S07.E15: Keep Chugging Away

[GreatKazu]

12 minutes ago, AirQuotes said:

These are very good points you made.  Suicide attempts should always be taken seriously.  Always.  In my personal life, when my mom was suffering in the moderate stages of dementia she would threaten suicide.  I would have to report to her psychiatrist and she would have to be admitted to an inpatient psych facility.  She didnt even have the ability to put together a sandwich, and quite often I felt like she would have followed through except she couldn't figure out how to do it.  Threatening suicide is a cry for help and a strong indicator that something is drastically wrong mentally.

Yes, they should be taken seriously, except no one admitted Cate to a psych facility. They took their time with getting her help which entailed shipping her off on a plane to a rehab facility in another state on the other side of the country that took hours for her to get to because of flight delays. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that if someone is threatening suicide, you get them immediate help or call 911, regardless if they are crying wolf or not. 

Also, people can use suicide threats as a form of manipulation. They threaten to harm themselves as a way to control and manipulate, and it can be used for attention-seeking reasons. 

I do think there is something definitely wrong with Cate mentally, but she is not honest about what is truly troubling her and she is not receiving the proper treatment for what is truly ailing her. I think she is one of those people who threatens suicide for altruistic reasons and manipulation. That in itself reeks of mental issues. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by GreatKazu

[FairyDusted]

Many great points throughout the discussion but I ultimately I fall on the side of the post above by @GreatKazu. It comes down to safety and help in a swift amount of time. Reality is really gonna suck if Cate ever finds herself in a State run institution. I hope she really is learning to cope properly in AZ. She may not have that chance again to be able to buy in at a resort style center with stables. More like cards and graham crackers on a Wednesday. 

[GreatKazu]

53 minutes ago, FairyDusted said:

Many great points throughout the discussion but I ultimately I fall on the side of the post above by @GreatKazu. It comes down to safety and help in a swift amount of time. Reality is really gonna suck if Cate ever finds herself in a State run institution. I hope she really is learning to cope properly in AZ. She may not have that chance again to be able to buy in at a resort style center with stables. More like cards and graham crackers on a Wednesday. 

I have a feeling once the MTV money is gone, so will her threats after she realizes what you just pointed out. 

[AirQuotes]

20 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Yes, they should be taken seriously, except no one admitted Cate to a psych facility. They took their time with getting her help which entailed shipping her off on a plane to a rehab facility in another state on the other side of the country that took hours for her to get to because of flight delays. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that if someone is threatening suicide, you get them immediate help or call 911, regardless if they are crying wolf or not. 

Also, people can use suicide threats as a form of manipulation. They threaten to harm themselves as a way to control and manipulate, and it can be used for attention-seeking reasons. 

I do think there is something definitely wrong with Cate mentally, but she is not honest about what is truly troubling her and she is not receiving the proper treatment for what is truly ailing her. I think she is one of those people who threatens suicide for altruistic reasons and manipulation. That in itself reeks of mental issues. 

Yes!  I'm with you on all of this.  When the wheels fall of the Teen Mom gravy train, Cate is in for a rude awakening!  Verbalizing suicidal ideations won't get her a first class seat on a flight to Arizona to spend weeks and months away at horse camp cushy spa treatment "rehab".  It will get her isolated on an ER gurney while she sits there for hours or even days while they wait for a psych bed to open up for her.  She will be transported there strapped down in an ambulance or in the back of a police car.   That's what should have happened when all this went down.

I think Cate is a master manipulator.  She is quick to dismiss anyone else's stresses and frustrations and exaggerate her own.  It is all about her!  She is a professional victim at this point.  She does have mental health issues, but I don't think she is being properly treated.  

[AirQuotes]

17 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

Many great points throughout the discussion but I ultimately I fall on the side of the post above by @GreatKazu. It comes down to safety and help in a swift amount of time. Reality is really gonna suck if Cate ever finds herself in a State run institution. I hope she really is learning to cope properly in AZ. She may not have that chance again to be able to buy in at a resort style center with stables. More like cards and graham crackers on a Wednesday. 

Your description of state run psych facilities is better than any I could ever write.  She won't be at horse camp braiding horses' manes and tails.  She will be in a lock-down psych unit on the top floor of the hospital with bars on the windows.

