S06.E07: Harvest

[Bannon]

54 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

I think it's now too late for Phil to go to Stan and flip. IMO, Stan has crossed the point of no return. How can he explain how he has been suspicious of these killers of FBI agents for more than six years but never did anything about it? He has begun to investigate them. His superiors could never tolerate that he is suspicious and has begun to investigate but still did nothing to prevent them from killing FBI agents. I can't imagine Stan having any kind of career in the FBI if that ever becomes known.

I'm surprised Bannon has not criticized the writing in this episode. Screw all the half-assed searching of their house. All Stan had to do was make a phone call to the airlines and check whether P & E really did fly to Houston. Once he learned they flew to Chicago, it would all be over. I'm going to take a shot at the writing this episode.

Bad writing. Bad premise. All it would take is one phone call to the airlines. WTH?

It seems like such an easy and simple premise to me for any investigator. If you are suspicious of someone - even just a tiny bit suspicious - just double check all the details about them that is easy to check. If anything doesn't pan out, then you can go further. But it's just so bad to not even take ten minutes to check what can be checked in ten  minutes. I have never before been seriously angry about the writing. But this just seems like terrible writing to me. Why wouldn't Stand call the airlines to check the details if he had even the slightest suspicion of his very bestest buddy?

Oh. It was pretty stupid, all right. Ya' know, when it gets to the point that you are breaking and entering into your neighbor's house for the 2nd time, maybe, just maybe, you instead do a dive into the neighbor's life. If only Stan worked at a job that facilitated such an action.....good grief, for the love of Sherlock Holmes, that's ridiculous. Yeah, that Stan...he sure has great instincts......NOT!!!

On a positive note, the set piece to spring Harvest did't have any "let's not cover the fire escape" whoppers, although I could do without FBI agents, knowing they are looking for highly murderous illegals, not having their weapons immediately drawn, as they tried stop a van.

Also in the positive column was the scene with our dying artist. Terrific writing and acting. Shame she hasn't had more scenes.

Less positively, the dialogue between Paige and Liz was awful,  but predictably so, since the decision was made to make Paige an idiot. Yeah, the State Department is just dying to have interns who are utterly ignorant of basic world history. The whole scene didn't make any sense. Liz has been slaughtering like Rambo on a meth binge for weeks, pretty much right in front of Paige, and Paige is still dumb as a post. "How did Chicago go, Mom"? "Gee, I dunno daughter, did ya' see the lead story in the national news about two FBI agents shot dead, in an operation the FBI wouldn't give details on? What a coincidence, huh? Kinda like those security guards who committed suicide the night we were over there."

Rhys and Russell were good as always, so there was that.

[anonymiss]

3 hours ago, Erin9 said:

 I really don’t buy Philip suddenly leaving as being the big light bulb moment for Stan. But okay.

3 hours ago, Maire said:

So what triggered Stan? That the Jennings are away (again?)Doesn't  seem like that's a big enough change to wake him up.  

2 hours ago, zibnchy said:

Only 3 more episodes. :-)

I'm so disappointed. I now agree--this is unconvincing, lazy writing. I expected a lot better from people paid to do this. Why is it rushed, forced, and contrived? They were supposed to have masterfully planned this defining moment and the entire last season could have helped to execute something spectacular instead all I recall it developed was Paige coming to terms with Pastor fucking Tim! (And a single meaningful scene for P&E that took the entire season of filler to get to.)

I guess P&E are the only white couple that travelled at that time and E is the only "pretty," unsuspecting white woman around. Stan shouldn't have jumped to his closest friend and wife immediately--it really needed more than what Henry said and the aforementioned to go from blind trust of his bestie to immediate investigation. (I also thought it was unbelievable in the pilot.)

I forgot to mention it but that last scene with Paige cements it: Holly Taylor is a really poor actress. She's almost as incompetent as Jessica Pare and just as annoying as she tries to make up for lack of ability by speaking as slowly as possible. She should have been on a CW teen show at best and would have been the weak link there, too. It's also absurd that Paige has never had a single friend in her entire existence except the person converting her to Christianity.

Edited May 10, 2018 by anonymiss

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

Oops. Maybe I was off base. But surely an FBI agent could double check with the airlines to see if P & E really flew to Houston? At least to find out where they really did fly? I can't believe it wouldn't be fairly easy for an FBI agent to check where they flew. Wouldn't it?

It started to become difficult to fly under an assumed name in the mid 90s, when they started to check IDs. I know because I occasionally would fly under a different name (it's a long story) and had to stop. What's ridiculous is that Stan is doing B&E, instead of an hour or two of actual investigation.

[jjj]

Wow, Henry actually grew a pair in this episode-- not in the conversation with Stan, but when he blew off Philip on the phone.  Henry has always been so easygoing, but he turned tonight. 

Philip got some information for Oleg from Harvest, plus more from Elizabeth about Mexico, although I think Oleg knew she had been there.  I'm not at all clear what Oleg would do with the information about the sensors. 

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, Cardie said:

And, as travel agents, they probably also ticketed themselves to Houston under their Philip and Elizabeth names. They could have then put a pair of their spy cell operatives on the plane under those names.

Exactly.  Who knows though, I suppose they could have been sloppy this time, but they haven't remained uncaught all these years to suddenly start being sloppy, especially when they told Stan they were going to Houston.  It's hard to imagine they would commit such a stupid error.  They aren't Paige.

Granny was aware of at least Elizabeth going, so it is a safe bet she had someone use that ticket, and Philip would just need to make a phone call to ensure his was used.

I'll be bummed if it comes down to that, because honestly, that's not an error I could see even rusty Philip doing.

