Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Sakura12]

One thing Gotham does get right are the villains. I love their version of the Penguin and the Riddler, even their Mr. Freeze was better than whatever Arnold was trying to do. I also love Jerome whether he is or isn't the Joker. I have hope they can do right by Ra's al Ghul, going with a non-white actor is helping them already. 

[statsgirl]

I was really hoping for Alexander Siddiq or Oded Fehr but I wonder if they were too expensive for Arrow. That was the season they spent all that money on Ray's Atom suit, Brandon Routh and the special effects.

Edited March 3, 2017 by statsgirl

[SmallScreenDiva]

I saw that news about Ra's in Gotham and I thought "if only." Then I remembered how Arrow totally screwed up Ra's and now I'm thankful Siddiq or Fehr didn't have to be subjected to that.

[Velocity23]

Quote

“Star-Crossed” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

TERI HATCHER (“DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES,” “LOIS & CLARK: THE NEW ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN”) AND KEVIN SORBO (“HERCULES”) GUEST STAR; DARREN CRISS (“GLEE”) MAKES HIS DEBUT AS THE MUSIC MEISTER – A new villain (guest star Teri Hatcher) comes to National City, putting Supergirl (Melissa Benoist) on high alert. Meanwhile, Winn’s (Jeremy Jordan) girlfriend, Lyra (guest star Tamzin Merchant), gets Winn in trouble with the law. Maggie (guest star Floriana Lima) attempts to help Winn but old loyalties get in the way. The Music Meister (Darren Criss) attacks Supergirl. John Medlen directed the episode written by Katie Rose Rogers & Jess Kardos (#216). Original airdate 3/20/2017.

the beginning of the musical crossover 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/03/supergirl-episode-216-star-crossed.html

 

musical crossover

Quote

“Duet” — (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (Content Rating TBD) (HDTV)

DARREN CRISS (“GLEE”) GUEST STARS AS THE MUSIC MEISTER IN THE FLASH AND SUPERGIRL MUSICAL CROSSOVER – Barry (Grant Gustin) and team are surprised when Mon-El (guest star Chris Wood) and Hank Henshaw (guest star David Harewood) arrive on their Earth carrying a comatose Supergirl (guest star Melissa Benoist) who was whammied by the Music Meister (guest star Darren Criss). Unable to wake her up, they turn to Team Flash to save her. However, the Music Meister surprises The Flash and puts him in a similar coma, one that Team Flash can’t cure. Kara and Barry wake up without their powers in an alternate reality where life is like a musical and the only way to escape is by following the script, complete with singing and dancing, to the end. Dermott Downs directed the episode with story by Greg Berlanti & Andrew Kreisberg and teleplay by Aaron Helbing & Todd Helbing (#317). Original airdate 3/21/2017. 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/03/the-flash-episode-317-duet-press-release.html

[Cleanqueen]

sounds like a mess

[jay741982]

44 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

the beginning of the musical crossover 

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/03/supergirl-episode-216-star-crossed.html

 

musical crossover

http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/03/the-flash-episode-317-duet-press-release.html

I'm ticked that it can't be Alex and J'onn bringing her over its gotta be Show eater Douche El

[calliope1975]

5 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

I saw Logan earlier today, and I'm pretty sure it was the very best piece of misery porn I've ever watched.

I never wanna see it again.

Logan was the Wolverine movie I deserved, and the X23 I've always wanted. It was also crazy depressing. I can't believe I've spent 17 years with these actors/characters. I thought it was phenomenal, but yeah, that's going to be a hard rewatch. 

[BkWurm1]

8 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

I saw Logan earlier today, and I'm pretty sure it was the very best piece of misery porn I've ever watched.

I never wanna see it again.

Ha!  The exact review I needed.  

4 hours ago, Cleanqueen said:

sounds like a mess

I fully expect the musical crossover to be ridiculous but I suspect that will be part of the charm.  

[ruby24]

45 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I fully expect the musical crossover to be ridiculous but I suspect that will be part of the charm.  

Yeah, probably. But I was hoping it wouldn't be this whole "it was all a dream" approach that they're kind of doing, so that the other characters could experience it too. If it's just Barry and Kara that means anyone else involved in the alternate reality will basically just be dream versions of themselves. 

