Ice hockey

[ShellsandCheese]

17 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

The dirtiest Olympic race and probably still the biggest doping scandal took place when they were technically still 'amateurs'. Russia got banned because it was a state sanctioned program, and lets be real that dates back to the Soviet block era, also back when they were amateurs. As long as there is sports there will be cheaters, amateur or not.

Yeah. You’re right. Historically Russia, Germany, US, China have all had major doping issues. Maybe, not as audacious as Russia but when it happens on a regular basis, it’s basically sanctioned. There’s the East German swimming program, Russia Track and Field, US Track and Field, Chinese sending underage gymnasts to compete, etc. I would imagine that more people cheat than who do not cheat unfortunately. 

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/2/14/17003898/olympics-russia-doping-science

[legaleagle53]

56 minutes ago, xaxat said:

What the Russians did in Sochi was on a whole 'nother level from the individual level of cheating we have seen before. The former head of the Russian anti doping organization admitted his participation not only in helping athletes devise better PED cocktails, he also detailed how Russian intelligence helped to swap out potentially dirty samples with clean ones. This was a government operation, not an individual, sport or coach organized one.

And then there is the whole hacking thing. 

Agreed.  That last thing alone should be grounds for an absolute ban for the next decade or so.

[stealinghome]

48 minutes ago, xaxat said:

What the Russians did in Sochi was on a whole 'nother level from the individual level of cheating we have seen before. The former head of the Russian anti doping organization admitted his participation not only in helping athletes devise better PED cocktails, he also detailed how Russian intelligence helped to swap out potentially dirty samples with clean ones. This was a government operation, not an individual, sport or coach organized one.

And then there is the whole hacking thing. 

I also think people are irritated by the IOC’s essentially toothless “ban” on Team Russia. If you’re going to talk like you carry a big stick and are going to be So Tough On Cheaters, and then you basically wimp out and walk your Tough Talk waaaaay back (and THEN you let members of the OAR team break the rules you laid out for their inclusion with no penalty), you can’t expect people not to call you out and roll their eyes. If you don’t intend to actually come down hard, fine, but then don’t pretend you do. You end up looking even more spineless and weak.

also Russia has not helped the situation by spitting in the IOC’s face and showing what a farce the ban was/is. Other countries would probably at least pretend to be sorry.

Re: amateurism, the other problem with it is the loose definition of amateurs. The 1980 Russian team was technically made up of amateurs but if their job description was basically “hockey player,” were they really amateurs?

[ombelico]

I honestly couldn't really care who wins hockey, but the OAR team should be stripped of their gold medals for singing the Russian anthem while the Olympic anthem was playing. The IOC told them they were not allowed to make any political statements or protests of the ban. How is that not a protest?

[greyhorse]

5 hours ago, stealinghome said:

Especially since they basically had a power play to kill regulation! All they had to do was pass it around the Russian zone and play keep-away! I get wanting to play aggressive (to win, not to not lose) but at some point you have to be smart too.

Once Russia scored with like 10 seconds left I knew they were going to win in OT. Germany had nothing left in the tank and kinda looked defeated already.

So true. 90 seconds or so of just passing the puck around, taking it back to your zone, etc.  How hard would that have been.  Play keep away.  There is no shot clock in hockey.  Not sure why they didn't play it smarter.

The whole OAR thing was a joke. Russian athletes are on record saying it doesn't matter what it says on the uniform, since they know where they come from and where their loyalties lie.

[mledawn]

I miss the NHL players. I am so sad for Steven Stamkos who missed participating at the Olympics (he was an alternate in 2010 and injured in 2014 - although Martin St Louis going in his spot was a fantastic story).

I'd like the owners to reconsider, but I do see their side of it - the NHL is a business and those players are their assets. But there are young players in the league now who have never known an Olympics without NHLers (til now), and are probably disappointed at not getting the opportunity.

[redpencil]

I don't know if this is true (and haven't done any research), but I heard that the NHL tried to negotiate with the IOC for some broadcast/video rights. They were willing to shut down (which is far from ideal for them) if they could at least use the opportunity to market their players. The IOC wouldn't budge, so NHL said no. Not sure all the details, but I don't believe it was the NHL just flat out refusing.

[Cherpumple]

14 hours ago, ombelico said:

I honestly couldn't really care who wins hockey, but the OAR team should be stripped of their gold medals for singing the Russian anthem while the Olympic anthem was playing. The IOC told them they were not allowed to make any political statements or protests of the ban. How is that not a protest?

Yeah, that was bizarre. I know that emotions were high since the ceremony was right after the end of the game, but the crowd and the players were singing so loudly I could barely hear the Olympic anthem. I didn't see the ceremony for the only other OAR gold medalist (in women's figure skating), so I'm not sure if the same thing happened. Since it happened only a few hours until before the end of the Games, the IOC probably thought it wasn't worth doing anything about. I mean, why start getting tough now?

Speaking of the medals ceremony, it was great to see the Germans looking so happy to win silver (in stark contrast to the shell-shocked looks of the Canadian women). It's amazing how far they've come in recent years (didn't even qualify for the 2014 games) and it was wonderful to see them enjoying their accomplishment, despite losing the final game moments earlier. And where were the Canadian men's team? The Finnish women received their bronze medals at the same time as the US and Canadian women, so why didn't that happen at the men's ceremony too?

