Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[dtissagirl]

I really hope Malcolm Merlyn is the big bad this year. Barrowman's great, but Malcolm is totally crazy pants. JB can talk about how Merlyn loves his daughter, but I'm not seeing it at all. I'd much rather Ra's be using Oliver to take down Merlyn. He can be a frenemy for now and then go all out villain in a later season.

 

ITA.

 

I know the EPs have called Ra's the big bad of the season a couple of times in interviews, but at least in these first 9 episodes, I think the final Big Bad to be defeated in the Big Finale Battle can be Ra's, or Malcolm, or ARGUS/Amanda Waller -- or a combination of them. They've been setting up all three people/entities as equally shady, imo.

 

And I find Ra's the least interesting of the three, because up to this point, he kind of has no connection to anyone in the main cast, other than having killed Oliver, but even that wasn't personal. Malcolm and Waller have complicated relationships with several different people, which makes the stakes higher in taking them down.

[statsgirl]

Everyone  has been running around for two seasons saying Ra's = scary but far from being the Biggist Big Bad, Ra's has pretty much left me cold.

 

The EPs took the concept of a yearly Big Bad from Buffy the Vampire Slayer but one of the reasons it worked for Joss Whedon is because he was generally willing to kill off each year's Big Bad so that the satisfying conclusion of the season sticks..  Arrow doesn't -- Malcolm (s1 BB) is still around on the show, Slade (s2BB) is still around, and I really doubt they are going to kill off Ra's (s3BB?) at the end of this season

 

I would love it if Ra's did get killed and Nyssa took over the LoA because that would be an awesome twist, but given Ra's role in the comic books, I really doubt that's going to happen.  So once again, they set up a big confrontation for the season finale, and then over the next season or two it fizzles because they don't have the guts to kill off the Big Bad yet again.  They only kill off the awesome female characters.

[TanyaKay]

I think this year should be Malcolm's last year on Arrow. John Barrowman must be a lovely man to work with but the character of Malcolm is just too unappealing. I mean if someone was handing out trophies for being the worst father ever, he would win first three spots.

He must go this season because I, for one, cannot stand him any more.

[BkWurm1]

I think this year should be Malcolm's last year on Arrow. John Barrowman must be a lovely man to work with but the character of Malcolm is just too unappealing. I mean if someone was handing out trophies for being the worst father ever, he would win first three spots.

He must go this season because I, for one, cannot stand him any more.

I'm of a different mind.  I want him to go full on Magnificent Bastard.  I want him on the side pulling strings and manipulating everyone way more than he has been.  My complaint this year is we have barely used him at all.  I don't want him a big bad, just a constant thorn.   I want to LOVE to hate him. 

[TanyaKay]

I'm of a different mind.  I want him to go full on Magnificent Bastard.  I want him on the side pulling strings and manipulating everyone way more than he has been.  My complaint this year is we have barely used him at all.  I don't want him a big bad, just a constant thorn.   I want to LOVE to hate him. 

 

I felt the same way about him before he used Thea. I mean he was horrible to Tommy and I bought that but he professed love to Thea and what not and then he pulled that stunt. All the affection I had for him vaporized in seconds. I think I really dislike him now and want him dead for good - it will be even better if Zombie Tommy comes back to life and kill him because that would be most apt. In my opinion of course.

A less crazy and non mirakuru influenced Slade is always welcome as a constant thorn though.

[BkWurm1]

Something that popped into my mind. I hope that in the next handful of episodes as Team Arrow gets Oliver's death sorted out, I hope we see Felicity get mad and channel that into something(not boxing lessons)

I'd expect there to be some kind of emotional breakdown when the results of Oliver's fight get back to her, but I really hope that in her interaction with Ray Palmer that we don't see tears (or at least she fights past them). It would be a great contrast to how emotional she's been around him the first half of the season.

It's not that I'd expect her to be less emotional about Oliver's death than Sara's, of course not, but some feelings are beyond tears and in my ideal scenario, the kind of numb anger she would be wearing like a shield would ensure that any thing with Palmer would be strictly for the good of the city.

[wonderwall]

I'm really hoping next season we will see:

 

• Oliver starting a political career
• Felicity taking over QC after working under Ray and getting a grasp of how to run the place OR her building her own empire
• Diggle being a high status leader in ARGUS. Maybe in charge of the Suicide Squad?
• Laurel being far far away. Maybe with the League? Or she could go to Seattle with Helena and Ted to help save that city? IDK

Edited December 25, 2014 by wonderwall

[Genki]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that they need to go forward with the Lazarus Pits for Arrow to seem realistic to me.

