Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[kismet]

From spoilers disc thread:

I think it would drive me crazy is if they started just doing flash forwards all the time instead of flashbacks.  I don't know if this flash forward is a test of whether they should focus more on flash forwards rather than flashbacks.

That is a fear of mine as well. A few days ago I likened the FB to drawing heavily from LOST. I can see these writers now turning to Flash FWDs as their next "cool" storytelling device. And I just don't think it would work for this show. IMO it is not within these writers' wheelhouse to write creative and quality stories that rely on FFwds. Some writers & showrunners can do it well, unless they hire new people - this is not the group to do it. I think they should finish off the five years on the island by the s6 winter finale. To me that is reasonable and does not draw out the "island" portion of the story any longer than it needs to be. And then move forward with a show that perhaps has the occasional FB, FFwd, dream sequence or dramatic plot twist - but not as a mandatory weekly occurrence. The narrative devices should be "organic" to the story being told and not a compulsory component.

 

Part of me wonders if they keep on returning to "OQ as an idiot for plot purposes" is because they are trying to hard to tether him to the FB. For some reason, they are hesitant to just let him progress down a dark path in the FB. Perhaps in their minds, the only way they can link the FBoq w/ PDoq is through his "stupidity". For me in the beginning, FBoq informed who PDoq was - however that was closest those two characters should be. From that point on PDoq was moving towards being a HERO & FBoq was moving towards becoming the cold mission-oriented machine we met in the pilot. Their journeys maybe reflective of each other, but there is no distinctive need to overlap or parallel each other so long as by the end of the FBs we get PilotOQ and in present day we further achieve our next step on our Hero's journey.

 

However, somewhere along the lines the writers decided to switch their storytelling and now every season both OQs take the same exact mission. And while it worked in s1 & s2, that the journeys were similar because narratively we were at the start. By the end of s2, OQ was a "hero", so that should be the end of the FB & PD mirroring each other so heavily. In s3 & beyond, the FB should have taken a departure from needing to parallel the present. Rather it should directly tell us how OQ became who he has in the pilot, which was more anti-hero than hero. Its failing miserably in s3& s4 because it does not account for the fact that OQ in the present should have already learned his lessons from previous seasons & his "island time". The present day should be presenting new challenges, not rehashing old lessons. FBoq more often than not either failed or made a mistake that lead to another mistake. That is why it took him 5 years to come back. However, if PDoq is becoming the Hero he is destined to be he should not be making the same mistakes over and over again.

 

The writers can't be telling a hero's journey in both the present and the past because it's not accurate. OQ in the FB was not a hero or even on a hero's journey, he was trying to survive. He didn't officially start his hero's journey until the pilot. OQ in the present is already a hero, by the show's own declaration at the end of s3 - he shouldn't be going through the same journey again. He can be becoming a better Hero, which is what s4a felt like until they took their midseason swerve to make the story align with whatever crazy navigational narrative they are trying to tell between FB & PD. That is why I cringe at what they would do with FFwds, because in many ways it feels that they already write the story with an outcome in mind and then backfill the plot to get there at the compromise of the characters. Compulsory FFwds would just give them more opportunity to make a mess of the characterizations & quality of the story.

[ComicFan777]

From the comics, the island story with Taiana was an origin story for Oliver that explained where he got his sense of civic duty and desire to help the "downtrodden."  I figured that was the direction of the flashbacks before the season started, although I was a little confused because it seemed a bit too hopeful of a storyline for Oliver at this point in time.  Oliver in the past should be spiralling down, not be inspired.  Poppy doesn't seem very inspirational to me either, so I am completely confused as to what this season's flashbacks are trying to do. 

[bijoux]

Here's my hope for when Felicity finds out about the lie. She makes the Queens stand in the corner in the lair and think about what they have done.

[theacostov]

I'm not even sure Oliver emerges as the bad guy. Quite the contrary, the show put Thea on his side, so he has at least one person in his corner, as of now. He is the victim in all this, poor guy had no choice!

Yeah my main fear is that the writers genuinely don't think what oliver is doing is wrong. Hence he's not going to feel actually guilty for lying and do everything he can to make it up to Felicity. He basically thanked Thea for saying he was doing the right thing. It's really hard to apply apply logic to how this is going to get solved.

