Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[kismet]

Getting back to the favorites, it's really hard for me to rank them. Because often depending on the season or episode, they can shift.  Although minus the writers inability to write in s5, I would say my favorite character is Oliver Queen. I might have to look back on these s5 episodes, as OQ- Malfunctioning Robot because of some serious head trauma or broken heart from s4 - because there is no way the characterization works for their arc even if they are writing a regression arc.

For the other Flarrowverse characters, I like to think of them more are tiers or groups (names in no particular order)

Tier 1 (Characters I love) - Oliver, Felicity, Dig, Moira, Thea, Tommy, Malcolm, Damien, Sara, Quentin, Rip, Stein, Ray (LoT version), Gideon, Iris, Joe, Slade, Anatoly, Eddie, Cat, Kara, The Fern, Sally, and Window Repair Guy.

Tier 2 (Characters I really enjoy) - Roy, Mick, Snart, Cupid, Wally, Eobard, Lila, Baby Sara, Julian, Deadshot, Donna, Barry, J'onn, Winn, Alex, Maxwell, Lucy, Red Pen

Tier 3 (Characters I enjoy in limited quantities) - Laurel, Nyssa, Caitlin, Jax, Kendra, Amaya, Wells, Rory, Ronnie, Vandal (when he was after Rip), Ras

Tier 4 (Characters the shows could eliminate right now & I would not be upset) - Cisco, Wild Dog, Curtis, Dig Jr, Hawkman, James/Jimmy, Evelyn.

Poor Laurel & Nyssa, they fell from higher tiers after the hacket jobs on them in s3 and have yet to recover.

Edited March 11, 2017 by kismet
forgot red pen

[TwistedandBored]

14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

She was uber hot though!

 

11 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It probably helps when in human form your ship looks like this.

Yeah. She really was hot and she had tons of chemistry with Rip. I just like Gideon's interaction with all of them. 

It sort of canon now that Rip is into his spaceship. LMAO! I love this stupid show. 

[Proteus]

9 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I have to give them credit Rip/Gideon is a very effective way to prevent/stall Rip/Sara or Rip/anyone else.

I hope not. I think CL and AD have shown tons of chemistry. Even in this most recent episode. 

I do wonder if eventually Gideon will get a body.

[kismet]

Watched Suicide Squad and it was entertaining & fun. I will say going in with no to low expectations and not paying a single penny to watch it probably helps it.

The music in the movie, was amazing. They should have just stuck with badass montages with cool music and bypass the how siblings taking over the world plot. That was where the movie went off the rails for me. Although it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be after all the reviews. I think the whole ensemble has potential to be great, I just think they chose the wrong main plot. The whole end of the world at sibling mystical artifacts come to life is a little overdone. Perhaps the sequel will be better.

I will say I absolutely despised the Joker & Harley romance. While it was a fascinating backstory, keeping it in the present day drove a weird wedge in the movie for me. I also didn't enjoy that they also dropped special moments for Deadshot & HQ, which made me wonder am I supposed to think a triangle is happening? It just distracted from the story, and not in way to cover for all of the problems with the main plot. It was like bad commercials interrupting the movie.

Viola Davis was a disappointment. I really loved some of her scenes, but a lot fell flat for me. Doubt it was her fault, since the writing for her seemed wonky. I have watched VD for years, and I really believe that she probably did the best she could. I think she was a good pick for the role, I just think the writing needed some tweaking.

I credit the casting, because I do think they did a good job. Everyone seemed to fit their part. It was nice seeing a lot of people from shows I enjoy. I saw actors from Mindy Project, Orphan Black, House of Cards, BATB, True Blood, Newsroom and of course Common. I really wish they had spent more time on the whole ensemble story than shifting it to the Delelvigne part, which was the weakest part.

[Starfish35]

17 hours ago, TwistedandBored said:

Let me just say that I did not watch the last episode of Legends when I wrote Rip Hunter and Gideon as one of favorite Flarrowverse duo. 

Seriously, I don't even know what to think after the last episode. I mean I guess a man can really love his ship like that? So weird when you think about it. lol

Yeah I loved seeing Gideon in human form, but that was just a bit too weird for me.  And I loved The Doctor's Wife (when I didn't think too hard about the poor girl who had her brain scooped out so the TARDIS could be put in), so I don't know why I wasn't a fan. 

