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These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

catrox14

By catrox14
in Supernatural

ohjoy
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Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

34 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Has there ever been a more lackluster lead up to a new season than this? I am honestly baffled. I mean, I get that the network and the @cw_spn twitter and Facebook runners don't give a f**k about the viewers show (the Facebook page is promoting the Charmed reboot, ffs), but even the cast is showing no interest. The premiere is three weeks away. The interviews with Dabb and Company are confusing and conflicting. There are barely any photos or real tidbits out there. J2M are tweeting and talking about everything but the show. I guess if you're lucky/important enough to attend the EW screening you might be getting excited, but for us mere mortals - nada. They can't/won't even give us the super-sekrit ComicCon snippet. I seriously wondering why I should GAF at this point.

I'm willing to give the actors the benefit of the doubt. They're likely working their asses off every night and then between the travel and their family and charitable responsibilities and the fact that there are most likely certain things that the writers would kill them for saying or spilling...well, I can't really fault them for not tweeting about the show, but the PR dept. for the network is another story. There's no excuse for them, IMO. And yes, ITA that the lack in that regard going into S14 is worse than it's ever been before.

I'm still dying to see Jensen play Michael and I feel like I'm not in the minority on that and to me there's no reason that the PR dept shouldn't be all over promoting that, too. It makes no sense to me that they're not-especially if they're still interested in attracting viewers, both old AND new-which should be the biggest part of the job description, all things considered, no?

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Casseiopeia
Casseiopeia

The caption should be..."Dean looking for his dropped storyline"

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers ov

ahrtee
ahrtee

Also non-snarky:  I know I was hoping that the story would focus on Dean/Michael and not Sam learning to be a leader, Jack learning to be human, and Mary/Bobby.  I was hoping that we would get to actu

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 minute ago, Myrelle said:

I'm willing to give the actors the benefit of the doubt. They're likely working their asses off every night and then between the travel and their family and charitable responsibilities and the fact that there are most likely certain things that the writers would kill them for saying or spilling...well, I can't really fault them for not tweeting about the show, but the PR dept. for the network is another story. There's no excuse for them, IMO. And yes, ITA that the lack in that regard going into S14 is worse than it's ever been before.

I'm still dying to see Jensen play Michael and I feel like I'm not in the minority on that and to me there's no reason that the PR dept shouldn't be all over promoting that, too. It makes no sense to me that they're not-especially if they're still interested in attracting viewers, both old AND new-which should be the biggest part of the job description, all things considered, no?

Totally on board with the second paragraph. Regardless of the purported clamor for Dean to be Dean ASAP, which I'm sorry, I don't believe is the majority of fans (and I am also, lets call it suspect, of the supposed bro-only people who spout this), the show has Jensen freaking Ackles becoming their big-bad. They should be shouting that to the rafters. Why do I feel like if it was one of the Waywards, they would have had clips and photos and press-conferences out the wazoo by now. #bitter #yesIam

As to the first part, I also agree to a certain extent (re: spoilers), but pretty much every other show I follow, whose actors work just as hard, and are just as busy, and are just as beholden to keeping the plot under wraps, have at least shown excitement to be filming again. The silence (for me) is deafening.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

53 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

As to the first part, I also agree to a certain extent (re: spoilers), but pretty much every other show I follow, whose actors work just as hard, and are just as busy, and are just as beholden to keeping the plot under wraps, have at least shown excitement to be filming again. The silence (for me) is deafening.

I know. It IS odd.

Maybe they were given a Gag Order concerning anything to do with the show?-for whatever stupid reasons the PTBs might have for doing something like that?-and while I'm sure it wouldn't be legally binding, I just can't think of anything else. And it's so unlike these guys...

Maybe they are trying really hard to keep something under wraps, especially when you consider that not one of the actors has tweeted from the set. It's kind of a first, in that way, I'd say; but I confess that I can't be sure because I don't go on twitter.

I certainly and for sure believe you about the bolded part, though.

