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These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

catrox14

By catrox14
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now Dean obviously isn't going to end at the bottom of the ocean but if that was his actual end, I'd consider it tragic but deeply heroic. There are far worse endings the character could have than to go out protecting the world. 

Id consider that a heroic and tragic end.  But we know that Death has an affinity for Dean so she could come and take his soul so only his body is trapped, so make it a better ending for him.

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Casseiopeia
Casseiopeia

The caption should be..."Dean looking for his dropped storyline"

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers ov

ahrtee
ahrtee

Also non-snarky:  I know I was hoping that the story would focus on Dean/Michael and not Sam learning to be a leader, Jack learning to be human, and Mary/Bobby.  I was hoping that we would get to actu

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MysteryGuest

MysteryGuest

Well, since the show did "go there" with Chuck, even though many of us thought it was a bad idea, I'm not sure how they'd explain why Dean would be spending eternity in a box at the bottom of the ocean with Michael, while Chuck was off working on his tan somewhere with Amara.  God is already a less-than-perfect father on this show.  That would make him downright despicable.  I really will not be happy if after leaving Dean and Sam in charge of mankind, God allows them to sacrifice themselves one final time to eternal damnation.  What a dissatisfying ending that would be for me to watch.  I'm prepared for them to not skip off into the sunset, but they certainly deserve better than that fate.  

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tessathereaper

tessathereaper

4 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

Had the writers taken Demon Dean to the logical extent that it could have, what would that have meant for Dean's character in the end? After all, they couldn't keep him as a demon forever and once he was back to normal, how would he handle all the things that he did as a demon? We already know that he was haunted by what he did in hell in order to get off the rack but that could be excused because of the extreme conditions he was operating under. I don't think that anyone would blame Dean for giving in to stop what had been decades of torture.

But doing the harm that a demon could do topside if given free rein? Would Dean be able to handle the fact that he killed and maimed innocents for shits and giggles. If he raped, would he go back to being the Dean that we all know and love? Sure, it would be fascinating but it would be devastating to his character and how the audience is being asked to see his character. Sure, we would be able to excuse those things to a certain degree because these are things that Dean would not have done under normal circumstances (the way that Sam's behavior while he was soulless should be excused), but he would still have the shoulder the fact that he did those things. I think that the writers made the right call by pulling the plug on that storyline when they did because letting it go on would have irrevocably changed Dean's character. 

I feel the same way about the Michael/Dean storyline. At least when Sam was possessed by Lucifer, it was for a brief period and we didn't have to sit through watching Sam being a tool used to destroy the world. So far, Dean had been far more effective in allowing Michael to fulfill his plans and I think that there's only so long and so far that the writers can push things before really causing damage to Dean's character. At some point they are going to have to figure out a way to extradite Dean out of this mess without ruining him in the process which means there's only so far they can push things. 

The box is no more a good solution than Sam throwing himself into Lucifer's cage for all eternity. Makes for good drama, but I used to get totally steamed whenever I read that Swan Song would have made a good series finale if that was the way things panned out. Sure... what a great ending for the show. Dean goes on to a not-so-happily ever after, playing house with his bendy ex while Sam gets to spend all eternity in the deepest depths of hell.

Likewise, Dean's story ending trapped in a box with a vengeful archangel for all eternity is not how I would want to see his story end. And we know that it's not ending so the writers are going to have to pull us back from the edge that they were ready to pitch us over and give some kind of excuse as to why they didn't go that route. Either the box doesn't work, or one of the boys has to pull the plug on the idea. Otherwise Dean ends up meeting a very bleak (and I would argue anti-climatic) end. 

With regards to the first, that would have been interesting to see explored.  That is precisely the point of that sort of characterization, to explore how far can they go, how much can they come back and how much will it change them.  I have little doubt Dean could have still been Dean.  The whole point is to show a protagonists STRENGTH in facing and dealing with something like that.