1 hour ago, Proteus said:

I hope not. I think CL and AD have shown tons of chemistry. Even in this most recent episode. 

I do wonder if eventually Gideon will get a body.

I am a little surprised at how much of a Rip/Sara shipper I've become this season after adamantly opposing it last season.

[TwistedandBored]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah I loved seeing Gideon in human form, but that was just a bit too weird for me.  And I loved The Doctor's Wife (when I didn't think too hard about the poor girl who had her brain scooped out so the TARDIS could be put in), so I don't know why I wasn't a fan. 

I am a little surprised at how much of a Rip/Sara shipper I've become this season after adamantly opposing it last season.

It was weird. I was yelling, "Don't kiss" when I saw where the scene was headed. I would have liked them to have left that scene a little vague. Seriously, though both Rip and Sara think Gideon is hot. So, Gideon can be the third wheel in whatever they do with RipSara. 

I on the other hand liked Cold and Sara and missed their scenes. 

[Starfish35]

I was more of a Cold/Sara shipper last season, and I was pretty strongly opposed to Rip/Sara.  But I don't know.  Somehow the change in dynamics this season has pushed my shipping buttons.  I'm interested to see if that continues now that he's back on the ship.  

13 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

It was weird. I was yelling, "Don't kiss" when I saw where the scene was headed. I would have liked them to have left that scene a little vague.

Yes, I agree.  

[TwistedandBored]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

I was more of a Cold/Sara shipper last season, and I was pretty strongly opposed to Rip/Sara.  But I don't know.  Somehow the change in dynamics this season has pushed my shipping buttons.  I'm interested to see if that continues now that he's back on the ship.  

Yes, I agree.  

I do think they sort of elevated Rip and Sara's relationship this season. Hell, this season has done a great job in making both Ray and Rip likable cause last season I was tired of both of them. However, the chemistry between Rip and Sara just can't over come their chemistry with others. Plus, I am really enjoying Sara and all her flings with different Queens from each era. 

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

 

I am a little surprised at how much of a Rip/Sara shipper I've become this season after adamantly opposing it last season.

I became open to the possibility after accepting that Snart will never return for real.

25 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

I do think they sort of elevated Rip and Sara's relationship this season. Hell, this season has done a great job in making both Ray and Rip likable cause last season I was tired of both of them. However, the chemistry between Rip and Sara just can't over come their chemistry with others. Plus, I am really enjoying Sara and all her flings with different Queens from each era. 

I'm actually not enjoying that anymore. I feel like TPTB are making Saras sexuality a running joke.

[statsgirl]

10 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I'm actually not enjoying that anymore. I feel like TPTB are making Saras sexuality a running joke.

Same here.  It loses any power it has when it becomes a running joke and at this point, it seems like any attractive woman, Sara is attracted to.  She's becoming the equivalent of pre-island Ollie.

[Starfish35]

I do think it's starting to get a bit old, yeah.  There's more to Sara than just romancing the ladies of every era.

[TwistedandBored]

I do think there is more to Sara then romancing different Queens from each era and the show does a good job of showing that as well. She is the Captain of the group and each week we see her grow as a leader. This doesn't mean she can't have fun once while being an amazing leader. 

[kismet]

I think the biggest problem is that they don't follow through with any of the relationships or they don't make it feel like she is doing it on purpose as part of the mission. So it just sort of makes her look like she falls in lust too easily or is so desperately looking for love that the minute she sees another female she needs to jump bones. Both are not a good look on anyone.

I have no problem with SL having some fun. I just wish it amounted to more than what feels like a running joke. Perhaps just have her miss her former crushes or have her hard pass on an attractive female she sees on a mission. On a more global note for the show, I also don't understand the need to get their flirt on in every mission. I could see it if they were using it as part of their mission tactics, but that is not always the case.

SL as a quality leader is completely unquestionable. She is proving that she is learning to become a better leader every week. Her flirting with every female doesn't necessarily distract me from that, it just makes me a little sad for the character and slightly disappointed in that part of the writing. 

[FurryFury]

I was always partial to Rip/Sara (last season's finale pretty much made me ship it), and this season does nothing to dissuade this, especially with their counterparts being King Arthur and Guinevere (even if it was implied their marriage was more political). And the show actually remembered Sara isn't only into girls, so well, maybe there's hope yet. I do think they have good chemistry (not off the charts, but certainly good enough), but it depends on whether they'll really make Rip/Gideon a thing or if it was just an homage to Doctor Who (which is entirely possible). And, of course, whether Rip survives the season (although it would be a shame to get rid of him now, he has a lot more going on after the brainwashing thing, and AD clearly showed his chops).

