These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ahrtee]

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

It was in the flashes Dean saw right before Michael took over again in the last episode. He flashed to the scenes we`d already seen with Michael (not many) and then it landed on that bar with Dean as bartender. To me, that made it seem as if the bar set is kinda the "cell" Michael sticks Dean into when he has possession of him. It appeared to be the last thing Dean saw as Dean. 

Ah, thanks!  I didn't rewatch, and apparently it didn't make a very big impression on me the first time.  

ETA: Found the pictures, so thanks again!  I was assuming it was spoilers or media, so didn't look far enough back in The Spear thread.

Edited December 15, 2018 by ahrtee

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Oh wait, I'm confused. I thought the bit with Dean in the bar was the Mid Season opener. If it's Yockey then I have a lot more hope that it will be about Dean. IMO he generally writes great dialogue and he doesn't give it all away right away.  Maybe we'll get something as meaty as we got between Dean and Death!Billie.

Yes, Yockey writes the mid-Season Opener. 

And now I know why it is called "Nihilism". His last episode, the one with Dean and Jack on the hunting trip was called "Optimism" and now this one is called "Nihlism". Clearly a reference to Dean`s mind being dark and blank when Cas and Sam first enter it. Probably a larger reference to Michael`s persona of wanting the world to burn.  

[SueB]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

I'm missing something (well, a lot of things... :) )

Where was the picture of Dean as bartender from?  I know I saw it here the other day but can't find it now, and I went through the promo pretty closely and didn't see it there. I did see the bar as backdrop for a few fights (Michael vs. Sam, Cas on the floor, and what looked like Dean kicking someone in a dark suit on the floor...) but not the one I saw before.  Was it removed? 

On a separate note, if it was Dean behind the bar, I think it's most likely that the writer thought he was giving a clever  "inside" nod to the WFB Brewery and not making any point about Dean or what he would want.  

 

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Oh wait, I'm confused. I thought the bit with Dean in the bar was the Mid Season opener. If it's Yockey then I have a lot more hope that it will be about Dean. IMO he generally writes great dialogue and he doesn't give it all away right away.  Maybe we'll get something as meaty as we got between Dean and Death!Billie.

No the piciture is still there.  It's in the episode thread as it already aired.  I took a picture off of iTunes to put it there.  As @Aeryn13 said, it was in the flashes as part of the takeover. 

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, catrox14 said:

My headcanon is that Dean finds being in a bar talking to bartenders as his "safe space" away from his family (more or less). He can just go there and be alone and not be  lonely. 

Maybe he's the bartender this time because the person in the hoodie is there for Dean to help.  I think Dean is actually a great listener and people seem to want to tell him things ( I mean other than his own family that is LOL).  Maybe Dean's kind of helping that person as a bartender vs as a hunter.  Maybe he made a safe place for other hunters too.  

 

ETA: I hope we find out it's actually Dean in the hoodie and it's how Dean is trying to help himself.

Maybe it's more like WIAWSNB. In this reality Dean is a bartender or bar owner because he's a good listener,  or the sober drunk who faces his demons by being in a bar. I would not be surprised if the person passed out on the bar is also Dean. 

[ILoveReading]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe it's more like WIAWSNB. In this reality Dean is a bartender or bar owner because he's a good listener,  or the sober drunk who faces his demons by being in a bar. I would not be surprised if the person passed out on the bar is also Dean. 

Id like that becasue then we'd get 3 Jensen's in that scene.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

No the piciture is still there.  It's in the episode thread as it already aired.  I took a picture off of iTunes to put it there.  As @Aeryn13 said, it was in the flashes as part of the takeover. 

....which is why I asked for clarity from @Aeryn13. I saw the picture before but I couldn't recollect if I saw in it in spoilers or the ep thread or if I saw it on Twitter or where I saw it. 

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Id like that becasue then we'd get 3 Jensen's in that scene.

If we get that kind of closure or insight into Dean's mind I would be so happy.  It would also feed into my belief that Dean is going to be killed off this season, for real. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I totally see Dean being a bartender. Great place to pick up women :)

[ZennyKenny]

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

....which is why I asked for clarity from @Aeryn13. I saw the picture before but I couldn't recollect if I saw in it in spoilers or the ep thread or if I saw it on Twitter or where I saw it. 

If we get that kind of closure or insight into Dean's mind I would be so happy.  It would also feed into my belief that Dean is going to be killed off this season, for real. 

