S03.E12: The Bakra

[parrotfeathers]

22 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

I'm way behind but I'm watching on Netflix

Me too!

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 12/11/2017 at 2:02 PM, vavera4ka said:

It WOULD be kinda cool if the freed slave was an ancestor of the Doctor in the 60s. Escaped slaves to live not too far from Gellis' residence... 

And the doctor's last name is Abernathy, like Geillis and her latest late husband.

[Cdh20]

On 1/2/2020 at 9:36 PM, foxfreakinmulder said:

OMG, what a beautiful man 🙂 I think he looks a little like my honey Chris Evans.

Claire and Jamie must carry a lot of money around with them. First he buys a slave then they buy new party clothes for Claire, Jamie, Furgus, Marsali, Willoughby plus their slave and they rented 2 coaches. I know Claire brought back some coins is that what they are using or are we just supposed to hand wave this?

I think the new Furgus is cute and he's likeable but he just doesn't have what the young Furgus had and I can't pin point what that is but he doesn't have it. For me anyways.

And of course Claire goes off by herself at the slave market right after Jamie tells her to stay close to him. I agree with the above posted that said she was rude to the person that handed her the umbrella.

I bet that slave ownership paper is going to come into play somewhere down the line, especially since it's in Claire's name. Maybe Roger finds it?

I know I'm way behind but I'm watching on Netflix.

They did not buy new clothes. All those clothes were from the chest they brought with them, filled with clothes from when they lived in France. Marsali & Fergus are wearing Jamie & Claire’s clothes too ( more handwaving that they fit). 

[Kim0820]

On 12/3/2017 at 1:52 PM, BitterApple said:

Wow, this was an awesome episode! I feel like it redeemed so many of the clunkers we've seen in Season 3.

Lord John Grey is smoking hot and damned if I'm not giddy to see him back on my tv screen. The awkwardness between Jaime, Claire and John during the office scene was hilarious. 

The scene with Willoughby and Margaret got me right in the feels and I'm praying Willoughby can get her away from her shady brother and Geillis.  Speaking of which, holy hell! I was not expecting her to reappear in Jamaica! My prediction: Claire figures out Brianna is the 200 year-old baby in question and kills Geillis in the cave to prevent Geillis from traveling through the stones and killing her. It's Geillis' skeleton that ends up in the lab in Boston. 

I too was bummed we didn't get to see Jaime reunite with Willie, but I guess there's no point when Jaime can't really ever be a father to him anyways.

Marsali is starting to grow on me. I figured she'd be a whiny, spoiled brat, but quelle surprise, she's a team player!

The only thing that annoyed me was Claire being rude and dismissive to the man who bought her the umbrella. He stated he'd bought it so she'd blend in, which you'd think would be a priority for her considering she and her husband were wanted by Captain Leonard. When in Rome, Claire....

I cannot freaking wait for this season finale. 

It was amazing the extent to which they did not even think about Capt. Leonard. They went all over town without mentioning him or any fear of capture and went to the ball totally focused on what they could find out about Ian, and not the least bit concerned - not even trying to find out if the Porpoise was still there - in fact Jamie opined it must still be there as it could not have done all the things needed to do before sailing again.   Capt. Leonard was out of sight and out of mind until they actually saw him!

[Camera One]

I found it interesting to see eighteenth century Jamaica in this episode. 

I also realized those triangular hats look surprisingly cool, and the guys look really good wearing them, LOL.

I'm glad they showed a bit of the slave trade, though I had to groan when Claire started hitting the slave seller with her umbrella.  That brawl could have ended the search for Young Ian for good.  Becoming a surgeon and being in her 50s (heh) sure hasn't made her any more intelligent.

The return of Geillis was interesting, though she's becoming more of a straight-up baddie instead of a mysterious cypher.  I liked her friendship with Claire in Season 1.  

There was more momentum in this episode now that they are finally in Jamaica and with so many old plot threads coming home to roost.  

On 12/8/2017 at 6:53 AM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Brianna is a nobody.  She's not royalty or Joan of Arc or anything.  