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

SL as a quality leader is completely unquestionable. She is proving that she is learning to become a better leader every week. Her flirting with every female doesn't necessarily distract me from that, it just makes me a little sad for the character and slightly disappointed in that part of the writing. 

It becomes problematic to me when you combine it with what we know of Sara in Arrow s2 who was essentially someone with a lot of self-loathing because of her years at the LoA, followed by healing and a serious committed relationship with Nyssa.  Then dying and being revived in the Lazarus Pit which led to a time when she couldn't connect emotionally to anyone much less a love partner.

So I do think that it's become an in-joke for the writers, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, that Sara is not just attracted to these women but has sex with them even in the middle of a mission (e.g. Marie Antoinette).  But if anything, that's the shallow pre-Gambit Sara, ready to tumble any queen she can, not the Sara who went through ten years of relative hell.  It just doesn't track for me.

[bijoux]

I don't watch the show, so this is based on Arrow and the comments here, but is it possible that Sara is still struggling with the side effects of the Lazarus pit and these hook ups reflect that?

[Sakura12]

I don't mind the flirting so much because I think Sara gives off an aura of flirting even when she's not meaning too. It's the lustful looks at every hot woman that starting to bother me a bit. I give the Gideon one a pass because I'd be surprised at what human Gideon looked like too. They actually mentioned out loud that she was Bisexual so that's something I guess. 

Although I can see Sara not really interested in a long term relationship right now, she's got a lot going on. But she enjoys flirting and sex and kind of uses that to not feel anything else. With traveling through time she can be with someone knowing it will be a one time thing and not have to worry about feelings. 

[Proteus]

12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Same here.  It loses any power it has when it becomes a running joke and at this point, it seems like any attractive woman, Sara is attracted to.  She's becoming the equivalent of pre-island Ollie.

 I feel like TBTB think they have to remind viewers every episode that Sara likes girls just to make sure she keeps her LGBT status. It's like they don't get we don't have to be reminded of it over and over for her sexuality to remain the same.

 

12 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I do think it's starting to get a bit old, yeah.  There's more to Sara than just romancing the ladies of every era.

I think they do give Sara a lot beyond that. It's just that when it comes to Sara and relationships, they don't know how to write for her properly.

[tv echo]

Iron Fist is currently averaging 14% with critics at RottenTomatoes.com. Here's the Vulture review...

The Lesson of Marvel’s Iron Fist: Superhero Fiction Needs to Change or Die
By Abraham Riesman  March 9, 2017
http://www.vulture.com/2017/03/marvels-iron-fist-proves-superheroes-must-change-or-die.html

Quote

... The powers that be, led by the division’s clever and effective chief, Jeph Loeb, could easily have plucked out the few things that do make the character distinctive, then discarded all the rest. They could have built something vaguely familiar but excitingly new. Of course, this is not the path Marvel Television chose.

Instead, we’re stuck with a show that feels disappointingly rote, despite a few charms. There’s precious little here that we haven’t seen before, and in an entertainment landscape saturated with superhero storytelling, that’s both a crippling flaw and an unforced error. If those who stir superhero brews onscreen want to save the genre from the very real threat of stagnation, the greatest lesson they can draw from Iron Fist is this: Reverence to comic-book source material is often a losing strategy.
*  *  *
Reverence is overrated, and superhero fiction has demonstrated why plenty of times in the past. Hawkeye used to be a colorful goofball with a criminal past until he was reinvented as a leather-clad black-ops veteran in a comics series called The Ultimates, which led to his successful screen incarnation in The Avengers. The aforementioned Bucky was a cheerful kid who was dead as a doornail after a World War II accident, until he was revamped as a troubled adult assassin to great acclaim and success. Batman used to carry guns. Back in the day, Superman wasn’t able to fly. The first dudes to bear the names the Flash and Green Lantern retired and were replaced by completely different people with different personalities and backstories.
*  *  *
It may have seemed fine to crank out another Marvel Netflix show that feels like the brand’s past outings, but the critical drubbing that Iron Fist has received is in no small part due to the fact that it’s so stale and unoriginal. The reason the Marvel Cinematic Universe succeeded initially was because it offered a bevy of ideas and characters that were somewhat familiar, but also fresh and unlike anything else we’d seen in superhero filmmaking. That mix of comfortingly old and boldly new is necessary for any brand — or, indeed, any genre — to go the distance. The failure of Iron Fist should serve as a cautionary tale: It’s a time to change or die, and whichever studio learns it doesn’t always have to maintain a white-knuckle grip on what’s been done before will be the one that pulls ahead. Reimagination is just as important as imagination in superhero fiction. It’s time to stop fearing it.