And the SPN Facebook page advertising the Charmed reboot is ludicrous and ridiculous IMO, too. Give me a friggin' break, CW. :-/

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catrox14

catrox14

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15 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Maybe they are trying really hard to keep something under wraps, especially when you consider that not one of the actors has tweeted from the set. It's kind of a first, in that way, I'd say; but I confess that I can't be sure because I don't go on twitter

The only thing I can think of that would be this super secret is

1) Dean is really most sincerely dead and it's Michael pretending to be Dean.

or

2) JDM is coming back for a cameo or something in Ep 1 so they are squelching everything. 

Sadly, my negative Nelly side is increasingly concerned they don't have more than 10 minutes of Michael!Dean. It might be fantastic and amazing but maybe if they give up too much in the promo materials they've shot their wad, so to speak.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Most of the reasons I think they aren't being released belong in the bitch/jerk thread

16 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

adly, my negative Nelly side is increasingly concerned they don't have more than 10 minutes of Michael!Dean. It might be fantastic and amazing but maybe if they give up too much in the promo materials they've shot their wad, so to speak.

. This is probably no too far off the mark because based on sightings of Jensen in Austin he filmed about 2-3 days of this ep which mean about 10-15 minutes of sceen time.

Normally, I'd take quality over quantity.  I know Jensen will blow me away with his performance but I don't have much faith in the writers to deliver quality.  So in this case I would prefer quantity just so I can watch Jensen stretch those muscles.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

50 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And the SPN Facebook page advertising the Charmed reboot is ludicrous and ridiculous IMO, too. Give me a friggin' break, CW. :-/

It would be one thing if it was reciprocity, but AFAIK other show pages aren't doing this for SPN. Somebody please correct me if I'm mistaken.

30 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sadly, my negative Nelly side is increasingly concerned they don't have more than 10 minutes of Michael!Dean. It might be fantastic and amazing but maybe if they give up too much in the promo materials they've shot their wad, so to speak.

Sadly, I think Nelly has it right.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Most of the reasons I think they aren't being released belong in the bitch/jerk thread

. This is probably no too far off the mark because based on sightings of Jensen in Austin he filmed about 2-3 days of this ep which mean about 10-15 minutes of sceen time.

Normally, I'd take quality over quantity.  I know Jensen will blow me away with his performance but I don't have much faith in the writers to deliver quality.  So in this case I would prefer quantity just so I can watch Jensen stretch those muscles.

I hear you and agree and given your second statement, this

37 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sadly, my negative Nelly side is increasingly concerned they don't have more than 10 minutes of Michael!Dean. It might be fantastic and amazing but maybe if they give up too much in the promo materials they've shot their wad, so to speak.

is likely also. And, in fact, you read my mind with your last sentence, catrox.

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devlin

devlin

Ok so judging from all the promo the most exciting thing to happen in this next season is sam grows a beard. In what universe does something so mundane as growing a beard lead the promo’s for a show based in the supernatural?

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)

No new photos, but apparently Sam thinks Dean is dead.

Nice to see his faith in his brothers's abilities continues. 

Spoilers really seems to have changed from "desperate to save Dean' to "yay he's gone.  Now we can breath"

Edited by ILoveReading
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catrox14

catrox14

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4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

No new photos, but apparently Sam thinks Dean is dead.

Why the Hell would Sam think Dean is dead?! He saw him alive and they even chatted. Does Sam totally not remember what possession is here?

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

Why the Hell would Sam think Dean is dead?! He saw him alive and they even chatted. Does Sam totally not remember what possession is here?

Sam never seems to think much of Deans' skills (unless its cleaning up one of Sam's messes) so I'm sure Sam doesn't' believe his brother can fight off possession

All my other reasons belong in bitch vs Jerk.

Edited by ILoveReading
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

No new photos, but apparently Sam thinks Dean is dead.

Nice to see his faith in his brothers's abilities continues. 

Spoilers really seems to have changed from "desperate to save Dean' to "yay he's gone.  Now we can breath"

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ! ! ! !

Is there a dog involved?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ........

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Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

4 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

No new photos, but apparently Sam thinks Dean is dead.

Nice to see his faith in his brothers's abilities continues. 

Spoilers really seems to have changed from "desperate to save Dean' to "yay he's gone.  Now we can breath"

Oh for the love of.....

They cannot be serious!  Does anyone watch the show?   Why in hell would Sam think that Dean is dead?  Sam wasn't dead when Lucifer possessed him....I can't even anymore.  If the writers have given up then I might as well too.