Wait what? As in permadead? Why would you think that?

[catrox14]

10 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

Wait what? As in permadead? Why would you think that?

I've been speculating this since "Regarding Dean".  I'll take my reasons to the B v J thread later just to be safe.

[gonzosgirrl]

12 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I've been speculating this since "Regarding Dean". 

Me too.  😁

Edited December 16, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Me too.  😁

Great minds think alike (or stink alike as my Dad used to say) LOL, 😉👊

[Myrelle]

So JDM is returning.

Wish I could feel more excited about that, but I'm sure Dabb and co. will find a way to ruin this, too; and the lack of any reported interactions between Dean and John is the most discouraging aspect for me simply because Dabb and co. cannot be trusted to do that complex of a relationship any real justice through a conversation that might occur between John and Sam or John and Mary-and as happened for the Sam/Mary relationship through that conversation that Dean and Mary had inside Mary's head in the season that should not be mentioned.

And even more disenchanting is thought that these bozos will possibly not even try to afford the Dean/John relationship any quality time or real closure at all.

So yeah JDM coming back means very little to this SPN fan-but again, that's mostly because it's happening under the present showrunning regime.

[catrox14]

I suspect that since Jared said Sam gets some kind of closure that he didn't know Sam needed, and given the  current regime penchant for recycling giving nods to past episodes, they will give redux the speech he gave to young John in s5, only now it will be to give it to John for real, maybe. He even had some peace with John in s1 before John died.

Because at this point I can't see  what else Sam needs closure about. He made peace about Jessica, he connected with Mary, they deal with his guilt over not looking for Dean in s8. He helped Dean kill Lucifer. Hmmmm, at this point, short of Sam becoming Dean himself, what is left for him that needed closure?  A conversation with Chuck?

[trudysmom]

Maybe John will come back, find Mary and NotBobby hooking up and kick both their asses!  That would give me some closure. 

Seriously, I can't think of any reason for him to come back now, in the current storyline.  Unless, like catrox has said, it's because Dean dies for real and John's here to pave his way sort of, give him a pep talk about how he's done his job, blah blah blah.  I understand wanting to make the 300th episode special, but they really don't need to pull out all the stops with past cast members or convoluted story lines.  Just do what has made the show successful for so long, make it about the brothers, saving people, hunting things. 

[Aeryn13]

Since JDM hasn`t shot a lot of days, 2 maybe? 3 at most?, the episode won`t hinge on John`s presence. Since time travel is involved, I figure that`s how they bring real John in and not just John as a vision/dream/shapeshifter/apparition/whatever-not-John-you-can-think-of. Now obviously time travel holds its own perils because any true emotional gravitas would only come from interacting with a John who knows what`s been happening. Otherwise, the brothers have progressed in their lives but they could still only talk to a specter from the past.   

Whatever happens, there is only one certainty for me: they are going to screw it up.

[gonzosgirrl]

I wonder if he is somehow AU John - presumed dead but, only Supernatural dead. There aren't many ways to explain a 14 year older JDM (who honestly looks older than he is already). Of course they will probably just hand-wave his appearance in the same way we're supposed to believe Mary is younger than both Dean and Sam.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Of course they will probably just hand-wave his appearance in the same way we're supposed to believe Mary is younger than both Dean and Sam.

And of course there was Cole, supposedly ten years younger than Dean but clearly looking older than him even. 

It reminds me of BBC`s Merlin where in Season 1 you got introduced to Mordred as a nine/ten year old boy and then in Season 5 he comes back as a 19/20year old - only the show`s main characters still looked roughly the same as in Season 1. 

So I could totally see them handwave a visibly older John`s looks. I mean, Amy Gumenick-Mary and Matt Cohen-John were supposed to have aged into Samantha Smith-Mary and JDM-John within 4 years of show-canon. 

[Ninamags]

JDM looks like shit warmed over. He looks emaciated. He's one of those that needs a little weight on him to make him look good. 

It's gonna look weird when Dad looks a lot older than Mommy dearest. 

[MysteryGuest]

4 hours ago, Ninamags said:

JDM looks like shit warmed over. He looks emaciated. He's one of those that needs a little weight on him to make him look good. 

It's gonna look weird when Dad looks a lot older than Mommy dearest. 

