S01.E03: What Flowers May Bloom

[formerlyfreedom]

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When Lou describes his vision for the show's staging and design, Tracey questions his every decision - but it's Simon's bombshell news that forces Lou to ask himself whether picking this controversial show was worth the cost. Meanwhile, Coach Strickland attempts to rehabilitate Gordy, and Gail worries for Maashous. Lilette struggles to contain her feelings for Robbie after discovering another side of him.

 

 

[Lady Calypso]

And Lou keeps getting worse and worse for me. He's such a pompous piece of shit. I loathed his meeting with the other adults about the play. No, Lou, you can't just worry about the money later. You are not right for this job. Tracey's still pretty great. I think we're supposed to think that they both need each other, but Lou needs Tracey way more than she needs him. I love that she stood up to him in an awesome way. He's a real douchebag. Him also deciding to not tell Maashous that he had to go back to his foster home was kind of ok. I get that seeing Maashous' unideal foster home conditions had him change his mind, but Lou does things with little regard for his family. I feel torn about the Maashous stuff because I know he was right in choosing to let him stay with them longer, but he went about it the wrong way.

I really don't like Lilette's mother. That being said, I'm glad she ended things with the coach. Lilette's mother needs to learn to grow up, it seems. 

Lilette and Robbie's story this week was fine. They're continuing to plant the romantic seeds. This week, Lilette finds out about Robbie's mother! 

I do feel bad for Simon, but it looks like he's staying! I guess it's a good thing Lou rudely shoved his foot in Simon's front door to stop the door from slamming in his face. It's also a good thing Simon's mother doesn't seem to be as rah-rah about sticking to their faith and beliefs as his father is. Simon's relationship with his sister is nice, though. 

[kaygeeret]

While I understand al lot of the negative comments about the show, I still really like it.

Lou was confounded in every way this week...and he attempted to help Simon - and fix his hubris.

I think we are looking at a show that is trying to show growth, and that is a tough thing to do.  Lots of stereotypes to deal with.  Lots of "mid life angst" with Lou and Wife and family problems.

I agree with someone who mentioned that their son is probably into much more than booze.  They are not dealing with it very well either, altho' I'm not sure anyone has solved the problem of how to deal with drug/alcohol/addiction when teens are involved.

I like the show a lot.  It is a bit messy and sometimes incoherent; sometimes opaque and sometimes plain soap opera.....and sometime I feel it reflects all the conflicts real life presents.  We'll see if this continues for me.

[KaleyFirefly]

I hate how this show continues the cliche that every other show and movie has about foster parents -- that they are terrible and neglectful. I know some of them might be, but I have also known some that are great and really loved the kids they took care of. But almost EVERY show and movie make foster parents look like abusive jerks.

I was hoping that after Rosie Perez's impassioned "I know every prop in here" speech that Lou would agree to take an assistant role and let her be the director instead. But no.

Edited March 28, 2018 by KaleyFirefly

[tennisgurl]

Lou really is ridiculous in how self important he is. The stuff with Maashous is probably as good as he gets, as he actually does have the moral high ground, but the "Lou lectures everyone about how much they suck and how right he is" is getting old SUPER fast.

The super passionate speech Rosie Perez gave was great, but it just opened up that same question I've had since the first episode...why is she not in charge? Either in story or in the show, why is she not in charge, with Lou as her assistant? Like what happened in real life? It makes a million times more sense for her to be in charge anyway. 

Glad Simon is staying around, and his mom at least isnt incapable of opening her mind. I mean, it was pretty dang extreme to take him out of school because of a play. A play their dang priest said was alright! 

[CelticBlackCat]

Another speech from Rosie?  I completely forgot to tune in again!  I'll have to watch on my Roku channel that carries Rise.  I'm looking forward to more Miss Wolfe and have been fair-warned that Lou is continuing to be, as I call it, insufferable.

[itsjustme]

Why was Hänschen singing Left Behind?  Unless they were just trying to fit a song into a character's narrative.

[retrograde]

I'm just straight hate-watching this show now, and it has made the whole experience so much better. Standing ovation in my household when Rosie Perez finally tore into Josh Radnor (I still know no one's name), and boos when his wife inevitably caved into keeping the lighting kid while Radnor smirked smugly and everyone just ignored their struggling alcoholic son. We were also yelling for the god squad parents to call the cops when he very inappropriately showed up at their door, and just completely lost it laughing at the scenery-chewing "I need to know what you believe in!" exchange (I knew we were in for a turgid monologue about inspiring kids, but still for a fleeting second I hoped his deadpan reply would be, "Oh, we're Lutherans.")

I'm telling you, guys – just embrace that this is a bad show* about a massive jerk always getting his way, while a gang of comically cliched sad-sack teens trudge from one misery to the next, and everything is so much more fun. It's the new Smash, but somehow with way less actual musical theater. 

