Camera One April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 (edited) How many times can the writers play this "X isn't X. They're actually Y!" trick? The only "new" thing about this time is that they dragged it out for 18 episodes before revealing it. In 4B, we've already had Rumple pretending to be Hook. In 4A, we had Ingrid pretending to be Anna (though this one was really obvious). In 3B, we had Zelena pretending to be Ariel. In 3A, we had Peter Pan pretending to be Henry. In 2B, we had Cora pretending to be Blue (in flashback). In 2A, we had Cora pretending to be Lancelot. And that doesn't even include non-shapeshifting identity deception like the Rogue Author pretending to be a peddler or Peter Pan pretending to be a Lost Boy. Edited April 18, 2015 by Camera One Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 Also--Cora pretended to be Regina in 2B. Rumple pretended to be Regina to trap Zelena in 3B. Rumple helped Regina glamor herself into an old woman in 2B. Hook and Emma had a glamored identity in their Time Travel adventure. In the second category, Zoso pretended to be a simple peasant with Rumple. August pretended to be Baelfire to Rumple. Rumple pretended to be an old man to fratboy Killian. Man, these writers are repetitive, aren't they? 1 Link to comment
Souris April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I was going to do the favorites/least favorites game, but then I realized I was going to say pretty much the exact same things that Curio said. So, my answers are: What Curio said. With the exception of Neal being in the favorites category (but Bae can stay there, because I loved him and honestly, they're two completely different characters). Neal is the show's No. 2 underneath my all-time least favorite of any character on any TV show I've ever watched in the history of ever (and I've watched A LOT), unholy effing black hole of suck Regina. 6 Link to comment
Camera One April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I knew I forgot a few. Cora pretended to be Henry too in 2B. It just never gets old... apparently. 2 Link to comment
stealinghome April 18, 2015 Author Share April 18, 2015 Man, these writers are repetitive, aren't they? They repeat magic tricks all the time, too, and that repetition bugs me a lot, because it's like once they decide to give one of their magic-users a new trick, they decide that all the magic-users can use that trick. It's like Pan's freeze trick in 3x11...suddenly Zelena could do it at a whim, and then Rumpel could do it. But it bugs because if Rumpel could always do it, whey didn't he use it one of the 3463946 times it would have been advantageous before? I mean, this is partially a complaint about the contrived nature of magic and the writing on the show, but it always is particularly grating--and noticeable--for me when they start repeating magic tricks, because it's so obvious. For the poll... (and keep in mind I haven't watched the past 2 or 3 episodes because the show has gotten so bad): Favorite Characters Charming; S1-4A Emma; S1-3 Rumpel; S1-2A Snow. Least Favorite Characters Does Robin Hood even count as a character? He seems to me to be a cardboard cutout.... Regina. I just can't with the way the show is twisted to fit the character. S3-4 Henry: I liked him in S1-2, but they don't know how to write for a teenage Henry and the Regina lobotomy has been particularly glaring on him. Favorite Couple Snowing, especially in S1-2. Least Favorite Couple Outlaw Queen, and it's not even close. Favorite Episodes Pilot (forever the best episode of this show) Snow Falls (forever my favorite episode of this show...talk about peaking early) Skin Deep Red Handed Heart of Darkness Hat Trick Apple Red as Blood Land Without Magic Broken Manhattan Miller's Daughter Lost Girl New Neverland Going Home (really ought to have been the series finale) Least Favorite Episodes That Still Small Voice What Happened to Frederick Dreamy In the Name of the Brother Welcome to Storybrooke Selfless, Brave, and True The Evil Queen (not that it's a bad episode per se but this was when the show just crossed the line with Regina) Nasty Habits Quiet Minds Bleeding Through Kansas Breaking Glass Favorite Season S1 is definitely at the top; 2A; the first few and last few episodes of 3A. Least Favorite Season 2B after 'The Miller's Daughter'; 3B. Though 4B is the one that has finally made me give up the show, so, you know.... 1 Link to comment
