Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Genki]

I think there was a moment in 4.10 when Anarky was crushing on Thea, that I thought it would be cool to have Thea drawn to wanting chaos and enjoying their encounters/clashes because of the thrill and freedom and adrenaline vs. being a hero with an (unwritten) code of conduct and normal boyfriend. Of course they would have to write about her and not Malcolm or Oliver.

[Password]

My greatest fear for this season is the writers having Felicity realise sometimes lying is the best option.

They already set Felicity up during episode 14 when she defended Quinton but I REALLY hope Felicity's stance on partnership wins at the end of the season and into the next.

[BkWurm1]

It's always been what the lying is about though.  She was sympathetic that Quentin was trying to protect her mom and she's fine lying to the public and her mom about Team Arrow, it's the context of Oliver's lie, that he would exclude her from this huge part of his life just as they are getting ready to make promises to share one life forever. 

 

She wasn't upset at all when Oliver kept his plan to fight on Nyssa's behalf a secret since what he didn't keep silent was the problem he was seeking a solution to. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

I really don't think it was the lying. She's been okay with lying in the past. I think it was the excluding her from major life decisions & discussions. So I hope he learns to include her in the future.

Onto a completely different hope - I really want the Queens to become uber rich again. I want to know that they can do just about anything they want because of endless funs. I really want the Bruce Wayne-Lite back when it comes to finances.

I know FS is rich now, but she has to work for that. I just want OQ back being so rich on his own, so Dig can make his comments like he did in the Dodger episode about the family jewels. Can't they find some hidden or lost funds that were not seized by plot stupidity? It's bad enough we lost thr mansion in the comics :(

[bijoux]

Did the mansion burn down in the comics? Because I see references to it being burnt down from time to time and I have no recollection of that ever happening on the show.

[statsgirl]

I think it was in the 2.5 comics that it burnt down.

[DeadZeus]

Maybe someone already said it somewhere but i can't see it.

What was up with DD putting on his ring at the end of episode 16 i believe, it looked like a cliffhanger ending and he had a big smile but... Did anything happen with that ring?

[kismet]

Yes according to those who read the 2.5 comics it burnt down, can't remember why. I think MG even reinforced the fact on social media.

[Morrigan2575]

No, nothing happened with the ring.  I know many suspected that it was going to turn out to be a secondary source of power or give Ruve a larger role in DD's escape.  In retrospect it appears as though it was just to show that DD wasn't beaten/broken and was already planning his way out.

[ComicFan777]

Yes according to those who read the 2.5 comics it burnt down, can't remember why. I think MG even reinforced the fact on social media.

 

Caleb Green burned down the Queen mansion.  Caleb's father was a QC employee who had gone crazy and had blamed Robert Queen for taking everything away from him, and ended up killing himself and his wife with his son watching.  Caleb, now orphaned, blamed the Queen family and wanted vengeance - he kidnapped Laurel to lure Oliver to the Queen mansion and wanted to burn the mansion down with them both inside it - ultimately, Caleb ended up dying in the mansion while it burned down.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ComicFan777

[bijoux]

Did anyone not get kidnapped in the 2.5 comics?

[SmallScreenDiva]

There's talk in the Spoiler Discussion thread about Thea and what the team could be doing next season. I think Oliver becomes mayor next season. Digg will be his head of security. I would rather Thea find a job at Palmer Tech to give her and Felicity more time together but she will probably end up as Oliver's chief of staff or something despite the fact she has absolutely no experience as an actual political operative and would get eaten alive in the real world. I'm not too worried that Felicity, in this scenario, doesn't seem to be in Oliver's "regular" orbit because I'm hoping they'd actually be back together at this point. But Arrow does need to play around with its groupings/pairings. I'd love to see more Thea/Digg, Digg/Felicity, Felicity/Thea or even Thea/Digg/Felicity while Oliver is trying to solve some City Hall crisis. These actors actually work well together and have chemistry and I think the show can have some fun with them. Also, I know it sounds fanfic-y, but Oliver and Felicity using their public personas for undercover missions is something I've been waiting for forever. They can even let Donna and Quentin tag along (and have Paul Blackthorne use his native accent). There's so much potential for Arrow to be able to reinvent and improve itself in Season 5.

[KirkB]

I get that in Star City the Mayor probably spends most of their day in a bunker in anticipation of the next big attack, so they wouldn't necessarily be in the public eye all the time, but I don't see how Oliver could legitimately be in the office making big political decisions then suddenly go "Gang, let's take a break!" so he can go put on green leather and shoot arrows at people. Bruce Wayne at least has the benefit of being the majority shareholder of his company and left the day to day running of the business to the people actually capable of doing it, while he reaped the rewards. Oliver as a club owner, whose lair was downstairs, also made sense because he could leave Thea or whoever in charge and take off whenever he wanted.

