S13.E01: Lost & Found

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, Jeddah said:

I don’t think that’s common. Maybe when they’re out on patrol, but I don't think cops sit at their desks wearing bulletproof vests. If the town was dangerous enough to warrant that, why was she the only employee in the police station? Even Mayberry had two cops on duty.

I live in a small rural town that some would say was like Mayberry--I wouldn't because I live here and all--officers here are required to wear their vests through their entire shift, even in the station. This is true for both the State Patrol officers and the local county sheriff officers.

4 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

There was another officer there when she first got back with Jack, wasn't there?

Yes, and I believe he had his vest on too.

Edited October 16, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

What kind of got me was Sam and Dean, both big guys who have taken on multiple armed people in the past, being locked up and/or handcuffed by one single woman.

They weren't putting up a fight. What good would it have done for them to resist arrest? It likely would have agitated Jack even more and he might have done even more damage.

[Katy M]

17 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

What kind of got me was Sam and Dean, both big guys who have taken on multiple armed people in the past, being locked up and/or handcuffed by one single woman.

Sam and DEan don't generally resist arrest.  It's dangerous to them and the cops.  So, unless they suspect a cop of being a monster, or they are in an especial hurry, they comply.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

20 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

These are all sound choices! You might want to add some whisky in there too...just to get in the right spirit. ;)

Whisky or Whiskey?  :)  Fyi: (You probably already know this) bourbon is whiskey too - just American whiskey made with at least 50% corn, versus barley mash.  And...I like all three (Scotch whisky, Irish whiskey and American bourbon whiskey.)  Just depends on my mood.  But since this is Supernatural, I stick with the American stuff, because Crowley aside, (And even though Johnny Walker is Scotch whisky) I think the boys would too.  :)

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

What I didn't get  is why the angels didn't try to smite them. Like all Super Bitch Angel had to do was reach up and smite Dean when he had the angel blade to her throatI know only archangels can snap their fingers to smite but seraphims can smite by touching the foreheads or even just do  the forehead boop to take them out. I wonder if they can't smite anymore.

I like the theory which someone proposed upthread that there is a No-Smite order out on the fellas.  

Otherwise -  wasn't the lack of ability to smite due to the angels falling and losing their wings?  So wouldn't that still be in effect if the only door to Heaven is still the big litterbox in the playground?  (Sorry, been watching too many cat videos lately.)  

Edited October 16, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey

[Jeddah]

Well, I’ve learned something new from all of you! Anecdotally, it’s not like that where I live, but I guess that’s unusual. I had no idea.

 

25 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

There was another officer there when she first got back with Jack, wasn't there?  She told him something about how nobody was weird (not an exact quote, I know) and sent him off on patrol.

I totally missed that. Good to know there was at least one other person on duty.

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Whisky or Whiskey?  :)  Fyi: (You probably already know this) bourbon is whiskey too - just American whiskey made with at least 50% corn, versus barley mash.  And...I like all three (Scotch whisky, Irish whiskey and American bourbon whiskey.)  Just depends on my mood.  But since this is Supernatural, I stick with the American stuff, because Crowley aside, (And even though Johnny Walker is Scotch whisky) I think the boys would too.  :)

Heh! Stupid, but delightful typo! Yeah, I know that bourbon is whiskey, but to set the right mood, you might want rot gut, just sayin' ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

10 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

but to set the right mood, you might want rot gut, just sayin' ;)

LOLOL!!  Oh, I don't know if I can handle that!  I'm not a professional like Sam and Dean.  :)

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Otherwise -  wasn't the lack of ability to smite due to the angels falling and losing their wings?  So wouldn't that still be in effect if the only door to Heaven is still the big litterbox in the playground?  (Sorry, been watching too many cat videos lately.) 

AFAIK , losing their wings had nothing to do with smiting. They just couldn't teleport. There was smiting throughout s9, Gadreel killed the demons, the angels smote humans in Holy Terror, and there was the angel that was "mercy" killing humans via smiting by touch.  In s12, Cas attempted to smite Ms Henchbitch but the only reason he couldn't do it is that she blocked him with her hand and then clocked him with the enochian knuckles. There was no indication he couldn't smite. Ishim attempted and failed to smite Lily Sunder but not because he didn't have the power to smite a human, he just couldn't smite her in particular.

