GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Chairperson Meow]

31 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

They wouldn't have had to retcon a thing if they'd given RoHo another character. I will never understand why he had to come on as Franco. It's the dumbest thing Ron did, IMO, and that bar is really high.

Yes. And then after giving ME like 5 characters to play on GH (McBain, Silas,Caleb, and Finn and Michael the priest and Stephen Clay) (was Michael the priest on GH or just PC?) They can't give Roger another character, but claim he's soap royalty? That's dumb AF IMO.  Just kill Franco, give Roger a good hairdo, and let him be another character.  They did it with JVP.

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

I think it's kinda a tangled, complicated subject for some. Yes, Michael's actual shit rapist is to blame for the rape. I'm certainly not arguing that. But there's also another important part of the scenario which is Sonny/Carly/Jason put Michael into a dangerous situation from the start. Sonny knew this and acknowledged this. Jason knew this. Carly knew this. They KNEW their enemies, whoever they may be, would come after the people they loved, their family, to get back at them. It's why Sonny left Brenda, it's why Jason left the mob for a blip, it's why they had bodyguards, it's why they had bullet-proof windows. 

The idea that something could happen to Michael or any of the kids, whether that's being stalked, kidnapped, shot, whatever, should never have been a shock to any of them. That's the price they paid.

Yes! That's what I mean. What's messed up is that Carly/Sonny/Jason stole Michael from AJ and then when Morgan got close to Jax and Dante, they too were dirtied in their eyes via the parental units.  It's like they want all the kids, but none of the work. Sonny can coo at Avery all she wants, but we all know if she'd go against him he'd threaten her too like he's done with his loved ones.  And I don't get nor like how Jason gave up Jake, but now he's all doting dad.  Sam should have kids with someone non mob.

[nilyank]

Quote

But Sonny and Carly were so paranoid about the cops that they concocted that stupid coverup, which of course made everything worse. That's what the judge punished Michael for, which was wrong as far as that goes. Talk about betrayal: Sonny and Carly were the really ones who sent Michael to jail with their stupid plaaaan.

You could add Jason to the list because he was the first one who showed up at the cabin and disposed off all the evidence and the body that would have proved that Michael killed in self-defense. Sonny found out what happened only after Jason got rid of all the evidence. Of course, he stupidly approved what Jason did, but Jason was the first idiot to start the cover-up.

[UYI]

5 hours ago, ulkis said:

I guess I could do a lot of research and figure this all out but would somebody mind taking a moment to tell me:

#1 - What Franco did re: sexually assaulting/not sexually assaulting Sam?

#2 - And also how he allowed/set up Michael to be raped?

TIA!

When Michael was in prison, Franco told an inmate named Carter to rape him. Later, another headwriter changed it that Franco told said inmate to protect Michael, but the message got mixed up and the man thought Franco meant for him to rape Michael. The re-write was scorned by the audience, so much so that the writer complained in a magazine that the audience didn't have to like it but they had to accept that it was officially what had happened on the show.

Re: Sam, on Sam and Jason's honeymoon Franco drugged them both, locked Jason in a room and Franco set up a camera in there so he could watch what going on in the room with Sam and Franco. Franco undressed Sam, put her naked body on the bed and then covered the camera so Jason wouldn't know what was happening. Sam wound up pregnant and Franco left a message implying he could be the father, so Sam thought she had been raped for about two years until Franco revealed he didn't actually rape her.

Did Garin Wolf do the rewrite involving Michael's rape, or was it Ron? I know Guza wrote the original story. 

Edited August 13, 2016 by UYI

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

They wouldn't have had to retcon a thing if they'd given RoHo another character. I will never understand why he had to come on as Franco. It's the dumbest thing Ron did, IMO, and that bar is really high.

The list of Dumb Ron Decisions is too damn long. He ruined all characters and countless relationships, which includes JaSam, Lante, Liason, Scrubs, Carly/Michael/Sonny, Michael/AJ, Morgan/Michael, Nikolas/Everyone, Anna/Robin, Patrick/Liz, Laura/Liz, I could go on. Weirdly, one of the only relationships he preserved was Jason/Robin, and I have my own theories on that.

[NiqueAlexis]

47 minutes ago, UYI said:

Did Garin Wolf do the rewrite involving Michael's rape, or was it Ron? I know Guza wrote the original story. 

Ron. Franco was dead until he brought him back from the dead with Roger Howarth playing him.

[Oracle42]

20 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

There was no rap to be taken, given that Michael bludgeoned Claudia in self-defense. But Sonny and Carly were so paranoid about the cops that they concocted that stupid coverup, which of course made everything worse. That's what the judge punished Michael for, which was wrong as far as that goes.

Not really. The judge actually went pretty easy on him considering that he confessed to a murder and all of the evidence that he might've used to argue self-defense was destroyed. 

20 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Re: the bolded. Wow, the show-writer actually went to a magazine and said that? Maybe if they didn't so blatantly retcon important things and then not even do it well, the show wouldn't have this problem. THIS is a lot of the reason why Franco won't be accepted by a large majority of the audience: the fact that he is a rapist/serial killer/sexual tormenter notwithstanding, the show wants to try and whitewash his horrible actions (he didn't want Michael raped! he didn't actually rape Sam! he had a brain tumor!) so it's not insane that he is alive and walking around town and basically in his victims' faces all the time.

And it was such an idiotic, badly done retcon. Franco had a videotape instructing Carter to go after Michael that he displayed publicly at the Francophenia art installation, so another videotape is just supposed to cancel that out?  It was dumb and lazy and it deserved to fail.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

Passanante and Altman aren't doing anything to improve things, either. All Franco does is whine about how everyone is so mean by expecting the worst from him. Gee, I wonder where that came from?

[ulkis]

4 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Re: the bolded. Wow, the show-writer actually went to a magazine and said that?

Well, it sounds extreme, but that particular writer loved to air his opinion and argue with fans, so it wasn't that unusual.

[LexieLily]

I'm a fairly new viewer, but somehow that doesn't surprise me.