* unless you like the show, which is totally valid; but for the rest of us...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As someone who has tried to sleep in the same room with a snorer, I definitely felt for Gordy at the beginning of the episode. I know Maashous can't help being a snorer, but you know what you CAN help? Touching cookies that are going to be sold at a fundraiser and then putting them back in the container!

It's hard for me to feel bad for the football coach though. He cheated on his wife and he's acting like he's the wounded one because his wife is still pissed? Sorry, dude, you were the one who cheated. You don't get to play the victim. His wife is right to be mad because even if he's moved back home, he's still having an emotional affair if he's visiting Vanessa at work and giving her presents.

I was firmly on Tracey's side during the first production meeting. If you know that your budget is $750 then your plans for the sets need to be in line with that. Lou's "let's dream big and deal with the money later!" attitude really annoyed me. No, Lou. You need to work with the budget you have, not the budget you wish you had.

Or, hey, come up with creative ways to create the look you want without spending a lot of money. If he had said, "We don't need to build that steel town backdrop with lumber and canvas. We can just paint it on the back wall," then okay, I could at least see that he was looking for ways to achieve the design he wanted without spending more than they had. But nope, his response was "LA LA LA I can't hear you!"

When he was yelling at Tracey about how he didn't want to compromise, I just rolled my eyes. Someone has to live in the real world and work with the actual budget that's available. If Lou had his way, they would just spend the $750 they have and then have no money left for whatever they hadn't bought yet.

Lilette's mom made me scratch my head. You're a single mom working as a waitress at a diner and money is tight. You buy an iphone, which isn't cheap, but you refuse to spend $5-$20 on a phone case to protect an expensive phone so you don't have to replace it? I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but I still buy a phone case in the hopes that if/when I drop my phone, I won't break the damn thing. It's worth the $20 investment, man.

The look on Vanessa's face as Lilette repeated the life lessons she has learned from her ("all guys are the same" and "a guy like Robbie Thorne will never care about a girl like me") made me hope that Vanessa had finally learned how her bad choices were affecting her daughter's world view and self esteem.

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The super passionate speech Rosie Perez gave was great, but it just opened up that same question I've had since the first episode...why is she not in charge? Either in story or in the show, why is she not in charge, with Lou as her assistant? Like what happened in real life? It makes a million times more sense for her to be in charge anyway.

In real life, Lou had already been the drama director for many years before Tracey became the assistant drama director.  Tracey was a former student of Lou's who returned to the high school as a teacher. She had to wait several years to get the assistant director position because there were three or four teachers at the school with more seniority who were Lou's assistant directors before she had the opportunity to take the job.

Edited March 28, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[BonnieD]

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And Lou keeps getting worse and worse for me. He's such a pompous piece of shit. I loathed his meeting with the other adults about the play. No, Lou, you can't just worry about the money later. You are not right for this job. 

I straight up gasped when he denigrated all the plays ever put on in the theater department before him. What a slap in the face to Tracey. Super asshole. Hate him. And while I'm all for character arcs and growth, I don't think he's been established with enough appealing traits for me to root for Lou. Maybe if he showed more flashes  of humor he'd be more palatable. Maybe if the whole show took itself a little less seriously and was less preachy.

Jason Katims hits so many of the same beats he did in FNL and Parenthood that this all feels way too familiar. Also, he carries on the Parenthood tradition of people considering themselves special snowflakes whose needs and/or visions trump everyone else's. It has all the negative aspects of Parenthood and so far, none of the heartwarming moments that made me keep tuning in (even through the stupid storyline of what's-her- face having cancer then immediately running for office as well as juggling a toddler and autistic son). I mean, I'm all for drama, but there can be drama in small moments. It doesn't always require huge, over-the-top, situations to illustrate someone's character or inner growth. Take a cue from My So-Called Life, so natural, so low-key, so real.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The look on Vanessa's face as Lilette repeated the life lessons she has learned from her ("all guys are the same" and "a guy like Robbie Thorne will never care about a girl like me") made me hope that Vanessa had finally learned how her bad choices were affecting her daughter's world view and self esteem.

Yeah, you could see it sinking in. I'm sure Vanessa has made her share of "your dad ain't shit" comments over the years, given that there doesn't appear to be a dad in the picture - I'd guess that "you taught me not to believe in fairy tales" comments was about expecting a guy to swoop in and take care of her. I've heard single mothers say a version of that. Vanessa is right that relationships are often gray areas (I think we're meant to believe that the coach really did care for her, it wasn't just sex), but she's also right that she needs to model better relationship behavior. (She should have kept the phone case, though.)

This show REALLY needs to do a better job at making Lou a decent character. He just seems like a dick. He CONSTANTLY trashes Tracy when she's the only one who gets anything done.

