These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Aeryn13]

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Wait, what?  I missed this spoiler. So it's like Amara 2.0? Or Lucifer 2.0? I'm confused!

It`s from this

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Question: Is there any word on God or Amara returning to Supernatural this season? With Michael on the loose, it seems prime for their return. —Thomas
Ausiello: “Going back to Season 5 of the show, the whole plan for staging an apocalypse was to get God to come back,” EP Andrew Dabb notes. “And I don’t know that Michael’s necessarily abandoned that idea, although on his previous world, he staged an apocalypse, killed Lucifer… he did everything you should have done to make God take notice; and God didn’t care.”

The retconning of Season 5 motivations continues... Or maybe Dabb and co never even understood this Season. Bucklemming certainly don`t what with their stupid "Lucifer is the older brother".  

[catrox14]

38 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It`s from this

The retconning of Season 5 motivations continues... Or maybe Dabb and co never even understood this Season. Bucklemming certainly don`t what with their stupid "Lucifer is the older brother".  

That's.....not what happened at fucking all.  I can't even.  WOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW.  

Holy, What the Everloving Frak??

He was....killing Lucifer...because that's what he believed God wanted him to do and said it was God's orders......WTF....

As much as the retcons stun me this is too much.  JFC.

Edited December 8, 2018 by catrox14

[Aeryn13]

Having rewatched the promo and the second episode scene of Michael, the eye flash looks exactly the same so apparently werewolf-chick is Michael after all. For no reason whatsoever. I mean, it`s not like the actress or the character left an impression in that episode. Blergh.

[Res]

37 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Having rewatched the promo and the second episode scene of Michael, the eye flash looks exactly the same so apparently werewolf-chick is Michael after all. For no reason whatsoever. I mean, it`s not like the actress or the character left an impression in that episode. Blergh.

Called it! As to why they would do this, well, because apparently anybody is better at playing Michael then Jensen in their opinion.

There are literally no words to describe how much I hate these writers and this writers and the showrunner now.

[Wateroflife]

Based in the promo and ep. summary for next week, it looks is if Michael's plan (at least regarding Dean) was to leave Dean (while still keeping a spy channel open) so that Dean would get the spear for him. Dean's memories are full of examples of his superhuman powers of moral persuasion (he had the king of hell, god and his sister is his back pocket). He knew Dean could convince Kiaia to give up the spear, at which time Michael jumps back into his perfect vessel? At least I hope so. Any endgame for Michael that doesn't involve having his supposed perfect vessel will be really disappointing to me.

Unfortunately, this theory doesn't jive with Jensen's recent comment about Dean's wonky vision problem "festering". That comment depressingly suggests that Dean's storyline will continue to stagnate as it has for the first half of the season.

[Aeryn13]

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Based in the promo and ep. summary for next week, it looks is if Michael's plan (at least regarding Dean) was to leave Dean (while still keeping a spy channel open) so that Dean would get the spear for him. Dean's memories are full of examples of his superhuman powers of moral persuasion (he had the king of hell, god and his sister is his back pocket). He knew Dean could convince Kiaia to give up the spear,

While Michael stupidly got down into fisticuffs with her and the spear did hurt him, he still could have used his powers then easily to kill her and take it. Like, did he really need to make up such an elaborately complicated plan with Dean just for this stupid toothpick? 

Well, it`s the SPN writers so probably. 

[Wateroflife]

Agreed that it's a stupid plan. I'm just desperately grasping at straws that Dean's story with Michael isn't over. That storyline was what got me to watch the episodes live this year and so far I feel like Dabb and co. have conned me hard with a shell game, focusing on Jack instead of the actual show leads. I was pretty neutral on Jack at the end of s13, but now I loathe him.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Wateroflife
Apparently my brain doesn't grok common idioms.