3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

It started to become difficult to fly under an assumed name in the mid 90s, when they started to check IDs. I know because I occasionally would fly under a different name (it's a long story) and had to stop. What's ridiculous is that Stan is doing B&E, instead of an hour or two of actual investigation.

It was a perfect chance for Stan though, he knew NO one was home, or likely to be home during that search.

He headed to the office, right?  So he's probably doing both.

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Exactly.  Who knows though, I suppose they could have been sloppy this time, but they haven't remained uncaught all these years to suddenly start being sloppy, especially when they told Stan they were going to Houston.  It's hard to imagine they would commit such a stupid error.  They aren't Paige.

Granny was aware of at least Elizabeth going, so it is a safe bet she had someone use that ticket, and Philip would just need to make a phone call to ensure his was used.

I'll be bummed if it comes down to that, because honestly, that's not an error I could see even rusty Philip doing.

Phil and Liz's  cover can't last a day, if Stan actually has suspicions, and acts like an FBI agent with an IQ above 90.

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Exactly.  Who knows though, I suppose they could have been sloppy this time, but they haven't remained uncaught all these years to suddenly start being sloppy, especially when they told Stan they were going to Houston.  It's hard to imagine they would commit such a stupid error.  They aren't Paige.

Granny was aware of at least Elizabeth going, so it is a safe bet she had someone use that ticket, and Philip would just need to make a phone call to ensure his was used.

I'll be bummed if it comes down to that, because honestly, that's not an error I could see even rusty Philip doing.

It was a perfect chance for Stan though, he knew NO one was home, or likely to be home during that search.

He headed to the office, right?  So he's probably doing both.

Yes, and if anybody were to find out, it would jeapordize the entire case against Phil and Liz. It didn't make a lot of sense in the 1st episode, and it makes less sense now. Getting search warrants on an illegal's house is not hard, if they are illegals. Their covers simply do not survive scrutiny. It's a few hours of phone work, even in the 80s.

[Umbelina]

It was impulsive, but no one will know Stan did it.  If he'd found something, he would try the other steps to get a search warrant and he'd cover his ass that way, not admitting to anyone that would tell that he'd gone in without a search warrant.  He also may not want to look like a fool for suspecting his neighbors.

As their close friend and neighbor, he could also make something up, a suspicious movement he saw, or wrong light on, when he knew they were out of town.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Umbelina
fool not food

[Bannon]

17 minutes ago, anonymiss said:

I'm so disappointed. I now agree--this is unconvincing, lazy writing. I expected a lot better from people paid to do this. Why is it rushed, forced, and contrived? They were supposed to have masterfully planned this defining moment and the entire last season could have helped to execute something spectacular instead all I recall it developed was Paige coming to terms with Pastor fucking Tim! (And a single meaningful scene for P&E that took the entire season of filler to get to.)

I guess P&E are the only white couple that travelled at that time and E is the only "pretty," unsuspecting white woman around. Stan shouldn't have jumped to his closest friend and wife immediately--it really needed more than what Henry said and the aforementioned to go from blind trust of his bestie to immediate investigation. (I also thought it was unbelievable in the pilot.)

I forgot to mention it but that last scene with Paige cements it: Holly Taylor is a really poor actress. She's almost as incompetent as Jessica Pare and just as annoying as she tries to make up for lack of ability by speaking as slowly as possible. She should have been on a CW teen show at best and would have been the weak link there, too. It's also absurd that Paige has never had a single friend in her entire existence except the person converting her to Christianity.

Yeah, the writers do Taylor absolutely no favors, so I try to cut some slack, but her scene tonight was just painful. The facial expressions and line delivery was just awful. However, again,  even a really good actor would be in a tough spot, given how the character has been written.

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

It was impulsive, but no one will know Stan did it.  If he'd found something, he would try the other steps to get a search warrant and he'd cover his ass that way, not admitting to anyone that would tell that he'd gone in without a search warrant.  He also may not want to look like a food for suspecting his neighbors.

As their close friend and neighbor, he could also make something up, a suspicious movement he saw, or wrong light on, when he knew they were out of town.

Every person who has ever been caught doing a B&E has thought no one will know. That's why you don't do them, unless you really, really have to. Stan doesn't have to. There literally is not any reason in the world to do this. Why write Stan as a half wit? So we can have a scene of him going through a darkened house? Eh, I know many will differ, but it doesn't work for me at all.

[Umbelina]

All he would have to do if a neighbor did see, was flash his badge at the black and white cops, and they'd be gone.  He could have several believable stories to cover his ass, but the truth is, he lives there, he knows that neighborhood, and he was extremely unlikely to be reported going into that backyard, which he does all the time as Philip's buddy.

The only problematic part for Stan might have been tainted evidence, but since they are definitely not US citizens, I don't think that would even hold up in a court of law.   If he found something, he'd find another way to get a search warrant, not go on that.

I agree with you that he took a chance, just not that he didn't have half a dozen believable ways to get out of it without a problem.  It WAS impulsive, but I don't think it was risky.

I do wonder if part of it is avoiding another scene as he had with his wife the first time he broke into their house.  Would Aderholt think he'd lost it, the same way his wife did?  How much was his relationship with Philip a part of it?

Oh, and spies break into places all the time, at least the CIA does, according to Robert Baer, former CIA station chief.  Does the FBI?  Probably, they would be unlikely to admit that though.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Umbelina

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

All he would have to do if a neighbor did see, was flash his badge at the black and white cops, and they'd be gone.  He could have several believable stories to cover his ass, but the truth is, he lives there, he knows that neighborhood, and he was extremely unlikely to be reported going into that backyard, which he does all the time as Philip's buddy.