Well, she's the daughter of Jaime and Claire, so to this show, she's probably The Chosen One™.

On 5/10/2020 at 11:31 AM, Kim0820 said:

It was amazing the extent to which they did not even think about Capt. Leonard. They went all over town without mentioning him or any fear of capture and went to the ball totally focused on what they could find out about Ian, and not the least bit concerned - not even trying to find out if the Porpoise was still there - in fact Jamie opined it must still be there as it could not have done all the things needed to do before sailing again.   Capt. Leonard was out of sight and out of mind until they actually saw him!

I was totally wondering about that especially right after they got off the ship.  Though I must admit the episode distracted me so much with randomness that I forgot about Capt. Leonard myself somewhere along the way.

[Beeyago]

21 hours ago, Camera One said:

though I had to groan when Claire started hitting the slave seller with her umbrella.

I’m sorry but you just made me choke on my iced tea😂😂😂

 

21 hours ago, Camera One said:

Becoming a surgeon and being in her 50s (heh) sure hasn't made her any more intelligent.

Agreed🤦🏻‍♀️

[Anothermi]

FINALLY! We've got back to the episode after First Wife (or what should have been after it).

Warning! Long post. (I must have stored up space from the episodes I had so little to talk about.) 

Ian was kidnapped by Portuguese mercenaries acting on the orders of The Bakra—someone who knew the treasure would be there and who likes young boys. Someone new? The only person people—in this show—who fit the last part of that description—to my knowledge—are dead. BJR & Sandringham.

It's Geillis! Who was not burned for being a witch; who doesn't look like she birthed a child—OK hard to tell what with being covered in blood And the suspicions by some of our number—that Geillis may have been la Dame Blanche spoken of by the old fellow Jamie spoke to in Ardsmuir Prison—turned out to be on the nose. Sounds like she may have spread those tales to keep folk away from Dougal's treasure. 

So—if it takes 5 episodes to get back to where we left off in A. Malcolm and First Wife—should we expect to encounter characters from the intervening episodes to appear sooner or later...

• Captain Leonard, of course. And, of course, he is a villain. Check
• The seer and her unscrupulous brother. Check. (but she is simpatico with Willoughby—one thing that pleases me greatly. Maybe it is not her skeleton-in-the-cave but that of Geillis? Although she seems to know there is danger for her ahead.
• Lord Grey, of course. It appears he didn't use the sapphire to pay for a physician- as I thought, but used money available for the prison upkeep (what little there was). He kept the sapphire for sentimental reasons and hand-waved away the circumstances. (more on it later)

So, on to some thoughts on this episode. (I am so relieved to be back on “charted territory”.)

We get an immediate call back to S01E06 The Garrison Commander (I think that is the correct one) where Dougal takes Claire to a spring that kills (or sickens) anyone who does not tell the truth. He has plans but needs to know that she is not a spy. Geillis has found herbs that do the same thing—only more efficiently so as to eliminate the need to clean up messes made by liars dying—or being sick. I do hope she doesn't put young Ian under a spell so he won't trust Jamie and Claire. But if she can, I don't see her not doing it. 

One thing is true from this parallel. Both Dougal and Geillis are using the action for reasons of personal gain. Not an altruistic bone in either body. They were made for each other. But judging from the story she told Claire—of how she escaped death by fire—Dougal would have been a dead man soon enough if he'd stayed with her. And if Jamie hadn't dispatched him, I mean. 

why, Why, WHY does Claire—after Jamie has told her he wants to keep her in his sight—always do the opposite—like wander off alone; oblivious to where her husband and the others are? Is she like this in the books? Will she never learn? Does being independent mean being being stupid and/or thoughtless in these stories? And to top it off—when New!Angus brought her umbrella so she would appear respectable to the inhabitants—all I could see were mostly black/brown faces and wondered if she was racist—based on her response of "I don't care what THEY think"? But I guess she meant the people who were white and who owned the black/brown people. Still, rubbed me the wrong way. 