 

I know it goes against the no power "rule" (except when the Flash is around). But I think it can work in the same vein a Mirakuru and Oliver that claimed to see unbelievable things during his island years, so they have always held the door open for superpowers on Arrow. And this is such a small one. Maybe Mirakuru was made using minerals form the Pits, who knows.

 

Basically I can't imagine that Oliver can go on being a vigilante healing naturally especially from the MSF. Even if he was only partly dead after being kicked off a cliff and even if the sword missed all sorts of vital organs it still went through his lung, pair that with his busted knee from Season 3 and a shoulder that is prone to dislocating (2.5 comics, correct me if I'm wrong, but after it happens once isn't it more likely to happened again?) and I'm sure Oliver would soon need to be retired due to injuries. 

 

Seriously he casually got hit by a car in 3.05, I can only suspend so much disbelief when it comes to surviving injuries realistically. Also giving up being the Arrow because of a bum knee makes Oliver's struggle to be Oliver Queen and not just the Arrow meaningless. Therefore I'm gunning for a lazarus pit revival (as long as it isn't a revolving pit). Bring him back messed up, or not, give him a little edge with the healing, speed and strength it all good for me. The only thing I wouldn't like is if the scars and tattoos were healed completely. Reduced yes, but not fully healed since I think that would take away from the Hellish 5 years. 

[BkWurm1]

The only thing I wouldn't like is if the scars and tattoos were healed completely. Reduced yes, but not fully healed since I think that would take away from the Hellish 5 years.

 

Keep the tattoos and only a couple of the best scars.  If they go,  want it made easy for the makeup department to have him shirtless ready in no time.  For that I'll trade realism for suspended disbelief. 

[Genki]

Keep the tattoos and only a couple of the best scars.  If they go,  want it made easy for the makeup department to have him shirtless ready in no time.  For that I'll trade realism for suspended disbelief. 

 

Yeah I was torn over the trade-off between Scars vs. more shirtlessness, and I agree eliminate minor scars and keep major + Tatts, but I think both DR & SA have stated that it is hard to be constantly in shape for shirtless scenes (my answer: I'd be happy with a few more gun shows), so I'm not sure if it is only the make-up chair time.

[Chiny11]

Don't know if this has been discussed here. If so, please pardon the repetition.

On another forum I browse, someone mentioned that Ray Palmer made a statement to Felicity about "Lazarus" in episode 3.03.

So I went and "browsed" through episode 3.03 again and I found the scene.

Ray Palmer wanted to know if Felicity had accessed the data from an Applied Sciences file server that was affected by the explosion in Season 2.

Ray Palmer's exact words were, "Any luck raising our digital Lazarus from the dead".

Of course this may be nothing... Or it maybe" something".

[BkWurm1]

Well, it could just be a metaphor since they were trying to bring back to life all the info the experts said was dead and gone.  As a shout out, it seems too soon.

[Chiny11]

I wonder what the state of mind of flashback-OQ would be at the end of his Hong Kong sojourn. Assuming Hong Kong is just for season 3.

I'm guessing the end of Season 3 will see him arriving in Russia (in preparation for season 4 Russia/Bratva flashbacks)

[Genki]

Season 4 needs to be Bratva and Russia, I think everyone is waiting for that.

[calliope1975]

I'm actually looking forward to Russia/Bratva and hopefully, more Anatoly. I think there's a lot of interesting character development that could happen there. Although something big must happen for Oliver to abandon the connections he makes and decide to return to the island and grow that awesome beard. 

 

Does anyone think TPTB will ever cut down on the flashbacks? I can't imagine watching Oliver forage around alone on an island in S5 for 23 episodes would be any kind of entertaining. Unless, it turns out, he wasn't alone which would be lame.

[Chiny11]

I'm actually looking forward to Russia/Bratva and hopefully, more Anatoly. I think there's a lot of interesting character development that could happen there. Although something big must happen for Oliver to abandon the connections he makes and decide to return to the island and grow that awesome beard.

Does anyone think TPTB will ever cut down on the flashbacks? I can't imagine watching Oliver forage around alone on an island in S5 for 23 episodes would be any kind of entertaining. Unless, it turns out, he wasn't alone which would be lame.

I don't think initially he will be alone on the island. I think some ARGUS-related stuff happened on that Island in his fifth year.

Do we know when ARGUS built that prison on the island?

I am also looking forward to Russia/Bratva.

[statsgirl]

I'm tempted to say that Oliver was alone on the island because if someone else had been there, they would have told him to get a shave and a haircut but I really think they will find a way for him not to be alone in season five, if only because it would make the flashbacks incredibly boring.  ARGUS already had a presence on the island when the Queen's Gambit went down, odds are they maintained something if only a skeleton presence later on.

