Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Edit: About a month or so ago, Lexi Alexander posted a series of tweets about female directors not wanting to go back to certain shows that had frat boy crews, and that they would warn other female directors to avoid those shows. She's deleted all the tweets now [she deletes all her tweets every few weeks], but I totally got an impression one of the shows she was talking about was Arrow. "Frat boy crew" does fit Arrow to a T.

I saw thoe tweets and wondered if she was talking about Arrow

[Sunshine]

Arrow probably fits the bill too but didn't they happen about the same time Berlanti was talking about offering episodes of LOT to women with no takers?

[FurryFury]

8 hours ago, dtissagirl said:

LOT = 1 non-white dude, Kevin Tancharoen [who imo is a legit talented director who needs to get better gigs], no women.

Is that Maurissa's brother? Jeez, how many people in the industry does that family have?!

Not sure if I've seen a Bamford episode, and I don't really care about directing that much. Writing is always the main draw for me, followed by acting.

[lexicon]

5 hours ago, FurryFury said:

Not sure if I've seen a Bamford episode, and I don't really care about directing that much. Writing is always the main draw for me, followed by acting.

Trust me - if you'd seen a Bamford episode you'd remember it (and care about any further directing attempts by him). The first ep was all about the shaky cam and weird transitions. Imo not a stellar debut but it seems TPTB and the media reporting surrounding the ep didn't concur.

[Morrigan2575]

7 hours ago, FurryFury said:

Is that Maurissa's brother? Jeez, how many people in the industry does that family have?!

Not sure if I've seen a Bamford episode, and I don't really care about directing that much. Writing is always the main draw for me, followed by acting.

His first episode (407 - Brotherhood ) was written for him which basically made it a nonsensical episode that was only there to setup the next Stunt sequence.  His second episode (414 - Code of Silence) was a fill-in spot as Antonio Negret had to drop out for a movie.  This one was badly paced and had their weirdest transitions I've ever seen. Mostly he's just a poor director, IMO.  

Edited September 7, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[quarks]

The main issue with Bamford as a director, for me at least, is that intentionally or not he makes you aware that the camera is there. Sometimes there are good, story reasons for reminding viewers that hey, this is on film, but speaking very generally, Arrow really isn't that sort of show. And that "HEY CAMERA IS HERE" isn't followed up by some of the genuinely awesome shots two of the Arrow camera guys have done on multiple episodes.  He also never seems to do the Arrow trick of creating a sequence that ends with a final moment framed to look like a comic book panel.  Granted, he's not the only Arrow director who fails to do this, but it's one of the elements that contributes to the overall "look" of Arrow,  so I notice when it's missing.

[looptab]

^This. Usually I don't pay attention, I'm not even aware of it - but in his episodes, boy if you notice that someone's filming.

Curious, I don't think I ever noticed  this thing of ending of a sequence like a comic panel. Do you have some scenes in mind? I'd like to go check :)

[Starfish35]

I'm drawing a blank on Code of Silence (right now I'd have to go look it up to even remember  what it was about), but Brotherhood was a mess, at least in my opinion.  But that may be a matter of perspective - I loathe the shaky-cam first-person-shooter style, and some people love it.  I was definitely not pleased to have WM say we're going to be getting more of that.  I honestly don't understand the appeal, but different strokes as they say.  

ETA: Oh, that one.  Ok. I didn't notice the directing on that one because I was too distracted by Thea turning into MG's mouthpiece in order to "justify" Oliver's lies.  *sigh*

Edited September 7, 2016 by Starfish35

[Guest]

All I remember about Code of Silence is Thea, the one person who has been anti-lies since the beginning, telling Oliver he's right to lie to Felicity. So...garbage.

Filming wise though, nothing beats Brotherhood. I still feel sick thinking about shaky cam.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

I don't care for shaky cameras, but I do love long takes, and tricky shots, and fun camera movements. I would have eaten up that long take elevator fight scene if it had any narrative depth to it. But it had none. Why were Thea and Andy the two fighters involved in the scene? They never met, they meant nothing to each other, what were the stakes in that particular fight?

I can take a pretty good guess why BamBam went with Thea and Andy, though. He wanted to use an actual real elevator for the oner, and for that he needed the two tiny tiniest fighters they got, so that both of them, plus a steadycam mounted camera, plus the steadycam operator could fit in that damn elevator. Anyone bigger than those two teeny tiny stunt people, and the shot couldn't happen. They chose style over story for technical reasons, and it made the narrative empty.

