Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Trini]

Jax is basically Jason Rusch by renamed because they already used his name in the show, yeah? Does that really count?

 

I would have said so before, but they changed his backstory, too. But... kinda.

I wonder, why didn't they just bring the actor that played Jason back?

 

Been wondering that myself. They could have easily re-casted the actor since he had only one short appearance.

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah I never got why create a brand new character when you already have one that fits the mold. It was a waste of Ronnie and most definitely a waste of showing us 2 seconds of Jason. They recast Linda after the initial pilot so they cant use that reason.

[GreatAtBoats]

Jefferson Jackson is actually an old Firestorm supporting character, a high school friend of Ronnie's.

[Primal Slayer]

It's basically a way for them to have their cake and it to like they did with Felicity. Take a small time character and mold them into something bigger which is fine with me for the most part but still rather them to have used 2 of the established characters connected with Firestorm.

[Trini]

On the other hand, maybe they just wanted a bigger clash of personalities for the spin-off, since Jason Raush is also a scientist.

 

 

I don't think there's any way that Sara gets shortchanged. Especially with all the focus she is getting in promos.

 

Well, she'll definitely get action scenes.

[Sakura12]

Considering they cast a woman love interest for Sara for an episode, I'd say she gets more than just fighting action focus.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Sakura12

[chaos is welcome]

Not that I am advocating a flashback platform in any way. Shape, or form, but man I still want for nyssa/sara loa flashbacks.

Which makes me bitter about how they tricked us about sara flashbacks in s3

Edit bc Autocorrect and gugie may be related :p

Edited December 29, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[Primal Slayer]

If there are flashbacks in this series, at least it will be important flashbacks that aren't broken up into little 1 minute segments.

[AyChihuahua]

Not that I am advocating a flashback platform in any way. Shape, i.e. gotten, but man I still want for nyssa/sara loa flashbacks.

Which makes me bitter about how they tricked us about sara flashbacks in s3

That is an excellent example of what a total dick Guggie is. Strongly imply you're giving the audience what they want. Make sure the audience is aware all the parts for what they want are in place. Talk up how excited you are about it. Then kill the character the audience wants in a horrible disrespectful way, use her voice and another beloved character to talk up a character a lot of the audience strongly dislikes, and berate the audience for not understanding your amazing artistic vision.

 

I mean seriously, what a dick. Everything wrong with Arrow can pretty much be laid at his door. 

[Trini]

If there are flashbacks in this series, at least it will be important flashbacks that aren't broken up into little 1 minute segments.

 

Flashbacks in a time traveling show? Oh boy... 

[BkWurm1]

Flashbacks in a time traveling show? Oh boy... 

Ha!  They could do flash forwards and flashbacks at the same time. 

[Chaser]

Timey-Wimey

[way2interested]

Ha!  They could do flash forwards and flashbacks at the same time. 

Ngl, if they don't at least travel to important times in their own histories, I feel like they've wasted their own storyline. I would love at least one episode where Ray and Sara reflect on the possibility of going back in time and stopping the one bad thing in their lives that caused everything to happen in their lives. Of course, they'd have to eventually figure out something along the lines of "What's happened happened blah blah blah," but I'd still love to see it. The promo already showed that it looks like Snart is going to see his younger self, so I wonder if they are going to do that for all of the characters as well.

[chaos is welcome]

Ngl, if they don't at least travel to important times in their own histories, I feel like they've wasted their own storyline. I would love at least one episode where Ray and Sara reflect on the possibility of going back in time and stopping the one bad thing in their lives that caused everything to happen in their lives. Of course, they'd have to eventually figure out something along the lines of "What's happened happened blah blah blah," but I'd still love to see it. The promo already showed that it looks like Snart is going to see his younger self, so I wonder if they are going to do that for all of the characters as well.

Oh man, all the potential time lines make me tired all ready.

[BkWurm1]

Oh man, all the potential time lines make me tired all ready.