As for Sam throwing himself in with Lucifer and Dean with Michael - well they would have been good solutions.  They are good solutions, if other individuals don't them f*** them up by pulling them out.  As for those left behind, well, people deal with tragedy all and the time and still manage to live over all fulfilling lives.  Are Dean and/or Sam too weak to do that?  Is that it?

As for Dean and the bendy ex - he should never have been sent to her in the first place so if you get rid of that part of it, which was stupid(and I liked Lisa but it was still stupid) and part of Sara's plan to..."domesticate" Dean for some ridiculous reason, that would have been find.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

5 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, since the show did "go there" with Chuck, even though many of us thought it was a bad idea, I'm not sure how they'd explain why Dean would be spending eternity in a box at the bottom of the ocean with Michael, while Chuck was off working on his tan somewhere with Amara.  God is already a less-than-perfect father on this show.  That would make him downright despicable.  I really will not be happy if after leaving Dean and Sam in charge of mankind, God allows them to sacrifice themselves one final time to eternal damnation.  What a dissatisfying ending that would be for me to watch.  I'm prepared for them to not skip off into the sunset, but they certainly deserve better than that fate.  

But that just makes them better than Chuck. Stronger, more heroic, more compassionate. Which would be completely in character. I wouldn't have a problem with a big hero's end. For a fictional character, that is a great ending. Better than I expect at this point from the show. I can always imagine the damnation wouldn't be eternal and fix it for me. I cannot do that with an anti-heroic ending.  

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

(edited)
9 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

So far for me the Michael storyline is a big dud.  Jensen is killing it in the acting department, but aside from one episode there really wasn't much focus on him.  I think Demon Dean got more focus in those 3 eps then Michael's gotten in 2/3 of the season so far.

For me, I appreciate a good motivation and multiple ways a story could go, and I think Michael has both over the Demon Dean arc...

I only saw the one way for the Demon Dean storyline to go ...Mark of Cain Dean was a bit different, though in the end they went the "expected" route, too, but at least for me there was more possibility there for a while and a more complicated motivation.

I posted more on this over in the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread as to why I only saw the one way for the Demon Dean arc to go.

6 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I would love to keep the Michael trapped in Dean's head storyline.

That being said, I don't see how Dean can go on hunts in that case. If he dies, Michael is out. And sometimes people die instantaneously. No time to get him into the box then. And can he even keep Michael trapped if he's just knocked unconscious? Do we know if he's slept since it happened because how is he keeping him trapped while he sleeps if doing that centers around the strength of his will. If I were Michael, I'd be trying to figure out Dean's waking and sleeping cycles even now.

Taken to the "Bitch vs Jerk" thread also (because I took the post there), but briefly, since it can also go here.

While I agree with you that this is a problem, the writers have ignored and/or glossed over snags like this before. In season 10, Dean dying would've meant that he turned into a demon again, but that didn't stop them from taking cases... or even taking any extra precautions that I saw should Dean be killed.

As I said on the other thread, I think they've given themselves a clever out here with Michael in deep freeze,*** and I can't see them not milking that cow for all it's worth now that they've hatched it (mixed farm animal metaphor there.)


*** Aside: I remember reading a movie review by Roger Ebert (from one of his movie review books) describing how he imagined the writers' room as they came up with the convoluted storyline for "Star Trek IV" and how it could help them connect all of the plot points. He imagined that after they got it all figured out, they sat back and smoked a cigarette (innuendo intended by Roger). I like to imagine something similar happened here when they thought up this Michael in the freezer in Dean's brain thing...  after much discussion: "the screwdriver is definitely Dean, but can that really be enough to keep Michael contained?" pause "I got it! Dean says 'My brain, my rules.'"   pause  "That's perfect".  ::Cigars all around::

Perhaps I have too active an imagination ; ) . Yeah, yeah, I know... they probably don't even have a writers' room meeting-type thing, but let me have my little fantasy.