[Asp Burger]

Was Michael's murder of Claudia self-defense? I could see a case for justifiable homicide, but I don't see how self-defense would work. I remember Michael finding Claudia and Carly at the cabin, Claudia having Josslyn (I think she was on her way out the door, carrying Josslyn in a basket, while Carly pleaded), and Michael pretty much just splitting Claudia's head open the second he got through the door, no questions asked, no direct threat to him made, no weapon on display from Claudia, no attempt to subdue her by less extreme methods, et cetera,...all while creepy "exotic" chanting music played. No apparent concern for the fact that she was holding his baby sister either, and the baby was going to fall to the floor. They caught a lucky break there, although if a Carly offspring had been dropped on its head, it might be hard to tell later on.  

Mind you, Drew Garrett played Michael as such a short-fused psychopath that he was almost always the most threatening character in any scene to me. (I can't remember if he ever ran up against Anthony Zacchara to test that out. ) 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Asp Burger

[Oracle42]

20 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

They wouldn't have had to retcon a thing if they'd given RoHo another character. I will never understand why he had to come on as Franco. It's the dumbest thing Ron did, IMO, and that bar is really high.

Because Todd. 

 

3 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Was Michael's murder of Claudia self-defense? I could see a case for justifiable homicide, but I don't see how self-defense would work.

I think they could have made a case for self-defense/defense of others, but yeah, DG's Michael looked like an angry psycho when he killed Claudia and I think the scary rage (and the natural distrust of the criminal class) is supposed to have been what prompted the cover-up

[ulkis]

3 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Was Michael's murder of Claudia self-defense? I could see a case for justifiable homicide, but I don't see how self-defense would work. I remember Michael finding Claudia and Carly at the cabin, Claudia having Josslyn (I think she was on her way out the door, carrying Josslyn in a basket, while Carly pleaded), and Michael pretty much just splitting Claudia's head open the second he got through the door, no questions asked, no direct threat to him made, no weapon on display from Claudia, no attempt to subdue her by less extreme methods, et cetera,...all while creepy "exotic" chanting music played. No apparent concern for the fact that she was holding his baby sister either, and the baby was going to fall to the floor. They caught a lucky break there, although if a Carly offspring had been dropped on its head, it might be hard to tell later on.  

Mind you, Drew Garrett played Michael as such a short-fused psychopath that he was almost always the most threatening character in any scene to me. (I can't remember if he ever ran up against Anthony Zacchara to test that out. ) 

Yeah, I agree that it wasn't self-defense. 

Michael was a total asshole, but I enjoyed his character. You could see Carly, Sonny and Jason's terrible parenting come home to roost and you could see how Michael turned out that way. That's one reason I'm not a huge fan of Michael now, because now Carly and Sonny look at him and think how awesome they raised him. Although they've backed down from that a bit. When Ron first started writing . . . well maybe not right at first (I mean, he had Starr arrested for holding a gun on Sonny) but a bit later on he tried to swill this whole "Michael can't lie at all! You can tell by his face!" meanwhile he lied for months about, you know, killing a woman with an axe, but they backed down from it a while later (you know, when they had to try to make Sonny a bit more sympathetic so mean old Michael stole the baby from him), but now I think his characterization has a better balance. 

Still, my favorite Michael was DG. He would have for friggin sure killed Sonny for killing AJ, heh. Well actually that Michael probably would have killed both AJ and Sonny. And definitely killed Franco by now. Sigh. We need him.

15 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I think they could have made a case for self-defense/defense of others, but yeah, DG's Michael looked like an angry psycho when he killed Claudia and I think the scary rage (and the natural distrust of the criminal class) is supposed to have been what prompted the cover-up

It didn't help that Michael was like, "whatever, I killed someone, that's the way I was raised." I know it was a bit repression, but it didn't help the murder come across as self-defense. And to be fair, I would have scoffed if Michael started weeping over the woman who put him in a coma.

[ulkis]

from 11/3/09 (thank you GH transcript site)

Michael: Look, Morgan, you've been awesome. Mom would have such a great life if it was just you and Jax and our baby sister. It's me. I'm the one who's the problem.

Morgan: Mom loves you.

Michael: Yeah. But just because you love someone, doesn't mean they're good for you, you know?

Yes, now maybe he can remember that about Sonny? No? Fine.

[ulkis]

Okay, Claudia is coming across actually like Nina did when she kidnapped Avery. Michael needs to swing his trust axe handle once more. Even the whole "Sonny doesn't want this baby" applied to both situations:

http://tvmegasite.net/transcripts/gh/older/2009/gh-trans-11-04-09.shtml

Carly: Please, let me hold my baby. Claudia, please.

Claudia: I never got to hold my baby. You like that? You like shiny, sparkly things, huh? Me, too.

Carly: She's my daughter. Give her to me, please. Give her to me.

Claudia: Sonny didn't even want a baby. But we don't need him or anybody else, do we?

Carly: She's not yours. You can't have her.

Claudia: I know. But I don't want you to catch cold now. We don't want you to catch cold.

Carly: You're not going to take my baby, Claudia.

Claudia: There we go. You have Michael back and Morgan. I lost everything.

Carly: No. No. You can't take her. No. Claudia! You can't take her! Claudia! No, no! Please! You can't take her! No!

[Woman vocalizing]

Carly: Michael, look at me. Look at me! You have to come over here and help me stand up. We have to get out of here.

[Choir vocalizing]

Carly: Oh, my gosh. She's beautiful. She's so beautiful. Look at my perfect little girl. [Crying] My beautiful, beautiful baby.

ew, this quote:

Sonny: All right. Get in your car. I'm going to talk to Jason. I'm going to take you home.

Michael: You're going to make this go away?

Sonny: I promise you. I need to talk to Jason. We're going to take care of everything. Get in your car.

[Car door opens and shuts]

Sonny: I don't need to see her.

 . . . 

Sonny: All right. You bury Claudia good and deep, as close to hell as you can. This has to end tonight.

I don't blame Sonny for not weeping over Claudia. But he couldn't even help out getting rid of the body? Jason should have said yeah yeah that'll be really easy ALL BY MYSELF.

[HeatLifer]

Jason would have buried himself if Sonny asked him to.

[ulkis]

Thankfully Jason didn't need oxygen to breathe anyhow!

[HeatLifer]

20 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Thankfully Jason didn't need oxygen to breathe anyhow!

