sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 Regarding Philip's cringeworthy motivational speaking, it occurs to me that whenever he's dealing with someone that goes directly against his upbringing, it doesn't come naturally to him. He's a great manipulator, but not a great sales manager. So he reads books about being a salesman and motivation and tries to follow the instruction. If it's just Philip himself trying to sell a trip he's fine because he's good at connecting and reading people, but he can't motivate a roomful of people to just do better at that and still sound like himself. This also relates to his talk with Paige, which now I think about it is very funny. He can't speak about emotions like a human being who's had them. Instead he always just says, "So you know these meetings I got to sometimes..." as if the person won't remember and he has to keep re-introducing them to EST. Then he says, "Well, THEY say..." and then gives their advice. Peggy on Mad Men basically gave the exact same speech (I kept making Mad Men connections this ep...) but she was naturally speaking from her own experience. With Philip he's just like "I went to the feelings class and they said you should do this. Can you do that? Try to do that! This is what the feelings people say." But then, hilariously, when Paige actually asks for some advice based on his actual experience going through this exact thing he says he has no idea how he got through it. I mean, we all know he didn't allow himself to feel the feelings because that didn't even occur to him before EST. He got through it the same way Elizabeth did. He crushed his feelings down until the PTSD got too unbearable. 4 minutes ago, teddysmom said: I guess I'm confused, he said Teresa aka Janice (sorry) already knew about the security audit? Or knew about the problems? He said that Janice probably already knew about the security audit because she was in the security team. Elizabeth had warned him not to talk to anybody because it would skew the results and he was basically saying that the only person he'd really talk to about it ought to already know, being part of the security team just like her. That's why Elizabeth had to pretend to know her. 4 minutes ago, teddysmom said: I figured Elizabeth just gave him the spiel about the audit and keeping it on the DL, to get the info on the weak spots in their system, not that it was a real audit she somehow became a part of. . She's not part of a real audit. That's why she had to kill him. If he talked to his girlfriend he'd find out there was no audit. 1 minute ago, benteen said: Yeah, I thought Henry had a full scholarship too and I don't get the retcon. The administrator's behavior doesn't make sense either. According to him, Philip has never missed a payment before and if this is a "first offense" for a parents of a top student, why was he treating Philip like a guy who is never on time with his payments? Exactly. There was none of the deference the guy would obviously have for a kid who was so valuable and a dad who's never been a problem. It seemed like it was just about changing the situation to put capitalism in a worse light, but it's jarring. It's like they're forgetting how valuable Henry is supposed to be--because it's not like they seem to have changed that. They seem to be specifically showing Henry as the star of the school while also threatening that status because of the money situation, forgetting that the star status got him a full scholarship last season and that was even before they knew he was also a champion hockey player. 8 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) It may be worthwhile to start a new topic: Easy ways that "The Americans" could have been written better. I've always been puzzled by some of the unforced errors that the writers of this show have indulged in. Edited April 12, 2018 by Bannon 8 Link to comment
RedHawk April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 Despite the many problems with this episode, I still found it compelling. And although I still don't like the Paige story line and haven't since way back when she joined the church, I do find Holly Taylor's acting more believable now that she's playing the character as closer to her actual age. Stavos at the travel agency looked like he wanted to crawl under his desk in embarrassment (for Phillip) during that motivational speech. He was also thinking, "Don't pick me, don't pick me!" so loud I could hear it. Poor Stavos, probably their first employee. I wonder if he will have a role in The End. I kind of hope so. Surely after all these years he's had some questions about P&E's unusual and often secretive behavior. Or maybe we'll find out he's a long-time recruit after all. I have always wanted to know a bit more about him. So the travel agency arc seems to be that three years ago when Phillip first made it his total priority the business took off so well he was able to expand. That would seem to jibe with the "yuppie" era and expansion of leisure travel. He mentioned cruises specifically. Due in big part to the '70s TV series "The Love Boat", I recall the cruise business really took off. Then in the late '80s other forms of travel-planning competition came along and so the agency is starting to feel the crunch, with bookings down and cash-flow being a problem. That tuition bill has been hanging over Phillip for a couple of months, although I agree that Henry is too much a star pupil for the school not to be bending over backward with scholarships and manageable payment plans. 4 Link to comment
Tara Ariano April 12, 2018 Author Share April 12, 2018 In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode! The Americans Reacquaints Paige With Her Scary Mommy Philip's reaction to Elizabeth's fury about Paige's, uh, normal human frailties leads Elizabeth to wonder whether there might be some ways to solve her problems other than barking or murdering her way out of them. Plus: is Dupont Circle Travel circling the drain?! 1 Link to comment
Shriekingeel April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 4 hours ago, icemiser69 said: I don't think Renee works for Russia. I think she works for Stan's bosses. Given the crap Stan pulled to save Oleg, those bosses can't just let that go. They can't let anyone else pull that shit. Could it be, could it be, could it be...Stan will divine from a conversation with Oleg that the illegal is someone close to him, and Stan, with his usual instincts, will look at Renee, who turns out to be innocent? 5 Link to comment
sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said: Could it be, could it be, could it be...Stan will divine from a conversation with Oleg that the illegal is someone close to him, and Stan, with his usual instincts, will look at Renee, who turns out to be innocent? I'd think he'd realize Renee couldn't be an Illegal if she was trying to get a job at the FBI. If Oleg ratted out yet another Illegal the USSR would be pretty justified in blowing his brains out. Jeez, Oleg! 1 Link to comment
shura April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 54 minutes ago, Ina123 said: The fact that the girlfriend was in security he just assumed she would know and the chances were that he would blab. That's why she killed him. (or she had planned to kill him all along. I don't think so or she would have had a better plan). It still feels not very logical though. Elizabeth kept telling him not to tell anybody about the "audit" and presumably felt it was enough to let him live, even though he could have totally been friends with all kinds of people in security that she did not know about. Then he tells her that he does, in fact, know people in security. What does that change? The risk does not increase, she simply becomes aware of it. Why not stress again that he cannot tell anybody, even his girlfriend? He had signed the confidentiality agreement after all. Also, it was pretty stupid for her to lie and tell him she knew Theresa when she doesn't even know if there is a Theresa. Just tell him no, I haven't met her, must have been someone else from my organization who has, I don't know. Although, I suppose, at that point she had already decided he was a goner, so it didn't matter that much. 39 minutes ago, RedHawk said: Henry is too much a star pupil for the school not to be bending over backward with scholarships and manageable payment plans. Do we really know that the school still thinks he is such a huge star? We've seen his proud parents brag about him and some girls who were really happy to watch him, but other than that, has there been independent confirmation? Maybe he is just average now compared to his peers. 4 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said: Could it be, could it be, could it be...Stan will divine from a conversation with Oleg that the illegal is someone close to him, and Stan, with his usual instincts, will look at Renee, who turns out to be innocent? Maybe, next week, in her search for meaningful middle aged employment, Renee will start prattling on at one of the dinner parties about becoming a KGB asset, since the FBI capitalist running dogs engage in bourgeois age discrimination. Stan will be slightly embarrassed, but then think of Nina and become quietly wistful. Liz will immediately grasp what a threat it will be to The Cause to have such an idiot associated with it, so she will announce that she is going to the ladies room. Renee will join her, and when they get there, Liz will hang her from the shower curtain rod, then rush back to the dining room, shouting that Renee has killed herself in a moment of overwhelming career-based despondency. Paige will arrive home just then, and shout "Not AGAIN, mom!". Liz looks pissed, and Stan raises his eyebrows, as the episode ends..... 8 Link to comment