So the supporting characters won't get to actually meet each other or anything. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by ruby24

[BkWurm1]

39 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, probably. But I was hoping it wouldn't be this whole "it was all a dream" approach that they're kind of doing, so that the other characters could experience it too. If it's just Barry and Kara that means anyone else involved in the alternate reality will basically just be dream versions of themselves. 

So the supporting characters won't get to actually meet each other or anything. 

Oh, I don't like that idea at all.  I'm fine with Barry and Kara off in a dream world but I want the rest of the cast to be singing about their issues, not just back up for Barry and Kara's. Sigh.  You are probably right though.  Boo.   

At least we know Kara's people really bring her to Star Labs so they will get to really meet them even if they don't strike up a tune.  Not sure why they think that Star Labs would be better able to deal with it than anyone on their own world.  I supposed they'll just have someone say that, "No one on this world is equipped to help her"  Personally, that's when I'd call Clark and see if he has any suggestions.  

[Velocity23]

Riverdale back up to 0.4 

[wonderwall]

I'm thinking they're going to push Riverdale to Friday, push Supernatural back to the 9pm slot and replace the 8pm slot with Black Lightning next year... What do you guys think? Or do you think there are better candidates for the friday slot?

[Velocity23]

Izombie, the 100, CEG, JTV is a possibility for Friday. 

 

I think they might give Riverdale with Supergirl. Black Lightning with Arrow (pushing it to 9 PM)

Or maybe Riverdale with one of the more female skewing shows. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Velocity23

[Starfish35]

Well they'll still have CEG next season. And JtV  isn't getting any better ratings than Riverdale at the moment, and it will be at four seasons next year.

We don't know yet if The Originals is going to be renewed, or what iZombie's ratings are going to look like. 

So hard to say really.  Also, there's the 100, if it gets renewed, which is not guaranteed.

[wonderwall]

JtV will always remain in the Monday slot as long as it's getting critical reception and it has similar ratings to Riverdale right now. So if I were the CW I'd axe Riverdale over JtV. 

The 100 performs just as well as Riverdale and its in its 4th season. I'd say Riverdale is in a worse position.

Did they renew CeG yet? I have a feeling that would be the one they cancel because the ratings for that show are abysmal and the critical reception Rebecca Bloom gets for that show isn't worth it at all. 

I can see The Originals getting one of the Friday slots. As for iZombie I think the CW might do the same deal it did this year. Let LoT run for 16-17 episodes then replace it with iZombie

[Starfish35]

CEG has already been renewed.  And it won awards in its first season but that didn't stop it from being banished to Friday.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

CEG has already been renewed.  And it won awards in its first season but that didn't stop it from being banished to Friday.

Oh yeah then CeG is definitely getting the other friday slot... JFC the CW has too many shows. 

Maybe they'll cut the episode order for CeG and the Originals to fit some other show in...

Edited March 3, 2017 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

Right now the shows that haven't been renewed are Frequency (probably cancelled), No Tomorrow (probably cancelled), Riverdale, The 100, iZombie (yet to air), and The Originals (yet to air).

[Morrigan2575]

The way Mark Pedowitz talked Black Lightning wouldn't get a full season order. More likely (as he implied) LoT and Black Lightning would end up splitting a timeslot  (LoT in Fall and BL in Spring). 

They could move Arrow to 9PM to try and give it a ratings boost although I don't know if that would help. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

Izombie is getting renewed to get those 4 seasons most likely.  I am not so sure about Originals. I think they are done. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

The way Mark Pedowitz talked Black Lightning wouldn't get a full season order. More likely (as he implied) LoT and Black Lightning would end up splitting the Tuesday 9PM slot (LoT in Fall and BL in Spring).

 

They can't do this if LoT will be getting 17 episode orders... I'm guessing they're going to have to cut it to 10-13 episodes per season. I'm also guessing they're going to give Black Lighting a better chance by airing it in the fall and LoT in the spring

[statsgirl]

But airing LOT in the spring doesn't give them the chance to do their big 4 show crossover in the 608 slot.

[Velocity23]

Their 9 PM shows are a disaster. Arrow with its ratings will be an improvement. 

