Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Starfish35]

What I find funny about this is NO ONE is going to be upset when Captain America: Civil War is as much Tony's movie if not more than Cap's.

Actually I've seen quite a few Captain America fans upset that they basically turned CA3 into Avengers 2.5.

[wingster55]

Zack Snyder is a comic book fan, making comic movies for other comic book fans. He made 300 and Watchmen adhering very closely to the source material, and I guess WB likes that sort of thing? (And probably because they asked Christopher Nolan first and he turned them down. :P)

 

While do I think that people are better off watching and enjoying a movie they know they're going to enjoy and not letting the critics' opinions sway them, I disagree with your premise that critics "don't get" blockbusters. Here's a sampling of Rotten Tomato ratings for the most recent superhero movies:

 

Deadpool: 84%

Star Wars: Episode VII- 90%

Age of Ultron: 84%

Guardians of the Galaxy: 91%

Winter Soldier: 89%

Iron Man 3: 79%

Avengers: 92%

Dark Knight Rises: 87%

The Dark Knight: 94%

Batman Begins: 85%

Man of Steel: 56%

That's a small sample of blockbusters...I don't have anything concrete but IIRC but I recall the reviews of movies like the Fast and Furious to be a bit damning. I put more stock in what people I actually know say. In my real life it's been all positive.

Plus, I disagree with a lot of those ratings.

Edited March 23, 2016 by wingster55

[dtissagirl]

Actually I've seen quite a few Captain America fans upset that they basically turned CA3 into Avengers 2.5.

 

*raises hand* I'm super upset about turning Cap3 into an Avengers fight each other movie that'll revert character development that happened in Cap2 and IM3 -- I just don't talk about it, because it's super upsetting.

[lemotomato]

That's a small sample of blockbusters...I don't have anything concrete but IIRC but I recall the reviews of movies like the Fast and Furious to be a bit damning.

Why? I actually enjoy the F&F franchise (physics defying car stunts? yes please!), but I'm not going to say they're empirically good movies in terms of characterization, plot, and acting. Some blockbusters are enjoyable to the audience (which shows in how much money they make) and are good movies. Those get good reviews. Some make a lot of money, but have poor plot, dialogue, and pacing. (See: most Michael Bay movies.) Those get bad reviews. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by lemotomato

[NumberCruncher]

Critics are pretty receptive to big comic movies though--especially if they're Marvel-based. Every Marvel Studios movie made since the first Thor was released has had a RT score over 60%. Critics have generally been kind to DC/WB productions. All 3 Dark Night movies had great reviews. FOX's X-Men movies have generally been well received (5 of 7 released have high RT scores). Deadpool is also a critical success so I don't see any particular bias by critics here in terms of big comic blockbusters. Zack Snyder, on the other hand, is probably the key factor. Most of his movies (not just the DC ones) tend to get slapped by critics.

Edited March 23, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Starfish35]

*raises hand* I'm super upset about turning Cap3 into an Avengers fight each other movie that'll revert character development that happened in Cap2 and IM3 -- I just don't talk about it, because it's super upsetting.

Yeah I'm not happy about it either. :(

[quarks]

Ok, then looking at other blockbusters (based on Box Office Mojo) on Rotten Tomatoes:

 

Avatar: 83%

Titanic: 88%

Star Wars: The Force Awakens: 92%

Jurassic World: 72%

The Avengers: 92%

Furious 7: 81%

Avengers: Age of Ultron: 75%

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows, Part 2: 96%  (wow)

Frozen: 89%

Minions: 55%

Transformers: Dark of the Moon: 35%

The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King: 95%

Skyfall: 93%

Transformers: Age of Extinction: 18%

The Dark Knight Rises: 83%

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest: 54%

Toy Story 3: 99% 

Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides: 32%

 

What I'm getting from this is that critics aren't overly fond of pirates and minions, and really hate transformers, but are otherwise pretty in sync with what audiences are willing to pay for.

 

Back to the superhero conversation: the reviews are really not encouraging me to go and see Batman vs Superman in theatres, but - Wonder Woman! Maybe I should just head to a matinee or wait to see what you guys think first.