I cut my teeth on Dr. Who.  The more convoluted the better.  Bring.  It. On.  :D

[kismet]

Ngl, if they don't at least travel to important times in their own histories, I feel like they've wasted their own storyline. I would love at least one episode where Ray and Sara reflect on the possibility of going back in time and stopping the one bad thing in their lives that caused everything to happen in their lives. Of course, they'd have to eventually figure out something along the lines of "What's happened happened blah blah blah," but I'd still love to see it. The promo already showed that it looks like Snart is going to see his younger self, so I wonder if they are going to do that for all of the characters as well.

I feel like they could do that with every character but Sara. Sara's really bad thing is directly related to OQ & how he began the Arrow. So her not getting on the Gambit could potentially unravel the whole Flarrowverse. It might be interesting to see what would happen. I guess they could still put OQ with another random girl on the boat. But it gets a little complicated.

I would love to see SLs time in LoA with Nyssa, so whether that is flashbacks or visiting the past like a Christmas Carol. Somehow I want them to do it. But I definitely don't want SL to undue her worst decision, because for me that is getting on the Gambit, everything else is the writers taking the cheap way out of the story. And if she undoes getting on the Gambit than everything on Arrow essentially is at risk and then I know it just a wasted episode because there is no way they are undoing what has happened on ARROW.

[way2interested]

I feel like they could do that with every character but Sara. Sara's really bad thing is directly related to OQ & how he began the Arrow. So her not getting on the Gambit could potentially unravel the whole Flarrowverse. It might be interesting to see what would happen. I guess they could still put OQ with another random girl on the boat. But it gets a little complicated.

I would love to see SLs time in LoA with Nyssa, so whether that is flashbacks or visiting the past like a Christmas Carol. Somehow I want them to do it. But I definitely don't want SL to undue her worst decision, because for me that is getting on the Gambit, everything else is the writers taking the cheap way out of the story. And if she undoes getting on the Gambit than everything on Arrow essentially is at risk and then I know it just a wasted episode because there is no way they are undoing what has happened on ARROW.

Honestly, as much as I was thinking it, and they probably won't do this, but I wonder if they would go dark and make Sara just want to make sure that the LOA don't find her after the end of the s2 flashback or make it so that her body is missing so Laurel and Thea don't resurrect her in the first place, especially if she feels cut off from Nyssa for coming back to life. That way she wouldn't do that much damage except erasing herself from the timeline (of course, that still changes everything, but the logic is still pretty self-damning).

 

I agree that they wouldn't want to go too much into detail for Sara in terms of rewriting history, since it's so wrapped up in the entire Arrow storyline, but gosh if they could, my dream for an It's A Wonderful Life scenario for this universe.

[kismet]

I really dislike "It's a wonderful life", always have. And if Sara had a scenario like George Bailey, I can't imagine her coming to the same conclusion as GB that the world is better because she is in it. I can imagine it being far darker and her thinking everyone is better off without her and that would be so depressing to watch.

Despite the fact, I cry at a wonderful life, I still find it a very depressing movie every holiday season. I like a Christmas Carol scenario insteaf because she can learn from her past mistakes and see how bad the future is without her in it and then return to the present with a new and more positive zeal for living. It's a far more uplifting scenario for me.

[BkWurm1]

I don't entirely understand why "It's a Wonderful Life" is treated as a Christmas movie since it could have been Arbor Day for all it affects the plot line.  It's depressing in as much as he never sees the world and didn't live out his dreams but of course the whole point to the movie was that he discovered his actual life was more fulfilling than any of his unrealized dreams.  Plus dude isn't that old.  Send the kids to Ma Baily's house for few weeks and go on vacation to Europe .  His brother owes him. 

[kismet]

Poor Sara. She gets to travel the world and through time. But she never really got to live out any of her dreams then and now her life really isn't even her own. So yeah, it just be depressing upon depressing.

[BkWurm1]

Poor Sara. She gets to travel the world and through time. But she never really got to live out any of her dreams then and now her life really isn't even her own. So yeah, it just be depressing upon depressing.

I think though that her time with LoT is supposed to be her taking control of her life and finding herself and new dreams along the way.  I really don't see how a "It's a Wonderful Life" scenario would be much different in effect than a "Christmas Carol".  In both cases she would see all the possibilities and good still in front of her. 