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, wonderwall said:

They can't do this if LoT will be getting 17 episode orders... I'm guessing they're going to have to cut it to 10-13 episodes per season. I'm also guessing they're going to give Black Lighting a better chance by airing it in the fall and LoT in the spring

They can do it it actually means less reruns and breaks. TVD got a 16 episodes for it's Final Season and The Originals got a 13 episode order.

[Starfish35]

Just now, statsgirl said:

But airing LOT in the spring doesn't give them the chance to do their big 4 show crossover in the 608 slot.

Yep. 

Also

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

They can't do this if LoT will be getting 17 episode orders... I'm guessing they're going to have to cut it to 10-13 episodes per season. I'm also guessing they're going to give Black Lighting a better chance by airing it in the fall and LoT in the spring

why would they cut what is currently their third highest rated show?

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Yep. 

Also

why would they cut what is currently their third highest rated show?

ETA: never mind you weren't replying to me

Edited March 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Velocity23]

I think the question is if they gonna keep LOT after FLash? And not give a newbie the spot after Flash?

Also during crossover time that seems a bit of a overkill. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Velocity23

[Starfish35]

Just now, Morrigan2575 said:

Well they only had 16 episodes in S1 and 17 episodes in S2. Not sure why going back to 16 episodes for S3 would be that big of a deal.

Wonderwall was saying 10-13, not 16. 

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, I edited my post after I realized you weren't replying to my post about giving LoT a 16 episode order next year.

[Starfish35]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

I think the question is if they gonna keep LOT after FLash? And not give a newbie the spot after Flash?

Well as @Morrigan2575 pointed out awhile back, the Flash lead has never done a great deal for any of the new shows they've put behind it.  Not saying they're not going to try to put a new show behind Flash next year, but it hasn't been a terribly successful strategy for the last couple of years.  They may figure at least LoT is improving that timeslot.

[Velocity23]

But  4- NIGHT EVENT! 

[Starfish35]

Just now, Velocity23 said:

But  4- NIGHT EVENT! 

That's true.  Good point.

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

Well as @Morrigan2575 pointed out awhile back, the Flash lead has never done a great deal for any of the new shows they've put behind it.  Not saying they're not going to try to put a new show behind Flash next year, but it hasn't been a terribly successful strategy for the last couple of years.  They may figure at least LoT is improving that timeslot.

I was thinking about it. I first assumed they'd keep LoT Tuesday's at 9PM since its the only show to really benefit from Flash as a lead in. Then I changed my mind and figured they would want to use it to launch a new show.

I think its a toss up. Classic thinking is use your flagship to launch new shows but, history indicates Flash probably won't help new shows.

[Velocity23]

Did LOT rise that much from the ratings they were getting in the fall?

[Starfish35]

2 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Did LOT rise that much from the ratings they were getting in the fall?

LoT hasn't risen - the rest have just fallen more.  Arrow in particular. Stable is the new up. Lol. :)

Edited March 3, 2017 by Starfish35

[Velocity23]

I think this why i am unsure what they gonna do with LOT next season. LOT is basically safe for s3 and s4. So are you gonna keep LOT after Flash which has had the best retention after it. Or do you try a new show after the Flash. And the Flash will start losing its steam soon also. 

[tv echo]

The 43rd Annual Saturn Award Nominations Have Been Announced!
Posted by Bill Watters March 2, 2017
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/03/02/43rd-annual-saturn-award-nominations-announced/

Best Superhero Adaptation Television Series:
Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Arrow
Flash, The
Gotham
Legion
Supergirl

Best Actor on a Television Series:
Bruce Campbell – Ash vs. Evil Dead
Mike Colter – Marvel’s Luke Cage
Charlie Cox – Marvel’s Daredevil
Grant Gustin – The Flash
Sam Heughan – Outlander
Freddie Highmore – Bates Motel
Andrew Lincoln – The Walking Dead

Best Actress on a Television Series:
Melissa Benoist – Supergirl
Caitriona Balfe – Outlander
Kim Dickens – Fear the Walking Dead
Vera Farmiga – Bates Motel
Lena Headey – Game of Thrones
Sarah Paulson – American Horror Story: Roanoke
Winona Ryder – Stranger Things

Best Supporting Actor on a Television Series:
Linden Ashby – Teen Wolf
Mehcad Brooks – Supergirl
Kit Harrington – Game of Thrones
Ed Harris – Westworld
Lee Majors – Ash vs. Evil Dead
Norman Reedus – The Walking Dead
Jeffrey Wright – Westworld