[FurryFury]

Just to post a dissenting opinion, I was glad that Cap2 was so team-focused. I don't really care about Steve that much - he's OK, but I kinda hated Cap1, except for Peggy. A pretty forgettable movie. TWS, on another hand, was really awesome, probably one of my favorites in MCU. I'm really looking forward to Civil War.

 

As for the ratings, holy shit, 0.9 for AoS? Guess I'm not the only one to stop watching. (I liked season 2 a lot, but season 3 bored me to tears with the exception of that Simmons-centric - too bad it didn't matter at all). They really should scrap the plans for the spin-off, it's going to be DoA. 

 

PS 93% for freakin' Skyfall? WHAAAAT?

Edited March 23, 2016 by FurryFury

[Starfish35]

CA: Winter Soldier is my favorite of the MCU movies so far, but I just can't get excited about Civil War. I hate friends fighting each other. I don't get the appeal at all.

[kismet]

Is it wrong that I am a little excited the Flash's ratings dropped?? I mean I don't wish the show ill, but I really don't understand why the ratings are always so high.

 

I actually hope that Arrow's ratings stay the same. I think the core audience will return, so hopefully the ratings stay stable. It would be nice for ARROW to prove itself on a week that Flash stumbled.

[NumberCruncher]

PS 93% for freakin' Skyfall? WHAAAAT?

My sentiments exactly. I never thought they would ever turn James Bond into a mopey manpaining mess until I saw that movie.

[dtissagirl]

CA: Winter Soldier is my favorite of the MCU movies so far, but I just can't get excited about Civil War. I hate friends fighting each other. I don't get the appeal at all.

 

This is my least favorite of ALL superhero tropes: who can win in a fight?

 

I DO NOT CARE WHO CAN WIN IN A FIGHT BECAUSE I HATE FIGHTING.

[FurryFury]

I don't think this movie will be just about friends fighting each other.

 

Also, I don't mind friends fighting each other if it doesn't show one of them as 100% wrong and is well-written. Granted, it may not be, but I'm willing to trust these writers.

[dtissagirl]

I don't mind stories that put friends in opposite sides. But friends violently punching each other has negative interest to me. I don't care who's stronger, or who's faster, or any other contest you can think of with superheroes. I don't wanna watch anything of that sort. I feel the same way about Bats v Supes, because all of my fave of their stories are when they're working together and balancing each other out.

 

I actually *adore* that Arrow/Flash not only made it a bonding experience, but left it open to my interpretation who could win their fight in last season's crossover. That was perfection to me. Because I can imagine they tied, and then went out for ice cream.

Edited March 23, 2016 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

I liked the Thor/Cap/Tony fight in Avengers. It was kind of weirdly non-violent, sort of funny and impressive, and they weren't friends yet so it worked. Plus it also kind of ended in a draw. I have pretty much no interest in the new CA movie bc IMO the Civil War storyline from the comics is stupid, and yeah, I don't want to see them fighting each other. I LOVE fight scenes, but not friends fighting in a serious way and by choice. I am not sure I'll ever watch it, and I'm definitely not picking a side. I pretty much love them all.

 

ZERO interest in BvS. Looks like a horrible crapfest to me, and I loathed Man of Steel. Hopefully that guy doesn't direct Wonder Woman.

Edited March 23, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[tv echo]

I will be seeing BvS this weekend, so I'll let you know what I think (for what it's worth).  

 

I've read several critics and audience reviews at Rotten Tomatoes for various movies and here's my takeaway: If the critics agree with you, then they're smart, independent thinkers who write what they want.  If the critics disagree with you, then they're dumb, part of a herd mentality, and paid by other studios (the studio) to bash (praise) the movie.

 

If tonight's episode of Arrow has low(er) ratings, then won't it just be consistent with the general trend of ratings going down whenever Oliver & Felicity's relationship hits a road block?