Well, I think JDM looks fine, but he definitely looks older than when he was on the show.  His return is really going to have to involve some scenario where he doesn't die and has aged normally.  It's too bad that we have to look forward to this 300th episode with more trepidation than excitement.  I wish that weren't the case.

Edited January 3, 2019 by MysteryGuest

[catrox14]

I'm starting to wonder if we might not actually get some kind of flashforward/alternate future  episode like "The End" but with Sam seeing another future instead of Dean? Maybe Sam meets a Michael!Dean and John is involved somehow? That would seem like the best way to have John look like JDM does now without having to age up anyone else that much.

[devlin]

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, I think JDM looks fine, but he definitely looks older than when he was on the show.  His return is really going to have to involve some scenario where he doesn't die and has aged normally.  It's too bad that we have to look forward to this 300th episode with more trepidation than excitement.  I wish that weren't the case.

I swear watching this show is like coming across a horrible accident where you know looking is the worst idea but you can’t help it.  On this show death doesn’t seem to mean anything, so characters aging when they are supposedly dead is no real stretch 

[ILoveReading]

I'm not looking forward to the 300th at all.  I didn't really like the 100th and I thought 200 was just stupid.  For me, 300 sounds like once again Dabb is trying to do too much.  To many shout out and thinking their clever and sounds like there are going to be so many guest stars that Sam and Dean will get lost.  Not to mention, I'm not looking forward to what the city thinks of the boys.  I have a feeling I know.

I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.  I didn't like the idea behind Baby but that turned out good. Hopefully this will turn out like that, but the Dabb/Singer combo doesn't fill me with confidence.

I can't even get excited about more Michael Dean becasue that looks like its like once again its over before it starts.  It looks like Sam gets the confrontation with Michael.  (With this show, what you see is what you get, and the promo clearly shows Sam fighting Michael).  Can't have a black mark on the supreme leader of the know and (and unknown world) record, so I'm guessing his hunters will easily take out Michael's monsters. 

The only thing I'm looking forward too is the scene Jensen mentioned at the last con where he said that Dean is in a bad spot physically, and Jensen said he made the crew cry.

Edited January 4, 2019 by ILoveReading

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I can't even get excited about more Michael Dean becasue that looks like its like once again its over before it starts.  It looks like Sam gets the confrontation with Michael.  (With this show, what you see is what you get, and the promo clearly shows Sam fighting Michael).  Can't have a black mark on the supreme leader of the know and (and unknown world) record, so I'm guessing his hunters will easily take out Michael's monsters. 

Usually from trailers and promo pics, you can rather accurately piece together how a confrontational/fight scene goes. Like, if you have pics of Dean coming in with a weapon but then being on the floor, you get a Deansel in distress scene etc. Or the Trial and Error trailer showed Sam killing the hellhound so that gave away he was getting the trials a week before, not that when the summary said only one could do it, that wasn`t clear.

In this instance the trailer for episode 10 is also rather overt. Michael gets captured right away for some stupid reason. We got this dialogue about Sam sending his hunter army to protect the city in the mid-Season Finale and we have seen how easily the monsters can be taken out so obviously, that is taken care of. There are monsters who will show up at th bunker and  it does look like Jack uses powers. That is the only point that is a "maybe". Or a misdirect here.

Sam and Cas will fight Michael in Dean`s mind. However, there is Dean, as bartender, curmb-stomping someone in a suit which I`m 99 % certain is gonna be Michael. So bascially he`ll scream "get out" in a replay of the Gadreel thing and Michael will once again temporarily leave. And why will Dean be motivated to suddenly fight Michael? Of course because Sam is in danger since it cannot be that he gets motivated by some greater good or to fight for himself, it will be for Sam. 

[catrox14]

39 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

nd why will Dean be motivated to suddenly fight Michael? Of course because Sam is in danger since it cannot be that he gets motivated by some greater good or to fight for himself, it will be for Sam. 

Oh, man. I didn't see that moment and now that you say it, I think you are completely accurate. Even back in Regarding Dean, he couldn't remember his own name but he could shout Sam's name when Sam was  in danger.

Sigh. I 100% think that Dabb only sees Dean as an extension of Sam. I hate it.