[quarks]

2 hours ago, looptab said:

Curious, I don't think I ever noticed  this thing of ending of a sequence like a comic panel. Do you have some scenes in mind? I'd like to go check :)

The one that immediately came to mind is that 30 second stunt sequence that starts off episode 121, "The Undertaking," which is just beautiful - they set up the camera and the wire work so that the goon slides directly in front of the evil accountant - and then the doorway and walls create a comic panel frame, before transitioning to an Arrow Cave shot, widening the panels.  I ooohed out loud.

[tv echo]

20 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Does this mean Bamford is directing an episode of Supergirl?

Bamford also tweeted that he's "somewhat" involved in S2 of Supergirl...

Edited September 7, 2016 by tv echo

[kismet]

21 hours ago, Belinea said:

Just a question: Are they using Oliver to get more people to tune in? Is that a false assumption? If that were the case  I don't know how many people he'd be able to pull in but maybe they should use SuperBarry for more eyeballs then... 

Maybe they want to pull in quality viewers and not quantity? SuperBarry has got the numbers, but he would suck on LoT.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

All I remember about Code of Silence is Thea, the one person who has been anti-lies since the beginning, telling Oliver he's right to lie to Felicity. So...garbage.

Filming wise though, nothing beats Brotherhood. I still feel sick thinking about shaky cam.

From Code of Silence, i remember the crazy ass transitions the most. Like there was one of the wheel on Felicity's wheelchair somehow transitioning into a flashback for no reason.

I also can't remember if it was Code or Brotherhood but there was a transition that zoomed in on Oliver's eye and one of a photograph/frame. 

I hate shakey cam but, i think he got over that after 407. However, he transition and pacing in both eps really hurt the episode. 

[Starfish35]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

From Code of Silence, i remember the crazy ass transitions the most. Like there was one of the wheel on Felicity's wheelchair somehow transitioning into a flashback for no reason.

Oh yeah, I remember that one now that you mention it.  It was a weird transition.

[looptab]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

The one that immediately came to mind is that 30 second stunt sequence that starts off episode 121, "The Undertaking," which is just beautiful - they set up the camera and the wire work so that the goon slides directly in front of the evil accountant - and then the doorway and walls create a comic panel frame, before transitioning to an Arrow Cave shot, widening the panels.  I ooohed out loud.

I'll check it out, thank you :) 

Edited September 7, 2016 by looptab

[tv echo]

LoT spoilers from the TVLine article posted by @Soulfire on page 43 of the Spoilers thread...

Quote

LEGENDS OF TOMORROW
It’ll be some “time” before we find out what Hourman said to the Legends in the May finale, seeing as Season 2 opens months later, with Rip, Sara, Mick et al mysteriously scattered throughout time, which mild-mannered historian Nate Heywood (new series regular Nick Zano) discovers — and with Oliver Queen’s nudging aims to set right — in the premiere. “What makes Nick fun is he’s the wide-eyed neophyte. He doesn't know what superheroes are,” showrunner Phil Klemmer says of the Indiana Jones-like academic. “His infectious enthusiasm buoys the rest of our Legends, reminding them and the audience that time travel is fun.” Joining in the adventure is a new iteration of Vixen, plus JSA members such as Stargirl and Obsidian, while a Legion of Doom comprised of Reverse-Flash, Captain Cold, Malcolm Merlyn and Damien Darhk will keeps the heroes hopping by tinkering with time. “We had a singular bad guy in Season 1,” Klemmer reminds, “and now we have four, each with their own, somewhat competing agendas.”
BONUS SPOILER!: Among the rejiggered team, Klemmer is most excited for people to witness the dynamic between Mick and Vixen: “To put a ‘greatest generation’ JSA member against a 2016 criminal scumbag makes for delicious tension!”

http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-2016-season-premiere-spoilers/#!24/out-of-time/

[tv echo]

Interview with Greg Berlanti (lengthy but interesting, recommend reading the entire thing)...

The Secret to Superhero TV
By Abraham Riesman  September 7, 2016
http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/dc-comics-greg-berlanti-c-v-r.html

Quote

Is TV just a better medium than movies for what you believe superhero stories do best?
TV lends itself a bit more to comic books. Comics are ongoing. You get these twists and turns in the narrative and go deeper in smaller moments into these characters’ lives. You don’t have to keep a high-octane train moving at all times. I think one of the joys of television in general, versus film, is that things get to settle. TV’s job is to make you lean in, and a film’s job is to make you lean back.