 

Oliver told Diggle in season one "when I decided to come home", which argues that he had some autonomy by then and also some way of getting back, or at least connecting to the boat that found him on Lian Yu.

 

Just because the Chinese sailors didn't see anyone else on the island doesn't mean no one else was there.  Oliver would have wanted anyone who picked him up to think that he had been alone on a deserted island for the whole five years.

[BkWurm1]

I wonder if he goes to Russia and joins the Bratva at the behest of Waller.  Either she finishes his training/indoctrination and then sends him to Russia or he begs Anatoly for help and escapes Hong Kong . 

 

Either way could be very interesting, more so than I think Hong Kong has been since he's had so little autonomy in Hong Kong.  At least on the Island he was making choices, not just being moved around like a chest piece. 

 

I think my favorite HK flashback was when they went looking for Matseo (sp?).  About the only time we saw him not being led around. 

Edited January 3, 2015 by BkWurm1

[tv echo]

At this point, if Felicity is reduced back to a secondary character at the end of this season because the EPs want to focus on the costumed "superheroes", then I want DC Comics to sell the rights to her character to Marvel, and then have Marvel give Felicity her own show - hopefully, one as well done as Agent Carter.

Edited January 7, 2015 by tv echo

[Chiny11]

At this point, if Felicity is reduced back to a secondary character at the end of this season because the EPs want to focus on the costumed "superheroes", then I want DC Comics to sell the rights to her character to Marvel, and then have Marvel give Felicity her own show - hopefully, one as well done as Agent Carter.

You really think that'll happen? That Felicity could be relegated to a secondary status character?

Would the show runners dare to do that considering how popular the character is?

[tv echo]

You would think not.  But does what's going to happen with Laurel on Arrow (as spoiled) make sense?  Does the Sleepy Hollow show runner's continued focus on Katrina make sense?  Did How I Met Your Mother's series finale make sense?  I've given up trying to figure out why show TPTBs do what they do.

Edited January 7, 2015 by tv echo

[WaitandHope]

So I'm making this prediction here ... It's total speculation based on nothing. I think Felicity's father is Martin Stein - the other half of Firestorm. This way I've documented it - on the off chance they ever get around to revealing this and that I am right.... It ties her to both shows and to the Firestorm story, which is where the DC character originally came from and MG once said they knew who her father was, so maybe it was a character they already had the rights to. That's my deep-thought hiatus spec.

And it would make Spy-daddy Felicity's Dad, which would frankly be awesome.

Edited January 7, 2015 by WaitandHope

[Velocity23]

And once again her story would play out on Flash. It would be very frustrating for me.

[Starfish35]

I think Felicity's father is Martin Stein - the other half of Firestorm. This way I've documented it - on the off chance they ever get around to revealing this and that I am right.... It ties her to both shows and to the Firestorm story, which is where the DC character originally came from and MG once said they knew who her father was, so maybe it was a character they already had the rights to. That's my deep-thought hiatus spec.

And it would make Spy-daddy Felicity's Dad, which would frankly be awesome.

I like this theory!

[statsgirl]

And once again her story would play out on Flash. It would be very frustrating for me.

On the other hand, it would be written by AK and not MG, so it wouldn't be all bad.

[Velocity23]

I rather have Ben Sokolowski write Felicitys story. MG can focus on the #BuckleApocalypse

Edited January 7, 2015 by Velocity23

[Genki]

I would like felicity to have a tie to Firestorm, as a wink to cannon. Spy daddy as Mama Smoak's baby daddy would be a good way to do it.

[tv echo]

My fear is that the Season 4 poster will feature Oliver bracketed by Roy and Laurel (in costume), with Diggle and Felicity relegated to the background.

Edited January 8, 2015 by tv echo

[jay741982]

God that would suck and would be stupid. The Majority of fans watch for OG Team Arrow. Diggle and Felicity should always be next to Oliver or closest to him in the poster especially with their roles and what they mean to him

[Sunshine]

I hate to say it but I think the days of OG Team Arrow are a thing of the past. I think the show's focus has been shifting away from that to Oliver's comic book team/allies all season. I think Felicity is being moved to a information/support role for all the heroes (hence her being the original contact with Barry and Ray) including Roy and BC. She's already done a lot of upgrades for Team Flash. I also think she might be operating from outside the Foundry at either Palmer Technologies or Queen Inc. I am not sure what Diggle's role is going to be. I fear he will become recurring in Season 4 as either a member of ARGUS doing Suicide Squad missions or something similar but mainly as Oliver's friend.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Sunshine

[KirkB]

I hate to say it but I think the days of OG Team Arrow are a thing of the past. I think the show's focus has been shifting away from that to Oliver's comic book team/allies all season.

