S05.E08: The Joke

[LiveenLetLive]

On 1/11/2018 at 7:09 AM, green said:

but in this case it was Bishop BadActor's sword.  Ivar took it from him when he was captured then returned it to him for the battle because he said the true owner of the sword can only wield it the best of some sort of crap like that.

Kind of like various wands in Harry Potter hahaha!

[Bongo Fury]

On 1/11/2018 at 3:14 PM, Yanks99 said:

Isn't Lagertha technically a usurper since she killed the rightful queen, Aslaug? 

Aslaug surrendered to Lagertha and ceded the kingdom to her, so Lagertha is not a usurper, she is the rightful queen of Kattegat.

 

2 hours ago, green said:

Also who does have the Horick/Ragnar blade these days?  

Aslaug handed the blade over to Lagertha as part of her surrender and passing rulership to Lagertha.

[Son of the Norse]

8 hours ago, Babalooie said:

Not everyone could read into my handle and know it's Ricky.  Props to you, SOTN.  

Yes I am quite intuitive when I want to be. LOL

Arrived in Bolivia a while ago.  Currently at my friend's house awaiting his beautiful wife's home cooked meal.  My friend is former CIA and former free lancer for some Bolivian "not so nice people".  I am so pumped to "Go Viking" later tonight.  He will be taking me in the next few hours via Helicopter over the border into the State of Amazonas in Brazil.  We are aiming to have me repel out of the copter around 4 am (local time) into the rain forest.  The target area is about 200 miles away from Manaus, and about 80 klicks north of Mamia.  I plan to head by foot through the rain forest at a South East bearing until I hopefully reach the Amazon river somewhere between Mamia and Codajas.   Wish me luck peeps...I might need it this adventure!

[magdalene]

The thing that bothers me most about Hirst's  writing is  that he changes characterization when the whim strikes him or when he wants to take things in another direction.   That is bad writing.  Your character should be your character and the writing should remain true to the character. 

Hirst did this to Lagertha when he had her suddenly kill Aslaug by stabbing her in the back.  While those two were never actually buddy buddy they tolerated each other quite well for several seasons and were shown as having respect for each other.

And now he is doing it to Aethelwulf and Alfred.  If Hirst wanted them to have a resentful relationship he shouldn't have written them as unusually loving and affectionate towards each other ever since Alfred was a small child.

This makes me want to grind my teeth in frustration.

[Stratego]

One other thing...What is the point of the episode's title The Joke ?

[Babalooie]

47 minutes ago, Stratego said:

What is the point of the episode's title The Joke ?

In one of the episode reviews and its comments that I read the possibilities were:

1.  Ivar telling Lagertha's army that he wanted peace

2.  Floki tricking his followers into going to Iceland

3.  The whole episode, lol.

 

Number one is probably what was intended.

[Hyrrokkin]

My thoughts:

1-I'm kind of disappointed that Ivar lost. He seems to have better tactics than team Kattegat, and they were even mentioning that themselves, so it was quite surprising.

2-I'm amused that someone cares about Athelred now, I always thought when watching the show why doesn't anybody mention the kid's existence, and why wasn't he given attention more than Alfred, since he's actually Athelwulf's Biological son and probably next in line for the throne.

3-I'm weireded out that Bjorn is  changing wives every season, his feelings change with the wind.

4-I noticed very often relationships in the show get built and destroyed, nothing lasts. I thought Halfdan and Harald's relationship was one of the strongest on the show, I'm still not entirely convinced he would drop his brother's side for Bjorn, it doesn't like something he would do. Also, Ubbe seemed to like marguerite a lot, kissing Torvi seemed random.

5-Halfdan and Hvitserk need more development, I feel they don't get enough character building scenes.

6-I'm curious why didn't Astrid try to run away this episode, as she doesn't seem to like Harald, and she had the opportunity since she was in Kattegat.

