A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[Free]

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Why is the Evil Queen even here? She'll be on the chopping block soon, just like Jekyll/Hyde were. She's an antagonist just for the sake of having an antagonist.

To try and repeat the 'inner turmoil' like they tried to beat into the ground for Emma.  The problem is that it wasn't done well in either case.  Trying to do a split Regina/EQ along with the Jekyll and Hyde was misguided considering the writers inability to juggle multiple characters/storylines at once.

[Camera One]

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Why is the Evil Queen even here? She'll be on the chopping block soon, just like Jekyll/Hyde were. She's an antagonist just for the sake of having an antagonist.

As a seat warmer while we wait for Jafar?  

The fact that Snow White and Henry are going to school without worrying about the chaos that the Evil Queen might cause shows how much of a dud the threat is.  There is no tension whatsoever.  Viewers shouldn't be thinking "Who cares?"  

What's the point of Jasmine pretending to be a teacher's aide if she's trying to look for Aladdin and/or not be noticed?  I mean, there's pointless and there's *really* pointless.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

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What's the point of Jasmine pretending to be a teacher's aide if she's trying to look for Aladdin and/or not be noticed?  I mean, there's pointless and there's *really* pointless.

I was surprised how easily Jasmine blended in out the get-go. No one did a background check on her before hiring her at a school?

[Free]

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What's the point of Jasmine pretending to be a teacher's aide if she's trying to look for Aladdin and/or not be noticed?  I mean, there's pointless and there's *really* pointless.

It's very pointless, I think this is the writers' attempt at a S1 nod, but it falls flat because it makes no sense to do the dual identity anymore given the current context of the show.

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As a seat warmer while we wait for Jafar?  

The fact that Snow White and Henry are going to school without worrying about the chaos that the Evil Queen might cause shows how much of a dud the threat is.  There is no tension whatsoever.  Viewers shouldn't be thinking "Who cares?"  

It doesn't help that we're waiting for the EQ to actually do something and no, Emma possibly 'dying' isn't fooling anyone.

[Camera One]

8 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I was surprised how easily Jasmine blended in out the get-go. No one did a background check on her before hiring her at a school?

I think the same agency that screens midwives also does the school system.

[Camera One]

You are on a mission where you must not let anyone know your identity, waiting until the cloak of night to meet your accomplice.  

How do you reply when someone asks you about your past?

A) "My past is not very interesting.  Not compared to yours."

B) "My past is filled with sadness.  I'd rather not talk about it."

C) "Many years ago, the kingdom I come from came under attack by a powerful menace.  The only one in any position who could save us was the princess, but she never fully embraced who she was, what a hero she could be.  And as a result, our kingdom was lost.  And I know such intimate details because hint wink hint wink..."

Edited October 18, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

To me, "Strange Case" fell right back into the pattern of "A Bitter Draught".  In the flashback, Regina/Rumple prey on a literary character who agrees to a plan, which completely backfires on them and leads to the death of a hapless innocent bystander.  They get sent to the Land of Untold Stories by Rumple.  By the end of the present-day, they're dead and another literary work is dust.  

[Camera One]

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of What's The Theme of This Season?

Well, the theme is getting IMPALED/STABBED.

In episode 1, Emma finds out she'll get impaled/stabbed!

In episode 2, The Count of Monte Cristo gets impaled/stabbed!  

In episode 3, Cinderella gets impaled/stabbed!  

In episode 4, Jekyll and Hyde get impaled/stabbed!

Tune in for another inspirational fairy tale next week where someone gets impaled/stabbed.

[InsertWordHere]

Looks like Hook started a trend!

[Camera One]

I haven't watched all the Deleted Scenes from Season 5, and stumbled upon one with Emma and Henry where Henry apologized for going behind Emma's back to Cruella.  

Even though I don't think this scene was written that well, it did show the Writers did seem to have a scene to wrap up that whole Henry/Cruella subplot (even though it ended up deleted), and for once, Henry apologized for something he did.  Maybe they had to cut it because Emma had the line, "We're family.  We can't have secrets.  We have to share", and basically Season 6 is everyone in the family lying to each other because they need to learn this lesson again.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I was pinning a lot of hopes on "Street Rats" hoping that it would turn this season around with a compelling backstory for Saviors and an intriguing new mystery involving Aladdin and Jasmine.  But nope to either of those.  What's there to look forward to now? 

[Curio]

57 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I was pinning a lot of hopes on "Street Rats" hoping that it would turn this season around with a compelling backstory for Saviors and an intriguing new mystery involving Aladdin and Jasmine.  But nope to either of those.  What's there to look forward to now? 

