A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[Camera One]

he called Hook a filthy pirate and set a trap for him during the spell. We don't know if what he said during the spell was something he really felt that was brought out by the spell or if the spell just made him say nasty things. It's hard to tell based on the way everyone else reacted because it was so inconsistent.

 

That was the problem I had with that episode.  The setup was actually good and ominous, but the effects of the Curse was wildly inconsistent.  What I expected was what we saw with Anna with Shattered Sight and the hurtful things she said to Elsa.  They were painful truths which Anna kept deep inside, maybe even hidden from herself.  We saw very little of that, since most of it was played for laughs (Charming and Snow; Granny and the Dwarves; Snow and Regina).  I think the only other "truth" we saw was what Kristoff said to Anna.  

 

What Henry said to Hook was completely random.  Henry escaping from Hook actually had zero point.  They were writing scenes which were completely inconsequential.  I know a lot of people hate Henry, but I think he could be a worthwhile part of the show if he wasn't used as a prop for Regina, and for pointless stuff that leads nowhere like sweeping the floor at Gold's shop.  How can the writers write dead-end arcs with no consequences for any of the characters?  It almost suggests that there was no plan.  Was the entire point of Henry working for Rumple, to have Rumple point out to Regina in the season finale that he knew Henry was up to something, so he could ask her about Operation Mongoose, so he and the Queens of Darkness could pursue that in 4B?  Who plans an arc that concludes like that?   Nothing has been said about Henry's supposed animosity towards Hook since "Shattered Sight".  It could have been an interesting plotline, but it was essentially written to give Hook (and Henry) something to do during the Curse.  Likewise, Henry working at the Shop could have forced both Rumple and Henry to confront the death of Bae/Neal, but again, that was addressed in a single surface scene which was actually deleted.  

Edited February 8, 2015 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Henry had no role in 4A other than to prop Regina. That it was completely out of character didn't matter. I actually liked the brief mentions of Henry/Hook interactions because they were more in character for Henry and showed him being less of the truest stupid. Henry and Hook seemed to have a nice relationship while Henry was without his memories, but I could understand him having some reservations once he remembered who Hook was and his previous actions. Henry wouldn't even have been aware of what Hook did in Neverland, so it makes sense for him to be a bit wary. However, he was completely fine Marian dying so that Regina and Robin could get it on. So Henry is perhaps rightly concerned about Hook, but is totally cool with an innocent woman dying so that Regina can get with Robin. Seriously? I guess as long as Regina is happy he doesn't care that other people would suffer. Who cares that Roland loses his mother? 

[YaddaYadda]

Henry is the Truest Hypocrite.  When he talks to Regina about Emma, he calls her Emma.  When he talks to Emma about Regina, he calls her my mom.  I'm going to skip over  the whole Robin/Marian issue with Regina because he has absolutely no business putting his nose in that and in things he doesn't understand.  

 

He is entitled to his opinion in terms of whether he likes the guys his mothers are dating and Hook has gone above and beyond and I'm guessing a boy his age would have wanted to see his bio parents back together on some level, but Emma always gets the short end of the stick with him.  He tells Regina that he wished he hadn't found Emma at the end of 311 when Pan's curse is about to wash over them and in 322, Emma is all about how Henry wasn't bringing her to SB to break a curse, he was bringing her home.  This whole thing makes my head spin.

 

I have zero objectivity when it comes to Henry.  I wish he would go away and let the adults deal with the adult problems.  

[KingOfHearts]

I don't understand why Ingrid even needed the Shattered Sight spell in the first place. If she could freeze an entire kingdom with a thought, couldn't she just shatter them all like she did to Helga? I find it strange that her main scheme had nothing to do with her ice powers. I know they were trying to mirror (wow that pun) the Snow Queen fairy tale, but the SS curse just felt so unnecessary. Even the fact there were absolutely no consequences to it and there were only giggles just makes it seem so superficial. It really should have lasted more than one episode.

Edited February 9, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

Poor Ingrid died for pretty much no reason. It's yet another failure in this show's payoffs. I knew that the Shattered Sight spell was going to be played for laughs, but killing off the villain for casting a spell that was a split between soap opera cat fight and The Three Stooges was really lame. The fact that it was wildly inconsistent among the characters made it worse. Why didn't anyone try to focus on what could break the spell rather than how to stop Ingrid? They're lucky Anna showed up when she did because there was zero plan about what to do about it all. And once Ingrid decided she was wrong, why did she have to die? Why not have her open her ice wall around the town and chase everyone out? There's no magic outside of Storybrooke, so the curse would have broken. Problem solved. No need for the very messed up Ingrid, who was not a psychopathic murderer, to lose her chance at a happy ending.  

Edited February 9, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[YaddaYadda]

Or she could have just returned to Arendelle with her nieces since they were okay with her.