BUT it appears Claire wandered away due to plot necessities. She needs to have Jamie save a man. A man who can surreptitiously get them information about what happened to Ian—because there will be slaves from the Portuguese ship at the Governor's party who were bought from that ship. I also speculate that the document with Claire's name on it—indicating she bought a slave, when and where—will come into play in future plot twists. Calling Roger Wakefield! But it seems Claire is back to being the clueless one because Jamie has to patiently explain why destroying (this future evidence) is a bad idea for their new property. (transparent much?)

Next, we learn that Geillis was the benefactor the Campbells were travelling to. Did the brother put an advertisement offering his sister's skills in Jamie's paper back in Edinburgh? How did Geillis find out about her—Margaret? Doubt we'll find out. <<shrugs>>  Geillis believes Margaret will be able to tell her the meaning of the Brahan Seer's prophecy, but it will require the three sapphires she gathered back in Scotland and the one Jamie gave Lord Grey is missing—obviously. Seems that's how Geillis will know when the new Scottish King will arise. duh; Duh; DUH! Intrigue and danger ahead. Gotta hand it to Geillis. She's nothing if not persistent.

At the Governor's party—Willoughby is once again a highlight. He makes a joke that a dandy and a Frenchman are one and the same thing—or was it a joke? (made everyone laugh anyway) He sees the human being in Margaret and is drawn to her as she is to him. I hope they don't have an unhappy ending and the the skeleton-in-the-cave IS Geillis (next season I'll bet) and NOT Margaret. 

The other highlight was the Jamie/ John reunion. Everything I could have asked for. The awkwardness between all three of them. Claire wondering what is going on—and not knowing because Jamie didn't tell her everything. John dismayed at Claire's very existence. Jamie trying not to show how eager he is to know more about his son. At least John both gave him something "he remembers you", but tempered it with “from time to time”. I fear this triangle is only going to get more difficult—even when Claire learns more. Willie is John and Isobel's son now.

Clearly Lord Grey is not happy being in Jamaica and it seems he's destined to be there a very long while. He called being given the post a “malediction”—a curse—and the “terminus” of a series of “so-called” promotions. So his career path has not improved since he was landed with Ardsmuir Prison. Just his titles.

The solo interchange between Lord Grey and Claire—when Grey heard what she knew about Willie—even up to his mother being the sister of John's wife—made me think that John would dearly like to know if Jamie told her about HIM. Neither of them trusts the other at this point. 

The Claire/ Geillis interchange started off well. Although I had to look up the date of Casablanca to ensure it was made during a time that Geillis could have seen it and known the famous quote that she offered as an in-joke between time travellers. It is good to finally know what happened to her. Dougal definitely dodged a bullet poison pellet not being allowed to marry her—much good that it did him. (at least he died by the hand of someone who actually loved him) She has become a serial murderer in her quest for Scottish independence. Beware Claire. Beware. Hope Claire never tells Geillis about Roger. But this is New!Claire so I think she will. 

And COINCIDENCE! Geillis married an Abernathy and had bought a slave—spoken of just before Claire made the scene in the slave market—who she apparently bought for “breeding” purposes but who didn't provide bairns—we were told. Wonder if Claire put two and two together regarding her friend Joe Abernathy? Geillis is not a woman to stop breeding her property based on one bad purchase me thinks. Plus, she lied to Claire and Jamie about having seen young Ian! Can she gets worse? Of. Course. She. Can!

Poor Margaret. She's forced by her brother and Geillis into doing something that she believes is evil—that will bring death. She'd rather be bringing hope to people who have little of it. That is who Willoughby sees when he looks at her. And he sees the pain she is in— having to tell Lord John's "fortune". 

I don't think what she said has much to do with Lord John. Geillis already told us she needed the three stones together for Margaret to tell the prophecy of the Brahan Seer—regarding the coming of the new Scottish King. But that doesn't mean Lord John—among others—won't be touched by the evil unleashed by the interpretation of the prophecy. And since it's bound to come up in future episodes: 

Margaret Campbell: When twice twelve hundred, moons have coursed, 'tween man's attack and woman's curse... and when the issue is cut down... ♪ Then will a Scotsman wear a crown.