Edited April 30, 2016 by KirkB

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, KirkB said:

I get that in Star City the Mayor probably spends most of their day in a bunker in anticipation of the next big attack, so they wouldn't necessarily be in the public eye all the time, but I don't see how Oliver could legitimately be in the office making big political decisions then suddenly go "Gang, let's take a break!" so he can go put on green leather and shoot arrows at people. Bruce Wayne at least has the benefit of being the majority shareholder of his company and left the day to day running of the business to the people actually capable of doing it, while he reaped the rewards. Oliver as a club owner, whose lair was downstairs, also made sense because he could leave Thea or whoever in charge and take off whenever he wanted.

What's this logic you speak and why should any of us think Arrow would take realism into account?  Lol.  :)

[bijoux]

20 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I would rather Thea find a job at Palmer Tech to give her and Felicity more time together but she will probably end up as Oliver's chief of staff or something despite the fact she has absolutely no experience as an actual political operative and would get eaten alive in the real world. 

She's definitely not qualified for the CoS position, but I'm a bit stumped as to what she could do at PT either. Stylist, social media maven? Maybe Gerry adopts and takes a leave of absence to take care of the new baby, so she steps in as Felicity's EA? And Felicity could maybe scoff a bit. Not the Queen I had in mind for he position when I was having revenge fantasies three years ago.

[wonderwall]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

What's this logic you speak and why should any of us think Arrow would take realism into account?  Lol.  :)

Remember, criminal activity only occurs after office hours ;) 

[BkWurm1]

They could stick Thea in Public Relations or the office that makes charitable grants.  She might even get to plan a party or two. 

What was the job at PT that Alex didn't end up taking?

Edited April 30, 2016 by BkWurm1

[KirkB]

Quote

Remember, criminal activity only occurs after office hours ;) 

Oh, right.  :)

Criminal Underlings in Star City: Sir! The Green Arrow and his pals only come out at night, and the city only seems to have one competent police officer, who also only works at night. Maybe we should try doing more stuff during the day?

Boss: Have that man shot! Now, for tonight's plan....

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Oh, right.  :)

Criminal Underlings in Star City: Sir! The Green Arrow and his pals only come out at night, and the city only seems to have one competent police officer, who also only works at night. Maybe we should try doing more stuff during the day?

Boss: Have that man shot! Now, for tonight's plan....

Plot twist, all villains in Star City are vampires lol

[KirkB]

Quote

Plot twist, all villains in Star City are vampires lol

Which makes operating in Star City, where two of the vigilantes shoot stakes, a REALLY bad idea.  :)

Edited April 30, 2016 by KirkB

[bijoux]

You just spoiled season 6.

[SmallScreenDiva]

14 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

They could stick Thea in Public Relations.  She might even get to plan a party or two. 

What was the job at PT that Alex didn't end up taking?

That would be the best place to put her at Palmer Tech, not as the head, which was the job Alex was supposed to apply for, but as one of the underlings. I think Thea has the instinctive knowledge needed for PR and the girl definitely has connections so she'd be a great fit. But LBR, this is Arrow so she'll probably end up in a job she's totally not suited for :P

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, KirkB said:

Which makes operating in Star City, where two of the vigilantes shoot stakes, a REALLY bad idea.  :)

I think we've all established that people in Star City are incredibly stupid just for living there :p it's probably the evil corn's doing! *gasp*! 

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

That would be the best place to put her at Palmer Tech, not as the head, which was the job Alex was supposed to apply for, but as one of the underlings. I think Thea has the instinctive knowledge needed for PR and the girl definitely has connections so she'd be a great fit. But LBR, this is Arrow so she'll probably end up in a job she's totally not suited for :P

Or they just continue to have her live off the money she got from Malcolm.  I do kind of love that she hates his guts but got all his legally recognized fortune at least.  I'd prefer him broke but we all know dude probably had lots of hidden accounts.

[KirkB]

Maybe Thea could use some of Malcolm's money to open her own company? I'm not sure what it'd do, but since this is Star City no one looks too close. Then she could hire Alex and Oliver and it could be built right over their lair for convenience. 

[BkWurm1]

Absolutely above the lair but ixnay on hiring Alex.  I don't see any reason to keep him around. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I can't remember where I saw it on this board but someone had mentioned wanting Oliver to be rich again and I'm all for that. Having Felicity fund everything this season created some weirdness, for me anyway, when they split up. It could be easily explained as Oliver making millions from his shares at PT, leftovers from when Queens still held control. I imagine PT as a combo of Apple/Facebook of the tech world now after the introduction of its revolutionary battery.