[Camera One]

As usual, if not for random blind luck (we're talking about EXTREMELY good luck, with Anna stumbling her way to the very secret Bat Cave with no instructions whatsoever), everyone would have died.  As per usual, the heroes had zero plan.  They arguably made it worse by letting Regina out.  They got the ribbons off, but still couldn't kill Ingrid anyway.  And this was BEFORE Ingrid supposedly gave them back their old memories with those stones.  Did Ingrid say the stones will ONLY have their "good" memories with Ingrid?  Even if that were the case, unless Ingrid also erased Emma and Elsa's other memories about how the Snow Queen condemned their various family members to death, exactly how would she win over them to become her sisters?  Are we supposed to explain the whole thing away with Ingrid being crazy?  

 

And let's not forget how Ingrid knew Rumple might kill her precious Emma (since he tried once already), but she said nothing before her grand sacrifice.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Camera One

[FabulousTater]

I have zero objectivity when it comes to Henry.  I wish he would go away and let the adults deal with the adult problems.

I hate Henry. He's my second most hated character on this show, second only to Woegina herself. I wish -- ooh, how I wish. -- they would both just die. They can jump into Regina's mercedes, drive over the cliff of the Storybrooke canyon and die in a fiery explosion when the car smashes into the bottom. *Crash! WHOOSH! Death.* Their deaths would be the greatest moment in the show's history. That's my happy ending.

Edited February 9, 2015 by FabulousTater

[KAOS Agent]

Sadly, they will never kill off Henry or Regina, but I'm all for them having all of their scenes together. It makes it so much easier to just zip through them courtesy of the marvelous fast forward. That said, Henry & Regina going out Thelma and Louise style would be most excellent. I'd even take it as a Rumpelstilskin fantasy dream sequence. Remember when he used to dream about killing Henry? I miss that. Rumpel and I were so on the same page there.

[FabulousTater]

Sadly, they will never kill off Henry or Regina [...]

I know, but dammit, I can dream!

 

That said, Henry & Regina going out Thelma and Louise style would be most excellent. I'd even take it as a Rumpelstilskin fantasy dream sequence. Remember when he used to dream about killing Henry? I miss that. Rumpel and I were so on the same page there.

Heh, Word. Rumpel totally had the right idea. I have never admired Rumpel more than when he was trying to kill Henry. The man was doing a public service. I like to pretend that's what really happened to Henry at the end of season 2 -- dead because Rumpel turned him into a garden gnome and smashed him to bits! And the show universe was a better place...

 

Somewhere out there is an alternate universe where that's what actually happened on the show and Regina died too. I want to visit that universe...I bet it's a wonderful place.

[Mitch]

Edited to note...this is in response to the "two sides of the same coin," question up thread which I thought I had quoted by I see I did not!

 

 

Simple,  Emma (though no fault of their own before the Charming crew get all upset...) was abandoned by her parents and bounced from house to house not having a family. Regina had her parents but her mother was evil incarnate and her father was a spineless wimp. Both had not great childhoods. Emma had her boyfriend dump her and leave her to prison, Regina had hers killed before her very eyes. Both had their trust and love taken away from them. Both of them are stubborn and willful and respond to situations with sarcasm to cover up that they really are kinda freaked out by their life. Both of them have a hard time showing their true feelings and being affectionate.  Emma briefly dabbled in crime but chose the right path and turned her life around /Regina chose the wrong path and became the Evil Queen. 

Edited February 10, 2015 by Mitch

[Mitch]

I almost wish Mayor Mills was simply a cursed personality for this reason. But since there's nothing different between EF and SB Regina, besides an Our World 101 download, she has no excuse. There's no struggling with the fact she's actually a mass-murderer. She's still the same person! It was another hole the writers dug themselves into.

 

Could I see Mayor Mills as redeemable? Yes. Could she love Henry? Maybe. Could she maybe even befriend Emma? Perhaps. Ugh! A cursed Regina finding out about her true past then struggling with it would have been sooo much better than her knowing all along and relishing in it. Emma defending her would have made more sense, her problems with people not accepting her would have made for sense, her relationship with Henry would have made more sense, and her redemption would have been so much more believable.

They should have had her get her memories back late Season One, then have her have to cope with it behind the scenes. Self-awareness, people! It bothers me how easily fixable this show could have been. If they wanted her to look like the Evilest Thing to Ever Evil in S1, they shouldn't have started a quick redemption in S2. It's called long-term planning.

 

I would have loved to have seen this and yes, it would have made her redemption that much more believable. Parrilla would have killed the scene when Regina Mills remembers she is actually the Evil Queen and all of the horrible things she did. After getting her memories back it would have been more important then ever for Regina to stop Emma from breaking the curse and everyone remembering, and would have made us kind of root for Regina stopping it. There was enough angst between Emma and Regina over Henry, and their whole alpha chick thing they had going..to give enough story up to the point of Regina remembering.

 

And wouldnt it have been just like Rumpel to work it in the curse without her knowlege that Regina too would loose her memories also.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I would have loved to have seen this and yes, it would have made her redemption that much more believable. Parrilla would have killed the scene when Regina Mills remembers she is actually the Evil Queen and all of the horrible things she did.