If we didn't start this tale with the premise of Claire time traveling 200 years—both to and from—this prophesy would mean: NEVER will a Scotsman wear a crown again!! But that would be a different show.

After that all we get is the lead up to the next PERILOUS ending.

I'm surprised that Captain Leonard found them so soon. Once the Artemis had been unloaded, Jamie had the crew moor it out of sight at a cove they'd passed coming in. Unless Captain Leonard had arrived first and done the same thing? Possible. The Governor's party was set for the night they arrived!

Once again Claire is required to exhume her generic “danger/peril” face for the final shot of the episode. <<yawn>>. 

Edited June 27, 2021 by Anothermi
numerical correction & spelling

[gingerella]

On 6/25/2021 at 7:10 PM, Anothermi said:

FINALLY! We've got back to the episode after First Wife (or what should have been after it).

Warning! Long post. (I must have stored up space from the episodes I had so little to talk about.) 

Ian was kidnapped by Portuguese mercenaries acting on the orders of The Bakra—someone who knew the treasure would be there and who likes young boys. Someone new? The only person people—in this show—who fit the last part of that description—to my knowledge—are dead. BJR & Sandringham.

It's Geillis! Who was not burned for being a witch; who doesn't look like she birthed a child—OK hard to tell what with being covered in blood And the suspicions by some of our number—that Geillis may have been la Dame Blanche spoken of by the old fellow Jamie spoke to in Ardsmuir Prison—turned out to be on the nose. Sounds like she may have spread those tales to keep folk away from Dougal's treasure. 

So—if it takes 5 episodes to get back to where we left off in A. Malcolm and First Wife—should we expect to encounter characters from the intervening episodes to appear sooner or later...

• Captain Leonard, of course. And, of course, he is a villain. Check
• The seer and her unscrupulous brother. Check. (but she is simpatico with Willoughby—one thing that pleases me greatly. Maybe it is not her skeleton-in-the-cave but that of Geillis? Although she seems to know there is danger for her ahead.
• Lord Grey, of course. It appears he didn't use the sapphire to pay for a physician- as I thought, but used money available for the prison upkeep (what little there was). He kept the sapphire for sentimental reasons and hand-waved away the circumstances. (more on it later)

Yes to all the above! I feel like after 4 episodes of really bad, totally unsatisfying sex, we finally had a good roll in the Story hay again! So many threads pulled together in this episode, and old faces holding those threads. I believe my exact words at the opening scene of Ian's abduction was, in my best Scottish burr, 'THANK CHRIST!' And worth noting, Cousin Jared and anyone seemingly in his employ all seem to he helpful and normal folks. Jamie ought to take note, Cousin Jared could teach him a lot!

On 6/25/2021 at 7:10 PM, Anothermi said:

We get an immediate call back to S01E06 The Garrison Commander (I think that is the correct one) where Dougal takes Claire to a spring that kills (or sickens) anyone who does not tell the truth. He has plans but needs to know that she is not a spy. Geillis has found herbs that do the same thing—only more efficiently so as to eliminate the need to clean up messes made by liars dying—or being sick. I do hope she doesn't put young Ian under a spell so he won't trust Jamie and Claire. But if she can, I don't see her not doing it. 

It was great to have a call back to an episode from the best season of the show so far, and one that harkened back to Dougal MacKenzie and all the intrigue he brought to the canvas. But I'm confused about a few things related to Dougal and Geillis, namely:

* She says Dougal rescued her and placed the bairn somewhere for safe keeping, but Colum told Claire on his deathbed that HE had placed Dougal and Geillis' bairn with a childless couple that were MacKenzies. So which is the true story, and does this mean that Roger isn't really a MacKenzie or that he's not Dougal's descendant? Or did Colum perhaps find out where Dougal had hid his child and Colum retrieved the bairn and put him with the childless MacKenzie couple? And WHY isn't Geillis more interested in finding/reuniting with her child now? It's all that's left of the supposed great love that was Dougal MacKenzie, but it seems like she's, 'Child? What child?" now, which doesn't play true to her elation that she was carrying Dougal's child when last we saw her. Then again, I ken she was elated to be with child of someone she felt was going to play a huge commanding role in the Uprising, and when she learned of Dougal's demise, perhaps she just thought looking after his child was no longer that appealing since she would now not be the wife of a leader of the Uprising...that seems more like the Geillis we're seeing now.

