These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[ahrtee]

12 hours ago, Res said:

Looks like it's time to get started on those strongly worded extremely disappointed goodbye letters to TPTB with and extra strong FU very much to Dabb!

Or tweets:

SAVE DEAN WINCHESTER FROM THESE WRITERS

RESCUE JENSEN ACKLES

DEAN WINCHESTER IS HERO NOT SIDEKICK

[Myrelle]

11 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

So many fascinating things happening behind the scenes. Too bad everybody's too afraid to say anything.

I think that this is par for the course BTS of this show, and I think it's been this way since the second half of S5, tbh. It's just appears to be coming to a head now because the insanity in the writers' room can't really be covered up or glossed over anymore(except by those who want/choose to keep their eyes closed to it, I suppose and IMO)-not with all these wild and uneven inconsistencies regarding Dean's storyline that we've been getting from pretty much everyone connected with the show since this summer's Comic Con, anyway-and again, IMO.

And all of this showed up in spades in this season's premiere, too, IMO.

9 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Whoa....what's this now? Do tell!

I saw it posted somewhere within the last year. It reportedly came from either an open con panel or one of  JP's M&Gs(which yes, would make it more rumor than fact, in that case) and it was further reported(amidst much tearing up and sighing within certain segments of the fandom, of course) that he said that Jensen helped him get over it. Sorry that I can't remember where and when it originated from, but as I said, I'm pretty sure it happened(JP purportedly opening up/talking about it, that is)within this last year or so. Maybe someone else has a better memory of it than me.

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I saw it posted somewhere within the last year. It reportedly came from either an open con panel or one of  JP's M&Gs(which yes, would make it more rumor than fact, in that case) and it was further reported(amidst much tearing up and sighing within certain segments of the fandom, of course) that he said that Jensen helped him get over it. Sorry that I can't remember where and when it originated from, but as I said, I'm pretty sure it happened(JP purportedly opening up/talking about it, that is)within this last year or so. Maybe someone else has a better memory of it than me.

I do remember something about this.  I think it was a panel and JP said it was during one of the early seasons when his mental heath wasn't good.  But that that with a grain of salt because I don' remember much more than that.  That might not be accurate. 

I've seen speculation that Kaia is going to be the big bad of the season.   That wouldn't surprise me since Dabb still seems like he cant' get over the fact that the show was picked up.

[catrox14]

8 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

of  JP's M&Gs(which yes, would make it more rumor than fact, in that case) and it was further reported(amidst much tearing up and sighing within certain segments of the fandom, of course) that he said that Jensen helped him get over it.

I recollect seeing discussion about Jared having issues back in s4 or s5. Is that what you're referencing, maybe?

[Myrelle]

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

You know I was thinking that there is a way for Dean to be the hero here. I said after s13 that Dean isn't necessarily AU Michael true vessel but he is OG Michael true vessel. Dean could go to the Cage and say Yes to him and he would be more powerful than AU Michael. Of course, I dont think the show will do that because that would be logical Lol. And they'll probably use the excuse that he was already possessed by an AU version of Michael so his vessel is tainted

 Also, WTF does Dean is immune to evil? That's is spin speak for Dean will not be affected by his possession hence no emotional stuff and no Michael stuff. I mean shit we won't even get Dean being a drooling mess which I'm sure Jensen would have acted the hell out of. Because they already gave that to Gabriel.  And Nick.

I definitely don't want to see Dean depicted as a drooling mess-definitely not with these writers because THAT storyline they would probably give us half a season of. So silver-tinged lining there.

And I posited my desire for your first scenario, too, at one point this summer because Dean's "destiny" in our reality, since S5, was to be The Sword and perfect vessel of CagedMichael, not AUMichael.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I've seen speculation that Kaia is going to be the big bad of the season.   That wouldn't surprise me since Dabb still seems like he cant' get over the fact that the show was picked up.

I legit can see this being the case. I  can see the spin in some of these reviews WRT to the premier and how it was so refreshing to grow the cast. Never mind TPTB own words about allowing other characters room to breathe with Dean gone.