There was a good 10 years when I don't even think he ate food.

[Lillybee]

One thing I do remember about that is that Sonny and Jason discussed taking Maxie out because she saw Michael at the gate to Sonny's house at the wrong time. Spin talked them out of it because Maxie would lie on the stand.

[ulkis]

Hee:

11/10/09

Olivia: I would hate to see you go to prison, Sonny. I'd feel terrible for your kids.

Sonny: So you would be worried just for my kids?

Olivia: For the kids and their various mothers and your friends and --

Sonny: That's a lot of sympathy for everybody except me.

Also, it cracks me up how detail free the conversations about the mob were/still are

Sonny: All right. What do you got?

Dominic: I'm hearin', uh, whispering from some former Zacchara people. Looks like your marriage to Claudia was the glue holding the alliance together.

Sonny: Mm-hmm.

Dominic: And then you outed her as being responsible for your son getting shot. Then suddenly she disappears. People are wondering.

Sonny: Tell them that, uh, Claudia went on vacation.

Dominic: Heh. Yeah. Wouldn't that be handy? Uh --

Sonny: Yeah.

Dominic: Well, the Zacchara faction assumes that you put personal life in front of business, and they believe that Claudia's dead, either by your own hands or on your orders. Either way, their rational conclusion is that the alliance is now broken and you and Anthony will soon be at war.

Alliance for WHAT? War about WHAT?? What are you doooooing.

Also, this is for you @HeatLifer

Dominic: Actually Jason Morgan, he's not here right now. Can I help you with something?

Sam: No. I will leave him a message on his answering machine.

Dominic: Oh, in the meantime, how 'bout I, uh, buy you an espresso? This place is famous for its cannoli. Two Cannoli and 2 espresso, please.

Sam: Look, sweetie, if you're hitting on me, don't bother.

Dominic: I'm much smoother when I'm hitting on someone. I mean, I could if you want me to.

Sam: No. Thanks.

Dominic: Wait. You're the -- you're the one who brought Carly into the E.R. after her ordeal, right?

Sam: Yes, I am, and I told the cops everything I know.

Dominic: Oh, I know, but this is me. You have any idea what happened to Claudia?

Sam: Why would you wanna know?

Dominic: Look, you know who I am. There's gonna be a lot of trouble here. I'm just trying to keep a lid on things. Claudia's disappeared. The natives are getting restless. Sonny has me and the rest of his men on high alert.

Sam: Okay. Well, I'll tell you exactly what I told the cops. I went to the cabin. Carly was giving birth. All I was worried about was getting her and the baby to the hospital.

Dominic: No sign of Claudia?

Sam: No. I mean, no sign of Claudia. For all I know, she was in the car, crawled out, died in the woods somewhere, or who knows? Maybe she had someone help her escape. Either way, I don't care. Anything else?

Dominic: Yeah. I still think you should try the cannoli.

Sam: [Sam scoffs] You’re cute, but not that cute.

For some reason it is weird to me that Sam used the word "sweetie" on someone not her sisters.

Edited August 14, 2016 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

Alliance for WHAT? War about WHAT?? What are you doooooing.

"Go upstairs." -Sonny

Sam: Look, sweetie, if you're hitting on me, don't bother.

"Look, unless you're gonna stare at me without blinking, this ain't gonna work for me." -Sam

[ulkis]

Nikolas: There you go. [Sighs] Heh. You know, I actually considered letting this day pass without acknowledgement. Ignoring the day you died because it brings me inconvenient pain is only par for the selfish course I'm on right now. You would not be very happy with me right now, Emily. And I'm caught -- I'm caught up in something that could blow everything that matters to me completely to hell. I mean, I love my brother. You know that. But I can't believe how much I'm betraying him right now, and I'm ashamed by it. But Elizabeth, she has me, Em. She has me good, and I don't know how to give her up or, God help me, if I even wanna –

Nikolas should have just cut through all the shit and been like, "hey Em. It's me. I suck."

ETA: Sometimes the transcriber accidentally left commercials that came after the ends of scenes and as a result some sentences look like this: 

Jax [to Sonny]: I think we are way overdue for a talk about boundaries and how to limit the threat you pose to my family. I love your sweater, is that cashmere?

-------

[Door opens]

[Horns honking in background]

Dominic: How are you holding up?

Johnny: Well, still trying to believe my sister is dead and I'm never gonna see her again.

Dominic: I don't have a sibling, but I mean, I know it's gotta be tough on you.

And now he has 50! awwwww.

Edited August 14, 2016 by ulkis

[Asp Burger]

Quote

Still, my favorite Michael was DG.

He was entertaining, and for sure more of a plausible older version of Dylan Cash's Red Menace. It was a bit of a cheat that we didn't get to see Garrett play the prison material with Carter and the aftermath. The character just became Chad Duell's Bambi version in the blink of an eye.  

I do like Duell, though, and he proved in the "rebellion" period (which I wasn't watching, but I've seen YouTube clips) that he can play Michael with more of an edge. It isn't his fault that they have nothing for him anymore to do except be Sabrina's purring neutered cat.  

Jax [to Sonny]: I think we are way overdue for a talk about boundaries and how to limit the threat you pose to my family. I love your sweater, is that cashmere?

That would have so improved the scene! 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Asp Burger

[LeftPhalange]

Even crappy dialog was so much better before Ron & Co. took over.

[ulkis]

1 minute ago, LeftPhalange said:

Even crappy dialog was so much better before Ron & Co. took over.

For most part, I never thought the dialogue was the problem, before Ron it was always pretty decent, although of course there's always gonna be huge clunkers when you're forced to try to justify dumb plot points and you have 250 episodes a year or however many it is.

[HeatLifer]

Jax [to Sonny]: I think we are way overdue for a talk about boundaries and how to limit the threat you pose to my family. I love your sweater, is that cashmere?

It might just be one of those days, but this made me laugh for longer than it should have. 

[KerleyQ]

On 8/10/2016 at 8:28 PM, TeeVee329 said:

Not really.  While I historically have loved Lucy and Kevin and they'd be my OTP if the lights ever went out in Port Charles, I'm enjoying the budding romance with Kevin and Laura.  It's sweet and mature and it's a change of pace partner-wise for both of them, particularly Laura.  As long as they don't crap on Kevin's long history with Lucy (i.e. no "I've never loved any woman before you, Laura!" stuff), I'm good to go.  And luckily, I also enjoy Lucy with Scotty.