Shanna Marie April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 They repeat magic tricks all the time, too, and that repetition bugs me a lot, because it's like once they decide to give one of their magic-users a new trick, they decide that all the magic-users can use that trick. Like healing. In season 2, when Henry was burned in the red room, Regina couldn't do anything about it magically and Rumple healed it. In season 4 when Henry is injured during Emma's magic explosion, Regina magically heals it. No one seems to notice that this is new and different. I generally think that magical healing is a big mistake in fantasy unless there are big limitations (only a few people can do it, it requires a lot of energy, it requires certain potions or rituals, it still requires healing and recovery time even if the wound itself is magically closed) because it removes any sense of real jeopardy, but then again, that hasn't been a huge issue in a while because they're allergic to consequences anyway, almost all conflict is handled with jazz hands, and they sword fight with their elbows and sword hilts. Thinking back on my least-favorite character answer, I've realized that Regina herself isn't all that badly written. The problem isn't so much with Regina as it is with the fact that the writing for her doesn't match the writing for everyone else. Their actions and attitudes are totally out of whack with her actions and attitudes. It's like there are two different, parallel shows going on simultaneously. So, for instance ... Regina destroys the magic beans that they've been carefully cultivating from what may be the last known magic bean in existence, then sets up a doomsday device to destroy the whole town and kill everyone in it. She only puts herself on the line to stop the device when it gets hijacked and she finds herself trapped, so that instead of her getting Henry all to herself, Henry would be left utterly alone. Normal, expected reaction: What the hell is wrong with you? I guess we'll let you live because you did help save us, but you'll be wearing that anti-magic cuff for a while. (From Henry: You tried to kill my whole family!) The reaction on this show: You're a hero! Now, please be our friend! (From Henry, once they were reunited: I wish I'd never gone to get Emma.) The wife of Regina's boyfriend of two days returns, sending Regina into the depths of despair so that she quits her job and shuts her son out of her house. Normal, expected reaction: Seriously? You were dating for two days. That's not even worthy of the good ice cream. Grow the hell up. The reaction on this show: It's my job to give you a happy ending It turns out that Regina was the one who imprisoned Marian in the first place, and in the original timeline she executed her. Normal, expected reaction: You took my Marian away from me! I can't believe I thought I was in love with you. The reaction on this show: Marian gave up everything for me, and that teaches me that I should ditch Marian for Regina. Regina decides that it's because of the storybook that she can't get a happy ending. Normal, expected reaction: Are you insane? You do know that you only get "endings" like that in books. In real life, life goes on, and sometimes good things happen and sometimes bad things happen. Have you noticed that things haven't been exactly peachy for the people the book says got a happy ending. You make your own happy ending, and sometimes that's even because you learn to be happy in your circumstances, whatever they are. Reaction on this show: That's the best idea ever! We'll devote our lives to finding a way to get a new ending written for you because you're such a great hero that you deserve it! Regina may be kind of insane, but she has some internal logical consistency. It's the writing for all the other characters that makes no sense whatsoever. 10 Link to comment
Camera One April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I agree. On rewatching a few episodes of 4B, Regina actually has been given decent writing and a redemptive arc, and if she were all I was watching for, I'd be fine with it. Ditto for a character like Hook, who is faring pretty okay in having a redemptive arc, showing genuine regret, etc. To me, these are the only characters lucky enough to have a coherent character arc with adequate time devoted to their mindset. Of course, still not "quality writing" per se, but nothing to the level of unconvincing and out-of-character crap the other characters are being served. 5 Link to comment
FurryFury April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 So now that we've had a lot (too many?!) episodes, which would you say are your very favorites? Least favorites? And how would you rank the seasons from best to worst?!And, while we're at it...which characters/couples were/are your favorites and least favorites? (By the way, am I the only person who adored Wonderland?! Yeah, I'll show myself the door... :)) Favorite episodes: Red-Handed, Hat Trick, The Miller's Daughter, Lost Girl, Going Home. Miller's Daughter as #1 overall. Least favorite: Breaking Glass, Bleeding Through, The Evil Queen, Manhattan, everything Zelena-centric, probably the latest Robin-centric travesty I can't bring myself to watch. Favorite characters: Emma. Ruby. Jefferson. Young Cora. Season 1 Snow. Season 1/2 Rumple. Least favorite characters: Robin (by far) Neal Regina, except for young Regina - still have a soft spot for her, she doesn't feel like the same character for me Starting with mid-s2, Henry Favorite couples: This will be a bit weird, because I can't name one canon couple that the show hasn't ruined, so I'll mention the time period as well. Cora/Rumple in "The Miller's Daughter". Canon soulmates by word of god, Rumbelle shippers be damned! Hot and passionate and so, so dysfunctional, but so deserving each other. Mad Swan (not a popular opinion, but I would have shipped it like hell if Sebastian remained on the show) Snowing in season 1 CS in 3A Least favorite couples: OQ (by far) Rumbelle David/Mary Margaret (yep, despite liking Snowing, couldn't stand these two) 1 Link to comment