I won't be surprised if they revisit Dean putting the gun in Kaia's face as some kind of motivation for Bad Kaia to go after them .Ithink we will have 4 different SLs this year and I still think Rowena will come back and she'lt be the Queen of Hell.

I also won't be surprised if they have Michael!Dean go after one of the WSaybe even Kaia if he thinks her powers will benefit him.

I could also see them having captured Michael and trying to use his grace to open a portal via Kaia and send h back to the AU...

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I recollect seeing discussion about Jared having issues back in s4 or s5. Is that what you're referencing, maybe?

 

27 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I do remember something about this.  I think it was a panel and JP said it was during one of the early seasons when his mental heath wasn't good.  But that that with a grain of salt because I don' remember much more than that.  That might not be accurate.

Honestly, I don't follow the con stuff as much as I used to, but maybe I read about it on tumblr or saw it in a tweet. I mostly remember just rolling my eyes at the tinhat stuff and it could have been in reference to an earlier time frame, yes-but what struck me about the whole thing was that he said he'd gone to see a lawyer while he was under contract to see if there was any way that he could get out of the contract.

[ILoveReading]

31 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

And I posited my desire for your first scenario, too, at one point this summer because Dean's "destiny" in our reality, since S5, was to be The Sword and perfect vessel of CagedMichael, not AUMichael.

While I would love this, I just dont' see them letting Jensen play two versions of Michael.

I do think Cage Michael will make an appearance, but I think ultimately it will Sam that says yes.

*that is not bitch vs jerk but more meant as bitter speculation.

[Myrelle]

34 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I've seen speculation that Kaia is going to be the big bad of the season.   That wouldn't surprise me since Dabb still seems like he cant' get over the fact that the show was picked up.

This would Suck. Out. Loud., IMO. 

Talk about lack of Menace in your Big Bad; but yup, she's another pet character of Dabb's-so again, no surprise here if they end the Michael storyline prematurely, just so they can replace it with this kind of reconstituted Wayward Dabb reject. 

[catrox14]

30 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

While I would love this, I just dont' see them letting Jensen play two versions of Michael.

I do think Cage Michael will make an appearance, but I think ultimately it will Sam that says yes.

*that is not bitch vs jerk but more meant as bitter speculation.

I don't think Dabb will even give that to Sam especially if Buck Lemming has any say. She'll give it to Nickifer before Sam IMO.  The argument will be, Sam won't ever say yes to possession again! Dean will be too tainted...thus it falls to their pet, Pellegrino.  That's my spec.

[Pondlass1]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

I've seen speculation that Kaia is going to be the big bad of the season.

Oh bloody hell! The actress is so amateurish. 

[BabySpinach]

14 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Oh bloody hell! The actress is so amateurish. 

Not to mention tiny and cute. Her beating up Sam and Dean in the Bad Place was ridiculous enough; I would not be able to take her seriously as a Big Bad. From Lucifer (even as neutered as he eventually became) to a little teenage girl with a spear? Lordy...

Edited October 18, 2018 by BabySpinach

[Myrelle]

So after remembering the Nougat Baby spoilers, I'm going to spec that Dean has to stop thinking about his own "semi-possession"(Again, WTAF?!-everyone else is/gets "possessed", but Dean is "semi-possessed"-what does that even mean?! I'm afraid to even try and guess with these clowns), I'm going to guess that it's because of whatever happens with the cinnamon roll that puts him in a hospital bed-and if so, UGH!-just another character for Dean to have to sublimate himself and his own trauma over again and some more; and just another excuse for yet one more dropped Dean myth-arc storyline. UGH! UGH!! and UGH!!!

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

So after remembering the Nougat Baby spoilers, I'm going to spec that Dean has to stop thinking about his own "semi-possession"(Again, WTAF?!-everyone else is/gets "possessed", but Dean is "semi-possessed"-what does that even mean?! I'm afraid to even try and guess with these clowns), I'm going to guess that it's because of whatever happens with the cinnamon roll that puts him in a hospital bed-and if so, UGH!-just another character for Dean to have to sublimate himself and his own trauma over again and some more; and just another excuse for yet one more dropped Dean myth-arc storyline. UGH! UGH!! and UGH!!!