As someone who always preferred Lucy/Scott, what's happening with Laura, Kevin, Lucy, and Scott really works for me.  I know Laura and Kevin haven't had a ton of build up, but they're a nice mature couple who has been spending time together, are attracted to each other, and have now survived all the Cassadine Island stuff together.  It works for me as a later in life love story.  And I've always felt like Scott and Lucy were each other's soulmates, in that they get each other, and, no matter how many times they try to stay away from each other, their kind of unconventional love for each other has always been there. I thought LH and JL had chemistry, but Lucy doesn't need to hide any part of who she is with Scott, and she often had to, or at least felt like she had to, with Kevin.  

[ulkis]

JJ and JMB's first scene together. I like how they "slipped" in the "big brother" part, to make sure we knew now, he's still older than her:

Lucky: Hey. What are you doing here?

[Lulu sighs]

Lulu: I'm just procrastinating. I'm supposed to be working on this stupid art exhibit.

Lucky: Oh. You want to tell your big brother about it?

Lulu: If a train was going to run over your friend, isn't it your responsibility, as a friend, to tell them to get out of the way? If your other friend driving the train would get upset, it doesn't matter, especially if the train is about to run out of tracks?

Lucky: Do I need to try to decipher that?

Oh, the pain in hindsight:

Maxie: Disaster is looming. Franco is here. 

this is fun. Let's all come back and read this after the writers make whatever is going on with Joss Jax's fault:

Sonny: You love to hold yourself up as better than me. But for months, you knew that Claudia put Michael, a young boy, in that coma. You knew she was dangerous. You said nothing. You did nothing.

Jax: Come on, Sonny, you married her. Don't blame me for bringing her into Michael's life.

Sonny: None of that would have happened if I had known the truth.

Jax: You didn't want to know the truth. It was a smart business move.

Sonny: I needed 100% proof and you had it.

Jax: Sonny, I was trying to protect Carly.

Sonny: No, you were trying to protect your psycho brother.

Jax: I wasn't protecting my brother. I was gonna tell Carly everything after the baby was born.

Sonny: But you didn't! You didn't say anything. Which means you chose your psycho brother over Michael.

Jax: That's not true.

Sonny: You put my kids --

Jax: It's time for you to leave.

Sonny: My kids in danger. I -- you know, it's not my business, but I don't know how she could ever forgive you.

Jax: Oh, listen to you trying to shift the blame, huh? You're trying to avoid taking responsibility for your disaster of a life. And you're the one to blame for this. You're the one who backed Claudia into a corner at the party when you knew how dangerous she was. She would never have kidnapped Carly if it wasn't for your ridiculous speech.

Sonny: Claudia would have never been in the picture if I had just known the truth!

Jax: Yeah. Well, she's out of the picture now, isn't she? Because Michael saved his mother. And instead of helping Michael get through this the right way, you're dragging him into a cover-up that's going to destroy his life, Sonny.

Sonny: I'm just trying to protect Michael.

Jax: You're trying to feed your own ego, that's what you're trying to do. [Sighs] You're making Michael completely dependent on you, Sonny, by asking him to keep -- keep this secret. And again it's all about you. It's always about you. An innocent person who loves you is gonna take the fall.

And he didn't have a comeback!! The scene ends there! MADNESS.

Spinelli: I hope Maximista is not displeased by the Jackal's tardiness. See, as a full partner in McCall and Jackal, l's it was my duty to follow through on all security, make sure everything was all in order.

Lulu: I wouldn't worry. I'm sure Maxie didn't even notice that you weren't here.

Dominic: Ouch.

Dante looking like he wanted to punch the chili should have happened every time he caught his parents together. Or you know, around the chest-shooter in general.

http://public.fotki.com/lisaghscreencaps/novemeber-2009-scre/monday-november-30-2009/catv-8-20091130-0237-1.html

Edited August 15, 2016 by ulkis

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

I don't blame Sonny for not weeping over Claudia. But he couldn't even help out getting rid of the body? Jason should have said yeah yeah that'll be really easy ALL BY MYSELF.

Sonny never did anything he could get someone else to do.

58 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Jax [to Sonny]: I think we are way overdue for a talk about boundaries and how to limit the threat you pose to my family. I love your sweater, is that cashmere?

I can't stop laughing at this. If only Sonny could reply, "Yeah, two-ply Mongolian. I got a guy in Italy who gets it for me without the export taxes."

56 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

t was a bit of a cheat that we didn't get to see Garrett play the prison material with Carter and the aftermath. The character just became Chad Duell's Bambi version in the blink of an eye.  

I think the rape story was why they recast. 

I don't mind Laura/Kevin, but the dialogue sometimes makes it seem as if they have no idea of each other's past, even the broadest outline. 

[tvgoddess]

Quote

Sam: [Sam scoffs] You’re cute, but not that cute.

I still remember that line and the way KeMo delivered it. Heh.

Reading that Carly/Claudia scene definitely feels like it could have been the exact same Ava/Nina scene. Considering that, you'd think Carly would have a tiny bit of sympathy somewhere for Ava since she essentially went through the same thing, but not even nearly as bad as Ava.

[ulkis]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I can't stop laughing at this. If only Sonny could reply, "Yeah, two-ply Mongolian. I got a guy in Italy who gets it for me without the export taxes."

His actual reply is, "You know, you used to be discreet, Jax. I don't know what happened, but..." which works nicely if you're writing a Jax/Sonny fanfic!

1 hour ago, HeatLifer said:

"Go upstairs." -Sonny

Sonny: Somebody's gotta handle Tony Bianco.

Dominic: Why Johnny?

Sonny: Why are you questioning me? Stop doing that!

(Me: whyyyyyyyyyyyy do you have to handle Tony Bianco?!?! What is he doing?!?!)

[Tiger]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

Also, it cracks me up how detail free the conversations about the mob were/still are

Remember when in circa '02-04 Sonny, Jason, and first Luis and then Lorenzo were constantly talking about " shipping lanes"?