SilverShadow April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 (edited) Favorite episodes (From absolute favorite down): "Snow Falls" "The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter" "Snow Drifts"/"There's No Place Like Home" "Ariel" "Dark Hollow" "Heart of Darkness" "Poor Unfortunate Soul" "Second Star to the Right" "Rocky Road" "The Apprentice" Least Favorite Episodes (From worst up): "Best Laid Plans" (Bullshit baby reveal) "Breaking Glass" (Emma licking Regina's boots and Regina being a bitch in return) "In the Name of the Brother" (Solely for the Cora/Regina team-up. Sorry Victor/Whale, your plot was fine!) "Bleeding Through" (Retcon. Heroes are just as bad as the villains early preview.) "Quiet Minds" (It was laughably transparent how quickly they wanted Neal gone. And I say that as someone mostly indifferent to him.) "Kansas" (Regina saves the day.) "Selfless, Brave and True" (This and the rest don't make me angry, they're just so badly written.) "The Snow Queen" "Enter the Dragon" "The Tower" Favorite characters: Snow (When they aren't trying to character assassinate her), Emma, Hook, Charming, Ariel, Will. Least favorite characters: Regina (when they're trying to canonize her), Neal, August, Tamara. Favorite couples: Snowing, Captain Swan, Ariel/Eric (in the 30 seconds we got of them) Least favorite couples: Outlaw Queen Rumpbelle when it's being played as if it's functional. Edited April 18, 2015 by SilverShadow 4 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 (edited) I had forgotten about Maleficent's connection to Emma and Hook. Not to mention the ridiculous "all is forgiven" schtick with Regina and Rumple. And apparently, Aurora and her parents are now completely off her radar? Wouldn't the girls' wild night out doing "evil" involve magic instead of getting drunk and setting a Sheriff's car on fire? Especially when, in the flashbacks, Maleficent murders 3 guards for kicks and Ursula talks about how her tentacles are getting bored asking if she could kill Snow and Charming? It's all inconsistent as hell. It's all part of A&E's tunnel vision. They only care about the plot they want to do, consistency be darned. Will stealing from her, Emma killing her, and Regina trapping her underground were all about moments and whatever plot that needed to be served when they happened. They weren't part of a grand scheme to work into Maleficent's story as a whole. Right now there are only two parts A&E care about - Snowing's Villainous Deed and Lily. Nothing else in their minds matter because it's not fresh or exciting to them. This is another example of plot driving characters instead of the other way around. While Maleficent's widespread revenge should be the force moving her actions, her intentions need to be changed in order to fit how the writers want the arc to execute. Instead of taking what was in the past they already lined up, they introduced a retcon. The answer can be staring them right in the face, yet they still resort to conjuring ridiculous ideas detached from the show's timeline. Edited April 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts 5 Link to comment
FurryFury April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I remember how we all hoped to see Maleficent again because she was a character that had roots in the show. But considering that basically all the stuff that was written about her previously has been dropped in favor of an inane egg-snatching retcon, it really could have been anyone else in her place. No point in getting the actress back, even. 9 Link to comment
Shanna Marie April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 Maleficent could have been anyone -- pick a random Disney villain or make up a new one. Her story could have been done involving the other queens of darkness (though I guess without the assumption that whatever was in an egg laid by a dragon wouldn't be human). Why use this character who not only has a canon story arc from the source material but who also has a complicated past with just about every other character on the show -- and then disregard that past to create a new one? I still want to know what her issue with Stefan and Briar Rose was in the first place that led to the sleeping curse on Aurora. Though I guess we shouldn't be surprised that she forgave Regina. Everyone else has. Not that we know how or why Regina trapped her under the library in dragon form. Wow, that was a very specific curse. 4 Link to comment