RedHawk April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, shura said: It still feels not very logical though. Elizabeth kept telling him not to tell anybody about the "audit" and presumably felt it was enough to let him live, even though he could have totally been friends with all kinds of people in security that she did not know about. Then he tells her that he does, in fact, know people in security. What does that change? The risk does not increase, she simply becomes aware of it. Why not stress again that he cannot tell anybody, even his girlfriend? He had signed the confidentiality agreement after all. Also, it was pretty stupid for her to lie and tell him she knew Theresa when she doesn't even know if there is a Theresa. Just tell him no, I haven't met her, must have been someone else from my organization who has, I don't know. Although, I suppose, at that point she had already decided he was a goner, so it didn't matter that much. Do we really know that the school still thinks he is such a huge star? We've seen his proud parents brag about him and some girls who were really happy to watch him, but other than that, has there been independent confirmation? Maybe he is just average now compared to his peers. Right, Elizabeth could have done some quick thinking and said, "No, I haven't met Theresa yet. I just interview whoever they send me. Again, please don't discuss this with her, especially as she's with Security and I may interview her later." She's not on her game these days. Also good point that Henry may not be a huge standout in his school. I sort of assumed it was true as have some other posters, but no, we don't know that. We have seen that he seems to be a key player on the hockey team, and that the girls like him, not sure about his academic rank. Edited April 12, 2018 by RedHawk 4 Link to comment
Mumbles April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 I wonder if these occasional Soviet Culture Appreciation nights with Paige is to get her acclimated to a life back in the USSR if she and Elizabeth ever have to go back. I know that last season when Elizabeth and Phillip were discussing the possibility of quitting and heading home, the fact that the kids didn't have any knowledge of that culture was something they were concerned about. 1 Link to comment
Ina123 April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) Also good point that Henry may not be a huge standout in his school. I sort of assumed it was true as have some other posters, but no, we don't know that. But we did have the phone conversation where he tells Phillip about his heroics during a game, unless he was just exaggerating, of course. Edited April 12, 2018 by Ina123 1 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, RedHawk said: Right, Elizabeth could have done some quick thinking and said, "No, I haven't met Theresa yet. I just interview whoever they send me. Again, please don't discuss this with her, especially as she's with Security and I may interview her later." She's not on her game these days. Also good point that Henry may not be a huge standout in his school. I sort of assumed it was true as have some other posters, but no, we don't know that. We have seen that he seems to be a key player on the hockey team, and that the girls like him, not sure about his academic rank. Well, if a character's social status changes in an important way, to the point that it can affect the character or character's family in a substantial way, the job of a writer is to explore that change, instead of using scenes merely to discuss events at hockey games. 3 Link to comment
jjj April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mumbles said: I wonder if these occasional Soviet Culture Appreciation nights with Paige is to get her acclimated to a life back in the USSR if she and Elizabeth ever have to go back. I know that last season when Elizabeth and Phillip were discussing the possibility of quitting and heading home, the fact that the kids didn't have any knowledge of that culture was something they were concerned about. Based on what we saw of Martha's sad, discolored potato that was her entire dinner, I don't think Paige should be getting prepped for meat stew and beef in cabbage rolls. 9 Link to comment
sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, shura said: Then he tells her that he does, in fact, know people in security. What does that change? The risk does not increase, she simply becomes aware of it. Why not stress again that he cannot tell anybody, even his girlfriend? He had signed the confidentiality agreement after all. But it makes no sense that he can't talk to his girlfriend. She was specifically saying that he shouldn't talk to anybody he worked with because it would skew the results. There's no reason he couldn't talk to his girlfriend about it since his interview was over and the girlfriend would already know about it. If she said he couldn't talk to his girlfriend about it there'd be no reason to justify it. That's why she pretended to know his girlfriend, to keep that cover until she killed him. 28 minutes ago, shura said: Do we really know that the school still thinks he is such a huge star? We've seen his proud parents brag about him and some girls who were really happy to watch him, but other than that, has there been independent confirmation? Maybe he is just average. It would be very strange writing to have a storyline about Henry being an average figure at the school by introducing him on the rink with girls cheering for him specifically and numerous people saying what a good player he is. If he's supposed to be average they ought to show him being average. Sports are important in this world. In terms of his academic studies, we don't know about his grades specifically, but that would also be a backpedaling. He's not at a school for geniuses, he's at a snooty prep school that's highly competitive. That means plenty of the other kids there are just rich or legacies who did not get in purely on their grades--it's competitive, but brains aren't the only thing they look for. Last year the show was seriously hammering on Henry being an exceptional student, so if he's fallen from grace I think they need to explain that. I mean, it's not like they've implied that he's spending more time partying than working. Or that he's spending *too much* time thinking about hockey. Plus he's still got some academic scholarship, if that was mentioned in the phone call. Everything we've seen says that Henry's acing this school. 16 minutes ago, Mumbles said: I wonder if these occasional Soviet Culture Appreciation nights with Paige is to get her acclimated to a life back in the USSR if she and Elizabeth ever have to go back. I know that last season when Elizabeth and Phillip were discussing the possibility of quitting and heading home, the fact that the kids didn't have any knowledge of that culture was something they were concerned about. If that's the idea it's not like it would help. That reminds me, I like how Philip even specifically mentioned young people and music as a sign of the changing times. Paige is a young person, but her close relationships are with her mother and an old lady. The music we saw her exposed to was Tchaikovsky not Kino or Aquarium. (Here ends my very limited knowledge of Russian rock...) 12 minutes ago, Bannon said: Well, if a character's social status changes in an important way, to the point that it can affect the character or character's family in a substantial way, the job of a writer is to explore that change, instead of using scenes merely to discuss events at hockey games. That puts it more succinctly. Edited April 12, 2018 by sistermagpie 3 Link to comment
zibnchy April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, JFParnell said: She's gone full Walter White. Elizabeth left Walter White behind in the pilot. Elizabeth Jennings is the baddest, coldest, darkest, scariest MF ever. I have no doubt at all that she would kill Paige if told to by Mother Russia. I honestly thought the whole conversation about tuition with the guy from the school was just either 1.) exposition in case we didn't already get the message that the travel agency is having $$ problems or 2.) a way to bring Henry home so he can play some part in the ending narrative. Edited April 12, 2018 by zibnchy 8 Link to comment
RedHawk April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lily H said: If I were Stan, I would have really, really wanted to punch Sophia right in the mouth and wipe that smugness off her face. It would be infuriating to have to deal with such a stupid and stubborn woman. I was hoping they would arrange for her to have an "accident". Loved the scene with the guy spilling his guts to Elizabeth about security lapses. How very easy it was to find out everything they needed to know. And then he made the fateful mistake of mentioning his girlfriend in Security. So close to getting out of there alive. Paige is so not cut out for spying. Every time she said "I get it" when Elizabeth was berating her, I thought, "No, I don't really think you do". And I don't think Elizabeth even brought up Paige's worst mistake. Running towards the gunshots was bad enough, but screeching "Mom! Mom!" was beyond stupid and after all this supposed training, you'd think she'd know better. Yes, ALL that training over the past three years that we never saw. (Except for the physical stuff in the garage.) Thus I have trouble believing she received it, because it certainly doesn't seem ingrained in her behavior and reactions. I agree that Liz has totally messed this up, and I don't understand why Claudia isn't aware of it. Liz reported every little thing about Phillip. She didn't tell Claudia about Paige yelling "Mom!" in the park? 11 minutes ago, jjj said: Based on what we saw of Martha's sad, discolored potato that was her entire dinner, I don't think Paige should be getting prepped for meat stew and beef in cabbage rolls. It was "just a snack"! ;-) Edited April 12, 2018 by RedHawk 5 Link to comment