[juppschmitz]

9 hours ago, Wateroflife said:

Agreed that it's a stupid plan. I'm just desperately grasping at straws that Dean's story with Michael isn't over. That storyline was what got me to watch the episodes live this year and so far I feel like Dabb and co. have conned me hard with a shell game, focusing on Jack instead of the actual show leads. I was pretty neutral on Jack at the end of s13, but now I loathe him.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the whole Michael thing was nothing but bait to keep Dean girls watching.

Well, didn't work on me.

[ILoveReading]

 I bet this will take up most of the back half of the season.

[Aeryn13]

Another tweet said this

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rachel  🍊 #SPNJAX & #Swainlanta 2.0  🥳‏ @keylimedean

Jared had real fun playing Gary!Sam in Swap Meat, Jensen says there’s a New Version of Sam coming up soon that also gave them a laugh #SPNJAX

This would point more to a comedy iteration for one episode.  

[catrox14]

 

This tweet is giving me false hope that Michael!Dean isn't done.  That said, the previous tweets make me think it will be Michael!Dean!Sam. 

I will bet you one internet dollar

Hmmmm...so which set would this be? It's not Purgatory because that was revisited in s10, unless Jensen just plain forgot.  Bobby's cabin? Some old hotel room? What do you guys thinks?

 

 

[Res]

2 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 

This tweet is giving me false hope that Michael!Dean isn't done.  That said, the previous tweets make me think it will be Michael!Dean!Sam. 

I will bet you one internet dollar

fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me trice,  . . . .

Sorry but I really don't care any more to even look interested enough to bite anymore because at the end of the day if it's related to Dean, it will only last a hot second if that.

[Aeryn13]

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Hmmmm...so which set would this be? It's not Purgatory because that was revisited in s10, unless Jensen just plain forgot.  Bobby's cabin? Some old hotel room? What do you guys thinks?

Apparently it was the Watchmen backlot. Though I have no idea what/when they filmed there.

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That said, the previous tweets make me think it will be Michael!Dean!Sam. 

Be gone, unclean thing.  *jazz hands* 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Apparently it was the Watchmen backlot. Though I have no idea what/when they filmed there.

I believe they filmed The End there, and in 9,02 if I recall  correctly. 

I'm surprised they filmed there.  It was mentioned a while ago that the state of the place made it too dangerous to film in.

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I believe they filmed The End there, and in 9,02 if I recall  correctly. 

I'm surprised they filmed there.  It was mentioned a while ago that the state of the place made it too dangerous to film in.

Did they use that spot when Dean killed Benny and sent him back to Purgatory?  I sure hope it's not the church from Sacrifice.

[ILoveReading]

So I watched the gold panel.  The words Jensen used about the scene in episode 12 is

"Dean is in a bad spot, physcially"  So it sounds more like a location rather than a condition.  I'm still looking forward to Jensen killing this scene but I've lost my hope for a good hurt Dean episode. 

If anyone wants to hear it for themselves.  Its about 22 minutes in

Edited December 10, 2018 by ILoveReading
reposting the video

[Bobcatkitten]

I took it as a physical ailment - I'm thinking maybe all connected to the vision problems?

[Aeryn13]

Apparently a fan asked what their favourite scenes of the Season were respectively. Jared said one they are gonna shoot in a few days  - so obviously in episode 13. Sorry, such declarations from him usually make me shudder. Jensen said a "fairly epic bar scene" that is upcoming, too. Hm, depends on how that goes. I like badass!Dean so if it`s that, great. But doesn`t speak to the Season really that he thinks a bar fight is the fave. 

[devlin]

30 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Apparently a fan asked what their favourite scenes of the Season were respectively. Jared said one they are gonna shoot in a few days  - so obviously in episode 13. Sorry, such declarations from him usually make me shudder. Jensen said a "fairly epic bar scene" that is upcoming, too. Hm, depends on how that goes. I like badass!Dean so if it`s that, great. But doesn`t speak to the Season really that he thinks a bar fight is the fave. 