FurryFury April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 (edited) If they really wanted Maleficent, they should have just built the arc around her. She had plenty of connections to explore. Rumple, Regina, Emma, David, even Will and Hook... More than enough for a half-season. They even could have made it Regina-centric and make her the hero, easily (not that I'd want to but you know A&E do). I just don't get what were they thinking with all these Queens of Darkness plotline. Such a waste. Edited April 18, 2015 by FurryFury 7 Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 They could have had half a season with Maleficent really easily. They did not need to bring in Cruella or Ursula. I was really looking forward to Maleficent's return, I found her compelling in the couple of episodes we had. The retired villain, living out her life in her castle, not really bothering anyone, it was more like others were bothering her instead. And there was the whole black fairy aspect of things. Adam said that she isn't the Black Fairy, so I'm assuming we will be encountering that character eventually...or not. It's interesting that the Black Fairy is also established in the show's mythos. Maleficent, missed opportunity for sure. That was a huge mine of stories and she will be nothing but a blip on the radar, but let's give her a BS daughter who so happens to have been Emma's BFF for 8 hours. <eye roll> 5 Link to comment
Camera One April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 Maleficent could have been anyone -- pick a random Disney villain or make up a new one. Her story could have been done involving the other queens of darkness (though I guess without the assumption that whatever was in an egg laid by a dragon wouldn't be human). They could have said Cruella could turn into a Dog and it lays eggs. 2 Link to comment
Zuleikha April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 I know the popular theory here is that characterizations and plot gets twisted to benefit Regina (which I obviously disagree with!), but I think Maleficent is an example of poor storytelling happen because of Emma. Without the Snowing/eggbaby arc, Emma has no direct connection to the Queens of Darkness or the author plot. Personally, I think this is fine. Emma's a central character because of her present-day connections to everyone in Storybrooke. She can be brought into the plot logically without needing a direct connection. But I would bet that when the writers were plotting the arc, they felt the emotional stakes weren't high enough for Emma, and so devised Lily and Snowing stealing the baby to change that. Of course, it doesn't work because there's not enough time to let any of the 4B stories breathe. They would have been better off, IMHO, to have Emma's connection be the question of whether the Author had the power to drive her dark through magic, regardless of what she wanted or to simply not worry about her having an emotional plot connection but work on her emotional character connections. Normal, expected reaction: What the hell is wrong with you? I guess we'll let you live because you did help save us, but you'll be wearing that anti-magic cuff for a while. (From Henry: You tried to kill my whole family!)The reaction on this show: You're a hero! Now, please be our friend! (From Henry, once they were reunited: I wish I'd never gone to get Emma.) You forgot Neverland in between Henry's quote. Neverland is important because that's where and how Regina regained people's strust. Also, Regina destroyed the beans because she learned that Snow/David/et al were planning on using them to bring everyone (I believe including Henry) to the Enchanted Forest but leaving her behind. It was a defensive action on her part. Regina thought about using the failsafe, but she didn't do it, so it would also be a bit crazy to blame her for what Greg/Tamara did and that Regina sacrificed herself to stop (yes, she didn't actually die because of Emma, but Regina was sacrificing herself before Emma figured out how to join and save her so it's not like there was a question about whether Regina was all talk). Link to comment