The only problematic part for Stan might have been tainted evidence, but since they are definitely not US citizens, I don't think that would even hold up in a court of law. 

I agree with you that he took a chance, just not that he didn't have half a dozen believable ways to get out of it without a problem.  It WAS impulsive, but I don't think it was risky.

We aren't going to agree about this. There is not an FBI Agent alive who would engage in this activity, in these circumstances, when getting needed evidence would be so utterly easy to obtain, by completely legal means. The only way to explain that there are three episodes left is by Stan once again being written very poorly.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Bannon

[Bannon]

Phil and Liz's cover are even worse that what has to be the case for illegals, in that they have to have obtained U.S. passports, given they run a travel agency. Because they have obtained passports, the birth certificate information they used to get them will be on file with the State Department. It really shouldn't take more than a half day to blow their cover.

25 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

 

Oh, and spies break into places all the time, at least the CIA does, according to Robert Baer, former CIA station chief.  Does the FBI?  Probably, they would be unlikely to admit that though.

I didn't write that the FBI wouldn't do a B&E. I wrote that they wouldn't in this circumstance, because there is no need for it.

[Ellaria]

2 hours ago, KarenX said:

But Elizabeth’s life is so small and her perspective so limited and her creativity so stifled she couldn’t even make one suggestion. Instead, she gave Paige another order to follow, because that is all she knows how to do.

This is an excellent observation. And that scene is particularly interesting - and perhaps a bit too on the nose - when it comes in an episode where Henry shares his observations about his parents (and their parenting style) with Stan. 

3 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I think it's now too late for Phil to go to Stan and flip. IMO, Stan has crossed the point of no return. How can he explain how he has been suspicious of these killers of FBI agents for more than six years but never did anything about it? He has begun to investigate them. His superiors could never tolerate that he is suspicious and has begun to investigate but still did nothing to prevent them from killing FBI agents. I can't imagine Stan having any kind of career in the FBI if that ever becomes known....

...Bad writing. Bad premise. All it would take is one phone call to the airlines. WTH?...

...Why wouldn't Stand call the airlines to check the details if he had even the slightest suspicion of his very bestest buddy?

 

I suspected that this was how it would happen with Stan, largely because we are running out of time. All we needed was an actual light bulb over his head to go on. Logically, yes, the first thing to do would have been to call the airlines. The show needed us to see him stalking thru P&E’s house looking for clues. It was done for dramatic tension and it worked. However, not for one minute did I expect him to find anything of worth. P&E are too good. After all, they threw away perfectly good leftover beef stew.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[kokapetl]

I assumed that Philip and Elizabeth’s stolen dead ID’s were extra special. Like, both parents dead, and they were also only children of only children. Plus they planted plenty of Aunt Helens. 

RIP Marilyn and Gay Hero of the Soviet Union.

[BingeyKohan]

No Renee this week. Though I’m convinced that they made one of the cars in the Harvest traffic jam resemble Renee’s to mess with us, the way they put a Martha lookalike on a bench outside the sad Russian supermarket that one time, as if to prepare us subliminally to see the real Martha inside. (Cars and car descriptions are getting to be so important!)

Spoiler

The S6 trailer, tho, showed a car like Renee’s being headed off and stopped, which we didn’t see in Chicago. Maybe the FBI does a city-wide sting stopping cars paid for with cash and hers turns out to be one, which we don’t know until they go up and have her roll down her window. She just says gee guys I’m married to Stan Beeman! Nothing to see here!

Next week I’d love to see Elizabeth having to play both of Erica’s nurses to cover for the dead Marilyn/Colleen (RIP headless Marileen. Good luck throwing shade at Julie with no hands!) She ends one shift in her frizzy-wigged artist’s protege persona and comes back in as Colleen the foot masseuse. Maybe that’s why she told Philip she’d see him the next day ‘if I’m lucky.’

Seriously, though, I am literally hanging on every word they say these days. Even though the words they said this episode didn’t get us that far down the road. I think the most important ones were Stan recalling the failed Philly operation to Dennis, dying Harvest mentioning the whereabouts of the sensor schematic, and Paige resolving to apply at State. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by BingeyKohan

[Ina123]

The first thing Stan asked after they said white male, white woman...pretty woman was, "Are there sketches?"

 

Just for clarity, we have four necklaces:

(1) The search of Martha's apt found the necklace that Phillip gave her. Phillip needed something quick to give her to appease her when she got shakey about their relationship. Elizabeth handed him one of her necklaces to give to her...a heart

(2) Harvest and Elizabeth had/has cyanide necklace. I'm not sure but I thought I saw Phillip put Harvest's cyanide necklace in the bag that went into the lake

(3)  The cross necklace was in Paige's room. Stan saw it during the search

[mwell345]

Paige: "I want to do something that makes a difference"

Peace Corp, Habitat for Humanity, Teaching, Volunteer work, VISTA.......hmmmm

Russian Spy - Got it!

Edited May 10, 2018 by mwell345

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Every person who has ever been caught doing a B&E has thought no one will know. That's why you don't do them, unless you really, really have to. Stan doesn't have to. There literally is not any reason in the world to do this. Why write Stan as a half wit? So we can have a scene of him going through a darkened house? Eh, I know many will differ, but it doesn't work for me at all.

You are in rare form tonight.

I'm really going to miss reading your posts in three weeks.  It is very unlikely there will ever be another show that is fun to watch but will be as badly written as this one has been.