Best Supporting Actress on a Television Series:
Kathy Bates – American Horror Story: Roanoke
Danai Gurira – The Walking Dead
Melissa McBride – The Walking Dead
Thandie Newton – Westworld
Candice Patton – The Flash
Adina Porter – American Horror Story: Roanoke
Evan Rachel Wood – Westworld

Best Guest Performance on a Television Series:
Ian Bohen – Teen Wolf
Tyler Hoechlin – Supergirl
Anthony Hopkins – Westworld
Leslie Jordan American – Horror Story: Roanoke
Jeffrey Dean Morgan – The Walking Dead
Dominique Pinon – Outlander

[Chaser]

LOL - Mehcad Brooks?

[benteen]

Been a fan of Alexander Siddig since Deep Space Nine.  I was thrilled when they cast him for Game of Thrones.  Felt they wasted him and glad to see him once again back on television even though I haven't watched Gotham in a long time.

[Cleanqueen]

Candice is great but I don't think she should be within that league...also Mehcad????

[Chaser]

It's such a weird mix.

[wonderwall]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

why would they cut what is currently their third highest rated show?

Maybe the cost of what it makes to make an episode doesn't justify the ratings? Last I heard, LoT was more expensive to make than Flash.

2 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

But  4- NIGHT EVENT! 

Yeah this is a more compelling argument lol

Edited March 3, 2017 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

13 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Maybe the cost of what it makes to make an episode doesn't justify the ratings? Last I heard, LoT was more expensive to make than Flash.

Maybe for the first season, but I'm sure they've cut the costs down significantly since then.  I doubt it's more expensive than Supergirl, and Supergirl's ratings aren't a whole lot better these days.  And no one's talking about cutting Supergirl's episode count down. 

[wonderwall]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

Maybe for the first season, but I'm sure they've cut the costs down significantly since then.  I doubt it's more expensive than Supergirl, and Supergirl's ratings aren't a whole lot better these days.  And no one's talking about cutting Supergirl's episode count down. 

From the special effects, Victor Garber, Brandon Routh, and bringing in Neal/Barrowman, I really doubt it. I mean I only heard about this during its second season so I don't think the stuff I heard is outdated.

As for Supergirl even though they got Linda/Teri this season for an episode and they have a lot of special effects to deal with, they also let go of Calista which helped them save costs (I'm sure she was SUPER expensive) and it's the 2nd highest rated show on the network.

I don't like Supergirl at all and I think it's really not as progressive as the network makes it seem. But if I were to cut down some episodes, purely in a business sense, I'd cut down LoT which initally got a 13 episode order which got extended. It's less drastic than cutting Supergirl from 23 to 13. 

[Velocity23]

I think Supergirl has 22 episodes. 

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

and it's the 2nd highest rated show on the network.

And Legends is third highest, and there's not a lot of air between the two these days.  I'd have to see some actual numbers to believe that they're that expensive.   I get that some people don't like Legends, and would rather it just go away, but still.  

[Morrigan2575]

I would guess Supergirl is more expensive because they're still carrying those CBS Actor contracts for the S1 regulars.

I have heard that Supergirl sells (merchandise wise) really well for WB. I have no idea what LoT does as far as making WB money. I've heard that Arrow makes the WB the most because it's the cheapest to produce and sells really well. 

Beyond that it's all guess work but, profit wise my guess would be Arrow, Flash, Supergirl and LoT. 

[wonderwall]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I would guess Supergirl is more expensive because they're still carrying those CBS Actor contracts for the S1 regulars.

 

Wouldn't letting go of Calista would've offset that? 

Also, yeah, I've also heard that SG merchandise sells really well, I can't see the CW cutting its episode count. The WB wouldn't allow it.

[Velocity23]

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Wouldn't letting go of Calista would've offset that? 

Also, yeah, I've also heard that SG merchandise sells really well, I can't see the CW cutting its episode count. The WB wouldn't allow it.

The payacale between the Big Networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and even FOX) and The CW is massive. The CW does not pay it's actors a lot, especially the younger ones. 

So no,  losing Calista wouldn't compensate when the rest of the S1 Regulars are all probably making as much, maybe even more than the highest paid actors on the rest of the shows.