[Rebecca]

22 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Yes, they should be taken seriously, except no one admitted Cate to a psych facility. They took their time with getting her help which entailed shipping her off on a plane to a rehab facility in another state on the other side of the country that took hours for her to get to because of flight delays. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that if someone is threatening suicide, you get them immediate help or call 911, regardless if they are crying wolf or not. 

Also, people can use suicide threats as a form of manipulation. They threaten to harm themselves as a way to control and manipulate, and it can be used for attention-seeking reasons. 

I do think there is something definitely wrong with Cate mentally, but she is not honest about what is truly troubling her and she is not receiving the proper treatment for what is truly ailing her. I think she is one of those people who threatens suicide for altruistic reasons and manipulation. That in itself reeks of mental issues. 

I’m confused by the use of that word here - it means selfless concern for others. Aren’t you saying the opposite, that she threatens suicide for selfish reasons? Alruistic suicide is a thing but it’s when someone kills themselves for, what they think is, the good of everyone else. Are you saying that Catelynn actually thinks that if she killed herself it would be better for everyone else and that’s why she threatens it? Or that she wants people to think that but it’s actually for manipulation?

[GreatKazu]

52 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

I’m confused by the use of that word here - it means selfless concern for others. Aren’t you saying the opposite, that she threatens suicide for selfish reasons? Alruistic suicide is a thing but it’s when someone kills themselves for, what they think is, the good of everyone else. Are you saying that Catelynn actually thinks that if she killed herself it would be better for everyone else and that’s why she threatens it? Or that she wants people to think that but it’s actually for manipulation?

Yes, the last part of your post. I should have clarified. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I think it is all part of her manipulation. I think there is a small part of her that is giving the impression that she is better off leaving this world so Tyler won't have to deal with her issues, he doesn't deserve having to deal with her and her issues, she will do him that favor by ending it all. 

[ReadMeLattice]

On 3/31/2018 at 10:14 AM, GreatKazu said:

Yes, they should be taken seriously, except no one admitted Cate to a psych facility. They took their time with getting her help which entailed shipping her off on a plane to a rehab facility in another state on the other side of the country that took hours for her to get to because of flight delays. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that if someone is threatening suicide, you get them immediate help or call 911, regardless if they are crying wolf or not. 

Also, people can use suicide threats as a form of manipulation. They threaten to harm themselves as a way to control and manipulate, and it can be used for attention-seeking reasons. 

I do think there is something definitely wrong with Cate mentally, but she is not honest about what is truly troubling her and she is not receiving the proper treatment for what is truly ailing her. I think she is one of those people who threatens suicide for altruistic reasons and manipulation. That in itself reeks of mental issues. 

 

I agree but think she might not even know what she's doing because the toxicity runs *that* deep. I don't think she and Tyler have ever matured past the age when they had Carly and are still locked in a 16 year old mindset--a *troubled* 16 year old mindset, not even an age-appropriate teenage mindset. 

I think she does try to manipulate, partly because it gives her an excuse and partly because she understandably likely had to learn how to get attention in her abusive home life with neglectful addict parents. I don't know how much either of them is aware that they're lying or hiding anything, because there's not much awareness there at all, just dysfunction...they're just like troubled children trying to be parents. They would really almost have to be reparented through intensive outpatient or constant monitoring, imo, to make any real difference. Like a special program for people who come from broken homes or out of the foster care system. I don't think simple outpatient therapy once a week is going to do the trick, or resort stays or state hospitals. Like, are they even smart enough to know what they're doing or to cover it up?

The last thing they should be doing is having kids of their own, but here we are.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Lm2162

[TheRealT]

11 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I agree but think she might not even know what she's doing because the toxicity runs *that* deep. I don't think she and Tyler have ever matured past the age when they had Carly and are still locked in a 16 year old mindset--a *troubled* 16 year old mindset, not even an age-appropriate teenage mindset. 

I think she does try to manipulate, partly because it gives her an excuse and partly because she understandably likely had to learn how to get attention in her abusive home life with neglectful addict parents. I don't know how much either of them is aware that they're lying or hiding anything, because there's not much awareness there at all, just dysfunction...they're just like troubled children trying to be parents. They would really almost have to be reparented through intensive outpatient or constant monitoring, imo, to make any real difference. Like a special program for people who come from broken homes or out of the foster care system. I don't think simple outpatient therapy once a week is going to do the trick, or resort stays or state hospitals. Like, are they even smart enough to know what they're doing or to cover it up?

The last thing they should be doing is having kids of their own, but here we are.