* Was the treasure Dougal's, meant for financing the Uprising, and if so, where did he get all those jewels because god knows the tenants on MacKenzie land were pretty damn poor, so where would Dougal MacKenzie get such treasures? And if they were Geillis' treasure and not Dougal's, where did SHE get that stuff from?

* Geillis tells Ian that she's made a tea that makes people tell the truth even if they don't want to, that she got the herbs from someone on the island...Could we be in for a meet-up with Master Raymond shortly? He was told to leave France and never be seen there again or his would be killed. It seems like it's Reunion Week for Jamie and Claire so I would be quite okay with stumbling over Master Raymond again in Jamaica mon...

Things that made me go What.The.Fuck?

* Ian just happens to be kidnapped by a crew that works for Geillis in Jamaica and that just happens to be lurking behind Silkie Island in Scotland at the exact same moment that Jamie sends Ian to swim out to retrieve it...I'm sorry but I'm calling a big stinky BULLSHIT right there.

* Ian, DO NOT DRINK THE TEA FFS! No good will come of that! So obvious! And of course we have another male forced sex scene with Geillis forcing Ian to bed her. I get so tired of all the rape in this Show BUT, I will say that I appreciate that they deal with men experiencing rape and not always having it be a woman. In fact, we've had Jamie experience awful sexual torture and rape in a most violent way; then we see a rich young woman blackmail Jamie into having sex with her; and now we have a young man, still a boy really, being forced to have sex with a crazy witch. So I at least have to give them props for not making it always about women being violated.

* Geillis gives new meaning to 'blood bath' but that was just for shock value and seemed absolutely stupid to me. One of the few eye rolling moments this epi.

* How does Claire's new slave manage to understand the level of English required to get all the instructions that they're giving him for chatting up the slave staff to find intel on Ian? That seems rather unlikely!

* Lord John Grey just happens to be the new governor of Jamaica and just happens to be wearing the missing third sapphire that Jamie gave him at Ardsmuir and just happens to be wearing it prominently so that anyone can see it. Come the fuck on Show, really???

* Why didn't Claire mention that she saw Geillis in 1968 and followed her to the Stones the night she traveled back through them? They acknowledge upon seeing one another privately, that they're both time travelers even though they don't come right out and say it, so I was waiting for Claire to say something but she never did. Why? Did she not want Geillis to know that she knew Geillis killed her own husband as a sacrifice for the Stones?

Things that made me chuckle:

Geillis: "Of all the gin joints in all the towns..." That? Was funny right there! The future references are always fun to see worked into dialogue here and there and it's been a while since we've had a good one so thank you crazy Geillis!

John slobbering over Jamie, unable to keep his desire for Jamie under wraps, whilst Claire stands there with a big ol WTF thought bubble over her head! That? was funny stuff. It was a bit slapstick almost, but after the last several epis being utter shite, I'll take some slapstick humor over the slop we've been served up since E08! It felt like a Chevy Chase comedy reunion what with Jamie, Claire, John, Geillis, and the Campbells...

Bits I quite liked:

* I loved the opening scene going backwards in time to where we left off with Ian, when the Show does these sort of story telling devices it's at it's best, so well done! 

* I'm quite liking New & Improved Marsali now! She was perfectly fine in Jamie's recall of the Hogmany celebration where they first met, but our first meeting of her bursting into their bedroom at Lalllybroch was just awful. So it's interesting how quickly she's gone from 'just as horrid as her mother' to  a character that I hope sticks around for the long haul. Like I said before, she is more like Claire's daughter with her personality, than she is her creepy ma. All this aside, I am bummed we did not get the ship conversation between Claire and Marsali about how to have sex and avoid an unwanted pregnancy. That is a convo I'd like to have heard Show. I wonder if it's in the Books, I rather hope it is. I would like to know if Claire's advising the calendar method, the Rhythm Method, or anal. These details are interesting and it's a shame the Show chose to omit them.