FurryFury April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 Without the Snowing/eggbaby arc, Emma has no direct connection to the Queens of Darkness or the author plot. Considering the way it's dealt with, I'm not sure this "direct connection" counts. Also, Emma didn't have a direct connection with "Cora in SB plot". Or with Zelena plot (remember how Regina just saved the day?) Emma's really not the problem here. 2 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 18, 2015 Share April 18, 2015 (edited) Without the Snowing/eggbaby arc, Emma has no direct connection to the Queens of Darkness or the author plot. I haven't been a fan of the plots they've given Emma because they always feel secondary and more of a means to keep her relevant as opposed to actually developing her character. Her New York plot in 3B was stagnant until the finale, and Foster Mom Ingrid had zero impact. She is, in my opinion, the main character of the show. It worked well in S1 when she was at the center of the main plot with being the Savior to break the curse, but now I'm not sure the writers know what to do with her. Now they have to give her a connection via Lily, which is about a character I really don't care about. Edited April 18, 2015 by KingOfHearts 1 Link to comment
Shanna Marie April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 I don't like the way they've tried to make Emma related to any of the current plots, but I don't have a problem with her being at the center of the plot because goodness knows, she hasn't been allowed to really resolve a plot since she True Love Kissed Henry in season one and broke the curse. Otherwise, Snow killed Cora and Emma played backup to Regina's undoing of the failsafe in season 2. Emma was the leader of the Save Henry quest, up until the end when it was Rumple who killed Pan (I guess he'll be coming back, since we didn't see a body) and Regina who undid the curse. It was Regina who defeated Zelena, after all the "only Emma can save us, so we have to do the curse to get to her" buildup. 4A seemed to be about Emma, with her coming to terms with her power and being the person Ingrid was seeking, but it was Anna who saved them from Ingrid and Belle who defeated Rumple. Now if they follow their usual pattern, after all this stuff about Emma being needed for the Author stuff and being at the center of the Maleficent story, when it comes down to the final resolution she'll be frozen or otherwise helpless and someone else will save the day. I would have been fine if Emma had taken a back seat to the plot parts of the story during this arc and had her just being a general-purpose hero who was fighting against the villain because that's what heroes do rather than being personally caught up in it all. She's the sheriff. She should be protecting the town against invaders, whether or not they have grudges against her parents, predicted her turning into a villain before birth, or need her to be dark for them to win. 4 Link to comment
KAOS Agent April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Without the Snowing/eggbaby arc, Emma has no direct connection to the Queens of Darkness or the author plot. Actually, I think Emma did have a connection. The Snowing/egg baby stuff was used to connect Snowing to the plot. Without that, Snow wouldn't have a connection at all. Emma is the sheriff, killed Maleficent in dragon form and is dating the guy who screwed over Ursula. That's three ways Emma is connected to the plot without the Baby Hitler subplot. What's Snow's connection to anything without this stupid spell? There is none. You could say David had a small connection with the magic egg, but Maleficent doesn't seem to care about Aurora or Regina or any other slights, so he's limited too. The egg baby stuff is not an Emma contrivance, it's a Snowing contrivance. 6 Link to comment
Camera One April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) The Snowing/egg baby stuff was written to be a catalyst to affect Emma AND a way to use Snow/Charming since they had nothing else for them to do (even though there was a ton they could have used them for). So in a way, it's a bit of both. But it also benefits neither, and is more plot-oriented than digging deeper into Emma, Snow or Charming. The question is ultimately, is the potential for Emma to turn dark about Emma, or is it about whether Regina will choose to save Emma or Robin? Or is it about Lily and Maleficent? Either way, it sure as hell isn't about Snowing. Edited April 19, 2015 by Camera One 3 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) We'll have to see how 4B plays out in regard to Emma. With A&E's track record, it's hard to picture Emma's anger having any lasting impact on her relationships. The only reason she's had any realistic reaction at all is because its fits into the writers' PLOT PLOT PLOT. ("What if the Savior went dark?! OMG!") A similar situation happened in 4A when Ingrid brought up her parental issues. If it weren't a plot device it wouldn't have come up at all. Edited April 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 This babynapping nonsense should have brought back Snow's issues with Emma's magic in 4A. Emma should be wondering whether the reason Snow was freaking out about her magic was because she was afraid that Emma would go dark. Were her parents okay with Emma getting rid of her magic because they wanted to nix her "greatest potential for darkness"? But there has been no effort to connect these events from 4A with this current plot. I think that is wasted opportunity. Maybe it will come up in later episodes, but I have very little faith that it will. 1 Link to comment