Edited March 23, 2016 by tv echo

[lemotomato]

ZERO interest in BvS. Looks like a horrible crapfest to me, and I loathed Man of Steel. Hopefully that guy doesn't direct Wonder Woman.

Patty Jenkins (who directed Monster) is directing Wonder Woman. 

[AyChihuahua]

Patty Jenkins (who directed Monster) is directing Wonder Woman. 

Oh thank GOD.

[dtissagirl]

Last year there was a full summary of what was supposed to be the script for Civil War floating around, and I read it and liked it, but at the time I assumed it was a complete fake. But now there's some evidence that it might be legit. The movie opens here some 10 days before the US, so, damn my curiosity, I'm gonna go see it so I can spoil my group of online fangirls. Someone's gotta do the dirty job.

[nksarmi]

Actually I've seen quite a few Captain America fans upset that they basically turned CA3 into Avengers 2.5.

 

That's good to know because while I'm looking forward to the movie - I do think it kind of sucks that this will probably be the last Captain America movie and it isn't HIS movie.

 

But I do get the sense that Marvel is generally better received than DC in the movieverse. I think they have earned that to a certain extent, but I also believe that DC will get criticized for things Marvel has gotten a pass on.  The constant complain that Batman has taken over the Superman sequel just gets me because DC has said they will do a Superman sequel and this isn't it.

 

For my part, I'm glad that it looks like Wonder Woman has a bigger role than I thought she would AND that people like her.  I read nothing but bitching about her for like a year after the actress was cast and I am so very glad that worm has turned.

Edited March 23, 2016 by nksarmi

[dtissagirl]

The greatest difference for me is I feel Marvel makes movies in which the protagonists happen to be superheroes. DC makes straight up superhero movies.

But also, Marvel earned the leeway, and then some. I thought Age of Ultron was an awul movie made out of pettiness and hubris, but I'm willing to skip it because I genuinelly loved some half a dozen movies building up to that. Although pretty shaken by Ultron, I have some remaining trust in the competence of the writers steering the Marvelverse. I have an emotional attachment to these characters that was earned in the previous movies. I care about their relationships. And I adore the chosen tone, and visual palette of the movies.

The DC verse is steered by two dudes I've thought were complete hacks before they were ever hired. Snyder and Goyer are my idea of what bad movies are made of. And they've chosen both an emotional tone and a visual palette that are mooring, unpleasant, and depressing. So, yeah. I have no reason to give them any leeway whatsoever.

[tv echo]

Warning - rest of article (not quoted) is a little spoilery...

 

‘Supergirl’ Meets ‘The Flash’: Stars Take Us Behind the Scenes on the Crossover (EXCLUSIVE)
Laura Prudom  MARCH 22, 2016 | 02:45PM PT
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/supergirl-the-flash-crossover-arrow-legends-of-tomorrow-grant-gustin-melissa-benoist-1201735793/

Both “Supergirl” and “The Flash” are executive produced by Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg through Warner Bros. Television and DC Entertainment, and The CW is jointly owned by Warner Bros. and CBS — which undoubtedly helped the episode jump some of the hurdles presented by an inter-network collaboration — but the crossover still required approval from WBTV boss Peter Roth, CBS topper Glenn Geller and CW head Mark Pedowitz before getting the greenlight.
*  *  *
For Pedowitz, too, it was a no-brainer, even if Benoist’s Supergirl won’t be crossing over to “The Flash” this time around. “We were always open to it if the producers could make it work,” he says. “Comic books are the ultimate crossover – that’s the nature of what they’ve been since they’ve existed, characters moving back and forth. So from my perspective, this was a great thing for all the franchises.”
*  *  *
Few fans expected that a crossover would come in “Supergirl’s” first season, but Kreisberg admits, “We’re generally not fans of waiting to do anything. We had our first big crossover on ‘Flash’ in Episode 4 when we had Felicity [“Arrow” star Emily Bett Rickards] come, so I think it just felt like ‘Supergirl’ had its sea legs under it at this point in the year and it didn’t feel like a gimmick as much as ‘this could be really good.'”
*  *  *
“It’s another stepping stone in what we all hope will be continuing to connect this whole universe and all these shows,” Gustin says of his visit to “Supergirl,” admitting that he hopes Benoist’s character can someday cross over with “The Flash,” “Arrow” and “Legends” in return.
 