[AyChihuahua]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Or they just continue to have her live off the money she got from Malcolm.  I do kind of love that she hates his guts but got all his legally recognized fortune at least.  I'd prefer him broke but we all know dude probably had lots of hidden accounts.

I realize it's probably silly to say this, bc the law stuff on Arrow is uniformly batshit crazy, but unless she were legally recognized as his daughter she would not have received his legally recognized fortune (even more real life...there would be no fortune to inherit bc both he as an individual and Merlyn Global would be sued into utter penury). I am pretty sure, bordering on positive, that her being his daughter is not known. I'm pretty sure he just gave her some of those hidden accounts of which you speak.

[BkWurm1]

I'm remembering mentions of lawyers tracking her down.  No explanations for how (Malcolm probably told them) but they passed it off as her getting it legitimately.  Or at least that seemed to be what she told Oliver and was never contested by the show.  I'm vague on facts 'cause I think I've read too many fan fics that actually do explain it.

[bijoux]

You know, now that you bring it up, it actually seemed to me that the inheritance was just a story that Thea sold Oliver and Malcolm either unloaded a ton of funds on her at once or gave it to her in smaller, but still sizable chunks on a more or less regular basis.

[Genki]

Clock Tower thread was talking about Slade vs. Malcolm as a series long villain. I just wanted to say how much I wanted Arrow to keep Slade as a reluctant occasional ally/antagonist once the mirakuru was out of his system. 

I love the development of the Deadshot/Diggle relationship and would like to see some similar with with Oliver/Slade.

If they had put more villains on Lian Yu, they could have teamed up as a big bad for S5 or S6

[AyChihuahua]

45 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm remembering mentions of lawyers tracking her down.  No explanations for how (Malcolm probably told them) but they passed it off as her getting it legitimately.  Or at least that seemed to be what she told Oliver and was never contested by the show.  I'm vague on facts 'cause I think I've read too many fan fics that actually do explain it.

They could backdate some documents and have chunks of cash be "gifts" from him to her prior to his death. But she wouldn't have been in his will bc he had no idea when he "died" that she was his daughter (and in fact told Oliver he was going to murder both her and Moira; no show, I have not forgotten), which could still involve lawyers. But she can't INHERIT without being legally declared MM's daughter, which would put her in so much danger, and would be complicated as hell, because Malcolm can't CLAIM her as his daughter, bc he's dead, there's no DNA of his or even his other kid to compare her to without digging up Tommy's corpse, and Robert is almost certainly named on her birth certificate. In fact, in most states a child born during the marriage is presumed to be the child of the married parents, and changing that is a huge PITA.

I think that he just transferred funds over, though. Nothing official. I think Thea may have told Oliver it involved lawyers because she wasn't supposed to know Malcolm was alive at that point, and I think Oliver didn't even know Malcolm was alive at that point. Oliver's way too dumb to figure out that anything official/involving lawyers wouldn't work and so the money would have had to come from an alive Malcolm, so she just lied about how she got the money.

14 minutes ago, Genki said:

Clock Tower thread was talking about Slade vs. Malcolm as a series long villain. I just wanted to say how much I wanted Arrow to keep Slade as a reluctant occasional ally/antagonist once the mirakuru was out of his system. 

I love the development of the Deadshot/Diggle relationship and would like to see some similar with with Oliver/Slade.

If they had put more villains on Lian Yu, they could have teamed up as a big bad for S5 or S6

That's a toughie. I have a very hard time believing Oliver and/or Thea could ever work with him after he murdered their mother in front of them. But those two are weirdly forgiving? I think they only are okay-ish with Malcolm because of the whole stupid BLOOOOOOD thing, but Digg did sort of forgive Deadshot for "killing" his brother, so maybe?

Edited April 30, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[bijoux]

You know who I want? I want a new Count. It feels like it's a title that would be snatched up just like it was in season 3 by Peter Stormare. Now, I didn't like him in the part, but it brings the crime fighting back to its basics which I liked. Plus it's an old threat that keeps growing and morphing. You get rid of one and another hurries to jump in the empty spot.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 

They could backdate some documents and have chunks of cash be "gifts" from him to her prior to his death. But she wouldn't have been in his will bc he had no idea when he "died" that she was his daughter (and in fact told Oliver he was going to murder both her and Moira; no show, I have not forgotten), which could still involve lawyers. But she can't INHERIT without being legally declared MM's daughter, which would put her in so much danger, and would be complicated as hell, because Malcolm can't CLAIM her as his daughter, bc he's dead, ,there's no DNA of his or even his other kid to compare her to without digging up Tommy's corpse and Robert is almost certainly named on her birth certificate. In fact, in most states a child born during the marriage is presumed to be the child of the married parents, and changing that is a huge PITA.