[OoogleEyes]

You guys have such good memories! I think that I'm going to binge watch the entire series prior to the finale 

[becauseIsaidso]

I've always suspected Renee may be under deep cover with the sole mission of stopping Stan from discovering/revealing/arresting P&E - and that she's to do it any way she can. I first started thinking along these lines when she expressed an interest in becoming an agent - how better to know when to strike than to get the info OTJ? She did seem to cool off rather quickly after Stan followed up on his initial rejection of her idea on the basis of her being over the age limit by suggesting some short time later that there were other positions at the bureau she could do. I think her subsequent application and (IIRC) going in for an interview was simply tying up a loose end.

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

This is an excellent observation. And that scene is particularly interesting - and perhaps a bit too on the nose - when it comes in an episode where Henry shares his observations about his parents (and their parenting style) with Stan. 

I suspected that this was how it would happen with Stan, largely because we are running out of time. All we needed was an actual light bulb over his head to go on. Logically, yes, the first thing to do would have been to call the airlines. The show needed us to see him stalking thru P&E’s house looking for clues. It was done for dramatic tension and it worked. However, not for one minute did I expect him to find anything of worth. P&E are too good. After all, they threw away perfectly good leftover beef stew.

 

 

I LOL'd at your line about the beef stew. I hardly ever do that any more.

But I wanted to tell you that I got more emotion out of your post than I got from the entire scene with Paige last night.

Also, I think Anonymiss really nailed all this debate about the actor who plays Paige. That was a very enjoyable read.

Edited May 10, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Ina123 said:

(2) Harvest and Elizabeth had/has cyanide necklace. I'm not sure but I thought I saw Phillip put Harvest's cyanide necklace in the bag that went into the lake

Yes - Philip put Harvest's necklace into that bag. Elizabeth's Chekhov's necklace looms large.

 

42 minutes ago, mwell345 said:

Paige: "I want to do something that makes a difference"

Peace Corp, Habitat for Humanity, Teaching, Volunteer work, VISTA.......hmmmm

Russian Spy - Got it!

Thank you!

 

5 hours ago, anonymiss said:

Why is it rushed, forced, and contrived? They were supposed to have masterfully planned this defining moment and the entire last season could have helped to execute something spectacular instead all I recall it developed was Paige coming to terms with Pastor fucking Tim! (And a single meaningful scene for P&E that took the entire season of filler to get to.)

Well said! Its also because they spent way too much time with Renee and the "is she or isn't she" nonsense rather than on Stan himself. With three episodes left, there is no time for her to be anything but Stan's loving, energetic wife. Maybe her comments about working for the FBI served to re-dedicate him to the cause. 

[MisterBluxom]

28 minutes ago, OoogleEyes said:

You guys have such good memories! I think that I'm going to binge watch the entire series prior to the finale 

You must have a much stronger constitution than I do if you will be able to stand all the awful music. I must admit there were some really excellent choices - especially "Tusk" by Fleetwood Mac in the very first episode. I think that was what got me hooked in the first place. Then watching Keri Russel and  Matthew Rhys sealed the deal for me. They are so great in these roles.

But what was that horrible dirge they played towards the end of this episode? All I remember is that it was played during the time P & E drove to that body of water (maybe Lake Michigan?) where E dumped that bag containing the body parts. I had never heard that music before and I'll be happy if I never hear it again. I'd just like to know what it was.

Edited May 10, 2018 by MissBluxom

[JFParnell]

MORE, please. Not that last night's ep was perfect by any stretch, but at least there was ... oh, dang, what's the word? ... action. (Lookin' at you with that remark, season 5...)

Did you all cringe when Philip first noticed the axe? "Uh oh, here we go!" I think I'd almost rather see more high-def puking. They certainly showed us how that went, in detail. We learned that heads don't sever as easily as hands. It reminded me of a line from Person of Interest, where CIA boss lady tells Reese to dispose of two traitors and adds, "No teeth. No fingertips."

It only took him 5.7 seasons, but Stan is finally listening to his inner G-Man voice. It would have been nice if his impromptu break-in had yielded something to show us and make us go "Oooohhhh!" but I suppose it's a start for the big lug to at least be suspicious of his neighbors. (I wonder if Stan even knows that he has only 3 hours left to solve the whole thing?)

Thanks to @Ina123 above for clarifying the necklaces that are still out there. Forgot about the Martha necklace!

Sigh. Pounding head against nearest wall. Paige will just never get it, the way they have painted the character anyway. She's an empty vessel. She was more believable as a joinee of Pastor Tim's church than she has ever been as a spy-in-training.

Where on earth are they going with Henry?

I think Philip has his eye on the cyanide, for himself! Rough week for him. *Another* rough week! Will be interesting to see what they do with him in these final eps. Will he ever line dance again in his cowboy boots? My hope is he grabs Henry and Paige, mercy-kills Elizabeth, and steals off to South America, where he will rendezvous with Oleg and his wife, and new buds Philip and Oleg will open a bar called "Perestroika." (Hmm, a bit too on-the-nose?)

Artist lady was good once again; that actress is nailing it. 

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Yes - Philip put Harvest's necklace into that bag. Elizabeth's Chekhov's necklace looms large.

 

Thank you!

 

Well said! Its also because they spent way too much time with Renee and the "is she or isn't she" nonsense rather than on Stan himself. With three episodes left, there is no time for her to be anything but Stan's loving, energetic wife. Maybe her comments about working for the FBI served to re-dedicate him to the cause. 

Maybe Renee will turn out to be a deep cover agent for EST, sent to get Stan into the fold as deeply as Phil! Either that, or she is an illegal for Amway. Stan'll get suspicious when she asks if they can add a very large storage shed to the backyard, and when he asks Renee why she wants one, Renee will say. "Oh, I dunno, maybe we'd like to have a couple of tons of cleaning products and vitamins on hand. Do you want to hear of a great opportunity?"