* The whole Willoughby falls in love with Margaret Campbell thing felt very off and contrived...at first...but when he went to comfort her after she'd done Lord John's reading of the Prophecy, what he said to her made the whole thing fall into place. It was a lovely tie in to the story/poem he read on the Artemis to get the crew's attention, he spoke of wanting deep love but being an outsider and so different looking, he was even looked upon as unworthy by the local hoors, and thus love had evaded him. With Margaret, he saw her humanity and that she too, was being looked upon as different - and was being used by her brother - and he saw the person she was underneath it all, when one stripped away the seer persona and all that went with it, she was a woman who longed for peace, stability, and love, but didn't think she'd ever get any of it. In that moment they connected as fellow Outlanders, and it made me long for a story line that will bring them together and let Willoughby have someone by his side the way Jamie has Claire.

* Which brings me to the premonition of Margaret telling Claire in Edinburgh, "A Bandawe, A Bandawe!" I previously thought she was so upset about that premonition because it was perhaps a warning to Claire, but more importantly a warning to herself that this was where she herself would meet her death. But now, after this episode, I think perhaps "A Bandawe" is the place where Geillis sacrifices the boys she rapes as she clearly practices black magic as opposed to white magic - and perhaps this is the place where Geillis will lure Claire in the hopes that she will find Ian there, and likely Claire will hopefully kill Geillis there to free Ian. I hope Margaret has no role to play in being there now, and that her story is for Willoughby. In order for them to be together and remain with Jamie and Claire, Margaret would have to come with Jamie and Claire, wherever they're headed next, because I don't think Willoughby would leave Margaret there alone to be abused by her brother now that he's made a declaration to her.

* The whole slave market scene was difficult to watch for obvious reasons, I'm guessing it was more awful in reality than what we were shown but it felt fairly true to what it might have been like. Yes Claire once again went off in another culture, another time, and could have gotten herself or the slave killed on the spot. BUT, what I quite liked about all of this scene was that Claire's initial visceral reaction to stopping the defilement and degradation of this man, and Jamie's solution to buying him under Claire's name - which was really the only option to saving him - proved in the end to be more complex than Claire could have imagined. Jamie was correct, they couldn't just burn up the bill of ownership because if he was seen anywhere on Jamaica or probably elsewhere, he'd have been assumed to have escaped from someone and either been killed, tortured, or re sold to someone horrible. I felt it was a realistic depiction of a complicated situation that was awful yes, but there was no easy solution in the moment.

What I hated:

When Captain Leonard shows up at the soiree, Jamie and Claire should have told Lord John about that bit of info when they were in his study. Why wouldn't they have mentioned that Leonard would be trying to find Jamie and arrest him? Surely John could have usurped Leonard or diverted him elsewhere?

Annnnnd, another Jamie and Claire get separated!!! FUCK.THIS.SHIT. I'm utterly over this stupid trope being used over and over and over and over and over...ad nauseum indeed.

Edited June 27, 2021 by gingerella

[Anothermi]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

* She says Dougal rescued her and placed the bairn somewhere for safe keeping, but Colum told Claire on his deathbed that HE had placed Dougal and Geillis' bairn with a childless couple that were MacKenzies. So which is the true story, and does this mean that Roger isn't really a MacKenzie or that he's not Dougal's descendant? Or did Colum perhaps find out where Dougal had hid his child and Colum retrieved the bairn and put him with the childless MacKenzie couple?

I don't know. I think both stories could be true at the same time. The Mackenzie brothers have been functioning as one leader for years. One is the brain—the other carries out the plan. Column could have found a place for the bairn and Dougal would have taken it to its new home. If Colum didn't tell him NOT to rescue Geillis then that would have been his own decision. 