I think that he just transferred funds over, though. Nothing official. I think Thea may have told Oliver it involved lawyers because she wasn't supposed to know Malcolm was alive at that point, and I think Oliver didn't even know Malcolm was alive at that point. Oliver's way too dumb to figure out that anything official/involving lawyers wouldn't work and so the money would have had to come from an alive Malcolm, so she just lied about how she got the money.

 

We don't know that there wouldn't be any DNA, just some good follicles in a hairbrush could do the trick, not to mention since Malcolm was alive he could have finagled it so Thea as his daughter was discovered through some legal process.  Now, it wouldn't shock me if the show ever decided to say that Thea lied to Oliver, but so far that isn't the story they've told.  There's been nothing to say that Thea didn't get the money as an inheritance since all we have is Thea saying that's how she did get it and no one ever contradicting that.  So until further notice, I have to accept it as the show's truth. 

Again, wouldn't shock me if they choose to reveal a different truth down the line since that would be easier but this is the show that had Laurel lead lawyer trying to put away her ex boyfriend's mother for murder.  The realities of all that would be involved (plus potentially exposing Thea's parentage - that should have been in the oppositional research don't you think?) make what the show told us shaky but it doesn't mean the show isn't pretending it all makes perfect sense. 

[AyChihuahua]

52 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

We don't know that there wouldn't be any DNA, just some good follicles in a hairbrush could do the trick, not to mention since Malcolm was alive he could have finagled it so Thea as his daughter was discovered through some legal process.  Now, it wouldn't shock me if the show ever decided to say that Thea lied to Oliver, but so far that isn't the story they've told.  There's been nothing to say that Thea didn't get the money as an inheritance since all we have is Thea saying that's how she did get it and no one ever contradicting that.  So until further notice, I have to accept it as the show's truth. 

 

How in the world are they going to prove random hairs in a brush in a house that has been abandoned for years are Malcolm's? That would never, ever be allowed in court. And again, letting people know that Thea is Malcolm's kid would put a huge bullseye on her back. Malcolm is a mass murderer with hundreds if not thousands of enemies. Why would they do that? 

And the show didn't establish that's how it actually happened. At most, Thea said that's how it happened, at the same time she was lying about everything else involving Malcolm. 

A lot of people talk about Laurel prosecuting Moira not being allowed, but that's not actually correct. In general most states' ethical rules would not prohibit that. Most DAs wouldn't allow it for tactical reasons, primarily not believing the lawyer would do her best, but I can't offhand think of any ethical rules that would flat-out forbid it.

Thea being MM's daughter wasn't discovered in oppo research when MOIRA was running for mayor. Why would it be discovered when Oliver is? And the oppo research didn't even show that HE had a kid, so there wasn't a whole lot of oppo research done, period. 

Finally, we've seen nearly two years of the show since she showed that she has money, and no one has mentioned anyone outside their group knowing, ever. I mean, Alex wanted Oliver to dump Laurel as a friend, but never once mentioned how to spin Thea being the daughter of the mass murderer who caused an earthquake in the city? Oh, and Oliver told Nyssa...if it was general knowledge that Malcolm is her father, Oliver wouldn't have had to tell her, instead she would have just kidnapped Thea in the first place instead of only doing it AFTER Oliver told her. The LOA was up on their general doings, see, e.g., RAG knowing about Oliver's exploits ("And what of Queen.") If it was general knowledge that she's his kid, they would have known, and RAG probably would have used Thea to bait out Malcolm. (Nyssa is too good to do that in any serious way and RAG was no longer interested in Malcolm, but instead had focused on Oliver, by the time he found out.)

Edited May 1, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[ohjoy]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

You know who I want? I want a new Count. It feels like it's a title that would be snatched up just like it was in season 3 by Peter Stormare. Now, I didn't like him in the part, but it brings the crime fighting back to its basics which I liked. Plus it's an old threat that keeps growing and morphing. You get rid of one and another hurries to jump in the empty spot.

I want a new Count as well, but for my own selfish reasons -- namely, that Count episodes seem to be weirdly tied to Olicity moments/developments (the syringe/sports bottle scene in S1, "there was no choice to make" in S2, almost all of the S3 premiere -- you get the idea). But while I didn't like Peter Stormare's turn in the role (I really enjoyed Seth Gabel though), I definitely wouldn't mind see a new Count turn up every season or two if I thought the writers were capable of good plot turns for each successive one.