I liked the issues Regina Mills would have dealt with. Her feelings about Henry and her insecurities feeling much more genuine. Scenes like looking at the storybook to see what Henry saw her as or her nightmare with the apple tree being heavier character moments. Her "single mom" persona holding out better.

 

Her redemption could be helped tremendously if she was able to say, "I choose to be Regina Mills", but because of that lack of emotional barrier, Regina Mills and the Evil Queen have no real difference. I love both personas, but the show gives little to believe they're completely separate other than lip service.

Edited February 10, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[LizaD]

 

two sides of the same coin; Both had not great childhoods.

There better damn well be more than 2 sides to that coin then. More like a million sides of the same coin.  All those things listed could be applied to practically every single character on the show. Red, Cora, Neal, Zelena, Rump, Snow, Charming, Hook, Elsa, Ingrid, Pinocchio, Grace/Paige, Wendy, Cinderella, Roland etc. had crappy childhoods and/or lives, along with parental issues out the wazoo. If we knew about Pan's, Belle's, Aurora's, Mulan's, Philip's, Will's etc. childhoods dollars to donuts they would have a crappy one too. Red ate her lover. Hook watched Milah get killed. Rump thought Belle was killed and was betrayed by Cora. Jefferson lost his wife. Neal lost Emma cause he's a dumbass and Pinocchio told him to. Grumpy lost Nova. Mulan got dumped although the dumper, Aurora, didn't even realize she was dumping someone! Hook, Mulan, Rump, Elsa, Ingrid, Jefferson, Will all have a hard time showing their true feelings and being affectionate. Hook, Rump, Will, Jefferson, Whale, Neal, Red etc. are stubbon, willful and respond with sarcasm. And everyone of those characters have dabbled in crime of some sort and either chose the right or wrong path.

 

If anything I think Emma and Rump are a lot closer to fitting "two sides of the same coin." If the writers could pull their heads out of Woegina's ass they could see what they actually put on tv vs their delusional world of what they think they put on tv. Or maybe it's because no one is clamoring for RumSwan and so they don't have to pander to that nonexistent crew. That leaves them free to indulge in their Woegina wet dreams.

Edited February 11, 2015 by LizaD

[kpw801]

I hate Henry. He's my second most hated character on this show, second only to Woegina herself. I wish -- ooh, how I wish. -- they would both just die. They can jump into Regina's mercedes, drive over the cliff of the Storybrooke canyon and die in a fiery explosion when the car smashes into the bottom. *Crash! WHOOSH! Death.* Their deaths would be the greatest moment in the show's history. That's my happy ending.

YOU. CAN'T. HATE. HENRY!!!  Henry is the reason for the show!!  Yes he is a little badly written, but hang in there I think Henry is about to become very interesting and the undoing will be magical.  Yes.  I think Henry will become magical and he will vacillate between good and evil.  That is really going to be interesting.  As the grandson of the dark one, the adopted son of the evil queen and the son of the savior, there is no way he is not magical.  As a matter of fact, watch - Snow will probably manifest magic too.  Just watch and see!

[FabulousTater]

YOU. CAN'T. HATE. HENRY!!!  Henry is the reason for the show!!  Yes he is a little badly written, but hang in there I think Henry is about to become very interesting and the undoing will be magical.  Yes.  I think Henry will become magical and he will vacillate between good and evil.  That is really going to be interesting.  As the grandson of the dark one, the adopted son of the evil queen and the son of the savior, there is no way he is not magical.  As a matter of fact, watch - Snow will probably manifest magic too.  Just watch and see!

YES. I. DAMN. WELL. CAN!!!!!

 

I HATE YOU HENRY, YOU OBNOXIOUS LITTLE SHIT! DIE, DIE, DIE, DIE!

WORST CHARACTER PLOT DEVICE EVER! 

 

:-D

 

Henry is not the reason for the show. That's like saying the apple from the sleeping curse is the reason for this show. He was a plot device used to get Emma to Storybrooke. That's all. HENRY IS A PLOT DEVICE, and a very bad one at that. The writers could've just as easily had Emma chasing a bail jumper and ending up in Storybrooke and still have the same story. She could've True Love's kiss broken the Curse with either of her parents there in town. That may have been more interesting and at the very least we would've been saved epic loads of aggravation due entirely to the existence of the world's most annoying talking plot device to have ever infested a television show, f---ing Henry.

 

The plot device, Henry, is Rumpel's grandson but Rumpel was cursed to be the Dark One AFTER Baelfire was born (when Bae was 14 years old!). Rumpel gets his magic from the Dark One's curse. IT IS KNOWN. Unless the plot device (Henry) curses himself with the dagger -- and it could happen because he takes after his sperm donor and is dumber than a box of hair -- there's no logical reason that Henry would inherit any Dark One magic from Rumpel (magic which again is derived from a curse that Rumpel was inflicted with AFTER his son was born and was already 14 years old).

 

The only thing I would ever be hanging in for as it concerns the plot device (Henry) and the only way he will ever become interesting is with his epic and permanent death and I would celebrate finally being rid of  him. Party at The Tater Cults Clubhouse!