jjj April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 21 minutes ago, sistermagpie said: I'd think he'd realize Renee couldn't be an Illegal if she was trying to get a job at the FBI. I guess I am in a very tiny minority (of one?) that did not think Renee was really asking to be an FBI agent, but darn if I know what that was really about. I mean, have we even seen female FBI agents, so she would have seen very few, and if she has been around newer agents, she would have seen they were at that point largely male and in their twenties, coming from law degrees and the military. So she had to know it was ludicrous. And she also had to know that there are many, many staff jobs at the FBI, so if she wanted to work around Stan, she could ask about transferring her skills to one of the many staff opportunities available in the organization. So, I wondered what that was really about. One of the reviews suggested it was like a Jennings desperation move, trying something outlandish when a mission was not going the right way. But three years is a very long game to get to such a ridiculous request. Was she using that to try to get Stan to tell her more about what he is working on, so she could "feel closer" to him? I am sure she works for someone, but I could as easily see her as an FBI plant as a KGB plant. Or East Germany might be running a scheme! Doe Stan deserve true love? I think he does. But it does not look like he will have it by the end of the series, because there is no candidate nearby to step into the spotlight for him. 6 Link to comment
sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, RedHawk said: I don't understand why Claudia isn't aware of it. Liz reported every little thing about Phillip. She didn't tell Claudia about Paige yelling "Mom!" in the park? That would imply Elizabeth is continuing to cover up Paige's mistakes, which I could believe. She didn't even mention to Paige or Philip that Paige yelled "Mom!" when she ran in, which in itself is already making it better. Paige might or might not even remember doing it. That's not the sort of thing she can just say she gets like leaving her position. That was primal. Claudia did seem to know about some of it, but note Paige's reaction to her "Rough couple of days?" was to assure her that she was fine. Like again everyone's just worried about Paige's feelings instead of being angry at her for fucking up. She still gets treated like the best recruit ever. Paige expects everyone to care about how she's handling everything just the way they did when she was 15 and...she's right. The bigger issue is whether or not she likes her peasant food! Claudia, of course, might not really care. She just wants Paige in place. If Paige winds up self-destructing that's not a problem for Claudia the way it is for Elizabeth. Sources come and go. Can't save everyone. 4 minutes ago, jjj said: So, I wondered what that was really about. One of the reviews suggested it was like a Jennings desperation move, trying something outlandish when a mission was not going the right way. And yet she does seem to be getting some stuff from Stan--more than Sandra did, anyway. Her working at the FBI somewhere might not be that much of a step up. I am leaning a little towards the idea that she might honestly just be a nosy wife who gets in trouble by trying to involve herself in Stan's work on the domestic front. 4 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, zibnchy said: Elizabeth left Walter White behind in the pilot. Elizabeth Jennings is the baddest, coldest, darkest, scariest MF ever. I have no doubt at all that she would kill Paige if told to by Mother Russia. It's an interesting contrast, in the effective portrayal of violence in heavily serialized t.v. drama. Hyperviolent drug cartels in the SW United States are a real thing, so I had very little issue with the violence associated with Walter White. Even so, I thought the weakest episode in BB was when Walt managed simultaneous assasinations, of multiple potential witnesses, spread out over several jails and prisons. It was just too much, but I understood the writers had sort of written themselves into a corner, and very significantly, they had built enough equity with me, over several seasons, with consistently great writing, that I accepted it. I really have enjoyed many elements of The Americans, especially the vast majority of the acting. But I think they started out too violent, for the world being portrayed, and have turned the knob to "11" over time, and have made enough writing missteps along the way that the killing spree this final season becomes really egregious. 8 Link to comment
scowl April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 For the third episode in a row, Elizabeth kills a guy right at the hour mark. This show is like Groundhog Day! 10 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, scowl said: For the third episode in a row, Elizabeth kills a guy right at the hour mark. This show is like Groundhog Day! With this Phil now taking the Ned Ryerson role, except in a travel agency, instead of insurance! 4 Link to comment
NitneLiun April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) A couple of comments on the prep school issue. First, most of the elite prep schools offer many scholarships to students who would not be able to afford tuition. Those scholarships are typically full scholarships that would be revoked only if the student fails to meet academic or disciplinary standards. If the school wants you there, money will not be an object. The Ivy League schools are much the same way, particularly for athletes. The brother of one of my high school girlfriends played football at Harvard, but his parents never paid a dime, even though the Ivies do not offer athletic scholarships. Harvard wanted him there, so money was never an issue. A cousin of mine played soccer at Harvard. It was much the same situation for him. His parents were working class, but Harvard wanted him, got him and kept him. Money was never an issue. Edited April 12, 2018 by NitneLiun 11 Link to comment
jjj April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 It is always a clue that there will be something nasty happening when the opening rating indicates "Violence". And the longer the episode goes on, the more I am aware that the violence will be occurring any minute now. (Plus, as I noted above, they totally showed her strangling this guy in the previews last week, so no surprise at all.) I think in one episode a few years ago, they had the violence early, but then something much worse at the end of the episode. Now that was a surprise. This show has typically played against expectations (like last season, when we expected it to be good), so maybe we are being lulled into last-minute murders to surprise us with some other formula soon. (?) 1 minute ago, NitneLiun said: A couple of comments o the prep school issue. First, most of the elite prep schools offer many scholarships to students who would not be able to afford tuition. Those scholarships are typically full scholarships that would be revoked only if the student fails to meet academic or disciplinary standards. If the school wants you there, money will not be an object. The Ivy League schools are much the same way, particularly for athletes. The brother of one of my high school girlfriends played football at Harvard, but his parents never paid a dime, even though the Ivies do not offer athletic scholarships. Harvard wanted him there, so money was never an issue. A cousin of mine played soccer at Harvard. It was much the same situation for him. His parents were working class, but Harvard wanted him, got him and kept him. Money was never an issue. Yes, I will second all this, for private high schools as well as the Ivy League schools and the way they support the student athletes, who are not on athletic scholarships. Just academic scholarships. 5 Link to comment
shura April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 26 minutes ago, sistermagpie said: It would be very strange writing to have a storyline about Henry being an average figure at the school by introducing him on the rink with girls cheering for him specifically and numerous people saying what a good player he is. If he's supposed to be average they ought to show him being average. Sports are important in this world. In terms of his academic studies, we don't know about his grades specifically, but that would also be a backpedaling. He's not at a school for geniuses, he's at a snooty prep school that's highly competitive. That means plenty of the other kids there are just rich or legacies who did not get in purely on their grades--it's competitive, but brains aren't the only thing they look for. Last year the show was seriously hammering on Henry being an exceptional student, so if he's fallen from grace I think they need to explain that. I mean, it's not like they've implied that he's spending more time partying than working. Or that he's spending *too much* time thinking about hockey. Plus he's still got some academic scholarship, if that was mentioned in the phone call. Everything we've seen says that Henry's acing this school. Girls loudly cheering for a good-looking guy like Henry? Right, the NHL better take notice. And the only "numerous people" unrelated to Henry that I can remember is one of those girls' mom saying something like "Henry is getting really good, he's got his own support group," which sounds to me like commenting more on the cheering than on Henry's talent, necessarily. I wonder then if what was a full scholarship in his first year got scaled back later on as a matter of policy somehow? Like, we hooked him in, now that he is here let's get his parents to start paying some? 2 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, shura said: Girls loudly cheering for a good-looking guy like Henry? Right, the NHL better take notice. And the only "numerous people" unrelated to Henry that I can remember is one of those girls' mom saying something like "Henry is getting really good, he's got his own support group," which sounds to me like commenting more on the cheering than on Henry's talent, necessarily. I wonder then if what was a full scholarship in his first year got scaled back later on as a matter of policy somehow? Like, we hooked him in, now that he is here let's get his parents to start paying some? That isn't at all how these prestigious boarding schools work, however. 9 Link to comment