[ComicFan777]

I think Malcolm mentioned that he still has access to his offshore accounts.  If they are under his aliases, then he can just add Thea's name as an authorized user to those offshore accounts - they don't need to be related for him to make the request to the bank.  She can then transfer the money to her accounts in Star City, since her name is on those accounts, too...or he can just directly transfer money to her account from any of his offshore ones that are under an alias.  This way, she doesn't have to prove that she is Malcolm's daughter to get access to his money.

[Chaser]

I want more VOTW episodes. I want more helping the every person. I want Leverage style takedowns. I want big belly dinners in the Arrow Cave. I want big Team episodes and little Team ups - Thea/Felicity, Thea/Diggle, Diggle/Felicity, Diggle/Lance, Thea/Lance/Felicity, Lyla/Thea/Felicity, Oliver/Donna, etc..

[Guest]

I'd like to see more of their lives outside Team Arrow. Yes, I know this show is mainly about them fighting bad guys but it felt more fleshed out when we saw moments outside of that. Oliver taking Moira to Big Belly Burger in s1 was great. I loved the dinner with Diggle, Lyla, Felicity, Thea and baby Sara in s3 after Oliver joined the LOA too.

I also want to see the team struggle with the balance of working and being on the team. We've seen a bit of that with Felicity (and to an extent Oliver with running for Mayor) but what do Diggle and Thea do for work/money? 

They just need to open up their world a bit more.

[kismet]

10 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I can't remember where I saw it on this board but someone had mentioned wanting Oliver to be rich again and I'm all for that. Having Felicity fund everything this season created some weirdness, for me anyway, when they split up. It could be easily explained as Oliver making millions from his shares at PT, leftovers from when Queens still held control. I imagine PT as a combo of Apple/Facebook of the tech world now after the introduction of its revolutionary battery.

That was me! I so just want him to filthy bloody rich again for a million reasons. All of which basically amount to why not? Honestly, I'm bored as hell with the thought of watching him perform mayoral duties. I like s1 when he was rich and just threw his money into his mission and his club to cover his mission. S2 was fine when he tried to balance QC & secret identities. But being a mayor is just so boring. There is no glamour or excitement. At least the club was flashy & QC had lovely glass offices. The guy's main purpose in life is to save the city, he does that best at night in green leather. I know being a mayor is a noble way to save the city, but so is being a philanthropic rich guy setting up charities and throwing galas. We all know the Queens excel at party planning.  Find the Queen/Dearden money, set-up a charity and let the Queens be Queens.

As for Thea, I really hope they find a better way to utilize her. I think they need to ditch Alex. And I think MM needs to leave SC and go hang out being a bad guy far away from TQ, which is what I thought they would do with LoA/NP until they decided to mess up that plan. I was thinking the other day she should go back to school. There has to be a College conveniently located in SC. She could study during the day interacted w/ cool CW pretty people and fight crime at night. Sorta like Sydney in s1 of Alias, which had some charm to it. This could buy the show some time while they find a real profession for her. Since making her chief of staff is going to be snoozefest and working at PT just seems like a stretch for these writers.

I'm also really over PT, I hate that it is not QC anymore because its a constant reminder of the crap logic of s2 that stripped away the Queen fortune, leaving it vulnerable to Palmer. I don't need a weekly reminder of how much s3 sucked and when I see the PT sets & hear the name that is all I think about. They need to make it either a Queen or Smoak business and they need to do it now. I felt very torn when FS was making her battery pitch because there was a big part of me that wanted her to fail, so that PT would fail and we could be done with it. However, I also wanted her to succeed because she's cool and I like seeing female leadership being shown in a positive light. But for me PT needs to go, in fact it's probably top on the list of characters/places that need to go.

[kismet]

5 hours ago, bijoux said:

You know who I want? I want a new Count. It feels like it's a title that would be snatched up just like it was in season 3 by Peter Stormare. Now, I didn't like him in the part, but it brings the crime fighting back to its basics which I liked. Plus it's an old threat that keeps growing and morphing. You get rid of one and another hurries to jump in the empty spot.

I think this is very possible... since the Count had ties to

Spoiler

Bratva and I think Bratva is coming next season

.... way too excited for it. Need to keep my expectations in check.

But Count me in on wanting a new Count :)

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

How in the world are they going to prove random hairs in a brush in a house that has been abandoned for years are Malcolm's? That would never, ever be allowed in court.

