Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[NumberCruncher]

I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it ~ However, I think it was a smart way to end all things considered. And they are way to behind on making that movie...

 

I do think that if Arrow does it, it won't be as traumatic as Chuck because we know they will fix it in 2-3 episodes - where Chuck didn't have the opportunity. :(

I didn't love it either but I did like it. They dropped just enough hints to give the audience hope that things worked out right and basically left viewers to draw their own conclusions. Arrow's writers aren't nearly talented enough to pull that off.

[BkWurm1]

Remember though Chuck did that in the last three episodes ever I HATED it and I wasn't really happy with how they ended Chuck

What?  La, la, la, la, la.  Chuck had a fairytale happy ending, they kissed on the beach and all her memories came flooding back.  HEA.  The end.  THE END!!!! 

see the writers going full-tilt TV Amnesia (no faking it for a mission, no magic drugs) for their next trope-extravaganza. Someone on Arrow needs to have no idea who they are for at least an episode if not more. So that friends/family have to repeat back memories to trigger memories.

 

Honestly?  If they kept it to a single episode it could be kind of a fun or at least entertaining episode but I am so afraid of the lingering consequences of what that person might do while lost. 

[Primal Slayer]

This isn't a work obligation though. They aren't going to tell  her "well you aren't filmung so you have to go to this con on your day off"

 

This place has more conspiracy theories then the X-files lol.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[Chaser]

I don't think the Con is an indication one way or another. If she is in the grave, it's a paycheck, exposure, she can still pretend she has a job, she can hang out with friends,etc...  If she isn't in the grave, it's just a Con.

 

I'm much more amused that she tweeted about pizza instead of the show coming back. 

[Chaser]

I highly doubt there is anything about the Con in her contract or that she is being paid extra.

However, it wouldn't surprise me if she was asked to maintain those commitments if she is the one leaving.

Isn't DR going to this Con? I wonder if he is with them.

[kismet]

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if an actress's contract would have a general clause for advertising/marketing where the studio could require an actress to attend cons, events, interviews, or social media when warranted.  It might not be executed most of the time, but can be executed. It would depend on how the contract defines marketing obligation - it could even be any event deemed by the studio that promotes the show and that would include comic cons given the nature that this is an adapted comic book show.

 

Say in the case if a person was written out of a show or fired, they wouldn't necessarily want to advertise for that show anymore, but they may be obligated to continue to continue fulfilling marketing obligations defined by the studio/show for the remainder of the season.  I suspect these marketing obligations can be written in a vague way rather than specifying specific dates and requirements so that the studio can require you to go to say an interview/event if they wanted you to or for them to require you to tweet on social media to misdirect the audience when they find necessary.  I just wouldn't be surprised. 

 

I wouldn't think a contract would necessarily have a list of specific scheduled times and dates of required social obligations ahead of time - for the show's benefit, I would imagine they would want to draft the terms to leave marketing obligations as an open general clause, so that the studio/show can require the actress to do any marketing stuff when they feel it is warranted...just like they can tell them to have to go to the San Diego Comic Con or Paleyfest even if the actress doesn't want to go, they would have to go if the studio says so.  I would imagine that HVFF isn't any different than SDCC or Paleyfest - if they want her to go, they probably can require her to go if they choose to enforce that clause about marketing obligation.

I think its possible that there is a marketing clause in their contract but I think it would definitely only apply to the big media events like SDCC or Paleyfest. Probably would also apply to any mandatory media interviews. I do not think it would apply to the random cons the stars like to do on their own time like HVFF.

 

Personally, I think it is in KC's best interest to fulfill her con commitments now more than ever

if she is in the grave

because it will build up fan support and maybe allow her to network or look more appealing. Plus this one has a lot of her friends there so at least she can have fun. It's not a random con where she would be the only one there to talk about ARROW.

 

Honestly, after the shitty night I had at work ~ I would love for someone to pay me to talk about random things, take a few photos and have people fawning over me. Sign me up :)

[DonnaMoss]

I think a big event for KC could be good career wise, but smaller cons may not be worth much in the sense that there may not be a lot of people to network with. And also she may have the chance to do other things instead of going to these that might be better for her future career.

Actually with pilot season she may be going to auditions if she's not working.