And then when SWNBN got all that money for saving that old bag's dog during the hotel fire, she bought a bunch of the docks and wad constantly talking about the "lanes" too.  

At least Ron had the guts to put in dialogue that Sonny was running guns and then that Dark Lewq was running cocaine.  Guza would never specify what even the 'bad' mobsters wete doing.

[Asp Burger]

Quote

And then when SWNBN got all that money for saving that old bag's dog during the hotel fire, she bought a bunch of the docks and wad constantly talking about the "lanes" too.

There should have been more scrutiny of the connection between SWSNBN's "lanes" and My Foundation®.  I'm sure she would have insisted that My Foundation® was completely above board, but how do we know? Polls showed that only 35% of GH viewers considered SWSNBN "honest and trustworthy."  

Edited August 14, 2016 by Asp Burger

[Tiger]

11 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

There should have been more scrutiny of the connection between SWSNBN's "lanes" and My Foundation®.  I'm sure she would have insisted that My Foundation® was completely above board, but how do we know? Polls showed that only 35% of GH viewers considered SWSNBN "honest and trustworthy."  

Considering she shot, and killed, a cop in the back, and then got another man killed becsuse she framed him, 35% is quite generous.

Seriously, she murdered Brian and got Zander killed, and not only never paid for her crimes but was rewarded because a dog literally followed her out of the building.  She didnt do a damn thing to save and/or rescue that pooch.

[ulkis]

That Time Lucky Said What He Really Thought of Carly was pretty swell:

Lulu: Well, they're down to the last 3 cars, so there are others that are on the list.

Lucky: No. It's Carly. It's her. I mean, how many other people do you know...who are capable of hitting a child and just... driving away?

Luke: No, no, she wouldn't do that if she were aware that she'd hit--

Lucky: No, it's an accident, Dad. Of course it's an accident. I mean, Carly's entire existence is a series of accidents. That way she's not responsible for anything she ever does.

Luke: Now, don't jump to conclusions. Stick with what you know.

Lucky: What, like you don't know what she's like? Seriously. Carly is so focused on herself and what she wants at any given moment, she doesn't care who gets in her way.

Lulu: Lucky, she was driving to the hospital because Josslyn was in pediatric ICU.

Lucky: That makes even more sense. She was probably driving erratically, completely distracted, only thinking about herself and her daughter. Are you seriously making excuses for her right now?

Luke: Now wait a minute. She's she's not making excuses. She's just--

Lucky: Somebody just drove away and left Jake in the street. That woman doesn't know how to be anything but completely selfish to the core of her soul. And now my son is the latest to pay.

Lulu: Lucky, this was an accident, okay? We don't even know if Carly was the driver.

Luke: He's not angry with Carly. He's angry with God.

Lucky: I'm not angry at God. God didn't hit my child with a car. Carly did. So, yeah, I'm angry, at her. I'm angry that Jake is dead and that Carly's just gonna rise above it and keep on going like she always does. She drives like she lives, completely oblivious to anyone who gets in her way.

Luke: She's capable of a lot, it's true. Blackmail, larceny, maybe even murder under the right circumstances. But if she knew she had hit Jake, she would have stopped.

Lucky: You would have, Dad. I would have. Not Carly. Not if it meant she had to stop for one second and think about someone else for once in her life.

oh, Guza logic:

Dominic: Look, port Charles will be a safe place. A major syndicate'll be completely shut down, and Sonny's kids can grow up leading a normal life.

Lulu: Yeah, you wanna tell 'em that? 'Cause I don't. 

Yes, what awful news to deliver. "Hey kids! Port Charles is going to be a safe place now and you can have a normal life! I'm sorry! Let me give you a hug!"

I'm trying to restrain myself from videos but the way Dante stumbles on to the door here is adorable.

https://youtu.be/MsSZMDakqHc?list=PL07F6924D7CFE8063

Luke and Lucky, with Luke trying to warn Lucky away from Liz without actually spilling about the affair:

Lucky: You wanna know why I don't trust you, Dad? It's 'cause you're like the wind. I never know where you're gonna be. You might be there 9 times out of 10, but I don't know if I'm gonna get that one time where you're just gone. We could even be in the same room sometimes, and you're not there. I'm sittin' here, talkin' to you right now. You're not even hearin'.

[Luke scoffs]

Luke: Oh, I'm here, cowboy, but you just can't see me 'cause you're wearin' blinders. Yes, I think the worst about people. I do. And you think the best of everyone, except me. You live your life to prove me wrong. You live your life to make sure that you're not gonna be me, and it's blinding you to the truth.

Lucky: If I'm blind to the truth, enlighten me. Please. If I'm in the dark, turn the light on, for God's sake, and stop bitchin' about how naive I am. I'm not trying to prove you wrong, Dad. You know what? Yeah. Some of the things I've done in the past, maybe they were a way to get back at you. That was a long time ago. I'm not 15 years old. I'm not living my life to give you the finger.

Luke: No, you're not 15. You're a grown man. You're my firstborn, and I love you more than life itself. And that's why it's difficult, because I see you doin' things just to make sure that you're not me. I see you wearin' a cop's badge on your belt and goin' for a third round with Elizabeth and her kids just to make sure everybody knows you're not me. You would rather stick your head in the sand than be like me and chase the wind.

Lucky: How narcissistic are you? Seriously? You think everything in my life comes back to you? What Elizabeth and I have has nothing to do with you, Dad. The love I have for her is mine. As for bein' a cop, you know, maybe I did choose that as a way to stick it to you. I don't know. But I stay with it because I wanna believe in something, just like I believe that puttin' down roots isn't the beginning of the end. It has nothing to do with proving you wrong. I'm just bein' me, just living my life. And if I get hurt, I'll deal with it, and it won't be your fault. This is not your responsibility. Are you hearing me, Dad?

Luke: I hear you.

I love all that, especially Lucky's "I don't live my life to give you the finger", which was hilarious. And I think it's an example of how they actually did not ignore the events that happened when GV was Lucky. And combined the teen Lucky and GV Lucky and were finally actually writing for the character again. And I like how Lucky isn't completely denying everything Luke is saying, because so many times on soaps you see the bad guy tell the good guy truths and the good guy is completely denying everything the bad guy is saying and we're supposed to buy that all the b.s. the bad guy is saying is true. I like how Luke gives Lucky some not-so-great facts about himself and Lucky's just like, "yeah? So? That doesn't negate the rest of my life or the choices I make."