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devlin

devlin

With all dabb’s crap about other characters being finally able to breathe and now this sam believing dean is dead it’s almost a good thing that promos have been few and far between coz they are making any excitement I had about next season entirely fizzle out

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

9 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

*Sigh*

I wouldn't worry to much, I'm sure the story will focus more on how Sam grows from this trauma and comes out from Dean's shadow while Dean learns that he holds everyone back.

This is not meant as bitch/jerk.  It's is how I genuinely think the Michael storyline will play out. 

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Pondlass1

Pondlass1

(edited)

There are zero comments at the end of that article.  Wouldn't the news that Sam for some peculiar reason thinks Dean is dead start a fire with fans?   I mean... look what happened last time Sam just assumed his brother was dead.  

All dogs in the vicinity had better watch out.

Edited by Pondlass1
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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

11 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

Oh for the love of.....

They cannot be serious!  Does anyone watch the show?   Why in hell would Sam think that Dean is dead?  Sam wasn't dead when Lucifer possessed him....I can't even anymore.  If the writers have given up then I might as well too.

I'd swear that the writers said earlier that Sam was focused on leading the AU hunters and getting Dean back, and that he would clash with the former in regards to how to deal with Michael. 

Also, Sam LITERALLY TALKED TO DEAN RIGHT BEFORE MICHAEL TOOK OVER. Does he think that Michael somehow killed Dean afterward and is just wearing a dead meat suit? If angels could do that, wouldn't they all choose to do so?

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

9 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

I'd swear that the writers said earlier that Sam was focused on leading the AU hunters and getting Dean back, and that he would clash with the former in regards to how to deal with Michael. 

Also, Sam LITERALLY TALKED TO DEAN RIGHT BEFORE MICHAEL TOOK OVER. Does he think that Michael somehow killed Dean afterward and is just wearing a dead meat suit? If angels could do that, wouldn't they all choose to do so?


TVLine did a roundtable interview the other day, so its possible they mixed up some spoilers. Maybe Michael kills Dean and takes his place.  (not really sure how this would work but lol!Canon) They did say the empty would play a part this season. 

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Myrelle

Myrelle

2 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

I'd swear that the writers said earlier that Sam was focused on leading the AU hunters and getting Dean back, and that he would clash with the former in regards to how to deal with Michael. 

Also, Sam LITERALLY TALKED TO DEAN RIGHT BEFORE MICHAEL TOOK OVER. Does he think that Michael somehow killed Dean afterward and is just wearing a dead meat suit? If angels could do that, wouldn't they all choose to do so?

 

2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:


TVLine did a roundtable interview the other day, so its possible they mixed up some spoilers. Maybe Michael kills Dean and takes his place.  (not really sure how this would work but lol!Canon) They did say the empty would play a part this season. 

And there was that sort of throw-away comment from both of them at a con around the time that ep. 2 or 3 was being filmed about Dean dying again, but that it was no biggie. I can'r remember which con it was, but it seemed like most fans just assumed they were joking about things in a more general fashion, but maybe Dean does "die" for a time and he goes to the empty and maybe Sam witnesses the "death", because Baby Spinach is right about those early spoilers.

And I also remember Dabb mentioning or saying something about Dean trying to fight Michael, but that it wouldn't work out.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

43 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

 

And there was that sort of throw-away comment from both of them at a con around the time that ep. 2 or 3 was being filmed about Dean dying again, but that it was no biggie. I can'r remember which con it was, but it seemed like most fans just assumed they were joking about things in a more general fashion, but maybe Dean does "die" for a time and he goes to the empty and maybe Sam witnesses the "death", because Baby Spinach is right about those early spoilers.

And I also remember Dabb mentioning or saying something about Dean trying to fight Michael, but that it wouldn't work out.

There are so many contradictory things right now its hard to know what to believe. 

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Myrelle

Myrelle

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

There are so many contradictory things right now its hard to know what to believe. 

Yeah, tbh, I've kind of given up on spoilers at this juncture because of this, but I'm still dying to see that scene that they showed at Comic Con. And again truthfully, that, and little else, is the reason that I'm continuing to check in on the boards.