Edited March 12, 2016 by DonnaMoss

[Chaser]

If she was let go for being difficult (in one way or another) then the last thing she should do is start canceling appearances. Potential employers could hear the rumors and look at that and see an actress who is unprofessional. At least that is how I would view the situation.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Colin is still doing cons and Tommy was killed three years ago. It's easy money for celebrities and they keep people talking about them and that is never a bad thing. I don't see how KC going or not going to cons can tell us anything.

Also when actors are being written off they can't very well say it, but have to play along, like Colton did at Paley last year for example. So I imagine KC will as well this weekend if she will be put in the spot.

[DonnaMoss]

Men and woman doing cons is different. I'm surprised any women on these shows do cons.

[looptab]

Men and woman doing cons is different. I'm surprised any women on these shows do cons.

How is it different?

[looptab]

What was so controversial about my post that it got deleted?

[AyChihuahua]

I know, we'll see, i hope KC is always regular season 5 ARROW, I saw on twitter that some fans were glad KC is not in season 5

I'm thrilled at the prospect of never seeing her on Arrow again, EVER. f they get rid of Barrowman, too, I'll be ecstatic.

Edited March 12, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[jay741982]

What?  La, la, la, la, la.  Chuck had a fairytale happy ending, they kissed on the beach and all her memories came flooding back.  HEA.  The end.  THE END!!!! 

Honestly?  If they kept it to a single episode it could be kind of a fun or at least entertaining episode but I am so afraid of the lingering consequences of what that person might do while lost.

What I hated about the ending of Chuck was them leaving it up to interpretation. I wanted Chuck to kiss Sarah then they would show us all her memories flooding back then Sarah would be all "Chuck I remember everything!" Chuck would have been all "Oh thank god" then kissed her like she'd never been kissed before. GUH I loved Chuck and Sarah. The scene where Chuck was Begging her to remember their life together was heartbreaking :(

[wonderwall]

I just want to see more of this:

 

[Guest]

Yum. Don't we all.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Guest

[wonderwall]

Yum. Don't we all.

More shirtless Diggle scenes can potentially save any season from ruin. They could've saved S3 for me tbh

[Morrigan2575]

Yes, please

[Guest]

More shirtless Diggle scenes can potentially save any season from ruin. They could've saved S3 for me tbh

Diggle's arms could save a life. They should be celebrated.

[jay741982]

Yum. Don't we all.

I'm gonna dip back into the shallow pool briefly and say I want more shirtless Felicity

[BkWurm1]

I'm gonna dip back into the shallow pool briefly and say I want more shirtless Felicity

Well fair's fair. ;)

[wonderwall]

The only time we've seen felicity shirtless was in the flash and partially in 214. That being said I think ebr has a fantastic body and wouldn't mind seeing it on my screen. Although it would probably make me rather envious lol

[BkWurm1]

The only time we've seen felicity shirtless was in the flash and partially in 214. That being said I think ebr has a fantastic body and wouldn't mind seeing it on my screen. Although it would probably make me rather envious lol

May I remind you of a precious little gem called 3-20?  I could do with a repeat of that!!

[DeadZeus]

I just hope the magic mumbo jumbo is over. i hated how it made Oliver look powerless even though in my mind he is skilled enough to handle it. Please return to the "realistic" setting the show was based upon.

[jay741982]

Well fair's fair. ;)

Yes it is Lol SA and DR for some and EBR and WH for others! TA is really a good looking bunch

May I remind you of a precious little gem called 3-20?  I could do with a repeat of that!!

Never forget 320. An Episodes that thrilled Oliciters!

[Morrigan2575]

I just hope the magic mumbo jumbo is over. i hated how it made Oliver look powerless even though in my mind he is skilled enough to handle it. Please return to the "realistic" setting the show was based upon.

I've complained endlessly about the turn to a more comic universe vibe starting in S2. I loved the realistic/vigilante type story of S1. Personally, I think introducing powers and magic to Arrow have really limited Oliver's coolness factor.

I just miss the days of fights being fights and not handwaving, special effects, wire work. I also miss the parkour and the way stunts were filmed. Now I scream at the TV every time I see an obvious comicbook shot

Speedy/GA/Spartan standing on & jumping off the truck in 208

Speedy/GA shooting Arrows into the Moon and flying out of the shot

The suit up scene in 401 (I hate suit up scenes)

The Flash/GA side by side suit reveal on 208.