And I'm annoyed because the way Lucky left reinforced Luke's (and TG's, quite frankly) POV. I feel better by thinking I'm pretty sure JJ's view of Lucky is not the same as TG thinks for Luke. I wish they would let him have off-screen custody with the kids, but then I guess they couldn't use them to as an excuse for Franco to come and bond with Liz's kids, among many things. blah. 

Sonny: Lucky's heading the investigation into Claudia’s disappearance, and he's leaning on Michael.

Luke: Well, I'm sure that my son will follow all the rules to the letter, and do it very professionally.

Sonny: You know what Michael’s gone through, and he's still recovering from a gunshot wound and a coma.

Luke: Sonny, look, I can't tell Detective Spencer how to do his job. And if I did, believe me, he would not listen.

Sonny: If you could just suggest to him that if he has any questions, he could come to me.

Luke: Well, here's a radical idea -- why don't you cut out the middle man and tell him yourself?

Sonny: I did that, and he's convinced that Michael’s hiding something, and he's not going to let it go.

Luke: Well, then, that's your answer.

Sonny: I just don't want him pressuring my kid.

Luke: That's not my problem. But I tell you one thing, if anything happens to my kid or anybody he cares about, I will make it your problem.

Sonny: I swear that I would never lift a finger against Lucky, but he's right smack in the middle of this investigation.

Luke: Sonny, he's a cop. He gets an assignment. He's got a job to do.

Sonny: I was just thinking maybe you could go to him, father to son, tell him to ease off, tell him, you know, that he's a father himself.

Luke: What's the deal here? Are you afraid that Michael is going to say something incriminating?

Sonny: Maybe I am. And there's a reason why I need Lucky to ease off. Can you help me out there?

Luke: You know what, I'd like to. But my hands are tied.

Sonny: Can you just --

Luke: Sonny, just be grateful you got a relationship with your son; that you can talk to him, that he respects you. Because when that bond is broken, man, it's gone. [Chuckles] It's gone.

I like this conversation a lot too because I feel like this was the first time, or at least one of the only times, Luke wasn't overly derisive about Lucky's choices in front of others (definite "you can tell JJ is playing him now" moment, and in front of Sonny, of all people.) Yeah, there's the slight touch of sarcasm when he says "Detective Spencer" and such but it's mostly him basically telling Sonny, "grow up and stop complaining and deal with it." And I like how Luke automatically assumes Sonny might be threatening Lucky. No, "Sonny would never stoop that far!" from Luke. And this was way before Sonny even remotely threatened FakeSonLovett.

This is interesting in light of what happened later:

Sonny: You know, sometimes I wish -- Michael would turn against me.

Luke: No, you don’t. It'll break your heart.

Sonny: Yeah, it would break my heart, but at least he wouldn't have to live the life that I lead.

Luke: You're lying to yourself, Sonny. You see yourself in Michael, and you're proud of what you see.

Sonny: What I'm proud of is that he's strong. But I wish he would use that strength to go a different way, even if it meant defying me.

Luke: Careful what you wish for, my friend. Be very careful.

Luke's line is why I don't think Michael turning against him over AJ's murder was that horrific of a punishment for Sonny, as opposed to Carly. There was a part of him that was proud that Michael was going all scorched earth. And I do believe that Sonny would be/was proud of Michael for defying him, cause he sees that as his influence on Michael. I don't really think that Sonny feels that passionately about his kids choosing a different path though, except for Morgan and the girls, the girls because they're girls and Morgan cause he's Fredo. With Dante and Michael I think he would pay some lip service protests but ultimately be fine with it.

Edited August 15, 2016 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

That woman doesn't know how to be anything but completely selfish to the core of her soul.

I'm not seeing any lies.

[ulkis]

5 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I'm not seeing any lies.

That was fun, but my favorite was "her entire life is a series of accidents!"

[HeatLifer]

4 minutes ago, ulkis said:

That was fun, but my favorite was "her entire life is a series of accidents!"

And then "help me get out of this accident!" Her character got SO exhausting over the years. 

[Chairperson Meow]

I went on the transcript site to see when Michael learned Sonny killed AJ.  Here's a quote of exactly what Sonny said that Michael saw in the video:

Sonny:  You know how it went down. You know how I let her blindside me, and what happened between me and her was the worst thing that could've happened, you know? It haunts me to this day.  I've got to live with the guilt.  I'm the one that put AJ in the grave.   I'm the one who took Michael's father away when I shot the bastard.

Then the killer,for me,Michael asks Carly what AJ's real last words were:

Micheal: I want to know exactly what he said.  Did he mention me...at all?  Did he say he loves me?

Carly:  No

Micheal:  so all this time, I've been telling myself at least he was thinking of me.  Maybe that gave him some comfort, but it's all a lie

Why are the writers treating us like we're stupid?   I want to see BM play an emotional reaction to AJ's murder.  It would be a great fucking week of shows.  

[Oracle42]

The writing in those Luke/Lucky scenes was so damn good. The show is so embarrassing now. 

 

33 minutes ago, ulkis said:

FakeSonLovett

I love you.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

2 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

The writing in those Luke/Lucky scenes was so damn good. The show is so embarrassing now. 

It was but I'm skimming a lot of crap. My eyes feel like burning when I spot the name "Rebecca".

[HeatLifer]

I want to know exactly what he said.  Did he mention me...at all?  Did he say he loves me?

*crying* He always did, Michael.

[Chairperson Meow]

Transcript from Michael confronting Sonny:

Micheal: No, let me ask you this.  If AJ shot you, would you expect me to forgive him? What would you want me to do?

Sonny: Michael,what do you want me to say?

Micheal: You swore to me!  You promised me you wouldn't hurt him, and I believed because I'm - I'm your son and you love me, I could believe you.

Sonny: I do love you son

Micheal: No, no you don't love me.  If you loved me like a father loves a son, there's no way you'd be able to pull the trigger.