It really is too bad that they don't know how or chose not to capitalize on the Mean storyline via better promotion of it. I feel like big opportunities to increase viewership were missed because of that lack, but maybe the network doesn't care about promoting it because the show is so long in the tooth and they just figure that it can sink or swim on it's own now and, as such, they're using the $ to promote stuff that they feel needs more promotion-which sucks for those of us who have little to no interest in much else on this network, but I guess that's the way big business works.

Still, there should be some kind of reward for loyalty to the show. I mean, it's going on 14 years for no few of us now, and all we're looking for is that clip, FCOL.

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Lemuria

Lemuria

(edited)
1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

And there was that sort of throw-away comment from both of them at a con around the time that ep. 2 or 3 was being filmed about Dean dying again, but that it was no biggie.

There was a clip from the Gold Panel at CharCon where they said that they had been working late and JP  added, "We did that scene where you die."  It was the immediate reaction of both of them that led me to believe it was a genuine spoiler.  (JA immediately turned it into a joke but, too little too late, Ackles! ).

JP, the Tom Holland of SPN.  LOL

If they really are going to have Sam just assume that Dean is dead (and there was a previous interview which noted that Sam and Cas have given up but Mary the Ice Queen is annoyingly sure Dean's not dead--because yeah, that's just what she would do), then they learned nothing from the Season 8 debacle.

Edited by Lemuria
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

JP, the Tom Holland of SPN.  LOL

Hahaha, I read they give TH fake scripts. 

What baffles me is that this is all supposed to be taking place in that non-starter of a two-episode storyline, one episode, the Premiere where Jensen didn`t film much so likely the scene from Comic Con and the Anael one are his only scenes in the episode. And both are expositional via Michael`s plan (which is why I do believe the Comic Con scene won`t be cut, they do need exposition).

Then we have episode 2 and by episode 3 Dabb already talked about how "Dean does..."  And from shooting we know he is back by ep 4. 

Now maybe they are brainfarting again and Dabb used "Dean" and "Michael" interchangeably for episode 3 but with a Jody focus, Dean returning seems to be relegated to the B-story footnote. 

That leaves episode 2 as pretty much the only real "Michael" episode I could see. And within that extremely short "storyline" - using the terms loosely here - where is there even time for Sam to give up in the first place? They are not good at showing offscreen passage of time so it will look like Dean has been gone for about 15 minutes and Sam being all defeatist will look just as eyeroll-worthy as Dabb whining about how hard it is to write episodes without Dean. We`re talking two eps here, dude. Do you need some cheese with that whine?

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Lemuria

Lemuria

14 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Then we have episode 2 and by episode 3 Dabb already talked about how "Dean does..."  And from shooting we know he is back by ep 4. 

Episode 4 is the one where Dean "dies," so...what the heck?  It has nothing to do with Michael?  

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Myrelle

Myrelle

2 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

Episode 4 is the one where Dean "dies," so...what the heck?  It has nothing to do with Michael?  

This is all so strange.

And IA that their reactions in that video-especially Jensen's-make it seem like it's a real spoiler.

Isn't episode 4 the homage to slasher movies?

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Lemuria

Lemuria

28 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Isn't episode 4 the homage to slasher movies?

That's what I thought, too.  But why would it be such a big deal if Dean "died" in an ep like that?  Sam died in the "Wishes" ep; they both died in "Dark Side of the Moon; etc.  That sort of thing, everyone knows they'll be back.  If Dean does die, I'd want it to have more weight.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

This is all so strange.

And IA that their reactions in that video-especially Jensen's-make it seem like it's a real spoiler.

Isn't episode 4 the homage to slasher movies?

Yup, sounds one-off "he gets killed by a slasher (or possibly the ghost of a slasher)". Now technically these guys never really being killed by all these super-powerful cosmic beings but being done in by random mofos could work for dramatic irony but even THAT card has been pulled a thousand times by now. So now it`s just "wow, Sam is killed by random AU-vampires" or "wow, Dean is killed by...". Everyone has got to know there is zero dramatic tension in such a death scene itself so it needs to tie into some other plot revelation. As in the Sam-death scene was done to give him scenes with Lucifer and to set up Dean`s "ZOMG no" reaction in the Finale. I dreaded the death for that very reason because I could see the writing on the wall of not allowing Dean to actually sacrifice himself for the world like a true hero.     