So for me other than just to have a big brawl in the jail cell, I can't see a reason for them to not try smiting unless MAYBE Jack's birth altered something in Heaven. Like maybe the angels don't have the power they did before he was born? Maybe that's why they want him? I dunno, that's just a speculation on my part. No spoiler just a spec. 

[ahrtee]

Just rewatched, and I still enjoyed it more than I expected. There were a few things that made me wonder (but didn't interrupt the flow, so they didn't bother me too much):

- Why didn't the angel banishing sigil work on the nasty angel in the next room?  I don't think it was ever shown to be room-specific (in fact, I seem to remember it would blow away all angels in a particular radius, whether you wanted them gone or not.)  But maybe I missed something (or the radius depends on how large the sigil is).

- Why didn't anyone think of asking Jack to heal the sheriff's son?  The angel had just told Sam that Jack could do "almost" anything (except bring Cas back to life), but I'd think a simple healing would be no trouble.  I can understand Jack not knowing his own powers (or how to do it) but why didn't Sam or Dean say, "just try. See if you can do it" (just like Dean asked amnesiac-Cas  to "remember" how to exorcise demons with a touch.)  

- It sounded to me that, when Jack was stabbed, Sam called "Jake!" not "Jack."  He said it twice.  

Lastly, it occurred to me that Jesse the Antichrist should be about the same age as Jack by now.  Maybe that can be the spinoff, maybe a sitcom with the two as roommates:

"Two young men making their way in the world today.  One's half demon, one's half angel.  Together, they're going to raise a little hell!"

[shoetingstar]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

AFAIK , losing their wings had nothing to do with smiting. They just couldn't teleport. There was smiting throughout s9, Gadreel killed the demons, the angels smote humans in Holy Terror, and there was the angel that was "mercy" killing humans via smiting by touch.  In s12, Cas attempted to smite Ms Henchbitch but the only reason he couldn't do it is that she blocked him with her hand and then clocked him with the enochian knuckles. There was no indication he couldn't smite. Ishim attempted and failed to smite Lily Sunder but not because he didn't have the power to smite a human, he just couldn't smite her in particular.

So for me other than just to have a big brawl in the jail cell, I can't see a reason for them to not try smiting unless MAYBE Jack's birth altered something in Heaven. Like maybe the angels don't have the power they did before he was born? Maybe that's why they want him? I dunno, that's just a speculation on my part. No spoiler just a spec. 

Or maybe the show continues to be consistent about its inconsistencies when it comes to Angels and their powers. This frustrates me to no end in regards to Cas, specifically. Though I guess they do try to gives some kind a semi-throwaway reason for him not to be able to kick ass that should otherwise be able to kicked. I'm still not clear if Drunk Bitch and Pimp-sauve dude were Angels or Demons working for Lucifer.

In other news, Although I read your guys posts, essentially lurking most of the time - I decided to watch semi-live this season.  My usual is to skip most of the season (all of it last season!) and binge-watch it at the end. But dagnabbit there is too much fuckery and a sprinkling of fun to contain and I end up having debating all by my lonesome.

I had very LOW, low, low expectations for this episode, so that may contribute to why I found it fairly enjoyable.

• At least I did NOT hate Jack - though *nitpick alert* that NOUGAT line fell so flat for me. I'm annoyed just thinking about it now! They were going for a Cas meets Terminator first coming to earth kinda dealio but while it was not gawdawful, it was....a B+ plus bordering on C effort? 
• My favorite parts were Jensen/Dean's prayer and I must say Jared/Sam's Eulogy was noticeably great in the funeral pyre scene. Both scenes were very touching and made me cry.
• I am NOT liking what the "Dean is A Super Bitch" (He's a super Bitch, he's super bitchy, He's Super Bitchy - yow. Thank you Rick James) line repeated at least 2x by Drunk Angel-Demon girl - means for Dean's storyline this season.  

