GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Oracle42]

On 9/18/2016 at 8:34 AM, jsbt said:

It would've taken longer than a year to do A.J. and Carly, IMO. I would've milked that quad with Liz and someone else for Carly for years, just like they did Alan, Monica and Lesley. It's the same model. They'd swap partners back and forth but while they might fuck and fight and later have this tortured romance, Carly and A.J. wouldn't really get legit together - or have any full understanding of each other despite their sexual heat and a growing bond - for a long time. It would take forever for Carly to comprehend what she did to A.J., as you say. That's a year right there!

That sounds like a story on an actual soap opera! Unfortunately it doesn't include Franco, soooooo.....no dice.

[stlbf]

Heee! I always liked those twins. And seeing them flabbergast SB makes me love them even more.

[Tiger]

Ive been thinking about who could have been a legitimate fourth in the long-term with Liz, AJ, and Carly, and the best I can come up is Dr. Matt but played by Jason Thompson after Patrick was written out with a HEA with Robin.

I believe it waz Mar 2014 when the show went totally off the rails and never rexocered with Robin given that awful exit and then weeks later AJ murdered by Sonny.  Instead they could have exited Scrubs happily, brought Matt back now played by JT and done a potentially epic quad.

Jasus could have stayed frozen fish food too.

[jsbt]

I probably would've put her with Shawn or someone. Or a new Stephen Lars or Tom Hardy, I dunno. Sean Blakemore and LW had chemistry, ending that was a mistake.

[HeatLifer]

8 hours ago, Tiger said:

I believe it waz Mar 2014 when the show went totally off the rails

It happened way before that for me, lol. Looking back, I wish Robin had been written off normally in 2012. Divorced Patrick bc of the Lisa situation and left town with Emma, who could later visit Patrick whenever.  This way, she was free from Forever Saving Jason, free from being a YEARS-long prisoner, and free from Forever Loving A Proposal-Obsessed Man Who Didn't Deserve Her. And she could visit without it effecting story.

'Cause when I really think about it, JT leaving was what saved Robin/Scrubs in the end, and even that cut it damn close with the amount of destruction Frank, Ron, AND Jelly already inflicted on them and contined to inflict until a mere FEW weeks before their last airdate. There's no doubt in my mind that if JT stayed, Robin would still be a prisoner no one tried to contact while Patrick/Jason fought over Sam.

[HeatLifer]

Robin was totes throwing shade here. No one can convince me otherwise. 

Andre: I got a chance to meet your husband, Patrick, when I first started at GH. He made me feel right at home.

Robin: Yeah, that's my husband.

[KerleyQ]

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I went with History.  I honestly can't remember, on this most recent return, for the kidney drama, did Jax even have a scene with Morgan?  The man was, essentially, his father for years, and they were very close (side note: kid Morgan had much better taste in people than BryDog Morgan). You'd think someone would remember to mine that history when Jax returns to town to deal with the mystery revolving around Morgan's little sister's kidney transplant.   Maybe a scene where Jax asks him how his treatment is going, how he's feeling?  Maybe in those recent conversations between Morgan and Kiki (and her hilarious disbelief that Morgan was going to college), Morgan could have mentioned that spending some time with Jax during his visit to PC reminded him of how, when he was younger, he wanted to get an education so he could be a successful businessman like Jax?  The whole point of soaps is the decades of history between characters.  How do you not use that in little ways like that?  Obviously the Jax/Morgan conversation requires Ingo to be there, but Morgan talking to Kiki about Jax's influence on his childhood doesn't require Ingo's presence at all or take away from the limited time they had to film with Ingo that they wanted to devote to the kidney scenes.  And Morgan talking about how Jax raised him and what an influence he had on him during those years could help make Morgan (who is mostly an unrelenting douchetool) a little more human in his desire to start back up with college instead of the butt of a bunch of "Morgan's an illiterate dumbass" jokes.  (Not that I don't appreciate those jokes, but I can't help wondering if they were written after BryDog decided to leave.) 