CaliCheeseSucks April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, zibnchy said: I honestly thought the whole conversation about tuition with the guy from the school was just either 1.) exposition in case we didn't already get the message that the travel agency is having $$ problems or 2.) a way to bring Henry home so he can play some part in the ending narrative. I vote a third option: both things. 32 minutes ago, jjj said: But three years is a very long game to get to such a ridiculous request. One of the writing fails that leads me to believe the writers really did not have their ducks in a row from the beginning as to how they would get from A-Z by the end. I know some viewers, myself included, suspected her appearance in his life (from the way they met) was not intended to be viewed as accidental. She surely would have hit the wall with Stan's discretion with work talk well before the three-year mark. Then again, it could be just another red herring or dropped plotline in a series that is littered with them - the girl on the bus who drew Paige into Pastor Tim's ministry, Kimmie, wheat, the drawn-out drama of Philip's son coming to America (only to turn right around and go home), on and on. Seven hours is not a lot of time to finish assembling a puzzle that once seemed intriguing and enigmatic but now seems just a jumble of ill-fitting pieces of 'whatever works, use it.' 11 Link to comment
RedHawk April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 43 minutes ago, Bannon said: Well, if a character's social status changes in an important way, to the point that it can affect the character or character's family in a substantial way, the job of a writer is to explore that change, instead of using scenes merely to discuss events at hockey games. This season we've been shown that he's a skilled hockey player, maybe a team star, and that some of his female fellow students dig him. We haven't heard anything about his academic performance, right? We still don't know if he maintained his interest in math (and computers) and has excelled in his studies or if he happily settled into being a popular student with a respectable B average he hasn't had to work very hard for. I tend to think he has followed the course set last season and is a strong scholar in the subjects he loves and does fine in the ones that don't particularly interest him. 1 Link to comment
sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Bannon said: I really have enjoyed many elements of The Americans, especially the vast majority of the acting. But I think they started out too violent, for the world being portrayed, and have turned the knob to "11" over time, and have made enough writing missteps along the way that the killing spree this final season becomes really egregious. Also when things are supposed to be going bad it's hard to tell because it's just like usual. The killings would all have been more effective if they made them more rare. Then we'd believe they weighed on them. Like that general--I believed him when he said he was still haunted by the guy he killed in season 1 despite killing guys in a different context in Korea. Like this season especially Elizabeth's killing a guy a week and is this supposed to be new for her or has she been averaging a kill every 2 weeks before the summit? How has Paige managed to avoid stumbling onto a murder before now given how common they are? Has she been in the room with a corpse before without realizing it (Mom just told her the guy was tired). Elizabeth doesn't seem to care that much that she's killed these guys and Paige doesn't much care either, she just worries about her mom. We're all numb to it. I can't speak for everyone, but I know I'm not the only person who was most interested in Philip and Oleg meeting at the end. I think it says something that Elizabeth's murder cliffhangers just aren't really cliffhangers, just her hitting a reset button like in a video game again. The Philip and Oleg meeting cliffhanger was an actual espionage story and it was for me a lot more interesting and exciting! It's two guys hiding from powerful people who could kill them passing information important to their country and the world. 1 minute ago, shura said: Girls loudly cheering for a good-looking guy like Henry? Right, the NHL better take notice. And the only "numerous people" unrelated to Henry that I can remember is one of those girls' mom saying something like "Henry is getting really good, he's got his own support group," which sounds to me like commenting more on the cheering than on Henry's talent, necessarily. But there's is plenty of context in the show that says Henry is an excellent player, including in this ep where Henry reported his success in the last game. Of course the girls are also supposed to be attracted to him physically--that's another reason that Henry is winning in every way at the school. But the prowess enhances the handsome in ways average playing does not. A situation where he's so hot girls cheer him on over better players would require more explanation (it would be a joke, really) and it would make him embarrassed. You need a shorthand for this stuff. The kid getting cheered on by fans is shorthand for good player. 5 minutes ago, shura said: I wonder then if what was a full scholarship in his first year got scaled back later on as a matter of policy somehow? Like, we hooked him in, now that he is here let's get his parents to start paying some? That wouldn't make sense for the school. It's prestigious with a lot of rich donors. They want more rich donors, which they get by creating successful alumni. They wouldn't get anywhere trying to lean on poor people for tuition they don't have. 8 Link to comment
NitneLiun April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, shura said: Girls loudly cheering for a good-looking guy like Henry? Right, the NHL better take notice. And the only "numerous people" unrelated to Henry that I can remember is one of those girls' mom saying something like "Henry is getting really good, he's got his own support group," which sounds to me like commenting more on the cheering than on Henry's talent, necessarily. I wonder then if what was a full scholarship in his first year got scaled back later on as a matter of policy somehow? Like, we hooked him in, now that he is here let's get his parents to start paying some? That isn't how it works. If he failed to meet academic or disciplinary standards, they would just revoke the scholarship and tell him to get lost. The scholarship students usually have to meet higher academic standards. There is no "2.0 and go" for them. They typically have to maintain a minimum GPA of 3.0 if they want to retain the scholarship. 4 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedHawk said: This season we've been shown that he's a skilled hockey player, maybe a team star, and that some of his female fellow students dig him. We haven't heard anything about his academic performance, right? We still don't know if he maintained his interest in math (and computers) and has excelled in his studies or if he happily settled into being a popular student with a respectable B average he hasn't had to work very hard for. I tend to think he has followed the course set last season and is a strong scholar in the subjects he loves and does fine in the ones that don't particularly interest him. Last season, he was a star student. If that has changed, the writers should be writing about it, maybe at the expense of yet another scene of Liz as CEO of Murder, Inc.. 6 Link to comment
RedHawk April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, CaliCheeseSucks said: Then again, it could be just another red herring or dropped plotline in a series that is littered with them - the girl on the bus who drew Paige into Pastor Tim's ministry, Kimmie, wheat, the drawn-out drama of Philip's son coming to America (only to turn right around and go home), on and on. Just because characters haven't reappeared in the first three episodes of the season, it doesn't mean they're never coming back. I doubt that the Kimmie plotline has been dropped entirely. Her father being made the head of the Soviet Division was the entire reason that P&E didn't return to the Soviet Union at the end of last season. Also, I don't think we have seen the last of young Misha. The wheat, eh, that story naturally ended. 2 Link to comment
jjj April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bannon said: Last season, he was a star student. If that has changed, the writers should be writing about it, maybe at the expense of yet another scene of Liz as CEO of Murder, Inc.. I think this subplot is purely about "Philip is in a desperate financial situation." Henry's tuition is just a way of letting us know. Does the KGB pay the mortgage via some laundered source? I'm surprised they are not paying for Henry's school, as another potential second-gen recruit. I mean, that is The Plan that Gabriel told E/P. 6 Link to comment
CaliCheeseSucks April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedHawk said: Just because characters haven't reappeared in the first three episodes of the season, it doesn't mean they're never coming back. I doubt that the Kimmie plotline has been dropped entirely. Her father being made the head of the Soviet Division was the entire reason that P&E didn't return to the Soviet Union at the end of last season. Also, I don't think we have seen the last of young Misha. The wheat, eh, that story naturally ended. My point being, the show has expended enormous amounts of time on things that probably could have been far more economically handled given where we find ourselves now. We sat through how many scenes of Philip agonizing over leading a teenager on, so that maybe her father will be a factor in the final seven episodes? 2 Link to comment
zibnchy April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 I think about this show way too much! Here's my 2 cents about Paige. IMO Paige was/is desperate for her mother's approval. (As were/are so many of us.) So she agreed to become a spy because it was clearly the path Elizabeth wanted her to choose. Her parents were probably brainwashed from a young age AND were taken off to Spy University relatively young and we've seen a glimpse of how grueling that training was. In contrast, Paige is an american kid who has likely just been spy home-schooled by her mother and grandmother (Claudia). She's read some books, watched some movies, cooked some stew, worn a snazzy hat while following people around. Basic movie junior spy stuff. But she has no idea what spycraft is or what her parents do or who they are. Did she think Elizabeth was having a warm, fuzzy conversation with the general? Does she think Elizabeth just asks for stuff nicely and they all give it to her? Too bad the sad general decided to blow his brains out all over Elizabeth. How rude! Paige has no fucking idea and it is going to get her killed and I'm sorry about that because I've always kind of liked the Paige character. 5 Link to comment