As Jensen tends to celebrate his cast mates, I am thinking dean is not even involved in the epic bar fight

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, devlin said:

As Jensen tends to celebrate his cast mates, I am thinking dean is not even involved in the epic bar fight

Jensen said that he was glad he wasn't in the bar fight in the premier because it was hell to shoot.   So you might be right.

[ILoveReading]

 

This answers whether Dean was stupid enough to trust Michael, and of course the answer is yes.

"He conned me." 

Dean isn't this dumb.  This all but guaruntee, IMO, that someone else will get the kill and I'm tried of Cas lying to Dean.

[BabySpinach]

28 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

This answers whether Dean was stupid enough to trust Michael, and of course the answer is yes.

"He conned me." 

Dean isn't this dumb.  This all but guaruntee, IMO, that someone else will get the kill and I'm tried of Cas lying to Dean.

Well, it is a Berens episode, so Dean is obligated to shit talk himself about how useless/dumb he is at some point, with no counterpoint or reassurance from anyone else.

And whenever a character is verbally acknowledged as being "happy," it's a guarantee that something terrible is going to happen to them. Berens did this exact thing back in 13.21 with Sam. He's really not very original, is he?

This episode is probably going make or break my investment in the season. Not too hopeful so far...

[gonzosgirrl]

On 12/8/2018 at 9:23 AM, ILoveReading said:

I'm guessing Dabb told Jensen that Michael Dean would last until episode 9. 

Yup. Only he failed to mention he'd be MIA for all but about 20 minutes of the first eight. And somebody else would be playing him after that. Psych!!!

I hate Dabb* so.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Yup. Only he failed to mention he'd be MIA for all but about 20 minutes of the first eight. And somebody else would be playing him after that. Psych!!!

I hate Dabb* so.

It wasn't even 20 mintues.  I think it was timed at 18.

[gonzosgirrl]

44 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

 

This answers whether Dean was stupid enough to trust Michael, and of course the answer is yes.

"He conned me." 

Dean isn't this dumb.  This all but guaruntee, IMO, that someone else will get the kill and I'm tried of Cas lying to Dean.

Oh yeah. There is no chance in Hell (or Heaven, or Purgatory or the Empty) that Dean is getting that kill. And of course Dean couldn't ever really understand how bad it was for Super!Sam and Cas to be possessed. Poor, dumb Dean.

Not gonna lie, I actually laughed at (not with) the 'when is the last time we had a no-strings-attached win' anvil. These writers. Oy.

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It wasn't even 20 mintues.  I think it was timed at 18.

My bad.

[ILoveReading]

Why isn't Dean more concerned about what happened with the Djinn and the wonky vision thing?

Does he not remember those things happened?  Or I guess the better question do the writers have any clue?

Just as I thought, festering= not actually happening on screen but so far repressed in Dean's mind that they don't actually exist anymore.

So far that Buck/Lemming interview about the Michael storyline not being that big a deal is spot on, and Dabb's was clearly damage control.  There was just no room for the Michael story in between Jack's consumption one.

Edited December 11, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

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Oh yeah. There is no chance in Hell (or Heaven, or Purgatory or the Empty) that Dean is getting that kill. And of course Dean couldn't ever really understand how bad it was for Super!Sam and Cas to be possessed. Poor, dumb Dean.

Yeah, that basically hangs a neon sign on it that says "that loser Dean will not get the kill".  

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Well, it is a Berens episode, so Dean is obligated to shit talk himself about how useless/dumb he is at some point, with no counterpoint or reassurance from anyone else.

Well, in the absence of the teenages Sues, Dean has to do it himself. 

[Wateroflife]

The dialogue in that sneek peak felt off for some reason, especially Dean's little speech about being good. In combination with the way Cas was looking at him while he said it, I got major 'maybe that is Michael pretending to be Dean' vibes. Since the idea that Michael is hiding in Dean is shot, I guess it must be bad writing. Or maybe, hopefully, it plays better during the actual episode. On the plus side, that is a really cool looking location! Thumbs up to the location scouts.

[Wateroflife]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

 

This answers whether Dean was stupid enough to trust Michael, and of course the answer is yes.