Colum told Claire he'd never heard Dougal mention the child. That is different than ensuring it got delivered to loyal Mackenzie parents. And given that Dougal was hitting on Claire after Geillis' supposed  death—whether he helped Geillis escape burning or that was just the story  she told Claire—he moved on from her and the child right after.  I'd trust Colum's information before either Geillis or Dougal's.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Anothermi

[gingerella]

Something just struck me and I wanted to post it separate to my above post because it's a culmination AHA! thought about this Show as a whole thus far. We're watching a show called Outlander, and early on in S01 we learn that an Outlander is someone foreign, someone who does not belong in the time or place where they currently are. At first, I assumed it referred Claire alone, but as we got to know Jamie, and saw how modern in thinking he was, always open to ideas whose time was far in the future, I realized that both Jamie and Claire are Outlanders. But now, looking at the ragtag band of old faces and new that are surrounding Jamie and Claire, it's sort of like they are Outlander 'magnets', and they are always attracting people who just do not fit into the place where they are currently. Some of this misfit thing is mental, some physical, some emotional. For example:

Fergus: Is an Outlander because he is missing his hand, and thus is considered deformed, to the point where Father Fogden couldn't believe Marsali was going to marry him. He does not fit in because of his hand.

Yi Tien Cho/Willoughby: Is an Outlander because he hails from China, and though he is more well-spoken and cultured than most folks we've seen thus far in both Scotland and Jamaica, he is still so weirdly foreign and outsider that even a hoor will not lie with him.

Marsali: Is an Outlander because she has very modern and independent thinking for a young woman of her time, let alone as the daughter of a nutjob.

Hayes: The smaller red-haired ex-Ardsmuir prisoner is an Outlander because he seems like a misfit. We see this in the tormenting that the crew gives him to jump overboard in the 'Jonah' scene.

Murtagh: Is an Outlander because he doesn't really fit in anywhere either, and he does also share an open-mindedness that Jamie has too. He believed Jamie when he told him about Claire being from the future and even worked out all the years she was alive in her original time. He's an outsider, others would never be able to understand that.

Master Raymond: Is an Outlander, surely a time traveler, but he never truly fits in wherever he may be, unlike the Count, who is evil but fits into his own time.

Young Ian: Is an Outlander because he also is awkward and doesn't seem to really fit in at home, which is why he's always running away from home. He sees in his Uncle Jamie a kindred spirit though I don't think he quite knows why yet.

Geillis: Obviously an Outlander because of her time traveling abilities, but also because she too never fits in wherever she is. Not in her present or her future past.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Are there other Outlanders you can think of, that I've missed?

[Anothermi]

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

And WHY isn't Geillis more interested in finding/reuniting with her child now? It's all that's left of the supposed great love that was Dougal MacKenzie, but it seems like she's, 'Child? What child?" now, which doesn't play true to her elation that she was carrying Dougal's child when last we saw her.

Geillis is always spinning a story. But she is in the past for one reason and only one reason. Her whole storyline this episode is a continuation of her reason for time traveling.

She chooses men by what they can do for her. Perhaps she described her feelings for Dougal in the way Claire would find believable. But having his child was just the current tool to her helping THE cause. She moved on as quickly as he did when it didn't pan out. 

She saw something in Claire—maybe just as someone who knows where she's from and the comfort that brings. But we saw she thought Claire was in the past for the same reason she was. She was wrong, but that's what she believed when she saved Claire.

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

* Was the treasure Dougal's, meant for financing the Uprising, and if so, where did he get all those jewels because god knows the tenants on MacKenzie land were pretty damn poor, so where would Dougal MacKenzie get such treasures?

Geillis answered Archie's question " how did (she) know about the jewels" by telling him:

They were handed down from father to son for generations, until they came into the hands of Dougal MacKenzie. He hid them along with the family treasure on Silkie Island.
 

Seems that there is a story behind that explanation and I want to see it!  The treasure was in a box hidden behind a stone (?) with the Mackenzie Clan symbology. (coat of arms? or the like). So, the last part—that he hid them along with the family treasure—is true. That is vague enough that they could have belonged to Mackenzie ancestors OR perhaps he got them through his wife's ancestors?  I'd like this tidbit to get a fuller airing. 