 

 

I think that's entirely likely. I have consistently said that I thought the whole reason Diggle and Lyla had a child was as an excuse for them to either limit or remove his presence. I don't know if Felicity will be sidelined but they may shift her more to helping Ray, especially if the intent is for the two of them to be together, and to make room in the lair for Arrow/Arsenal/Canary. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go beat my head against this wall.... 

Edited January 8, 2015 by KirkB

[jay741982]

The stupidest fucking thing they could do is force more Laurel Ray Roy down our throats. I know im gone if Diggle and Felicity are moved out of Arrowcave for unlikable or not very liked characters. Why the Fuck would you take two of the most popular characters and reduce their screen time. Do they want to lose viewers? I love the Action but I also love Felicity and Diggle and how important they are to Oliver. Plus I'm not going to lie Oliver and Felicity and is a fave tv couple of mine and their relationship is one of the main reasons I watch.

[apinknightmare]

I think that's entirely likely. I have consistently said that I thought the whole reason Diggle and Lyla had a child was as an excuse for them to either limit or remove his presence. I don't know if Felicity will be sidelined but they may shift her more to helping Ray, especially if the intent is for the two of them to be together, and to make room in the lair for Arrow/Arsenal/Canary. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go beat my head against this wall.... 

 

Eh, I don't think so. Him having Sara hasn't really effected his screen time or involvement thus far, and he was supposed to have left the team already. I think it really is just to show Oliver that he can have those things he thinks that he can't - family being one of them. And since SA said that

the number of heroes in Starling at the end of the season has an impact on where Oliver is in his life

, I'm betting that Ray is either on Team Arrow or working closely with them, so I don't think Felicity's going to be moved to mostly working with him - I think she'd probably help him from the foundry like she would everyone else. 

 

This is my eternal optimism speaking.

[jay741982]

Apinknightmare I hope you are right

[dtissagirl]

I think they're doing the exact same thing they did in S2: these middle-of-the-road episodes need to set up whatever Big Things are gonna happen in the last strech of episodes, and so the focus shifts from Oliver/Team Arrow to the other characters. Last season they focused on Sara, Slade, Lance Family Drama, Suicide Squad/Bird of Prey soft pilots, all so every player was in place for the last 3 episodes. Diggle and Felicity were mostly sidelined for a whole lot of stuff to happen, but they came together in the end.

 

Granted, this season is going through a more extreme version of sidelining, since they "killed" Oliver  -- which more and more I'm thinking was a studio mandated vacation for Stephen, so the dude could get some rest and the insurance claims could be avoided. Plus, developing Black Canary without Oliver is not a bad plan on paper, and having Arsenal become less of a sidekick is also not a bad plan, especially if they're using him to test out what a Teen Titans show might look like [Warner/DC seem to test out everything on Arrow after all]. Crazy Eyes has spin-off written all over him, so I won't be surprised if one of the episodes IS an Atom soft pilot. In anyway, it really does look to me like the exact same game play as last season's.

 

...Which I'm like -30% excited about, but not surprised it's happening.

Edited January 8, 2015 by dancingnancy

[Sunshine]

I think they're doing the exact same thing they did in S2: these middle-of-the-road episodes need to set up whatever Big Things are gonna happen in the last strech of episodes,

Please tell me this doesn't include a Felicity & Ray lunge at the end of 3.13.

[dtissagirl]

Please tell me this doesn't include a Felicity & Ray lunge at the end of 3.13.

 

I'm pretty much assuming [crash positions] they're gonna hook up, yes. February Sweeps is usually when Temporary Love Interests get their Temporary Romance Arc too, so yeah, it'd be right around 313-314 too. Thank the Lords of Kobol for the fast-forward button.

[jay741982]

If they actually do it like Oliver and Sara ill hurl and want to throw things. There is no reason Felicity should hook up with Ray. But MG is an idiot with his starcrossed BS and seems to think Fans won't shout OOC or some of the fans who only villfiy women even when the man is the one being an idiot like Oliver has been won't villfiy her. But he's also a big Laurel fan so I won't be Surpised if he wants to get Felicitys popularity knocked down cause he's mad Laurel is generally hated by viewers

[Sunshine]

I'm pretty much assuming [crash positions] they're gonna hook up, yes. February Sweeps is usually when Temporary Love Interests get their Temporary Romance Arc too, so yeah, it'd be right around 313-314 too. Thank the Lords of Kobol for the fast-forward button.