“That would be so ideal, and I think that’s the goal, but I do not make those decisions — I just hope it happens,” he says.
 

The people making those decisions are a little more circumspect, but the door remains open. “We never want to say never to anything,” says Kreisberg. “I think if it’s successful and it works well and there’s an audience for it and people are excited by the prospect, we’re always game.”
 

Adds Geller, “We are open to all kinds of great stories. I’m happy to hear anything Greg and Andrew want to do, and I’m sure they know that. Who’s to say if there isn’t more of this in the future?”
 

Finding an organic way to tell such a story without it seeming like a stunt is the priority for all parties, according to Pedowitz: “If Greg and his team can make it work in a way that makes sense, we at The CW are open to it.”

Edited March 23, 2016 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

To be honest, Age of Ultron soured me on the MCU more than I'd like to admit. I've watched all of the MCU movies, and some were better than others, but AoU just bothered me. It really did.

I've only watched it once. I should watch it again sometime, I suppose, to see if my reaction is so negative the second time.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

I can't believe it's worse than Man of Steel. How/Why?

nksarmi, on 23 Mar 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

But you weren't promised that and I think this is why people won't like the movie.  They went in expecting one thing even though it was billed as something else.  DC has been adamant that Man of Steel 2 is coming and this is NOT a Superman sequel.

 

 

I liked a lot that was going on in MoS and the problems I had with it, I was able to set aside because AT THE TIME they WERE already promising a superman sequel and I put a lot of hope in that movie to get the characterization that was sorely lacking in MoS. 

 

Then suddenly plans changed and Bats was added but still at first it was supposed to be Superman's movie and then a little more time passed and it became pretty clear that it was both Superman and Batman's movie and now I feel like I've found out that it is actually Batman's movie and Superman has some stuff too.  I mean for goodness sake, they redid the scene where 

Bruce's parents are killed. Again. For the millionth time. EVERYBODY knows how Bruce Wayne's parents were killed. If it's not an origin story, don't put it in again. Sigh.

 

It's not even that I'm upset about another Batman movie.  I like Batman, it just that I didn't need more character development on Batman, Superman needed it, badly, and I feel like no one is going to connect to Superman if they don't address this problem and it seems like this movie was the last chance they had to do it and now it will be years before they ever give him his own sequel and it will be too late by then.  

[NumberCruncher]

Holy shizzle, Batman! I saw a rather scathing blog post someone pointed out over on the BvS thread and found this gem as I was reading for sheer entertainment value:

http://moviebob.blogspot.com/2016/03/review-batman-v-superman-dawn-of.html

 

...at one point Affleck

strips down to his slacks for a ROCKY IV training montage that mainly involves pounding on a bus tire with a sledgehammer because how can we be expected to respect Bruce Wayne if we don’t know that his CrossFit WODs are mad legit bruh??

I....*backs away slowly while trying to contain laughter*

Edited March 23, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[calliope1975]

Regarding that spoiler by NumberCruncher - the impact of Arrow. :D

 

After reading a few reviews, I'm going to go ahead and wait on BvS. I do look forward to what people here have to say about it. 

[dtissagirl]

To be honest, Age of Ultron soured me on the MCU more than I'd like to admit. I've watched all of the MCU movies, and some were better than others, but AoU just bothered me. It really did.

I've only watched it once. I should watch it again sometime, I suppose, to see if my reaction is so negative the second time.

I did that -- I bought tickets to two different days before it even premiered -- and the second viewing only made me angrier.

I do rewatch the party scene a lot, though.

[NumberCruncher]

Regarding that spoiler by NumberCruncher - the impact of Arrow. :D

Well I guess in this particular instance, nobody can accuse Arrow of being the knockoff. Hee!