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, KerleyQ said:

the limited time they had to film with Ingo that they wanted to devote to the kidney scenes

Ugh, which ended up being pretty pointless anyway, given nothing has happened. I don't want Jax thrown under the bus for this, but I wish they'd finish the kidney story.

3 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

 (Not that I don't appreciate those jokes, but I can't help wondering if they were written after BryDog decided to leave.) 

Nah; people have been joking about Morgan being a dope for a few years. I think it really started with the bipolar story, when they were trying to differentiate between Morgan in a manic phase, in a depressive state, on his meds, off his meds, etc., and mostly failing. And unfortunately for him, Bryan Craig doesn't project much native intelligence.

[ulkis]

8 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

(Not that I don't appreciate those jokes, but I can't help wondering if they were written after BryDog decided to leave.) 

Yesterday's "travesty! a whole three syllables" joke was written by Scott Sickles, who pretty much takes petty potshots (which admittedly sometimes I find funny, sometimes I don't) at most of the characters, so I don't think it had anything to do with Bryan leaving. I don't know who wrote the Kiki is skeptical Morgan wants to go to college day though.

And no, Jax didn't share one scene with Morgan. 

[KerleyQ]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

And no, Jax didn't share one scene with Morgan. 

This show, I swear...  What got me to wondering that was the whole idea of people showing up to be there for Michael after Sabrina's death thing.  I remembered Jax sneaking back into town to see him after Abby died.  That, of course, had me thinking "if they'd worked out the timing better, or pre-taped, they could have had him be there for Michael again, to deal with losing her and Teddy."  And it dawned on me that I don't remember him having scenes with the boys on this return.  Especially with all Morgan's had going on recently, you'd think he'd make a point to spend a little time with him, so he can see for himself how he's doing.  He was planning on adopting that child, and he had a big hand in raising him.  Jax may no longer be with Carly, but he built strong relationships with her sons.  He was not the kind of character who would let those relationships fall to the wayside.  When he came back for Michael he was risking his safety, but he came back because he loves those boys.  

I swear, if they ever get back around to revealing whatever part Jax played in the kidney thing, if we get scenes of Morgan trashing him like all he's ever been to him is one of his father's enemies, I'm going to lose it.  

[Oracle42]

After that repulsive treacly toast Sam gave to "true friendship" at her wedding, I went looking for a clip that showed the highlights of the Sam/Carly relationship.

KeMo has had physical fights with every version of Carly except SBr. I don't need or want them to brawl again but they do not like each other.  
 

Edited September 24, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

"You have been using Jason from the moment you laid your eyes on him, before you even knew his name."

Did Jason tell her this!!!!?!!?!! LMAO. 

[LeftPhalange]

2 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

After that repulsive treacly toast Sam gave to "true friendship" at her wedding, I went looking for a clip that showed the highlights of the Sam/Carly relationship.

KeMo has had physical fights with every version of Carly except SBr. I don't need or want them to brawl again but they do not like each other.  
 

 

I mean...it's not like they're BFF or anything. They haven't had beef in awhile and have become sorta kinda frenemies over the last few years. I think they've both learn to tolerate/accept each other and I'm fine with it. I'm not interested in seeing any more fights or arguments over Jason.

[jsbt]

I agree, they can be cordial. Too much shit has gone down in recent years for them not to try. I do think hugging and toasts is a bit much.

[KerleyQ]

11 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

After that repulsive treacly toast Sam gave to "true friendship" at her wedding, I went looking for a clip that showed the highlights of the Sam/Carly relationship.

KeMo has had physical fights with every version of Carly except SBr. I don't need or want them to brawl again but they do not like each other.  
 

Nope, Sam likes everyone now.  She's sunshine and puppy kisses.  She could never hate anyone!  (KeMo has to hate this shit.  I can't imagine she's happy playing Little Mary Sunshine.) 

[backhometome]

She hates Julian but thats pretty much it. I liked her slapping him. If only she could have slapped a few more people months ago. 

[Oracle42]

I'm fine with frenemy and I appreciate the reason for the détente, but the writers seem to be desperate to create a female friendship for Carly, and ......No. Stop it.