So the issue of all monsters being evil and worth killing or not - has been brought up numerous times and been in a thorn in the brother's relationship a few times. I'm thinking Dean killing Sam's childhood friend (forgetting what kinda monster she was, a Ruguru maybe?) AND Sam killing Dean's Amazon (??) daughter, in retaliation. However, last season Dean and Sam were on the same page in teaching the BMoL dude that they kill on a case by case basis. AND they were on the same page that Baby Lucifer would have to die. But we are back to Dean wants to kill, Sam doesn't, wash, rinse repeat AGAIN. Show, there are other themes you could explore at this point. I'm just sayin'. I find both of them have reasonable points of view. But they never talk about why they feel the way they do - they just tell/try to guilt-convince the other one what he should believe. But Telling and not Showing is my ongoing issue with Supernatural and I need to just accept it, like a 12-step process of Fangirl Recovery.  Their communication continues to suck going into Season 13. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by shoetingstar

[catrox14]

35 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

- It sounded to me that, when Jack was stabbed, Sam called "Jake!" not "Jack."  He said it twice.  

LOL I heard that too. I was super distracted by it. LOL.

[catrox14]

34 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

I'm still not clear if Drunk Bitch and Pimp-sauve dude were Angels or Demons working for Lucifer.

They were all angels but I'm thinking maybe they are angels from the AU? AU Bobby said the  angels had baby ears on necklaces which sounds like they are pretty brutal.

42 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

But we are back to Dean wants to kill, Sam doesn't, wash, rinse repeat AGAIN.

My only take is that Dean was so distraught over Cas' death and Mary's demise that he think Jackifer was going to be evil out of the gate. He's projecting all his grief and rage onto Jack. 

I hate it as well, but I'm sure he'll be shown the error of his way in due time LOL

[Jeddah]

55 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

 Lastly, it occurred to me that Jesse the Antichrist should be about the same age as Jack by now.  Maybe that can be the spinoff, maybe a sitcom with the two as roommates:

"Two young men making their way in the world today.  One's half demon, one's half angel.  Together, they're going to raise a little hell!"

I’d watch it! You totally need to pitch this series to the CW. I’m picturing the credits being like the ones in “Changing Channels.”

[shoetingstar]

14 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

They were all angels but I'm thinking maybe they are angels from the AU? AU Bobby said the  angels had baby ears on necklaces which sounds like they are pretty brutal.

My only take is that Dean was so distraught over Cas' death and Mary's demise that he think Jackifer was going to be evil out of the gate. He's projecting all his grief and rage onto Jack. 

I hate it as well, but I'm sure he'll be shown the error of his way in due time LOL

Drunk Bish spoke as if she knew Cas , she could be lying of course.  Was it established where Cas was in the battle in the AU?  Like many of the unclear moments on my Fav Shows, I'll chalk it up to poor writing or acting or execution, not always all, but sometimes it just happens lol. I wish I had the scripts to see what the original, uh, vision was for certain scenes/episodes. I'm do think we will get some beings crossing over, definitely. 

Good point about Dean - we know Grief-ridden Dean is very black and white and determined. I wonder what will be the turning point for him to not think Jack is death-worthy. Many times, I want to personally show Dean the error of his ways...but that's a whole other discussion *ahem* cough, cough.

[Katy M]

30 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

Good point about Dean - we know Grief-ridden Dean is very black and white and determined. I wonder what will be the turning point for him to not think Jack is death-worthy. Many times, I want to personally show Dean the error of his ways...but that's a whole other discussion *ahem* cough, cough.

I would kind of like for Dean to start to think that Jack is not evil, while simultaneously, Sam begins to think that he is.  And it turns out that he is evil.  

[shoetingstar]

42 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I would kind of like for Dean to start to think that Jack is not evil, while simultaneously, Sam begins to think that he is.  And it turns out that he is evil.  

That would be a welcome twist! Except, the boys can have good evil-dar when the writers allow them too. So there must be a reason they switch teams and later get on the same page. Like maybe his powers effect them differently, blinding them at different times to the full story?