 

What makes  a Wonderful Life scenario better IMO is that she doesn't have to change her ways to feel better about her life.  She gets to see all the good she has already contributed to the world. 

[kismet]

I guess it all depends on how excited she is to be joining the LoT Crew because she wants to be part of it. She might feel like she has no choice but to join. And then frankly I want her to see the positive potential of her future, as opposed to her past or present which seem kinda sucky or bleak.

[chaos is welcome]

With any of these hero's though, if they could undo any big thing, would it be a selfish thing? And by that I mean, just their own lives/paths. Barry almost used tt to save his mom, but even then considers the consequences. (Won't discuss the parallel of resurrecting sara after a year without thinking of the consequences, but makes you go hm). It seems like if these characters are going to have chances to undo wrongs, it would be undoing deaths of loved ones. That seems to be the thing they all want most, more than undoing their own damage. Oliver and thea, front and center. Same of oliver had an opportunity to save moira. Dig and Andy. The interesting thing with Sara is that her first death caused so much pain for her family, and yet was basically essential to everyone becoming who they are. It's a really, really interesting idea, but probably way to complicated for them ever to address in show.

Now, If either lance is in the grave, then I totally could see them giving a mission to sara that makes her be in the same orbit as now-dead lived one and have to deal with the conflict of that. (But whatever you do sara, don't ask mom for advice. Bc her advice is terrible.)

Kinda makes me think of back to the future lol.

Edited December 29, 2015 by chaos is welcome

[kismet]

I think though that her time with LoT is supposed to be her taking control of her life and finding herself and new dreams along the way. I really don't see how a "It's a Wonderful Life" scenario would be much different in effect than a "Christmas Carol". In both cases she would see all the possibilities and good still in front of her.

What makes a Wonderful Life scenario better IMO is that she doesn't have to change her ways to feel better about her life. She gets to see all the good she has already contributed to the world.

I always interpreted George Bailey as just accepting his life as is. I never saw it as a transformative movie, just more George just doing what he usually does and being the quality man that he was and accepting what everyone told him about himself. SL needs a transformative movie trope to help accept her past and move fwd with her future.

But we're stumbling too far off point at this point. :)

[BkWurm1]

always interpreted George Bailey as just accepting his life as is. I never saw it as a transformative movie, just more George just doing what he usually does and being the quality man that he was and accepting what everyone told him about himself.

 

If that was the case,  that would be depressing.  Almost as depressing as the fate worse than death that awaited Mary had George not been there to marry her...SPINSTERHOOD!!!  It will never not crack me up that George's tipping point that sends him begging and pleading to God to let him live again is seeing Mary as an unmarried Librarian.  

 

The interesting thing with Sara is that her first death caused so much pain for her family, and yet was basically essential to everyone becoming who they are. It's a really, really interesting idea, but probably way to complicated for them ever to address in show.

 

I can't see Sara not wanting to tinker with her past.  Plus, she might think that had she not ran off with Oliver, then Oliver would still have become the Arrow since he was off on that trip one way or the other.  She could think the only change would be positive like Shado not dying and Slade not going all revenge must be mine and Malcolm using her death to force Oliver to fight Ra's.  It would be wonderful stuff to play with but they would almost have to save something like that for an Arrow crossover for it to have enough weight and meaning to the audience. 

 

And now that I've thought of it I'm going to be bummed if Arrow and Flash somewhere down the line don't get their own individual crossovers where time travel isn't a do over but a "what would have happened if" scenario.  They could do a Ronnie doesn't die variation or a Snart kills his abusive father way earlier or something for Flash.

 

Chances are better that if Sara does try to fix something from her past it will be something smaller that we'd never known about. 

Edited December 29, 2015 by BkWurm1

[KirkB]

Once he finds out time travel is an actual thing, I would be surprised if the first thing Ray asks Rip isn't whether he can go and save his wife. Though doing so would be a significant alteration to the timeline, since the death of his wife is what inspired him to become the Atom. With her alive there would be no reason for him to be a superhero and no reason for him to be on the team.