Dianthus April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) Souris, on 16 Apr 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:Souris, on 16 Apr 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:Which particular developments were those? I watched BtVS but was never in the fandom so don't know all the scuttlebutt. I'll PM you the answer. Edited April 19, 2015 by Dianthus Link to comment
FabulousTater April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) The only reason she's had any realistic reaction at all is because its fits into the writers' PLOT PLOT PLOT. ("What if the Savior went dark?! OMG!") Because it's This Show(TM) I'm gettin the feeling that turning Emma dark has less to do with making her upset and forcing her to turn to dark actions, and more that Rumpel wants The Author to scribble down with his magic, free will robbing quill "And Emma Swan becomes EVIL INCARNATE!" and Boom! Black Swan poofs into existence. So more insta-dark Emma because Author and less of an existential issue like "Oh, noes, will Emma choose the darkside because her life is shit?!?!" Edited April 19, 2015 by FabulousTater 3 Link to comment
Zuleikha April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 ut I don't have a problem with her being at the center of the plot because goodness knows, she hasn't been allowed to really resolve a plot since she True Love Kissed Henry in season one and broke the curse. She may not have resolved a plot, but she's been central and the writers have tried to give her an emotional link to all of them. In 2B, she brought Rumple to Neal and her feelings for Neal were supposed to be what connected her emotionally to Greg/Tamara. It flopped because Greg/Tamara flopped, but that was clearly the writer's strategy. I also wouldn't describe her as backup to Regina's sacrifice; Emma saved Regina and along with her, Storybrooke. In 3A, she was emotionally connected because of Henry and Emma was crucial to the resolution in Neverland. She didn't take the actions in the Storybrooke epilogue, but she was still an important part of the finale and the resolution was part of her character journey and development. In 3B, she was emotionally connected because of the prophecy of the effect of breaking curse 2.0 on Henry and plot-connected because of the Zelena prophecy. In 4A, she was emotionally connected because of Ingrid's interest in her/the mystery of Ingrid's past connection (which I think was a weak connection that becomes weaker with knowledge of the full 1/2 season). And in 4B, the writers are trying to give her emotional stakes with Lily, the eggbaby, and the question of whether she's going dark. I agree that it's unnecessary, but I also think it's just factual that this is what the writers are trying to do. Look at Emma's emotional scenes. The eggbaby stuff/relationship with Snowing is where the writers are giving Emma emotional stakes. Heck, you can look at Snowing's scenes where it's all about their relationship with Emma and not about themselves as people or heck, fear for baby Neal (outside of one Snow nightmare). And yes, I already agreed that I don't think the writers needed to do this; that Emma has enough plot-based connections they can just let her be involved in her roles as sheriff, Savior, Regina's friend, and Henry's mother. I'm boggled that people are taking what I'm saying as some kind of negative critique of Emma's character. 2 Link to comment
MostlyC April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Some of the more recent posts belong in character threads. Be mindful when you post here. Link to comment
HoodlumSheep April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 For the new poll I chose Camelot. I got a good fill of Wonderland and Agrabah in the Wonderland series (I'd love to see more though). But in the end I chose Camelot due to the fact that that's the only realm we haven't physically seen item, despite all the item connections. Link to comment
Mari April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 For the new poll I chose Camelot. I got a good fill of Wonderland and Agrabah in the Wonderland series (I'd love to see more though). Me, too. I liked quite a bit of Wonderland--even the really cartoony CGI, because it seemed to me like Wonderland wouldn't look normal. But, it really felt like Wonderland was finished, except for the Hatter stuff, and without recasting we're not likely to see him again. As for Oz? They didn't even touch on most of the Oz stuff, but if we go back to Oz, we're going to get stuck with Zelena, more Zelena, even more Zelena . . . and, just, no. No. 1 Link to comment