Edited February 11, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Camera One]

Even if he was a plot device, Henry was the first person to break through Emma's armor and the only person who could have gotten Emma to stay, so to me, he was the integral core of Season 1 and an important motivator for Emma's tranformation.  The writers could have fleshed the character out but they did not, but I didn't find him a problem until they used him as a prop for Regina in Season 2.  I still enjoy his scenes with Emma, though I really dislike watching him with Regina.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Camera One

[FabulousTater]

The writers could have fleshed the character out but they did not, but I didn't find him a problem until they used him as a prop for Regina in Season 2.

IMO they didn't flesh him out because he was conceived as a plot device and the point of the plot device was to get Emma to town and to stick around. The writers could've come up with anything else but they didn't. They went with the plot device labeled "Henry" (because it's these writer and this show, i.e., they are idiots). IMO the character was never fleshed out because you don't flesh out plot devices or props. Once the purpose of the plot device was achieved, instead of kiling him off (as they should have) he was repurposed for a different character, Regina. But, yet again, once the plot device's purpose of getting Regina to be a good woobie villain is achieved, the plot device is irrelevant (and once again he should just be killed off or shipped to a year around boarding school in Greenland never to be heard from again).

 

Henry is a roving plot device that the writers don't have the balls to kill off and it allows the writers to be lazy, because the continued existence of Henry The Plot Device gives the writers an easy out to make Regina -- who is an OTR unrepentant mass murderer -- appear as if she has a shred of humanity by anointing her with the unearned label of "good mother". [For me] The show would be a bajillion times better without Henry.

Edited February 11, 2015 by FabulousTater

[KAOS Agent]

We've discussed how the overreliance on magic and silly items to solve the unsolvable is one of the major downfalls on this show. The last thing we need is a magical Henry. Beyond the fact that the Truest Stupid should never have any kind of power, it would be a bad idea to bring in yet another magic user in general. This show is so much better when the characters use their brains and skills to solve things. The Season 3 finale was very nice because other than a magical makeover, it largely hinged on Hook & Emma working to fix things themselves without magical interference.

 

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of Henry, but I think it would help a lot if they would age Henry to Jared's age and have him act like it. The almost fifteen year old actor playing a twelve year old who acts like an eight year old does not work. At all. They also need to stop with Henry's creepy involvement in his mothers' love lives. The Walsh booty call was gross and the break up basket might have been cute if he was seven, but it was just weird for a teenager. He needs to be SORAS'd as soon as possible. And given this show's random magic, it would be relatively easy to do. Just have Henry get hit with a rapid aging spell. Maybe the spell could render him mute as well.

[Camera One]

It's no secret that I'm not a fan of Henry, but I think it would help a lot if they would age Henry to Jared's age and have him act like it.

 

Agreed.  There are plenty of shows have viable teenage characters.  He had ample issues he could be dealing with, from definite mixed feelings about Regina, getting used to having a family and learning about his father in S2, to dealing with being kidnapped and typical teenage moodiness in S3, to grieving for his father and trying to connect with his grandfather in 4A (if they insisted on him working at Gold's shop).  Many of these could avoid Regina or magic.  

 

 

 

They also need to stop with Henry's creepy involvement in his mothers' love lives. The Walsh booty call was gross and the break up basket might have been cute if he was seven, but it was just weird for a teenager.

 

Which shows, none of the stuff they give him, is about him as a character.  He was basically the sounding board for Emma or Regina depending on which character is alone and has no one else to talk to.  Which results in incredibly awkward and weird age-inappropriate scenes.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Camera One

[The Cake is a Pie]

Season 1 Henry, who called Regina the Evil Queen to her face and openly despised her, was fun. Then he did the "but she's my moooooommmmmm!" about turn and he was instantly hateable.

How long before he gets shipped off to college outside of Storybrooke and they never mention him again?

[YaddaYadda]

It's no secret that I despise Henry as well.  It's like they have him say the most ridiculous, crappy stuff about the heroes and the villains and how they should behave themselves and he is so wise (hmm, no he's not, he's annoying).  

 

It's like they want Henry to say these things because he is a "kid" and think the audience at large will be more accepting.  Regina farted out light magic after Henry gave her that pep talk, so thanks, but no thanks.  I will not talk about the heart of the Truest Stupid either.  I'm not even sure how that one happened.

[Amerilla]

When a show is all about PLOT, every character is a "plot device." I think it's more in-your-face with Henry because, in a cast of adults, you need a reason to have a child in a scene/story, but the fact is, every single character on the show is now chronically underdeveloped, every character that isn't Emma/Rumpel/Regina is a sounding board for the now puddle-deep emotional monologues of Emma/Rumpel/Regina, and every character can switch from "I hate you/I love you/I'm a hero/I'm a villain/" at the drop of a poorly-CGI'ed magical hat.  

Edited February 11, 2015 by Amerilla

[YaddaYadda]

They should go the soap route with Henry.  They're never there.  You know they exist and you don't care about them.  They just pop up every now and then, say one line and go back into the broom closet until they're needed a year from that day or so.