[Ina123]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

The reason Paige doesn't have any friends, is because

she's smug and self-righteous. I wouldn't want her for a friend either.

[SunnyBeBe]

29 minutes ago, becauseIsaidso said:

I've always suspected Renee may be under deep cover with the sole mission of stopping Stan from discovering/revealing/arresting P&E - and that she's to do it any way she can. I first started thinking along these lines when she expressed an interest in becoming an agent - how better to know when to strike than to get the info OTJ? She did seem to cool off rather quickly after Stan followed up on his initial rejection of her idea on the basis of her being over the age limit by suggesting some short time later that there were other positions at the bureau she could do. I think her subsequent application and (IIRC) going in for an interview was simply tying up a loose end.

That's really interesting, but, why would P & E not be aware of this information, if she is there as their protector? I've always wondered why P & E didn't have a boatload of a case (photos, recordings, etc.) just ready and waiting to expose Stan, if he tried to expose them. With everything they would have on Stan, it could appear that he is working WITH the Russians. Of course, he's P's friend, so there's that.....lol.  I would just think that as dull as Stan is, he still must know that exposing P & E, would bring all kinds of scrutiny on him and destroy his career, not enhance it. So, if the writers just overlook that fact, I'll be insulted.  Then, there's the taint of evidence if found illegally, but, I guess the FBI didn't pay much attention to things like that back then. lol

I thought it was a pretty good episode, but, my expectations are low at this point. How did the 2 FBI agents who got killed know exactly where to go to find that vehicle? I know the car following Harvest gave out some descriptions, but, how would they know their direct path of travel, once out of his sight?  

When E and Paige are walking along the sidewalk, was  that car that pulled out of the parking garage watching them?  Neither of them seemed to notice.

When P arrived in Chicago and they laid down in the bed, E reached over to P.....I thought, man, P must be thinking, "The things a spy husband has to do in order to get laid."  lol 

Edited May 10, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[MisterBluxom]

9 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

MORE, please. Not that last night's ep was perfect by any stretch, but at least there was ... oh, dang, what's the word? ... action. (Lookin' at you with that remark, season 5...)

Did you all cringe when Philip first noticed the axe? "Uh oh, here we go!" I think I'd almost rather see more high-def puking. They certainly showed us how that went, in detail. We learned that heads don't sever as easily as hands. It reminded me of a line from Person of Interest, where CIA boss lady tells Reese to dispose of two traitors and adds, "No teeth. No fingertips."

It only took him 5.7 seasons, but Stan is finally listening to his inner G-Man voice. It would have been nice if his impromptu break-in had yielded something to show us and make us go "Oooohhhh!" but I suppose it's a start for the big lug to at least be suspicious of his neighbors. (I wonder if Stan even knows that he has only 3 hours left to solve the whole thing?)

Thanks to @Ina123 above for clarifying the necklaces that are still out there. Forgot about the Martha necklace!

Sigh. Pounding head against nearest wall. Paige will just never get it, the way they have painted the character anyway. She's an empty vessel. She was more believable as a joinee of Pastor Tim's church than she has ever been as a spy-in-training.

Where on earth are they going with Henry?

I think Philip has his eye on the cyanide, for himself! Rough week for him. *Another* rough week! Will be interesting to see what they do with him in these final eps. Will he ever line dance again in his cowboy boots? My hope is he grabs Henry and Paige, mercy-kills Elizabeth, and steals off to South America, where he will rendezvous with Oleg and his wife, and new buds Philip and Oleg will open a bar called "Perestroika." (Hmm, a bit too on-the-nose?)

Artist lady was good once again; that actress is nailing it. 

I'm not the brightest shed in the bulb ... but I don't recall ever seeing you post before.

You should post more often.

Edited May 10, 2018 by MissBluxom

[benteen]

Very good episode until Paige showed up.  Ugh, she is the worst.  Guzzling the Kool-Aid that Elizabeth is giving her by the gallons and it's not a surprise she doesn't have any friends.  Both her and Elizabeth are terrible...Elizabeth is again confronted with the terrible consequences of the life that she's chosen and she still helps her daughter consign her life to it.

The opening scene with Philip and Stan was excellent and I'm glad Stan is finally suspicious.  However, I can't help but wonder if Stan finally realizing things feels organic or if it's just happening because the script says its time for it to start happening.  I knew he wouldn't find anything in Philip and Elizabeth's home though...that's one area where the two have been way too careful to allow someone to stumble onto something inside.

The mission was definitely exciting and they don't shy away from the more grizzly elements.  Definitely the strongest part of the episode.

Another body part washing up in Chicago...just another day.

Poor artist...she actually makes you feel the pain that she is going through.

Fantastic acting as always.

Edited May 10, 2018 by benteen

[Ina123]

20 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Well said! Its also because they spent way too much time with Renee and the "is she or isn't she" nonsense rather than on Stan himself. With three episodes left, there is no time for her to be anything but Stan's loving, energetic wife. Maybe her comments about working for the FBI served to re-dedicate him to the cause. 

I think this board "spent way too much time with Renee and the "is she or isn't she"" LOL

I also think Stan just needed a spouse. (As I've posted before), If she is used for anything I think it would be fitting for her to walk into FBI HQ on her first day at work and see the sketches and say. "Hey, that's Elizabeth and Phillip!" I would LMAO!