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah my main fear is that the writers genuinely don't think what oliver is doing is wrong. Hence he's not going to feel actually guilty for lying and do everything he can to make it up to Felicity. He basically thanked Thea for saying he was doing the right thing. It's really hard to apply apply logic to how this is going to get solved.

 

And that is where a big problem lies. If Thea hadn't encouraged him to keep lying, Oliver would have told Felicity. I hate the thanking more than anything, because it basically shows that he was looking for justification because he KNOWS it's the wrong thing. It actually makes it slightly worse because he's aware how wrong he is for not telling the truth to his fiancee. 

[theacostov]

This year some parts move really slow, while others are just plain stupid but I don't see what the big picture is supposed to be. Is Oliver supposed to learn that it is not ok to lie? 

 

I bought this over from the Spoilers thread since I don't think I'm going to talk about spoilers but I'm procrastinating from doing work and it got me thinking about what the season long story is supposed to be. They talked about the Family theme; blood family vs chosen family and it seems so far that blood wins out (Felicity's dad being the only exception). Any other show I would say they will ultimately show that chosen family is more/just as important but I'm not sure with this one. Malcolm's continued existence being the reason. 

 

The other question posed at the beginning of the season was whether Oliver could fight without the darkness taking over. The reason Oliver and Felicity are going to have this contrived break up is to really test this. When Oliver has Felicity as a sounding board he tends to make smarter decisions. I think Oliver is going to have a choice to make a really stupid decision again during their breakup and this time he's going to embrace the light/good way. OR the real reason they broke them up is so that Oliver can make another stupid decision for plot which if he was with Felicity she would not let him do. I hope it's the former. 

[bijoux]

The other question posed at the beginning of the season was whether Oliver could fight without the darkness taking over. The reason Oliver and Felicity are going to have this contrived break up is to really test this. When Oliver has Felicity as a sounding board he tends to make smarter decisions. I think Oliver is going to have a choice to make a really stupid decision again during their breakup and this time he's going to embrace the light/good way. OR the real reason they broke them up is so that Oliver can make another stupid decision for plot which if he was with Felicity she would not let him do. I hope it's the former. 

 

I hope for the former as well. Just for there to be some goal in sight.

 

I also hope he re-evaluates his perception of family. Way back when William came up someone wrote a fic about Felicity finding out and pointing out that Oliver put his family first. And obviously she wasn't it. I would love that to be addressed and dealt with on the show. I'm not holding out hope for this however.

[Long Days Night]

I'm thinking that after they rescue William, he and his mom are going into Witness Protection, where their new names are going to be Sandra and Connor Hawke.

[wonderwall]

I'm thinking that after they rescue William, he and his mom are going into Witness Protection, where their new names are going to be Sandra and Connor Hawke.

I think this would've worked but Connor Hawke is in LoT and is a person of color so I doubt it! But I do agree they'll be put into WITSEC (ARGUS version of it)

[Midnight Lullaby]

I hope for the former as well. Just for there to be some goal in sight.

 

I also hope he re-evaluates his perception of family. Way back when William came up someone wrote a fic about Felicity finding out and pointing out that Oliver put his family first. And obviously she wasn't it. I would love that to be addressed and dealt with on the show. I'm not holding out hope for this however.

I really hope this is going to happen because what kind of message is it that the protagonist values a psycho mass murderer only because he is related to his sister but he doesn't seem to value the two people who have been his family in everything but name and always stood beside him? Families in real life aren't always blood family but it doesn't mean they count any less. Love is what makes a family.

[Chaser]

I think this would've worked but Connor Hawke is in LoT and is a person of color so I doubt it! But I do agree they'll be put into WITSEC (ARGUS version of it)

I had a rather scary thought about the future of BM/Kid but I feel I should wait until the Spoiler Thread is reopened to share. I did not like the thought at all.

[calliope1975]

I hope they actually show Felicity's surgery, and I also hope Digg and Lyla are there supporting her. Maybe she can move in with them. She needs more people than just Curtis on her side. 

 

I fear that, because her walking will be the result of technology and not natural healing, that the paralysis will eventually pop up again when the tech malfunctions. Something that could be really interesting on a well written show, but that's not what we're working with here.