What comic books did you read growing up?
I read some Marvel, but I was more of a DC guy. Particularly the Flash, Barry Allen.1 I latched on to him because I felt like him. You thought to yourself, Well, you can’t really be Superman. You couldn’t really be Batman — Batman was a really dark figure. I identified with Barry Allen’s hopefulness.
*  *  *
Your shows are far more hopeful and romantic than anything in superhero film or even in most superhero comics. Does that come from those feelings you had as a kid?
I liked a lot of the unspoken stuff. I would imagine, There’s gotta be some heat that’s passing between Wonder Woman and Superman. He’s in love with Lois Lane, but he and Wonder Woman are out there working together! You start to think about those complications.

You were seeing things that weren’t necessarily explicit.
Every now and then, someone would make them explicit, and you’d be like, That’s what I was thinking!
*  *  *
What did you want to do differently with Arrow compared to what had been done in past superhero TV shows?
Homeland had just come out at the time, and thank God it did, because we referenced it a lot in our conversations with the studio and the network. There was this guy who disappeared and comes back and was clearly tortured both physically and mentally. There was that sense of, Is he good? Is he bad? He’s still trying to figure it out. What happened to him there? What’s happening to him now? All of that mystery that surrounded him was something that was really intriguing to us.

Plus, Stephen Amell, your lead, was incredibly hot. Your shows’ sexual perspective is pretty interesting in general: The men are the eye candy much more than the women. Amell spends like half of any given episode topless.
I know. I will say there are so many other, straight people involved in this that you could credit for that over me. We actually never saw what [Amell] looked like underneath his shirt when we cast him. It wasn’t until he started working out for the part and sending us videos while he was training that we said, “Oh, he can do the salmon ladder. Put that in.” When I see stuff like that in the dailies, I’m not afraid of it. There was the boy in me that loved comic books who loved some of those scenes in that for the superhero-ness, and then there was the person in me who didn’t mind having a hot guy doing the salmon ladder.
*  *  *
We live in this era of the television hyperproducer who oversees an empire of shows. Shonda Rhimes’s is the main name thrown around in discussions about that phenomenon, but you’re another one of those folks. How do you, specifically with the DC shows, make sure that all these similar and sometimes-interlocking stories sync up?
I’m in each of the story rooms every day. I go through each of the shows. There are things I miss, but there’s me, the showrunners are talking to each other, then the studio executives, and then the network executives. Four different groups are giving notes, so if I miss something, someone will catch it. That being said, we still make those mistakes. When you start incorporating time travel or parallel universes …

To what extent are the comics R&D for the TV and movie properties? Does DC Comics president Geoff Johns come to you and say, “Hey, here’s something we tried out in a comic. Let’s try it here”?
Sometimes, or he has other executives mention that to us. They said to us a year and a half before they started developing Suicide Squad, “Will you guys put [a version of] the Suicide Squad in your show? Because we want to have it as a film at some point.” It also happened with Geoff when Geoff and Andrew [Kreisberg] and I were creating Flash. They were both really huge fans of Cisco Ramon, [also known as] Vibe, and had written a Vibe comic [in 2013] to try and bring him back. They said, “Could we please have Vibe on the show?”
*  *  *
When did you realize that racial representation was important to you?
On Everwood, we had an interracial relationship. But it’s been since we started doing superhero shows. We created Diggle with that reason in mind. Now we’re trying to add more LGBT characters. Diversity is a vital part of the show — and it’s important behind the camera, too. This is the first season where 50 percent of Arrow's episodes will be directed by people who are not white men.

Greg Berlanti’s Booster Gold Movie Won’t Be in DC Cinematic Universe
By Abraham Riesman   September 7, 2016
http://www.vulture.com/2016/09/booster-gold-movie-wont-be-in-dc-universe.html

Quote

Back in May, superhero fans displeased with the DC cinematic universe's sludge-heavy darkness saw a ray of light when the world learned a Booster Gold movie was in development. The character is a humorous DC Comics mainstay, a cocky gent from the future who steals some high-tech equipment, travels back in time, and seeks fame and fortune as a superhero in the present. What's more, the potential film was being developed and possibly directed by Greg Berlanti, the super-producer behind sunny DC TV properties like The Flash and Supergirl. But as Vulture learned during our talk with Berlanti, it looks like Ol' Boosty won't be inhabiting the same shared universe as Batfleck and the murderous Henry Cavill Superman.

"As of right now we have no connective tissue to those worlds," Berlanti said when asked if the movie would be part of the DC Extended Universe that already includes Man of Steel, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, and Suicide Squad (with Wonder Woman and Justice League following in 2017). "It'd be a separate thing." He also said the project emerged from a long-dead Booster Gold TV show idea he was working on with longtime producing collaborator Andrew Kreisberg that "never got off the ground." After it bit the dust, Berlanti and Kreisberg got into talks with DC Entertainment president and chief creative officer (and reported new film co-chief) Geoff Johns, and the topic of the producing duo doing a movie came up.