[becauseIsaidso]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That's really interesting, but, why would P & E not be aware of this information, if she is there as their protector? I've always wondered why P & E didn't have a boatload of a case (photos, recordings, etc.) just ready and waiting to expose Stan, if he tried to expose them. With everything they would have on Stan, it could appear that he is working WITH the Russians. Of course, he's P's friend, so there's that.....lol.  I would just think that as dull as Stan is, he still must know that exposing P & E, would bring all kinds of scrutiny on him and destroy his career, not enhance it. So, if the writers just overlook that fact, I'll be insulted.  Then, there's the taint of evidence if found illegally, but, I guess the FBI didn't pay much attention to things like that back then. lol

I thought it was a pretty good episode, but, my expectations are low at this point. How did the 2 FBI agents who got killed know exactly where to go to find that vehicle? I know the car following Harvest gave out some descriptions, but, how would they know their direct path of travel, once out of his sight?  

When E and Paige are walking along the sidewalk, was  that car that pulled out watching them?  Neither of them seemed too notice.

When P arrived in Chicago and they laid down in the bed, E reached over to P.....I thought, man, P must be thinking, "The things a spy husband has to do in order to get laid."  lol 

I think not telling P&E about Renee being deep cover would be the best way to prevent anyone's cover from being accidentally blown by the other. IIRC, P &/or E were either shown asking Claudia about Renee or referring to having asked her - which Claudia would most certainly have denied in any event. No matter how stupid Stan seems to be now, he did enter the show as having just spent 3 years in deep cover with a white supremacist group, so he knows the drill AND what the consequences could be. I keep thinking there HAS to be a reason he was given that particular back story.

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

MORE, please. Not that last night's ep was perfect by any stretch, but at least there was ... oh, dang, what's the word? ... action. (Lookin' at you with that remark, season 5...)

Did you all cringe when Philip first noticed the axe? "Uh oh, here we go!" I think I'd almost rather see more high-def puking. They certainly showed us how that went, in detail. We learned that heads don't sever as easily as hands. It reminded me of a line from Person of Interest, where CIA boss lady tells Reese to dispose of two traitors and adds, "No teeth. No fingertips."

It only took him 5.7 seasons, but Stan is finally listening to his inner G-Man voice. It would have been nice if his impromptu break-in had yielded something to show us and make us go "Oooohhhh!" but I suppose it's a start for the big lug to at least be suspicious of his neighbors. (I wonder if Stan even knows that he has only 3 hours left to solve the whole thing?)

Thanks to @Ina123 above for clarifying the necklaces that are still out there. Forgot about the Martha necklace!

Sigh. Pounding head against nearest wall. Paige will just never get it, the way they have painted the character anyway. She's an empty vessel. She was more believable as a joinee of Pastor Tim's church than she has ever been as a spy-in-training.

Where on earth are they going with Henry?

I think Philip has his eye on the cyanide, for himself! Rough week for him. *Another* rough week! Will be interesting to see what they do with him in these final eps. Will he ever line dance again in his cowboy boots? My hope is he grabs Henry and Paige, mercy-kills Elizabeth, and steals off to South America, where he will rendezvous with Oleg and his wife, and new buds Philip and Oleg will open a bar called "Perestroika." (Hmm, a bit too on-the-nose?)

Artist lady was good once again; that actress is nailing it. 

I really wish our dying artist had more or longer scenes with Elizabeth. It's far and away the best element of this season, and such a great way for Liz to take a stab ( ooh, probably not the best figure of speech to use when discussing her!) at introspection.

[Ina123]

9 minutes ago, becauseIsaidso said:

How did the 2 FBI agents who got killed know exactly where to go to find that vehicle? I know the car following Harvest gave out some descriptions, but, how would they know their direct path of travel, once out of his sight?  

They didn't know exactly. The FBI set up a perimeter in the area. It's standard police procedure. (I watch way too much LivePD).

I can understand Stan's thought processes in the B & E of the house. His ass is on the line because they have been living in plain sight across the street. He was hoping to find some tangible proof before he makes this wild accusation.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Ina123

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

They didn't know exactly. The FBI set up a perimeter in the area. It's standard police procedure.

I can understand Stan's thought processes in the B & E of the house. His ass is on the line because they have been living in plain sight across the street. He was hoping to find some tangible proof before he makes this wild accusation.

He doesn't need to make a wild accusation. He needs to call the State Department, ask for the details on the birth certificate that Phil supplied to get a passport, then make a few more phone calls. He'd have the show wrapped up before lunch the next day. 

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

He doesn't need to make a wild accusation. He needs to call the State Department, ask for the details on the birth certificate that Phil supplied to get a passport, then make a few more phone calls. He'd have the show wrapped up before lunch the next day. 

Yeah, but, don't you think he must have some trepidation about exposing his BEST FRIEND?  lol  I mean, it makes Stan look like a fool at best and an accomplice at worst.

Oh, why would P say that they should FLUSH THE POISON DOWN THE TOILET?   Isn't that very unsafe?  Could poison a lot of people by going into water system.

AND, what self-respecting SPY doesn't have a security system in their home so they can detect when it has been entered?  

[Ina123]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

He doesn't need to make a wild accusation. He needs to call the State Department, ask for the details on the birth certificate that Phil supplied to get a passport, then make a few more phone calls. He'd have the show wrapped up before lunch the next day. 

I can agree with that.

However, once he starts making inquiries, it's out there and will get a ball rolling. Others will sniff it out and if he's wrong, he looks like a fool.

Yes, that's what he should do, but he's afraid he's wrong and would love to have something before he sticks his neck out. He knows that if he's right he is going to be a laughing stock at work. "Congratulations, Stan. It only took you 6 years to connect the dots."

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, but, don't you think he must have some trepidation about exposing his BEST FRIEND?  lol  I mean, it makes Stan look like a fool at best and an accomplice at worst.

 

You said it better than I did.