 

It's okay, there's still the secret about who was involved with Charming's father's death! Hook. And there's still the suspense about whether or not Emma will die! She won't. At least, not for long. Oh, how about what's going to happen to the Evil Queen and the lesson Regina will learn? That's the major question they're hanging the entire 22-episode season on! They will reabsorb into one again. What about Belle and Rumple's relationship drama? It's pretty exciting that Belle is finally standing up for herself! Until she inevitably gets back together with Rumple for the sake of the baby. Who's under the hood?! Does anyone really care at this point if we all know Emma won't die anyways?

This season had so much potential going for it, and it's like they decided to choose the most repetitive and predictable routes possible.

[InsertWordHere]

My two favorite couples on the show are currently lying to each other. Maybe Snow will join in on the secret keeping (if she could keep a secret) soon so it's even on Snowing's side. So much for the year of Snowing, not that I ever believed it would really happen. Snow can't even remember that David kept his poisoning a secret and that she lied to him way back in season one about not loving him and again in season two when she didn't tell him about the infertility potion (not that I blame her for that one really).

I really am starting to believe there's something to the "memory curses have messed with their brains" theory. Unfortunately, that doesn't explain Hook and Emma. 

[Rumsy4]

She also lied over going after Medusa. Killing Cora, and asking Regina to kill her. David lied about going after the hallucinating root thing in the Rapunzel episode. They've all lied and/or kept secrets from each other.

I guess the writers had Snow say that preposterous line to fuel Snowing drama over the coin. It's terrible writing. 

[KingOfHearts]

We're five episodes in, and there's still very little main tension. The cloaked figure is pretty moot considering: Emma and Henry are the only ones freaking out about it, the audience knows Emma isn't going to die, and it doesn't make much of a difference who the figure is. I can't tell you how little I care about this dilemma. The writers just drew it out of a hat for this season's angst. I thought Jekyll/Hyde had something going on with LoUS, but they're dead and that land doesn't matter any more. Then Aladdin showed up, but saving Jasmine's kingdom is no high priority. Maybe EQ is supposed to be what's gluing everything together, but all she's doing is bringing up existing issues, killing red shirts, and going on spa dates with Zelena. Regina isn't even directly dealing with her. 

Everything in this season is pointless. S5 had too much tension, and now S6 has too little. The lies being sprinkled around don't count. I don't give a flip about who killed Charming's father or when Hook will tell Emma he has the shears.

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It's okay, there's still the secret about who was involved with Charming's father's death! Hook. And there's still the suspense about whether or not Emma will die! She won't. At least, not for long. Oh, how about what's going to happen to the Evil Queen and the lesson Regina will learn? That's the major question they're hanging the entire 22-episode season on! They will reabsorb into one again. What about Belle and Rumple's relationship drama? It's pretty exciting that Belle is finally standing up for herself! Until she inevitably gets back together with Rumple for the sake of the baby. Who's under the hood?! Does anyone really care at this point if we all know Emma won't die anyways?

This season's setup only works if the writers totally play with our expectations. Like, if instead of reabsorbing, Regina dies and EQ lives, or if Charming's dad faked his own death instead of some random murder, or the Savior vision is entirely not what it seems, etc. So far everything's been anticlimactic and predictable.

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What's there to look forward to now? 

I wish I could say the Spoilers thread was exciting.

Edited October 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

The best you can say about S5 and S6, then, is...at least neither of them are 4B.  ^_^ 

(Admittedly, though, there is some stuff in S6 that is giving me some painful reminders of 4B.)

Edited October 24, 2016 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

It's starting to feel like the writers intend a total reset at the end of each arc, where neither they nor the characters remember or consider what happened before. For one thing, just look at the threads they've had going on:

3B -- Zelena is so jealous of Regina's great life that she carries out a grand scheme to turn back time and get that life for herself
4 -- Regina's life is so sad because villains don't get happy endings, so everyone busts themselves and even takes great risks to find the Author and rewrite Regina's story so she can get a happy ending. It ends with Emma sacrificing herself to keep Regina from having to take on the Darkness.
5A -- As a reward for her heroic act to save everyone, Emma the hero gets psychological tortured, controlled, asked to make further sacrifices, and criticized for the way she's handling things, and then ends up having to kill the man she loves to save the day.
5B -- Regina gets reunited with her dead parents and reconciled with them and her sister, but her boyfriend dies, so she's not allowed a happy ending, and to get rid of the villain part of herself that's robbing her of her chance at a happy ending, she takes the Jekyll juice.
6 -- Emma learns that Saviors are doomed and don't get happy endings.

So, if villains don't get happy endings, heroes' lives are misery, and Saviors are doomed, then who does get to be happy? And no matter how much they say that Regina's happiness isn't about a man, every time the question of her lack of a happy ending comes up, it's always about her losing her boyfriend. Meanwhile, no one seems to notice how much suffering is caused by being a hero. Now we're finding out that the Savior is doomed, but there's less rallying to support Emma in that than there was to support Regina rewriting the book.