Sonny:  Listen son-

Micheal:  Im not your son and your not my father!  AJ was my father!

And then my favorite Michael quote of that day:

Micheal:  That wasn't for my sake!  I was a pawn!  You hated AJ, and you used me his own son against him!  You didn't care what you did to me!  You cost me my whole life with my real father!  Put the gun down.  What?  Are you gonna shoot me like you shot Dante?

Sonny:  I put the gun down now, Michael.  Now what?

Micheal:  Now you're defenseless just like AJ was when you killed him.  

We're not stupid, Frank.  Or Maurice.  Or Writers.  

[dubbel zout]

40 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Somebody just drove away and left Jake in the street.

HIS GRANDFATHER. Ugh.

42 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Luke: She's capable of a lot, it's true. Blackmail, larceny, maybe even murder under the right circumstances. But if she knew she had hit Jake, she would have stopped.

Lucky: You would have, Dad.

Um...

48 minutes ago, ulkis said:

With Dante and Michael I think he would pay some lip service protests but ultimately be fine with [them defying him].

As long as it didn't truly affect him. If Dante arrested him and meant it, or Michael did something that threatened Sonny's business, that would be a different story. Sonny is always about Sonny, now and forever.

[ulkis]

13 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Um...

Heh. But I do think Luke would have stopped if he felt something. Carly too though.

[UYI]

The infamous night ten years ago today. I knew the tenth anniversary was sometime this month; what a coincidence that I looked it up today!

 

[HeatLifer]

10 years ago? People still talk about it like it happened an hour ago. 

[dubbel zout]

19 minutes ago, ulkis said:

But I do think Luke would have stopped if he felt something. Carly too though.

They did feel something—everyone had a reaction but had a reason not to stop and take a closer look. As much as I hated how they resolved who hit Jake, I thought they did a decent job of showing who might have done it and why they didn't stop.

[ulkis]

Wait, so did they all roll right over not-Jake's body? What the hell, I thought it was just Luke.

I meant that if they thought they felt something kid-sized.

[Chairperson Meow]

Dante catching Michael with Sonny:

Dante:  Okay well, then listen. Care about AJ.  He loved you.  He lived his whole life with you in mind.  Dont destroy all that.  Don't- don't corrupt everything you've worked so hard to build in his name.  Being a part of his world-  being like him (points to Sonny) -  that would've been AJ's nightmare.  Don't make that come true.  You told me what it's like living in his war with AJ.  Okay?  Killing him would finish it, but he would win.  He would win and you would be a Corinthos through and through.  Save yourself right now and drop the gun.  

And that is why people deserve to be angry at Sonny.   

[ulkis]

This is probably my-second-to-last post, then I'll stop taking this thread hostage :) Darn rabbit hole.

Jason: Well, people say that I'm cold and I have no regard for human life, but that's not true. Franco... doesn't care about anything except his own amusement. Once he's not having fun, anybody's expendable. I've never seen a guy like this. So if you don't want to take this ride, I'm not gonna hold it against you.

Does Jason want to give us any reason why it's not true. He just says it's not true and then skips straight to Franco! Come on man, give us something! A puppy? A nice warm bath? Something!!

Another good Lucky/Luke conversation (for those who don't know, this stuff has all been fall/winter 2009 so far, except for "Carly is selfish to her core, that was 2011.)

Luke: Hey. Cowboy.

Lucky: Hey, Dad. Why are you, uh, sitting here alone?

Luke: Heh. I'm not alone. You're here. Ethan was here. Tracy was here. The place has been Grand Central Station all night.

Lucky: Can you, uh, tell me what's been going on with you lately?

Luke: [Sighs] I just brewed some coffee. Have you got time for a cup?

Lucky: Sure. Yeah.

Luke: Okay.

Lucky: Mom called this morning.

Luke: Oh?

Lucky: Yeah. She, uh, she wants me and Elizabeth to bring the kids to Paris next year for Christmas.

Luke: Well, that would be nice. Paris is so beautiful at Christmastime. Do you remember... that year that we were stranded there through the holidays? You were just a kid--I don't know, 8, 9 years old maybe. And we had that cheap walk-up apartment in Bigale behind Moulin Rouge. In the front, you could see the gutter from the back. You could see Sacre-Coeur.

Lucky: Yeah. Were you doing some sort of art scam with a cabdriver or something? Was that then?

Luke: Yeah.

Lucky: What was that guy's name?

Luke: Um... Jean Pierre Lebon.

Lucky: Yeah.

Luke: From Marseille--

Lucky: Yeah, I remember him.

Luke: He was a good guy-- really good guy.

Lucky: Did he come to Christmas dressed as Santa Claus? Was that the same guy? With a bunch of presents and everything?

Luke: That was Jean Pierre.

Lucky: That was him?

Luke: I talked him into doing Santa Claus for us one year. Yeah.

[Lucky chuckling]

Luke: Yeah, that was sweet. Your mother had found that scrawny old tree and decorated it beautifully and put her angel on the top. That was sweet.

Lucky: Man, I haven't thought about that in a long time.

Luke: Heh. Me, either.

Lucky: [Sniffs] I loved my childhood, Dad.

Luke: Did you?

Lucky: Yeah. You and Mom, you gave me an incredible life... the kind of life most people only dream about.

Luke: Well, that was a long time ago.

Lucky: Yeah, I miss those times. But there's no going back, is there? You know, people make choices. Some of it's pretty ugly. It's hard not to... carry the damage with you. You know? But that doesn't mean that the good didn't happen... because it did. That doesn't mean that the love wasn't real. Because it was.

You know what I've been noticing lately? It's all these little miracles... like Ethan and I managing to be in the same room together... me staying sober, Elizabeth and I stumbling onto the perfect property for our new house. They're everywhere, Dad. I've been seeing them-- been seeing them lately. They're happening all the time. And all we have to do is just not look away. That's what I'm asking for tonight... not some huge miracle. Just a small one. Just my dad... With me on Christmas Eve. That would really make me happy.

Luke talking about Laura without pity or condescension or talking about how he wrecked her, Lucky talking about how the love was real. It was felt so good to hear this stuff after years of Luke's b.s.