[Katy M]

Just now, shoetingstar said:

That would be a welcome twist! Except, the boys can have good evil-dar when the writers allow them too. So there must be a reason they switch teams and later get on the same page. Like maybe his powers effect them differently, blinding them at different times to the full story?

Oh, sure, it wouldn't be out of the blue. They'd both have their reasons for the flip flop.  Maybe they would each see something that the other wasn't around to see.  I wouldn't want it to be a case of not believing the other, but some reasoning, maybe the other just wouldn't be convinced, because they saw their thing.  Then, boom, Jack tries to take over the world.  Or something.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, shoetingstar said:

That would be a welcome twist! Except, the boys can have good evil-dar when the writers allow them too. So there must be a reason they switch teams and later get on the same page. Like maybe his powers effect them differently, blinding them at different times to the full story?

I actually wonder if Jack's powers made Dean see Mary burn alive again. Like maybe Jack's existence is just fucking with the whole universe in ways we don't even know yet.

[shoetingstar]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I actually wonder if Jack's powers made Dean see Mary burn alive again. Like maybe Jack's existence is just fucking with the whole universe in ways we don't even know yet.

Interesting! I'm sure that dream...(vision, perhaps?) factored into him accepting that "Mom's dead-again."

Along with grief, Im now wondering if Dean always believed that Mary's stay couldn't be permanent, but only fleeting at best. Her not dying would have been the surprise.

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Why didn't the angel banishing sigil work on the nasty angel in the next room?  I don't think it was ever shown to be room-specific (in fact, I seem to remember it would blow away all angels in a particular radius, whether you wanted them gone or not.)  But maybe I missed something (or the radius depends on how large the sigil is).

I think, originally, it blew angels away within a certain radius--seems like that's how it worked for Anna, anyway--but, the last few years it seems to only work if the angel is within view of the thing. They seem to be waiting for them to enter the room nowadays.

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Why didn't anyone think of asking Jack to heal the sheriff's son?  The angel had just told Sam that Jack could do "almost" anything (except bring Cas back to life), but I'd think a simple healing would be no trouble.  I can understand Jack not knowing his own powers (or how to do it) but why didn't Sam or Dean say, "just try. See if you can do it" (just like Dean asked amnesiac-Cas  to "remember" how to exorcise demons with a touch.)  

I wondered that originally too--or, I figured that's what they would do, anyway--but then I thought about it and they don't know what Jack can and can't do and he seems to have little control over it all, so it's probably best not to use that kid as guinea pig...Jack could end up killing him instead of healing him.

[catrox14]

FFFFFF /gross sobbing

 

Quote

 

justanotheridijiton

4x01 // 13x01

 

https://justanotheridijiton.tumblr.com/post/166482516599/justanotheridijiton-4x01-13x01

[Bobcatkitten]

Interesting that being half-angel Jack hears angel radio but the angel blade didn't work on him and when Sam did the blood/marker thing it didn't blast him anywhere. 

Dean looked pretty bad this episode, very tired. I hope we don't get that for a full season. I saw somewhere they said they are fully mopey the whole time. I don't think I could take a whole year of that. 

[Diane]

Just now, scribe95 said:

Interesting that being half-angel Jack hears angel radio but the angel blade didn't work on him and when Sam did the blood/marker thing it didn't blast him anywhere. 

Dean looked pretty bad this episode, very tired. I hope we don't get that for a full season. I saw somewhere they said they are fully mopey the whole time. I don't think I could take a whole year of that. 

They said they are not mopey all the time. 

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

Interesting that being half-angel Jack hears angel radio but the angel blade didn't work on him and when Sam did the blood/marker thing it didn't blast him anywhere. 

Dean looked pretty bad this episode, very tired. I hope we don't get that for a full season. I saw somewhere they said they are fully mopey the whole time. I don't think I could take a whole year of that. 

I think there's precedent for that.  Human Anna could hear angel radio.  Though I don't think human Cas could, maybe somebody else remembers that better. 

[SueB]

The blast definitely effected him.  He went flow-veiny.  But not enough to zap him.  

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, SueB said:

The blast definitely effected him.  He went flow-veiny.  But not enough to zap him.  

what's flow-veiny? Besides a super cool word.

