GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Oracle42]

I don't think Liz is a bad person, but I don't think the character was ever a good fit for the "good girl" tag

[ulkis]

30 minutes ago, UYI said:

Is this it? Carly slaps Liz, at least. If not, then even on the SJB!Carly YouTube channel that scene is a BITCH to find. 

Yes, thank you! I couldn't find it because I thought it happened after the miscarriage. Doesn't seem so harsh now.

ETA: Nevermind, it isn't. Darn it. I thought it was because that scene had a rocking chair in it too. Darn it, you'd think that would have been uploaded to youtube like 5 times.

Edited September 8, 2016 by ulkis

[UYI]

6 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Yes, thank you! I couldn't find it because I thought it happened after the miscarriage. Doesn't seem so harsh now.

ETA: Nevermind, it isn't. Darn it. I thought it was because that scene had a rocking chair in it too. Darn it, you'd think that would have been uploaded to youtube like 5 times.

I wasn't sure, because I never heard the words "meal ticket", even though I SWEAR I've seen it at least once before. And wasn't the "meal ticket" scene AFTER she miscarried? 

ETA: I read your mind! :)

Edited September 8, 2016 by UYI

[HeatLifer]

16 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Robin's place was never a good fit for her. Liz isn't really a nice person/girl

Well, yeah. It was never going to work. But that's what the show wanted. Jason/Liz, Carly/Liz, Sonny/Liz. They wanted those similar dynamics and it just failed. 

12 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

It took a while for Carly to wear on Robin to the point that Robin would engage in snarky bitch fights with Carly. 

Robin let so much go for the sake of Jason and Michael. It was only when Jason was like, "Oh, btw, Carly will have to live near us until Michael is at least 8" when she was all, "Bye, bitch."

[ulkis]

Just now, HeatLifer said:

Robin let so much go for the sake of Jason and Michael. It was only when Jason was like, "Oh, btw, Carly will have to live near us until Michael is at least 8" when she was all, "Bye, bitch."

Another reason I never felt bad about Liz using the meal ticket line . . . that IS how Carly treated Michael. "neener neener Sonny, Jason will always choose meeee and he chose me over Robin cause I am Michael's mama! Okay man! Deal with it baby!" Hell, even Sonny said she pimped Michael. "pimp" was his exact word.

The golddigger aspect was b.s. though. All of a sudden in 1999 they acted like Carly was interested in cash too.

[HeatLifer]

4 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Another reason I never felt bad about Liz using the meal ticket line . . . that IS how Carly treated Michael. "neener neener Sonny, Jason will always choose meeee and he chose me over Robin cause I am Michael's mama! Okay man! Deal with it baby!" Hell, even Sonny said she pimped Michael. "pimp" was his exact word.

The golddigger aspect was b.s. though. All of a sudden in 1999 they acted like Carly was interested in cash too.

No, that started in 1998 when she first moved in with Jason and started spending his money to go shopping, etc. 

[ulkis]

Just now, HeatLifer said:

No, that started in 1998 when she first moved in with Jason and started spending his money to go shopping, etc. 

Is that when she got the fur coat? I didn't think it was so bad in 1998 but I remember there was some scene where she was entranced by Helena's furs or something.

[HeatLifer]

The fur coat came in late '98, I believe. Earlier was when she would spend his cash on clothes for herself, the penthouse, Michael. She would always be shopping and had like, bags everywhere.

[SlovakPrincess]

Well, she was bent out of shape about Bobbie giving her up for adoption when Carly found out Bobbie was married to "rich doctor" Tony.  

Or maybe she just really wished she could've been raised in a brothel?  What fun!

But being at least somewhat money grubbing was always part of her, I think.  

[dubbel zout]

31 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I don't think Liz is a bad person, but I don't think the character was ever a good fit for the "good girl" tag

Grossly, the rape was supposed to solve that.

9 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

But being at least somewhat money grubbing was always part of her, I think.  

I agree. The Bensons weren't poor, but I don't think there was a lot of extra cash lying around. Carly wouldn't listen to anyone tell her that if Bobbie had kept her things would have been worse, though. She was completely obsessed with the rich doctor's wife Bobbie was and refused to consider the teen prostitute Bobbie had been.

[HeatLifer]

Since we were talking about this awhile back...

[SlovakPrincess]

This is the "meal ticket" scene.   It is definitely after the miscarriage, because Liz says "I was at the hospital when you had your miscarriage, and I saw what it did to Sonny.  He lost a child - all you lost was a meal ticket."    

Y'all might've had a hard time finding / remembering this because it featured FakeLucky#1 and you were trying to block all that shit out ... lol.  

 

 

 

This is around the time I started to be on the Barge most of the time .... got tired of all the toxic people, and constant bitchy fights.  Also, the mob stuff had really run out of steam for me, and I just didn't find the characters very fun any more.  