 

Similarly, Sara might contemplate her and Oliver not getting shipwrecked. Or her not being found by the LoA. Or at least not dying. But they can't change the first two without altering the timeline too much. They need fantasy island for Oliver to become the Green Arrow and the LoA for Sara to become the Canary. So while I imagine this would be brought up I totally get why it can't be changed.

 

Come to think of it, I'll be curious to see what the rules for time travel are in LoT. On the Flash everyone freaks out about Barry altering the timelines but except for getting rid of Thawne he doesn't seem to have changed much. The LoT gang on the other hand are going to be bouncing all over the time stream, presumably causing all kinds of ripples. Should be interesting.

[Sakura12]

I'd rather Sara not do something for herself, instead I would like it if Sara talked to or makes it impossible for Sin's father to get on the plane that would fly over Lian Yu. She would erase herself from meeting Sin, but Sin would not be an orphan living on the streets. And it could explain why Sara doesn't go visit her with Bex being on another show. 

[chaos is welcome]

I miss Sin. That was such a crappy dropped story line. The whole Scooby gang of 2a was so fun. I never would have guessed 2 of the 3 players would be off the show by s4. To much to hope sin makes an appearance? Is she still filming for mtv?

[jay741982]

I miss Sin. That was such a crappy dropped story line. The whole Scooby gang of 2a was so fun. I never would have guessed 2 of the 3 players would be off the show by s4. To much to hope sin makes an appearance? Is she still filming for mtv?

She is! She's a big part of Scream the TV Show

[Morrigan2575]

I posted this on the LoT Media Thread. Looks like the CW is doing a special screening on 1/19.

THE CW GIVES VIEWERS AN EXCLUSIVE LOOK ACROSS DC COMICS WITH TWO ALL-NEW SPECIALS, “DC’S LEGENDS OF TOMORROW: THEIR TIME IS NOW” AND “DC FILMS PRESENTS: DAWN OF THE JUSTICE LEAGUE,” PREMIERING TUESDAY, JAN. 19

The World Premiere of the New Trailer for “Suicide Squad” to Debut During “Dawn of the Justice League” Special

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/12/the-cw-schedules-legends-of-tomorrow.html?m=1

[Trini]

Oh, did iZombie get bumped?

[Morrigan2575]

Apparently iZombie comes back on 1/12 and then is on break for 1/19. I'm seeing comments that iZombie is on 1/12, then off again until 2/2 which seems crazy but you never know

[wonderwall]

This guy got an advance screening of LoT and here's what he had to say:
 

Chris E. Hayner ‏@ChrisHayner
My #LegendsOfTomorrow thoughts: It's good. Could be great. Remains to be seen if it will be, though. Captain Cold/Heat Wave/Canary shine.

#LegendsOfTomorrow -- It's bigger in scope than we've seen from other DCTV shows. I like the goals it sets, now they need to reach them.

re #LegendsOfTomorrow - Not surprisingly, the most intriguing characters are the ones we already know well.

I think the Hawks are a weak point in the whole thing and I'm waiting to care about Rip.

Edited December 30, 2015 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

Interesting, Heatwave seems like an after thought in most of the promos, surprised to see him getting singled out. As of now I fully expect to love Canary, Cold and Rip Hunter. Will be interesting to see if I feel the same way after watching 101/102

[KirkB]

Sara was the main reason I was planning to watch the show. Cold has become the second. Rip Hunter I wouldn't care about if he wasn't being played by Arthur Darvill, but IMO Rory was the best thing about that period in Dr. Who so he's a plus too. The Hawks were the weakest part of the crossover and I have no reason to think they're going to be any better on LoT. I honestly don't care about Atom or Firestorm. Heatwave, I could go either way.

Edited December 31, 2015 by KirkB

[tv echo]

This is a good read (except for the Felicity diss) -- all of The CW's TV superhero shows are mentioned...

 

Best of 2015: Women in TV, Film, Comics, Games & More
by Carly Lane   Thursday, December 31st 2015 at 12:30 pm
http://www.themarysue.com/best-of-2015-women-in-tv-film-comics-games-more/

[kismet]

The dig to Felicity seemed a little unnecessary. It's hard to take articles or blogs seriously when they make their personal opinion blatantly part of the argument. In one section, you are raving about the Bechdel test and it being a good year for women and then you spend time tearing other women down in the same piece. It kinda seem to against your message. I'm not saying it all needs to be a kumbaya moment, but there is no need to add snarky remarks and disses if you want me to take your writing seriously.