Meanwhile, the characters, as usual, aren't allowed to act like they've been through the things they've just been through. Emma has just learned that there is an afterlife, and you get stuck in a kind of purgatory if you have unfinished business. She learns she's fated to die, and so she puts her life on hold rather than making sure she doesn't have unfinished business. Hook got given a surprise second chance at life, and that hasn't changed his approach to life at all (unless we learn that's why he kept the shears, that he doesn't want Emma giving up). If he'd had a raging case of PTSD after all the death and torture, I could see Emma keeping the secret from him so as not to give him more to struggle with, but he's actually been pretty zen. The man she loved died and came back to life miraculously, and she doesn't seem to care much whether or not she spends time with him.
 

[KAOS Agent]

I don't know that Emma's secret keeping was really that bad in terms of how Hook is handling returning to life. He came back to life two days before Emma learned she was about to die. I know they pay very little attention to the tight timelines on this show, but that really isn't enough time for her to gauge how Hook's dealing and also just dumping that information on him such a short time after he returned would be hard. So he missed out on heaven to come back to Emma and she's going to die in a couple of weeks. What a happy life Hook just returned to. 

[Shanna Marie]

11 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

I don't know that Emma's secret keeping was really that bad in terms of how Hook is handling returning to life. He came back to life two days before Emma learned she was about to die. I know they pay very little attention to the tight timelines on this show, but that really isn't enough time for her to gauge how Hook's dealing and also just dumping that information on him such a short time after he returned would be hard.

But the problem is that she didn't say that was a reason. She talked vaguely about not wanting to rob him of his happy ending, but the fact that he just came back to life hasn't come up. You'd think that would be something the therapist might have mentioned. Has the fact that Hook was dead a few days ago even come up at all this season? He hasn't made a wisecrack about having already died, Belle wasn't surprised to see him alive when he'd been dead at the time she went into the sleeping curse, Emma hasn't mentioned that as a reason to keep him in the dark or to want him to move in, David didn't consider that in talking about whether or not Emma should have him move in, no one's been concerned about how he might be coping. It's like it never happened, and you'd think dying and being sent back to life weeks later by a god would change something and affect people. It should affect their relationship. It should affect their outlook on life. Him having just been dead would actually have been a good reason for her to keep the news of her impending death quiet until she learned more about the situation, but she didn't list that as a reason.

[TheGreenKnight]

15 hours ago, Curio said:

This season had so much potential going for it, and it's like they decided to choose the most repetitive and predictable routes possible.

This season had potential? With the premise setup at the end of 5, I was already expecting another dud like season 2. Honestly, this year's been better than I thought so far just for the fact that I didn't hate the first 4 episodes and TEQ grew on me. Not to say that it won't collapse in 6B.... lol

[Curio]

16 minutes ago, TheGreenKnight said:

This season had potential?

I mean, compared to other seasons, this was the least excited I've ever been for a new season to start because of how much I disliked the Season 5 finale and we all know how the Evil Queen plot will be resolved. But the summer spoilers that spilled about Saviors being explored more, the Count of Monte Cristo, and Captain Nemo (that's not a spoiler anymore because of the promo) were very promising, but it's all amounted to very little substance. I should have known better and lowered my expectations yet again. 

[maryle]

The perception of any arc is really subjective but 5 episode in and I really jotted after last episode is the repetitive of all the storyline. Davidl to Snow, Hook and Emma both lied, Rumbelle is on a break and soon to reconcile, the Regina cannot be happy because of her evil side....

It is getting boring and my love for CS is not enough. I can just watch some clip.

What is worst for me is contrary to some the EQ lost is charm. In fact, I probably like Regina better now.

[KingOfHearts]

Every arc since S4, I've heard people say, "Wow, they're really running out of ideas" or "they're scraping the bottom of the barrel". This is the first season where I actually believe them. Aladdin really feels like the writers' last trump card. It doesn't really fit in with the LoUS concept without A&E gutting it some. I think you could do that with pretty much any franchise. Any hero from any Disney movie could be a "Savior", and any character could run away to the LoUS for whatever reason. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Free]

21 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Every arc since S4, I've heard people say, "Wow, they're really running out of ideas" or "they're scraping the bottom of the barrel". This is the first season where I actually believe them. Aladdin really feels like the writers' last trump card. It doesn't really fit in with the LoUS concept without A&E gutting it some. I think you could do that with pretty much any franchise. Any hero from any Disney movie could be a "Savior", and any character could run away to the LoUS for whatever reason. 

They have been running out of ideas for a while now, it's just more and more apparent.  The Jekyll/Hyde stuff lasting only a few episodes indicates that they don't have enough material to last half an arc hence them throwing their ideas all at once and giving up the split arcs season format.