[trudysmom]

Heading to Bitch v Jerk.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Usually from trailers and promo pics, you can rather accurately piece together how a confrontational/fight scene goes. Like, if you have pics of Dean coming in with a weapon but then being on the floor, you get a Deansel in distress scene etc. Or the Trial and Error trailer showed Sam killing the hellhound so that gave away he was getting the trials a week before, not that when the summary said only one could do it, that wasn`t clear.

In this instance the trailer for episode 10 is also rather overt. Michael gets captured right away for some stupid reason. We got this dialogue about Sam sending his hunter army to protect the city in the mid-Season Finale and we have seen how easily the monsters can be taken out so obviously, that is taken care of. There are monsters who will show up at th bunker and  it does look like Jack uses powers. That is the only point that is a "maybe". Or a misdirect here.

Sam and Cas will fight Michael in Dean`s mind. However, there is Dean, as bartender, curmb-stomping someone in a suit which I`m 99 % certain is gonna be Michael. So bascially he`ll scream "get out" in a replay of the Gadreel thing and Michael will once again temporarily leave. And why will Dean be motivated to suddenly fight Michael? Of course because Sam is in danger since it cannot be that he gets motivated by some greater good or to fight for himself, it will be for Sam. 

Yahtzee!

 

45 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh, man. I didn't see that moment and now that you say it, I think you are completely accurate. Even back in Regarding Dean, he couldn't remember his own name but he could shout Sam's name when Sam was  in danger.

Sigh. I 100% think that Dabb only sees Dean as an extension of Sam. I hate it.

It was never only Dabb, but he's taken this aspect of the brothers' relationship to new depths which is why Dean has never truly been allowed to "grow" as a character, IMO.

And I hate it, too. 

But anything more I'd have to say about that would belong in the B vs J thread, so here I'll just say that I'd bet the ranch that Aeryn's scenario is going to turn out to be exactly what's going to happen in ep. 10 because this show has become nothing but 100% predictable in regards to certain things and Dean's part in almost any familial relationship tops that list to this fan, at this point in the series.

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

The only thing I'm looking forward too is the scene Jensen mentioned at the last con where he said that Dean is in a bad spot physically, and Jensen said he made the crew cry.

 This is the most intriguing thing I've heard of also, and it's the biggest reason that I'll be tuning in after the hiatus-because I know that the Michael!Dean that we got in the mid-season finale is going to be gone even faster this time than the first time we saw him.

Dabb isn't fooling anyone regarding that, at this point. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Myrelle

[gonzosgirrl]

Why would a being that can do this allow anyone close enough to him to cuff him? He killed her by thinking about it. JFC. 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

25 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Why would a being that can do this allow anyone close enough to him to cuff him? He killed her by thinking about it. JFC. 

 

I have to go with it being that Michael intended to be captured or Dean is inside fighting him even harder. Otherwise, it's fucking STOOPID.

[SueB]

I think he's trying to woo Jack.  Straight out killing Cas & Sam would make that much harder.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, SueB said:

I think he's trying to woo Jack.  Straight out killing Cas & Sam would make that much harder.

Doesn't explain Kaia-Sue - especially after he learned her spear could injure his vessel.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Doesn't explain Kaia-Sue - especially after he learned her spear could injure his vessel.

I SO! wish that Michael!Dean would kill Kaia-Sue.

[ILoveReading]

I want to know why Michael just doesn't snap the cuffs off.  We've seen that they are useless against arch angel.

Or maybe they're only useless on Dabb's pet arch angels and we know Michael isn't one of those.

[gonzosgirrl]

So now they've spoiled that Kurt Fuller is reprising Zachariah for the 300th.

First, are they going to spoil the entire episode before it aira? I could care less at this point, but there is no avoiding these spoilers online. EW isn't even trying - it's all right there in their lead lines and photos. Asshole.

Secondly, this had better be some kind of fantasy/time-travel/flashback or fever-dream episode, because if Dabb takes away Dean's kill of this mofo, I am going to lose my shit. This crew is determined to undermine or undo every single thing Dean is or does*. I hate them.

 

*unless it involves cowing to Sam or forgiving everybody anything/everything they do.

Edited January 7, 2019 by gonzosgirrl

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Secondly, this had better be some kind of fantasy/time-travel/flashback or fever-dream episode, because if Dabb takes away Dean's kill of this mofo, I am going to lose my shit. This crew is determined to undermine or undo every single thing Dean is or does*. I hate them.

 

Yup.  I still suspect this is going to be some kind of It's a Wonderful Life ep for Sam.  We already know he gets the confrontation with John. 