Edited September 7, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Oh joy... seriously, though, I doubt this will happen...

‘Arrow: The Dark Archer’: Malcolm Merlyn could be the next CW spinoff
BY LINDSAY MACDONALD AT 10:09 AM ON SEP 6, 2016
http://zap2it.com/2016/09/arrow-the-dark-archer-could-launch-malcolm-merlyn-spinoff/

Quote

Was there any input from Greg Berlanti or anyone on the ‘Arrow’ team?
JB: To be honest, I don’t even know if any of the producers have read this, but we went in and told Greg Berlanti before Season 4. We went in to talk about Malcolm’s trajectory for the season, and while we were there, we told him we were doing this. We took this on as a separate entity to the TV show because we wanted to do it as fans and also for the creative process.

If the producers do read it and like it, I’d love to see it jump onto the screen because I think there’s a lot of stuff in there that the fans would like. I know Mark Pedowitz is a fan of mine, and he’s the head of the network. As soon as I get a couple more editions I’m going to send him one and let him read it, so you know, who knows what will happen?

A potential Malcolm Merlyn spinoff, maybe?
JB: That would be awesome.

CB: That would be so fun!

Edited September 7, 2016 by tv echo

[looptab]

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't they tease, at some point during last season, that something about these comics would play out in the show? 

[tv echo]

How Do You Create a TV Industry That Supports Women Directors? You Try
Liz Shannon Miller   September 7, 2016
http://www.indiewire.com/2016/09/women-directors-tv-fx-ava-duvernay-supergirl-queen-sugar-arrow-greg-berlanti-1201723785/

Quote

Another collection of shows that have been dedicated to inclusivity behind the camera is, believe it or not, the DC TV universe spearheaded by executive producer Greg Berlanti. The showrunners behind “Arrow,” “The Flash,” “DC’s Legends of Tomorrow” and “Supergirl” have all tackled this issue, with producer Marc Guggenheim announcing at this year’s TCA press tour that 50 percent of the directors on “Arrow” this upcoming Season 5 will be diverse, and that the other DC shows are equally committed to the cause.

“It’s a huge priority for all the shows, and for us as a company,” producer Sarah Schechter added.

Berlanti noted that in seeking out women directors, he ran into unexpected complications that led to women saying no. “We do most of our shows are out of town, and there are a lot of female directors who are actually not just the breadwinner in their house, but they’re also having to go home and take care of their kids,” he said. “So you’re going to offer them an opportunity out of town for two or three weeks, and it’s challenging for them.”

That meant the team had to stay committed to the cause and keep making offers. “On ‘Legends,’ I think we offered something like 20 women to direct that we got passes on. But we still kept our numbers up by just asking the 22nd, and the 23rd, and the 24th,” Berlanti said.
*  *  *
This “catch-22” of director hiring is one that Greg Berlanti also addressed at the TCA press tour, remarking that because they’ve been pushing to increase behind-the-scenes diversity in recent years, they’ve been able to create real ongoing change. “One of the rewarding things is that this year, in particular, a lot of the individuals that we’ve worked with over the past couple of years are booked and are doing other shows,” he said.
*  *  *
It’s change that matters, if only because it represents movement towards actually representing the world we live in. As “Supergirl” executive producer Ali Adler cracked last month: “Women are not the minority. We’re actually the majority. Just don’t tell anyone.”

Edited September 7, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

20 minutes ago, looptab said:

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't they tease, at some point during last season, that something about these comics would play out in the show? 

If you're referring to the Dark Archer comics, there's this June 2016 interview with JB/CB...

Quote

In an earlier interview, you said Greg Berlanti suggested that the show could use some elements of your comic. Since “Arrow” Season 4 has wrapped and “Dark Archer” is winding down, can you give us any sort of update on that?

John Barrowman: It wasn’t just Greg! It was Andrew Kreisberg, also. They had mentioned that they might decide to do something with the show if we were cool with it and everybody agreed. Nothing has gone further with that, I think because of the many things they’re doing at the moment, with “Legends [of Tomorrow]” and “Arrow,” “Supergirl” now coming into the fold, and also “Flash.” I would love to see some things. What’s great is that we’ve given Malcolm a son, who is another character who could possibly appear, because the relationship between Malcolm and Thea has come to a resolution in so many aspects. I would love to see his son being brought into the fold. 
Carole Barrowman: Yeah, that’s the other thing, actually, because there’s some movement in those last two chapters for Saracon’s powers to grow even more. Because of what was foreshadowed in the very first few chapters, he repeats the pattern in the last chapter. I’m dancing around the real thing!

http://www.cbr.com/barrowmans-promise-pretty-f-in-awesome-finale-for-arrow-dark-archer/

Edited September 7, 2016 by tv echo

[Trini]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

Interview with Greg Berlanti (lengthy but interesting, recommend reading the entire thing)...