Quote

We know that we're getting that Dean in the box scene tonight. And we know Dean is going to panic in there, at some point( and yes, IA, who wouldn't), but that can't be the only reason that he decides not to go through with it, IMO-not if they want to maintain the integrity of the character, that is. Unfortunately, I don't think that Dabb cares that much at all about maintaining Dean's integrity as a character and that's why tonight's episode will be yet another turning point for many in the Dean fandom as regards continuing to watch the show.

IOW, the reason that Dean changes his mind has to be more than just and only that he's scared of the manner of his death. After all, and as has been pointed out by others-this is a man who's faced horrific deaths many times before, including being buried alive once before, and torn to shreds by hellhounds(and he knew very well, what that would entail). This is a man who apparently "thrives" on trauma, so fear being the big reason that he changes his mind would only amount to character assassination(IMO) precisely because it would be so completely OOC for Dean.

My worst feelings spring from the thought that this is going to become more about how they're going to go about remedying Dean's abandonment issues with Sam than it will be about any concern for how the Dean character will come off afterwards-and the reasons for this belong more in the B vs J thread(as do my feelings as to why I think  Dean's/JA's storylines are too often cut short and/or dropped) than in this one, so I'll stop now, just to be safe.

Taken to "Bitch vs Jerk," but I'll understand if you skip it considering your attempt to no go there here... Sadly I had less willpower, and so I did.

Edited by AwesomO4000
ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

Sam is awefully smug in that scene.  Like he knows Dean is going to chance his mind.  So either he has no faith in Dean or he knows something.  I just hope it not something like Dean at the end, telling Sam he was supposed to talk  him out of it.  Because it makes Sam right that Dean is to weak to actually do it when it counts.

"You're certainly willing to do the sacrificing as long as your not the one being hurt," has a real probability of becoming canon tonight.

Edited by ILoveReading
gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)

Given Dean's little revelation about John 'sending him away when he pissed him off' tonight, I can't help wondering how the reunion is going to go.  Will Sam tell John how much he fucked Dean over, like Dean told Mary? Unlikely. I'm guessing if will be one more thing Dean apologizes for, making John be so tough on him. Urgh.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
Fucked and ducked are not the same thing.
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ahrtee

ahrtee

22 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

One speculation I had was that things weren't so great for Sam when John sent Dean away, and maybe that's why Dean felt badly.

Except Dean said he was sent away when *he* pissed off John, so he was the one being punished; and even if he felt bad about leaving Sam alone, he should still have been allowed to feel bad for himself, especially when John's disapproval would have been the most hurtful thing to him.

The main point I got from that exchange was that Sam said "I got past that a long time ago," which to me meant that yes, he *did* think that Dean was abandoning him (and was angry at him), and he didn't say anything now to indicate that maybe he was rethinking/reframing what had happened.  By not wanting to even talk about it, he was maintaining that yes, he'd been hurt/angry but he didn't want to hear any excuses or explanations.  That's not the same as forgiving or even understanding.  

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

28 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

One speculation I had was that things weren't so great for Sam when John sent Dean away, and maybe that's why Dean felt badly.

What do you want to bet that this is Sam's 'closure '. And once again Dean's trauma at the  hands of his parent will be all about Sam. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

And where exactly did John send Dean away to? if Sam was young enough for it to have an effect on him, then Dean couldn't have been very old either. Were there more boys homes involved here? Or did he just kick him out to fend for himself as some kind of fucked up tough love? Good God I really wish and hope that Dean was adopted.

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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

Except Dean said he was sent away when *he* pissed off John, so he was the one being punished; and even if he felt bad about leaving Sam alone, he should still have been allowed to feel bad for himself, especially when John's disapproval would have been the most hurtful thing to him.