[benteen]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, but, don't you think he must have some trepidation about exposing his BEST FRIEND?  lol  I mean, it makes Stan look like a fool at best and an accomplice at worst.

Oh, why would P say that they should FLUSH THE POISON DOWN THE TOILET?   Isn't that very unsafe?  Could poison a lot of people by going into water system.

AND, what self-respecting SPY doesn't have a security system in their home so they can detect when it has been entered?  

Very true.  There's the personal angle with Philip plus if Philip and Elizabeth are spies, Stan's career is likely over.

Edited May 10, 2018 by benteen

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, but, don't you think he must have some trepidation about exposing his BEST FRIEND?  lol  I mean, it makes Stan look like a fool at best and an accomplice at worst.

Oh, why would P say that they should FLUSH THE POISON DOWN THE TOILET?   Isn't that very unsafe?  Could poison a lot of people by going into water system.

AND, what self-respecting SPY doesn't have a security system in their home so they can detect when it has been entered?  

To be sure, Phil and Liz really ought to have something in place, as a tell that their home has been secretly searched.  

Don't know how much cyanide you'd need to put in a sewer system before it becomes an environmental problem. I suspect one pill isn't a disaster.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 minute ago, Ina123 said:

I can agree with that.

However, once he starts making inquiries, it's out there and will get a ball rolling. Others will sniff it out and if he's wrong, he looks like a fool.

Yes, that's what he should do, but he's afraid he's wrong and would love to have something before he sticks his neck out. He knows that if he's right he is going to be a laughing stock at work. "Congratulations, Stan. It only took you 6 years to connect the dots."

To me, if he's right about P & E, he looks like a fool.  I mean, how could he have been so blind for so long and have embraced these  illegals into his home for holidays and considered them family and not know? It's just too bizarre, imo. (By the way was Matthew mentioned by Stan at Thanksgiving?). 

[qtpye]

9 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Stan finally gets his “Leaves of Grass” moment. I don’t know what finally shoved him over the edge but it made for some riveting scenes.

Poor Sad Philip...this was it for him. The first thing he did when walking thru the door was call Henry (for the final time?) only to get blown off. There is nothing good  left in his life. I am dreading what he does next. Philip is just a ruined man. MR conveys in every scene; he is a remarkable actor.

Alternatively, I am much less invested in Elizabeth and where this destructive path leads here.

Ugh...Paige. Committing your life to a cause that you don’t understand is not going to end well. Why do they keep telling us that she doesn’t have friends? I’m so tired of our little sad sack. 

Where is Oleg? I am missing him.

Otherwise, this was a brilliant but depressing episode. 

 

7 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I think it's now too late for Phil to go to Stan and flip. IMO, Stan has crossed the point of no return. How can he explain how he has been suspicious of these killers of FBI agents for more than six years but never did anything about it? He has begun to investigate them. His superiors could never tolerate that he is suspicious and has begun to investigate but still did nothing to prevent them from killing FBI agents. I can't imagine Stan having any kind of career in the FBI if that ever becomes known.

I'm surprised Bannon has not criticized the writing in this episode. Screw all the half-assed searching of their house. All Stan had to do was make a phone call to the airlines and check whether P & E really did fly to Houston. Once he learned they flew to Chicago, it would all be over. I'm going to take a shot at the writing this episode.

Bad writing. Bad premise. All it would take is one phone call to the airlines. WTH?

It seems like such an easy and simple premise to me for any investigator. If you are suspicious of someone - even just a tiny bit suspicious - just double check all the details about them that is easy to check. If anything doesn't pan out, then you can go further. But it's just so bad to not even take ten minutes to check what can be checked in ten  minutes. I have never before been seriously angry about the writing. But this just seems like terrible writing to me. Why wouldn't Stand call the airlines to check the details if he had even the slightest suspicion of his very bestest buddy?

 

6 hours ago, scartact said:

Rusty on keeping up with episode threads these days so I apologize if I'm repeating things folks have already discussed or pondered, but a plot I'm really engaged in is Elizabeth's storyline with Erica this season. As someone who has previously admitted Elizabeth is my favorite character (though admittedly I love all the characters; I'm less inclined these days to nitpick them), even I've found her to be extremely staunch and unlikable this season, which to me comes from a major air of desperation Elizabeth is projecting in the form of becoming more and more extremist. Though, I do get what they're doing and why they're doing that.

Anyway, that being said, I've been thinking about who Erica is to Elizabeth and one TV critic called the art lessons Liz is doing her version of est, but I find that the one mode of humanization for Liz this season. I haven't fully thought out if Erica slowly dying and Elizabeth watching her die is some kind of metaphor for what's happening with Liz this season, or what's stricken Liz about Erica's art and partaking in art. I think there's something there about Erica's rawness of self that Liz is resonating with and responding to, even as much as she tries to resist it. But at this point, Phil and Liz are pretty out of step and she's especially isolated and holding on to this major secret with Dead Hand. I'm just thinking through Erica's frustrations with Stephanie and telling her she has to get out of her own way, which obviously in some ways Elizabeth is in her own way this season in doing the work because she's trying to hold all of it, much to her detriment. 

As for this episode? the Harvest operation was tense to watch, but of course it wasn't gonna be successful. I think there's some season one echoing that season six is doing, so this made me think about the season one finale with Phil and Liz's escape and how this becomes the failed version of it. They get away, but they don't succeed and two spies are dead. And damn I definitely didn't have the stomach for watching Philip hacking at Marilyn's neck. That was gross. As for Stan breaking in and snooping, I was hella tense throughout that entire sequence! There's something so jarring about seeing him so close to everything, that all he needs is to just have the right combination of knowledge to uncover all of it.