Carly doesn't do female friends. And Nina was never a possible option even before she kidnapped Carly's granddaughter.

FFS, why can't jelly & Frank write for RoHo, Rebecca Budig character and ME and hire an old GH writer to write for the rest of the cast?

Edited September 24, 2016 by Oracle42

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, KerleyQ said:

Nope, Sam likes everyone now.  She's sunshine and puppy kisses.  She could never hate anyone!  (KeMo has to hate this shit.  I can't imagine she's happy playing Little Mary Sunshine.) 

I got the impression she wanted an actual story and something to DO in the Fairman interview, but then again, she's been playing Sam like this for years and it also wouldn't surprise me if she was content just going to work. This show is kinda a lost cause in the writing department. Frank is very much focused on what actors he wants sharing scenes. Nothing else matters.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Oracle42 said:

I'm fine with frenemy and I appreciate the reason for the détente, but the writers seen to be desperate to create a female friendship for Carly, and ......No. Stop it.

Carly doesn't do female friends.

Exactly. I don't think Carly should be friends with any woman currently on the canvas, though it makes the most sense with Olivia. They've never been romantic rivals, and they have a decent working relationship. But I think it's totally in Carly's character that she doesn't have female friends. 

[UYI]

1 minute ago, dubbel zout said:

Exactly. I don't think Carly should be friends with any woman currently on the canvas, though it makes the most sense with Olivia. They've never been romantic rivals, and they have a decent working relationship. But I think it's totally in Carly's character that she doesn't have female friends. 

Or if she does, it has to be one like SWSNBN, one who is younger and basically have admire her because reasons. 

[dubbel zout]

The only reason Carly deigned to befriend SWSNBN was because of the connection to Sonny. Otherwise Carly would have treated her like any other girlfriend of Jason's.

Edited September 24, 2016 by dubbel zout

[UYI]

I don't know; I understand the whole thing about Carly not having female friends, but I think it makes sense that she had one--even for the dubious reasons attached to it--because it makes it appear more special, that she was able to find one she bonded to (despite the Sonny stuff/even if the woman in question possibly admiring her had most to do with that) especially after she died.

YMMV. 

Edited September 24, 2016 by UYI

[HeatLifer]

I don't believe Carly would be besties with anyone who was with Jason. Her friendship with Courtney was because of Sonny, IMO.

[Oracle42]

We're talking about a gal who used to stare, for hours, at a snow-globe. She was dumb, she idolized Carly, she hated AJ and she couldn't sleep with Sonny - she was literally the only female in the world Carly could befriend

[Oracle42]

My expression every time Franco is onscreen

[smoothoperator]

me too. i can't stand him and i will never like him. 

[Bwill3133]

I wish everyone got to react to him like that. 

[Ambrosefolly]

Quote

 

Very easy.

Because LL.2 was toxic to the core. From the start.  Co-dependent to a crippling level on Liz's part, emotionally.  Best thing that happened to the character was to have the stupid die in the fire in 1999.

The sun and moon never rose or set on Jonny Jackson, imo.  He sucked as a teenager and as an adult in his return.  Loathed him and the character he played.

 

Disagree. He was probably on of the most successfully child actors that grew up on the show. In many ways he will always be my favorite soap character.  The decision to kill off the character for 5 minutes wasn't a creative one, but because JJ decided to leave the show and many on and off screen talent that he would be impossible to recast, and in the end, I think the feeling was right.  I have never heard of a soap that replaced an adult actor with the former child one, but they did it for Jonathan. 