The main point I got from that exchange was that Sam said "I got past that a long time ago," which to me meant that yes, he *did* think that Dean was abandoning him (and was angry at him), and he didn't say anything now to indicate that maybe he was rethinking/reframing what had happened.  By not wanting to even talk about it, he was maintaining that yes, he'd been hurt/angry but he didn't want to hear any excuses or explanations.  That's not the same as forgiving or even understanding. 

I don't think we can know that. John might have been angry with Dean for taking Sam's side for all we know, and so John wanted them separated. For me, separation seemed like the goal for some reason, otherwise John could've just punished Dean by making him do training or locking him in his room or whatever. And if separation was the goal, then it likely wasn't easy on Sam either. But that's just a guess on my part. We don't know for sure why John got angry with Dean and sent him away.

And of course Dean could feel sorry for himself, but that wasn't what he was talking about then.

As for Sam not specifically reframing what Dean told him, I thought that Sam telling Dean just before that he knew that Dean was the only one who was always there for him, took care of him, and raised him pretty much said that Sam understood how hard Dean had tried and how much what Dean did meant to Sam. Sam's facial expressions when Dean talked about being sent away and why he was away were what told me that Sam was rethinking things and that it made him even sadder.

And Sam didn't say "I got past that a long time ago." Sam said "I left that behind me a long time ago. I had to." ... which for me is different and doesn't mean anger at Dean ...at least not for that particular thing and this particular time. I say that, because Sam did admit to being angry with Dean in "Sam, interrupted," so he must have been angry with Dean at some point. But I'm assuming that Sam got rid of most of that anger since then. Likely starting after "Sam, Interrupted" and probably finished off by his time in the cage and getting out when he became more zen about things.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
Quote

Jensen was so wonderful in that scene. And I DO feel as if we're going to lose Dean at the end of the season. I'm joining in with Catrox and Gonzosgirl-it's coming, even if Sam and Cas can't face it yet. It feels a lot like S3 to me at this very moment.

 

In further paranoid conspiracy theory news, and things that make you go hmmm. Among the many tweets by Jated, Misha and multiple other people yesterday regarding the Season 15 renewal there was nary a peep from Jensen (or Danneel). Even Mark Sheppard acknowledged it.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
Quote

That is one thing Buck/Lemming got right.  According to their blood types John cant' be Dean's biological father.

At this point though, I want him related to Mary even less. That`s a conundrum.

As for the promo for the next episode, they seriously didn`t put JDM in it? I thought that would be promotion 101. Obviously, John`s return not kept as a big surprise either way. But for people who may only watch promos and don`t follow blog articles and the like or just walk by EW covers, that might have been a good idea to put him in.

Instead the promo makes it look more like they accidentally Bary Allen-ed (kinda an oxymoron since he never does it accidentally) the timeline. So, are there gonna be two sets of the brothers running around? Or just a different Sam since Dean is on "Wanted" posters and supposedly laying low? That whole thing looks, though, as if the brothers from the current timeline are simply dropped into the new one and are the only ones who really remember.   

I have to say after getting through the dreaded episode 12, I`m feeling more zen again. Maybe Dean will not get any meaningful closure with John which would suck but at least it wouldn`t destroy his character as episode 12 could have done if it went another way.

Also, the box idea is not completely off the table and right now I`d say chances are 30 : 70, it does happen as a cliffhanger. They might just shelf Cas` Empty threat and Jack`s dark nougat threat for Season 15. As they have done with the "heaven will collapse any second now...ANY. SECOND, guys".  

And since they haven`t transferred Michael out of Dean as of yet, I would say it`s safe to assume they won`t till the Finale or at least the penultimate episode. So he will have to keep an archangel at bay in his mind for weeks/months. That alone is amazing to me.

Edited by Aeryn13
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

1 minute ago, juppschmitz said:

Wait, what?

Children shouldn't play with Dead things said John's blood type was AB-.   Soul Survivor said Dean was type O. 

I don't really understand, but due to AB, being dominate types and O being a recessive, a person with AB blood can't have a child with O type blood.  There was a more through explanation  on tumblr after Soul Survivor aired. 