[kili]

Quote

And where were the Canadian men's team? The Finnish women received their bronze medals at the same time as the US and Canadian women, so why didn't that happen at the men's ceremony too?

It confused the announcers at the bronze medal match as well. They initially thought the medals would be handed out the next day, but then a medal ceremony started.   I don't know if they gave an official reason for the difference, but it may have been because the bronze and gold medal rounds for women's hockey were played on the same day while on different days for the men (and possibly at different arenas). Further, the gold medal round is played right before the closing ceremony. Perhaps the organizers wanted to give the bronze medal winning team a chance to march in the closing ceremonies? 

It was the organizer's decision, not the team's. Sadly, I have seen a lot of comments blaming the Canadian team assuming that they were being poor sports like that female player. They weren't. They were quite happy to win a medal at these Olympics and it was a career highlight for many of them. 

How come the hockey players don't get stuffed tigers? They handed out the souvenir with the medals at Rio. I would want the stuffie.

[mledawn]

33 minutes ago, kili said:

It confused the announcers at the bronze medal match as well. They initially thought the medals would be handed out the next day, but then a medal ceremony started.   I don't know if they gave an official reason for the difference, but it may have been because the bronze and gold medal rounds for women's hockey were played on the same day while on different days for the men (and possibly at different arenas). Further, the gold medal round is played right before the closing ceremony. Perhaps the organizers wanted to give the bronze medal winning team a chance to march in the closing ceremonies? 

It was the organizer's decision, not the team's. Sadly, I have seen a lot of comments blaming the Canadian team assuming that they were being poor sports like that female player. They weren't. They were quite happy to win a medal at these Olympics and it was a career highlight for many of them. 

How come the hockey players don't get stuffed tigers? They handed out the souvenir with the medals at Rio. I would want the stuffie.

 

The bronze medal for the men's game has not been presented at the same time as the gold and silver medals for at least the last four Olympics, so the announcers shouldn't have been surprised. I double-checked Sochi's, Vancouver's, and SLC's post-game presentations - I made an assumption about Torino.

The women's games were played on different days (Wednesday/Thursday) very similar in format to the men's (Saturday/Sunday), but about 20h apart - the men's was I think closer to 16h apart.
 

Edited February 26, 2018 by mledawn
I didn't find anything on 06, just assuming

[Cherpumple]

5 hours ago, mledawn said:

The bronze medal for the men's game has not been presented at the same time as the gold and silver medals for at least the last four Olympics, so the announcers shouldn't have been surprised.

But why? And why was there a huge empty mat on the ice in the place where bronze medalists would have stood? It just looked strange.

[mledawn]

Under Section 5.5.8 Victory and Closing Ceremony of the IIHF Event Regulation and Guidelines it states, in part:

• The gold, silver and bronze medal winning teams will be declared immediately after the post-game ceremony of the final game by the IIHF President, or directorate chairman, accompanied by the President of the host national association. The three medal winning teams will stand in an open square facing the main tribune with the gold and silver medal teams on the blue lines with the bronze medal team along the boards between the blue lines facing the tribune

Then later in the Section, it states:

• If the Championship structure is designed so that only 2 teams are available for the victory- and closing ceremony, the bronze medal award ceremony may also take place after the bronze medal game.

I think the assumption (or accommodation to owners) for the men's division was to allow the players to return to their professional obligations as soon as their role in the tournament was complete.

 

Of additional interest in the same Section is the part that states:

• The medals have to be worn by the players around the neck in respectful manner for the duration of the closing ceremony and the following post-game mixed zone and media conference procedures. Any infraction of that rule will be reported to the IIHF Disciplinary Committee and could result in additional disciplinary sanctions under IIHF Bylaw 1001

Since Jocelyn Laroque was so completely chastised by an IIHF official immediately following the game, I would expect our man from Sweden, Lias Andersson, should have also been similarly dressed down. Shockingly (not at all shockingly), HE wasn't.

[stealinghome]

Quote

Yeah, that was bizarre. I know that emotions were high since the ceremony was right after the end of the game, but the crowd and the players were singing so loudly I could barely hear the Olympic anthem. I didn't see the ceremony for the only other OAR gold medalist (in women's figure skating), so I'm not sure if the same thing happened. Since it happened only a few hours until before the end of the Games, the IOC probably thought it wasn't worth doing anything about. I mean, why start getting tough now?

Also, that would have played right into the dominant narrative Russia wanted to create. "They are persecuting us SO UNFAIRLY, look, they even found a way to take away the gold medal that is RIGHTFULLY OURS!" The IOC set themselves up in a situation that was really lose-lose.

tbh, the IOC should've acted quicker and stripped the speedskater of his medal...it would have disincentivized the Russian hockey team to sing and/or would have set a precedent for stripping their medal. But by (shocker) mishandling the speedskater, they served notice that the hockey team could do as it pleased with no repercussion.

[Cherpumple]

5 hours ago, mledawn said:

I think the assumption (or accommodation to owners) for the men's division was to allow the players to return to their professional obligations as soon as their role in the tournament was complete.

That makes sense. Thanks for looking it up!