to Erin though but it definetly felt more genuine then Antonio at times.

[stuckin60s]

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to put this comment.  In Blue Blood, the same thing happened to Danny.  He was accused of shooting an unarmed man.  The man had said he may or may not have a gun.  Pretended to shoot. Danny shot first.  They brought up every "over zealous" police action Danny had taken in the past towards this criminal.  Maybe these writers watch that show?

I guess if there wasn't any drama, we wouldn't be watching

[misstwpherecool]

On 5/14/2018 at 7:33 AM, greyhorse said:

Pretty sad that Olinsky's last words on the show were him mumbling "I got this..."  Seems like that was all he was mumbling the last several episodes.  They really wrote his character out of the show this year.  I suppose the writing was on the wall.

I don't understand why everyone is saying "Voight got away with it."  Yeah, he got away with the Bingham murder by getting Woods to fall for the bait.  But what about the cartel husband on the rooftop?  It's the same old story, killing a man when he was unprovoked.  Obviously it's going to be their word against his.  Who knows, maybe there likely will be some surveillance camera that captured it all.  Pretty dumb of him to do out in the open like that.  Let's see how long that storyline will drag on next year.

Happy to see Woods taken down because he was so smarmy.  But did the fake witness ever get him recorded doing the bribe?  I thought he checked for wires.  Just like how when Voight "confessed" to Woods about Bingham before he learned of Olinsky, if it wasn't on tape then the conversation never happened.  Couldn't Woods claim he doesn't know that woman?

I don't like that they've made Antonio the moral compass of the show.

I got this-did Al make a witness protection deal prior? Could that account for the sloppy death notification?

I only saw it once but the roof top shooting was sort of inconclusive because didn't they show it from Hank's point.  The prison interrogation beat down was rough to watch or know it was going on regardless. I was watching with a casual viewer and they were upset. It was very Vick Mackey. I thought that was harder to take than breaking the guys finger with pliers a few seasons ago.

Those who said Hank will suffer more losing Al than he will going to prison got it right .

[kixfan]

20 hours ago, misstwpherecool said:

I got this-did Al make a witness protection deal prior? Could that account for the sloppy death notification?

I only saw it once but the roof top shooting was sort of inconclusive because didn't they show it from Hank's point.  The prison interrogation beat down was rough to watch or know it was going on regardless. I was watching with a casual viewer and they were upset. It was very Vick Mackey. I thought that was harder to take than breaking the guys finger with pliers a few seasons ago.

Those who said Hank will suffer more losing Al than he will going to prison got it right .

The more I watch and read the more I wonder if Al is not dead. Eid spoke in an interview (Matt Carter?) about the season ending cliff hanger but there really wasn't one.  Al not being dead would explain the sloppy death notification to Hank. It would also explain why Meredith was at the jail and courtroom but not the hospital. Notification of death would have been provided to her.  The guard also mentioned prior to him being stabbed that he refused to go back to his cell early.  I know a couple of cast members have posted on IG but there comments are really pretty vague. Koteas is very private and low key so he would not spoil the cliff hanger. Several other cast members have not posted or made any comments on the situation.  They also didn't seem very upset about it during a recent tv guide interview. Leads me to believe that Al will be returning.

[TigerLynx]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:44 AM, Chas411 said:

I haven't watched this season but I always felt Antonio was the moral compass until Jay took over. Jays moral centre was probably Moreso to put him at odds with Voight when it came to Erin though but it definetly felt more genuine then Antonio at times.

Moral compass or not, I would think what happened to Al would give them all pause when it comes to going along with Voight's plans.

If Al is still alive, I wonder how that will get revealed next season.

[AjCammy]

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:56 PM, SuzieQ said:

What story do you think they are telling? 

Except for Voight and Olinsky, (who might have but we don't see the start of their careers) the whole team started out squeaky clean and now have sliding morals and no problem crossing the line, when it suits them.  Ruzek and Burgess not only cross it but are eager to in order to suck up to Hank.  Atwater is the only one who seems conflicted by it.  Antonio acts like the pillar of moral outrage but had no issues when they were saving his son.