[Myrelle]

So very, VERY! Unhappy to hear that they are bringing back Zachariah.

They have ruined too much of this show already, and my guess is that they're just going to pretend that Dean simply never killed him-not really, anyway<insert huge eye roll here->same as they did with Naomi.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Doesn't explain Kaia-Sue - especially after he learned her spear could injure his vessel.

No, it doesn’t.  I can’t say why he didn’t finger snap her out of existence.  He DID mention her energy signature was different.  And now, without her spear, I’m not sure he thinks she’s a threat.  

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

No, it doesn’t.  I can’t say why he didn’t finger snap her out of existence.  He DID mention her energy signature was different.  And now, without her spear, I’m not sure he thinks she’s a threat.  

If Michael doesn't immediately eliminate threats that makes him an idiot.  He has access to all Dean's memories and knows what that Jack is  Mary Sue snowflake is loyal and would never change sides, no matter what.  Plus, he has no powers. 

Getting caught to easy, once again and I'm sure the supreme leader's army will easily take out Michael's monsters, its making Michael and his army pretty pathetic.

[SueB]

Arrogance and overconfidence has always been the downfall of the Uber powerful.  

[Aeryn13]

This is neither, though. This is just incompetence. Not to mention he is deadly in every other vessel but in Dean somehow he is the biggest loser to ever lose. Sure, perfect vessel, my ass.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Aeryn13

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, SueB said:

Arrogance and overconfidence has always been the downfall of the Uber powerful.  

I don't disagree with this. It's certainly been Lucifer's downfall time and again, and arrogance has been a character trait all the archangels share. The only acceptable reason (for me) for Michael's capture is that he lets them take him in order to keep them busy with him and away from the fight in KC, believing himself invulnerable, and Dean incapable of fighting. If they do indeed let Dean be a major factor in his own rescue, I could be okay with this premise.

(not holding my breath - blue is not my colour)

[ILoveReading]

24 minutes ago, SueB said:

Arrogance and overconfidence has always been the downfall of the Uber powerful

I don't disagree but they haven't really established Michael as any kind of threat.  His arrogance falls flat.  He was easily dispatched by a teenager with a pointy stick, his hunter traps caught one and a half hunters (Maggie survived, of course), I can't think of anyone his monsters killed, and we know he's literally caught in less than five minutes after taking over Dean again. 

We know that Michael will be gone by the end of this episode so it doesn't seem like it takes much to get him to leave again.

Because we (general we) know that Sam's record must remain impeccable, I don't see Michaels's monster's causing much, if any damage before Chief's army takes them out.

He's not Uber powerful.  He should be because Jensen is trying to play him that way, but he's has zero support form the writing staff.  So its not coming across as overconfidence so much as stupidity. 

[SueB]

31 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I don't disagree but they haven't really established Michael as any kind of threat.  His arrogance falls flat.  He was easily dispatched by a teenager with a pointy stick, his hunter traps caught one and a half hunters (Maggie survived, of course), I can't think of anyone his monsters killed, and we know he's literally caught in less than five minutes after taking over Dean again. 

We know that Michael will be gone by the end of this episode so it doesn't seem like it takes much to get him to leave again.

Because we (general we) know that Sam's record must remain impeccable, I don't see Michaels's monster's causing much, if any damage before Chief's army takes them out.

He's not Uber powerful.  He should be because Jensen is trying to play him that way, but he's has zero support form the writing staff.  So its not coming across as overconfidence so much as stupidity. 

Wounded with a retreat to re-think on the spear is not the same as "dispatched".  

Michael thinks in eons, not weeks or days.  If he is letting them capture him, its part of a different plan I think. Maybe he's probing their strengths and looking for weaknesses again.  Go inside Dean's head is a fairly predictable move.  So... what is it that he wants the boys to see?

In the last episode, he was irritated because they were taking so long -- he just has this all sorted in his head IMO.  I think KC has to be fine because the show goes to great lengths to minimize collateral damage.  

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

Wounded with a retreat to re-think on the spear is not the same as "dispatched"

Whether he was dispatched or retreated doesn't matter, it still doesn't change the fact that she took him out without breaking a sweat, a nail, or getting a hair out of place.  He was taken down so easily. 

 

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

Michael thinks in eons, not weeks or days.