Etc, etc, etc

[kismet]

Suit up scenes work for me if they are used limitedly. And of the suit up scenes serve a narrative purpose like when he became Al-sha-him or perhaps the first time someone suits up. But in 401 it was just showing off an ill fitting & impractical costume. And he's been suiting up for 4 years now there was nothing really special about needing to show OQ dressing up in 401.

I'm not a huge fan of the magic & powers but I think it would have gone over a little better if it was also not the same season they promoted everyone needing to be a team and experience counting for nothing. So it chopped OQ off at multiple levels. It just wasn't smart storytelling to minimize your heroes abilities on all levels.

[tv echo]

I think we're pretty much stuck with a universe filled with superpowered beings and metahumans.  Given that, I'd like Oliver to acquire some magical powers (maybe via magical artifacts) to even the playing field when he has to go up against super/meta abilities. (I don't care if it isn't comic canon.)

[kismet]

Like a new magical tattoo? Maybe Constantine can give matching ones to FS & OQ for a wedding present :)

[bijoux]

I really don't want Oliver with super or meta abilities. I want the big bads in SC to go back to what they used to be. My hope and belief, actually, is that the writers will have been done with magic after this season. They've played with their toy, now they can move on. They can deal with things like that on crossovers or have the occasional criminal over from CC once or twice per season if they want to,

[EmilyBettFan]

We need a training scene with Diggle, Oliver and Felicity. Give me what I want! Lol

[arjumand]

I just miss the days of fights being fights and not handwaving, special effects, wire work. I also miss the parkour and the way stunts were filmed. Now I scream at the TV every time I see an obvious comicbook shot

 

Remember when SA used to boast that they didn't use wires on his show? Yeah, me neither.

 

And what with all the praise the special STUNT episodes, now with extra STUNTS are getting, I doubt we'll ever go back to those amazing days of Oliver taking down all of the Count's minions (+ the Count) while still hopped up on Vertigo.

 

 

 

Remember this scene? I remembered it the other day, when I was rewriting 301, and thinking to myself, how come Oliver took down ALL the Count's thugs in Season one, but couldn't handle one guy, who probably had twenty years on him? Ugh.

[dtissagirl]

I think there's also been a narrative shift in the fight scenes. The excuse for it is probably that now that they have 4 fighters, they wanna ~showcase the martial-artistness of it, but I'm more inclined to believe that the truth is budget/schedule issues. Fighting scenes are cheaper and easier to deal with than elaborate stunt action sequences, especially with 4 main characters involved.

 

In S1-S2, a whole lot of the actual close-combat fighting happened as a consequence of a larger action scene. There was some truck to stop, some place to infiltrate, some bomb to defuse, and on the course of that larger stunt piece, there were minions that needed to be fought in close combat.

 

These days, a whole lot of episodes revolve around the 4 masks going out specifically to beat Ghosts up. That's the entire narrative goal. Except if it happens early in an episode, they can't do well because there's still 34 minutes of story to fill.

[doesntworkonwood]

These days, a whole lot of episodes revolve around the 4 masks going out specifically to beat Ghosts up. That's the entire narrative goal. Except if it happens early in an episode, they can't do well because there's still 34 minutes of story to fill.

And then you end up having essentially the same scene two or three times in an episode... which is boring as hell.

[tv echo]

One of the media reviewers made a comment about how it looked like all of the TA fighting Ghosts sequences were shot on the same weekend and then just used in different episodes (because they were so repetitive).

[jay741982]

We need a training scene with Diggle, Oliver and Felicity. Give me what I want! Lol

Yes I want this too lol

[arjumand]

In S1-S2, a whole lot of the actual close-combat fighting happened as a consequence of a larger action scene. There was some truck to stop, some place to infiltrate, some bomb to defuse, and on the course of that larger stunt piece, there were minions that needed to be fought in close combat.

 

These days, a whole lot of episodes revolve around the 4 masks going out specifically to beat Ghosts up. That's the entire narrative goal. Except if it happens early in an episode, they can't do well because there's still 34 minutes of story to fill.

 

Besides the tasks you mentioned, there was also a character/skill point to be made - the youtube clip I posted above is Oliver proving to Diggle and himself that he doesn't need the bow - he's the weapon.

 

I mean, what's all these fights proving? That Oliver can be taken down by anyone nowadays?