 

That was cold!!  While watching it I thought "that's it??"

 

Did Antonio kill a person, cover it up, had another Intelligence member take the fall and get killed in jail to save his son? No he didn't do that. Antonio isn't obligated to agree with everything Voight does just because of his son. The Unit is already on a short leash when Erin took a gun and threatened a suspect and now with Voight having killed somebody, why should Antonio be a lap dog for Voight cause his and the team's job is also on the line. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by AjCammy

[CheshireCat]

37 minutes ago, AjCammy said:

The Unit is already on a short leash when Erin took a gun and threatened a suspect

 

So? Antonio threatened an informant with a knife and came this close to torturing information out of him when his son was kidnapped. If memory serves, he also stood by and watched Voight bully information out of at least one suspect in the cage.

Antonio may be the one who is the most harmless but no one on that team is above reproach.

Edited May 21, 2018 by CheshireCat

[greyhorse]

On ‎5‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 5:46 AM, kixfan said:

The more I watch and read the more I wonder if Al is not dead. Eid spoke in an interview (Matt Carter?) about the season ending cliff hanger but there really wasn't one.  Al not being dead would explain the sloppy death notification to Hank. It would also explain why Meredith was at the jail and courtroom but not the hospital. Notification of death would have been provided to her.  The guard also mentioned prior to him being stabbed that he refused to go back to his cell early.  I know a couple of cast members have posted on IG but there comments are really pretty vague. Koteas is very private and low key so he would not spoil the cliff hanger. Several other cast members have not posted or made any comments on the situation.  They also didn't seem very upset about it during a recent tv guide interview. Leads me to believe that Al will be returning.

I don't know.  I thought I read some interview where they said that Al is indeed dead and that Koteas took the news like a professional.  If he does return, then it would be a complete 180 from the direction they were going and it would mean the writers and TPTB had a change of heart.

I liked Al, but really this season he was so meh.  Never really involved in much.  His quiet, mumbling speech became very grating.  I get that they needed one of the old guard there who has the connection to Voight's past, and it's sad that there might not be one in the future.

[AjCammy]

4 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

So? Antonio threatened an informant with a knife and came this close to torturing information out of him when his son was kidnapped. If memory serves, he also stood by and watched Voight bully information out of at least one suspect in the cage.

Antonio may be the one who is the most harmless but no one on that team is above reproach.

Frankly, I don't think Antonio will betray Voight. He was given countless offers to run Intelligence and every time he declined. The first time was the ADA and then was the female commander. He even gave credit to Voight for helping him save his son. 

[SuzieQ]

6 hours ago, AjCammy said:

Did Antonio kill a person, cover it up, had another Intelligence member take the fall and get killed in jail to save his son? No he didn't do that. Antonio isn't obligated to agree with everything Voight does just because of his son. The Unit is already on a short leash when Erin took a gun and threatened a suspect and now with Voight having killed somebody, why should Antonio be a lap dog for Voight cause his and the team's job is also on the line. 

Who said that?

[AjCammy]

On 5/21/2018 at 11:26 PM, SuzieQ said:

Who said that?

All the people attacking Antonio for questioning Voight. 

[SuzieQ]

28 minutes ago, AjCammy said:

All the people attacking Antonio for questioning Voight. 

I guess it's subject to interpretation, but I don't see it as attacking him.  Most, myself included are just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy in his actions.  They ALL cross the line when it suits them.

[AjCammy]

16 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

I guess it's subject to interpretation, but I don't see it as attacking him.  Most, myself included are just pointing out the obvious hypocrisy in his actions.  They ALL cross the line when it suits them.

How is Antonio a hypocrite? Did Antonio kill the man who kidnap his son? The only reason why Antonio beat Ernesto is because he was being uncooperative in telling him where his son is. His son was found alive, pulpo was in jail. Antonio didn't take pulpo out of jail and murder him and cover it up. Do you remember when Antonio got shot and Voight and al took pulpo to the docks and told jay that he wants pulpo punished but not killed in cold blood? Why is Antonio wrong for that? Antonio is for fair justice but apparently that's wrong. 