11 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Or just a different Sam since Dean is on "Wanted" posters and supposedly laying low? That whole thing looks, though, as if the brothers from the current timeline are simply dropped into the new one and are the only ones who really remember.   

I've seen spec that Sam is some kind of you tube star because of the way Dean shook his phone, when he said he was cool and Sam...yuck. 

Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
Quote

I've seen spec that Sam is some kind of you tube star because of the way Dean shook his phone, when he said he was cool and Sam...yuck. 

Dean said this version of Sam was "internet famous" - unless the cutting of the dialogue is misleading again - so it`s possible. I guess this is supposed to be meta though neither of the guys are super-dominant on social media. That would probably be more Misha`s domain than either J.

But if it is Samdiepie and wanted!Dean of that world, obviously their paths in life separated some time ago and in really big ways. 

Edited by Aeryn13
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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Children shouldn't play with Dead things said John's blood type was AB-.   Soul Survivor said Dean was type O. 

I don't really understand, but due to AB, being dominate types and O being a recessive, a person with AB blood can't have a child with O type blood.  There was a more through explanation  on tumblr after Soul Survivor aired. 

The one time I'm loving science :D

 

channing.gif

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PAForrest

PAForrest

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

In further paranoid conspiracy theory news, and things that make you go hmmm. Among the many tweets by Jared, Misha and multiple other people yesterday regarding the Season 15 renewal there was nary a peep from Jensen (or Danneel). Even Mark Sheppard acknowledged it.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Now maybe it's still coming, but even when Jensen is late to acknowledge these things - and he often is, especially if he's busy filming - Danneel normally jumps on this kind of thing immediately. But nothing so far, and that is odd.

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ahrtee

ahrtee

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Also, the box idea is not completely off the table and right now I`d say chances are 30 : 70, it does happen as a cliffhanger. They might just shelf Cas` Empty threat and Jack`s dark nougat threat for Season 15. As they have done with the "heaven will collapse any second now...ANY. SECOND, guys". 

Well, if Dean goes into the box, Cas will never be happy (ever again!) and so the Empty threat is gone.  

How about if Jack saves Dean by doing something stupid/dark, Cas is happy that Dean is saved.  The box is off the table, Jack goes dark and Cas goes to the empty.  Boom!  And Dean is out of the story again for season 15 (except to save the others).  

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

Yeah, I noticed that too. Now maybe it's still coming, but even when Jensen is late to acknowledge these things - and he often is, especially if he's busy filming - Danneel normally jumps on this kind of thing immediately. But nothing so far, and that is odd.

Now I don`t think Jensen is leaving the show. Pedowitz wouldn`t want SPN without both brothers. But it`s not like a "Dean in the box" story couldn`t be pitched to him where Jensen`s presence in the first few episodes is limited (though not erased) and then he comes back. Heck, if they wanna be lazy, they could lift the entire story from Vampire Diaries where one of the main characters spent the summer locked in a box under water and his own supernatural-ness kept him alive to the point of constant drowning every few minutes being unimaginable torture. Or they steal it from Angel where the main character was trapped in a box under water. Yada yada, better writers already did it.   

Would they do it? Likely not. Their twitter flunkies would eat them alive. That`s why I think chances are higher than Dean won`t be being to the bottom of the ocean. On the other hand if they just make it one of their ludicrous cliffhangers, then can easily bring him back in the Season Opener. Everyone and their dog comes back on this show, from everything. Until you are named Mark Sheppard and wanted to quit because of reasons.    

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I have to say after getting through the dreaded episode 12, I`m feeling more zen again. Maybe Dean will not get any meaningful closure with John which would suck but at least it wouldn`t destroy his character as episode 12 could have done if it went another way.

Also, the box idea is not completely off the table and right now I`d say chances are 30 : 70, it does happen as a cliffhanger. They might just shelf Cas` Empty threat and Jack`s dark nougat threat for Season 15. As they have done with the "heaven will collapse any second now...ANY. SECOND, guys".  