The Secret to Superhero TV
By Abraham Riesman  September 7, 2016
http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/dc-comics-greg-berlanti-c-v-r.html

That part about testing out characters in the TV shows before the films makes me wonder what other* things from the Flash TV show might end up in the Flash movie.

*(An Iris West who is a woman of color, for example)

[Velocity23]

Quote

“When Supergirl and Superman walk into the room, everyone gets really quiet about him. And her reaction is, “Oh, please…” We sort of liken it to if your brother was a famous rock star, or a famous movie star, all you remember is a lifetime of growing up and fighting over who’s sitting in the backseat, and sharing a bathroom, and he pulled my hair. And then you go to a restaurant, and people are sending him drinks, like, ‘Oh, right this way…’ and that’s sort of Kara’s interaction. People have asked us how do you make sure that Superman doesn’t overwhelm the lead of your show? Rather than shy away from that, we’re embracing it. It’s kind of the idea like, yeah, he is more popular than she is. How does she deal with that? That’s our take on that dynamic that’s between them.”

http://heroichollywood.com/supergirl-will-also-deal-superman-popular/

 

These people never learn.

[catrox14]

Well that's pretty disappointing. It's shitty to make Kara take a backseat to Superman in her own damn show. Maybe she and Oliver need to hang out & commiserate.

[tv echo]

Collider commented on GB's Vulture interview (posted above on this page), esp. GB's disclosure that DC asked to see the Suicide Squad on Arrow while they were developing the feature film version...

‘Suicide Squad’ Was Tested on The CW’s ‘Arrow’ Says Greg Berlanti
BY DAVE TRUMBORE  September 7, 2016
http://collider.com/suicide-squad-arrow-test-greg-berlanti/

Quote

Though Berlanti doesn’t come right out and say it, we can connect the dots and presume that once Task Force X proved to be a viable commodity on Arrow, the TV versions of the characters had to be wiped out in order to clear the way for the big-screen iteration to prevent any confusion. Captain Boomerang “died” and came back on the show, just as he did in the film; Harley Quinn was glimpsed but deemed too deranged for the episodes’ missions; Shrapnel–a serial bomber who’s arguably slightly more useful than Slipknot, who can climb anything–died while trying to escape, setting an example for the rest of the squad; Bronze Tiger was killed off in a comic book battle between episodes; Deadshot sacrificed himself to allow the others time to escape; and even Waller herself met a violent end.

The fates of each version of the DC Comics characters may have differed between the TV and film versions, but it’s not a stretch to see how the Suicide Squad was temporarily worked into the plot of Arrow to test the waters. I actually rather enjoyed the little side adventures from the main plot of the series since it gave some breathing room to the main cast and expanded the world of the comics-inspired show. I don’t, however, appreciate the amount of meddling that went into the making of Suicide Squad that could have come at the cost of Arrow’s quality, especially since I’m finding the TV side of the DC universe much more enjoyable than the movie-verse lately.

Edited September 8, 2016 by tv echo

[FurryFury]

I don't mind Kara having to deal with being overshadowed by Supes. It makes sense and will make her more relatable. Pretty sure she's going to learn that she's just as important as he is or something like that anyway.

[Velocity23]

[Chaser]

There needs to be more diversity in the genre. I'm annoyed its taken this long to do it for a number of reasons, one of the biggest ones is I feel the medium is oversaturated at this point. I don't think the show will get a fair shot.

[Morrigan2575]

By S2 FOX will replace the black lead with a white guy...that's how they roll

[Guest]

Thumbs up for a black superhero. Not sure it will last long on FOX though.

[Trini]

UGH -- Fox. Enjoy that one season, everybody.

[BkWurm1]

11 hours ago, FurryFury said:

I don't mind Kara having to deal with being overshadowed by Supes. It makes sense and will make her more relatable. Pretty sure she's going to learn that she's just as important as he is or something like that anyway.

I'm fine with Supes being the bigger name, he is, but while Kara might have changed his diapers, apart from some radically lax chatting on their computers out in the open, how well does Kara really know Clark?  He found her and brought her to the Danvers so she could have a "normal" childhood like he'd had but it's not like she'd been integrated into his regular life.  Jimmy Olsen, Superman's best friend knew who she was but Kara had never met him which pretty much said to me that she rarely, if ever, saw Clark in Metropolis. How often are we supposed to think she even hung out with him? 