Nor, do I believe they were completely toxic. I think they were good together as teens and a first love, and good together as friends as adults and even as co parents, but they just fall about as an adult couple.  I like Liz and side with her on a lot of wars, except when it comes to Lucky. After they initially divorced, Lucky said he would leave her alone, but Liz came back after him, never telling him that the baby wasn't his. Liz probably was suffering from a lot of trauma from the rape because she never got proper therapy for it, but she was also an adult and was perfectly aware that a lot of her behavior towards Lucky was pretty shitty as Lucky was trying to make a honest attempt at restarting their relationship and family life. In his tirade against Nik and Liz, Lucky gave the line about believing that Liz had forgiven him for what happened with Maxie and Sam, when her behavior proved otherwise, and if she hadn't forgiven, the mature thing to do would be to not accept his proposal (yes, even if Lucky stupidly made it extremely public) Of course, because Lucky at the time was played by Greg Vaughn, Guza that he could trash Lucky in order to protect Jason and his stupid halo. I do think it was a testament to Greg Vaughn's own likability, that he didn't make the character completely hateable, and had people rooting for LuSam (who were actually a better couple than Liason. They treated each other as equals). 

[Bringonthedrama]

On 9/24/2016 at 1:17 AM, HeatLifer said:

"You have been using Jason from the moment you laid your eyes on him, before you even knew his name."

Did Jason tell her this!!!!?!!?!! LMAO. 

I'm thinking she heard that from Brenda?? I remember the last time Brenda was in town and staying with Jason. Carly dropped by, and I clearly remember things got heated between Carly and Brenda - Brenda said those words to her, or very close to it (she referenced how young Jason was and his brain damage, too). I can't say for sure Sam was around and heard, though. It's also possible Robin could have told her at some point. 

[HeatLifer]

45 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

It's also possible Robin could have told her at some point. 

Robin/Sam never had enough convos, unfortunately. They talked about Jason/Carly before the train crash in '05, but other than that, they mostly had an interaction as doctor/patient. Their lives were way too different.

But I do love that Robin obviously liked and respected Sam because of Jason. And really wanted them to be happy and be a family. I think she would have loved any woman Jason wanted to be with, though. Except Carly. Hee.

[coffee drinker]

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Disagree. He was probably on of the most successfully child actors that grew up on the show. In many ways he will always be my favorite soap character.  The decision to kill off the character for 5 minutes wasn't a creative one, but because JJ decided to leave the show and many on and off screen talent that he would be impossible to recast, and in the end, I think the feeling was right.  I have never heard of a soap that replaced an adult actor with the former child one, but they did it for Jonathan. 

Nor, do I believe they were completely toxic. I think they were good together as teens and a first love, and good together as friends as adults and even as co parents, but they just fall about as an adult couple.  I like Liz and side with her on a lot of wars, except when it comes to Lucky. After they initially divorced, Lucky said he would leave her alone, but Liz came back after him, never telling him that the baby wasn't his. Liz probably was suffering from a lot of trauma from the rape because she never got proper therapy for it, but she was also an adult and was perfectly aware that a lot of her behavior towards Lucky was pretty shitty as Lucky was trying to make a honest attempt at restarting their relationship and family life. In his tirade against Nik and Liz, Lucky gave the line about believing that Liz had forgiven him for what happened with Maxie and Sam, when her behavior proved otherwise, and if she hadn't forgiven, the mature thing to do would be to not accept his proposal (yes, even if Lucky stupidly made it extremely public) Of course, because Lucky at the time was played by Greg Vaughn, Guza that he could trash Lucky in order to protect Jason and his stupid halo. I do think it was a testament to Greg Vaughn's own likability, that he didn't make the character completely hateable, and had people rooting for LuSam (who were actually a better couple than Liason. They treated each other as equals). 

I will disagree about the acting abilities of JJ.  I always felt an air of smug superiority in his acting, even as a teen.  I chalk that up to being around Geary and it rubbed off on him.  I just don't like JJ and his acting wasn't any better than other child actors on soaps I watched over the years.  Same goes for my view of Kim Mc.  She was average as a child actress.  Frankly I don't get the preciousness that some fans view child actors with.  Perhaps its a GH thing because I watched soaps on the other networks and don't remember viewers heaping accolades on those kid actors at the time.  