[bijoux]

During next week's likely teary family reunion I hope William tells all and sundry that he left with Darhk willingly. Why? He said he was your friend, Mom.

[Midnight Lullaby]

During next week's likely teary family reunion I hope William tells all and sundry that he left with Darhk willingly. Why? He said he was your friend, Mom.

"Mom, what happened to your friend? He promised we could go to the park tomorrow." LOL

[bijoux]

Psst. Don't tell Oliver, but Damien's better at Battleship. And he taught me magic! Want to see me tighten that man's tie right around his neck?

[kismet]

I don't even know why I am hoping for this since I HATE when they do medical things on the show.... but part of me hopes with FS's need for surgery that they make a new connection with a doctor willing to do experimental stuff. Now that Lyla runs ARGUS, perhaps there is someone they can trust there.

 

If they are not going to keep to realistic medical standards, at least if they start doing everything off the books I will not have such a guttural reaction to it. The medical standards can be whatever crazy thing fits the plot. I know they might need to find a new hospital set... but surely that new lair must have a surgical suite in it. :)

Edited February 20, 2016 by kismet

[arjumand]

Yeah my main fear is that the writers genuinely don't think what oliver is doing is wrong. Hence he's not going to feel actually guilty for lying and do everything he can to make it up to Felicity. He basically thanked Thea for saying he was doing the right thing. It's really hard to apply apply logic to how this is going to get solved.

 

I bolded your words because that's my main fear too. And the way Thea did not seem to give a damn about Felicity (who is now paralysed only because of her association with Oliver) being lied to for months (and am I just imagining things, or was there a slight contempt on Thea's part for Felicity in this episode?) seemed to indicate that when all this comes out, and Felicity gets rightfully angry, she's going to be made to look unreasonable. That's another fear of mine.

 

Now, my wish is the following: Felicity will refuse to discuss anything until William has been rescued etc, and everything is settled. Then, while Oliver is off taking BM and the brat somewhere they'll be safe (and away from our screens), Felicity is packing a bag. Oliver comes back to an empty loft, with the ring on the coffee table.

 

Look, I love Olicity. It's the only thing I write, nowadays. But Oliver needs to realise that what he did was wrong. Someone has to drum it through his thick skull that he can't treat people like this anymore.

[DeadZeus]

I read a speculation that the reason Oliver lost a hand in LoT is because Malcolm takes it in revenge. If this happen's on Arrow i'll be pretty pissed.

Also, the Star city they see on LoT is from the ORIGINAL timeline when they don't interfere. Meaning Oliver is doomed to fail his crusade unless LoT ppl stop savage in the background. I think this is pretty lame.

[tangerine95]

After that speech from Thea I have the fear they make Felicity the villain in this too in the sense that everyone else validates what Oliver did.I don't think they will do that though and right now I think they did the whole thing with Thea supporting him as a way to make Oliver more sympatetic to the audience in this because he got a lot of hate after the crossover.

I just don't get what would be the point of the lie if its not treated as a lesson Oliver needs to learn.If he's right then the show is telling us its okay for him to lie to Felicity as long as he feels he has a good reason and I don't think they want that to be the endgame of this storyline.Why make him suffer consequences if his choice was totally the right one.They had Thea validate his lie but everything else is pointing to it being wrong and it really seems like they're setting it up for a huge fallout so I don't see them treating Felicity as the one in the wrong.

[arjumand]

I read a speculation that the reason Oliver lost a hand in LoT is because Malcolm takes it in revenge. If this happen's on Arrow i'll be pretty pissed.

Also, the Star city they see on LoT is from the ORIGINAL timeline when they don't interfere. Meaning Oliver is doomed to fail his crusade unless LoT ppl stop savage in the background. I think this is pretty lame.

 

Super lame. I always hate crossover fanfic when a character from one show saves a character from another - shared universe or not, I don't want this to happen.

 

I have a kind of love-hate relationship with LoT at the moment - I love Snart and Sara, and the Professor. But when Ray starts acting stupid, and Kid Firestorm is annoying, and HawkLady is bleh, I roll my eyes. And whenever they start with their anvil-laden dialogue about being LEGENDS, all I can think of is: "LEGEND tells of a LEGENDary warrior, whose kung-fu skills were the stuff of LEGEND!" Come on, guys. Enough with the LEGENDS already.