My theory is that Nougat Baby is dying without this grace so Dean will suggest going into the empty to get it back.  In doing so he will be responsible for accidentally releasing Lucifer.  Then Lucifer will repossess Nick and we'll have a Michael/Lucifer hybrid.

[Res]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Or tweets:

SAVE DEAN WINCHESTER FROM THESE WRITERS

RESCUE JENSEN ACKLES

DEAN WINCHESTER IS HERO NOT SIDEKICK

We should pick one and use it to get it noticed hopefully. So which do you want to use because I can tweet it tonight during the episode or we can try to schedule a campaign or something.

[ahrtee]

13 minutes ago, Res said:

We should pick one and use it to get it noticed hopefully. So which do you want to use because I can tweet it tonight during the episode or we can try to schedule a campaign or something.

Vote/consensus?  And then spread the word (hopefully a campaign that can be picked up and be noticed.)

[gonzosgirrl]

53 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Vote/consensus?  And then spread the word (hopefully a campaign that can be picked up and be noticed.)

I think whatever it is, it has to include the #Supernatural tag or nobody is going to notice. I've long used #DeanDeservesBetter

I don't really think it's wise to include the actors' handles in it. I wouldn't be averse to including @andrewdabb though.

[Res]

32 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think whatever it is, it has to include the #Supernatural tag or nobody is going to notice. I've long used #DeanDeservesBetter

I don't really think it's wise to include the actors' handles in it. I wouldn't be averse to including @andrewdabb though.

If we include the #SPN tag, it goes to the shows ratings. Doesn't it? 

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Res said:

If we include the #SPN tag, it goes to the shows ratings. Doesn't it? 

It does, but I don't think that's a bad thing. And I also think that without a tag that matters, we will basically be talking amongst ourselves, preaching to the choir.

[Res]

26 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It does, but I don't think that's a bad thing. And I also think that without a tag that matters, we will basically be talking amongst ourselves, preaching to the choir.

Ok, but I hate giving ratings to the Sam pimping, Mobby atrocity that is on screen. The second thing I'm wondering is whether we should do this next episode, giving us a week to get the word out and so that TPTB do assume the #DeanDeservesBetterWriting is meant for the Michael/Dean storyline. What do you think?

[ILoveReading]

I wish they'd stop trying to pretend Dean isn't back tonight.

[Lemuria]

6 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Also, WTF does Dean is immune to evil? That's is spin speak for Dean will not be affected by his possession hence no emotional stuff and no Michael stuff. I mean shit we won't even get Dean being a drooling mess which I'm sure Jensen would have acted the hell out of. Because they already gave that to Gabriel.  And Nick.

This is the only thing they've said I'm not unhappy with.  I would be thrilled not to have Dean depressed and moping and all emo again.  I'm tired of that for him.  If Dean was able to resist enough that he discomforted Michael or that he was able to keep himself separate from the archangel, I could probably live with that.

[ahrtee]

31 minutes ago, Res said:

Ok, but I hate giving ratings to the Sam pimping, Mobby atrocity that is on screen. The second thing I'm wondering is whether we should do this next episode, giving us a week to get the word out and so that TPTB do assume the #DeanDeservesBetterWriting is meant for the Michael/Dean storyline. What do you think?

I think we need to get the word out, so next week.  And I want the #DeanDeservesBetterWriting to mean in general, not just the Michael/Dean, since that's already a done deal, but they may (just *may*) be willing to change course for the end of the season.  

 

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It does, but I don't think that's a bad thing. And I also think that without a tag that matters, we will basically be talking amongst ourselves, preaching to the choir.

If we don't include it but get enough people to send the same message (hopefully all at the same time--say, halfway through ep. 3) maybe that'll trend enough to make people wonder (and maybe ask?)  

ETA: Or specify "Dean Winchester" so those who know will understand.

Edited October 18, 2018 by ahrtee

[ILoveReading]

you might be better off doing it this week since we're supposed to get more Michael.  So its better if this ep has higher Social Media ratings.  Next week is a Wayward ep, and if rating are higher the TPTB could interpret it as wanting more wayward.