And since they haven`t transferred Michael out of Dean as of yet, I would say it`s safe to assume they won`t till the Finale or at least the penultimate episode. So he will have to keep an archangel at bay in his mind for weeks/months. That alone is amazing to me.

Do we know if John is still a hunter in the different timeline? I'm thinking he is for some reason and the brothers being hunters AND good men in our world will likely be more of the same kind of whitewashing that they afforded Mary and her deal with Azazel in that our would will wind up being so much better off than the AU because John brought them up in the hunting life here, while in the AU he didn't-which would also have enticed JDM to return, I'd bet.

The bolded parts are predominantly my feelings also this morning.

I'm still a little skittish about the second bolding, but in truth, I have more hope for this now than I have all season long. So there's that.

Edited by Myrelle
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

Do we know if John is still a hunter in the different timeline?

Probably. It would be weird if the timeline split during Season 1, though, before John died. I mean, Dean having a Wanted poster makes sense because after the shifter case in Skin, he was a wanted man already. But Sam becoming "internet-famous" is a weird trajectory. Does he blog about the paranormal? Is he this timeline`s "Ghostfacer"? That`s not really something I can picture.    

juppschmitz

juppschmitz

(edited)
1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

If there is a surprise at the end of the 300th I really hope its not Sam using the pearl to transfer Michael to his own head.

Maybe it's the reveal that Dean is not related to them. :D

(Just kidding, I haven't even heard of a supposed surprise.)

Edited by juppschmitz
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AwesomO4000

AwesomO4000

Brought over  from the "Prophet and Loss" episode thread...

33 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

At this point in the season, if he went into the box it would be as the season-ending cliffhanger, IMO-in which case, we'd likely never actually see him in the box again and the storyline would become more about how he got out/back and/or if he would be  brought back "changed" or "different" in some way; or owing someone or some entity for saving him or some such thing as thar. That's always how the cliffhangers of this type have been handled on this show.

I think this is what matters the most to some of us that the storyline stay centered around Dean and not shifted to another character.

I would be just as happy to see Michael!Dean return with a vengeance because I think it's going to be shifted over to another character regardless of where they take it but that's more suitable for the bitter spoilers and spec thread.

I mean, I doubt that we'll get anything even approaching what they did with Sam after the S5 finale AKA another long myth-arc storyline and role for Dean given to him right on the heels of the archangel possession storyline, but I'm not gonna lie and say that I wouldn't want that because I would-and something to do with Death would be my choice, if I could pick, but again this is probably more of a conversation for the spec thread if anyone wants to continue it there.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right that there won't be another long myth-arc on the heels of the Michael/Dean storyline - I'd say the chances are about 50 / 50 - because Dean already had one of those over seasons 9.5 and 10 and actually continuing on through season 11 with his Mark of Cain connection to Amara, and that wasn't that long ago comparatively. And considering that the mytharcs have generally gotten shorter as the series has gone along, that one covering a season and a half plus another myth-arc related season was actually pretty long... probably the longest one by far since season 8 started. And the most encompassing, in that it was pretty much the only main mytharc for much of that time.

Previously, when the show had myth-arcs, there would be multiple ones, so when Sam had his soulless arc, it was only one of about three main interconnected arcs happening that season. And his hallucination storyline wasn't even related to the main myth-arc, but was more of an emotional secondary arc mainly in the background and popping up every once in a while.

Myth-arcs now are generally shorter and are the only ones (or sometimes 2) happening at that particular time. There was the trial arc, and then the Gadreel arc - which overlapped with the mark of Cain arc, but then in season 10 it was all mark of Cain and in season 11 it was all Amara. Twelve was the BMoL with a little Lucifer thrown in. Thirteen was Jack with a little Lucifer thrown in, and this season has been Michael. (The "leader Sam" arc, such as it was, wasn't myth-arc related. It was more of a side thing.)