"He conned me." 

Dean isn't this dumb. 

Why on Earth are they playing it this way?! They could have just as easily played it that Dean didn't trust Michael, but felt he had no choice but to go for it and hope for the best when he said yes. Unless this "he conned me" statement is in reference to something else Michael did to him beyond not giving back control, it makes him look like a gullible fool.

Why do the writers keep damaging characters and Canon this season with all these unnecessary writing fails? They weren't written into a corner here. They could have just as easily played this differently with a small dialogue change.

[Aeryn13]

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Why on Earth are they playing it this way?

Because this episode is written by Berens, he who loves to take potshots like this. 

And while I normally have nothing against Dean and Cas scenes (they rarely do them anymore), I`m disappointed that they go after the Spear together. IF Kaia!Sue is in this one, to have any kind of narrative pay-off for her shitting on Dean non-stop during episode 3, he would have had to convince her here that he is worthy to receive the Spear. But with this dialogue and Cas there, it makes it far more likeable that Cas will ultimately retrieve the weapon, only for Dean to completely fail with it when he means to use it.  

Edited December 11, 2018 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But with this dialogue and Cas there, it makes it far more likeable that Cas will ultimately retrieve the weapon, only for Dean to completely fail with it when he means to use it.  

Dean will probably be a bully and demand it, and try to take it only to get his ass kicked by Teenage Mutant Ninja Sue, while Cas appeals to her with a sense of compassion and understanding. 

[Aeryn13]

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Dean will probably be a bully and demand it, and try to take it only to get his ass kicked by Teenage Mutant Ninja Sue, while Cas appeals to her with a sense of compassion and understanding. 

Yes, likely. And then he will be taken down several pegs when new Chick!Michael easily subdues him. 

With this new dialogue of "he conned me", there is this scene in the promo where NuMichael throws someone around and says "all this death and destruction, all on you" - now very likely that this is gonna be Michael blaming Dean for being stupid and being conned. 

Also, with the "I won`t be happy until I kill him", they will probably introduce that Dean has a special Michael-weakness and is absolutely the only person who never ever ever will be able to kill Michael. So he will learn a very special lesson on standing back and waving pom poms in the background so Sam can do it. Or Cas. Or Jack. Or someone random. 

Which will not be done with a cheesy, humiliating wirefight, Dean will not get a critical tangible assisst and Michael won`t be brought back for a do-over. 

[gonzosgirrl]

I wish some entertainment person gave enough of a fuck about this show to actually demand and get some answers from Dabb & Co. I mean, I know (or believe I know) that some concessions have to happen in order for Jensen and Jared to have more time off. But there is NO reason that the Winchesters have to be bystanders in their own show. There is no excuse for not having any kind of show bible, for flagrantly ignoring canon, not just from past seasons, but sometimes from week to week. The obvious fan-service and the dumbing-down and soaping-up of a classic series is a travesty and nobody seems to care.

[BoxManLocke]

That whole thing about Dean feeling "betrayed" by Michael and the useless guilt-tripping the writers are forcing upon him for choosing to get possessed is the weakest Dean-related storyline in a very long time.

 

They should have made it very clear from the season 13 finale that Dean knew he was sacrificing himself and that Michael would keep his body, because of course he would know, he's not a dumbass. That was the right choice to make and any consequences related to Michael being free pale in comparison to all that Lucifer was planning to do.

 

But no, got to have that quick and easy drama because we can't be bothered to build new long-term characters arcs (again, paraphrasing what Dabb and Singer SAID THEMSELVES. In front of thousands of fans.)

 

Between this and Sam's lame as hell Chief arc, which seems to have been all but dropped and offered absolutely nothing of value to the character, it's really not a good time to be anything but a hardcore Jack fan.

[Res]

37 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

That whole thing about Dean feeling "betrayed" by Michael and the useless guilt-tripping the writers are forcing upon him for choosing to get possessed is the weakest Dean-related storyline in a very long time.