 

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

In the last episode, he was irritated because they were taking so long

These two things are contradictory if Micheal thinks in Eons than 2-3 months (or however much time passed) shouldn't have mattered to Michael.  If he truly does think in eons that amount of time shoudn't have irritated him.  Its just extremely bad writing.

 

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

So... what is it that he wants the boys to see?

I don't think we'll see much.  I think its been pretty much spoiled in the promo.  Under Dabb what you see is what you get. 

 

7 minutes ago, SueB said:

he just has this all sorted in his head IMO

I don't see this.  Michael seems like he has no clue what he's doing.

 

8 minutes ago, SueB said:

I think KC has to be fine because the show goes to great lengths to minimize collateral damage.  

With how little damage Michael has done so far, and how easily I'm sure he'll be dispatched/retreats once again, they need to do something to establish Michael as a credible threat.    Right now, his monsters need to be able to do considerable damage.  Anything less it just shows that Michael's monsters are as big a joke as he is.   But that reflects poorly on Chief.

So it seems Dabb set this storyline up to really fail because theyre is no way to really get it off the ground becasue Dabb won't commit.

[Aeryn13]

I agree. It is one thing to have a powerful villian being taken down by their own overconfidence - it was how the original Star Wars trilogy concluded after all, the Emperor could have mopped the floor with everyone and the movies show it but he was too busy Gloaty McTorturepants. It is however quite another if the supposed powerful villain gloats, just before he slips on a banana peel and falls down, easily overpowered. 

They have made Michael the second in our world. And it is absolutely not helping if that depiction continues.

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Jakes said:

What they did with Gabriel was fine--if its done as well as that then i'm satisfied.

They completely rewrote history to bring Gabriel back. His wings were burned up. That was established canon for angel death, and he was redeemed with a satisfying, if sad death. Making it all just another trick was cheap. So now Zachariah. His wings burned, and his death was a satisfying and defining moment for Dean. I can't see anything fine about disrespecting the history of the show by bringing back yet another dead character. 

[gonzosgirrl]

4 hours ago, SueB said:

Maybe he's probing their strengths and looking for weaknesses again.

Why does he need to know their weaknesses? Dude can kill with a thought.  At least one writer's version of him can. The next has him falling down fighting a tiny teenaged girl. Then he's capturing monsters by the dozens to turn. 

These are two humans and an angel whose powers also change from week to week. There is no logical reason for him not to blink them out of existence. 

[ILoveReading]

I can’t link on my phone but the episode description for ep11 is out. 

Michael Dean is a bait and switch with no follow up. The description spoils it. Dean gets to spend the episode with the ice queen and Donna “bonding” while Nick gets lots of choice and surprise surprise Sam makes an unimaginable choice. 

My guess is he says yes to Michael. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Sigh. I don't  know if I can take Dabb pulling the rug out from under us* again, ending a season or a half season with something exciting for Dean only to snatch it away. It's one thing to make me feel sad. It's a deal-breaker to make me feel stupid, and that's just about where I am. 

 

* us being those Dean/Jensen fans who are of the same mind as me

[catrox14]

I am so angry right now.  I can't find the words to express my utter anger and disappointment.  And NO I don't have misaligned expectations. The showrunners told us it would be longer than expected and it's all complete bullshit. 

[tessathereaper]

6 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I don't disagree but they haven't really established Michael as any kind of threat.  His arrogance falls flat.  He was easily dispatched by a teenager with a pointy stick, his hunter traps caught one and a half hunters (Maggie survived, of course), I can't think of anyone his monsters killed, and we know he's literally caught in less than five minutes after taking over Dean again. 

We know that Michael will be gone by the end of this episode so it doesn't seem like it takes much to get him to leave again.

Because we (general we) know that Sam's record must remain impeccable, I don't see Michaels's monster's causing much, if any damage before Chief's army takes them out.

He's not Uber powerful.  He should be because Jensen is trying to play him that way, but he's has zero support form the writing staff.  So its not coming across as overconfidence so much as stupidity. 

Exactly, for the "arrogance to be their downfall" trope to work, they actually have to have a decent reason to be arrogant, they have to be shown as a genuine threat.  NONE of which Michael has been shown to be.  The previously mentioned Zachariah showed himself to be more of a threat back in Season 4 than Michael has shown himself to be.  It's all been hot air, his threats relatively easily defeated, himself easily defeated and or captured time.