[Camera One]

It seems like they are planning multiple flashbacks involving Aladdin and Jasmine (showing how Jasmine got to the Land of Untold Stories, how Aladdin ended up in the middle of the desert in the 6A premiere scene, leading to Aladdin using the Shears).  But "Street Rats" removed a lot of the intrigue for those missing pieces.  First of all, they seemed too quick with reuniting Jasmine and Aladdin in the present-day.  Without amnesia, wouldn't they just fill each other in on what happened to them?  I'm surprised they didn't keep them apart longer like they did Elsa and Anna, to created more suspense.  It may have been more emotionally affecting to see Aladdin using the Shears on himself instead of just telling us in dialogue.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Camera One

[Mari]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

 Without amnesia, wouldn't they just fill each other in on what happened to them?  I'm surprised they didn't keep them apart longer like they did Elsa and Anna, to created more suspense. 

Well, you're forgetting this season's gripping theme:  Secrets.  Secrets and lies.  

Just like in real life, the theme everyone will follow for the year is announced, and the characters find ways to make sure they fulfill it.  :)

[Camera One]

Oh I can just imagine it.

HENRY: So Aladdin, you talked to Jasmine like we told you to?

ALADDIN: Yes.  

HENRY: So how did she react to learning you weren't the Savior anymore?

ALADDIN: Well... I didn't exactly...  Can you help me?  I aspire to have a stable relationship like yours and Violet.

[Free]

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

It seems like they are planning multiple flashbacks involving Aladdin and Jasmine (showing how Jasmine got to the Land of Untold Stories, how Aladdin ended up in the middle of the desert in the 6A premiere scene, leading to Aladdin using the Shears).  But "Street Rats" removed a lot of the intrigue for those missing pieces.  First of all, they seemed too quick with reuniting Jasmine and Aladdin in the present-day.  Without amnesia, wouldn't they just fill each other in on what happened to them?  I'm surprised they didn't keep them apart longer like they did Elsa and Anna, to created more suspense.  It may have been more emotionally affecting to see Aladdin using the Shears on himself instead of just telling us in dialogue.

OuaT seems to be allergic to suspense, especially long term with the way things have been going.

[Curio]

9 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Every arc since S4, I've heard people say, "Wow, they're really running out of ideas" or "they're scraping the bottom of the barrel". This is the first season where I actually believe them.

 

The sad thing is there's still so much potential for an awesome show here, but with A&E strictly sticking to their storytelling format and wanting to end the show the way they planned it years ago, we'll never get that awesome show. They refuse to let go of flashbacks (even though Lost was smart enough to change that formula after a while), and they refuse to let the characters change too much. A&E probably have a vision in their heads of how they want the show to end, and if the characters aren't exactly in those places by the time the show is done, they'll be unsatisfied. It's probably why the show's timeline crawls at a snail's pace because they have such a specific timeline they're following and are unwilling to change what they planned based on the natural way television changes over time. For example, let's say their perfect finale is Emma's wedding to Hook. To them, it doesn't matter if the show they've presented on screen has developed to the point where that scene could have happened already, they need to constantly have characters backtracking and unlearning lessons they learned in previous seasons just to make sure Emma's emotional state is where they planned it should be by the finale.

If A&E were willing to let go of their perfect finale and organically went with the flow of what has been shown on screen, this show should have evolved into an adventure/romance/fantasy show by now. OUAT could easily go on for a few more years if they followed a format where Emma is the main character (Sorry, you've been demoted, Regina.) and the leader of Team Storybrooke who travels the realms with Hook, Snow, Charming, Henry, Regina, and Belle as they travel to a new world every week to fight villains and save innocent people. Grumpy and the dwarves could be in charge of the "Emergency Line" in Storybrooke, and whenever there's a crisis in a different realm, Grumpy would come crashing into the scene to inform Emma that Princess Daisy has sent out a distress call and needs Emma & Co. to help save her kingdom. Cue Emma, Hook, and the gang hopping aboard the realm-hopping Jolly Roger (because the gang was smart and used the realm-hopping magic that helped Jekyll's dirigible cross realms and gave that same magic to the Jolly) and they sail off to the Enchanted Forest for an episode. Sometimes, the case is easy to solve and the gang can return home to Storybrooke just in time for dinner and Netflix, and sometimes the case might take up several episodes. I honestly have no clue how the show hasn't evolved into this style of storytelling by now. Based on how easy it is to cross realms and Team Hero's experience in dealing with traveling to new realms, it seems like the next swashbuckling and fun logical step for this show to take. I think the show wanted to save money by having the fairy tale characters come to Storybrooke, but that's only fun when we get to see our main characters enjoying Storybrooke's amenities. When Emma only mentions eating pizza or Chinese with Hook in front of a fireplace but we never actually get to see it on screen, that means Storybrooke is useless and we might as well have a little fun by traveling to a new land every week.