[SueB]

Oh... I meant glow-veiny.  His veins glowed that orange-ish power light.

[Wayward Son]

29 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

Interesting that being half-angel Jack hears angel radio but the angel blade didn't work on him and when Sam did the blood/marker thing it didn't blast him anywhere. 

I would imagine it’s because Jack is half archangel rather than half Angel. It would take an archangel blade to kill him I’d say. A regular angel blade worked on the nephilim Cas killed back in s8. 

[Katy M]

53 minutes ago, SueB said:

Oh... I meant glow-veiny.  His veins glowed that orange-ish power light.

Well, now I'm bummed.  I was imagining his veins flowing around in his arms, making the skin go up and down.  I have no idea what I was imagining.  Glowing seems to be a let down, though:)

[DittyDotDot]

16 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think there's precedent for that.  Human Anna could hear angel radio.  Though I don't think human Cas could, maybe somebody else remembers that better. 

Cass tells Hael he can still hear angel radio when he was human--something about them being confused and scared after the fall. I always thought it was weird Cass could still hear the angels talking, but couldn't hear Dean's prayers, though. 

And, can I just say, again, how how annoying I find it everyone in-show is calling it "angel radio" now. Dean, sure, but angels adopting Dean's nickname is just silly.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

And, can I just say, again, how how annoying I find it everyone in-show is calling it "angel radio" now. Dean, sure, but angels adopting Dean's nickname is just silly.

Yeah, you'd think angels would have had their own name for their communications system.  

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Yeah, you'd think angels would have had their own name for their communications system.  

Sure, but it's probably in Enochian and there's no direct translation, so when speaking English, they've adopted angel radio, because I'm sure the waves they use are similar to radio waves anyway.

[SueB]

19 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Yeah, you'd think angels would have had their own name for their communications system.  

My headcanon: when Cas was leading his 'army' against Rapheal, he called it Angel Radio "as in ...call out to me on Angel Radio" or "radio silence" kind of orders.  Then for his multi-month stint as Godstiel he probably used those terms.  So... the Angels adapted.  

Before that, it was 'seek revelation'.  Kinda weaksauce of a name IMO.  

[DittyDotDot]

23 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Sure, but it's probably in Enochian and there's no direct translation, so when speaking English, they've adopted angel radio, because I'm sure the waves they use are similar to radio waves anyway.

But, I bet it's funnier in Enochian! ;)

[millennium]

I won't debate the quality of the episode.  Supernatural is like going to McDonald's.  It's pretty much the same thing every time, occasionally slightly better than usual, but typically the same.   And that's what a lot of people like about McDonalds.  It's dependable.  You know what to expect, and you can be reasonably guaranteed it will meet your expectations no matter how often or how rarely you stop in.

I find it reassuring to tune in to the first episode of Season 13 and find Sam and Dean exactly the same as we left them at the end of Season 12.   No bullshit time-jumps or any of the gimmicks other series use.  We pick up right where we left off and move on from there.   You'd never know even an hour has passed between seasons, let alone months.  Works for me.   Maybe it's because the world seems in such disarray these days, but I really appreciate the consistency.

These two guys, Jared and Jensen, are probably two of the most underrated actors working in television right now.   I think they do a great job with not-so-great material.   Every week.  Usually by the end of each season I'm ready to proclaim that the show should be put out of its misery but the truth is my world would feel emptier without Sam and Dean in it.

That's all.

[Hanahope]

Yay to be current.  Almost.

Of courSe Dean shoots first. Ask questions later. Though hard to blame him after seeing Cas die and Mary get pulled into the alt universe with Lucifer.  I’m glad both will be around at least for a while.  I hope Mary gets to meet up with alt Bobby.

not sure yet about jack, though can’t blame him for attacking so much with dead shooting at him first thing.  I had thought after jack heard about chuck god bringing back Cas he’d try himself, since he knows he’s got powers.