Do you think we'll get a lunge between Chase and Thea? They kissed in 3A too! LOL!

Unfortunately I watch live so no fast-forward button for me. :(

[BkWurm1]

I'm still hoping Ray is a one and done thing like Oliver was with Isabel except instead of a one night stand it would be a one off kiss.  From the narrative's standpoint with him being still messed up about his finance's death and Felicity losing Oliver, it makes so much more sense for both of them to hunker down and devote their energy to his suit except I also don't want that to change when Oliver comes back from the dead and there is some other stupid reason for keeping Oliver and Felicity apart. 

 

It's so hard to fault Felicity if she looks elsewhere if Oliver comes back and though his last words to her were "I love you" still says nothing's changed.  At that point it's just cruel. 

Edited January 8, 2015 by BkWurm1

[jay741982]

I had a theory that sounds stupid about when Oliver comes back and if they still stall Olicity: when he comes back he's all in for being with her but SHE is the one who stalls it cause she took Malcolm at his word and feels like she don't deserve him cause she gave up didn't demand more proof that he was dead. With this Troll who runs the show I wouldn't be Surprised

[BkWurm1]

I had a theory that sounds stupid about when Oliver comes back and if they still stall Olicity: when he comes back he's all in for being with her but SHE is the one who stalls it cause she took Malcolm at his word and feels like she don't deserve him cause she gave up didn't demand more proof that he was dead. With this Troll who runs the show I wouldn't be Surprised

I'd prefer that to Oliver doubling down on the distraction thing.  Bonus points because it's not likely to send her into Ray's arms.

[jay741982]

But knowing Guggenheim in my theory she hooks up with Ray. Then Oliver tells her he wont stop fighting for them to be together. Then in the last 3 episodes of the season she stops beating herself up and Olicity is a go! Of course I agree with you that Ray should not be an Option for her she loves Oliver

[Password]

You're both depressing me.

[jay741982]

I'm sorry Limbo I don't wanna depress you. My wish is Oliver comes back sees Felicity last declares his love again than she does. Commence hot make out session than Sexytimes. But MG is an idiot who needs to bombarded by Olicity fans that are tired of the unnecessary angst that they aren't starcrossed and this season has been depressing and we need SOME lightness in this season

Edited January 9, 2015 by jay741982

[apinknightmare]

Something EBR said in an interview a while back about Felicity possibly being wary of Oliver leads me to believe that he might come back and want to be with her, but she's understandably stand-offish because he a) keeps telling her he loves her (in roundabout and direct ways) but that he can't/won't be with her, b) doesn't have such a good track record with relationships, and c) pushes people away at the first sign of trouble - among other things. Maybe she'd casually date Ray but be unable to put her whole heart into it while he proves himself to her and then they get together at the end of the season, just in time for her to get kidnapped or something over the hiatus, because people would lose their shit if they missed the flirting that led up to the date AND the beginning of the relationship. OR maybe that's just me.

[jay741982]

You make great points Apinknightmare and I'm pretty sure all the Olicity fans want to SEE Oliver pursue her , woo her and then get her than see their first time hitting the sheets

Edited January 9, 2015 by jay741982

[Carrie Ann]

Maybe she'd casually date Ray but be unable to put her whole heart into it while he proves himself to her and then they get together at the end of the season, just in time for her to get kidnapped or something over the hiatus, because people would lose their shit if they missed the flirting that led up to the date AND the beginning of the relationship. OR maybe that's just me.

 

Not just you, and I've brought this up many times here, but I keep looking for an out--some way to make it so that they don't get together right before the hiatus, or that there's no time jump over the hiatus or something. Because goddammit I will be so pissed if we miss the first five months of their relationship.

[Chaser]

I would understand if Felicity was wary of being in a relationship with Oliver right away. There were a lot of missed signals and he waits until he walks to his death to say "I Love You." Plus the added trauma of experiencing his 'death.' And his comeback will no doubt be a shock to the system for her and he may struggle with it as well. They don't need Ray as an obstacle to Olicity. There are plenty of organic reasons to take it slow and wait. 

 

Honestly, Ray already served his purpose on the 'romance' front.

Edited January 9, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[statsgirl]

Honestly, Ray already served his purpose on the 'romance' front.

Yep.  That's why there's going to be no Ray/Felicity romantic relationship.  (Fingers in ears, la, la, la, la)

 

Oliver's willingness to sacrifice himself for all and sundry is enough of a bar to their relationship at this point.