[dtissagirl]

Holy shizzle, Batman! I saw a rather scathing blog post someone pointed out over on the BvS thread and found this gem as I was reading for sheer entertainment value:http://moviebob.blogspot.com/2016/03/review-batman-v-superman-dawn-of.html

Oh my god thanks for posting that. It's the first full-spoilers summary I've seen. Oh my god. HAHAHAHAHA. I'm almost sad now that I can't go see it this weekend because I made other plans.

[tv echo]

Some Arrow mentions in this article...

 

DC Movies vs. DC TV: Dawn of Warring Justice Leagues
By Allyson Johnson on March 22, 2016
http://theyoungfolks.com/film/dc-movies-vs-dc-tv-dawn-of-warring-justice-leagues/75267

If I sound mildly dismissive of the films, it’s only because they have routinely disappointed me The Dark Knight Rises onward. Man of Steel wasn’t terrible and I’ve softened on it over time but it was a great disservice to the Superman character (I don’t care what Snyder said-to read a better analysis on this, go here). On the upside, ever since of Man of Steel, DC television has continued to develop and impress. Arrow got off to a rocky, old school CW model start, where it was heavy on the soap opera relationship drama, but gained footing through its well choreographed action set pieces. The Flash is arguably the bar all superhero shows should hold themselves to, while Supergirl gave us our first leading lady superhero show (if we are discounting Peggy Carter). And, Legends of Tomorrow, while imperfect, has mastered managing an ensemble cast, something that both The Flash and  Arrow  has struggled with.
*  *  *
Arrow aside, there’s a levity in the TV shows that is often missed in the newer DC films. ...
*  *  *
While it’s unlikely we’ll ever get to see the two of them in a big screen Justice League team up, the ground work has been laid out on the TV network. Already we’ve had episodes where the Flash, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Speedy, Hawkgirl and Hawkman have teamed up to stop Vandal Savage – Supergirl and the Flash teaming up is only furthering the TV universe – building its own version of the Justice League.

Edited March 23, 2016 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

I did that -- I bought tickets to two different days before it even premiered -- and the second viewing only made me angrier.

Ah. Well maybe a rewatch isn't the best idea then. :)

[AyChihuahua]

That BvS review was hilarious. Although really,

a jar of Lex Luthor's urine is an actual plot point? Whu?!?

[BkWurm1]

Holy shizzle, Batman! I saw a rather scathing blog post someone pointed out over on the BvS thread and found this gem as I was reading for sheer entertainment value:

http://moviebob.blogspot.com/2016/03/review-batman-v-superman-dawn-of.html

 

I....*backs away slowly while trying to contain laughter*

Can't wait for the side by side Gifs.  I'm not sure whether to feel pride or embarrassment. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by BkWurm1

[NumberCruncher]

Can't for the side by side Gifs.  I'm not sure whether to feel pride or embarrassment.

Oh, Oliver's scene was plenty mocked at the time--even among the cast--so the fact that such a scene even appears in BvS is both hilarious and perplexing.

[lemotomato]

I'm amused at how IGN is getting dragged because its review wasn't 100% effusive. A 6.8/10 "OK" rating = "why is IGN still a thing?"

[nksarmi]

I liked a lot that was going on in MoS and the problems I had with it, I was able to set aside because AT THE TIME they WERE already promising a superman sequel and I put a lot of hope in that movie to get the characterization that was sorely lacking in MoS. 

 

Then suddenly plans changed and Bats was added but still at first it was supposed to be Superman's movie and then a little more time passed and it became pretty clear that it was both Superman and Batman's movie and now I feel like I've found out that it is actually Batman's movie and Superman has some stuff too.  I mean for goodness sake, they redid the scene where 

Bruce's parents are killed. Again. For the millionth time. EVERYBODY knows how Bruce Wayne's parents were killed. If it's not an origin story, don't put it in again. Sigh.

 

It's not even that I'm upset about another Batman movie.  I like Batman, it just that I didn't need more character development on Batman, Superman needed it, badly, and I feel like no one is going to connect to Superman if they don't address this problem and it seems like this movie was the last chance they had to do it and now it will be years before they ever give him his own sequel and it will be too late by then.  