[takalotti]

Jack just saying "Father?" to Sam, Dean, and the pirate statue, made me giggle because all I could think was, "It’s a Supernatural tribute to Are You My Mother?" By the way, did Jack really just take off down the road without looking around the house? How did he not see Cas? Though I guess he doesn’t know what Cas looks like, so he may have found him, asked "Father?", gotten no response, and moved on from there. Kinda wish they had done that. It would have creepy as fuck. Creepier than those meaningless sinister smiles, at least. 

 

I really liked the tone of...

 

D: Can he teleport?

S: What?

D: The kid. Does he have wings?

S: I don’t know.

 

... especially with Sam. I don’t often gush over Jared, but he really gave off the dazed, lost, scared, "we really have no idea what we're dealing with, do we?" vibes with just these two lines and it was great.

 

Not important, but since there was some question about when Cas was moved to the dining room table, just wanted to chime in that I think Dean and Sam moved him after the exchange I quoted above. Dean was shown walking away from Cas outside, so I think it’s reasonable to believe he went straight from there to when we see him join Sam and Jack. I don’t think it was right after they woke up because the way they ran outside and the urgency of the teleporting questions don’t jive with that. But then they aren’t shown getting right into Baby. So I think they had a "What do we do now?" moment and regrouped for a second. Either Jack was on foot and they would easily catch up to him, or he had wings and leaving right away wouldn’t make a difference. I could see them not wanting to leave Cas outside before they go. I don’t think it was the angels because their actions and exchange conveyed that they just found him on the table. Plus Dean and Sam didn’t have any kind of "Someone was here!" reaction later.

 

Cliché, I know, but I thought it was heartbreaking that Dean couldn’t even say the words "Cas is dead." Also, I realize I may be reading too much into it, but I felt like there was a lot going unsaid when Dean told the sheriff, "Angels are real, too," like his brain followed that with 'and now one's dead' or he’s remembering the moment he learned angels are real. And I agree with all that's been said about how perfect all of Jensen's expressions were while preparing Cas for the pyre. Side note: I like the unspoken stuff better than the blatant stuff like when Dean prayed (not saying I didn’t like the prayer scene, I just like the subtle things more).

 

Why did Sam asking Jack if he could open the door to the other world again trigger him to think about finding his father? Was it just the writers being coy, not wanting Jack to answer the question and wanting to reveal who Jack considers his father to be? Or did the idea of reopening the door make Jack think, "What would that look like? Oh, that could be dangerous. I should ask my father for advice on this one. I need to find him."

 

I get that the writers are trying to create/force conflict and drama by having the boys be so polar opposite about Jack, and I’m not saying it would make any difference to Dean, but I wish they’d have Sam give examples for why he doesn’t think Jack is default-evil. I’d think the last one would carry a lot of weight with Dean, making him think Jack can’t be all bad.

"Dean, before you shot at him, he wasn’t doing anything. I came in and he didn’t automatically lash out at me."

"Dean, after he explained that things just happen when he’s scared, the first thing he said was 'I’m sorry. Will you tell them that I’m sorry?'"

"He doesn’t consider Lucifer his father. He says he chose Cas to be his father."

 

By the way, why did Jack apologize? Was that something he learned from (being) his mom? Or did he learn that you should apologize for hurting someone after Sam apologized for tasering him? 

 

Drunk!Angel was just all around weird and out of place. Not just for telling the sheriff to shoot Dean, but she wasn’t unfeelingly robotic at all. The other two angels were, so why not her? Her eyes glowed blue and she spewed white light when she was killed, so I don’t think she was demon working with angels. 

 

When Jack touched Kelly's toes, I didn’t really get the impression that he was trying to bring her back. Not saying he couldn’t have been, but it was at least unclear to me. It just looked more like a "This was my mom" moment. Also it would have been nice for us to see Jack seeing Cas, not all wrapped up. It just seems like a moment we should have gotten.

Edited October 31, 2017 by takalotti

[catrox14]

I was rewatching this and the scene wherein Dean prepares Cas' body for the pyre, I think I detect a bit of of Dean's Family Theme being played ever so slowly in the score. It's kind of hidden but I think it's there. 

What do you guys think?