[SlovakPrincess]

50 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Since we were talking about this awhile back...

She does know she can just hang out with KMc and Mo anywhere, without having to appear on a show that is now a pathetically sad and horrifically mutated shadow of its former self, right?

 

Also, what's with the naked ladies backdrop on KMc's Twitter page?  So many questions ...

Edited September 9, 2016 by SlovakPrincess

[ulkis]

Thanks! Hmm, I could have sworn it began with Carly finding Liz in a rocking chair, but I must have conflated this scene with the scene UYI posted.

[HeatLifer]

8 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Also, what's with the naked ladies backdrop on KMc's Twitter page?  So many questions ...

It's a pic of a piece of art at a museum. I saw it on her Insta one day.

Lawd, Carly and Liz were so insufferable. And Yelly McYellerson is such a sore thumb.

[SlovakPrincess]

4 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

It's a pic of a piece of art at a museum. I saw it on her Insta one day.

Lawd, Carly and Liz were so insufferable. And Yelly McYellerson is such a sore thumb.

 

Heh, not being a prude or anything, I just clicked on the Twitter link and was like "what's that in the background of her page-- OH! hello!"

 

Part of my hatred of Liz in that scene has to do with the fact that I hate her hair that way, LOL.  

It's sort of amazing how many hours of screen time have been wasted on women sniping (and usually having very repetitive arguments)  over Sonny or Jason.  Robin / Carly over Jason,  Liz / Carly over Jason and over Sonny,  Sam / Carly over Sonny and over Jason,  Sam / Liz over Jason.  I'm sure there were some Brenda / Carly fights over Sonny at some point.   Ladies, they are not worth it!!   

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

 Robin / Carly over Jason,  Liz / Carly over Jason and over Sonny,  Sam / Carly over Sonny and over Jason,  Sam / Liz over Jason.  I'm sure there were some Brenda / Carly fights over Sonny at some point.   Ladies, they are not worth it!!  

Preach it!

The Robin/Carly crap didn't get bad until the very end and then Robin left and I was like :D. I was actually always grateful I got to enjoy Robin/Jason without a *true* third party, as in, Robin never had to question if he was in love with her. 

It reminds me of when Robin was talking to Carly about Lisa and was like, "You were just an annoyance." Heh.

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

 I'm sure there were some Brenda / Carly fights over Sonny at some point.

Try constantly. And every time Brenda came back, they got into it. Nothing changes.

[ulkis]

Were they already setting up the seeds for Sonny/Alexis in 2000? Y/n?

ETA: oh gosh, I TOTALLY forgot about them making Hannah Roy's daughter. That was pointless.

Edited September 9, 2016 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

2 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Try constantly. And every time Brenda came back, they got into it. Nothing changes.

Oh, yeah. That battle caught steam quick. In Brenda's defense, she did hate Carly from the jump, before Sonny.

[SlovakPrincess]

How did they explain how Roy was back, after Bobbie watched him bleed to death in '79?   Not that it would matter on today's horrific fun house of a show, but back in 2000, they were trying to maintain a tiny bit of realism still ...

[Harmony233]

29 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Oh, yeah. That battle caught steam quick. In Brenda's defense, she did hate Carly from the jump, before Sonny.

I Remeber her hating Carly because of Robin originally.

[Melgaypet]

I think he was only supposed to be mostly dead? And the FBI whisked him away into Witness Protection. And then he kinda became an FBI agent/informant. And somehow Hannah came into it? I dunno, clearly my memory's for shit. I hated Roy, so probably I'm blocking him out. I was pissed they got rid of Original Recipe Jerry Jacks for Roy. I actually held that grudge against A Martinez until he showed up and was awesome with Robin Strasser on OLTL.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Melgaypet

[KerleyQ]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Grossly, the rape was supposed to solve that.

And that just reminded me of that awful "what happened to that girl..." line from Lucky, like he preferred her freshly raped.  So, so gross.  

[HeatLifer]

18 minutes ago, Harmony233 said:

I Remeber her hating Carly because of Robin originally.

Yeah, she thought that Jason cheated on Robin with Carly, which resulted in Michael.

[Melgaypet]

2 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

And that just reminded me of that awful "what happened to that girl..." line from Lucky, like he preferred her freshly raped.  So, so gross.  

Not only gross, but inaccurate! He had another line in the aftermath - to Ethan, I think - like "on Valentine's Day, a long time ago, I fell in love with Elizabeth." No! Lucky and Elizabeth fell in love, slowly, that following summer as they helped each other through traumatizing situations - her rape and his finding out Luke raped Laura.* He admired her strength and relied on it himself! Their relationship was not just White Knight Lucky and Fragile Flower Liz! [/crazed inner L&L2 shipper]

*Not that I'm equating those two experiences at all.