Presumably the cops would have/could have gone over his residence and taken it right after the undertaking right from his room so there would be a secure chain of custody.  Also there would have been blood evidence on the roof. Maybe even already on his medical files for whatever reason.  There would be possible avenues including MM retroactively having that kind of information planted on file somewhere.   

Quote

And again, letting people know that Thea is Malcolm's kid would put a huge bullseye on her back. Malcolm is a mass murderer with hundreds if not thousands of enemies. Why would they do that? 

She did have a bullseye on her back.  That was why both she and Malcolm were being chased even before anyone knew she was involved in Sara's death.  When Malcolm was trying to flee, he insisted Thea couldn't stay behind because they would go after her to get to him. DJ Douche Bag tried to kill her.  Nyssa didn't know the connection but Ra's had someone on her already. 

Quote

And the show didn't establish that's how it actually happened. At most, Thea said that's how it happened, at the same time she was lying about everything else involving Malcolm. 

The show also didn't establish that it didn't happen exactly as she said, minus the part where Malcolm was still alive.  We have one version of how she got the money that hasn't been contradicted by either Thea or Malcolm and hasn't been addressed by anyone else.  So far I don't have enough reason to assume that Malcolm didn't make arrangements so it happened exactly like Thea said. 

Quote

Thea being MM's daughter wasn't discovered in oppo research when MOIRA was running for mayor. Why would it be discovered when Oliver is? And the oppo research didn't even show that HE had a kid, so there wasn't a whole lot of oppo research done, period. 

We can assume the opposition research wasn't a priority for Ruve' since worst case they'd just kill Oliver, lol.  The only reason why I would have expected the info to come out possibly for Oliver's campaign rather than Moira's would be because at least some lawyers would know the truth.  There probably is some legal gobbledegook that could hide just where her inheritance came from I guess.

Quote

Finally, we've seen nearly two years of the show since she showed that she has money, and no one has mentioned anyone outside their group knowing, ever. I mean, Alex wanted Oliver to dump Laurel as a friend, but never once mentioned how to spin Thea being the daughter of the mass murderer who caused an earthquake in the city? Oh, and Oliver told Nyssa...if it was general knowledge that Malcolm is her father, Oliver wouldn't have had to tell her, instead she would have just kidnapped Thea in the first place instead of only doing it AFTER Oliver told her.

Not hearing about her money doesn't mean much since we've also never heard how Diggle makes money.  We didn't even get an explanation for how Oliver was surviving most of season three.  I think it is clear that Alex didn't turn up the truth about her parantage but that could just mean descret lawyers.  So it's not common common knowledge.   

Quote

The LOA was up on their general doings, see, e.g., RAG knowing about Oliver's exploits ("And what of Queen.") If it was general knowledge that she's his kid, they would have known, and RAG probably would have used Thea to bait out Malcolm. (Nyssa is too good to do that in any serious way and RAG was no longer interested in Malcolm, but instead had focused on Oliver, by the time he found out.)

No, Nyssa didn't know but Ra's did have DJ Douchbag watching her trying to get to Malcolm.  Ra's knew of the relationship but he apparently was being subtle about it.  And as you said, by the time he had Malcolm, he no longer cared about him.  He just wanted Oliver and this time was much more interested in how he could use Thea to force Oliver to do his bidding.  But no one seemed surprised that Malcolm was there as Thea's dad. 

[thegirlsleuth]

I just watched the new episode, and it brought up a huge wish for me:  I really hope that Arrow doesn't have to launch anymore spinoffs next season. Related, I don't want any more guest heroes, although guest villains are fine.  The Flash was painless, but Ray Palmer in seasons 3 and 4, Sara in season 4, and the whole crossover event dedicated to the super-boring Hawks who I had no reason to care  really burned through airtime. Arrow basically spent 1.5 seasons launching spinoffs.   Seeing time dedicated to Baby Canary when we only have 5 more episodes and so many hanging threads (and where we may only have Neil McDonough for a few more episodes) seemed like such a huge waste.  They keep bringing in these people whom I'm supposed to care about and I just don't.

And since I'm wishing, please can we have better fight scenes next year?

[arjumand]

11 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I just watched the new episode, and it brought up a huge wish for me:  I really hope that Arrow doesn't have to launch anymore spinoffs next season. Related, I don't want any more guest heroes, although guest villains are fine.  The Flash was painless, but Ray Palmer in seasons 3 and 4, Sara in season 4, and the whole crossover event dedicated to the super-boring Hawks who I had no reason to care  really burned through airtime. Arrow basically spent 1.5 seasons launching spinoffs.   Seeing time dedicated to Baby Canary when we only have 5 more episodes and so many hanging threads (and where we may only have Neil McDonough for a few more episodes) seemed like such a huge waste.  They keep bringing in these people whom I'm supposed to care about and I just don't.