 

After that speech from Thea I have the fear they make Felicity the villain in this too in the sense that everyone else validates what Oliver did.I don't think they will do that though and right now I think they did the whole thing with Thea supporting him as a way to make Oliver more sympatetic to the audience in this because he got a lot of hate after the crossover.

I just don't get what would be the point of the lie if its not treated as a lesson Oliver needs to learn.If he's right then the show is telling us its okay for him to lie to Felicity as long as he feels he has a good reason and I don't think they want that to be the endgame of this storyline.Why make him suffer consequences if his choice was totally the right one.They had Thea validate his lie but everything else is pointing to it being wrong and it really seems like they're setting it up for a huge fallout so I don't see them treating Felicity as the one in the wrong.

 

Well, I hope you're right - but if they set up Thea's speech to make the audience more sympathetic towards Oliver, then they miscalculated big time. If anything it made me even angrier. He's in his thirties, for fuck's sake - what's he doing listening to his kid sister, who'd obviously a massive hypocrite, after all the fuss she made about being LIED TO in previous seasons. Either that, or he forgot it already. Maybe he should have that looked into - long-term memory loss is not a joking matter.

Edited February 21, 2016 by arjumand

[tv echo]

At this point, I hope that Felicity's surgeon is a hot young doctor played by... Colin Donnell, in a special crossover with Chicago Med.

[dtissagirl]

The one thing that's bugging me is that the narrative hasn't made the connection between Malcolm learning Oliver has a kid with the fact that Oliver's lying [or has been visiting the spawn]. Malcolm saying he knows because he's Ra's is a cop out. Is he saying he has Oliver under surveillance 24/7? Is he saying he knew about William all along? This would be kind of an important beat to a narrative in which Oliver's lie is wrongity wrong wrong.

 

But after some time to think it over, I'm good with Thea taking Oliver's side in this. Sure, I now think her IQ is in the low double digits, but mostly it has very little to do with Thea herself. I'm relieved it wasn't Diggle or Donna that Guggenheim used as is mouthpiece. Thea's expendable to me in this situation, tbh.

[apinknightmare]

The one thing that's bugging me is that the narrative hasn't made the connection between Malcolm learning Oliver has a kid with the fact that Oliver's lying [or has been visiting the spawn]. Malcolm saying he knows because he's Ra's is a cop out. Is he saying he has Oliver under surveillance 24/7? Is he saying he knew about William all along? This would be kind of an important beat to a narrative in which Oliver's lie is wrongity wrong wrong.

 

I'm not sure why they had Malcolm tell Oliver that he knew about William at all. It would've made him going to Darhk at the end there an actual surprise, and would've made Oliver look at least a little bit less of an idiot for flat-out ignoring it.

[Morrigan2575]

On this show DD could gleefully announce that Malcolm told him all about William and Oliver would be like...Did you torture the information out of Malcolm? I must save him and William now!

Edited February 21, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[looptab]

Honestly, if I wasn't aware of MG's confirmation that Oliver's been in CC after the crossover, I'd believe that Malcolm found out during the crossover. He was there, it's possible he had Oliver followed. And I have no problem believing that Oliver wouldn't have noticed, because if once he could sense someone coming up the stairs while he was on a rooftop, now he doesn't even notice when a bunch of League men are hiding in the shadows in his own lair. (For reference, the second time Malcolm and his minions appear - from a spot the whole cast was staring at the whole time. If there ever was a bad shot, it was that one).

Edited February 21, 2016 by looptab

[dtissagirl]

It's really hilarity overload how unwritten this still is. We don't know how Malcolm knows. If he learned it from Oliver's movements, that's relevant info wrt to him lying. And Oliver didn't tell Thea that Malcolm knows, which, considering her reasoning was insane [Guggen]troll logic, might not have affected anything, but it does highlights how they're NOT writing Oliver as someone who's looking at this from all angles.

 

Then there's the funniest bit imo -- the fact that they had to write Alex out of the episode [bwahahaha!] so that they could explain away why Thea was the one poking around the un-cashed check and figuring out who BM was.