[SuzieQ]

4 hours ago, AjCammy said:

How is Antonio a hypocrite? Did Antonio kill the man who kidnap his son? The only reason why Antonio beat Ernesto is because he was being uncooperative in telling him where his son is. His son was found alive, pulpo was in jail. Antonio didn't take pulpo out of jail and murder him and cover it up. Do you remember when Antonio got shot and Voight and al took pulpo to the docks and told jay that he wants pulpo punished but not killed in cold blood? Why is Antonio wrong for that? Antonio is for fair justice but apparently that's wrong. 

So what is your point?  If it's Antonio hasn't crossed the line as much as Voight, no one here is disputing that. But to act like he's above question is incorrect and frankly pretty naive.  

[Ailianna]

On 5/24/2018 at 5:46 AM, AjCammy said:

How is Antonio a hypocrite? Did Antonio kill the man who kidnap his son? The only reason why Antonio beat Ernesto is because he was being uncooperative in telling him where his son is. His son was found alive, pulpo was in jail. Antonio didn't take pulpo out of jail and murder him and cover it up. Do you remember when Antonio got shot and Voight and al took pulpo to the docks and told jay that he wants pulpo punished but not killed in cold blood? Why is Antonio wrong for that? Antonio is for fair justice but apparently that's wrong. 

And if Antonio's son hadn't been found alive?  What do you think he would have done then?  Because that's the difference in these scenarios of fathers using force against those who hurt their children.  One child lived, and one child died.  Do you think Antonio would have quietly submitted to putting him in jail if he killed his son?  I don't know and neither do you, since Antonio was never in that situation.  Not saying either ws right--just that the two situations aren't the same.

[MakeMeLaugh]

10 hours ago, Ailianna said:

And if Antonio's son hadn't been found alive?  What do you think he would have done then?  Because that's the difference in these scenarios of fathers using force against those who hurt their children.  One child lived, and one child died.  Do you think Antonio would have quietly submitted to putting him in jail if he killed his son?  I don't know and neither do you, since Antonio was never in that situation.  Not saying either ws right--just that the two situations aren't the same.

And this is why I detest all the “this time it’s personal” storylines. Voight is the same beat-the-crap out of them/ends justify the means person all the time; the other characters all have to have a relative-in-jeopardy (or lazy writer, as I call it) storyline about their sister (both Ruzek and Burgess), their daughter (Olinsky), their son (Antonio), their mentee and their mom (Lindsay), their little siblings (Atwater), their father (Platt) and boom their dark side comes out, but at least it’s understandable vs Voight’s behavior. This many personal vendettas are laughable, but the other characters and how they behave in these plot lines cannot be seen as Voight’s equal in despicability imo. 

[FnkyChkn34]

On 5/21/2018 at 5:15 PM, CheshireCat said:

 

Antonio may be the one who is the most harmless but no one on that team is above reproach.

Sorry, but Burgess is the most harmless.  IMO, she's not even believable as a cop, let alone one of Voight's groupies.  

[SnarkySheep]

On 5/15/2018 at 3:44 AM, Chas411 said:

I haven't watched this season but I always felt Antonio was the moral compass until Jay took over. Jays moral centre was probably Moreso to put him at odds with Voight when it came to Erin though but it definetly felt more genuine then Antonio at times.

This. Jay IMO was the perfect mix...definitely no teacher's pet but very clearly aware of (and more importantly willing to defend) the line between right and wrong. Amidst all Jay's personal issues this season, we kind of stepped away from that.

[AjCammy]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:42 AM, Ailianna said:

And if Antonio's son hadn't been found alive?  What do you think he would have done then?  Because that's the difference in these scenarios of fathers using force against those who hurt their children.  One child lived, and one child died.  Do you think Antonio would have quietly submitted to putting him in jail if he killed his son?  I don't know and neither do you, since Antonio was never in that situation.  Not saying either ws right--just that the two situations aren't the same.

You raise a good point. Antonio didn’t lose his son but Voight did. Can’t really compare the two.