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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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arjumand

arjumand

What do you guys think about Wentworth Miller in this role? I have warm feelings for the guy from when Prison Break was good, but I saw that scene of Snart with his younger self on Youtube and, to put it kindly, I was not impressed.

 

Wentworth Miller is the only part of the show worth watching right now - I am so very bored with Legends of Tomorrow. The part of Firestorm who isn't Victor Garber is getting on my last nerve, HawkLady is the worst, Ray is urgh, and Arthur Darvill's character is annoying for me because it's becoming clear that he's very stupid. Wait, I tell a lie - I like Heat Wave too.

 

As for Sara Lance - eh. I don't want to spoil it for anyone watching, but in episode 4 which hasn't aired in the US yet, I think,

the payoff for the manufactured bloodlust they've been giving her has finally come to fruition - she needs to have something in common with HawkBoreLady to help her train and control the crazy HawkGoddess (huh?) within, so that we, the viewing audience, will not say: "It's because they both have ladyparts, right? Come on, admit it."

 

So I feel I've been let down. Though Wentworth Miller. MMMMmmm. Never thought he'd be my main reason. I confess, I fast-forwarded through the last part of the episode which didn't feature him. In the scene with his younger self he had to act a bit against character - in the rest of the episode (and show) he's different.

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bijoux

bijoux

 

So I feel I've been let down. Though Wentworth Miller. MMMMmmm. Never thought he'd be my main reason. I confess, I fast-forwarded through the last part of the episode which didn't feature him. In the scene with his younger self he had to act a bit against character - in the rest of the episode (and show) he's different.

What I'm wondering about is if his acting is different. I'm predisposed to liking the guy, but the acting was painful in that scene.
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statsgirl

statsgirl

I just watched LoT 104 [thanks, Canadia], and I'm actually impressed at how they're managing to use all the 483 trillion characters in some sort of ordered and planned and useful manner. Phil Klemmer might have actual superpowers.

I'd been wondering how even on episodes penned by MG they use all of the characters well and usefully.  So Phil Klemmer is the answer?

 

(I could have sworn I posted here last night and now it's gone. Has that happened to anyone else?)

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

The CW seems to really want Ray/Atom to succeed, but he still doesn't seem to be catching on with fans. I posted this article in the LoT forum - note that TV.com's top 3 are Leonard, Mick and Sara...

 

DC's Legends of Tomorrow: Ranking the Heroes and Villains From Best to Worst
By Kaitlin Thomas  2 hours ago
http://www.tv.com/shows/dcs-legends-of-tomorrow/community/post/dc-legends-of-tomorrow-best-worst-characters-the-cw-145452552786/

Edited by tv echo
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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I wouldn't call that a failure of Ray - I mean the only character they rated above him that I would change is Heatwave and I love how they are writing Ray on LoT.   For me it would be Cold and Sara tied for first, then Stein, and then Ray/Rip. But that ranking in no way implies that I dislike any of those characters.  I'm even pretty ok with Jax, Heatwave, and Kendra though they would rate at the bottom of my list.

Edited by nksarmi
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Proteus

Proteus

What do you guys think about Wentworth Miller in this role? I have warm feelings for the guy from when Prison Break was good, but I saw that scene of Snart with his younger self on Youtube and, to put it kindly, I was not impressed.

I thought that was one of the best scenes of LOT so far and that WM did great with it.

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Yeah, I thought it was a great scene too.

To be honest, I've had a bit of a challenge with WM's portrayal of Cold. I never watched Prison Break, so I've never been able to tell if that cheesy exaggerated way he talks is something he's put on for the character, or is the way he normally acts. But I've gotten used to it, and I enjoy the character otherwise. But it seemed like he really toned it down in that scene, and that made it more powerful, for me anyway.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I'd been wondering how even on episodes penned by MG they use all of the characters well and usefully. So Phil Klemmer is the answer?

I don't think there's an evenness in screentime, or even in importance to the narrative at hand. Some characters are just more important than others, depending on A-plot and B-plot [and C-plot if applied]. But I'm actually impressed [and I really didn't think I would be] that they're managing to fit everyone into narrative roles for each different mission/each different after school special lesson of the week.