RedHawk April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bannon said: Last season, he was a star student. If that has changed, the writers should be writing about it, maybe at the expense of yet another scene of Liz as CEO of Murder, Inc.. Henry has now had two full academic years at the school. I agree that we should hear a bit about his grades, and perhaps will soon, but I do think that from what we've been shown so far we're to think that he's a strong student as well as a popular and well-liked schoolmate. Someone the school would be proud of. So yeah, maybe a payment plan shouldn't be so hard for the financial office to deal with, if this is the first semester Phillip's had trouble coming up with the full amount. 1 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, jjj said: I think this subplot is purely about "Philip is in a desperate financial situation." Henry's tuition is just a way of letting us know. Does the KGB pay the mortgage via some laundered source? I'm surprised they are not paying for Henry's school, as another potential second-gen recruit. I mean, that is The Plan that Gabriel told E/P. It's a poor way to write it, then, because it is completely at odds with how an elite prep school works in the real world. Kind of like having a 97 pound woman kicking the crap out of men who have 100 ponds on her for years on end. 5 Link to comment
sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, NitneLiun said: That isn't how it works. If he failed to meet academic or disciplinary standards, they would just revoke the scholarship and tell him to get lost. Yeah, the whole thing just seems like a rewrite. Now Philip's sending his kid to a private school just like he expanded his business. He was living a life that he couldn't yet pay for. But that makes no sense given the set up. It's really frustrating. And it makes Philip look bad in ways that aren't fair. If they wanted to make a story about Henry wanting to be at a fancy private school and Philip overextending himself to pay for it, or at least deciding to pay for it so Henry can have whatever he wants, then write that. You can't make the kid super talented and give him a scholarship and then not know what that means because you want his dad sweating to cover tuition. (Also Philip ought to have a ton of money socked away--his spy job pays very very well in the real world.) This is a reality problem on the level of Oleg the privileged son of an important man in the government wistfully claiming he was never a Young Pioneer when he was growing up because his parents liked to summer in Crimea. That's not how that works. 2 minutes ago, zibnchy said: Did she think Elizabeth was having a warm, fuzzy conversation with the general? Does she think Elizabeth just asks for stuff nicely and they all give it to her? It honestly seems so. It's amazing that even with Paige telling us she's reading a book on the KGB she thinks Elizabeth's job is to be a nice person who asks people nicely for information she needs to help people. Except when she asks about sex for plot purposes because Paige will soon be totally trying to use sex to spy. 6 minutes ago, RedHawk said: So yeah, maybe a payment plan shouldn't be so hard for the financial office to deal with, if this is the first semester Phillip's had trouble coming up with the full amount. Although actually he shouldn't need a payment plan at all. 3 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, RedHawk said: Henry has now had two full academic years at the school. I agree that we should hear a bit about his grades, and perhaps will soon, but I do think that from what we've been shown so far we're to think that he's a strong student as well as a popular and well-liked schoolmate. Someone the school would be proud of. So yeah, maybe a payment plan shouldn't be so hard for the financial office to deal with, if this is the first semester Phillip's had trouble coming up with the full amount. If he is still a strong student, and outstanding hockey player, at a school like this, halfway through his junior year, the likes of Harvard, Princeton, Notre Dame, Dartmouth, etc., are already showering him with attention like Marilyn Monroe on a USO tour. He has about as much chance of leaving that school because his parents can't send a tuition check as Liz has of becoming a fan of William F. Buckley. 5 Link to comment
shura April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, NitneLiun said: That isn't how it works. If he failed to meet academic or disciplinary standards, they would just revoke the scholarship and tell him to get lost. Right, I get that. I guess I am thinking more "could it work like that in the show universe"? Because it seems it's either something like that or not very good writing. 18 minutes ago, sistermagpie said: But there's is plenty of context in the show that says Henry is an excellent player, including in this ep where Henry reported his success in the last game. Of course the girls are also supposed to be attracted to him physically--that's another reason that Henry is winning in every way at the school. But the prowess enhances the handsome in ways average playing does not. A situation where he's so hot girls cheer him on over better players would require more explanation (it would be a joke, really) and it would make him embarrassed. Ha, maybe he should get a scholarship for that! It would be a completely different show (and genre!) though. Regarding sports teams in private schools, I saw our local middle school basketball team play a team from a private school this winter. We trounced them, they were pretty terrible (although some of their players were "stars" on that team, of course). And I got to wonder how the whole thing works in private schools. Turns out, at least for this particular school, if you want to play sports, then you are on a team - it's just that they have several tiers of teams. But they all play in local leagues, getting to feel like sports stars and all. And get write-ups in the Sports section of the school's webpage. 1 Link to comment
benteen April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, sistermagpie said: Yeah, the whole thing just seems like a rewrite. Now Philip's sending his kid to a private school just like he expanded his business. He was living a life that he couldn't yet pay for. But that makes no sense given the set up. It's really frustrating. And it makes Philip look bad in ways that aren't fair. If they wanted to make a story about Henry wanting to be at a fancy private school and Philip overextending himself to pay for it, or at least deciding to pay for it so Henry can have whatever he wants, then write that. You can't make the kid super talented and give him a scholarship and then not know what that means because you want his dad sweating to cover tuition. (Also Philip ought to have a ton of money socked away--his spy job pays very very well in the real world.) Despite the KGB's lack of interest in him, you would think both they and Philip and Elizabeth would want keep Henry in that school. It was noted that congressmen and businessmen sent their kids to it, which could open up all new avenues for them. They would definitely provide Philip with the money. But again, Henry had a scholarship. It does seems like they are making Philip look bad on the business front just for the sake of it too. Edited April 12, 2018 by benteen 4 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said: Last season was dull as dirt and now the writers are overcompensating. I think the bigger problem is that the Soviets seem to outsmart the Americans at just about every turn. Of course Stan being Stan doesn't help matters any. I just think that it would be too obvious for Renee to be a Soviet spy.. Miss typed by typing Russians in an earlier comment. Oops, wrong decade. Would it be too much to ask to see Martha again? Given all that is going on with that family of his, he is going to need a support group. Yeah, a seperate topic for "Write The Americans as a better show" may be a good thing. Link to comment
sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, benteen said: Despite the KGB's lack of interest in him, you would think both they and Philip and Elizabeth would want keep Henry in that school. It was noted that congressmen and businessmen sent their kids to it, which could open up all new avenues for them. They would definitely provide Philip with the money. But again, Henry had a scholarship. It would be funny if towards the end of the show we saw some guy working in the Directorate S office discover a manila folder that was mis-filed or was stuck inside another folder and be like, "OMG, did you know the Jennings have TWO kids? What do we know about this second one?" And that explains why they have no interest in the kid who's the smart one. Even to just realize that he's not going to be recruited because he won't go for it. (Though it would make equal sense to get Philip, who obviously is very familiar with other parents at the school, to get to work on making connections with them.) 5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said: I just think that it would be too obvious for Renee to be a Soviet spy.. Miss typed by typing Russians in an earlier comment. Oops, wrong decade. Elizabeth has to run around slaughtering half the Eastern seaboard with a different wig for each one. Then there's another agent dedicated solely to Stan Beeman, Criminal Investigative Division. (I might be wrong on the division there, but it sure ain't Counterespionage.) 2 Link to comment