 

I can totally understand every point you made here.  We were just rewatching the original Superman movie and I was like "ok, if you like this - you'd hate Man of Steel" because really - they are no where close to each other.

 

For me - I had two complaints about Man of Steel.  1. The Romance and specifically the Kiss.  What hints of romance that were in it before the ridiculus ill-time, stupid, forced kiss were ok.  But I think the kiss in Man of Steel only rates slightly higher for me than when Oliver and Laurel hooked up in season one.  It was gross but it was wrong.  And 2. the action sequence at the end needed trimming.  It just did.  It was good overall, but too much of a good thing ceases to be a good thing.

 

I can certainly see why Clark getting a movie and more development before this movie would have helped people connect with him.  BUT I like the idea of Batman reacting to the events of Man of Steel and seeing the some people love him and some people fear him response.  So I think it has loads of potential but I do understand why people wanted something different. I hope they do make a good Man of Steel sequel that develops Clark as Superman but I suspect they are going to plunge into Justice League.

 

Just hope the high heaven they don't go the New 52 route and kill Louis before we ever get to find them believable as a couple!!!!

[Genki]

But also, Marvel earned the leeway, and then some. I thought Age of Ultron was an awul movie made out of pettiness and hubris, but I'm willing to skip it because I genuinelly loved some half a dozen movies building up to that. Although pretty shaken by Ultron, I have some remaining trust in the competence of the writers steering the Marvelverse. I have an emotional attachment to these characters that was earned in the previous movies. I care about their relationships. And I adore the chosen tone, and visual palette of the movies.

 

I really really, disliked Age of Ultron and thought it was a crap movie I was so perplex about how well it was received...glad I'm not alone. I'm looking forward to CA:CW because it does have Ironman and I will be upset if it follows the Civil Wars comic story, which could possibly ruin MCV for me.

 

I guess I don't connect that strongly to what I perceive as the very moral and very uptight very American Patriotic superheroes, so Captain America and Superman are not amongst my faves, which is why the only reason I watched MoS was because BvS was coming out and I watch all the Batman movies and I always need to start from he beginning. I liked MoS enough except for the unnecessarily long action sequences and the fight scene which totally lost me at the end. 

 

I guess it sucks for Superman fans that there is no real sequel, I think the Avengers made DC want to get a superhero team out stat and I cannot be sad for the addition of Wonderwoman and hot scruffy intense Aquaman.

 

Disclaimer: I really enjoy the Nolan Batman trilogy and even though I'm not sure about BA as Batman, I'm glad I don't have to pay to see BvS.

[bijoux]

That BvS review was hilarious. Although really,

a jar of Lex Luthor's urine is an actual plot point? Whu?!?

 

I wasn't interested in the movie or the reviews but I'm gonna have to read this now.

[Sakura12]

As soon as they started announcing the cast list for Civil War, I was calling it Captain America: The Avengers 2.5. However I also call the first one Peggy Carter's Adventures with Captain America: the First Avenger. It's a mouthful but that's how I think of that movie now. 

 

Age of Ultron is probably my least favorite one but there are so many I love that I will still go see any movie Marvel puts out. 

[hogwash]

I don't like Man of Steel because of the infamous tornado scene. It was like a light switch when I watched it opening weekend. I was perfectly fine with everything up til that point then instant hate. It was that stupid. 

 

I don't get this DCU. They have access to their entire catalog of characters, works, etc. and they squander it. The Dark Knight trilogy set the bar for the dark/gritty thing so what the heck is Man of Steel and BvS supposed to be doing? 