 

They should have made it very clear from the season 13 finale that Dean knew he was sacrificing himself and that Michael would keep his body, because of course he would know, he's not a dumbass. That was the right choice to make and any consequences related to Michael being free pale in comparison to all that Lucifer was planning to do.

 

But no, got to have that quick and easy drama because we can't be bothered to build new long-term characters arcs (again, paraphrasing what Dabb and Singer SAID THEMSELVES. In front of thousands of fans.)

 

Between this and Sam's lame as hell Chief arc, which seems to have been all but dropped and offered absolutely nothing of value to the character, it's really not a good time to be anything but a hardcore Jack fan.

Which is why there is literally nothing but nostalgia for a show that hasn't been there for a while keeping me here (plus Jensen) and TBH those aren't near enough for this crap writing anymore. Honestly I'm kinda getting upset at Jensen as well for staying but he has a family to support and as much time off as he can negotiate so what does he really care about Dean and his character anymore as long as they don't do something that Jensen is definitely against, right? Might as well collect that paycheck with everyone else. I know he acts his heart out and never even attempts to be a writer but as much as they've screwed him and the fans over, well, like I said, he has a young family and has a sweet gig where he is. Just wish it didn't feel like he was bought along with the rest of the show but Dean is part and parcel with it. Sucks.

[BoxManLocke]

22 minutes ago, Res said:

Which is why there is literally nothing but nostalgia for a show that hasn't been there for a while keeping me here (plus Jensen) and TBH those aren't near enough for this crap writing anymore. Honestly I'm kinda getting upset at Jensen as well for staying but he has a family to support and as much time off as he can negotiate so what does he really care about Dean and his character anymore as long as they don't do something that Jensen is definitely against, right? Might as well collect that paycheck with everyone else. I know he acts his heart out and never even attempts to be a writer but as much as they've screwed him and the fans over, well, like I said, he has a young family and has a sweet gig where he is. Just wish it didn't feel like he was bought along with the rest of the show but Dean is part and parcel with it. Sucks.

 

Jensen and Jared make millions every season, not counting convention fees, so I'm not really buying the "support their familiies" thing, they're pretty much set for several lifetimes at that point.

 

However, they have an amazing work environment like you said, and I assume they feel responsible for the crew, who they are very close to, and these people's salaries are much closer to ours. They have to feel weird about potentially letting these people go.

 

I'm not upset at them for staying as much as I'm upset at them for not being more involved in the writing process and putting their foot down when need be. I know there's professional etiquette and the guys are obviously well-mannered and kind, but come on, this is a 14 years old show we're talking about, it's theirs more than the writers, especially since there isn't a commanding figure that we know of in the writers romm (to compare it to another very long running-show, Grey's Anatomy still has its creator on board).

I dunno, they don't seem to be fighting for the show that much, but maybe I'm deluded for thinking they should care or that they can't possibly be truthful when they're complementing the writers for literally everything.

Edited December 12, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Myrelle]

That sneak peek spells just another disaster of an episode for Dean/JA and the Dean fandom, IMO, and you all have already said why.

14A and 12B are looking like horrible twin half seasons to me right about now.

8 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And of course Dean couldn't ever really understand how bad it was for Super!Sam and Cas to be possessed. Poor, dumb Dean.

 

Yup.

Some of us called this one pretty early on, didn't we?

[Aeryn13]

The promo pics confirm KaiaSue. At least Dean is in a non-creating pose to her though undoubtedly she will trash talk him so more. And I still believe Cas is there to convince her to hand the spear over because obviously that isn't a Dean-trait. 

[Casseiopeia]

So my issue with Dean speech to Cas about angel possession is a little different.  How can Castiel stand there and accept Dean's apology about his lack of understanding angel possession when he is walking around in what is left of Jimmy Novak.  He understands more than anyone what that does to the human host.  He basically killed Jimmy (after torturing him for years) and destroyed his family.  Andrew Dabb should remember this.  He dumped the tragically damaged Claire on us in the first place.  Along with what Castiel did to Jimmy's body, not to mention dead Amelia.