[TeeVee329]

Here's the scene where Brenda and Carly (Sarah Joy Brown Edition) meet for the first time:

[HeatLifer]

Carly. "I had noooo idea what my lie would do..." Girl.......

[jsbt]

4 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

It's also when the show wanted to plop Liz right into Robin's place. Even Carly's dialogue is exactly the same. I saw it the first time, show.

That's why I never responded to Jason and Liz back in the day; it seemed like a carbon copy. I was like, 'is this not just Robin again?' I didn't buy it. I didn't respond to Herbst and Burton together until 2006(?) when they finally did the Dew with those two. Because by then the relationship had some more unique nuance to it; Liz had become a mother and a wife, she'd had a family and lost a lot of her dreams, and here she was finally having what she'd never had with the guy who got away right before her life completely changed.

Those scenes with them in that blackout were hot as shit and I was all about those two for awhile despite my seething Jason hatred, but the show backed out of it. Went with easy mob shenanigans and Jason/Sam, who I always found incredibly boring. Today, of course, Liason is a shitshow and Jasam are passable to me.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

Brenda: Going back to Sonny Corinthos was the biggest mistake I ever made!

Me: Siiigh. 

[jsbt]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Were they already setting up the seeds for Sonny/Alexis in 2000? Y/n?

Not that I recall. IMO that pairing grew out of the actors' interest but also JFP in 2001 - she always loved pairing the professional women of a certain age with the men she perceived as the hunks. That's laudable to a point, but the problem was that the stories were often terrible, like when Jill and Megan turned Alexis into a stammering, oversexed fussbudget for that story (a caricature Guza's team viciously rejected when they returned, before they spent the next 10 years reinforcing it until it became an inescapable part of the character).

Furthermore, on OLTL, AW, etc. JFP seemed to overidentify with the women and often style them like her onscreen (both Nora and Téa on OLTL got severe short haircuts matching Jill's own and were paired with JFP favorites Kale Browne and John Bolger, as did fellow Jill doppelganger Linda Dano; Jill was also dating Browne IRL). It was weird.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jsbt

[ulkis]

9 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Carly. "I had noooo idea what my lie would do..." Girl.......

I liked it when Carly blamed her miscarriage on Robin outing the paternity at the 2000 Nurses Ball. Girl, whut?

Poor Lila held fucking hostage while Carly talked about how gentle and kind Sonny could be. I forgot how many of those scenes there were. God damn it Lila, summon a guard and tell her to go away. 

I'm also wondering if they actually considered a Liz/Sonny hook -up. Bleh.

Edited September 9, 2016 by ulkis

[jsbt]

I always thought they had when Michele ValJean was HWing briefly (she adored Liz) but people have told me repeatedly this is not the case, that they had actually intended for Liz to be Sonny's - wait for it - sister.

[TeeVee329]

...how would that have worked?  No Name instead of Janine, Liz instead of Courtney?

[jsbt]

I haven't a clue. I think other people know more than me, they usually do. But this was all way before Courtney and Janine, that all came from JFP and Megan McTavish.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jsbt

[HeatLifer]

20 minutes ago, jsbt said:

That's why I never responded to Jason and Liz back in the day; it seemed like a carbon copy. I was like, 'is this not just Robin again?' I didn't buy it.

Yep, same. It was way too obviously trying to hit the same exact beats and relationships and even things Robin/Jason used to do together. I was like, nope. Been there, done that. I'll take the OG recipe, thanks.

20 minutes ago, jsbt said:

scenes with them in that blackout were hot as shit and I was all about those two for awhile despite my seething Jason hatred, but the show backed out of it. Went with easy mob shenanigans and Jason/Sam, who I always found incredibly boring. Today, of course, Liason is a shitshow and Jasam are passable to me.

I hated Jason too much to ship him with anyone at that point. He was way too abusive and it was all about his group of women who would follow him around like lost kittens. Then the second they disobeyed, they were out! No soup for you! Also, SBu just stopped caring. Like, he'd have a few scenes here and there, but then he'd phone it in. I've just never seen him give it his ALL like he did during JnR. 

15 minutes ago, ulkis said:

when Carly blamed her miscarriage on Robin outing the paternity at the 2000 Nurses Ball. Girl, whut?

Carly blamed Robin if her toast was too burnt. People always ask, "Which chick did Carly hate the most?" The answer is Robin. Always Robin. I think she always believed that was the reason Jason never loved her.

[ulkis]

2 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I hated Jason too much to ship him with anyone at that point. He was way too abusive and it was all about his group of women who would follow him around like lost kittens. Then the second they disobeyed, they were out! No soup for you! Also, SBu just stopped caring. Like, he'd have a few scenes here and there, but then he'd phone it in. I've just never seen him give it his ALL like he did during JnR. 