[TheGreenKnight]

Well, we did spend a large portion of last season in Camelot and the Underworld. No offense, but that kind of show sounds a lot worse than the one we have, although I agree about them pushing back Emma's development to save the wedding for the end. It would've been nice if they had got married in the series premiere. Plus, I have a feeling the advertisement for a wedding would draw some interest (and ratings). And it would've been funny if TEQ+ had interrupted Emma's wedding just like Regina did Snow's in the Pilot.

Edited October 25, 2016 by TheGreenKnight

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think I'd want to see the "jump to a new realm each week" show. I just want them to really mine the potential in the stories they've got. As it is, they seem to think that one line of dialogue covers an issue and showing a character counts as exploring that character's story. There was already a lot they could have done in Storybrooke with all the fairy tale characters there and having both their real memories and their fake Storybrooke identities. Then they added some new people with the second curse who didn't have Storybrooke identities and memory downloads. Surely there were some bad guys among all that -- they're saying that Aladdin was there all along and working as a thief, with no one having the slightest idea he was there, and then what about Regina's villain friends we saw in Season 1, what happened to them in the curse? What about the natural enemies being thrown into the town together, and instead of living on opposite ends of the forest, they were stuck living next door to each other in a small town? Now they've got all the Untold Stories people who are unfamiliar with the modern world. How are they interacting with the environment? There's so much potential for fun and adventure just in the situation, with the opportunity for stuff like the Three Musketeers challenging people to duels on Main Street.

And that's just dealing with the setting. They really could have done a whole arc about duality with Jekyll and Hyde, since we also have Regina and the Evil Queen, Snow and Mary Margaret, Zelena and the Wicked Witch, and Killian Jones and Captain Hook. Instead, they wrapped up that story in just a few episodes, with no real depth, without getting into parallels with other characters, and without explaining most of Hyde's actions. Or there was the Count of Monte Cristo, with the theme of revenge, when we also have Regina/the Evil Queen and Hook, as well as Hyde, having spent a long time seeking revenge for a lost love. But they didn't really get into that theme or do a real story around him.

It's just like with Camelot, where they used the name and some of the background without actually developing it, then they didn't resolve most of it, though at least they didn't bring it up and dismiss it in one episode. 

[Mathius]

Exactly.  They are constantly looking to create new stories, conflicts and situations through exterior forces, characters or properties, and completely ignore all the stories, conflicts and situations they could create through what they already have on the board.  It's been that way since Season 2.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Mathius

[KingOfHearts]

And when the story does slow down, we get Zelena and EQ chatting about banging Rumple or Mary Margaret failing as a teacher... TS, TW. Apparently it's boring to see the Evil Queen go to the DMV, but not to have a spa day.

Edited October 25, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Mathius]

See, this is why I will defend 3A to the death.  I know there are people who complain about the lack of Neverland worldbuilding or using stuff from the Peter Pan story, and while more of that definitely would have been nice in flashbacks (esp. when it comes to Bae and his time as a Lost Boy), the main point of the arc was the core characters and continuing to develop issues that they already had, issues Season 2 had progressively neglected to explore.  That was where most of the conflicts came from, and the Peter Pan characters (Pan, Tink, the Lost Boys, the Darlings) were used to help develop those conflicts and characters rather than overshadow them.  If the following arcs had kept that up, the show would be better off for it.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Mathius

[daxx]

I agree with you @Mathius 3A is my favorite both at the time and in hindsight it becomes even more favored.

[Shanna Marie]

48 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Apparently it's boring to see the Evil Queen go to the DMV, but not to have a spa day.

OMG, I didn't realize I needed this until now, but I need this. That might be the one time I'd cheer for her. Who wouldn't want to see the Evil Queen taking on a bureaucrat who secretly loves thwarting people by mindlessly insisting on following procedure? Take a number and wait to be called, her number is 478 and they're now serving number 27, then when she finally gets to the window, they tell her she needs a different form and she has to start all over again. Fireballs and heart ripping ensue.

The spa day was the kind of scene that's supposed to be a no-no because there was zero conflict. I guess there might have been some underlying tension because Zelena's still kind of torn, but otherwise it was essentially the equivalent of that Netflix and Chinese food night at Emma's house that they keep saying no one wants to see, only without the fun fish-out-of-water element of seeing Hook react to Star Wars.

[KingOfHearts]

2 hours ago, Mathius said:

See, this is why I will defend 3A to the death.  I know there are people who complain about the lack of Neverland worldbuilding or using stuff from the Peter Pan story, and while more of that definitely would have been nice in flashbacks (esp. when it comes to Bae and his time as a Lost Boy), the main point of the arc was the core characters and continuing to develop issues that they already had, issues Season 2 had progressively neglected to explore.  That was where most of the conflicts came from, and the Peter Pan characters (Pan, Tink, the Lost Boys, the Darlings) were used to help develop those conflicts and characters rather than overshadow them.  If the following arcs had kept that up, the show would be better off for it.