[Curio]

They should go the soap route with Henry. They're never there. You know they exist and you don't care about them. They just pop up every now and then, say one line and go back into the broom closet until they're needed a year from that day or so.

 

You don't even have to look at soaps, just look at what Parks & Recreation did this season with Ben and Leslie's triplets. Most people consider that a well-written show, and even their writers were like, "Yeah, kids suck. We'll give them kids, but you won't ever see them on screen." I think we've seen them once so far this season. Sure, they're mentioned, but it's always in passing. Once needs to go ahead and send Henry to a magical boarding school or something and only bring him in as a special guest star once in a while.

 

The sad thing is they can't even have Henry go off and hang with his friends in Offscreenville because he doesn't have friends his age in Storybrooke. Because of that, the writers wrote him into a corner and are forced to have him hang out with the adults all the time. If they just introduced a couple of kids Henry's age, it'd be very realistic for a boy his age to spend most of his time with them. 

[Mari]

And, as usual, the writers not only don't seem to see he's a problem, they're also evidently blind to solutions that would fix the stuff they have mentioned, at least in passing.

This is a fantasy show. They don't even have to boarding school him. They could easily magic their way out of this proble. With the right spell or curse, you could make him disappear for a lengthy amount of time, and reappear aged up, or even recast.

Zap him. Have no one notice for a while he was gone, as part of the spell. Then, have them either quest to get him back, or discover him by accident when defeating the villain of the season. He's now someone else or a lot older, and the next story arc is trying to figure out what happened.

If you don't want to drag it out that long, just have have him pick up the wrong thing in the crypt or the shop, and in a single episode you have an age appropriate Henry.

[kpw801]

YES. I. DAMN. WELL. CAN!!!!!

 

I HATE YOU HENRY, YOU OBNOXIOUS LITTLE SHIT! DIE, DIE, DIE, DIE!

WORST CHARACTER PLOT DEVICE EVER! 

 

:-D

 

Henry is not the reason for the show. That's like saying the apple from the sleeping curse is the reason for this show. He was a plot device used to get Emma to Storybrooke. That's all. HENRY IS A PLOT DEVICE, and a very bad one at that. The writers could've just as easily had Emma chasing a bail jumper and ending up in Storybrooke and still have the same story. She could've True Love's kiss broken the Curse with either of her parents there in town. That may have been more interesting and at the very least we would've been saved epic loads of aggravation due entirely to the existence of the world's most annoying talking plot device to have ever infested a television show, f---ing Henry.

 

The plot device, Henry, is Rumpel's grandson but Rumpel was cursed to be the Dark One AFTER Baelfire was born (when Bae was 14 years old!). Rumpel gets his magic from the Dark One's curse. IT IS KNOWN. Unless the plot device (Henry) curses himself with the dagger -- and it could happen because he takes after his sperm donor and is dumber than a box of hair -- there's no logical reason that Henry would inherit any Dark One magic from Rumpel (magic which again is derived from a curse that Rumpel was inflicted with AFTER his son was born and was already 14 years old).

 

The only thing I would ever be hanging in for as it concerns the plot device (Henry) and the only way he will ever become interesting is with his epic and permanent death and I would celebrate finally being rid of  him. Party at The Tater Cults Clubhouse!

Wow.  That was passionate.  Okay then.  You can not like Henry. 

[YaddaYadda]

What worries me when it comes to the whole Henry thing is that they built half a season around finding him.  And now they are building Operation Idiot in Charge around him and all the things he found appalling in season 1, he's okay with now.

 

I said it before.  Henry is truly Regina's son, the whole Nature vs Nurture thing, Nurture won out.  Aside from the whole Heart of the Trust Stupid, he's got nothing from the Charmings side.  And he also takes after Grandpa Rumple when it comes to manipulation which is not a good thing.

 

Henry needs a spanking then be grounded for life.

[Dani-Ellie]

And now they are building Operation Idiot in Charge around him and all the things he found appalling in season 1, he's okay with now.

 

I like Henry, but I do not like season 4 Henry. At all. I have zero idea what they are doing with him beyond putting him in scenes with Regina because (presumably) Disney wanted Regina nowhere near Frozen. However, in so doing, they're utterly destroying what made Henry the miniature badass he was in seasons 1 and 2-ish.

 

Because season 1 Henry would look at season 4 Henry and be completely convinced that Regina had cast some kind of spell on him.

[FurryFury]

You don't even have to look at soaps, just look at what Parks & Recreation did this season with Ben and Leslie's triplets. Most people consider that a well-written show, and even their writers were like, "Yeah, kids suck. We'll give them kids, but you won't ever see them on screen." I think we've seen them once so far this season. Sure, they're mentioned, but it's always in passing. Once needs to go ahead and send Henry to a magical boarding school or something and only bring him in as a special guest star once in a while.