Edited March 12, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

20 Years Later, Buffy the Vampire Slayer Is Still the Best Superhero Show
BY JOSHUA RIVERA   March 10, 2017
http://www.gq.com/story/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-superhero-show

Quote

... This is especially odd because, 20 years ago, we were given the blueprint for how to make a great superhero series: Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
*  *  *
... Buffy, creator Joss Whedon and his many collaborators quickly discovered, was an incredibly flexible show, because a young heroine's battles against vampires and demons and superpowers weren't the point. The point was what those battles represented: a young woman with the power, and the burden of leadership, to fight against the darkness that preyed on others that looked like her. They weren't just adventures, they were blueprints. For never giving up, for learning how to be responsible for someone else, for warding away the casual cruelty and selfishness that can creep in as you enter into adulthood.

Of course, we look back today at Buffy with the benefit of hindsight, where critics at the time may not have been as effusively on board or willing to engage with the show on its own terms. But there isn't ever a moment in the 144 episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that isn't exceedingly forthright in expressing in its mission. It's as clear-eyed in its ambitions as Spider-Man stories are with their mantra of power and responsibility. Which most modern superhero shows, strangely, aren't. The Green Arrow and Daredevil seethe about saving their city, for example. The Flash helps people because it's the right thing to do, but often merely races to solve problems he's caused. Perhaps the TV hero that comes closest is Supergirl, who is surrounded by a cast of characters that believe in and embody specific ideals about how we are stronger together, and that goodness and decency are the only ways to fight hatred and intolerance.

Buffy was ahead of its time in a lot of ways, and it nailed what it meant to be a superhero from the very start. Now, superheroes are everywhere, but they're all playing catchup to a young woman named Buffy Summers.

Edited March 12, 2017 by tv echo

[MariaHill]

48 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Iron Fist is currently averaging 14% with critics at RottenTomatoes.com. Here's the Vulture review...

The Lesson of Marvel’s Iron Fist: Superhero Fiction Needs to Change or Die
By Abraham Riesman  March 9, 2017
http://www.vulture.com/2017/03/marvels-iron-fist-proves-superheroes-must-change-or-die.html

Reverence to comic-book source material is often a losing strategy

Preach, Abe. 

Also, yikes at the panicky comic-book dude--and racist--comments to that article. 

[feverfew]

13 hours ago, bijoux said:

I don't watch the show, so this is based on Arrow and the comments here, but is it possible that Sara is still struggling with the side effects of the Lazarus pit and these hook ups reflect that?

I think maybe that is giving the show a bit too much credit. It's a fun little show and I love it to bits, but it's not really doing those heavier storylines*. Also - and I know the producers of Arrowverse are very proud of their crossovers - I don't think TPTB for LoT want too much background from the other shows influencing theirs.

*Let's see what's going to happen with Rip. AD is a good enough actor to handle it, but angst is not really in the cards for LoT, I think - and I wouldn't really want it to be, either.

[tv echo]

Currently, MB is leading with 40%, GG and SA are tied for second place, and CL is in last place...

USD POLL : Who is the best main lead on DC CW TV shows?
Posted by Raina at March 13, 2017 
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/03/usd-poll-who-is-best-main-lead-on-dc-cw.html

[treasaigh]

My issue with Sara and her hookups/flirting is that all the action is women, but other than Oliver, the words are bisexual.  And since I believe if she is going to have a long term relationship on the show it's going to be with a man, I need to see her attracted to a man every once in a while.  I adored Snart/Sara, but other than the kiss (as he's dying) I read it as her tolerating his flirting more than reciprocating.  Could she be interested in women as hookups and men as relationships?  Sure, but we have Nyssa.  Right now it feels more like Oliver is that one special guy, but she's really, she's really into women.  Which is awesome.  It just feels a bit like baiting if when it's time for her to settle down it's with a guy after all the women she's been with.  That could be interpreted as saying dime things about bisexual women I'm not sure they are really trying to say.