They honestly didn't seem that close which make the kind of attitude they are describing not work for me.   I mean, I buy the emotional bond, but not a relationship where she'd have seen him pick his nose or get caught looking at girly magazines.  (Yes, my childhood predated the internet)

Edited September 9, 2016 by BkWurm1

[ruby24]

Yeah, that was my impression too. That she barely ever saw him. I wonder if they're going to retcon all that stuff.

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, that was my impression too. That she barely ever saw him. I wonder if they're going to retcon all that stuff.

Seems like it.  I would have loved them to have this great, close relationship, but I just feel like it's not what we were told/shown. 

[ruby24]

It isn't, but maybe they were vague enough about it to now do a rewrite on her childhood.

[BkWurm1]

I can't help wonder how much CBS tinkered with the show and how much fixing Berlanti is doing now that he isn't taxed with making CBS happy. 

[FurryFury]

I don't see how Kara has to be super-close with Supes to feel overshadowed by him. Plus they probably did meet offscreen quite a few times.

[tv echo]

Posting this because I need a page reference for my spoilers compilation (if it was posted before, I couldn't find it)...

'Flash’ and ‘Legends’ Get Animated in First ‘Vixen’ Season 2 Footage
Kevin Fitzpatrick | July 23, 2016 @ 10:54 PM
http://screencrush.com/vixen-season-2-trailer-clip/

Quote

As debuted at Comic-Con 2016, our first look at Vixen Season 2 sees Grant Gustin again lending his voice to the scarlet speedster (with a slightly-more accurate design this time), teaming with Franz Drameh and Victor Garber’s Firestorm to take on the second Weather Wizard. Don’t worry, Megalyn E.K.’s Vixen still shows up to save the day (it is her series, but might be in a bit of trouble.

In addition to Grant Gustin and Arrow star Stephen Amell returning, Season 2 of CW Seed’s Vixen will also feature Brandon Routh’s Ray Palmer and Katie Cassidy’s Black Canary. The story will be set before the latter character’s Arrow Season 4 demise, though as we learned at Comic-Con, Katie Cassidy will be popping up all over the DC universe regardless.

Edited September 9, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Joe Manganiello cast as Deathstroke in Ben Affleck's Batman movie
BY CHRISTIAN HOLUB • September 8 2016 — 2:58 PM EDT
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/09/08/joe-manganiello-deathstroke-ben-affleck-batman

Quote

Ben Affleck rattled comic fans everywhere last week when he tweeted footage of the classic DC antagonist Deathstroke, brought to life presumably for use in future DC superhero films. It turns out that wasn’t a fake-out: EW can confirm that Magic Mike star Joe Manganiello has been cast to play Deathstroke in Affleck’s upcoming solo Batman movie, though it’s unclear whether Manganiello’s Deathstroke will be the film’s only villain or if Jared Leto’s Joker will pop up as well. 
*  *  *
Visually, Deathstroke is defined by his orange and blue costume. It typically resembles some kind of mesh bodysuit but has apparently been transformed into full-fledged armor for the movies, judging by the footage Affleck teased. Half of his mask is always blacked out — because Deathstroke is so skilled he doesn’t care if his enemies know he has a missing eye. That mask is one of the very first visuals in the Arrow pilot, where it’s seen impaled on a sword on the island of Lian Yu (Arrow producer Marc Guggenheim told a fan on Tumblr back in February that Deathstroke probably wouldn’t be seen again on the show anytime soon since “the character of Slade Wilson is currently tied up in another DC project”)
*  *  *
Affleck’s solo Batman film doesn’t have a release date yet, though it is expected between 2018 and 2020. Affleck will direct and co-write the script with Geoff Johns, a longtime DC comic writer recently promoted to oversee the movies. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Ha ha...

DC finally admits it's been trying to make films too gritty and dark
Christopher Hooton @christophhooton 2 hours  ago
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/dc-finally-admits-its-been-trying-to-make-films-too-gritty-and-dark-a7233656.html

Quote

It seems they’ve finally learned their lesson though, with Warner Bros’ new head of DC Films Geoff Johns admitting this week that they’ve been sticking too fastidiously to a formula.

“Mistakenly in the past I think the studio has said, ‘Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that’s what makes them different.’” he told The Wall Street Journal.

“That couldn’t be more wrong. It’s a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn’t think he’d make tomorrow better, he’d stop.”
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Johns said WB are urgently trying to bring some go this “optimistic view” to the DC Extended Universe, following the critical panning of both Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad.

The problem is, no-one wants a hyper-positive film either.