Besides what we were shown of Castiels possession by Lucifer was Cas sitting in the kitchen watching TV bored to tears.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Casseiopeia

[BabySpinach]

I don't remember one time when Sam or Cas were made to admit that they didn't know how bad Dean's experience was and then verbally castigate themselves for their ignorance. Sam never expressed that after his own Hell experience, for instance, though it would have helped make up for the things he'd said to Dean in season 4. But it's always Dean who's just not enough, no matter what he does.

One comment was celebrating that Dean had "finally" acknowledged Sam and Cas' past pain, as if he were somehow inadequate until now or that he hadn't gone through plenty of shit on his own and never been comforted for it. It shouldn't be his job to baby everyone else, but Berens just loves casting him in that role. Same with his blunt honesty to Jack in 14.03 that was framed as dickish behavior, as if he's obligated to know of and cater to everyone's sensibilities after coming back from a major trauma. 

There's also zero reason to add in Dean being "conned." Regardless of what Dean believed about Michael's trustworthiness, saying yes to him was still the best and only option at that time. Michael's slow burn monster plan is leagues better than Lucifer unraveling the world within a week and enslaving the remaining half of humanity. So there's no purpose in making Dean look like an idiot for trusting Michael, because trust was never a crucial aspect of this desperate, last-ditch attempt to kill Lucifer. This is just another excuse to shit on Dean, as is Berens' MO.

[NoWillToResist]

16 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

Between this and Sam's lame as hell Chief arc, which seems to have been all but dropped and offered absolutely nothing of value to the character, it's really not a good time to be anything but a hardcore Jack fan.

I've only been slightly tracking what's been going on with SPN via the internet for the last several years but, with the meteoric rise of Jack to prominent status (both the character and actor), I can't help but wonder if he's being groomed to be the show's 'next generation' to allow the show to continue when Jensen and Jared finally call it quits.

I admit to being curious about when that final "we're done" will come. What will it take for J&J to walk away? Having young kids hasn't done it, and they shouldn't need to stick around for the money. Do they really just love their coworkers and crew that much?

If they want less of a workload, why not try to bargain for shorter seasons? That way, we don't get Sam and Dean (the "heart of the show" per everyone involved in the show) relegated to supporting players so the actors can have some time off. Cut the season in half and that solves both issues, IMO.

[Bobcatkitten]

I didn't take Dean's comment on possession as him doing anything wrong before. Just an acknowledgement that, like most things in life, you think you understand but really don't until you experience something yourself.

The "no strings attached" win line is not a natural thing to say. Bad writing. 

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I didn't take Dean's comment on possession as him doing anything wrong before. Just an acknowledgement that, like most things in life, you think you understand but really don't until you experience something yourself.

The "no strings attached" win line is not a natural thing to say. Bad writing. 

IMO, Dean's speech is a perfect set up for failure. 

[Aeryn13]

10 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

IMO, Dean's speech is a perfect set up for failure. 

Agreed. 

And I don`t mind failure in this episode - obviously they are gonna fail. Even the press release blithely gives it away. It`s only mid-Season and so they will fail just like they failed against Lucifer in Season 5. There is also the promo that shows that while all four walk in (Dean with the spear), at some point three of them will confront Dean. Ergo, Dean fails in his attempt against Michael.

That would be fine if not for that stupid speech. Because that speech makes it clear he has to learn a lesson on how he was egotistical and HE can`t be the one to kill Michael ever and at all. So he has to accept his place and step back. That is the "pay-off" for such a speech. 

If we were talking an enemy of Cas and Cas said it, the obvious pay-off would be that he got to do it, got to be perfectly happy and then get dragged away as the Empty said. 

Mid-Season Finale are often minituare set-ups on the Season Finale, at least on SPN. So this casts Dean out of the fight. And THAT just blows. 