7-Not sure where is the Iceland story line is going.They go there,they build houses and find food,they establish a ruling system,what's next?

8-Judith adds nothing to the show for me.It's strange that her affair didn't have any effect on her life,besides losing an ear.I'm sure if any queen had a bastard son,she won't still be court like nothing happened,and I found it weird that she was defending Ragnar when she was in northumbria.

9-I wish they kept Sigurd,I loved his snarkiness  with Ivar,it would've been interesting to see him and Aella's daughter married.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Hyrrokkin

[whoknowswho]

On 2018-01-11 at 5:20 AM, The Kings Foot said:

His sword is probably Damascus steel, which they've never seen before. 

Maybe it’s where Oerphbert steel, so prized by Vikings comes from. I probably massacred the spelling, but that’s it’s semi pronunciation.

On 2018-01-13 at 1:35 AM, Hyrrokkin said:

My thoughts:

1-I'm kind of disappointed that Ivar lost. He seems to have better tactics than team Kattegat, and they were even mentioning that themselves, so it was quite surprising.

2-I'm amused that someone cares about Athelred now, I always thought when watching the show why doesn't anybody mention the kid's existence, and why wasn't he given attention more than Alfred, since he's actually Athelwulf's Biological son and probably next in line for the throne.

3-I'm weireded out that Bjorn is  changing wives every season, his feelings change with the wind.

4-I noticed very often relationships in the show get built and destroyed, nothing lasts. I thought Halfdan and Harald's relationship was one of the strongest on the show, I'm still not entirely convinced he would drop his brother's side for Bjorn, it doesn't like something he would do. Also, Ubbe seemed to like marguerite a lot, kissing Torvi seemed random.

5-Halfdan and Hvitserk need more development.

9-I wish they kept Sigurd,I loved his snarkiness  with Ivar,it would've been interesting to see him and Aella's daughter married.

I’m hoping they will get rid of hvitserk and thus not need development.

i really wish they had kept Sigurd and killed off Hvitserk. 

I told myself after watching and hating last season,that I was t watching this year. I have watched since it’s first episode, we’ve loved it over the years,  but it’s trying to take off Game of Thrones, not keeping to it’s simple Viking roots. Now it’s flashy clothes, for God’s sake they didn’t have banners, they fought like Berserkers, at least in Non Hirst history. I hate Astrid, hate the fact that no female is actually aging, it is silly, they should look rode hard and put away wet by their 40s I would think.

Reindeer balls was ridiculous, I miss Ragnar, and magnificent Eckbert. And Athelstan...sigh.

Edited January 14, 2018 by whoknowswho
Spelling counts

[green]

11 hours ago, Hyrrokkin said:

9-I wish they kept Sigurd,I loved his snarkiness  with Ivar,it would've been interesting to see him and Aella's daughter married.

 

8 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

i really wish they had kept Sigurd and killed off Hvitserk. 

...

Reindeer balls was ridiculous, I miss Ragnar, and magnificent Eckbert. aAnd Athelstan...sigh.

That makes three of us that still miss Sigurd.  He was really rounding into an interesting character and not afraid to stand up to Ivar either.  And he has that magical snake-eye they made such a big deal of when he was born.  But no Hirst had to have Ivar kill him instead of Hvitserek the Yawnfest.

Ditto to missing Ragnar, Eckbert and especially Athelstan.  The latter served as the conscience of the show and as such kept both Ragnar and Eckbert in check somewhat.  At the very least made them think some before they screwed up.  With no conscience we just have idiots running around playing power games. 

I guess all hope now rests with Alfred for that role but Alfred is a "player" in the game and not an observer as was Athelstan who never commanded armies.  Alfred will play with that power too and so will get his hands far more dirty as a result and won't be able to maintain as much prospective.