It’s really the characters and writing that are causing DC to lag behind Marvel right now, so if they think just injecting some optimism and gags into Justice League is going to save it, they might be disappointed…

Justice League Will Be "Hopeful and Optimistic" Says DC Boss
Last updated by Dan Auty on September 9, 2016
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/justice-league-will-be-hopeful-and-optimistic-says/1100-6443441/

Quote

Although this year's Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice was a box office hit, it proved unpopular with both critics and many comic book fans. It has now been reported that the negative reaction has influenced the story and tone of the follow-up film, Justice League, which is currently in production.
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In a new interview with the Wall Street Journal, DC Films head Geoff Johns explained that the main issue was the basic approach that Warner had previously taken to its superhero movies.

"Mistakenly in the past I think the studio has said, 'Oh, DC films are gritty and dark and that's what makes them different.' That couldn't be more wrong," he said. "It's a hopeful and optimistic view of life. Even Batman has a glimmer of that in him. If he didn't think he'd make tomorrow better, he'd stop."

Fellow Warner executive Jon Berg went onto explain the reason why the original plan to split Justice League into two movie has been abandoned, with a single film due out next year. "We accelerated the story to get to the hope and optimism a little faster," he said.

This isn't the first time that those involved with Justice League have stressed that it will be a lot lighter in tone than the dark and moody Dawn of Justice.

"There's definitely room for more humor," Batman star Ben Affleck told Slashfilm in June. "DC movies I think, by their nature are a little more gothic, or mythic rather, than some comic book movies are. But [Dawn of Justice] was very dark and heavy because it was really rooted in Dark Knight Returns which is a heavy, dark book. And this is not that.

"[It] brings together all of these characters who have had their origins. It's about multilateralism, and it's about hope and about working together and the kind of conflicts of trying to work together with others."

Edited September 9, 2016 by tv echo

[bethy]

57 minutes ago, tv echo said:

It’s really the characters and writing that are causing DC to lag behind Marvel right now, so if they think just injecting some optimism and gags into Justice League is going to save it, they might be disappointed…

This is what I feel like is the issue with a lot of stuff out there. The studio or execs latch on to something - "It needs to be funnier!" - without seeming to realize that what draws most people into a story is caring about the characters and what's happening to them, whether there's humor involved or not. And that can only come from solid writing, not from shoehorning jokes into the script. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by bethy

[way2interested]

Just now, bethy said:

This is what I feel like is the issue with a lot of stuff out there. The studio or execs latch on to something - "It needs to be funnier!" - without seeming to realize that what draws most people into a story is caring about the characters and what's happening to them, whether there's humor involved or not. And that can only come from solid writing. 

I agree. A lot of people are taking the faults of the recent DC movies to a shallow degree, and I would hope that the studio/execs wouldn't, even though it looks like they will. Like, I don't think it has anything to do with being "light" or "funny" like Marvel, since a lot of people liked Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy just fine. It comes down to the characters and how you write them. Things can be dark as long as you balance it with reason/development/sense of optimism. They at least mentioned the idea that the characters have to balance out the darkness for it to work, but it's a lot easier to just keep doing what you're doing and just add a few jokes.

This is all just a shame because I would have loved a darker superhero movie genre to balance from Marvel, at least to give something different.

[ruby24]

I don't think dark and gritty works with the fundamentals of so many DC characters though. Batman is really the only one that can, but many of the others are light, optimistic, even silly in their premises (Aquaman for example, or all the stuff that Wonder Woman has that they got rid of for the movie, like her invisible jet and bullet deflecting bracelets, etc).

I think he's right to change it up, I just think they've already screwed themselves. I mean, it's going to feel like whiplash. How is the Superman they've already created going to just suddenly turn into the one people want? He's a completely different person.

What needs to happen is for them to start over, but obviously that can't be done. I think the heroes that haven't really been introduced yet stand the best chance. Like the new Flash movie.

And this is why I'm very skeptical of Wonder Woman. That movie was completed without input from Johns, it was still under Snyder's input. That can't be a good thing.

[dtissagirl]

The most glaring difference I see is Marvel makes movies, while WB/DC makes *superhero* movies. Marvel doesn't always succeed, but they don't treat "superhero" as a genre [because it kinda isn't?].

Thor 2 is a Shakesperean family drama, Iron Man 3 is a freaking Christmas movie, Winter Soldier is a spy movie, Guardians of the Galaxy is a con-man comedy, Antman is a heist flick, Civil War is a political thriller.

WB/DC made a decision on tone, but forgot to pick genres.