 

P&R actually managed to avoid plenty of relationship-related clichés by simple virtue of being a workplace comedy. All members of main cast are now married or in relationships, many of them for multiple seasons, and there have been zero break-up make-up stuff except for Chris and Ann, which didn't feel very soapy anyway. Romance has never really been a big priority for the show, friendships were always given more time and focus (which is great). Once is a soap, romance is always more important in this type of shows, especially a few seasons down the line when the novelty wears off and the writers desperately mine for ideas, choosing the most obvious options.

[Mari]

What worries me when it comes to the whole Henry thing is that they built half a season around finding him. And now they are building Operation Idiot in Charge around him and all the things he found appalling in season 1, he's okay with now..

Oh yeah, I can't say that I enjoyed Henry's scenes where he was falling for Pan's schemes and handing over his heart. But, I would be okay with a season long story arc where he basically disappears with only the very occasional clue that it's on purpose,while the story centers around figuring out what the latest villain is up to. I would especially be okay with it if it meant we had a magically aged Henry or a different cast Henry who was whatever age the writers want Henry to be.

And if newly different Henry managed to have more in common with season one Henry at the same time when he reappears, I would truly appreciate it.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Mari

[Mitch]

Aside from the whole Heart of the Trust Stupid, he's got nothing from the Charmings side.

 

That stupid is EXACTLEY what he got from the Charmings. Not to mention preachy and self-righteous and inept at coming up with plans to beat the bad guys. Henry is the combination of the worst parts of his entire family, from the above mentioned Charmings to Regina when she is in whine mode. I liked him in the Oz arc as he wasnt in it much..just walking around like a sullen teenager uprooted from home and dumped in this small town.

 

I would love if he would trip into a vortex and come out of one recast.

[LizaD]

Not counting S1, this show is character driven, not plot driven. It's just written so crappily. I feel like when people throw out "plot-driven" it's meant as an insult to the show or an explanation of why this show sucks so bad, but plot-driven shows could be good and character driven shows could be terrible. The 2 things aren't mutually exclusive either. You could have a plot-driven show with well written characters and vice versa. This show has neither post-S1 but it is still character driven like most soap operas are. And as with soap operas it is repetitive and tedious because the characters can't change or revert constantly. This is what happens when you have no plot but need to stretch the show out for years.

 

S1 had a plot, how the curse came about and breaking it. Each episode with it's "procedural" of the week is plot driven and everything built up to the reveal of why the curse was cast and breaking it. I struggle to think what the plot for each subsequent seasons were. This is why the complaints about world building are so numerous. This is why there is no logic, no rules, and no linear build to the end of the plot. All the fairybacks and centrics are character-driven with zero plot. It's not good stuff mind you but it's for the character. Those million fairybacks of Snow vs Woegina? What plot did they have? None. It was all to showcase Snow and Woegina's relationship and them as individuals. The plot on this show literally doesn't matter.

[Shanna Marie]

I think a lot of the problem with the current incarnation of Henry came from the retconning that seems to have been done in response to complaints from the adoption community from season one. Instead of pointing out that they weren't saying anything about adoption, that Regina would be a terrible mother whether she adopted or gave birth because she's so selfish and puts her own wants above anyone else's needs, and then writing a positive adoptive family (the abandoned baby taken in by the kindly woodsman or miller is a common enough fairy tale trope), they decided that Regina really had loved Henry all along and then changed Henry's attitudes. So now he has the loving, perfect relationship with the woman who emotionally abused him, gaslit him, hurt him just to score points against Emma, poisoned him, and tried to hold him prisoner. There was no wary rebuilding of their relationship. They forgot about him having known all along that she was the Evil Queen. He doesn't care what she did to the rest of his family. And now the kid who loves all the fairy tales is wishing Maid Marian would die so Robin Hood can be with Regina. He is literally not the same character he was in season one. It's funny how black and white his morality is when he's dealing with the Charming side of the family -- heroes don't kill people! -- but how he's able to brush past a lot of awful stuff and be okay with it when he's dealing with Regina.

 

As for the Regina vs. the Evil Queen duality, it's funny how she's the only character that applies to, and she didn't even get a cursed identity. There's no sense that Snow was that secret-telling life ruiner, so Mary Margaret isn't at all responsible. In fact, Regina was tormenting Mary Margaret for what Snow did even when Mary Margaret was under the curse and had no memory of having done anything to Regina. Regina even reveled in that when she was framing Snow for murder. And, oops, that was Regina, not the Evil Queen, so that kills that idea right there.

[KingOfHearts]

 

As for the Regina vs. the Evil Queen duality, it's funny how she's the only character that applies to, and she didn't even get a cursed identity.

It's funny how David, Mary Margaret, and Ruby were all thrown off the table, save for a couple dialog references. ("I recall some Ruby outfits that are seared into my brain", "It's a kind of berry... I used to work at a pet shelter"). Isn't there some emotional development to be fostered with the cursed personalities? Couldn't we have seen Ruby and Snow talking about Whale or Charming apologizing to Abigail? I think you file this under "Reasons Season 2 Was a Letdown".

Edited February 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

You know which Henry I'm down with?