Camera One April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) I feel like Camelot will look like the Enchanted Forest. I guess we might get to see one iconic location, maybe the Round Table, and the cave where Merlin eats babies. I didn't like the "look" of Agrabah. Is Agrabah in the Fairytale land with the Enchanted Forest and Arendelle or is it a separate world? If so, I don't get why it's separate while Sherwood Forest, Ancient China, Ancient Greece and Arendelle are all in the same world as the Enchanted Forest. I think Wonderland was covered pretty well in the spinoff. The poll left out Neverland and Fictional Victorian England Land. Though those two have been explored already in 3A and the spinoff, respectively. I went with Oz even though I am really starting to hate Zelena. And only because all we've seen is the Throne Room, the Yellow Brick Road and a brief glimpse of Dorothy's house. Oh yeah, and the dumb table where the idiotic Witches sit. Edited April 19, 2015 by Camera One 1 Link to comment
Souris April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 I would've said Camelot, but I just figure the show will ruin or waste it, so the Arthurian fan in me couldn't choose it. And that's just a sad commentary on the show, frankly. 4 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) The poll left out Neverland Sorry about that, haha. Totally forgot about it. Didn't include Fictional Victorian England because it's never been shown or mentioned on the parent show. Edited April 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts Link to comment
FurryFury April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) They'll ruin everything anyway, so Camelot. I still feel it should have been better to go with parallels, like Snow/Arthur (hey,Emma could be Mordred if they are so intent on making her dark), Rumple (or even Blue Fairy)/Merlyn, etc., but I really doubt it could happen. Edited April 19, 2015 by FurryFury 2 Link to comment
Camera One April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Snow will be Mordred, Regina will be Arthur, and Merlin will be an incompetent dunce. 1 Link to comment
FurryFury April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 More likely everyone will be played by new actors but Regina will still save the day just because. Also, David and/or Snow will turn out to have ruined Morgana's life causing her to become evil. 3 Link to comment
Camera One April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 We can systematically take any fantasy world and ruin it using this show. It's a gift. 3 Link to comment
KingOfHearts April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) Also, David and/or Snow will turn out to have ruined Morgana's life causing her to become evil. Cora's love child with King Arthur? Rumbelle's chipped cup is the Holy Grail. And the Dagger is really Excalibur. Edited April 19, 2015 by KingOfHearts 3 Link to comment
Souris April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Rumbelle's chipped cup is the Holy Grail. 4 Link to comment
Crimson Belle April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Imagine what they would do to Middle Earth. Tolkien would arise from the dead as a Nazgul and go all Witch King on their asses. 2 Link to comment
YaddaYadda April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Visually speaking, Camelot is the one that makes the most sense. Emma will be thought to be the reincarnation of Morgan Le Fay. They can bring in Morgause. Whatever happened to Camelot? Was it ripped from the EF like the other lands were or was it outside of the curse or was it in Coradome? I'm assuming they'll want Arthur to be alive. It's probably seeing Bradley James on iZombie, but I feel very nostalgic for Camelot and Arthur an Merlin. Link to comment
FurryFury April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 Cora's love child with King Arthur? With Uther. Taking another's shape is her hobby. But then, it's right up this guy's alley, canonically. Imagine what they would do to Middle Earth. Tolkien would arise from the dead as a Nazgul and go all Witch King on their asses. Way too many guys to work well. The show has shown remarkable restraint with gender bending so far. Which is not that good, really - some stories could use some. It's probably seeing Bradley James on iZombie, but I feel very nostalgic for Camelot and Arthur an Merlin. Not a big fan of Merlin (only saw season 1), but seeing Bradley James as Liv's LI is really fun. Too bad he's temporary. Link to comment
Camera One April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 A portal could open from Pop Culture World, and Katniss from the Hunger Games, Bella from Twilight and Buffy the Vampire Slayer would walk into Storybrooke... The Queens of Emo. 4 Link to comment
FurryFury April 19, 2015 Share April 19, 2015 (edited) You must mean season 6 Buffy, because comparing her to Bella is otherwise really insulting to her character (no opinion on Katniss). Edited April 19, 2015 by FurryFury 2 Link to comment