[kismet]

I also think the one BIG thing that the current batch of Marvel movies have over the current batch of DC movies is CHEMISTRY. There is very little chemistry in the DC movies. Marvel is oozing with chemistry. It doesn't matter whether they are trying to be dark & gritty or bright & witty. When I watch the Marvel movies, I can find tons of issues with plot, character development & pacing, that happens in most major movies these days, esp when a studio is significantly financially invested. However, the chemistry of the actors whether it be buddy, frenemy, romantic, platonic or familial feels genuine and realistic. I can see why the Marvel people are doing stuff together. I want to be a part of that group. In most of the DC movies, beyond being contractually obligated to interact, I really can't see why these people even bother to greet each other - nevermind save the world together.

Marvel feels like homecoming or reunion. DC feels like that weird work convention you're forced to attend with your awkward boss that they moved last minute from an exotic resort location to some random half closed town off the interstate. You don't even get to have cool umbrella drinks to balance out the weird.

[bethy]

8 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

The most glaring difference I see is Marvel makes movies, while WB/DC makes *superhero* movies. Marvel doesn't always succeed, but they don't treat "superhero" as a genre [because it kinda isn't?].

Thor 2 is a Shakesperean family drama, Iron Man 3 is a freaking Christmas movie, Winter Soldier is a spy movie, Guardians of the Galaxy is a con-man comedy, Antman is a heist flick, Civil War is a political thriller.

WB/DC made a decision on tone, but forgot to pick genres.

I like all of this. I'd never thought about the Marvel movies this way, but you're right.

6 minutes ago, kismet said:

Marvel feels like homecoming or reunion. DC feels like that weird work convention you're forced to attend with your awkward boss that they moved last minute from an exotic resort location to some random half closed town off the interstate. You don't even get to have cool umbrella drinks to balance out the weird.

HA!

[bettername2come]

I feel bad sometimes picking on DC because there's some things they got right. Their casting has been pretty good - Amy Adams, Henry Cavill, and Gal Gadot are all good actors who fit the bill for the characters. But then they do things like give Clark only 43 lines of dialogue in the entire movie. How does something like that even happen? They have to give us time with the characters as people, and they failed Superman in the last movie. 

[BkWurm1]

17 hours ago, FurryFury said:

I don't see how Kara has to be super-close with Supes to feel overshadowed by him. Plus they probably did meet offscreen quite a few times.

She wouldn't have to be very close to him to feel over shadowed but that's not what I have issue with, it's how they tackle the issue that I have an issue with.

Quote

When Supergirl and Superman walk into the room, everyone gets really quiet about him. And her reaction is, “Oh, please…” We sort of liken it to if your brother was a famous rock star, or a famous movie star, all you remember is a lifetime of growing up and fighting over who’s sitting in the backseat, and sharing a bathroom, and he pulled my hair. And then you go to a restaurant, and people are sending him drinks, like, ‘Oh, right this way…’ and that’s sort of Kara’s interaction. People have asked us how do you make sure that Superman doesn’t overwhelm the lead of your show? Rather than shy away from that, we’re embracing it. It’s kind of the idea like, yeah, he is more popular than she is. How does she deal with that? That’s our take on that dynamic that’s between them.”

They don't seem to say they are going to have her feel overshadowed, but rather that she sees people around her reacting all star struck and she'll be looking at these people in her life like, what the hell, he's just my dorky cousin, you don't have to freak out.  

That's the dynamic that i don't feel was earned.  From the little the show seemed to indicate that they'd interacted, it would IMO feel more natural for Kara to be a little star struck over her cousin as well, but that's not the direction they seem to be going.  It probably will be a nicer vibe between them, it 's just that I think they are going to have to sort of retcon at least the impression they left in season one about the state of their closeness. 

I always got the impression that they mattered a lot to each other, but that age and separate lives kept them from bonding like Kara and Alex did.  Kara to Alex is the kid sister that is now famous.  But Clark to Kara never felt like a familiar enough relationship to be surprised that anyone could be in awe of him. 

[BkWurm1]

19 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I feel bad sometimes picking on DC because there's some things they got right. Their casting has been pretty good - Amy Adams, Henry Cavill, and Gal Gadot are all good actors who fit the bill for the characters. But then they do things like give Clark only 43 lines of dialogue in the entire movie. How does something like that even happen? They have to give us time with the characters as people, and they failed Superman in the last movie. 

You are so right.  I initially walked away from Man of Steel certain that the lingering flaws in that movie, specifically the thin relationships between the characters, could be fixed in the sequel.  Then the sequel turned into a shared film but I still thought they'd shore up the relationships, instead they seemed to rely on pop culture knowledge of what the relationships should have been.  They didn't even do that with Superman himself. I'm still not sure of who he was supposed to be or how he really felt about things.  Batman was still recognizable as a version of Batman, but Superman was a huge mess.