 

The one from early 3B.  The one who did not have his memories (before he tried to run away that is).  Off in a corner, on his phone or games in the background, ignoring what was going on around him or not really giving a crap while people talked.  You know, typical tween, typical teenager who could give a fuck about anything.

[KingOfHearts]

 

 

You know which Henry I'm down with?

The one from early 3B.  The one who did not have his memories (before he tried to run away that is).  Off in a corner, on his phone or games in the background, ignoring what was going on around him or not really giving a crap while people talked.  You know, typical tween, typical teenager who could give a fuck about anything.

That Henry was supposed to be bratty. There was no golden child mentality. He could act like the annoying teenager he is without an excuse. He was called out on this behavior, and that's why I found it tolerable. Plus, Regina was forced to build actual trust with him. They could have done so much for him if they didn't give his memories back.

 

I believe you could say the same for Regina. When she's not whitewashed or treated as a goddess on earth, she can be entertaining to watch. I've never been fond of Henry, but both he and his mom need to stop being held in such high esteem for every little word they say. He takes after her more than Emma, that's for sure.

Edited February 12, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

When I submitted the poll for the week "What was your favorite episode of 4A," I didn't realize how difficult it would be to narrow my decision down to one episode. It's not that I had trouble choosing between multiple favorites, but I legitimately had a hard time picking one episode that I enjoyed the whole way through. There were plenty of moments or scenes I enjoyed in 4A, but honestly, I can't think of one episode that fired on all cylinders like "Snow Drifts."

 

I had it narrowed down to "White Out" and "The Apprentice" as my top two, but struggled to pick which was the better overall episode. On the one hand, I really enjoyed the interaction between Elsa and Emma in the cave and Charming and Hook teaming up to help save her in "White Out." But there were enough cringeworthy scenes in that episode (Charming's flashback with Bo Peep and the stupid power outage C-Plot) that made me decide against it. I ended up having to side with "The Apprentice," just because I could watch those date scenes over and over again, it had a somewhat interesting flashback with The Apprentice, and it also introduced us more to the hat plot. (Unfortunately, the hat plot never got its proper due the rest of the season.) The only big thing that pissed me off about that episode was how the writers treated the return of Hook's hand as some kind of annoying accessory one can take on and off instead of the big freaking deal it should have been. The fact that we never hear about that plot again makes me angry at the later episodes, but not the initial episode for some reason.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

I thought my favorite episode was "White Out" for the same reasons you mentioned.  The Elsa/Emma interaction was really good, though I was surprised to hear that Emma had opened up to Elsa about her personal life (ie, she has a son).  It just seemed a bit out of character for Emma to do that so quickly.  

 

I hated the fairybacks.  I actually pretty much disliked anything to do with Anna.  She taught that big ol' coward, negative ninny David how to sword fight.  Yes, Anna is so unbelievably awesome.  Except for finding out more about David's backstory, I thought the whole thing was pretty irrelevant and sort of bad.

 

The Apprentice was a good enough episode and I did enjoy it but got annoyed with Hook staring at his hand.  I get why they were doing that, but after 3 times, it was like yes, I got it.  Sometimes, I wonder if they realize that the audience is actually a tad smarter than they made it out to be.  The fairy backs were good and Anna was tolerable.

 

Upon re-watch, I still don't know why they gave Belle a whole extensive episode because it amounted to absolutely nothing.  She did not bump into Anna in Storybrooke, Belle had no clue that Rumple was lying about knowing Anna and Elsa.  There was as far as I'm concerned no resolution for that.  Same thing with Rumple and Anna.  I was expecting something, them bumping into each other and Anna having the reverse reaction Emma had to Rumple when she saw him in all his Dark One glory in the EF.  

 

But whatever...the hero of the first half was fucking Anna who was just a recurring character.  She met all these people in the EF, she found Ingrid's place of hiding, the bottle with the message, she told Emma how Gold is a lying liar who lies.  Anna = HERO, everyone else = MORONS.

 

All that to say that my favorite episode in 4A was episode 3, Rocky Road.  Yes, it had Regina and Robin in it, but whatever, I've become good at shutting them out, there's this humming that goes off in my brain automatically whenever they come on and I realize that I should probably go see a doctor, but I don't know how to start that conversation (j/k).

 

Rocky Road was good.  I enjoyed Emma and David working together, Will is either the biggest idiot or he just never learned to read.  Ingrid's scenes with Elsa were really good, her reaction to Emma got me excited for the rest of the season (I felt a bit letdown until they did the Ingrid/Emma flashbacks).  The Hook/Emma scenes were good and Emma finally voiced what she her fears though some of us had guessed right in the spoiler thread.

 

And I don't think the episode had any fairybacks.

 

I think generally speaking, I'm just tired of fairybacks that are completely irrelevant and just seem to be filler.  Instead of doing that, I don't know, we can focus on actual character development.