qtpye April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, Tetraneutron said: They FINALLY addressed that in the show. That Paige has to be familiar with the stuff Elizabeth does and be OK with it. Even if she won't be doing that herself. Although you would think if the job is to get Paige secured in a high-ranking state department job, you would think they'd want her to study and make friends at Georgetown. Not hanging out with her mother and an old lady learning how to make Russian peasant food (which is a lot like American peasant food of a few generation ago). I'm not sure where they're going with Philip and his business. Are they trying to make a point about how he/the audience shouldn't idealize America too much, that the American dream is hard and a lot of entrepreneurs fail and end up with nothing? Is it some kind of thematic thing? This episode was mostly place setting. Nothing happened, but pieces were moved for the coming weeks. I can't make myself care about Stan or his girlfriend. And I reiterate my one complaint about this otherwise excellent show: YOU CAN'T JUST GO AROUND MURDERING PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY NOT HIGH-RANKING, CONNECTED WHITE MEN. THE POLICE WILL NOT JUST SHRUG AND SAY, "EH, SUICIDE." I'm glad Paige asked about that. Finally. A General AND a senior-level security person? /it should be a concern. 17 hours ago, JFParnell said: Yeah, his role seems to be nudging Stan to do stuff and then shuffling off to do ... whatever it is Aderholt does when he's not nudging Stan. Adherholt-Stan you have to handle everything because you are so awesome. Only you have the brains to point out after three years our source is a moron and the mission is useless. Hockey Guy- Stan you really know what women want and how to make a marriage work. Me-Da fuk??? 18 hours ago, jjj said: I have seen some painful things on this show, but in the top five is going to be Philip as carnival barker/QVC host at 2:00 AM, frenetically pushing his apathetic office staff to "SUCCEED!". It just hurt. "It's been three years. How many times do you think he can fake a shit in an airport crapper?" StanLogic. Apparently this was their only trick; I thought then tended to mix up these mission methods. Seriously, three years of that? I half expected him to start dancing around and cheering "BE EXCITED..BE BE EXCITED!!!!!" with a set of giant pom poms. 17 hours ago, Erin9 said: I almost yelled at the TV at the end: of course we end with Philip and Oleg meeting again. I want to see what happens next....now. Lol I don’t quite get the point of Philip’s business difficulties. Long run-or very short run more likely- I doubt it’ll matter. If it’s to bring Henry back home- why send him away to begin with? I have to hand it to Elizabeth- she did finally tell Paige directly about at least one of her mistakes. With the General’s situation anyway. And acknowledged she didn’t handle the situation well either. Philip noting that the General was an idealist summed up in one word everything that Elizabeth did wrong with handling him. Nice to see Philip get to have a conversation with Paige finally. Even a small one. Elizabeth’s effort with the Russian food for Philip was nice. At least he tried some, stuffed and all. It is rather sad that they can’t have Russian leftovers in their fridge. Elizabeth really associates any change, especially any that the US applauds, as bad. That’s sad. Life is about change. Things do change. Everything western doesn’t have to be bad. Truth is- as they both pointed out-neither one of them have a clue what the average Russian wants because neither have gone home, but I think Philip has the right idea. Some change and openness can be positive. Doesn’t mean Russians will become Americans. And I think he’s right to assumepeople back home want it . Oleg seems pretty mad at Stan. Of course- had Stan never made the tape and turned it in, Oleg never would have been in trouble. Regardless of how he- rather unrealistically imo-pulled off damage control. But- it was nice to see them remember who brought them together to begin with. Stan was right to end the op that had yielded nothing. (I can’t image risking my life for years for absolutely nothing. How awful.) Sofia was a fool to talk to her new boyfriend. It was rather amusing that she said Soviets are good at keeping secrets. Yeah- clearly. What is up with Renee? That was....bizarre. If she’s a spy, this was one poorly planned mission. Or she’s desperate. 17 hours ago, Dev F said: I actually thought they made a better case for that this week than I was expecting. Last week I was so convinced a "the agency is running out of money!" storyline would make no sense that I figured Phil's double-take at the ATM was just him stalling so he could deliberately run into his old client. But it makes sense, I think, now that they've explained that their fancy, upgraded agency is struggling because Philip sunk a bunch of money into the upgrade. I believe part of the issue is that travel agencies -- not just the agents, but the agencies themselves -- work on commission. Forgive me if I'm getting this wrong; it's based on my vague memory of what a friend who was a travel agent once told me and some very quick Google searches. But if I'm understanding things correctly, the agencies are paid by the hotels and whatnot for the business that gets directed their way, which means the agencies don't get paid until their clients are actually on their trips. Since people tend to book big, expensive vacations way ahead of time, that means cash flow can be a huge problem; if Philip blew a lot of money on expanding the business, he wouldn't see any return on that investment for months and months. 13 hours ago, Bannon said: I unfortunately was joking when I asked last week if the writers had given Liz a quota of one schlub to be murdered at the end of each episode. Sadly, it appears they have. Lemme see....we have murdered naval security personnel near the Naval Observatory, a murdered Air Force general, pretty obviously dressed up as a suicide, and now a warehouse manager handling classified technology murdered in a hotel room. Good grief, that is lame, and as good as Russell has been on this show, these writers are asking her to be the Golden Gate Bridge of suspending disbelief. It also still seems pretty strange for Phil to be happily retired from espionage, as his daughter wades in deeper week after week. Finally, somebody oughta tell Liz that millions of Americans eat and enjoy a stew made with beef, vegetables and herbs, so a Tupperware container of it in the fridge won't tip anybody off. My parents made that exact dish for me many times during my childhood....Holy shit ya'll.... my parents are Russian spies!!!! 12 hours ago, Lily H said: If I were Stan, I would have really, really wanted to punch Sophia right in the mouth and wipe that smugness off her face. It would be infuriating to have to deal with such a stupid and stubborn woman. I was hoping they would arrange for her to have an "accident". Loved the scene with the guy spilling his guts to Elizabeth about security lapses. How very easy it was to find out everything they needed to know. And then he made the fateful mistake of mentioning his girlfriend in Security. So close to getting out of there alive. Paige is so not cut out for spying. Every time she said "I get it" when Elizabeth was berating her, I thought, "No, I don't really think you do". And I don't think Elizabeth even brought up Paige's worst mistake. Running towards the gunshots was bad enough, but screeching "Mom! Mom!" was beyond stupid and after all this supposed training, you'd think she'd know better. 10 hours ago, NitneLiun said: Sophia and Gennady are both meatheads. IRL, the FBI would probably just let them twist in the wind, as they produced no actionable intelligence and were pains in the ass. Stan must have told Gennady he has a certificate in marriage counseling, because Gennady sure seem to think Stan has all the answers to his marital problems. Sophia totally played the FBI for nothing. She got a big wad of cash, her teeth fixed, and now she and her child can live under FBI protection forever. She will now run through American guys like water. I think they are also showing how caring the Americans are to this totally useless source by coming in as saving her life like knights in shining armor as compared to the KGB who do not even care about protecting a valuable asset like Elizabeth. 9 hours ago, Ina123 said: They can't have leftover Russian food in the privacy of their own fridge but she can carry it in her purse across town? And, besides that, who would trust the container not to leak all over the inside of her purse? It's 1987 and despite all the hoopla at Tupperware parties, they did leak if carried on their side, especially if they had been used a lot. 8 hours ago, zibnchy said: First of all, I refuse to believe Claudia let Elizabeth walk out of the safe house with leftovers. Then there was only about 5 bites. Phillip could have eaten it. He didn't want to. Stan's shocked face when Sophia told him she told Bogdan about them was the same as his "I'm holding in a fart" face. We've seen that fart face a LOT in 6 seasons. They literally got nothing from 3 YEARS of fake pooping and x-raying BUT they saved moronic Sophia and Gennady but left Nina to die? Didn't the russian accompanying Gennady ever get suspicious that he had to poop every single time they passed that particular bathroom? What a coincidence! Too much cabbage on the plane I guess. 8 hours ago, Bannon said: Again, it is just dumb to portray a dish, made with diced beef, vegetables, garlic, and herbs, as being a signifier of Russian heritage, and thus forbidden from the Jennings' fridge. Millions of Americans have this oh-so-exotic peasant food all the time, except they call it "beef stew". I made it last week, yet managed to avoid being compelled to engage in Russian folk dance afterwords (face palm). 