[Res]

15 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I think we need to get the word out, so next week.  And I want the #DeanDeservesBetterWriting to mean in general, not just the Michael/Dean, since that's already a done deal, but they may (just *may*) be willing to change course for the end of the season.  

 

If we don't include it but get enough people to send the same message (hopefully all at the same time--say, halfway through ep. 3) maybe that'll trend enough to make people wonder (and maybe ask?)  

ETA: Or specify "Dean Winchester" so those who know will understand.

Yes, let's include Winchester in the hashtag. So I guess go ahead and alert who ever you know is willing to do this with us. Do we want to do it all episode with a giant push at the 35 or 45 minute mark? I'll be doing this CST. 

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, Res said:

Yes, let's include Winchester in the hashtag. So I guess go ahead and alert who ever you know is willing to do this with us. Do we want to do it all episode with a giant push at the 35 or 45 minute mark? I'll be doing this CST. 

I'd still say wait till next week so everyone can spread the word (anyone on other groups/Tumblr/wherever people may be angry)? Besides, if this week is as bad as last, there may be more people ready to complain.  Say at the halfway commercial break?  Or at the end?  (Should it all be at the same relative time as opposed to the show time?  I'm in RMT).

[ILoveReading]

It would be a cool storyline if its somehow Dean who stops Michael's plans with the monsters so he pretends to leave Dean so he can get revenge and attempts to take out Dean's family one by one. 

Starting with the AU crew.  They need to go. I don't like them in Dean's home.

[sino8r]

I'm curious as to why you all think Kaia (or whatever her name was) is going to be the next bad guy. I'd rather it be Lucifer for the 4th time rather than that reject spinoff leftover. That would be incredibly stupid even for Supernatural. Annoyance with Dean's angel story and crappy writing aside, Wouldn't most likely be the Empty Keeper or whatever that thing was?

[ahrtee]

4 minutes ago, sino8r said:

I'm curious as to why you all think Kaia (or whatever her name was) is going to be the next bad guy. I'd rather it be Lucifer for the 4th time rather than that reject spinoff leftover. That would be incredibly stupid even for Supernatural. Annoyance with Dean's angel story and crappy writing aside, Wouldn't most likely be the Empty Keeper or whatever that thing was?

TV Line spoiler back in September: https://tvline.com/2018/09/11/greys-anatomy-season-15-meredith-andrew-deluca-romance-spoilers/ that reads:

Kim Rhodes’ Jody Mills will return in the wake of “a mysterious death, when it turns out that she and Sam and Dean are looking for the same person,” co-showrunner Andrew Dabb previews. “That involves her in a case that has pretty big repercussions, Wayward-wise, going forward.” As for the rest of the Wayward Sisters ensemble, “We’re also going to see Donna later this season,” Dabb says. “And our hope is, toward the back half of the season, to see everyone together in a plotline that we think dovetails very nicely with our Supernatural storyline for the season. We’re not, like, taking a detour into Waywardworld. [We’re] taking some of those characters who we love so much, and some of the ideas, and folding them into Sam and Dean’s story.”

This fits having Kaia as the Big Bad and the boys (and WS) hunting her together. 

Also Kaia is a guest star on ep. 3 this season.  And they did leave the "Evil Kaia" plot dangling last time.  

I

[ILoveReading]

The only thing that might prevent the big bad from being Kaia Sue Wayward, is availability.  I'm not sure what they're status is.  Most of them has seemed to moved on.

The girl that plays Kaia was cast in a Netflix series.  I'm not sure when that films or how big her role is.  Kathyrn Newton is in high demand,, and she's also in a Netflix series.  Kat Ramdeen is running for council in Canada.  That leaves Patience who was probably the weakest character of the bunch.   Kim and Briana seem to have some up coming project.  They haven't said what it is but they're hinting at something.  Kim tweeted how there wasn't many PJ parties left (convention activity) and its curious that they haven't been signed for any 2019 cons yet.