3A is the poster child for slow pacing that actually fuels character development. Even though the status quo didn't change until the last act, the characters had moments of evolution. Hook kissing Emma. Emma admitting to Neal she wanted him dead. Snow deciding she wants another baby. None of it was earth shattering to the plot right away, but the Nevengers came out different from how they came in. They had a better understanding of each other after being pushed together for a while. Most importantly, everyone got to contribute to the mission. It wasn't the CS show or the Regina show, etc. It was the ensemble setup it was supposed to be.

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

The spa day was the kind of scene that's supposed to be a no-no because there was zero conflict. I guess there might have been some underlying tension because Zelena's still kind of torn, but otherwise it was essentially the equivalent of that Netflix and Chinese food night at Emma's house that they keep saying no one wants to see, only without the fun fish-out-of-water element of seeing Hook react to Star Wars.

It's not a no-no because the fabulous Evil Queen and the Wicked Zelena is in it.  The villains having a regular conversation is enjoyable to write, but the heroes having a regular conversation is not. As you said in another post, we heard the exact same dialogue that the Evil Queen already gave to Zelena before.  Yet we had to hear it again, because they didn't use Zelena last episode.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Camera One

[Mathius]

Quote

3A is the poster child for slow pacing that actually fuels character development. Even though the status quo didn't change until the last act, the characters had moments of evolution. Hook kissing Emma. Emma admitting to Neal she wanted him dead. Snow deciding she wants another baby. None of it was earth shattering to the plot right away, but the Nevengers came out different from how they came in. They had a better understanding of each other after being pushed together for a while. Most importantly, everyone got to contribute to the mission. It wasn't the CS show or the Regina show, etc. It was the ensemble setup it was supposed to be.

Season 1, 2A, and 3A all did the ensemble setup well.  5B tried and I liked it for that, but it wasn't quite the same, especially when so much time was given to the Mills sisters and almost no time was given to characters like Robin (the one who died at the end of it!)  To say nothing of the S5 finale....

Every other arc has been like this:

2B - The Regina & Rumple Show
3B - The Regina vs. Zelena Show
4A - The Frozen Show guest-starring the OUAT cast
4B - The All Villains, All the Time Show
5A - The Captain Swan in Camelot Show

What are we on now?  The Evil Queen Show, featuring a new co-star from the Land of Untold Stories each week?

Edited October 25, 2016 by Mathius

[Curio]

13 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't think I'd want to see the "jump to a new realm each week" show. 

 

But isn't that essentially what the flashbacks act as right now anyways? This show has been the "jump to a new realm each week" show since its inception, but now instead of focusing on the main characters in the flashbacks, we usually have to sit through flashbacks of a bunch of side characters we don't know or care about as much. In Season 6 alone, we've jumped to a new realm in each episode. Episode 1 jumped to Agrabah briefly, Episode 2 jumped to the Count of Monte Cristo's realm, Episode 3 jumped to Cinderella's realm, Episode 4 jumped to Jekyll's realm, Episode 5 jumped to Agrabah again, and Episode 6 will jump to Captain Nemo's realm. The only difference between what I suggested and what the show presents to us now is the timeline in which the realm jumping happens.

Personally, if we're going to jump to a new realm every week anyways, I'd prefer to see our main characters in the present timeline dealing with the new characters and new settings. For example, the Jekyll/Hyde flashback in Episode 4 bored me to tears because—even though sparkly Rumple is entertaining—I wasn't very interested in whatever happened to side-characters Jekyll and Hyde in the past, and their flashback didn't even help fill in the holes as to why Hyde wanted to rule Storybrooke or why he brought over the Land of Untold Stories with him. We could have had a similar story happening in real-time if we allowed our current Storybrooke crew to realm-hop to solve crimes. That way, present-day David, Emma, and Hook could have been assigned to investigate the murder of Mary in Not-Actually-England Realm while Snow and Jasmine kept their lame teacher plot in Storybrooke. Having David, Emma, and Hook intertwined in that Jekyll/Hyde story would have made it a bit more interesting, but when A&E & Co. present it as a flashback they're limited as to how many main characters can randomly crash into the scene, which is why we're usually stuck with random Rumple or Evil Queen cameos all the time. Having flashbacks also take away from the main story's pacing because we're constantly cutting away from the present Storybrooke timeline to show the audience a random event that happened "many years ago."