As for when Elizabeth and Paige had their final discussion, I read a critic (I think Vox?) who interpreted that as Elizabeth trying to goad Paige into committing, but I actually read that as her trying to find some outlet to push Paige out of doing the work, especially after seeing how much it took for Philip to go back into it. And if not really push her out, at the very least push Paige to think much more clearly and intentionally about the choice Paige is making. But I also think Paige is still being incredibly naive and foolish in saying that she isn't afraid to die. How will Paige know till she's legitimately in that situation?

1

I really like this post, Scartact. It was always hard for me to agree with the critics about how this show reverses gender stereotypes because Phillip is more emotional and Liz is a killing machine. I love the actress but at this point, Liz is nothing more than a Stepford Wife for the cause. Also, Paige has no friends because all college students are shallow and not as deep as her? Who needs friends when you can laugh it up about having to prostitute yourself for food with drunk fake grandma.

Unintionally hilarious moments in a dark violet episode:

Stan- "I am good at figuring out when something is wrong." Uh...sure you are, buddy. How about using you FBI hookups to do a quick background check on your neighbors instead of a pretty useless breaking and entering, because there might be a huge pot of Russian Beef Stew on the stove.

Harvest- "Tell my mother that I love her and I have had a good life in which I regret nothing."  "Tell my father that I hope he dies and burns in Hell forever." Phillip nodding, " I will remember every word."

A shallow moment in a dark and violent episode:

The outfit they put Paige in was awful when she was on her walk and talk. It made her look twice as wide and half as tall as Elizabeth and I know neither of these things to be true. Let's hope this type of bulky eighties clothing never comes back in style. Elizabeth's clothes always flatter her figure perfectly.

[Ina123]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

To me, if he's right about P & E, he looks like a fool. 

Exactly. His career is on the line. That's why he wishes he had something definite. He knows what he has to do if he's correct. He knows his career is on the line. But if he's wrong, why be embarrassed if he can clear it up with no one knowing? He'll do the right thing if he has to.

[SunnyBeBe]

5 minutes ago, benteen said:

Very true.  There's the person angle with Philip plus if Philip and Elizabeth are spies, Stan's career is likely over.

Well, one would think that, but, I'm just anticipating that with these writers, they could let Stan take the lead in bringing P & E down and praise him with all credit and treatment as a hero.  I mean....it's crazy, but, I can imagine they may go that route.  Of course, I'm constantly reminded of a character named Hank Schrad......lol.  Be careful what you wish for.  

[Ina123]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Well, one would think that, but, I'm just anticipating that with these writers, they could let Stan take the lead in bringing P & E down and praise him with all credit and treatment as a hero.  I mean....it's crazy, but, I can imagine they may go that route.  Of course, I'm constantly reminded of a character named Hank Schrad......lol.  Be careful what you wish for.  

Umm...just remember what happened to Gaad just because someone put a pen in his office that was a bug. Right under his nose. He lost his position just because he didn't know. Now imagine Stan's predicament.

[SunnyBeBe]

9 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I thought Henry was being a brat.  He knows his father is depressed and is trying really hard to make things work.  I can understand Henry's frustration with his mom and dad leaving just as he comes home for Thanksgiving.  Still, Henry needs to cut his dad some slack.

That said, it seems like Stan and Henry would be a much better father and son combo. 

I don't think I have seen enough of Paige to get a read on who she is.  Is she an introvert?  Is she just shy?  Why does she need approval from others in order to feel anything good about herself?

 

ETA: Henry hasn't been always that easy going.  He through a hissy fit when a couple of his classmates were just tossing a Nerf football near him when he was talking on the phone with his dad.

 

Yes, they seem to have always set up Henry and Stan as more compatible.  So that's why I wonder if they are setting the stage for Stan do take on Henry as the parental figure. (Paige will have Claudia.)  And P & E EXIT for good to parts unknown or just to live abroad.  Recall back when Stan and Aderholt were talking in the office about the baby and Aderholt asked Stan if he and Renee wanted a child?  Stan considered and said they were too OLD. But, maybe not for a high school student...that might work. 

2 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

Umm...just remember what happened to Gaad just because someone put a pen in his office that was a bug. Right under his nose. He lost his position just because he didn't know. Now imagine Stan's predicament.

AMEN!  So, if the writers don't recognize this.......I just pray they don't insult my intelligence. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[SunnyBeBe]

Did Marilyn know about Mexico, though? 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

The Americans Get Philip's Help For A (Chicago) Bear Of An Assignment

Rififi's got nothing on the Jenningses' Harvest heist in our latest EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP!

[Ina123]

3 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Did Marilyn also have a necklace?  I would assume she did since Elizabeth had one.

You had to be VIP illegal for a cyanide necklace. Elizabeth just got one for this laser project from the guy in Mexico. Phillip doesn't have one.

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

Exactly. His career is on the line. That's why he wishes he had something definite. He knows what he has to do if he's correct. He knows his career is on the line. But if he's wrong, why be embarrassed if he can clear it up with no one knowing? He'll do the right thing if he has to.

He's an FBI Agent. They do background checks on people all the time, and because Phil has a passport, it will require essentially zero resources to investigate his bio. There is no embarassment surrounding a background check that A) doesn't consume an unusual amount of resources, and B) ends up going nowhere. That's what the job is.

If  Stan's Excellent Breaking & Entering works for some folks, fine. It doesn't for me. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Another point that Stan might consider when exposing P & E.  Recall that wasn't it STAN who told P ( an illegal) where Gaad was going to be abroad, thus, providing those heavies the location so they could go to his hotel room? So, in effect, Stan provided the intel that allowed for Gaad's death.  Is that right?  Please chime in if I'm off on this.