7 hours ago, Trillian said: I had read an advance review of this episode that talked about the cooking session, so I decided to make Zharkoye for supper last night. Maybe I did it wrong (I had never made it - or even heard of it - before, but I compared about a dozen recipes on the internet to try to get it as authentic as possible) but it looks just like beef stew. Tastes like the most delicious beef stew ever, but doesn't look unusual. Even if Stan rifled through their refrigerator (possible), he isn't going to note it's a Russian dish. And even if he did, he isn't going to jump to the conclusion that they are Soviet spies. Elizabeth experimented with Korean cooking, and that wasn't an issue. For that matter, China is a Communist country, and Philip was eating Chinese food! The scene does show, I think, how incredibly careful with detail Elizabeth and Philip have to be. They were told to leave their Russian selves behind so that they would never ever slip. Except when Elizabeth was shot and when they got married - both intensely intimate moments - they never speak Russian to each other. They never cook Russian food, even though Russian food is not inherently suspicious. We have seen them enjoy Russian food when in a safehouse - Gabriel used to cook for them too - when they can relax their cover a bit. The food represents their former identities. When Philip rejected it, Elizabeth probably took it as a rejection, not only of her love offering, but of that Russian identity. Again, the common stew is a staple of many cultures and it was silly that anyone would peg that particular dish as "Russian". 6 hours ago, Bannon said: After that ridiculous dialogue while doing the dishes, I don't think the Renee arc has any hope of being salvageable. Why the hell they spent the money to hire a recognizable actor like Laurie Holden for this is unfathomable. I sometimes think they hired her purely for her amazing body the one time Stan was in bed with her. Elizabeth is fit, but Renee's muscle tone is insane. I am a much younger woman and she makes want to go live at the gym and eat nothing but kale smoothies for a year. 6 hours ago, RedHawk said: To be fair, our Liz was visibly struggling when she choked the warehouse guy and was completely winded when he finally gave up the ghost. She’s getting older and one thing we have never seen is Elizabeth and Philip doing physical training exercises to keep in the top shape they were in when they first arrived in America in their 20s. I felt that a big man like that would have fought harder and more desperately for his life, using his full body weight against his attacker. Eh, add him to Elizabeth’s sky-rocketing kill count. Good thing that Housekeeping didn’t knock on the door during the interview. How do you solve a problem like Renee? When chatting with Henry, Stan said that as an agent he couldn’t trust anyone, not even his own wife, or Henry his young neighbor-pal. Yet now Renée’s ridiculous sudden desire to be an FBI agent doesn’t ring one tiny alarm bell? Sigh. I hope it actually does and he’s playing cool and preparing to do some background check on her — which makes me think, wouldn’t he have done one anyway prior to marriage? I hope the financial problem with Henry’s school will indeed be an excuse to bring him home, probably quite sullen. Henry will enter the Jennings household with fresh eyes and likely pick up on a lot of things that obtuse Paige (supersmart spy!) just can’t see. Next, Renee will want to be an astronaut cowgirl ballerina scientist..."You can totally make that happen right, Stan"? 6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said: I suspect Henry would be a very unhappy camper if he has to leave that school. Plus, he's a senior now right? If so, he will be graduating in in the Spring. Then college....oh my...that's even more expensive. lol 5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said: Time is moving away from Elizabeth and Philip like it does us all to a certain extent but worse. I think when P&E were talking about Russia and Philip asked her how she knew what the people wanted that she hadn’t spoken to them in twenty years or something like that was an incredibly telling conversation. Elizabeth is an old world Russian Hardliner who wouldn’t recognize Russia under Gorbachev. Philip for all his Americanization has spent most of his life with one foot in both worlds but not really in either. I am not sure he truly understands how to run a business much less a successful one without the backing of the KGB. This is the guy who gave freebies to his friend to keep him on the hook. He passes off big accounts to his underlings because it is probably what he has always done because his “other job” came first. Philip likes the trappings of capitalism but not the work. 5 hours ago, sistermagpie said: Yeah, it's a great metaphor. She's blaming the US for how she feels instead of looking internally and accepting that foreign countries are gonna foreign country. Also I thought it was interesting that she was seething about how angry she was just having to walk out Claudia's door back into the US when they were going back to Russia before she stopped them. She's no doubt resenting Philip for representing the US here but she's the one that actually needed to stay. They could have been having this Perestroika fight in Moscow! Yeah, I thought that was significant too. Philip didn't claim to be speaking for people back home but Elizabeth very clearly did. Also it's nice that at the end of the episode Philip actually was speaking with somebody from back home--that is, from back home now rather than another Illegal who's been here for years. As Chaos Theory said above, it's not that Philip's American, it's that he's got a foot in both worlds. He's an outsider and an insider in both and it's always been that way. He never completely fits in. Every single one of my instincts about how to pronounce Russian words is wrong so I'm not surprised. (I swear I've been known to get the stress wrong in words with only one syllable.) None of this would apply to Elizabeth and Claudia, of course. In fact, the two of them would probably be intentionally peppering their conversation with Russian phrases if they're trying to get her into the whole spirit of the thing. But nobody wants to hear that. But just in general yes, in my experience the American instinct at stress is always wrong. (Obvious examples: babYSHka or BAba YAga, EYE-van.) It's a shame with Oleg, though, because his name is so much nicer-sounding when pronounced correctly. It's like Gabriel said about his past during the Purges--he told himself he was setting a good example but he was really acting out of fear. Here Elizabeth even connected her faith in the Cause to her not being afraid. She can't let a single crack show, can't let herself feel any of that. Gets overly defensive at the idea that kids in the USSR in the 80s might not totally agree with the 40-something lady in the US. Even her "Russian culture" classes just fill her with new rage. I do wonder what we're supposed to make of these classes because they really play like Paige is just a girl who likes the attention and bonding of these sessions rather than anyone who's developed a minimal interest in Russian culture. She's dutifully learning the mangled names of Russian dishes and watching movies and whatever, but the whole thing seems a little silly. Like there's no actual reason she needs to be exposed to these things. It's just like a shared delusion that they can remake her into someone who had the Russian childhood of Elizabeth's imagination. Like she's really one of them. I hope that causes conflict later. Like if Paige finds the dignity to consider asking to be loved as herself. She'd obviously be just as happy making stir fry vegetables in a wok. I wonder if she ever has the nerve to say she doesn't like something. It would probably cause a major problem. (Like Megan Draper not liking orange sherbet.) LOL. If Elizabeth had been talking to her she would have been beheaded. Not ruling that out for next week. Elizabeth will totally be given the job of slaughtering those two. You know she will. I also predict that Philip will tell Henry he has to maybe leave school and Henry will get all ugly rich capitalist and act like going to public school is a fate worse than a Siberian prison camp. Thus again getting a lesson in the ugly side of capitalism and the American dream of your kids having it better than you did. Or else Henry will turn out to be like his father and help out. That's a part of Philip's childhood that's never been much focused on. (Psych--none of it's been focused on!) It's kind of fitting for Elizabeth and Claudia, though. That they're so try-hard about the whole thing, desperate to act like it's super special when Paige could probably go to a Russian restaurant run by Russians and just order it. I always remember Claudia's pointing out that the super wheat thing they killed to get had a strain of Russian wheat in it, like that meant the US kinda stole it or that the Russians had kinda invented it because their wheat was superior. It makes them seem like they're over-compensating. I mean, I totally buy them just having a rule of not having it in the house because they know it's Russian. But in general these lessons just seem that way. Too bad when they picked this guy out to target they didn't think to check into who he was dating. Poor Philip's always being accused of not liking Russian food--it would be great if part of the reason for that is that he grew up to poor to actually have memories of this stuff. I'll have to watch the scene again, but don't they start talking about Perestroika while he's eating it? I thought it was more just a metaphor for Philip's position in general, that he's "becoming Americanized" in the same way Russia is. That is, he doesn't need to revere all Russian food above all else. No, I think he's a junior. What would be interesting is that we know Elizabeth doesn't actually care about the travel agency, but obviously she doesn't want it causing inconveniences in her home life. I wonder how she'd react to Henry having to come home and basically react to him as if he's just a big inconvenience. 