The only thing that could give such a scene a little twist is if everyone randomly thought Michael has been ejected but he is secretely still in there and brings Dean back. Though that has ten potential logic holes even thinking about it.  

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Myrelle

Myrelle

8 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

That's what I thought, too.  But why would it be such a big deal if Dean "died" in an ep like that?  Sam died in the "Wishes" ep; they both died in "Dark Side of the Moon; etc.  That sort of thing, everyone knows they'll be back.  If Dean does die, I'd want it to have more weight.

It's probably that kind of a thing.

I'd like it to have more weight, too, but it will probably be like it was in Mystery Spot and enacted just to create angst for Sam, especially if Sam did think Dean was dead while he was possessed by Michael; and it would fit in with the Mean storyline becoming just as much(and likely more) about how Sam deals and will deal with Dean being/having been possessed by Michael as Dean, himself. 

IOW, I'm betting it will be a character episode for Sam, as opposed to Dean-excepting it will be dealt with via one of Dean's passions or whatever Dabb called it. :-/

ETA: Or what Aeryn said.

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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

 
Quote

Well, we all wanted Jack to be more than just warm and fuzzy, so we'll see how this plays out.  Someone has to play that role, or there's no drama.  Who's really left to take the counter argument against saving Dean at all cost?  I have to say it's going to be very strange watching Jensen play someone other than Dean.  It will probably take me a few watches to not be overly critiquing everything he says.  

I felt that the AU hunters would have adequately filled the antagonistic role against saving Dean. Jack being all gung-ho, with seemingly no hesitation, about Dean possibly dying just makes him look like an ungrateful twit. Wanting to save Dean is not strictly logical if the world is at risk, but 1. The world wouldn't even be there had Dean not said yes, and 2. Characters are way more sympathetic when they show some level of emotional investment in someone else, even if they end up having to make the hard choice anyway.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

35 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Characters are way more sympathetic when they show some level of emotional investment in someone else, even if they end up having to make the hard choice anyway.

Yeah, this might be the season that makes or breaks both the character of Jack and the actor who portrays him. Last season didn't require much nuance from him at all, IMO. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
On 9/18/2018 at 11:17 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

As to the first part, I also agree to a certain extent (re: spoilers), but pretty much every other show I follow, whose actors work just as hard, and are just as busy, and are just as beholden to keeping the plot under wraps, have at least shown excitement to be filming again. The silence (for me) is deafening.

Just quoting myself here because of the argument that the guys aren't tweeting/social media-ing about the show because they are so busy filming. In the last twenty four hours, Jensen has tweeted three times, Jared once, and Misha, well... a lot. Zero of those tweets are SPN related, unless you count the one from each of them promoting Kripke's new film, which opens today. So nope, not buying that it has anything at all to do with time.

ETA: And that's after the Ep 1 clip was released, when they could at least show some enthusiasm.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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catrox14

catrox14

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I've been watching the bits with Michael going into the red light and then with the people he's torturing or seems to be about to torture and thinking about the audio clip from SDCC.  Presuming those are all in the episode, and the red light is him going into Hell, which it might not be at all and just some dumb thing like the "Red Light" district) but if he is going into Hell, could he be finding demons to recruit or even torture with giving them some attempt at redemption if he joins him?

I feel like the scene with all those people tied up, might not be as straightforward as Michael just getting his rocks off torturing. He seemed to have a purpose in the other world to get information more than anything. Or to get people to bend to his will, not because he was enjoying it per se like a demon might.  At this point, I'm more interested in Michael's motives than anything to do with Sam, Jack and sadly even Cas right now.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Quote

I feel like the scene with all those people tied up, might not be as straightforward as Michael just getting his rocks off torturing.

It seems so random otherwise. He apparently has a plan but still takes the time to just torture some folks for...reasons? It this gonna be an incredibly simplistic way of showing the character is a villain? You have that shot of the girl cowering in fear. Is this really gonna be as simple as that?

Remember, they have to fit in this entire present-time "story" in basically 2 episodes. That leaves almost no room for, well, anything. 

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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