[tv echo]

Rolling Stone mag just published this scathing review...

'Iron Fist': Why Netflix's New Marvel Show Is a Kick in the Head
By Rob Sheffield  March 13, 2017
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/rob-sheffield-iron-fist-kicks-superhero-tv-in-the-head-w471575

Quote

... The show follows in the Netflix Marvel house style, a world away from other adaptations like FX's excellent new Legion or ABC's durable Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., darker and more brooding than the CW's zesty pop-flash squad of DC crimefighters like Arrow. It's also, unfortunately, way too tedious to keep up the pace. This hippie tool wouldn't last five minutes in a cage match with the Young Pope.
*  *  *
Finn Jones, a.k.a. Margaery Tyrell's brother Loras from Game of Thrones, plays Danny as a case of a secret identity that might be just too well disguised – because he's so totally devoid of charisma, more cub than lone wolf. With his scruffy beard and dazed "who, me?" eyes, Jones could be one of the twinkling boy-men who populated Hollywood comedies a decade ago, except now the party's over and he can't understand why bad hombres keep trying to kill him. It might have been shrewd to play the hippie hacky-sack man-child angle for laughs – a kung fu avenger trapped in the body of a schlub from The Hangover Part IV: Return To Vegas. But Iron Fist has no humor either, so it ends up just looking like a superhero drama where they forgot to invite the superhero.

There are connections between all the Netflix Marvel shows – like Rosario Dawson, who returns as nurse Clare Temple. But unlike its urban do-gooder brethren, the series has no personality. Where Jessica Jones digs into sexual trauma and Luke Cage plays off the historic agony and glory of Harlem, Iron Fist's hero can't seem to muster any inner turmoil beyond the occasional harshed vibe. There doesn't seem to be much of anything going on his skull. His mystic Zen quotes go over like a Wayne's World set-up minus the punch line. Jones' Danny has a unintentionally comic way of walking away from a Daredevil-style combat scene with a hurt expression that says "Whoooa, I hate when that happens." In a perfect TV world, he'd get a Broad City crossover episode where Danny and Abbi have a romantic date with some cosmic brownies and Phish bootlegs. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by tv echo

[KirkB]

53 minutes ago, tracyly said:

My issue with Sara and her hookups/flirting is that all the action is women, but other than Oliver, the words are bisexual.  And since I believe if she is going to have a long term relationship on the show it's going to be with a man, I need to see her attracted to a man every once in a while.  I adored Snart/Sara, but other than the kiss (as he's dying) I read it as her tolerating his flirting more than reciprocating.  Could she be interested in women as hookups and men as relationships?  Sure, but we have Nyssa.  Right now it feels more like Oliver is that one special guy, but she's really, she's really into women.  Which is awesome.  It just feels a bit like baiting if when it's time for her to settle down it's with a guy after all the women she's been with.  That could be interpreted as saying dime things about bisexual women I'm not sure they are really trying to say.

I'm of two minds about Sara's relationship with Nyssa. We have no idea about the circumstances of their getting together. And while Nyssa clearly loved, and as far as I know still is in love with, Sara I'm not sure whether what Sara felt toward her was actually love or some sort of gratitude out of her being the only bright spot during her (Sara's) time with the League.

As for the word bisexual, bear in mind it was uttered by Nate, not Sara. He may consider her bisexual (which is weird in itself, since he's only ever seen her flirt with women, and I don't think he knows about her kiss with Snart) but we don't know what Sara herself thinks. She may see herself as bisexual, or predominantly gay but with an Oliver Queen exception.

Edited March 13, 2017 by KirkB
Because Starfish35 has a better memory than me.

[Starfish35]

Actually it was Nate, not Mick.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Starfish35

[KirkB]

Was it? Sorry, my bad. But is my point off? He's only ever seen her flirt with women either. And we still don't actually have Sara's view, which is the only one that really matters.

Edited March 13, 2017 by KirkB

[treasaigh]

Sara herself has said she "prefers" girls.  I don't think we're supposed to be looking too deeply into this.  Sara is bisexual with a preference with girls.  Great.  My issue is what will they do when it's time to pair her up for a long term relationship?  If they are going to have that be a man, there should be at least the hint of interest in men before that.  Other than Oliver.  Otherwise this becomes a woman still has to settle down with a guy.  That's not a great thing to say about bisexual women.  