Allowing the characters to quickly realm-hop to solve a case per episode would also help fix Team Hero's tendency to look like idiots running around with their heads cut off in Storybrooke. Instead of being inactive and waiting for the villain to do something to them in Storybrooke, Team Hero would look more proactive and heroic because they'd be off helping people in other realms. Instead of Snow teaching terribly for an entire episode (and acting more like Mary Margaret), she could have been doing something much more Snow White-esque by offering to go help her friend Ashley find her sister in the Enchanted Forest for an episode. Ashley could have came to Snow White in Episode 3, told her that she received a message from her sister Clorinda in the Enchanted Forest, and Ashley and Snow (we could even add in Emma for a mother/daughter case-solving episode) could have gone off on an adventure for an episode where they helped resolve the Clorinda/Lady Tremaine feud. By the time Snow gets back to Storybrooke at the end of the episode, she'd meet back up with her substitute teacher Jasmine and ask how things went that day.

The current structure of the show wouldn't change drastically if we allowed certain characters to realm jump each week. We'd still have fun Storybrooke scenes, but the flashbacks would just be replaced with current realm-hopping scenes. It wouldn't have to be the case where every single main character is forced to realm-hop to a new land, which may be why some people didn't enjoy the Camelot or Underworld arcs as much; it would be more of an episode-by-episode basis thing. (One episode might be that Ashley/Snow/Emma adventure I described earlier, or it might be Emma/David/Hook going to Misthaven, or it might be Regina/Zelena/Henry traveling to Oz, or it might be Belle/Hook traveling to Dunbroch, or it might be the entire main cast going to Arendelle, etc.) 

For example, let's say there's a plot in Storybrooke about Red and Dorothy throwing a bachelorette party for their upcoming wedding. The A-Plot of the episode would focus on Red, Dorothy, Belle, Mulan, Snow, and Emma's fun night out at the Rabbit Hole as we do a bunch of character building scenes, mish-mashing of fairy tales with the real world (the male strippers are actually a comedy group called the Three Pigs), and fun conversations. While Emma is getting ready and putting her makeup on at her house, she gets a call about Miss Muffet who has gone missing in the Enchanted Forest and Savior Emma has been requested to investigate it. Hook sees that Emma is contemplating giving up her fun night in Storybrooke with the girls to investigate the kidnapping, but he promises Emma that he and David can look into the mystery and that she deserves a night off. This leads us into the B-Plot of the episode, which is Hook and David realm-jumping to the Enchanted Forest to try and find out who kidnapped Miss Muffet. Back in Storybrooke, the C-Plot revolves around Zelena and Regina feeling left out because they weren't invited to the bachelorette party, so they decide to have a sister party of their own. (Who knows, maybe they'd even have a character-building conversation where they realize how some people will never forgive them for how villainous they were and they just have to live with that.) Meanwhile, back in the A-Plot, Snow and Emma take a quick break from taking shots and want to check in on their loved ones and see how the Miss Muffet case is doing. They pull out their magic communication mirror that has better service than at&t and can communicate with people across realms. They try calling up Hook and David, but the men are a bit preoccupied because they've been locked in a dungeon by Mr. Spyder (with spider tattoo and all). Hook doesn't want to worry Emma so he awkwardly pulls out his pocket mirror and pretends like everything is fine (even though his foot is spiderwebbed to the ground) and reassures her they have a great lead on who took Miss Muffet. He promises that he and David should be back within a few hours and to stop worrying about them and enjoy her night off. When David and Hook finally solve the case, arrest Mr. Spyder in the Enchanted Forest, and make it back to Storybrooke, they're totally exhausted, pop open a few beers, and crash on the couch...only to have Emma and Snow come stumbling in a bit tipsy and wanting to chat about their nights. And then somewhere in there can be a D-Plot about Rumple helping Henry with his homework assignment because it deals with the History of Dark Magic while at the same time they struggle to watch all the babies that have been ditched.

There are many opinions on this board, but it seems like the one thing most of us agree on is how trite and retcon-riddled the flashbacks have become, and that's partially why Season 6 feels so disjointed at the moment. The flashbacks in each episode aren't telling one large cohesive story anymore, they're just random snippets into random characters' lives that don't add up to one logical narrative. Allowing the characters to realm-hop more frequently fixes the issue of needing flashbacks every episode and would help the overall pacing of the show. If the writers really felt the need to show a flashback occasionally, they could still throw in a couple flashbacks per season, but I think we need to move past the point of splitting nearly every single episode into one-half being present day and one-half being flashback.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

I've been wanting quick trips to EF (or other realms) for a long time. It's pretty convenient that not one person in all of Storybrooke wants to visit their homeland. Wouldn't Emma want to check up on Elsa? Zelena mentioned they would visit Roland. When's that going to happen? I loved the realm hopping in the S5 finale. If the multiverse is so accessible now,  we need more of that.

Now I want to see Henry, Charming and Hook going on a camping trip in EF, or Snow having coffee with Ruby in the Emerald City.