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Myrelle

Myrelle

10 hours ago, PinkChicken said:

What if Michael busted out and kept Dean in a mental version of the box for a little bit. It would probably keep him under control because it is a believable scenario that he thinks he needs to be in & thinks that breaking out puts the world in danger, & it doesn't exactly require much detail/events or time looping on Michael's part to keep that scenario going.
Win win win, we'd get more Michael Dean, the box wouldn't be completely off the table in terms of effects on Dean later, or scenes, but also busting him out wouldn't make any other characters be directly putting the world in jeopardy (since Michael is already out).

Yikes. This is so diabolical-and completely IC for AU Michael, too.

I'm not sure if I'd rather they go with Michael escaping or Dean going into the box with Michael at the end of the season-or at some point this season-and I say that last part after just having caught up on some other spoilers in the spoilers and spec thread.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

So in the AU Sam is internet famous and Dean is a wanted criminal. 

Not surprising in Dabb Natural.

My biggest worries are Sam getting a "heart wish" and the BM scene (i'm guessing willl happen) at the end.

Because I'm sure Sam's wish would be to take away Dean's burden and he'd end up with Michael in his head.   And if Deans' wish is to say goodbye Sam will interpret that as "you still have no faith in me." 

Edited by ILoveReading
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

So in the AU Sam is internet famous and Dean is a wanted criminal. 

Not surprising in Dabb Natural.

My biggest worries are Sam getting a "heart wish" and the BM scene (i'm guessing willl happen) at the end.

Because I'm sure Sam's wish would be to take away Dean's burden and he'd end up with Michael in his head.   And if Deans' wish is to say goodbye Sam will interpret that as "you still have no faith in me." 

It doesn't bother me that Dean is wanted since that happened in the actual timeline due to his work as a hunter. However Sam as internet-famous is a downright weird trajectory. It isn't even really meta since Jared hasn't really been very active in social media for years.

I don't think Sam will make a wish at the end.    

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ahrtee

ahrtee

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

So in the AU Sam is internet famous and Dean is a wanted criminal. 

Not surprising in Dabb Natural.

My biggest worries are Sam getting a "heart wish" and the BM scene (i'm guessing willl happen) at the end.

Because I'm sure Sam's wish would be to take away Dean's burden and he'd end up with Michael in his head.   And if Deans' wish is to say goodbye Sam will interpret that as "you still have no faith in me." 

Hey, maybe the final wish (or whatever gets them back to normal) puts John *and* Mary back in heaven together.  They can be happily-ever-after with their dream families (so different from the real ones), we get rid of the Mary/Bobby SL and the boys realize they're functional adults and as long as John and Mary are safe and happy they don't need them in their world.  And maybe send all the AU hunters back to their (now safe, since Michael is in our world) own world.  Maybe the last wish will wipe out seasons 12-13 at least. :)

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

2 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Hey, maybe the final wish (or whatever gets them back to normal) puts John *and* Mary back in heaven together.  They can be happily-ever-after with their dream families (so different from the real ones), we get rid of the Mary/Bobby SL and the boys realize they're functional adults and as long as John and Mary are safe and happy they don't need them in their world.  And maybe send all the AU hunters back to their (now safe, since Michael is in our world) own world.  Maybe the last wish will wipe out seasons 12-13 at least. :)

I wish for this

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I don't think there will be a final wish. They'll probably have to destroy the pearl to undo the wish-verse which also means they can't use it again. That's bis those things are usually dealt with and I don't foresee the writers doing something truly groundbreaking.

The main drive of the ep seems to be angst, not really plot development. 

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
28 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It doesn't bother me that Dean is wanted since that happened in the actual timeline due to his work as a hunter. However Sam as internet-famous is a downright weird trajectory. It isn't even really meta since Jared hasn't really been very active in social media for years.

I don't think Sam will make a wish at the end.    