I don't expect any kind of depth, or even character development from this show. I just wanna be entertained and have fun with the wacky adventures of no-name sub-superheroes. So far, I'm getting it.

Edited by dtissagirl
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Delphi

Delphi

Just give it to a different production company, for the love of the gods of Kobol.

Hell, give it to Bryan Q. Miller. He just wrote the Justice League vs. Teen Titans animated movie.

Oh, I would love Miller to wrote for it! Then again, I wouldn't be opposed to it being connected to the Flarrowverse.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Oh, I would love Miller to wrote for it! Then again, I wouldn't be opposed to it being connected to the Flarrowverse.

I'm scared shitless of what this guys would do to Babs and Starfire. :/

Otoh, I KNOW BQM can write Babs perfectly, because he already did it on Batgirl.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I just think the CW needs to be careful about becoming a DC only Network. They already have 4 DC shows, if they add Titans that's 50% of their schedule comprised of DC.

Dawn O nearly destroyed CW focusing only on one demographic. I'd hate to see Mark Pedowitz fall into the same hole.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

CW could decide to run Titans as a short season paired with Legends of Tomorrow.  I actually think that would be rather awesome.  I don't actually need the same people to run Titans but it would be really nice if they were allowed to connect the shows even a little.  I imagine the show's cast might get smaller if CW ran it though.

 

Regarding the Flash / Supergirl cross-over - I now wonder if we are going to meet Powergirl.  I was just posting this in the Supergirl forum - New 52's World's Finest is a comic book series dedicated to Powergirl and Huntress (Helena Wayne - not our Huntress) from Earth 2 while they are on Earth 1.

Edited by nksarmi
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BunsenBurner

BunsenBurner

(edited)

Just finished watching Supergirl, this will be my last show. It felt like I was watching a previous episode of the Flash. She works for Catco and has her side job at the DEO whereas he has his at the Police Station and his side job at Star Labs. She flies and he runs fast. The entire story line is the Flash in reverse sex. The weepy star and co-star, the putting the villain in a special area they can't get out of or go to the bathroom etc.. I don't need to watch the same episode twice it's boring and terribly lazy writing on the writers and EPs part. 

 

I have my DVR at 100% free and only have a few shows besides Arrow that I will record. It's a shame because if they want to make the DC comics into good shows then they shouldn't be using the same writers and EPs on the shows, it leads to too much repetition and their continuity sucks.

 

Arrow is the only show I will be recording and watching on the CW. Not sure I will make it to the end of the season.

Edited by BunsenBurner
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Lokiberry

Lokiberry

Back to Snart for a minute -  I LOVE him.  Yes, he chews the scenery, but it's just SO good. I like him and Ray together, but I ship Cold with Barry lol.  But if Snart keeps it up with the way he says Raymond, I might change my mind.

I ship Coldflash, and ColdAtom. Also, Cold Hunter, Captain Canary, and Canary Hunter. I'm not usually like this; I never multiship, but it's like a huge smorgasbord has been laid out, and I just want some of everything.

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

What do you guys think about Wentworth Miller in this role? I have warm feelings for the guy from when Prison Break was good, but I saw that scene of Snart with his younger self on Youtube and, to put it kindly, I was not impressed.

 

My very biased opinion is that Wentworth is pretty great as Snart. I thought the scene with the boy and his Dad in the past was pretty good. Kid actor wasn't great and it wasn't Emmy-worthy (hah!) but Wentworth was okay. Then again, like I said, very biased. I've liked Wentworth since BtVS, Popular, and Joan of Arcadia. I even watched the first few episodes of Dinotopia for him. He's pretty much my main reason for DVR-ing LoT. Him, Sara, and Heatwave have become my faves. The rest of the group have their moments, I guess.

 

To be honest, I've had a bit of a challenge with WM's portrayal of Cold. I never watched Prison Break, so I've never been able to tell if that cheesy exaggerated way he talks is something he's put on for the character, or is the way he normally acts.

 

Wentworth's Prison Break character was actually kinda shy and soft-spoken. Not as snarky and confident as Snart. But the smirky, too-smart-for-you looks, and side-eye acting is almost the same. Heh. Wentworth's take on Snart actually reminds me a lot of his role on Popular as Adam Rothschild-Ryan.