 

I should have put this in Sara's thread.  Sorry!

[Starfish35]

No, I get what you're saying.  I was just pointing out that it was Nate, in the conversation with Ray about Amaya.  Ray told him that he'd dated someone on the ship before (meaning Kendra) and Nate asked if it was Sara, and then added something about "I know she's bisexual."  How he knows that is the question, but I guess I just saw it as the writers throwing a bone to those who'd been upset about Sara's bisexuality being erased.  Either that or reminding the audience of it so it wouldn't be a shock if they intend to put her with a male character soon. 

[Sakura12]

Considering Sara just acted like Rip killing her is no big deal. I don't expect them to deal with too much angst on LoT. I know he was brainwashed, but that doesn't mean Sara has no thoughts about being murdered again. 

That seems to be a running joke with her too. Oh no they killed Sara, never mind she's back. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

Sara is very much the Kenny of the Arrowverse.

[statsgirl]

17 minutes ago, tracyly said:

Sara herself has said she "prefers" girls.

Was that said at any other time than in the alien dream world?  I don't put much credence in that time because it was clearly said to re-do and erase the Oliver/Sara hook-up in the past.

The EPs have been careful not to define Sara's sexuality in interviews.  On Arrow, she seemed bisexual but on LoT, after she got her mojo back with the nurse, it almost exclusively towards women and  seems to be mostly played for the joke value.  I think it's a pity because I'd like to see a genuinely bisexual character on TV.

[Sakura12]

They had Nate say Sara was bisexual in the last episode. Not clear how he knows that though. But was the first time they labeled her sexuality on screen. 

[wonderwall]

There's a difference between labeling and showing... One kiss with Snart doesn't show her bisexuality. I hope the show isn't so gross as to erase her bisexuality. 

[treasaigh]

Like I said, my belief is that based on the show, and the writers, we aren't supposed to be looking too deeply into her sexuality.  Nor do I think they are going to be... I'm not sure what word I want here... accurate?  sensitive?  to illustrating her sexuality.  So I believe that she's bisexual with a preference for girls.  Though I do understand why people may not be sure.  That's why I think they've been focusing so much on her female/female relationships.  I suspect *they* think they are doing a good thing.  See!  Look here!  Our bisexual character actually engages in same sex relationships!  Aren't we doing something good!  Which I'll give them *some* credit.  Is it awkward?  You bet.  Is it vague?  Obviously.  There are too many ways to interpret her actions.  Is Oliver her special snowflake?  Was Nessa something real, or her only source of comfort and a bit of Stockholm syndrome?  If somehow the nurse had stuck around would that have evolved into a relationship?  Or Leonard?  To be fair, we probably don't know many of these types of questions when it comes to people we know in real life who aren't our very close friends.  Should we know more about Sara's sexuality?  I'm honestly not sure.  She is a far more interesting character than just her sexuality, so in that regard I don't care as much.  That being said, if after all this time she ends up with Rip, Leonard, or Mick (yes, I was totally afraid they were going to go there for a while), there's going to be a somewhat justifiable outcry that they've thrown out all her queer relationships for a "normal" relationship.  Cause you know, it's all about settling down with a dude.  I can hear it now.

[Starfish35]

Eh.  I guess I'm a cynic, because I really doubt there'd be much of an outcry at all.  If Sara was in a popular relationship with a woman, and they broke that off to put her with a man, then yes, there'd be an outcry.  But right now Sara's not in a relationship at all, and if you go to AO3, the most popular pairing for her, by far, is still Sara/Snart.  So I don't think there's this huge fandom demand for her to be put with a woman.  Now if a female character comes along that is more than a guest star and that she has chemistry with, all bets are off.  But right now that doesn't exist.  

[treasaigh]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

There's a difference between labeling and showing... One kiss with Snart doesn't show her bisexuality. I hope the show isn't so gross as to erase her bisexuality. 

I was going to write something, and then realized I think we agree.  :)

If Sara is bisexual, I think we need to *see* her being bisexual.  Even if it's just an attraction to men.  Have we seen her show any interest in *any* man other than Oliver, ever? A hey he's cute.  I wouldn't kick him out of bed for eating crackers...  Anything?