 

The show I hated the most was 405 followed by Heroes and Villains.  I'd like to say that the two hour wasn't amazing because there was a lot of filler there (and it's too bad because Goodman and Schwartz usually do a good job with their scripts), but there were some really good scenes.  The Emma/Rumple scene was really awesome and I know it was added late in the game, but it served its purpose and it was a callback to the scene Emma and Rumple had in season 2 after Emma had come back from the Enchanted Forest.  Rumple bet against Emma again and lost again.  I think it was high time Emma and Rumple had a scene with actual substance to it.

 

I think with Once, what sticks with me more than the actual episodes is the scenes.  I won't remember what episode it was, but I'll remember the scenes.

[Delphi]

I actually chose the two parter because of the Emma and Rumple scene. I think they did amazing with that. I liked Elsa in it. For the most part I enjoyed Regina.

Loved Elsa and Anna's sisterly bond.

Plus Henry got hurt.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Delphi

[YaddaYadda]

Plus Henry got hurt.

 

So enjoying ourselves when a child is hurt, which circle of Hell do you think this is?  I mean it is Henry, so it shouldn't really count, but have to ask anyway.

[Delphi]

Usually I don't. My shows have been a bit lackluster lately so I'll take my laughs where I can get them.

I don't know if I was supposed to laugh there but I did. Like on Arrow, I'm sure I'm not supposed to laugh when this girl gets punched in the face. But the girl in question is Laurel, so it's funny.

[YaddaYadda]

Usually I don't. My shows have been a bit lackluster lately so I'll take my laughs where I can get them.

 

It wasn't a knock.  I really despise Henry.  I wish he'd fall down the rabbit hole.  But then we'd have to #SaveHenryAGAIN.

[Delphi]

I wouldn't even mind Henry if he wasn't running around talking about how much of a hero Regina is and how she's good now. He's clearly been hanging around Belle too much.

[KingOfHearts]

 

He's clearly been hanging around Belle too much.

Are we sure Belle isn't his biological mother?

[RadioGirl27]

When I submitted the poll for the week "What was your favorite episode of 4A," I didn't realize how difficult it would be to narrow my decision down to one episode. It's not that I had trouble choosing between multiple favorites, but I legitimately had a hard time picking one episode that I enjoyed the whole way through. There were plenty of moments or scenes I enjoyed in 4A, but honestly, I can't think of one episode that fired on all cylinders like "Snow Drifts."

Yeah, it was really difficult for me to choose, because, while some episodes (not many) had good moments, the biggest part of the season has been an utter crap. In the end, I have gone with Rocky Road. I liked the interaction between Hook and Elsa, short as it was (they had so much potential, both having lost a sibling) and the final scene with Hook and Emma. The other option was White Out, but the flashback was so, so, so bad, that it outshines the good things of the episodes (Frozen Swan, Captain Charming, the hug).

[KingOfHearts]

https://twitter.com/AdamHorowitzLA/status/566349921335246849

 

Script excerpt posted of Graham's death scene. A&E probably truly believed Regina "had no choice".

 

 

When I submitted the poll for the week "What was your favorite episode of 4A," I didn't realize how difficult it would be to narrow my decision down to one episode.

I'm in my rewatch, which I'll post about when I'm done, but I went with Rocky Road. Loved Ingrid's introduction and the character interactions in both Arendelle and Storybrooke. The pacing was well-balanced as well. It was just a joy to watch multiple times.

Edited February 13, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[KAOS Agent]

 

Belle had no clue that Rumple was lying about knowing Anna and Elsa.  There was as far as I'm concerned no resolution for that.

 

This made no sense either because in "Family Business" it was clear that Belle knew that Anna had been talking about Rumpelstiltskin. While Anna never said his name, Belle was clearly intrigued about this dark sorcerer. She researched all about him on her trip home and proposed they ask him for help with the ogre problem. Belle was well aware that Anna and Rumpel had met.

 

In my rewatch, I skipped through almost all of the Frozen stuff. It was interesting the first time through, but I didn't need to see it again. Anna's tour through the Enchanted Forest was boring. Bo Peep the Warlord was fantastic, but the totally awesome Anna giving the cowardly David his courage was terrible. If I didn't know better, I'd think she was the Wizard. When marathoning the season, Anna's overwhelming presence in the fairybacks gets really, really annoying.

 

I had a hard time picking my favorite episode because there is pretty much not a single episode in 4A that I would rewatch beginning to end. I ended up selecting "Rocky Road" because it was the most enjoyable. I liked how it set up Ingrid's interest in Elsa and her reaction to Emma. It also had a tiny bit of fish out of water stuff with Hook trying to explain a mobile phone to Elsa. Also, major bonus points for having Emma tell off Regina for being bitter and blaming the wrong person.

[Shanna Marie]

I'd have trouble picking a favorite because there was no one episode that really stood out in a positive way for me. There were scenes I liked, but there wasn't one episode that I liked unreservedly, start to finish.

[Souris]

I picked "White Out" because the Captain Swan stuff was awesome, there was Captain Charming, I liked Anna, there was minimal Regina, and warlord Bo-Peep was crazy in a fun way. It certainly wasn't perfect, but I enjoyed it the most.