A TV series is probably at it's best in the first (raw and exciting and new) and second (deepening of characters and more complex stories emerging) years and still can survive somewhat well with the extra chrome and trim added into the third.  But it is hard to keep it going at those levels after that.  The show runners (runner singular here in Hirst) feel the need to keep topping what has happened before least he be accused of resting on his laurels and he starts getting weird ideas on how to make the show even better (reindeer balls ????). 

I recall reading that Hirst decided at the last minute to have Ivar kill off Sigurd when working on that particular script in a "I wonder how that might work out" moment.  Well it didn't work out and it is always sad when you see that there really aren't that strongly a constructed game plan on these shows given the seat of the pants genre TV is and the renewal stuff always hanging over your head. 

Now I think the History Channel bears some responsibility too because I imagine they are after him to "top" last year's actions as well.  And as it happened to other fictional shows I've watched (the 2004 adult version of Battlestar Galactica and The West Wing come to mind right now), there may be some organic, scientific reasons where you can't break out of this 3 to 4 year pattern as well.

Long way of saying that I expected Vikings to fall off so was kind of prepared for it so will be around for the ride because Vikings In Decline is still better than any other show out there except maybe Mr Robot which I rank about equally as high.  And that show did some missteps in Season 2 though got itself back on track in Season 3 and only does 10 episodes a year so less filler than a 20 episode season that Vikings does now.

Edited January 13, 2018 by green

[Ohwell]

Add me to the list of those who miss Sigurd.  Hvitserk is as dull as a lump of dough.

On another note, I wonder if Bjorn will go through with the marriage to Reindeer Balls, since he asked her father for her hand in marriage.  I don't think he's going to enjoy being shackled every night.  I guess he's obligated now, whether he wants to or not?  

[Stratego]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Add me to the list of those who miss Sigurd.  Hvitserk is as dull as a lump of dough.

On another note, I wonder if Bjorn will go through with the marriage to Reindeer Balls, since he asked her father for her hand in marriage.  I don't think he's going to enjoy being shackled every night.  I guess he's obligated now, whether he wants to or not?  

Shackled? Bjorn is the guy who is wont to assemble a fleet and "Viking"--leaving the "wife" and any children behind. Bjorn learned from his mistake of having a shield-maiden wife.

[Ohwell]

45 minutes ago, Stratego said:

Shackled? Bjorn is the guy who is wont to assemble a fleet and "Viking"--leaving the "wife" and any children behind. Bjorn learned from his mistake of having a shield-maiden wife.

I was referring to him being handcuffed for sex.  I'm not sure he'd like that on a regular basis, but I could be wrong.

[green]

1 hour ago, Stratego said:

Shackled? Bjorn is the guy who is wont to assemble a fleet and "Viking"--leaving the "wife" and any children behind. Bjorn learned from his mistake of having a shield-maiden wife.

Eh, Bjorn learned nothing.  He needs his young self, the one that told off Ragnar messing around with Aslaug, to reappear in a dream vision and give him hell. 

And he is messing with the daughter of the king of the Sami who are now important allies.  He can't just chuck Reindeer Balls aside like the other women he has used and abused or he messes up the whole power equation in Scandinavia. 

Well I guess he can and go flee to Med Vacation 3.  But he best not return from that one if that is the case. 

Also it looks like a major set-up that Guthrum and his fancy dagger Bjorn got off of one of his "meals" in the Sahara may be joining him on that one.  Two references so far foreshadowing Guthrum to going off sailing with non-daddy (he is Jarl Borg's son) step-daddy.  So does that make Halfdan expendable since Bjorn has a new travel companion lined up and ready to go?

[Razzberry]

I quit watching it on a regular basis sometime after they went to Paris.  Don't give a crap about any of 'em any more, to be honest.  God the tatts, the clothes and hairdos have gotten way too stylish, it takes me out of it.   They seem more like cartoon characters, or some boyhood fantasy of Hirst's. 