And since I'm wishing, please can we have better fight scenes next year?

Absolutely yes to everything, especially to the bit I bolded. Seeing all the talk about Baby Canary (who I now recognize from Supernatural, and who still can't fucking act! Whose niece / daughter / granddaughter is she? Why does she keep getting cast?) reminds me of a season finale on Criminal Minds, when a super annoying character was killed off, and the show made an incredible fuss about it, while us fans were online, doing the 'everyone exchange awkward virtual looks' posts. So, we were supposed to care about that character, huh? Who knew?

Don't get me started about Hawkpeople, especially re. latest developments on Legends of Tomorrow, which I'm currently hate-watching because of Sara and Snart:

Spoiler

Just when I thought it was safe because only one DullHawk was left: he's back! He's been reincarnated! His mind is locked away (#nochangethere)! Kendra the idiot sacrifices the future of the planet for her stupid boyfriend's brain. I have finally found the character worse than Laurel. Fuck me.

Re. better fight scenes next year - I feel like we've been saying this forever.

[kismet]

19 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I will quite frankly be shocked if anyone but Oliver beats Darhk. I don't think he'll necessarily kill him, but possibly drain him of his powers some way and thereby neutralize him. However, it's always been Oliver who has the final fight with the big bad, two of whom he was willing to kill, one whom he outwitted. As he's at the center, I expect the same this year. I wouldn't be against it being someone else, though. Who knows, maybe Ruve knocks off Darhk in the end. It's been implied (even if not all that successfully executed) that she's a Lady Macbeth figure.

Even if he drains him of his powers and makes it possible for DD to be defeated but doesn't deliver the final blow, that gives him the credit for the assist but not the actual kill. Similar to s2 where FS made it possible for OQ to defeat Slade, but it was OQ that technically killed Slade. And I think that is what is going to happen this season, almost as a way to prove that OQ/GA needs other people to achieve his final end goal. Just like in Harry Potter, where everything that Harry did made it possible for Voldemort to be defeated, but he is technically not the one that delivers the death blow it was Neville. I actually wonder if they will let Quentin have the final death blow because it will be "for Laurel". But also in a way absolve him for his part in allowing DD to take over his city.

From an overall perspective it will have been OQ that is the main hero facilitating the big battle & victory. So OQ will get the credit for the victory, but the official "kill" belongs to someone else if we're technically doing the stats.

[emarasmoak]

Well, I don't think that Neville did the final kill. Neville killed the snake but then Harry had a final battle usng the wand and this is when Voldemort dies.

Similar to S2 end: Felicity took away Slade's "magical" protection so Oliver could defeat him.

And I would also be surprised if the final victory is not Oliver's. This is Arrow, not Felicity and Friends (I would totally watch that show, btw)

Edited May 6, 2016 by emarasmoak

[wonderwall]

When people say Arrow can improve by stopping all the romantic drama... And while that's somewhat true, fixing the romantic drama won't fix everything...

Some things that the show can improve upon:

• Not bringing in more masked characters and just focus on the core of the show
• Developing the villain better. I saw someone post the timing for Damien and apparently he's only been in an hour of this season compared to Oliver's 8 hours and Felicity's 4 hours. 
• Developing the plot incrementally instead of dropping it completely and then picking it back up again for the last 4-5 episodes. 
• It's okay to have relationship drama, but the show should make them external problems NOT internal ones. Obviously when the writers try to create internal issues between Oliver/Felicity they end up writing for plot instead of character
• Focus less on the flashbacks. 3-5 minutes of flashbacks is enough for one episode and it's okay for some episodes to NOT have flashbacks too
• Write off characters who are unnecessary. The show suffers from a bloated cast as it is.
• Kill Malcolm OR at least keep him evil. The writers shouldn't try to bend over backwards to make him relevant.
• Steer clear from magical big baddies. It isn't good for the fight scenes. 
• Don't have the entire team go out into the field at once like they did earlier in the season
• No more spin-offs
• Bring back OTA interactions and integrate Thea into the team (and do a better job of it than the show did with Laurel)
• MORE LYLA
• Expand the Arrow world. Bring in civilian characters, bring in new sets, etc. 