The one deathbed kiss with Leonard, that I agree doesn't have much to say about her sexuality since the guy was literally dying.  I think of that moment and see Spike, Buffy, I love you, and no you don't but thank you for saying it.  I enjoyed Snart's flirting with her, but I never saw her reciprating the feelings.  Could it have been a play to keep him interested?  I guess, but that seems too complicated.  Sara's a straight forward kind of a gal.  If she wanted him I think she would have had him.

If Oliver is supposed to be special, then let's own that, and make sure that whoever she ends up is a woman.  But anyone seriously think they will resist the temptation to putting Sara with a guy?  But hey, who knows.  Maybe they will.  Or Sara will never settle down with a guy.  Ha.  Shipping is too important for engagement.  They won't leave Sara alone forever.

Actually would would they leave alone at the end of it all?  Ray?  Nope.  He'll end up with some character to be named later.  Mick?  Maybe.  Jax?  Totally possible, though not probable.  Rip?  Possible.  I suspect he's either going to end up alone or with Sara.  Nate?  I think they are going to figure out a way for Nate to be what's her names grandfather personally.  Amaya?  We already know the answer to that one.  She's got a granddaughter to produce.

[KirkB]

I don't think anyone on the ship is really looking to settle down. Their lives are too chaotic. The subject only came up once, with Ray and Kendra, and that was only because they were stuck in the 1950's, and even then Ray was way more invested in it than Kendra. I don't think Nate and Amaya see themselves as doing anything but hooking up. Sara doesn't seem to be too interested in getting a boyfriend or a girlfriend, right now it's just getting...uh, well you know, anyone she meets while traveling (be it the nurse, Guinevere or whoever) can't be anything but short term at best since she's going to be leaving the time period. If she were going to get serious with anyone it would have to be someone on the ship. Nate and Amaya are occupied, and Stein is married, so that just leaves Rip, Ray, Jax and Mick. So unless/until they introduce another female team member, or have Amaya change her interests, if they want Sara to get with anyone on the ship right now it HAS to be a guy, regardless of her bisexuality leaning toward women.

[Starfish35]

Yeah, the setup of the show pretty much demands that if there's going to be actual pairings, that it has to be between teammates. 

[treasaigh]

Not necessarily.  Stein has his wife at home.  Significant others could be off screen most of the time.  Granted it's not much of a relationship as the show goes.  But it is a possibility.  I could see them going that route for one or two of the teammates.

[Oreo2234]

I would prefer they keep the romance between the teammates to a minimum. So far I've found the teammate romances annoying. I'm fine with Sara, Ray,Nate etc. just getting the occasional love interest of the week instead.

[Velocity23]

The season finale dates for CW shows

LOT : April 4th at 8 PM

Supergirl; 22nd May 8 PM

Flash:  23rd May 8PM

Arrow 24th May 8 PM

[way2interested]

So there will probably be a three week break after 518 of Arrow? Or maybe they'll split a break between 518 to 519 and 520 to 521? And I guess the same for Flash?

[Velocity23]

i think 2 week break after 5x18 and then 1 week break for 5x19 so that the 5x20 - 5x23 episodes will be in may sweeps. 24th May is the last day of sweeps. 

[way2interested]

30 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

i think 2 week break after 5x18 and then 1 week break for 5x19 so that the 5x20 - 5x23 episodes will be in may sweeps. 24th May is the last day of sweeps. 

They've left x20 out of sweeps before, and I don't see them taking a break, airing an episode, and then taking another break, but I can see them separating it out 516-518, 2 week break, 519-520, 1 week break, 521-523, or vice versa.

[Velocity23]

That was before they started to air the episodes all the way through sweeps. 

Last year they aired 

4x18 on April 6th

4x19 on April 27th

4x20 on May 4th

4x21 on May 11th

4x22 on May 18th

4x23 on May 25th

 

So i would imagine something similar for this year. They just gonna air as much episode in may sweeps as they can 

[Starfish35]

So based on that I'll guess a three week break after 5.18.  Come back with 5.19 on the 26th and air five in a row. 

[Velocity23]

3 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

So based on that I'll guess a three week break after 5.18.  Come back with 5.19 on the 26th and air five in a row. 

Most likely. I already figured late season finale for Flash and Arrow after Flash revealed the exact date Iris is supposed to die. 

[Starfish35]

Oh did they? I'd missed that somehow.