[Hyrrokkin]

I agree that it sort of went down hill after season 3,although I thought season 3 was average.The best seasons for me are 1 and 2,for the following reasons:
presence of mystical/cultural elements , like Ragnar's visions of Odin, arm rings ceremonies, temples,and better scenes involving sacrifices , the seer, and the blood eagle. It also had more interaction scenes in a family home(such as with Ragnar and the kids when they were younger), which I think was a good aspect since many medias that feature vikings portray them as ruthless warriors only. A wider range of emotions and feelings was portrayed, betrayal, sadness, love, depression, disappointment,hope, curiosity, regret. But, now I feel wrath is the major thing in show. The story lines were simple, but with purpose. A lot of pointless plots ruined the show,like Yidu and the opium story line.It's still an engaging show but it lost some of its magic and mystery.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Hyrrokkin

[Ohwell]

I have loved all the seasons, including this one.  I don't miss Ragnar, Rollo, Athelstan, Ecbert as much as I thought I would, and for that I'm grateful.  As much as I can't stand crazy Ivar, I do like the interactions amongst all the brothers, even including Harald and Halfdan.  The only weak link is Heahmund, but even he doesn't diminish my pleasure in watching what is, by far, my favorite show.  

[isalicat]

"I have loved all the seasons, including this one.  I don't miss Ragnar, Rollo, Athelstan, Ecbert as much as I thought I would, and for that I'm grateful.  As much as I can't stand crazy Ivar, I do like the interactions amongst all the brothers, even including Harald and Halfdan.  The only weak link is Heahmund, but even he doesn't diminish my pleasure in watching what is, by far, my favorite show. "

 

This is me too although I actually love watching crazy Ivar too - the actor is brilliant and the character is unique in history. I do wonder if in "Hirst history" Alfred's mom has a picture in an attic somewhere - she is getting younger and beautiful by the episode.

[green]

9 hours ago, Hyrrokkin said:

I agree that it sort of went down hill after season 3,although I thought season 3 was average.The best seasons for me are 1 and 2,for the following reasons:
presence of mystical/cultural elements , like Ragnar's visions of Odin, arm rings ceremonies, temples,and better scenes involving sacrifices , the seer, and the blood eagle. It also had more interaction scenes in a family home(such as with Ragnar and the kids when they were younger), which I think was a good aspect since many medias that feature vikings portray them as ruthless warriors only. A wider range of emotions and feelings was portrayed, betrayal, sadness, love, depression, disappointment,hope, curiosity, regret. But, now I feel wrath is the major thing in show. The story lines were simple, but with purpose. A lot of pointless plots ruined the show,like Yidu and the opium story line.It's still an engaging show but it lost some of its magic and mystery.

Really well stated.  So much better than what I was trying to get at.  Thanks.

[jackjill89]

16 hours ago, Hyrrokkin said:

I agree that it sort of went down hill after season 3,although I thought season 3 was average.The best seasons for me are 1 and 2,for the following reasons:
presence of mystical/cultural elements , like Ragnar's visions of Odin, arm rings ceremonies, temples,and better scenes involving sacrifices , the seer, and the blood eagle. It also had more interaction scenes in a family home(such as with Ragnar and the kids when they were younger), which I think was a good aspect since many medias that feature vikings portray them as ruthless warriors only. A wider range of emotions and feelings was portrayed, betrayal, sadness, love, depression, disappointment,hope, curiosity, regret. But, now I feel wrath is the major thing in show. The story lines were simple, but with purpose. A lot of pointless plots ruined the show,like Yidu and the opium story line.It's still an engaging show but it lost some of its magic and mystery.

I totally agree. I miss seeing regular ol' Viking life and digging deeper into their beliefs, etc. Some of the rituals creeped me out, but they were fascinating. I loved it when they went to that big ceremony -- didn't like that they were going to sacrifice Athelstan -- but it was so interesting. It's lost a lot of spark.