 

To think I was actually happy when Thea put on a costume, and when Laurel became slightly less useless (having resigned myself to not getting the Black Canary I wanted, but the one the showrunners thought I deserved), and Diggle went out in the field - I didn't think it would be to the detriment of the actual hero of the fricking show.

[tarotx]

Along side the limits of the new Green Arrow suit and it being cheaper to use fight scenes I still think it's because they have to spend so much time on Katie Cassidy they don't have a lot of time to work with Steven and David. Just to have to use the Stunt double. I think Willa uses the stunt double with no qualms so they have had Speedy do some cool stuff this season because the practice time was put in since it was the stunt double doing the work. Now I do think Katie puts in the work but some roles are just not right for every actress or actresses wishes. 

 

Having the other shows shouldn't affect stunts. The Flash is a lot of special affects and LOT has special affects plus Caity&the stunt team. I don't think they have actors demanding to do their own stunts who can't. Just the basics to make the characters believable in the stunt scenes. Perhaps time at certain locations and specific stunt workers for the Villains. 

 

As for Oliver being a magic user? I get the appeal and the dislike. If there are meta humans team arrow need help and it's best for the hero of the show to be able to be the help inside team arrow. But Magic can be hokey and very Deus ex Machina. I'm hoping that as the city rebuilds next season the city becomes like Gotham (yes I said it) and is over ran with interesting criminals and the rise of the criminal organizations again. I can handle a bit of magic but nothing too contrived.   

Edited March 14, 2016 by tarotx

[dtissagirl]

And to think if only they had kept the fugly wig, they wouldn't have to spend so much time on KC during stunt rehearsing and shooting. That's so Laurel.

[AyChihuahua]

And to think if only they had kept the fugly wig, they wouldn't have to spend so much time on KC during stunt rehearsing and shooting. That's so Laurel.

Not blacking out the eyes didn't help.

 

So for those in the know, is there likely any validity to the idea that KC trying to do some of her own stuntwork and failing would take up a good amount of time that could be spent on cool Arrow stuff? It seems reasonable to me, but I have no idea how tv filming really works. Like would the directors, etc., let that happen?

 

(On the one hand, good on her for trying, on the other hand, dude give it up, you are simply not coordinated or athletic.)

[DeadZeus]

This might be one of my favorite action scenes so far. Because its ACTION. Not just a fist fight with crappy choreography.

Notice the way Oliver doesnt hesitate and immediatly jumps out of the window and shoots an arrow in mid-air to rapell down... Can you honestly see S4 GA do this? I can't even imagine him doing something like this ever again... Most because Oliver is now a tank and not agile like in this video.

 

Also, in the count video someone posted... Notice how Oliver uses DARTS.. which seems to be COMPLETELY forgotten in S4 even though hes pretty skilled with it (also not shown in flash backs yet how he got so skilled with darts)

 

 

Edited March 14, 2016 by DeadZeus

[dtissagirl]

So for those in the know, is there likely any validity to the idea that KC trying to do some of her own stuntwork and failing would take up a good amount of time that could be spent on cool Arrow stuff? It seems reasonable to me, but I have no idea how tv filming really works. Like would the directors, etc., let that happen?

They don't let the actors do A LOT of stuff because of insurance reasons. And I sincerely doubt KC does much, no matter what she says, because it's super easy to spot when it's her and when it's Atlin just by paying attention to the body type of the BC onscreen.

 

The problem is, KC needs to learn at least parts of the choreography, and they need to shoot it, because her face is so clearly visible. The editing folks need her coverage facing the camera. Everyone else's face is hidden, so they all need way less coverage.

[AyChihuahua]

They don't let the actors do A LOT of stuff because of insurance reasons. And I sincerely doubt KC does much, no matter what she says, because it's super easy to spot when it's her and when it's Atlin just by paying attention to the body type of the BC onscreen.

 

The problem is, KC needs to learn at least parts of the choreography, and they need to shoot it, because her face is so clearly visible. The editing folks need her coverage facing the camera. Everyone else's face is hidden, so they all need way less coverage.

But do you think she'd be allowed to try to do more than she's able to do, which takes time away from the others? We have her on record saying she couldn't do some twirl with her stick on-camera, and I think accidentally threw it or some such. She apparently can't do very simple things, that insurance companies wouldn't have any problems with...in terms of the show, not insurance, would she be allowed to try, and therefore take up time that could be used on other things?