I also believe that Cate isn't completely aware of/responsible for her dysfunctional behavior. That doesn't mean that she gets a 100% pass, but I feel like it's not productive to insist upon blaming her for things that she can't realistically fix/control. She's broken and it's true that broken people shouldn't have kids, do whatever else, but once they do those things it's no use to keep harping on how they're too fucked up to meet their responsibilities in those arenas/generally.

[GreatKazu]

But they can keep from bringing additional children into the toxic mix. 

How many episodes have aired without any mention of Carly? Is it a record?

[ReadMeLattice]

6 hours ago, TheRealT said:

I also believe that Cate isn't completely aware of/responsible for her dysfunctional behavior. That doesn't mean that she gets a 100% pass, but I feel like it's not productive to insist upon blaming her for things that she can't realistically fix/control. She's broken and it's true that broken people shouldn't have kids, do whatever else, but once they do those things it's no use to keep harping on how they're too fucked up to meet their responsibilities in those arenas/generally.

I don't have any idea what the answer is to the nature vs. nurture, blame vs. no blame, "when do we become accountable adults" debate, but I do often wonder what would change the path they're on. Once a week therapy ain't gonna cut it, nor is resort therapy. They'd have to find experts who specialize in... 

-witnessing DV as a child

-growing up in a family of addicts

-families of incarcerated individuals

-being abused yourself as a child

-adoption, specifically open adoption

-teen pregnancy

-the long term psychological effects of growing up on reality TV, being in the public eye in general

-postpartum depression

-codependent relationships and trauma bonding 

-substance abuse

-binge eating 

Then they'd also have to be able to get Catelynn to admit her dependency on Tyler and for Tyler to see past his narcissism. 

Like holy shit who would this clinician or team of clinicians be, because I'd love for them to help solve my problems too. Lol! 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Lm2162

[GreatKazu]

3 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I don't have any idea what the answer is to the nature vs. nurture, blame vs. no blame, "when do we become accountable adults" debate, but I do often wonder what would change the path they're on. Once a week therapy ain't gonna cut it, nor is resort therapy. They'd have to find experts who specialize in... 

-witnessing DV as a child

-growing up in a family of addicts

-families of incarcerated individuals

-being abused yourself as a child

-adoption, specifically open adoption

-teen pregnancy

-the long term psychological effects of growing up on reality TV, being in the public eye in general

-postpartum depression

-codependent relationships and trauma bonding 

-substance abuse

-binge eating 

Then they'd also have to be able to get Catelynn to admit her dependency on Tyler and for Tyler to see past his narcissism. 

Like holy shit who would this clinician or team of clinicians be, because I'd love for them to help solve my problems too. Lol! 

Right.

We can debate whether Cate is aware or not aware. She might be aware to a degree with some issues and she might not be aware with other issues. It isn't so black and white with the boatload of issues that Cate has going on. 

Her latest tweet is telling the world that she wouldn't change anything about her life growing up. I suppose all that dv, drug use, various forms of abuse and trauma are just happy memories.

What then is she in rehab for if she is downplaying her traumatized childhood? Is rehab just her ploy for attention? 

[FozzyBear]

On 3/20/2018 at 8:40 PM, Snarky McSnarky said:

Is Bubby the only person in the TM Universe who didn't hear about Andrew's TWO restraining orders from ex-girlfriends?  The first woman even made a point of requesting that her dog be protected as well.  There must have been a reason for that specific request.  Then there's the drug bust.  Not marijuana, but heroin and ecstasy.  The dude is hardly a clean slate.  Oh, and he does not have a job anymore.

I don’t really follow this show outside of the show so I didn’t know, but I’m not surprised. Are they still together in real time?

 There’s no nice way to say this but I can’t think of a single non-shady reason someone would want to be with Amber. She’s average looking in the way I would probably find her cute if she was a nice person, but she’s not. She’s a bitch and mentally unstable (not the same thing). She’s pretty dumb, has no education or skills. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her express an interesting or truly kind thought or have a good conversation. She barely has a relationship with her daughter and shows no awareness of that. Honestly, other then MTV money and fame what does Amber bring to the table? I don’t even know how someone begins to wrap their head around the idea that they are such a garbage person they should be suspicious of anyone who wants to spend time with them, but I suggest Amber try.

Cait has a ton of anger. It really starts to show when she’s “working on herself.” She hates everyone in her life.