 

This is seriously the weirdest writing I've ever seen in my life. And I grew up on Brazilian soap operas.

[tv echo]

There was also Darhk's holding Laurel over Quentin to keep him in line, which meant Darhk had to be tracking Laurel somehow but never discovered that she's the BC.

[tangerine95]

Its so weird,I have no idea what they're doing.Arrow has had some contrived storytelling before but not on this level imo.They are literally ignoring all the relevent issues like how does Felicity not knowing protect the kid especially if Thea knows and it makes no difference and even Malcolm knows,how long does Oliver plan to lie since no end date was even hinted at,will he ever be allowed to tell William he's his father,does Oliver lying mean he puts what baby mama wants over being honest to Felicity ,how is BM allowing him to visit the kid after what happened to Felicity was so public and clearly linked to her being with Oliver,how does Oliver let himself risk it by visiting the kid after what happened to Felicity etc.They're probably avoiding this on purpose because address any of that and what they need from the storyline fails.

[tv echo]

I think the original Arrow EPs (Greg Berlanti, Andrew Kreisberg and Marc Guggenheim) are all spread too thin over multiple projects, and it's dividing their attention.  Also, as the first show, Arrow is probably getting the least amount of attention from Berlanti.  And Guggenheim is probably spending more time on LoT, as well as his various other projects (like his Marvel's AoS comics).

[bijoux]

I am honestly not the tiniest bit worried that Felicity is going to be presented as the bad guy for getting upset, angry and/or hurt. If I was afraid of anything, it would be that she as a character will wave everything away. Oh, I understand you both perfectly. You've had it so hard these few months. Hey, it makes no sense to me when I take Felicity as she's been presented over the past three and a half years, but it would simply make her another victim to this plot. She wouldn't be the first.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I'm not really worried about Felicity being made the bad guy by the narrative either.

 

BUT I am 100% sure fandom is gonna eat itself up and implode spectacularly, and a whole bunch of people are gonna double down on Team Oliver! vs. Team Felicity!, because that's what happens when big 'ships break up. THAT is the part that's gonna suck balls when it inevitably happens on this board.

Edited February 21, 2016 by dtissagirl

[bijoux]

Eh, I don't really care about that part all that much.

[calliope1975]

They're probably avoiding this on purpose because address any of that and what they need from the storyline fails.

 

You are so very right. If they address any of the many, many gigantic plot holes in the story, it all fall apart. So they just keep adding and adding to this extremely flimsy house of cards. And when anyone points out - hey...that doesn't make sense - they ignore the criticism or deflect to shipper bias. It's frustrating and annoying, but as has been said by others, if they aren't going to take their own show seriously or even approach it logically, then neither am I. This is on one of the worst plot point only stories I've seen, and I used to watch General Hospital. I'm just counting down the episodes until it's over and hoping they haven't wrecked Oliver too badly in the meantime that I can't root for him anymore. 

 

They do seem to be setting up Felicity to be unsympathetic, but I literally don't see how that's possible, and I hope real critics (since fans aren't to be believed or valued) eviscerate them if that is, indeed, what they try to sell. 

[Morrigan2575]

Eh, I don't really care about that part all that much.

I'm woth you...until it invades my safe haven...then i get annoyed :-)

[tangerine95]

Yeah I don't care about what happens in the fandom,people were doing that last season too.I just need the show to be clear that Oliver was wrong and it was a lie and he's the one that needs to regain her trust.I'm expecting that to happen and its the only thing that makes sense but idk that speech from Thea was weird and it would suck if they made everyone but Felicity feel that way.Someone else needs to tell Oliver he was being dumb and not doing the right thing.

[tangerine95]

 

They do seem to be setting up Felicity to be unsympathetic, but I literally don't see how that's possible, and I hope real critics (since fans aren't to be believed or valued) eviscerate them if that is, indeed, what they try to sell.