I like that Dean is "wanted"-because he is and by SO!! many. ;-)

And who ever makes the last wish(yes, if one is needed at all), I'd bet that it's most likely going to have to be to go back to the real timeline just as they left it in order to not screw anything up more.

Edited by Myrelle
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ahrtee

ahrtee

3 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And who ever makes the wish(yes, if one is needed), I'd bet that it's most likely going to have to be to go back to the real timeline just as they left it in order to not screw anything up more.

I guess that's true (*sigh*), though it's also pretty funny, considering how screwed up the timeline is anyway (as in, say, Mary being returned by Amara, or rifts being opened into another world and people from another reality showing up in ours, including having two Michaels occupying the same space and time...)  

 

7 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don't think there will be a final wish. They'll probably have to destroy the pearl to undo the wish-verse which also means they can't use it again.

Yeah, that's what they had to do with the magic-wish coin, and the angst will come from knowing that to destroy the pearl means John will be gone again (and I'm sure they'll be most upset at what that will do to Mommy dearest...) 

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Myrelle

Myrelle

4 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I guess that's true (*sigh*), though it's also pretty funny, considering how screwed up the timeline is anyway (as in, say, Mary being returned by Amara, or rifts being opened into another world and people from another reality showing up in ours, including having two Michaels occupying the same space and time...)  

Heh. I hear you. But  I'm sure that in Dabbernatural all of it can be explained away by the thought that all of those things were actually supposed to happen(IOW, fated to happen) in our timeline-even all those changes to Death's library. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

True that.  lol. 

I wonder what Sam is internet famous for.  Dean's reaction was "yuck".  Someone asked if it was Logan Paul'ish and the person said no.

No idea. Knowing Dabb, it's probably something nonsensical that noone would get famous for on the internet.

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ahrtee

ahrtee

11 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Heh. I hear you. But  I'm sure that in Dabbernatural all of it can be explained away by the thought that all of those things were actually supposed to happen(IOW, fated to happen) in our timeline-even all those changes to Death's library. 

Except that Death seemed pretty surprised/pissed at all of those things, which (considering her perspective) she should have known or at least accepted.  *sigh* But that's the reality of the writing these days. 

Whatever happened to the Fates (as seen in My Heart Will Go On)?  I thought at that point they were pretty, um, pointless (and very angry about it) since the Winchesters at least were changing their fates constantly.  

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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
28 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Except that Death seemed pretty surprised/pissed at all of those things, which (considering her perspective) she should have known or at least accepted.  *sigh* But that's the reality of the writing these days. 

Whatever happened to the Fates (as seen in My Heart Will Go On)?  I thought at that point they were pretty, um, pointless (and very angry about it) since the Winchesters at least were changing their fates constantly.  

Yeah, but that could all be part and parcel of their being born into a timeline and/or universe-and yes, they are definitely pains in the ass to Death, but she also seemed to indicate in Advanced Thanatology that it was necessary that Dean remain alive at that point and this, even though, yes, she didn't like it.

And I really liked the Fates and hope that they're still around because I'd like to see them again and maybe meet all the sisters on the second go round.

Edited by Myrelle
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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

https://www.hypable.com/supernatural-300-14x13-screener-secrets/

This is making me dread the John stuff.  But this reviewer is so biased I'm trying to take it with a grain of salt.

There are a group of teens who know what the Winchesters do.  How stupid is this.  It makes me wonder if Dabb was trying to set up yet another back door pilot/spin off attempt. 

It sounds like once again we get a scene of Dean having to beg for his love ones not to kill him.  I'm tired of those scenes.

Quote

You wanna talk about episode throwbacks? Count in “Goodbye Stranger” – 300 comes complete with Dean’s Patented Meaningful Bloody-Faced Begging. Don’t worry – regular Cas does come home at the end of the episode, and he’s wearing his newest trench coat (as opposed to his original one, seen below) to prove it.

 

Edited by ILoveReading
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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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