tennisgurl April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 So, is this the right place to talk about this? We now know at least something of how this multiverse seems to work. There are certain lands that are forever in certain time periods, so they never change in story type. Is that what was being said? I just need to know how exactly all this is supposed to work. Plus, he was reading The Great Gatsby, and its been implied that all fictional characters exist in different parts of this multiverse, what does it mean? Link to comment
Mathius April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 So, is this the right place to talk about this? We now know at least something of how this multiverse seems to work. There are certain lands that are forever in certain time periods, so they never change in story type. Is that what was being said? Yeah, that's what was being said. Alice from OUATIW came from a similar world where it was perpetually Victorian England. Link to comment
FurryFury April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 (edited) Only Alice's England was Victorian, while this was 1920s. I'm really confused by all this "story worlds" nonsense. Is this the first mention of this stuff? I thought we were supposed to believe than EFL and worlds were as real as ours. Edited April 20, 2015 by FurryFury 1 Link to comment
whyjoshua April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I'm really confused by all this "story worlds" nonsense. Is this the first mention of this stuff? I thought we were supposed to believe than EFL and worlds were as real as ours. It has been mentioned before that Disney movies exist in the Land Without Magic, right? (Which is really weird when you think about it, because you would imagine Emma being starstruck constantly. Or at least I would.) And we know that "Walt" was an Author, though whether Walt-Author was actually Walt Disney or that was just a wink the audience, I don't know. Now that the Author is making it clear that the magical worlds are purely fictional (they don't progress in history, people have "stories" instead of lives, people have clearly defined roles like "hero" and "villain"), the cosmological setup reminds me a lot of the comic Fables. In that comic, fairy tale characters are real and live in what they call the Homelands. We live in the Mundane world. When a story is told in a certain way in the Mundane world, it alters the fairy tale characters—for example, when a fairy tale character is extremely popular (like Snow White), they become very difficult to kill because they are so necessary to Mundies. It's an intentionally metafictional setup and I'm not sure it looks good on OUAT, but they've really stepped in it the moment they brought up this Author business. Link to comment
FurryFury April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I've read Fables (well, half of it, got bored when they've started focusing on characters I don't care about), but the meta stuff was a built-in part of the world of the comic, while on Once, it was never really explained, but overall all worlds were implied to be "real". Before the premiere of the show, I was actually hoping they'll go the meta way, like, say, Princess Tutu anime, which is also fairy-tale themed (and also features an Author figure), but it's too late now to do it and it doesn't quite fit the very Disney-esque tone of the show so far. 1 Link to comment
Rumsy4 April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 The "Storyworld" part makes no sense to me. Are all these people fictional characters that occasionally escape to the real world ala Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next series? No wonder most of them are so two-dimensional. The writers have also introduced additional problems with the author. With a few simple words, the rogue author could materialize jewels and grant magical powers. That's a huge amount of power to wield! Are we to believe that no other author before him was tempted to do so? How much did Isaac change? The very foundation of this show's narrative is shaky now. I don't like it when writers try to get too meta and try to be clever about their twists. Even headcanons can't make sense of this mess. 6 Link to comment
whyjoshua April 20, 2015 Share April 20, 2015 I agree. I think they've just garbled the whole thing. That's why I mentioned Walt Disney as an Author above. Obviously, OUAT characters typically only vaguely resemble their Disney movie counterparts. If Walt was an Author, and he "wrote" One Hundred and One Dalmatians (the movie), then why isn't Cruella exactly like the Cruella from the movie? Shouldn't the making of the Disney movie have magically altered her reality so that it conformed to the movie—just like how Isaac was able to arbitrarily alter 1920s London by scribbling on napkins?(And if that's not how it works, then why flag the existence of Disney movies in OUAT and Walt's status as an Author?) Link to comment
Recommended Posts