[KSenniaV]

Hello, this is my first post on this board. I'm behind a lot, so I just watched this, today, and I'm feeling really disappointed. The whole eppy was so dark and depressing and it didn't leave me with anything to look forward to or hope for. I hate that everyone I cared about is dead now, except for Dean and Sam, of course. I hate Lucifer and am annoyed that he's back, and Mary is just annoying, so I don't care about her, either. 

I think this season is going to be a struggle to slog through, but maybe this season will have a few decent episodes somehow. I don't know. I'm sorry to be so negative. I just had to vent. 

Kyle XY is okay, and I guess I'll grudgingly come to like him since there isn't anyone else around. His sharing candy with the stoner kid was cute. Um, that's the only thing I can think right now that's positive. I was holding out hope to the last second that Cas would come back, but nope. I'm not sure why Dean isn't allowed to win fights or kill anything anymore (it's like he's a stormtrooper) but he always nails his emotional scenes. I hope Jack does turn out to be evil so that Dean can win a small victory and at least be right about something. He did convince the sheriff that they were monster hunters, so I guess that's a win. :)  

[The Companion]

 

On 10/12/2017 at 9:12 PM, companionenvy said:

I really liked it. 

Jensen was fantastic, and sold me on this not just being  a retread of other grieving Dean scenes. The anger, the immediate, horrified acceptance that his loved ones were gone, the prayer to Chuck -- we've seen elements of this kind of reaction before, but this is distinctly different from, for instance, the Dean we get after Sam is killed at the end of S2. 

 

Agreed. This felt like true grief and distinct from similar scenes. When he couldn't say Castiel was dead? 😭

On 10/13/2017 at 2:30 PM, DittyDotDot said:

Right? I'm just saying that Lucifer ain't that bright either and I found it funny the pot was calling the kettle black. I mean, instead of just going and getting his Spawn, he decided to follow the two guys--who already got him locked in a cage for years after derailing the plan he'd been working on for...well, ever--through a portal when they clearly wanted him to follow them through that portal...with that sort of out-of-the-box thinking, I'm surprised he didn't get his spawn, ya know? 😉

Haha. So true. He could've grabbed the little/big guy and went anywhere.

On 10/13/2017 at 9:00 AM, MysteryGuest said:

I think this is a bit different though, since Mary went through the portal with Lucifer.  It's a pretty reasonable thought process to assume that he would have killed her immediately, considering his MO.  But I also think that it's out of character for Dean not to try to save her, no matter what.  I get that he's pretty shell-shocked right now after losing everyone, but I just don't think he'd give up on Mary until they'd exhausted every possibility.

 

I am having a lot of trouble with Dean's insistence that Mary is dead. I don't know. It just doesn't feel like him to me.

On 10/13/2017 at 6:31 PM, smree said:

 

Yeah I thought it was fair enough Dean not mentioning Rowena during his prayer but I'm pissed with the show for killing such a strong character and actress off screen and also her death getting lost in the season finale deaths. 

Agreed that it would have been weird to mention her but that it just highlights why it was such a weird choice to kill her off screen. It's like the writeoff you get if someone gets arrested for something heinous or unceremoniously fired for choking a coworker or something. 

On 10/14/2017 at 6:46 AM, DittyDotDot said:

Well, she had seen Jack power up already too. Plus, she seemed like she was of an open-minded sort. Earlier in the episode when her deputy was calling the Spawn "weird", she said something to the effect of, everyone is weird in their own way. 

I really liked her for that. She felt compassionate to me. To not lock him up and make assumptions. 

 

Overall, I thought this was solid. I am not enthusiastic about the "nature vs. nurture" debate, particularly since we know Lucifer's original nature doesn't match his current behavior, but I like the actor well enough. JA obviously knocked it out of the park and I thought JP had a good, quiet grief thing going 

 

[Katy M]

14 hours ago, The Companion said:

I am having a lot of trouble with Dean's insistence that Mary is dead. I don't know. It just doesn't feel like him to me.

He also declared Cas dead when he came back from Purgatory, regardless of not actually seeing him die.

 

14 hours ago, The Companion said:

Overall, I thought this was solid. I am not enthusiastic about the "nature vs. nurture" debate

Me neither.  I'd be more up for it on a different show.