3 hours ago, benteen said: If this is the case, it's another indication that the writing has really gotten sloppy since Season 5 and it doesn't bode well that the writers are going to stick the landing in the end. Yeah, I thought Henry had a full scholarship too and I don't get the retcon. The administrator's behavior doesn't make sense either. According to him, Philip has never missed a payment before and if this is a "first offense" for the parents of a top student, why was he treating Philip like a guy who is never on time with his payments? 1 hour ago, scowl said: For the third episode in a row, Elizabeth kills a guy right at the hour mark. This show is like Groundhog Day! Next week E kills a 400-pound bodybuilder by just touching him with her delicate little pinky. 1 hour ago, CaliCheeseSucks said: I vote a third option: both things. One of the writing fails that leads me to believe the writers really did not have their ducks in a row from the beginning as to how they would get from A-Z by the end. I know some viewers, myself included, suspected her appearance in his life (from the way they met) was not intended to be viewed as accidental. She surely would have hit the wall with Stan's discretion with work talk well before the three-year mark. Then again, it could be just another red herring or dropped plotline in a series that is littered with them - the girl on the bus who drew Paige into Pastor Tim's ministry, Kimmie, wheat, the drawn-out drama of Philip's son coming to America (only to turn right around and go home), on and on. Seven hours is not a lot of time to finish assembling a puzzle that once seemed intriguing and enigmatic but now seems just a jumble of ill-fitting pieces of 'whatever works, use it.' I am getting bad Battle Star Galactica flashbacks where the creator assured us there was a plan and then many years later admitted that it was a total lie. I am one of the few people who are actually happy that Philip is having financial trouble and is no just super businessman extraordinaire. Business is really hard. You could have a great product or service that is not scalable, or you expand too quickly, or market tastes change on a dime. or you alienate your core customer base, etc...the list can go on forever. The truth is Capitalism was never easy and yes, the odds are stacked against the little guy who does not have a ton of money or connections. I hate it on TV when someone on tv has one experience in a business and is shown being amazingly successful in about a year. Phillip expanded in boom times and now the market has changed. Instead of primo customized packages, more people are opting for lower-end budget deals for their vacations. If Phillip starts offering lower budget deals, he will not be able to cover the costs of business the way it is now. He will probably have to let people go and downsize to a smaller operation. This would have been excellent stuff to handle last season instead of watching wheat grow. Edited April 12, 2018 by qtpye 8 Link to comment
RedHawk April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, qtpye said: I sometimes think they hired purely for her amazing body the one time Stan was in bed with her. Elizabeth is fit, but Renee's muscle tone is insane. I am a much younger woman and she makes want to go live at the gym and eat nothing but kale smoothies for a year. I totally thought the same thing the first time I saw her in her aerobics outfit. Then I thought, "She's built like a Russian tank!" 1 Link to comment
Blakeston April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 2 hours ago, shura said: It still feels not very logical though. Elizabeth kept telling him not to tell anybody about the "audit" and presumably felt it was enough to let him live, even though he could have totally been friends with all kinds of people in security that she did not know about. Then he tells her that he does, in fact, know people in security. What does that change? The risk does not increase, she simply becomes aware of it. Why not stress again that he cannot tell anybody, even his girlfriend? He had signed the confidentiality agreement after all. There are a lot of people out there who tell their significant others everything and anything. An employee with a girlfriend in security is much more likely to blab to security than your average employee. Elizabeth could tell him, "You're not allowed to talk to anyone about this, not even your girlfriend," but he wouldn't necessarily have listened. And he had assumed security already knew, so telling him that he can't talk to someone in security might make him question the legitimacy of her operation. 7 Link to comment
Bannon April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 Writing the travel agency, and the Jennings, as having money problems could make a lot of sense, and provide interesting avenues to conflict, and the eventual final resolution of this show. The writers sure appear to be screwing it up, however. Link to comment
shura April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, qtpye said: Adherholt-Stan you have to handle everything because you are so awesome. Only you have the brains to point out after three years our source is a moron and the mission is useless. <...> Sophia totally played the FBI for nothing. She got a big wad of cash, her teeth fixed, and now she and her child can live under FBI protection forever. She will now run through American guys like water. I think they are also showing how caring the Americans are to this totally useless source by coming in as saving her life like knights in shining armor as compared to the KGB who do not even care about protecting a valuable asset like Elizabeth. I am not sure she is the moron, actually. It was Stan's and Aderholt's idea to recruit her, she didn't even want to do it at first. Nor was it her idea to go into witness protection now. Basically, she was begged to accept the wads of cash and anything else she wants (like dental) in exchange to just doing whatever she would be doing otherwise, and then told that the US government is going to take care of her, thank you very much. It's pretty smart to accept all of that, don't you think? Of course, now Elizabeth is coming for her, so yeah... Well, maybe she'll get lucky again. 1 Link to comment
qtpye April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, RedHawk said: I totally thought the same thing the first time I saw her in her aerobics outfit. Then I thought, "She's built like a Russian tank!" It is ironic that we actually have a woman on the show that is built to handle a fair fight, but last seasons we only saw wimpy Paige tussle with laundry bags. 2 minutes ago, shura said: I am not sure she is the moron, actually. It was Stan's and Aderholt's idea to recruit her, she didn't even want to do it at first. Nor was it her idea to go into witness protection now. Basically, she was begged to accept the wads of cash and anything else she wants (like dental) in exchange to just doing whatever she would be doing otherwise, and then told that the US government is going to take care of her, thank you very much. It's pretty smart to accept all of that, don't you think? Of course, now Elizabeth is coming for her, so yeah... Well, maybe she'll get lucky again. She totally played the FBI for no payoff. Her being a moron was that she had no assurance that Stan would come in and save her like that. He could have just said fuck it...made an anonymous call to the right people and she would have suffered the same fate as Nina under her own government for being a traitor. Her son would be taken away from her and perhaps grow into another Elizabeth (since he would have to live with the fact his mother dishonored the cause), but we know the Soviet Union will collapse soon (though the characters do not). 2 Link to comment
sistermagpie April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Bannon said: Writing the travel agency, and the Jennings, as having money problems could make a lot of sense, and provide interesting avenues to conflict, and the eventual final resolution of this show. The writers sure appear to be screwing it up, however. I was listening to a conversation about the show Barry that made me think about Philip here. Barry's about a hit man who starts taking acting classes and someone said it asks the question of what if the thing your good at is the thing that destroys your soul, but the thing that makes you feel good spiritually you suck at? Though I don't think Philip is supposed to suck at being a travel agent. It's just also not something he's super good at naturally. He doesn't get it the way he gets spying. He isn't prepared for stuff like cash flow problems or getting bigger etc. Also I like that it's not like this makes him happy--he's miserable without Elizabeth too. And I like the idea that in the end he actually does get more satisfaction out of spying than being a travel agent. It's kind of great how in this ep he's trying to do the travel agent thing and obviously not enjoying the money issues or having to try to make his employees magically make more money and when he finally seems to do something just because he's making the choice to do it it's to go see Oleg. Maybe he's not totally happy about that either, but he knows what he's doing and why. He finally looks like himself again and he's not quoting EST or a business book. Which is fine with me, I just wish they didn't add this element that they haven't earned with his kid in private school. I also love that Costa Ronin in that scene gives that little smile. It wouldn't be right for Philip to smile there, but Oleg's smile is perfect with multiple meanings. But one of them definitely gave the impression of Philip sort of coming home. It's probably the most optimistic ending of an ep yet this season. 6 Link to comment
jjj April 12, 2018 Share April 12, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, sistermagpie said: I also love that Costa Ronin in that scene gives that little smile. It wouldn't be right for Philip to smile there, but Oleg's smile is perfect with multiple meanings. But one of them definitely gave the impression of Philip sort of coming home. It's probably the most optimistic ending of an ep yet this season. That little smile of Oleg was everything. Best seduction in the entire series. Edited April 12, 2018 by jjj 3 Link to comment
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