[ILoveReading]

Found the picture I was looking for.  Its Dean's messy room that we see (if it isn't' cut) in episode 4.

So is this a sign that Dean isn't really Dean?  Because normally Dean is kind of a neat freak.  His favorite thing about his room is that it was clean.

But the episode is written by Perez, who according to episode 12.15 thinks Dean is a gross slob.

This is why I have so many doubts about how Dabb and co. are going to handle the post possession story, when I shouldn't.

[SueB]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

Found the picture I was looking for.  Its Dean's messy room that we see (if it isn't' cut) in episode 4.

So is this a sign that Dean isn't really Dean?  Because normally Dean is kind of a neat freak.  His favorite thing about his room is that it was clean.

But the episode is written by Perez, who according to episode 12.15 thinks Dean is a gross slob.

This is why I have so many doubts about how Dabb and co. are going to handle the post possession story, when I shouldn't.

But... did you see there' a "Country Living" magazine there?! That alone is a thesis.  Seriously... WTH?  

[AwesomO4000]

48 minutes ago, SueB said:

Seriously... WTH?

Yes, that is somewhat disturbing. Maybe the set decorators got into the 'shrooms again. ; )

And what are the (two different types of) white things on the floor in the back left corner next to the lamp and under the cool old fashioned fan?*** I swear that larger white thing with the cord looks like some kind of old answering machine or something, and the smaller white things look like dishes from a Japanese restaurant. Heh. Seriously what are those things? Oh wait, maybe they are take out food french fry holders (from the 70s)? If so, they are way too clean to be that. Nothing that comes in those doesn't leave grease stains. Ditto the pizza box.

It looks like someone told my Nana (may she rest in peace) to make a room look "messy" and she thought "well I can make it look untidy, but nothing too dirty... we couldn't have that, now could we?" That would explain the Country Living magazine as well. Hee.

*** And it's probably an indication that I watch too much Supernatural that one of my first thoughts was "I wonder if that's a dangerous kind? I wonder if Dean could use it to chop off tentacles or something? It's at least sturdy enough looking to bean a monster in the head..."

[ILoveReading]

Quote

DARE TO DREAM – After a hunt gone wrong leaves Maggie’s (guest star Katherine Evans) whereabouts unknown, Sam (Jared Padalecki) Dean (Jensen Ackles), Mary (guest star Samantha Smith) and Bobby (guest star Jim Beaver) race to find her, but what they find are their own worst nightmares. Darren Grant directed the episode written by Meredith Glynn (#1405). Original airdate 11/8/2018.

Synopsis for episode 5.

I might get excited if I didn't think they were going for the obvious.

Sam- his fear will be about Lucifer.  Probably gets the majority of focus.  Then they can use this as an excuse to bring back Pellegrino.

Bobby- ending up back in apocalypse world.

Mary- they'll try to sell her fear is something happening to Sam and Dean.  (This doesn't work when she shows no interest in her sons when she's around them.

Dean- So obvious I don't even need to write it 

I'd love to be wrong but none of these writers have any imagination.  Why use this opportunity to reveal something new about the characters when you can be lazy and take the easy way out.

[ahrtee]

Brought over from BvJ:

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

  Hide contents

The synopsis for ep 3 says that searching for what happened to Dean they end up on the same case as Jody.  In the promo, Jody asked Dean if it feels like he was stabbed with a meat fork.  He says yes.  So unless she developed some psychic abilities she probably found a body with the same mark.   Which means this isnt' about Dean.   Since Kaia is in this ep Im guessing she has something to do with it. 

...

The whole wayward stuff about how they're stories are going to combine which probably makes Michael about the waywards.  That would be something Dabb would do.

There was an article said that the danger is "after the possession."  Another use of the past tense.

So I think we'll get a handful of flashbacks that show that Michael ran into something he couldn't deal with or body hopped because he found a vessel he likes better than Deans.

 

Horrible thought (and I don't even want to bring it out into the open by mentioning it):  What if Michael moved to Kaia?  Since she's already evil, single-minded and from another AU...