Yup, same. I think they had been dropping anvils it was gonna happen but I didn't notice and I was all noooo Liz wtf where is this coming from?!

Little did I know.

[jsbt]

If we're talking 2006, I saw it coming but couldn't believe they would deign to let lowly Liz get the golden gundick. I thought they would pull away at the last moment.

[nilyank]

Quote

...how would that have worked?  No Name instead of Janine, Liz instead of Courtney?

Probably Liz's no-name mother would have cheated on Jeff with Mike hence why Liz always felt like the black sheep of her family as a teen. 

However I would have hated it because the show already laid the groundwork for Gia to be Sonny's long lost sister. She was Taggert's sister who hated Sonny and grew up idolizing Sonny's stepfather Deke. Gia and her family were actually from Brooklyn (not necessarily Bensonhurst). Finally, when Gia's mom visited Port Charles, she acknowledged that she knew Mike from back in the day.

Instead we got stuck with blonde snow-globe enthusiast. 

Edited September 9, 2016 by nilyank

[jsbt]

I assume it would've been Liz in place of Gia, and they did that instead. I believe MVJ was committed to Gia, Taggert and their mother, Florence. I really dug that family.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jsbt

[melody16]

Jnr and early liason arent really comparable, I think. Jnr had a full blown relationship. Liason kissed twice? But early liason resonated with me because it was the whole unrequited, bad timing, longing from afar thing. 

[HeatLifer]

10 minutes ago, melody16 said:

Jnr and early liason arent really comparable, I think. Jnr had a full blown relationship. Liason kissed twice?

Oh, you're right, I personally wasn't comparing that aspect. JnR were practically married and were a family. Liason were kinda a will they, won't they pair. 

[UYI]

4 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

This is the "meal ticket" scene.   It is definitely after the miscarriage, because Liz says "I was at the hospital when you had your miscarriage, and I saw what it did to Sonny.  He lost a child - all you lost was a meal ticket."    

Y'all might've had a hard time finding / remembering this because it featured FakeLucky#1 and you were trying to block all that shit out ... lol.  

 

 

 

This is around the time I started to be on the Barge most of the time .... got tired of all the toxic people, and constant bitchy fights.  Also, the mob stuff had really run out of steam for me, and I just didn't find the characters very fun any more.  

So she DIDN'T slap her for "meal ticket" line. Interesting.

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Try constantly. And every time Brenda came back, they got into it. Nothing changes.

Although that didn't start until 2002, as Brenda had been "dead" for a year when Hate!Sex occurred. 

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, UYI said:

So she DIDN'T slap her for "meal ticket" line. Interesting.

No, she did. There was ANOTHER scene, because it was at the penthouse and Liz was sauntering around, and sitting in a rocking chair that was meant for Carly and the baby. That is when Carly slapped Liz and "meal ticket" was uttered there for sure, too.

[UYI]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

No, she did. There was ANOTHER scene, because it was at the penthouse and Liz was sauntering around, and sitting in a rocking chair that was meant for Carly and the baby. That is when Carly slapped Liz and "meal ticket" was uttered there for sure, too.

I posted that scene above. I didn't hear the words "meal ticket".

[ulkis]

3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

No, she did. There was ANOTHER scene, because it was at the penthouse and Liz was sauntering around, and sitting in a rocking chair that was meant for Carly and the baby. That is when Carly slapped Liz and "meal ticket" was uttered there for sure, too.

God damn it! So I didn't remember it wrong. How can that scene not be up??

1 minute ago, UYI said:

I posted that scene above. I didn't hear the words "meal ticket".

I think there is another scene. Liz is actually sitting in the chair in the dark and Carly comes in. I would say I misremembered but Wendy recalled the same thing I did.

[WendyCR72]

Huh. I guess my memory IS faulty.  :-)  But I remembered the slap and the rocking chair! So half credit!  :-)  But how hilarious it is to see Liz get high and mighty considering she basically did become a Junior Carly in the grass is greener/love department!

Maybe that's why they hate each other: Too much alike.

ETA: And I LOATHE Carly, so this is not meant as a defense of her, either.

[UYI]

So there's THREE scenes where Carly and Liz fight/slap each other/use the phrase meal ticket? My brain is spinning.

That SJB!Carly YT page has every single scene of hers up. The question is what title is it under.

Edited September 9, 2016 by UYI

[WendyCR72]

2 minutes ago, UYI said:

So there's THREE scenes where Carly and Liz fight/slap each other/use the phrase meal ticket? My brain is spinning.

Now I'm not certain. LOL! But I could SWEAR there was another scene. Maybe I'm just bloodthirsty?

[HeatLifer]

Pardon the interruption, but I forgot how horrible Liz/Jason/Courtney were. They always had to make Liz like, beg for Jason. Makes me nauseous. Zander made me feel better, though.