The writing for Elizabeth was meant to trash her completely in 2009-10 so that Guza could fire Becky, imo.  It would have happened in 2010 if she hadn't thrown a curve at Guza with her third pregnancy, which he stupidly wrote into the show.  I pulled my hair out when Guza had Elizabeth go right back to "Lucky" on the heels of Liason blowing up in 2008/09.  Guza had her make the exact same mistake, lying to pitiful Lucky, again.  Like her fans wanted to see that again after sitting through it for the 3 previous years.  I have no use for the acting of GV either.  A model turned actor.  

Elizabeth was never going to be allowed to grow post-Jason because that'd take the shine off the J/s reunion.  I was disgusted by Jason's remark to Sam about Jake's welfare when he saw niz slobbering in the GH hallway.  Of course she had to look bad to deflect from him walking away with nary a backward glance.  

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, coffee drinker said:

I will disagree about the acting abilities of JJ.  I always felt an air of smug superiority in his acting, even as a teen.  I chalk that up to being around Geary and it rubbed off on him.  I just don't like JJ and his acting wasn't any better than other child actors on soaps I watched over the years.  Same goes for my view of Kim Mc.  She was average as a child actress.  Frankly I don't get the preciousness that some fans view child actors with.  Perhaps its a GH thing

Elizabeth was never going to be allowed to grow post-Jason because that'd take the shine off the J/s reunion.  I was disgusted by Jason's remark to Sam about Jake's welfare when he saw niz slobbering in the GH hallway.  Of course she had to look bad to deflect from him walking away with nary a backward glance.  

Lucky had an air of smug superiority (IMO at the time, definitely inherited from his father) when he ambushed Laura about Luke raping her.  JJ and KMc were different in that they connected exceptionally well with the actors who played their parents, and were believable in acting complex/difficult material such as being blindsided by a new brother during a younger sibling's health crisis, or having to accept that parents are most likely dead. The two actors played Lucky and Robin over the course of years, both in childhood and adulthood. This show has recast the adult Q kids, three of the Corinthos kids, Carly, Maxie, Nikolas, and others once or more in the years I've watched. I don't know if other shows do it as much as GH does. The only child actor on GH I can think of in the last 10  years or so who is still in the role now as a young adult is the Molly character. What people think of her talent/skill level is another matter.  In general, it seems like the child actors and their storylines are mostly unappealing due to a combination of bad/lazy writing, poor casting and/or lack of effort from the actors. I feel like JJ and Kim Mc never 'phoned it in,' either as children or adults.  

ITA about your Liz/Jason/Sam statement.

[Oracle42]

10 hours ago, coffee drinker said:

 I was disgusted by Jason's remark to Sam about Jake's welfare when he saw niz slobbering in the GH hallway.  Of course she had to look bad to deflect from him walking away with nary a backward glance.  

He's always done that though. That's been SOP with them since he rode off on his bike the first time. He doesn't fight for her if she walks away and if  he walks away, he does it without a second thought. Every other guy she's been involved with has cared more about her - I think it says a lot about the writer's view of the character that she would choose Jason over anyone else when he wouldn't do that for her

Edited September 26, 2016 by Oracle42

[stlbf]

The thing with Liason is the fact the show always used Liz as a placewarmer with Jason after he returned from his Michael loss trip around the world. Frons got a hard on for Courtney. Made SkipperBitch Sonny's sister and then proceeded to superglue her to Jason. Since TinyAJ would never be good enough for a sister of Sonny! Then they finally let that die. Then along came Sam.

The only times a Liz romance was well written was early L&L2.0, early Liason and early LiRic. Then it was like hey, people like this guy with BH? Well, they'll love him with *blank*  and Liz was tossed back into her laundry of boredom until Lucky was or Jason was done with their current Twu Wuv. Even LiRic2.0 was dumped for Ric and Alexis. They broke up because suddenly Ric was "obsessed" with Sonny again. And then he wasn't.  

Honestly,  I've never really blamed the suitor how any Liz love story ended. They all ended stupidly and on a producer's/writer's whim. Jesus, even Quiz was just dropped. They had AJ sleep with fucking Snarly!