I honestly couldn't tell any of the brothers, save Ivar, apart from one another. Sigurd's hair was atrocious and I couldn't get past it, which is really stupid, but I can be very shallow like that. Ubbe is the only one that is marginally interesting to me now. Hvitserk can go any time now. Bjorn, Ubbe and Ivar are the only sons of Ragnar we need. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by jackjill89

[Haleth]

I think part of the problem is we don't have a strong central character anymore. The show is split among several characters (Bjorn, Lagertha, Ivar, Alfred, Floki, and to a lesser extent Ubbe, Harald, and others), none of whom we know well enough to care about as much as we did Ragnar. It's still a great show, fascinating history, but not as compelling emotionally as it was. I think we all enjoyed Ragnar's journey from farmer to warrior to king with growing responsibilities and world view. Each of the focus characters still carry some aspect of Ragnar's persona, but they all feel less dimensional.

[raven]

There is a feeling of stretched too thin.  I find Floki's story interesting and Ivar's.  It makes sense for Ivar, even if he is a good tactician, to suffer a loss, especially going up against Bjorn & Ubbe, who have seen him fight.  I'm curious what happens next there. It makes sense that Lagertha should have other allies in the area; that her people should be victorious. 

However, the parley was reaching Walking Dead levels of ridiculousness; where the "bad guy" - if you consider Ivar to be so - is left alive for no other reason than the plot demands it.  I mean, Bjorn was RIGHT THERE.  One swing and Ivar is done; cut off the head of the snake and all that.  You can't tell me Lagertha, who shot an unarmed woman in the back, wouldn't kill Ivar with so easy a chance, parley or no.  They had an equal number of people there if a fight breaks out.  Then again, this is the Lagertha who the show had somehow manage to lose her enemy Harald, who is now aligned with Ivar (sorry, that whole storyline just bugs, how he miraculously escaped from his chains instead of her killing him).

Though I know a lot of people are interested, I am not interested in the Saxons/Alfred or Heahmund, or Harald/Astrid, or Halfdan.  With all these characters, they need lines and things to do, the story gets thinned and stretched out.  TWD has the same problem.

[whoknowswho]

On 2018-01-13 at 7:57 PM, Razzberry said:

I quit watching it on a regular basis sometime after they went to Paris.  Don't give a crap about any of 'em any more, to be honest.  God the tatts, the clothes and hairdos have gotten way too stylish, it takes me out of it.   They seem more like cartoon characters, or some boyhood fantasy of Hirst's. 

I so agree, I lost most of my interest after Paris. The loss of Travis Fimmel, well I knew it would change the entire tact of the show, and not for the better. Where once we had compelling characters, we now have over the top costumes, Game of Thrones type hairdos and costumes, and rather awful actors. The guy who plays Bjorn is painful to watch, there is nothing interesting or compelling watching “Bjorn and Dans excellent adventure”, since the year he went walkabout and fought the bear, I have not enjoyed his character or his story.

I like the crazy that is Ivor the Boneless, but they are suspending my disbelief when suddenly he has the ability to walk and stand. When he was slithering around on the ground, he was simply terrifying. His brothers with the exception of Ubbe, are horrible, horrible actors. Just bad. The rest of the family I no longer care about, Lagertha looks younger than her first season, and their silly rendering of battles, without shields but with GOT banners, they are losing me there, it is far from historic Viking battle tactics. They didn’t use drums, and hinky semmophore banners, they used Berzerkers! Bigger is not necessarily better, think about that first season or two, the magic and simplicity of the story and the richness of the characters. That is now missing. And I miss it. Terribly.

I watch for Ivor, because he is a really good actor, but the rest of the cast, I could care less about. 

[Orens88]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:33 PM, Son of the Norse said:

"Was not impressed with the Sami's gorilla/cowards attack" 

I'm not sure how or why you would refer to the Sami's "Guerilla" technique as cowardly.  Did Ivar not convince Bjorn to use tactics similar to this in the battle against Aethelwulf near Repton?