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

* Why didn't Claire mention that she saw Geillis in 1968 and followed her to the Stones the night she traveled back through them? They acknowledge upon seeing one another privately, that they're both time travelers even though they don't come right out and say it, so I was waiting for Claire to say something but she never did. Why? Did she not want Geillis to know that she knew Geillis killed her own husband as a sacrifice for the Stones?

I was relieved that Claire managed to keep her mouth shut on that topic.  I'm sure it had something to do with knowing that Gillian had murdered her husband in order to time travel, but there are a lot of reasons for her to keep her cards close to her chest as far as Geillis is concerned. The woman is a homicidal maniac who is batshit crazy and a pathological liar to boot! Claire did that one thing right. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Anothermi

[Cdh20]

As far as we can see Geillis has killed 3 husbands, & likely married each one for practical purposes. 

[gingerella]

3 hours ago, Anothermi said:

They were handed down from father to son for generations, until they came into the hands of Dougal MacKenzie. He hid them along with the family treasure on Silkie Island.
 

Seems that there is a story behind that explanation and I want to see it!  The treasure was in a box hidden behind a stone (?) with the Mackenzie Clan symbology. (coat of arms? or the like). So, the last part—that he hid them along with the family treasure—is true. That is vague enough that they could have belonged to Mackenzie ancestors OR perhaps he got them through his wife's ancestors?  I'd like this tidbit to get a fuller airing. 

So, I know she said this BUT, Dougal isn’t the eldest son, Colum is, hence why he is Laird of Clan MacKenzie. So why would a second son get such a windfall of family treasure? And, Colum has never mentioned it. It seems odd to me and I also would like to know more!

Edited June 28, 2021 by gingerella

[Anothermi]

35 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Ao, I know ahe said this BUT, Dougal.ia. it the eldest son, Colum is, hence why he is Laird if Clan MacKenzie. So why would would second son get such a windfall if family treasure? And, Colum has never mentioned it. It seems.odd to me and I also would like to know more!

Exactly!  Add to the above that Jamie says there’s a box full of ancient coins on Silkie Island and Margaret-the-oracle senses that the treasure is born of blood and death. 

I also found it odd that Dougal had the treasure to hide, not Colum. But I sure as hell want the dirt on any bloody, deadly, ancient MacKenzie conflict. 

[SassAndSnacks]

17 hours ago, gingerella said:

I would like to know if Claire's advising the calendar method, the Rhythm Method, or anal. These details are interesting and it's a shame the Show chose to omit them.

There are several contraception conversations throughout the books, and they ARE fascinating.  

17 hours ago, gingerella said:

It's all that's left of the supposed great love that was Dougal MacKenzie, but it seems like she's, 'Child? What child?" now, which doesn't play true to her elation that she was carrying Dougal's child when last we saw her.

I never got the "mother" vibe from Geillis.  I've felt the baby was a device to hold onto Dougal, and not even in a romantic way, but more of a way of keeping him close for the sake of the uprising and the advantages to her situation that he could bring.  

12 hours ago, Anothermi said:

She chooses men by what they can do for her. Perhaps she described her feelings for Dougal in the way Claire would find believable. But having his child was just the current tool to her helping THE cause. She moved on as quickly as he did when it didn't pan out.

Yes!

[Pallas]

That was the banana split of episodes: a mess of great ingredients, topped with nuts and red syrup.

[gingerella]

32 minutes ago, Pallas said:

That was the banana split of episodes: a mess of great ingredients, topped with nuts and red syrup.

After four shit sundaes in a row, all I can say is IT'S ABOUT TIME!!! 

[SassAndSnacks]

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

After four shit sundaes in a row, all I can say is IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!

Re-watching has given me such a fresh perspective.  I feel like I dislike the past 4 episodes more than I dislike the Paris episodes.  These last few just seem so chaotic and thrown together.  Apparently, I had repressed that knowledge.  

[gingerella]

18 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Re-watching has given me such a fresh perspective.  I feel like I dislike the past 4 episodes more than I dislike the Paris episodes.  These last few just seem so chaotic and thrown together.  Apparently, I had repressed that knowledge.  

OMG, I felt the same way too! I was thinking, give me Paris any day, it was HEAPS better than S03E08-11!