Hee, this may have been the first Dante/Maxie one-on-one conversation:

Maxie: Well, you clean up nice.

Dominic: Thank you.

Maxie: Ahem. So, Dominic, what exactly are your plans for Lulu tonight?

Maxie: All right. Well, if you're not going to tell me where you're going, will you at least tell me when Lulu's going to be back?

Dominic: What are you, her mother?

Lulu: Will there be shooting involved?

Dominic: I can assure you, I don't anticipate any gunfire. As far as when we'll be home, I guess that's Lulu's call.

Maxie: Hope you don't anticipate getting any tonight, either.

Dominic: Excuse me?

Maxie: Lulu's invested. She's not like me. She's not going to sabotage this whole thing by having sex with you.

Dominic: Yeah. Just don't know if I want to have this conversation with you . . . . 

That episode was also Scrubs' first anniversary. 

Patrick: Okay. Favorite baby food front and center.

Robin: Oh, thank you.

Patrick: Check. Got it.

Robin: Did you set the thermostat? It's tricky. Judy gets nervous about that.

Patrick: Yes. Check.

Robin: Um, trash.

Patrick: Check. We're good. We're covered. Let's go.

Robin: Okay. Oh, the prep is so exhausting. I'm tired now.

Patrick: Oh, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Robin, hey. Stand up.

[Robin chuckles]

Patrick: This is our one-year anniversary. We need to celebrate our glorious coupledom.

[Robin laughs]

Robin: Wow. I can't believe you just said that.

Hee at "the prep is so exhausting. I'm tired now."

Here's Lucky, endearing drunk drivers to Carly's heart:

Lucky: Look, Carly, I know you know this, but... drunk driving's a pretty serious offense. I mean, BJ died because of a drunk driver. Jason's a mob enforcer because of a drunk driver.

Here's some sad Dexter wanna be dialogue from Franco. Franco 2.0 is pretty much a mix of both Guza and Ron's worst traits as writers - Guza's need to imitate some dark primetime show and Ron's campiness. And two bad flavors taste even worst together.

Franco: I always knew I was different. I felt nothing. People would laugh or cry. I never understood why. I taught myself to mimic them. I passed for ordinary. I was 18 when I went to prison for a crime I didn't commit. I learned a lot. All those cons going on about all the people they'd killed. Mostly lies, but it made me curious. So when I got out, I decided to kill someone, just to see what it was like. I shot a man in Tribeca. Watched him die. I didn't feel a damn thing. And so I turned it into art. And I've never stopped.

--------------

Lulu: Okay. This seems very logical and clinical, but I'm getting hit by a lot of bad memories of you getting pregnant by Jason and lying about it. And the reason I kept that a secret for so long was because I thought knowing would send Lucky spiraling back into drugs, and I also believed that you and Jason were victims of bad timing. But now here we are again, in a very similar situation with Nikolas. You're not pregnant, are you?

Elizabeth: No, God, of course not.

ahahaha yes. Of course not! Sigh.

Lulu: You know, once you get to Paris, I think you should put Spencer in a regular school and let him be around other kids.

Nikolas: Yeah, I'll consider that.

Well, I guess Nikolas didn't consider that after all. grumble.

When Sonny asked Dante to take over the business:

Dominic: Well, what about Jason?

Sonny: I love Jason. He's-- my best friend. He's like a brother to me. But...he doesn't want to run the business. He's already made it clear that if I ever walk away, he wants to walk away with me. If we're both still standing.

So beautiful. Sniff. Also, this proves that Jason never killed for money. It was for love.

Sonny: It's not like I'm retiring anytime soon.

sigh. NO KIDDING, Sonny.

11 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Was Michael's murder of Claudia self-defense? I could see a case for justifiable homicide, but I don't see how self-defense would work.

quoting this again, that it was self-defense but he didn't hesitate to use it to threaten or prove to Sonny why he was worthy:

Michael: Look, people disappear all the time, Dominic. Look what happened to my stepmother. Don't think I can't--

Sonny: What's going on?!

Michael: Dominic thinks he can come in here and take my place, but he's not gonna take what's mine. I'm gonna get rid of you if it's the last thing I ever do.

Also I think they just copy and pasted half this shit when they SORASed Morgan for Michael/Morgan. It was much better written (and acted, as much as I liked BC back then) the first time.

The later after Dante leaves between Michael and Sonny:

Sonny: There's no competition between you and Dominic. You're my son, my first-born.

Michael: I'm AJ's first-born. Mom dumped me on you.

Sonny: That's not what happened, and you know it. You're my son in every way it counts.

Michael: Then why are you giving Dominic everything I ever wanted?

Sonny: The plan was never for you to take over, Michael. I don't want you, Kristina, or Morgan anywhere near my business.

Michael: Well, you don't even know Dominic.

Sonny: Dominic hasn't even agreed to takeover. And even if he does, it's not gonna be for years from now, right?

Michael: Maybe. Unless somebody takes you out first.

Sonny: I don't see that happening, Michael. Nothing Dominic does should affect you.

Michael: Well, you spend a lot more time with Dominic, and you listen to every word he says.

Sonny: Because it's business. What do you--I mean, it has nothing to do with you anyway.

Michael: In other words, he's everything I'm not.

Sonny: That's not what I said. It's apples and oranges. Dominic works for me. You're a high school student. But the most important thing is you're never gonna be part of my organization. You're gonna have a much better life than Dominic can even think of having. You're gonna go to college and you're gonna be anything that you want to be.

Michael: Except next in line.

Sonny: My life has cost you too much already.

Michael: I mean, why won't you just admit that you don't want your brain-damaged son around? I'm an embarrassment to you.

Sonny: I don't want you to live in the world that I live in.

Michael: I already am, Dad. I've been in this world, and look what it cost me. I've already earned everything that you're giving Dominic.

Sonny: There's no use in even arguing this because you're never gonna work for me. And the sooner y accept that, the happier you're gonna be. I love you. And I want you to have a great life.

Michael: I know you love me, Dad. You don't give me any respect. Not like you give Dominic.

It would be interesting if Michael told Morgan about all this stuff, but they won't, alas. Since Morgan is over his jealousy and everyone loves each other, blah blah.

Edited August 15, 2016 by ulkis