[Morrigan2575]

Flash adjusted up in finals
http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/03/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-tuesday_31.html?m=1

1.1 and 3 million viewers

 

ETA: I screwed up it didn't adjust up, stayed the same as the prelims

Edited March 24, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Genki]

I think the DCU is loosing to MCU because

 

• because it always banks on Batman (and to a lesser extent Superman I don't think the franchise has been successful cinematically since the Christopher Reeves days*)
• It alienates and divides fandoms (The whole attitude of TV as the ugly step-child that can't play with Movie's toys is so annoying)
• It seems to take less risks
• The vision of the next direction seems to be driven by somebody who does action and visuals well but seems to have little proven experience with storytelling and characterisation

 

*This is based purely on uninformed opinion and absolutely no expertise, not even cursory googling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[nksarmi]

I thought Age of Ultron was ok but nothing close to the first one.  I loved Captain America: Winter Soldier though and was pleasantly surprised by Ant Man so while I won't see everything Marvel does in theaters - I will at least consider the projects I don't really know much about like Dr. Strange.

 

I am concerned about what Civil War is going to do to the universe though. BvS is designed to begin in doubt and unite in the end.  I wonder if Civil War will tear apart the Avengers not to have them come back together in Infinity Wars.  If that happens - I get the feeling someone is going to be ruined for me and that would be a shame.

[dtissagirl]

I wouldn't mind if it they filled a Captain America movie with a bunch of other characters in a team adventure, because it's very very hard to give Steve Rogers any kind of hero's journey. He has nowhere to go wrt character development. I actually like what the MCU tends to do with Steve -- they disrupt his environment, make him feel like a fish out of water in a chaotic situation, and then he gets a TEAM! and they go on an adventure. Steve learns no lesson, because there's nothing for him to learn -- his morals are already ideal, but the people around him grow. Howard and Peggy and  and Bucky and the Howling Commandos in Cap1; Sam and Nat [and even Nick Fury and Maria Hill] get the emotional development in Cap2. I'm good with that. It's smart storytelling to do with a character like Cap [like Supes].

 

I *hope* against all hope that Civil War will retain some of that, but I'm not as optimistic as I would have liked to be because 1. I read the comics way back and thought "dick measurement contest feeeh eh grow up emo dudes". [Emma Frost basically telling Tony go to fuck himself was the highlight for me]; and 2. Age of Ultron burned me.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed the Russo brothers ignore all sorts of awful character beats from Ultron, the same way Joss pretended Cap2 and IM3 didn't happen before AoU.

Edited March 23, 2016 by dtissagirl

[BkWurm1]

I can certainly see why Clark getting a movie and more development before this movie would have helped people connect with him.  BUT I like the idea of Batman reacting to the events of Man of Steel and seeing the some people love him and some people fear him response. 

 

Doing the Superman/Zod fight from Bruce's perspective is a brilliant set up and once I heard it, I was on board with having Bats in the movie, but I still hoped it would have more focus on Superman or at least a bunch of character moments on his side while Bruce was watching from far away and not seeing the man but only the dangerous demigod.  And it sounds like a bunch of character moments are a big nope. 

 

So I think it has loads of potential but I do understand why people wanted something different. I hope they do make a good Man of Steel sequel that develops Clark as Superman but I suspect they are going to plunge into Justice League.

 

Next movie is Wonder Woman, then a Justice League movie and then I think Aquaman and then another Justice League movie so at minimum at least 5 years before a Superman sequel would show up.  Too late by then. 

 

Oh well.  The sad thing is one of the main reasons (very petty reasons) I wanted a really great Superman movie is so that people would only point and laugh when they thought of Smallville.  They already do that to some extent but turns out I hold a mean grudge and want more.   

Edited March 24, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Genki]

I just saw BvS and what a mess, not really a great movie at all but having said that, it would not stop me from watching Justice League. And I'm still looking forward to Suicide Squad and Wonder-woman

 

Below is my not really spoiler-y impressions but I'll tag just in-case.

 

I have the same issue with BvS that I did with Age of Ultron, this isn't a movie it's a set-up for future movies. I was lacking a strong narrative direction and it shows. Also agree with @BkWurm1 that it did not need to re-hash the Batman origin yet again for the umpteen time.

 

For me MoS was interesting for most part, but lost me in the end action scene, whereas I didn't really like BvS until the team-up between Bats, Supes and WW.

 

I was also a tonne more interesting when we got tiny glimpses into the other JL members.