[Camera One]

There's nothing more dangerous than an Untold Story.  But didn't Jasmine also come from the Land of Untold Stories?  What's so "dangerous"?  She had no problem telling her story to pretty much everybody.  

[Camera One]

I also find it interesting that they had a subplot with Snow/Jasmine in "A Strange Case", but did they even interact one-on-one in "Street Rat"?  On a show, screentime should be precious and there should be a reason for each subplot and scene.  What was the point of building up a relationship between Snow and Jasmine, when none of it was of any consequence in the following episode?  Jasmine had a heart-to-heart with Henry instead, who she met in this episode.  

[Shanna Marie]

They really didn't do much thinking of development of the Untold Stories concept. Part of the problem is that it seems to be something of an offshoot of the Author mythology, which was half-baked and incoherent, with the announcement that some of our known storytellers were Authors, and yet the stories they told were inconsistent with the stories we see. If the Grimms and Disney were Authors, and they supposedly had magic pens, ink, and books that allowed them to record even events they didn't witness, why were they wrong about the story of Snow White (that happened long after they wrote it)? Now we've got the new stash of storybooks that were hidden in the New York Public Library, for some reason.

Then there's the problem that the "Untold Stories" actually aren't. If it's a famous work of literature, it's not an Untold Story. And if it's in one of the Author books, it's not an Untold Story. What they've shown us are interrupted stories, for the most part, it's not entirely clear if the Author books tell the whole story that hasn't played out yet or just tell up to the point they hit pause.

There's actually room for something interesting to be done with Untold Stories if we're talking about stories that weren't in Henry's original book. As I recall, he didn't know Gold's storybook identity during season one, which suggests that Rumpelstiltskin wasn't in the book. Emma's life after birth wasn't in the book. It doesn't seem like Hook's life was in the book. There doesn't seem to have been anything about the Savior or the Dark One in the book. That wouldn't have allowed them a separate world, but if Henry had found a new book with info that wasn't in his previous one, that would have given them a chance to delve into their own mythology if someone did something to try to force those stories to play out the way they were supposed to.

Or if they were determined to do the separate world, they needed to do things like Cinderella's stepsister -- the characters from the familiar tales who were on the periphery of the story and whose fates remain unknown during the main characters' happy endings. That would have required a lot more creativity to think of stories for these secondary characters, but imagine the fun they could have had with that. Everyone is the main character of their own story, and we only see the stories of some of these people, but do all these other people have lives of their own, and what happens to them when the main story's over but their story isn't?  But that would require acknowledging characters other than the mains.

[Rumsy4]

Rumple was in Henry's book--he just didn't make the connection that he was Mr. Gold. 

Agree that the concept of the author is very poorly fleshed out in the Show.

[Shanna Marie]

6 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Rumple was in Henry's book--he just didn't make the connection that he was Mr. Gold. 

Oh, okay. I guess the appearance is really different, as is the mannerism, and given how unlike the actual people those illustrations looked, I can see not making the connection. It's obvious to us, but we're seeing live action, not those drawings.

[Camera One]

A lot of stories are conveniently missing when they need to be.  I mean, was Jekyll and Hyde's story missing from Henry's Book too?  What about Cinderella's Nice Stepsister's Story (they could have figured out Lady Tremaine went along for the ride too well before it was revealed).  The book didn't make an appearance this week either for Aladdin and Jasmine.  Is Jasmine going to elaborate on who ended up coming from the Land of Untold Stories?  What the Land of Untold Stories actually is?  How to get there?   Did Jasmine manage to escape Henry's census (long forgotten?).  

[KAOS Agent]

Clorinda's story was in the book. That's how Emma & Co. knew where to look for Ashley. They looked up Clorinda's story and found out about the footman, then traced him to the pumpkin farm. It's the Once Upon a Time Book of Plot Convenience. Only stories the plot wants Team Hero to know are in there.

[Camera One]

3 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Clorinda's story was in the book. That's how Emma & Co. knew where to look for Ashley. They looked up Clorinda's story and found out about the footman, then traced him to the pumpkin farm. It's the Once Upon a Time Book of Plot Convenience. Only stories the plot wants Team Hero to know are in there.

Yes, I remember that's the last episode where the Book was carried around.  Why did it take them so long to realize Lady Tremaine was out there and a threat if it was in the book all along?

[KAOS Agent]

That would have been Henry's job and he was probably busy playing Xbox or making out with Violet instead. From my understanding, Emma walked out of Archie's office and Thomas said Ashley & gun were missing. Emma then went looking for Ashley using magic to stop her from whatever. Ashley said she was trying to protect her sister and ran off and Emma was immediately accosted by the Evil Queen and transported elsewhere. Without magic, they turned to the book using a longer method than the shoe tracking. I think they just started with the quickest way which was magic rather than wading through a huge book and reading a story.