I don't think they're setting her up to be unsympathetic on purpose.I expect it will be up to her to forgive Oliver and they haven't really been hinting with anything that the problem will be just something she needs to get over.I mean they did that whole Lance/Donna lying storyline imo as a parallel to Olicity and I don't get the impression the point was that Donna needs to get over it and Lance is right to lie.They resolved their issue when Lance was honest and then she was understanding and gave him another chance.So I expect something like that for Oliver and Felicity only longer and more dramatic.Also all the anvils about how lucky Oliver and Felicity are to not have to lie to each other and how thats what makes them such a great couple seems like the lie is what can ruin that and i see no way to make that anything but Oliver's fault no matter what his reasons.

I do worry about them being so focused on not making Oliver look too terrible and easier to forgive in this and giving him excuses that they forget to give Felicity a proper POV.MG said she will get one and I guess we'll see.I think they just expect people to side with Felicity no matter what while they feel the need to try harder to make Oliver sympathetic in this.Imo thats what they tried to do with Thea supporting him only totally went about it the wrong way.

[calliope1975]

I think they just expect people to side with Felicity no matter what while they feel the need to try harder to make Oliver sympathetic in this.Imo thats what they tried to do with Thea supporting him only totally went about it the wrong way.

 

That makes sense. I can see that Felicity would be the default sympathetic character so they had to do damage control with Oliver. That Thea speech really rubbed me the wrong way. I have too many feelings wrapped up in this show!

[dtissagirl]

That's what happens when you build an entire storyline upon assuming your character is super extremely between a rock and a hard place. But anyone half-watching with more than 2 brain cells can see that there's neither rock nor hard place. And then! When it turns out your audience isn't actually as dumb as you wanted them to be, you have to ~double down~ on making the invisible rock and the non-existent hard place into something. Hence Thea. Thea is the personification of the assumption that audiences are stupid, and need to be talked to from a "the writers know better" place.

 

LOL.

[apinknightmare]

Since they went from Oliver keeping the secret because Samantha asked him to, to Thea encouraging him to keep it from Felicity and everyone to "protect" William, I would've thought that the first objection Felicity would've raised apart from what this does to their personal relationship would've been why on earth Oliver thought that telling her or the team about the kid would somehow lead to him being unsafe?

 

But WM (I think) gave that interview a while back about how they'd explore the idea that honesty isn't always the best policy and that there was a grey area somewhere in there, so I don't think they're pushing Oliver's "predicament" to somehow make him more sympathetic, it seems like they're making the argument that he might actually be right? But then, if he's right, then why does this blow up in his face? For the breakup, I know, but what lesson is Oliver learning here? Is there one? IDK.

 

All I do know is that this is going to be a bigger clusterfuck than I initially thought it would be, haha. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Midnight Lullaby]

That makes sense. I can see that Felicity would be the default sympathetic character so they had to do damage control with Oliver. That Thea speech really rubbed me the wrong way. I have too many feelings wrapped up in this show!

It's because they never learn. When the audience tells them they don't like/don't buy/don't care about something they keep insisting on it thinking if they try hard enough people are going to change their minds. And this might work with some, but the majority of the audience it's made by people who can keep an opinion and this "game" will only have the result of annoying them further.

Oliver would have been more sympathetic if he looked more torn, afraid and said something about knowing he needs to tell Felicity before marrying her and if Thea, instead of saying what she did, told him she believed he had to tell Felicity the truth if he wanted to marry her because a real marriage isn't based on lies.

It wouldn't have created issues in the narrative, but it would have made both Thea and Oliver look better.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[theacostov]

I'm really surprised they didn't have an Oliver almost tells Felicity but gets interrupted moment.

In a messed up way I'm glad the story has a million holes. It's the only thing preventing me from hating Oliver (and even Thea).

[tarotx]

Thea is in her early 20's. She's not going to tell Oliver what a real marriage means. She wouldn't even know because Robert and Moira lied their ass off and she was a distant teen and somewhat druggie during the time Walter was with Moira. Thea should have came out against lying but lets not go as far as saying a real marriage. Though her understanding lying isn't coming out of left field. She already lied about and kept her training with Malcolm secret. She kept Laurel's secret about Sara being alive earlier in the season. But the show did it wrong here. Anything to see and be with your child should have been her go to here if they wanted her to agree with Oliver. Anything to keep William safe doesn't even make sense for the story or the characters. It should have been I feel why you would keep this secret but lets find another way. I want to be an aunt! William needs to know his family and where he came from. It even fits in with their blood is best thing going on.