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

Brought over from BvJ:

Horrible thought (and I don't even want to bring it out into the open by mentioning it):  What if Michael moved to Kaia?  Since she's already evil, single-minded and from another AU...

This wouldn't surprise me since Dabb still seems bitter it wasn't' picked up.

[SueB]

8 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Brought over from BvJ:

Horrible thought (and I don't even want to bring it out into the open by mentioning it):  What if Michael moved to Kaia?  Since she's already evil, single-minded and from another AU...

"See: Alfre Woodard, Yadira Guevara-Prip, and Nesta Cooper Join Apple’s Jason Momoa Series" - from TV line

"See" "

From Steven Knight, the sci-fi drama “is set in a future when the human race has lost the sense of sight, and society has had to find new ways to interact, to build, to hunt, to survive. All of that is challenged when a set of twins with sight is born.” Jason Momoa also stars.

On See, Woodard will be playing “Paris, an advisor and priestess,” Guevara-Prip will portray “Bow Lion, a young warrior,” and Cooper has been cast as “Haniwa, a proud and determined young daughter.”

That's a good gig.  Maybe she has time for two major gigs, I don't think so. 

[gonzosgirrl]

14 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean- So obvious I don't even need to write it 

It'll either be losing Sammy or, you know, cats. Outside chance it's Yorkies.

[gonzosgirrl]

Here's what I don't understand. If Michael is supposed to be the big bad of the Season still what possible point is there in him abandoning his perfect vessel. He's clearly super powerful, he subdued and captured scores of monsters to experiment on single-handedly. He killed that lady vampire literally without blinking an eye. Until he lured them with a trap, Dean's family had no clue where he was or what he was doing. So why? He has nothing to gain by infiltrating them, he could kill them all from a distance. It just doesn't make any sense.

[devlin]

3 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Here's what I don't understand. If Michael is supposed to be the big bad of the Season still what possible point is there in him abandoning his perfect vessel. He's clearly super powerful, he subdued and captured scores of monsters to experiment on single-handedly. He killed that lady vampire literally without blinking an eye. Until he lured them with a trap, Dean's family had no clue where he was or what he was doing. So why? He has nothing to gain by infiltrating them, he could kill them all from a distance. It just doesn't make any sense.

Are you expecting a coherent storyline this season?

Edited October 21, 2018 by devlin

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So why? He has nothing to gain by infiltrating them, he could kill them all from a distance. It just doesn't make any sense.

Well, actually Michael does maybe have something to gain by infiltrating them, and that's access to his lance*** which is presumably in the bunker, and which Michael could have found out while possessing Dean. But there might be other things in the bunker as well. The Men of Letters appeared to have done some experimenting of their own - as we saw with the demon curing - so with some imagination (from the writers), Michael might want something in there to further his own experiments.

I have long thought that it was wasted potential that Gadreel never took advantage of taking over Sam to raid the MoL stash. Maybe Michael is smart enough to do so. He would know from Dean that things and information are in there, but maybe not all of the details if Dean didn't go through everything himself.

*** ...though I don't know how useful it would be anymore. Even if it could be fixed, maybe it would only be useful for keeping other angels in line, but then again, that might be enough for this Michael, who seems a bit sadistic.

[Aeryn13]

If Michael wants anything in the bunker, he can just go in and take it. The bunker has ludicrous security, as seen many many times and noone could stop him. Heck, he could pull an Amara and stroll through there when everyone is gone.

I think the reason for Michael just leaving is the writers going "whatever, we will make up some bs later". Highly doubt they have anything figured out or that THEY have an actual plan. For Leader!Sam, Nickifer, Jack and the Waywards, undoubtedly but not for this.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Well, actually Michael does maybe have something to gain by infiltrating them, and that's access to his lance*** which is presumably in the bunker, and which Michael could have found out while possessing Dean. But there might be other things in the bunker as well. The Men of Letters appeared to have done some experimenting of their own - as we saw with the demon curing - so with some imagination (from the writers), Michael might want something in there to further his own experiments.