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Mid-Season Finale are often minituare set-ups on the Season Finale, at least on SPN. So this casts Dean out of the fight. And THAT just blows. 

If we find out Michael can listen through Dean or control him then its just stands to reason that Dean won't be able to be in on the planning sessions or go to confront Michael.  He'll essentially be cut out of his own story (not that he was ever in it to begin with )

[AwesomO4000]

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Mid-Season Finale are often minituare set-ups on the Season Finale, at least on SPN. So this casts Dean out of the fight. And THAT just blows.

It could be, but I don't think we can know that yet. I remember a lot of fans being sure that Dean's speech about Amara meant that he wouldn't be the one to confront her in the finale, but it was Dean in the end who did confront Amara, so the supposed set up by Dean saying that he couldn't didn't really come to pass.

And at the time of all of that happening, I think it was mostly Dabb pretty much at the helm, so it may not be as straightforward as it might appear.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, AwesomO4000 said:

t could be, but I don't think we can know that yet. I remember a lot of fans being sure that Dean's speech about Amara meant that he wouldn't be the one to confront her in the finale, but it was Dean in the end who did confront Amara, so the supposed set up by Dean saying that he couldn't didn't really come to pass.

After being softened up by a lady with a pigeon.

Plus, we know that that ep was heavily re-written with Jensen, Jared, Misha and Mark all consulting.   There is no way of knowing how Dabb originally wrote the end of that ep.

[BabySpinach]

2 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

It could be, but I don't think we can know that yet. I remember a lot of fans being sure that Dean's speech about Amara meant that he wouldn't be the one to confront her in the finale, but it was Dean in the end who did confront Amara, so the supposed set up by Dean saying that he couldn't didn't really come to pass.

And at the time of all of that happening, I think it was mostly Dabb pretty much at the helm, so it may not be as straightforward as it might appear.

But that's the exact opposite of what's shown in the sneak peek. Dean in season 11 saying that he couldn't fight Amara was setup for him being the one to confront her. This scene has Dean determined to kill Michael, meaning that he likely won't be the one to do it. 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I didn't take Dean's comment on possession as him doing anything wrong before. Just an acknowledgement that, like most things in life, you think you understand but really don't until you experience something yourself.

The "no strings attached" win line is not a natural thing to say. Bad writing. 

But it isn't necessary for Dean to say that at all unless the show is trying to ince more "even the scales"  from when Dean was under the influence of the Mark, did not apologize for Gadreel. And if that is the case there is still  zero reason for Dean to bring Cas into that discussion. Never once has Dean dismissed what Sam and Cas experienced awful things. What would be nice is if maybe Sam and Cas take that opportunity to acknowledge Dean's suffering in Hell but that won't happen. IMO this goes more to making Sam and Cas more woobified at Dean's expense.

And why would Sam and Cas just stand there saying nothing. And no I won't accept the argument if "well Dean wouldn't take it in anyway?

All that said, I can't help but wonder if it's actually Michael saying these things to make Dean appear worse that  he is .or its just a setup so KaiaSue can get her "badass" kicks in. It is painting Dean as the villain which he is not.

[AwesomO4000]

15 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

But that's the exact opposite of what's shown in the sneak peek. Dean in season 11 saying that he couldn't fight Amara was setup for him being the one to confront her. This scene has Dean determined to kill Michael, meaning that he likely won't be the one to do it. 

But that can work also. Dean insisted that he had to be the one to kill Abbadon, and he did, just as he said he would. He also said that he would kill Dick Roman and he did. Dean saying that he is going to kill someone - sometimes with "mark my words" thrown in - and then him making good on that promise is something that does happen on this show, and generally because Dean doesn't take those things lightly and does intend to follow through.

More recently Dean said that he wold take Jack out if he went evil (and Jack took comfort in that)... and if Jack does unexpectedly turn evil, I would fully expect that to happen. Dean wasn't able to follow through on that "promise" to Sam - though in that case it was a reluctant thing anyway - but it would be interesting (in my opinion) if he did follow through with Jack.