 

LOL Oliver even called in Donna for Felicity when she was having issues. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'm in my early twenties and the concept seems awfully clear to me, LOL

Also Thea threw a fit when she believed her mom was cheating on Walter and showed how aware she was that their parents' marriage was awful and didn't like that one bit.

Also she kept a few secrets but she also felt so bad for her own actions first she wanted Nyssa to kill her, than Sara when she was resurrected, so despite being young I think the show established she understands taking responsibility for your actions is right no matter the circumstances but here she suggested Oliver should have a marriage like their parents' and shouldn't even feel guilty about it.

[ComicFan777]

Didn't Thea break up with Roy before because he wasn't honest with her?  She expected honesty from her significant other - I would think she would see that important for Felicity to be in the know, too, even for the sake of just being in the loop.

[Guest]

Sadly, I don't think there's any explaining Thea's actions. She's a complete stand-in for MG here. And it's really bad that the show has inadvertently framed it as blood relatives come before anyone else, even those who have stood by you through thick and thin. They've basically taken a major crap on Felicity (and Diggle to an extent because he's been Oliver's family as much as Felicity has) with this whole mess. I'm so sad and mad about it. I'm smad.

[kes0704]

I'm not convinced that Felicity will get to voice a POV in this whole drama. My reason for thinking this is because the writer's never seemed to realise that Felicity never got to express her opinions about anything or feelings about Oliver until late in season 3.

For that matter, they didn't even realise her whole story was more about propping up Ray, and anyone else who happened to walk through a scene she was in, than it was about her.

I'm really hoping that both Oliver and Felicity come out of this intact as characters and neither one gets dumped with the whole mess. I'm sort of hoping that it makes the ratings tumble a bit as well and I feel awful saying that because I really like this show and want it to do well.

Edited February 21, 2016 by kes0704

[tarotx]

Thea's never been married and hasn't know a good relationship. She just isn't in the place in her life. You all may be but it wouldn't be believable to me for Thea to be the one that had/has that conversation with Oliver. Thea's freak out about Lying in the first 2 seasons have been reconned in part the last 2 seasons. Lying is apart of her life now. And all her anti lies were about people lying to "her" or her anger at her Mom for secrets and lies to "her". Even the anger about Moira's relationship with Walter was about "Thea".

 

I think you all are just upset that Thea's not going all out to defend Felicity's rights. Felicity is the one being lied too and secrets kept from her. She is clearly in the right to be angry.  If someone was to be in the role to talk to Oliver about honesty in marriage it would be Diggle's place since he's has a loving and honest marriage. 

 

Thea's words were out of place because MG did put his words into her mouth but a better writer/showrunner could write that scene with Thea understanding Oliver's lie. They wanted someone to understand Oliver. They just went about it the wrong way. No one was worried about the Boys's safety. Oliver wouldn't visit him at all if that was the case. He didn't think of another way when Baby Mama said no to telling Felicity. Instead he went along with the Secrets and lies way. It was the easiest way for Oliver. It kept both BM and Felicity from causing Drama in his life. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

Nope. You got it all wrong. I didn't want or care for Thea to go all out to defend Felicity. The show hasn't even established a relationship between the two making me indifferent about it.

I simply think that scene was a disservice to Thea and Oliver that IMO proved in the past to be better than this and were sacrificed for the plot.

[dtissagirl]

They wanted someone to understand Oliver.

 

This was exactly what they were doing, ITA.

 

However -- the unintended side effect was that instead of understanding Oliver, I now DO NOT UNDERSTAND Thea. And I don't even care that much about Thea. In that scene, she stopped being a character and became a bzzzuhhh of weird words that make no sense whatsoever.

[Midnight Lullaby]

As I said already Thea went crazy when she believed her mom was cheating on Walter and when she found out her dad cheated on her mom. She was appalled by her parents' marriage and that indicates she understands their marriage was unhealthy and logic would say she wouldn't want that for herself or her brother.

She has always had very strong reaction about lies and loyalty in relationships and she even left at the end of S2 after she found out Roy lied to her, so this sudden idea that lies are okay in relationships seems very OOC to me.