Things this season started to improve upon:

• They seem to be cutting off dead weight (killing LL)
• Making Malcolm evil again
• The OTA interactions in the last 2 episodes have been wonderful
• More Lyla! :)
• To be fair the show has no say on whether they have be the springboard for another spin-off
• Expanding the Arrow world with Oliver's campaign, O/F going to Hub city, Genesis not being JUST about Star City but about saving the country
• The show did a better job with Damien than it did with Ra's so that's an improvement

Edited May 8, 2016 by wonderwall

[nksarmi]

I definitely think no relationship drama would be ideal. A couple can disagree or even have a huge fight and I won't consider it drama as long as they stay together as a couple. Fights, disagreements, etc... are natural between a couple and I imagine that would be elevated by a factor of 1,000 if you were trying to fight crime together. So tension or conflict I would not have issue with. I just have a problem with they can't be together, now they can, now they have to break up, not they say they love each other but still want get together, etc... That crap bores me so much because I think the vast majority of people (not all but most) either decide to be together or break up. Simple as that. I find the rollercoaster ride kills my interest in a couple and if that couple is the main couple - it tends to kill my interest in the show.

Beyond that - I think they should have several episodes with no flashbacks or flashbacks of other characters. I think Stephen probably needs a bit of a break because his heart is not in these awful flashbacks at all this season. It must be draining - give the boy a break.

[DrSpaceman10]

In my opinion, Season Four has had the least Oliver-related romantic relationship drama of all four seasons:

Season 1 had the season-long love triangle with Oliver, Tommy and Laurel. Oliver also had relationships with Helena and Mckenna

Season 2 had the Laurel, Sara, Oliver drama, Oliver/Shado/Slade, Oliver sleeping with Isabel, and Oliver/Felicity. 

Season 3 had the season-long love triangle with Oliver, Ray, and Felicity. 

The only real romantic relationship drama in Season 4 was the plot that shall not be named in 408 and 415 and the subsequent Oliver/Felicity break-up. 

[kismet]

I think the biggest problem with the relationship drama in s4 was that they made it part of the A plot, the crossover and one of the pivotal plots of a season. That is too much expectation and demands on a plotline that was 1. pretty badly written 2. pretty badly acted & 3. was completely inorganic to who O/F had become over 3+ yrs of being some type of partner. Lastly it was just poor executed all around.

I don't think I felt romantic drama as much in s1 or s2 because a lot of it existed in the background or only came into focus every so many episodes. S3 season just sucked, but I think that had to do more with casting. Looking back, if they had done a better job casting RP instead of BR - I do not think I would have been so frustrated with s3 romantic drama. So it still was not written great, but it was the casting that sunk the season with overall suck & angst on the romantic front.

So moving forward my hope is that they never again put romantic angst front and center as the main plot for O/F. Even if they all the sudden became the best romantic drama writers ever, it just clashes against who O/F have become as characters and partners that they are at odds with each other. They are all about working together and finding another way. It just is weird when for plot purposes they just seem to quit each other without even trying. In addition to it going against the characterization, I also think the actors suck at acting it out both in the big moments and the lingering aftereffects.

I think @wonderwall has some good areas of improvement suggested above. For me it all boils down to the writers. The writers really need to go on a self-discovery retreat to find out what their strengths and weaknesses are as a team and a show. They would benefit from perhaps switching up some of the writing partnerships. They would also benefit from having a continuity editor. I know it gets crazy as the season goes on, but it would perhaps benefit them to more realistically plan out their season. They overpack some episodes and then leave others almost completely fillers. They have pacing issues in the episodes, I think because they have pacing issues on a whole for the story arc & writing.

I also wish they had a neutral party that was not a writer look over the plan and the major plot points to give them an outside perspective. I feel like perhaps some of the problems that crop up are because the writers room is too closed an environment. Sometimes a project needs a fresh and outsider perspective that is not in the writers room either trying to write their own episode or run other elements of the show. And then they should listen better to critiques or ideas to improve when people do bring up issues with the storylines.

In s1&2, they were a realistic show with realistic events and consequences. In s3, they had NO realism and the few consequences did not stick - everything could be undone or explained because of "comics" or prophecy. I feel like even with the Magic in s4, they have reintroduced the consequences to the show, but still struggle with realism. Honestly, their struggles with realism was reflected in the SCI & BMD plots, which is part of the reason I think they struck a nerve with the audience (in addition to other reasons). Either you're a realistic show or you're not, it really can't be both ways. And you can be a realistic show and have Magical or comic book elements in it. A lot of other shows and movies have done it well.

I believe & truly hope that they will go back to more of their realism roots in s5. Looking back in the series, I think we'll see s4 as a transitional season that helped get Arrow back on track.

Edited May 8, 2016 by kismet