[lemotomato]

This is a good read (except for the Felicity diss) -- all of The CW's TV superhero shows are mentioned...

 

Best of 2015: Women in TV, Film, Comics, Games & More

by Carly Lane   Thursday, December 31st 2015 at 12:30 pm

http://www.themarysue.com/best-of-2015-women-in-tv-film-comics-games-more/

All the characters mention in the comics-to-tv section are women that can fight, so she could've not mentioned Felicity at all, except she probably knew throwing in the cheap shot would get page hits.

[Ann Mack]

 

https://twitter.com/candicekp/status/683080146778066944

 

Awesome photo of Candice Patton. This woman is beautiful and so underused on Flash IMO!

[tv echo]

Interesting...

 

2015 round of Marvel vs. DC Comics has a clear winner (Spoiler: It’s not DC)
BY ANDREW A. SMITH, TRIBUNE NEWS SERVICE AT 09:01 AM ON JAN 1, 2016
http://zap2it.com/2016/01/marvel-beats-dc-comics-in-2015/

[BkWurm1]

The arguements for Marvel winning the TV portion of the battle was pretty weak. They list five DC shows, call them all successful and also bring up the upcoming LoT but then mention that Marvel had two shows well received by the critics and gave the battle to Marvel.

[Morrigan2575]

Even if you ignore TV, Marvel beats DC in Movies and Comics (on a monthly basis).

[way2interested]

The arguements for Marvel winning the TV portion of the battle was pretty weak. They list five DC shows, call them all successful and also bring up the upcoming LoT but then mention that Marvel had two shows well received by the critics and gave the battle to Marvel.

 

Not to mention the fact that it didn't even mention AoS or Agent Carter. They aren't shining stars on the Marvel TV record, but if you're going to mention all of the DC shows and that Constantine was cancelled, talk about the two network shows that Marvel actually has. 

[Trini]

This had to be inspired by the crossover, right?

 

http://textsfromsuperheroes.com/post/136224391374/newyears

 

:-D

Edited January 3, 2016 by Trini

[tv echo]

Talks about all the DC and Marvel superhero tv shows...

 

Why 2015 Was The Year of Superhero TV
By Amanda Joyce Jan 03, 2016 10:30 AM
http://www.themovienetwork.com/article/why-2015-was-year-superhero-tv

[fruit snacks]

This post was edited bc Im an idiot who thought it was a reveal lol sorry. Hi I'm obviously new :)

Edited January 3, 2016 by fruit snacks

[Morrigan2575]

Hi. Welcome to the board. I Saw this note at the top of the page on the link you provided.

NOTE: Guesses in italics are only guesses;

guesses in RED are a link to the solution or substantial clues.

For 326, it's a guess not a reveal. Edited January 3, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Lol no that doesn't make sense. Katie isn't starring in Legends, and as far as we know Vixen is for now only a one-episode guest star. I think someone (calliope?) got it right. This person heard a few things about the show (a Canary going to Legends, Felicity possibly getting killing off in the MSF, Vixen coming on), and made up the rest, and didn't even bother to double check what they'd heard.

ETA: ah, they were only guesses. Well still. I still think the whole thing is mostly made up, with a few "almost facts" mixed in to make it seem like it should be legit.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Starfish35

[tarotx]

Well I guess if Lance is the one who dies, I can see Laurel and Sara having some bonding time on the later episodes of legends. But no way this is a true blind item. It's anti-KC fan fiction. And Vixen is not a new love interest. She's beautiful but I just can't see her being brought on for longer than that one episode or two. If anything I see her for a potential magic centric season 2 of Legends (going with the Constantine rumor). 

[fruit snacks]

Welcome to the board. If you follow the link you provided you'd see this note at the top of the page

For 326, it's a guess not a reveal.

Lol omg I didn't even bother to read the note on the top of the page :( I got so caught up on all the gossip. The post has been edited. Edited January 3, 2016 by fruit snacks