There are 3 main men in Liz's love life: Lucky, Ric and Jason. ONS with Cameron.  Horrible affair with Nik. A few dates with the psycho Dr. Ewen. And we had AJ. Now we get treated with the horror of Franco. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by stlbf

[dr. gailey]

If given a choice between Saliz or Carsam, I roll with Carsam every time. I can get Sam and Carly being friendly with each other now. I liken their relationship to the Charlie Murphy and Rick James one. Carly was a habitual line stepper. Sam had to chin check her ass a couple of times to get her point across and now they can party together. If Sam got to chin check Liz a couple of times instead of forgiving all of her bullshit then I wouldn't see spots when they share scenes.

[Oracle42]

Sam and Carly are at peace now because Jason "died". I actually love the fact that Carly tried to take care of Sam because she thought that's what Jason would have wanted her to do / because Sam was Jason's wife. That's actually good soap.

But if Carly is going to start suddenly respecting boundaries with Jason (after 20 years!!!) I'm going to need an explanation as to why

Edited September 26, 2016 by Oracle42

[dubbel zout]

55 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

But if Carly is going to start suddenly respecting boundaries with Jason (after 20 years!!!) I'm going to need an explanation as to why

This is the woman who's suddenly tired of all the violence in Port Charles. The violence her husband has a gigantic hand in making. We're never going to get a reasonable explanation for anything.

[UYI]

7 hours ago, stlbf said:

The thing with Liason is the fact the show always used Liz as a placewarmer with Jason after he returned from his Michael loss trip around the world. Frons got a hard on for Courtney. Made SkipperBitch Sonny's sister and then proceeded to superglue her to Jason. Since TinyAJ would never be good enough for a sister of Sonny! Then they finally let that die. Then along came Sam.

The only times a Liz romance was well written was early L&L2.0, early Liason and early LiRic. Then it was like hey, people like this guy with BH? Well, they'll love him with *blank*  and Liz was tossed back into her laundry of boredom until Lucky was or Jason was done with their current Twu Wuv. Even LiRic2.0 was dumped for Ric and Alexis. They broke up because suddenly Ric was "obsessed" with Sonny again. And then he wasn't.  

Honestly,  I've never really blamed the suitor how any Liz love story ended. They all ended stupidly and on a producer's/writer's whim. Jesus, even Quiz was just dropped. They had AJ sleep with fucking Snarly!

There are 3 main men in Liz's love life: Lucky, Ric and Jason. ONS with Cameron.  Horrible affair with Nik. A few dates with the psycho Dr. Ewen. And we had AJ. Now we get treated with the horror of Franco. 

Zander. Cam would be weird, since that's her son. ;)

[stlbf]

6 hours ago, UYI said:

Zander. Cam would be weird, since that's her son. ;)

Insomnia makes me weird. ;)

[dubbel zout]

Cameron is also the name of Zander's father.

[UYI]

17 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Cameron is also the name of Zander's father.

I thought of mentioning that too, but didn't. Liz with a much older guy like that might be interesting, though. 

[HeatLifer]

I just got caught up in old promos and can't stop laughing. It's both cheesy and awesome.

Liz/Zander/Jason

Jason/Keesha/AJ

Jason/Courtney 

Robin/Stone

[dubbel zout]

Oof, I miss SoapNet.

[HeatLifer]

Sonny/Brenda/Carly 

Nik/Liz/Emily/Lucky

Who will Jason be??? (Spoiler alert: He wakes up as the same shit he was before)

[UYI]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Oof, I miss SoapNet.

I think a lot of those are from ABC, though-- a lot of them are too old to be from SoapNet. 

[HeatLifer]

15 minutes ago, UYI said:

I think a lot of those are from ABC, though-- a lot of them are too old to be from SoapNet. 

The Courtney/Jason was the only SoapNet one.

[Oracle42]

Yeah but Soapnet is basically our only chance of seeing real soap at this point, unless you watch CBS

[HeatLifer]

Does anyone remember why Jason and Courtney decided to get married in France of all places? I'm having a total mindblock.

[ulkis]

Probably Courtney wanted to.

[Chairperson Meow]

The "Who will Jason be?" promo gets me every single time lol.  But oddly, it is more intriguing than what's going on now.