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Wentworth's Prison Break character was actually kinda shy and soft-spoken. Not as snarky and confident as Snart. But the smirky, too-smart-for-you looks, and side-eye acting is almost the same. Heh. Wentworth's take on Snart actually reminds me a lot of his role on Popular as Adam Rothschild-Ryan.

 

Man, I loved Popular. I was also bummed when Joan of Arcadia was canceled right after Wentworth appeared. WM is one of the few things I like about LOT aside from CL even if he does play it so over the top.

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Serena

Serena

Maybe it would work if they kept it only as a 13 episode series that switched out with LoT but I don't see how they would put it on the schedule full time.

This would be a smart solution. But still, sooooo many superhero shows. As long as they don't put it in place of my beloved CEG, I'm happy.

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kismet

kismet

I can't imagine Pedowitz signing on for another DC comic show. He seems to really want diversity in the CW's programming. In an interview (which I can't find now), striving for variety in programming was one of the reasons he passed on Supergirl. Right now they do have a little bit of everything from comics to niche comedies.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Also, the CW shows winning major awards (Golden Globes, Critics Choice) are shows like Jane the Virgin and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - you know, the shows aimed at the CW's 'female demo', as opposed to Pedowitz's prized 'male demo'.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Interesting...

 

THE BIGGEST SUPERHERO FILMS THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, PART 1
Tom Bondurant, Contributing Writer
Sun, January 31st, 2016 at 7:58am PST | Updated: February 7th, 2016 at 8:12am
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/the-biggest-superhero-films-didnt-happen-part-1

 

THE BIGGEST SUPERHERO FILMS THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN, PART 2
Tom Bondurant, Contributing Writer
Sun, February 7th, 2016 at 8:09am PST | Updated: February 7th, 2016 at 8:10am
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/the-biggest-superhero-films-didnt-happen-part-2

GREEN ARROW '08

Justin Marks' "Green Arrow: Escape From Supermax" script is similar to Andrew Kevin Walker's "Batman vs. Superman" and "Justice League: Mortal" in that it introduces our hero well into his costumed career. From there it sends Green Arrow to the lowest point of that career, as he's framed for murder, exposed as Oliver Queen, and sent to supervillain prison. There he has to break out and clear his name with the help of some of the bad guys he put away. It's not a bad setup, and the idea of a computer-controlled structure which essentially reorganizes itself every night sounds like a challenge big enough for a longtime Justice Leaguer. The prospect of tying this into a larger DC Universe -- by using other characters' villains, like the Pied Piper, Icicle and Tattooed Man -- was probably also enticing.
 

In execution, though, Marks' script pays too much attention to those concerns and not enough to its headliner. The Green Arrow of 2008 wasn't Stephen Amell's grim, driven urban avenger, just an aging crimefighter famous for left-wing politics and distinctive facial hair. "Supermax's" Ollie has those, but little of the swashbuckling style that distinguished Green Arrow from Batman. Indeed, it wouldn't take much to turn "Supermax" into a Batman-in-prison script. There are the requisite twists, turns and strange bedfellows, but it all ends up about like you'd expect. Besides, Warner Bros. has embraced the main elements of "Supermax" in more familiar ways, both with the "Arrow" series and the upcoming "Suicide Squad" film. All in all, "Supermax" has some neat ideas but can't quite justify its own existence.

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

MG interview about the AoS comics that he's writing...

 

AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D. Is 'MISSION IMPOSSIBLE' In The Marvel U
by George Marston 08 February 2016 Time: 06:30 PM ET
http://www.newsarama.com/27883-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-is-mission-impossible-set-in-the-marvel-universe.html

 

AoS #1

Agents-of-SHIELD-1-Cover-17ff7.jpg

http://www.comicbookresources.com/comic-previews/agents-of-shield-1-marvel-comics-2016

 

AoS #2

SHIELD2016002-DC11-1af28.jpg

http://www.comicbookresources.com/comic-previews/agents-shield-2-marvel-comics-2016

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

Also, the CW shows winning major awards (Golden Globes, Critics Choice) are shows like Jane the Virgin and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - you know, the shows aimed at the CW's 'female demo', as opposed to Pedowitz's prized 'male demo'.