[kismet]

As for Oliver being a magic user? I get the appeal and the dislike. If there are meta humans team arrow need help and it's best for the hero of the show to be able to be the help inside team arrow. But Magic can be hokey and very Deus ex Machina. I'm hoping that as the city rebuilds next city the city becomes like Gotham (yes I said it) and is over ran with interesting criminals and the rise of the criminal organizations again. I can handle a bit of magic but nothing too contrived.   

I can see both sides too.... I also don't think it helped to have DD come on so early in the season, if it was going to be the same GA/DD magic stand off almost every time. DD freezes an arrow then nearly chokes GA. It was ironic and self-aware during 415's exchange

 

"Damien Darhk: Or what? You'll fire an arrow at me? I think we've seen that movie before. I win, you lose, rinse, repeat.

Green Arrow: This time, it's different.

Damien Darhk: Oh, really?". 

I got a chuckle at the time, but in all seriousness it has been the same stand-off time and time again with DD. I love how NM is killing it in every scene he is in, but the DD/GA battles became boring half way through s4a, and beyond a cheap jokes, I'm not sure they recognize it as a problem.

 

It is hopefully that they can write and cast a witty villain like DD/NM, but I'm also fearful moving forward because besides NM cheekiness the majority of his action scenes with GA have been a snoozefest. So if they are gonna do something similar next year with a season long villain they need to figure out a new stunt plan & villain "superpower"; it was cool to see DD's powers for a few episodes, but now it's just boring ~ there has to be something more in his arsenal than just witty one-liners, stopping arrow in mid-air and magically almost strangling people. S3 had a season long villain snoozefest, s4 is almost becoming that bad, I'm fearful of what s5 will bring because of budgetary reasons with the season long villains. Not everyone is NM or JB and even JB's acting cannot save the idiocy of the writers trying to reinvent his role due to reasons.  

[dtissagirl]

But do you think she'd be allowed to try to do more than she's able to do, which takes time away from the others? We have her on record saying she couldn't do some twirl with her stick on-camera, and I think accidentally threw it or some such. She apparently can't do very simple things, that insurance companies wouldn't have any problems with...in terms of the show, not insurance, would she be allowed to try, and therefore take up time that could be used on other things?

 

I assume they'll let her try a couple of times, and if it doesn't work, they'll have Atlin do whatever it is. It's not like messing up dialog, when they do have to shoot as many takes as needed.

 

This doesn't apply to just stunts, btw. Back on SG-1, Amanda Tapping's character had to do a super tricky shot while playing pool, so the production made sure to have someone on set who could do it for sure. Amanda learned the trick herself and nailed it both off and on camera, but the point is, they were prepared just in case, because production needs to move on as quickly as possible.

[AyChihuahua]

I assume they'll let her try a couple of times, and if it doesn't work, they'll have Atlin do whatever it is. It's not like messing up dialog, when they do have to shoot as many takes as needed.

So probably she's not taking up enough time to explain why the stunts are worse.

[dtissagirl]

Except for having to shoot more coverage than Steve/David/Willa? No, I don't. That would mean the production manager is incompetent for letting one actor constantly delay/halt production for no reason, since it's so easily solved by having the actual stunt person do the stuff.

 

I think time is a factor in the stunts being worse because it's the same amount of prep time and production time, but twice the amount of characters needing stunt and fight choreography.

[Sakura12]

I remember CL saying during Season 2 they barely had any rehearsal time for the stunts. The showed her what to do right before they started filming and if she didn't think she could do it, she'd tell them to use the stunt double.

With LoT it appears CL's with the stunt team prepping stunts and rehearsing with them.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sakura12

[DeadZeus]

I disagree with the Oliver using magic thing, Oliver should be able to take down metahumans without magical helps.. because he should be a badass

[Morrigan2575]

Except for having to shoot more coverage than Steve/David/Willa? No, I don't. That would mean the production manager is incompetent for letting one actor constantly delay/halt production for no reason, since it's so easily solved by having the actual stunt person do the stuff.

I think time is a factor in the stunts being worse because it's the same amount of prep time and production time, but twice the amount of characters needing stunt and fight choreography.

Which is why I still question the logic of having all 4 characters go out in every scene instead of dividing them up or cycling characters in and out.