 

The story meanders and the set-up take so long I wish there was less of BW and more of Superman.There is so much damselling, and almost fridging, it made me uncomfortable.

 

Wonder-woman was wonderful and I just wanted more of her and I want her movie to be great so bad. She didn't get that much to do but she was intriguing, I loved her fighting and her fight music, and she was great counterpoint to the damselling.

 

I think Ben Affleck was hired as Batman because they wanted him to be a dick in BvS. I'm a Batman girl and I was firmly on Superman's side and Henry Cavil is so Hot. Actually I didn't enjoy Batman much, only in small places.  I think this would have been better off as a Superman movie with BW as a supporting character to lead into JL.

 

Lex is unambiguously deranged and clearly in the Villain column, (which is needed after Smallville), so if the casting and direction for the character is to make the audience hate him, mission accomplished.

[Morrigan2575]

I thought Age of Ultron was ok but nothing close to the first one.  I loved Captain America: Winter Soldier though and was pleasantly surprised by Ant Man so while I won't see everything Marvel does in theaters - I will at least consider the projects I don't really know much about like Dr. Strange.

 

I am concerned about what Civil War is going to do to the universe though. BvS is designed to begin in doubt and unite in the end.  I wonder if Civil War will tear apart the Avengers not to have them come back together in Infinity Wars.  If that happens - I get the feeling someone is going to be ruined for me and that would be a shame.

I didn't hate AoU it was a flawed movie but there are things I enjoyed.  Any movie that can get me to like QuickSilver (so far only Whedon and Peter David have managed) is going to get props from me because I kind of find him annoying in the comics. 

 

As for Civil War, I suspect that there's a lot more going on then we've seen in the trailers.  Civil War is most definitly about differing ideologies and where people come down on Government Oversight and can Government be trusted?  My guess is that in the end the team will be united instead of broken but, it's not going to be a simple issue.  There isn't going to be a right or wrong and I like that.  I like the idea that both sides have valid points and reasons.  Tony/Steve fighting and having very different beliefs/opinions of what is right/wrong, good/bad is a core aspect of the MCU.  We've seen this play out in both Avengers Movies, so I think this is a natural evolution of that relationship.  I don't think this makes Civil War an Avengers Movie, it's still very much a Captain America movie at it's core.  It's dealing with Steve's relationships with Bucky and Tony as well as Steve's relationship with the Government which has actually been a factor in the two previous CA movies.

[calliope1975]

Now here is a Batman movie I would gladly run out and see. 

 

[tennisgurl]

Right now, I am debating if I even want to see BvS. On the one hand, I pretty much see every super hero movie out there (big fan/masochist that I am), I really like Henry Cavil (and think he is a great Superman, trapped in a crap franchise), and I know its one of those movies that everyone is going to be going on about on the internet. On the other hand...its looks so damn boring and serious I just do not want to sit through the whole thing. I had my issues with Age of Ultron (mainly I felt like Joss Whedon wrote his script without even looking to see what else had been happening in the MCU since the first Avengers), but I was never really bored. 

 

The problem, to me, was DC freaked out when they saw what Marvel was doing with its movies, and decided to just throw together a universe, in the hopes of catching up as fast as possible. What they forgot, however, was that the MCU was a slow burn, with work being put into setting up each hero, and introducing the cross over stuff in after credits scenes and Eater Eggs. By the time Avengers happened, we already knew most of these characters, and we understood their world. DC just immediately started trying to create a whole world filled with characters, without any build up. 

[Sakura12]

From the Collider review of BvS, Wonder Woman only had 16 lines. So definitely not enough to get me to pay to see that movie. They also had mixed views on the movie. Which is what I'm seeing a lot of from fanboys. That's not a good sign for their anchor movie. 

 

The difference for me between CA: Civil War friends fighting over BvS, is I got to know each of the Avengers separately over the course of a couple years, even the ones without their own movie. So I'm more attached to them and what happens between them. This is a new Batman and I hated Man of Steel, I don't care about either of them or why they are fighting. 

 

Also has the Rotten Tomatoes rating gone down? It's at 31%. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by Sakura12