Yet they suck in ratings. But that's why it's important to have diversity.

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kismet

kismet

Also, the CW shows winning major awards (Golden Globes, Critics Choice) are shows like Jane the Virgin and Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - you know, the shows aimed at the CW's 'female demo', as opposed to Pedowitz's prized 'male demo'.

True. So far, I do like how Pedowitz in running the CW overall from a show basis. He may want to cater to a certain demo for financial reasons. However, he sticks up for shows he believes in like JtV & CEG. Even with their awards, I'm sure JtV & CEG would be cut from other networks if one looked at just the traditional data like ratings, Pedowitz seems to look beyond the traditional. I also appreciate that he listens to the fans & keeps on other shows that would be cut on other networks. Or respects fans/shows enough to give fan fav shows a closure season or limited run.  I also enjoy his thoughts of all year round broadcasting.

 

Berlanti & Co have been a good investment for his network, but he passed hard on two of their shows until they could produce an idea that was appealing to him & the network. He didn't just give them a blank check to produce any random new show. For me that indicates he is going beyond just catering to certain demos. I like Supergirl, but it's basically the FLASH with a female lead & a worn-out plotline. It's not a bad show, but it's very elementary in its overall story-telling. And the ATOM, would probably have been like ARROW except without any of the elements that make a watchable show. I don't even think moving FS over to the ATOM would have made viewers turn in. LoT does have a lot of potential & appeal between the team-ups, time-travel & fan-fav casts. We will see how it does after this season, but at least its inception seemed far more interesting than the other 2 shows.

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nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

It's odd.  I've seen people compare Supergirl to Flash twice now and I don't really see it. While Supergirl is close to Flash in that it's on the "lighter" end of the spectrum - I don't see that much in common between the two other than they are comic book type shows.

 

-Supergirl plays with the "mother" roles in Kara's life, but not to the intensity and focus that Flash does with Barry's multiple father figures.

-Supergirl has a real sibling relationship between Kara and Alex - better than anything I've seen on Flash or Arrow (even between Oliver and Thea).

-Supergirl addressed one crush and has - at least - temporarily dismissed it.

-I feel like Supergirl has abandoned the love triangle - I hope I'm right.

-Supergirl's morally grey character really is freaking morally grey.  At this point, Maxwell Lord is not a villain in disguise, pretending that his evil is really some kind of good. He fills the "enemy of my enemy" plot better than any character I think I've seen on the CW.

-The DEO on Supergirl is unlike anything I've seen on Flash or Arrow (Argus really doesn't count).

-Cat Grant and Kara's work life seems more prominent in the show than Oliver's or Barry's has ever been.

-The villain of the week plots are a staple of these types of shows period (from Buffy to Charmed). And it seems to me they are mostly borrowing from Superman lore. 

-And at this point, I don't think Supergirl is going to face nearly the fan criticisms of how it uses women or people of color the way Flash does anytime soon.

Edited by nksarmi
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nksarmi

nksarmi

Ok Flash just showed a clip of Supergirl flying on their way from Earth 1 to Earth 2, so I think that confirms that the Supes are on a different Earth.  But everyone totally gets bonus points if Kara appears on Flash at some point going by the Powergirl title.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

(edited)

This episode was 

ah-mah-zing_zpseb1f7ca5.gif

 

Everyone did a good job of playing their alter egos, Iris was written as the HBIC she should be written as for E1, like seriously, she was da bomb. It's great that she and Barry didn't have to jump through hoops and get to be married on E2. Killer Frost/Deadstorm were really enjoyable as well but can they stop killing him off? Robbie isn't that busy that they have to kill him off every time he appears. And I wish they would showcase their powers in more then fireballs and icicle blasts. E2 Cisco was also a BOSS...until Zoom appeared. Those CC villains would be so better off with Zoom not running the place. 

 

We get another look into the multi-verse: Supergirl, another Arrow, Legion of Superheroes, the original Flash series which was also really cool. I wish Arrow got to explore a different Earth.

Edited by Primal Slayer
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