I have long thought that it was wasted potential that Gadreel never took advantage of taking over Sam to raid the MoL stash. Maybe Michael is smart enough to do so. He would know from Dean that things and information are in there, but maybe not all of the details if Dean didn't go through everything himself.

*** ...though I don't know how useful it would be anymore. Even if it could be fixed, maybe it would only be useful for keeping other angels in line, but then again, that might be enough for this Michael, who seems a bit sadistic.

But they have shown us that Michael is all-powerful. He's the only arch-angel left (unless he knows something about Lucifer that we don't, wink-wink nudge-nudge). He doesn't need anything to keep the few angels that exist in line - the broken lance would only be a trophy. And if he wanted it, why not just kill them all and then walk in and take it, along with anything else he wanted.

[ILoveReading]

If Michael wanted Sam and Co. dead he could have just snapped his fingers.   So if the storyline is part of a long con there has to be something Michael wants.  Like others have pointed out if he truly wants it nothing should be able to stop him from taking it.   The bunker being the safest place is a joke.  

The only reason, IMO, that makes sense for Michael to leave Dean, pretend to leave Dean, or give Dean back temporary control, would be for psychological torture.   Michael would know how strong Dean is and that he would try to stop him of when it came time for Michael to do whatever it it is he's doing so Michael needs to make sure he breaks Dean before he goes for that final step.

This is another way this storyline could end on a positive note for Dean.  He could realize that he's strong then he thought when he doesn't' break.  That Michael didnt' break him when Alastair did.  But this can't be about Michael trying to hurt Sam.   Thais just showing that Dena is only strong when Sam's life is on the line.

The show missed a perfect opportunity to show Dean being thorn in Michael's side.  The writers really need to prioritize.  We did not need five different pep talks with poor Jack and his feelings.  The scene with Jack and his grandparents could have taken place in any episode.

There is so much set up here to actually adress all of Dean's trauma's if the writers care too.

Edited October 21, 2018 by ILoveReading

[SueB]

If Michael's objective is "A Better World", he's going to take  his time to figure out who and how.  WHO will be his adoring worshippers? Because he needs those worshippers, what's the point of ruling a universe without sentient people ... Michael is not Amara. And who will be him 'minions', his army.  MAYBE he thinks that after he's in control of the planet the people will come around - but they NEVER did in the Apocalypse World.  He never accomplished what he wanted.  And he doesn't seem to think any human is going to turn out worthy.  And he's arrogant enough to want honest worshippers, not stepford-bodies who are brainwashed.  Nope, achieving his "Better World" is not straightforward.  He's going to have to either eventually weed out those humans capable of resistance and woo the remaining or pick a different species.  He really doesn't have respect for ANYONE so it's going to be hard for him to remotely sell a 'loving God substititue'.  

I don't know what he's doing but I think he 'left' Dean on purpose.  I just don't know why.  I'm okay with not knowing where the story is going.  I think they've established that Michael has a conundrum to solve without an obvious answer.  

[ILoveReading]

Sound like once again Jensen is using past tense.  that's why I don't believe that michael is still possessing Dean.

[gonzosgirrl]

20 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Sound like once again Jensen is using past tense.  that's why I don't believe that michael is still possessing Dean.

The Jared part of that quote.

Hints of the Boy King in the premiere. All kinds of S5 references with the Nickifer. Almost no chance that Lucifer is really gone, and even if so, there is another archangel to defeat (presumably). Calling it now: Sam will have powers before the season ends.

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The Jared part of that quote.

Hints of the Boy King in the premiere. All kinds of S5 references with the Nickifer. Almost no chance that Lucifer is really gone, and even if so, there is another archangel to defeat (presumably). Calling it now: Sam will have powers before the season ends.

Yup.

[ILoveReading]

29 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Hints of the Boy King in the premiere. All kinds of S5 references with the Nickifer. Almost no chance that Lucifer is really gone, and even if so, there is another archangel to defeat (presumably). Calling it now: Sam will have powers before the season ends.

I agree.  There is a reason all this leader stuff is being done.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Yup.

 

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

I agree.  There is a reason all this leader stuff is being done.

And I think Jared knows it, and has known it since SDCC time.