[sugarbaker design]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Lilette's mom made me scratch my head. You're a single mom working as a waitress at a diner and money is tight. You buy an iphone, which isn't cheap, but you refuse to spend $5-$20 on a phone case to protect an expensive phone so you don't have to replace it? I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, but I still buy a phone case in the hopes that if/when I drop my phone, I won't break the damn thing. It's worth the $20 investment, man.

It's telling us about the character though, Lilette's mom (I can't remember her name) seems to be living a life of bad decisions.

13 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

I agree with someone who mentioned that their son is probably into much more than booze.  They are not dealing with it very well either, altho' I'm not sure anyone has solved the problem of how to deal with drug/alcohol/addiction when teens are involved.

For someone's who's a lush and may be a drug addict his skins is flawless!

And Tracy giving it to Lou on a silver platter gave me life!!!  For someone who's a bad teacher, an awful father, a ridiculous husband, an atrocious director and all-around asshole, he gets a lot of airtime.  I'd love to FF through all his scenes, but he's basically in every scene.

Edited March 28, 2018 by sugarbaker design

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, BonnieD said:

Jason Katims hits so many of the same beats he did in FNL and Parenthood that this all feels way too familiar. Also, he carries on the Parenthood tradition of people considering themselves special snowflakes whose needs and/or visions trump everyone else's. It has all the negative aspects of Parenthood and so far, none of the heartwarming moments that made me keep tuning in (even through the stupid storyline of what's-her- face having cancer then immediately running for office as well as juggling a toddler and autistic son). I mean, I'm all for drama, but there can be drama in small moments. It doesn't always require huge, over-the-top, situations to illustrate someone's character or inner growth. Take a cue from My So-Called Life, so natural, so low-key, so real.

Don't forget starting a charter school for precious Max! One of the reasons I started watching Parenthood is because Jason Katims got his start on My So-Called Life, which was one of my favorite tv shows because it captured the emotions of being a teenager so realistically, even in small mundane moments.

[Former Nun]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Touching cookies that are going to be sold at a fundraiser and then putting them back in the container!

He's a teenager!   And a foster kid.  Putting the cookie back seemed like an act of charity to me.

[formerlyfreedom]

Please keep this discussion to the episode - if you want to talk about the book, there is a book talk topic available for comparison.

[Unraveled]

It's definitely a struggle for me to continue to watch this show. I can't seem to root for the characters, and there's not enough singing for me to keep watching for the songs.

I actually kind of liked Simon singing Left Behind the way that he did. Yes, it wasn't his character's song, but it seemed like a nice send off to someone who had a very long history with the "club." Tracey is definitely the heart of the show, and I really loved how devastated she was at the possibility of losing him.

19 hours ago, retrograde said:

I'm telling you, guys – just embrace that this is a bad show* about a massive jerk always getting his way, while a gang of comically cliched sad-sack teens trudge from one misery to the next, and everything is so much more fun. It's the new Smash, but somehow with way less actual musical theater.

At least Smash had a lot of singing by some very talented people. Though that show was very delusional that the audience is supposed to think that Megan Hilty is a weaker actor and singer than Katharine McPhee.

[LittleIggy]

Wouldn’t Simon’s parents have been happy that the girl in the play who has premarital sex dies from an abortion? ?

[J-Man]

If Simon was planning to leave the school, why was he still participating in rehearsals?

[itsjustme]

On 3/28/2018 at 11:46 PM, LittleIggy said:

Wouldn’t Simon’s parents have been happy that the girl in the play who has premarital sex dies from an abortion? ?

"Don't have sex, because you will get pregnant and die!" Coach Carr - Mean Girls

21 hours ago, J-Man said:

If Simon was planning to leave the school, why was he still participating in rehearsals?

I think since the song was Left Behind which is a Mechior/Robbie song, maybe Robbie had to be at football so he sang that to help them rehearse and because the song title worked for his narrative?

[LittleIggy]

On 3/28/2018 at 10:54 PM, Unraveled said:

 

At least Smash had a lot of singing by some very talented people. Though that show was very delusional that the audience is supposed to think that Megan Hilty is a weaker actor and singer than Katharine McPhee.

That drove me crazy because Hilty is a real Broadway star. She was so superior to McPhee and her Mary Sue character.

[IntoTheMystic]

I tuned into this show because someone told me that it had echoes of My So Called Life. I've watched all three episodes twice and haven't seen anything that comes close to My So Called Life, which IMHO, is one of the BEST television shows of all time. 

I do LOVE the cast diversity, though. I just really hate Mr. Mazoo and everything he does, including not doing crap to truly help his alcoholic son. 

I need to stop trying to find shows that speak to me on the same level that MSCL and Buffy the Vampire Slayer did because it hasn't happened yet. And it's always a disappointment.