S05.E21: Farther On

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 1:57 AM, Irlandesa said:

Yeah.  I think I'm supposed to respect the artists bonding together and not selling out.  But holy hell did they misjudge how they decided to play this--or at least how it plays with me.  What Zach is asking might not feel comfortable for many of the artists, except perhaps Juliette, but what he's doing is incredible for their careers.  They get money.  They get exposure.  People who don't listen to country will be humming their songs. Their artistry will not be judged by a few song lyrics changed in a commercial.  It will be judged by the original version on the albums. So far, it looks like when it comes to albums, the artists have been able to maintain their artistic integrity.

So if they wanted me to cheer the artiste, they needed to have Zach make demands far more unreasonable than those he has been making. 

I also can't maintain dislike for Juliette when it comes to this song situation.  For one, it is not a story line worth the number of episodes dedicated to it so far.  Two, Juliette rerouted the song.  It was never in Maddie's possession.  Three---someone wants to change words to Maddie's song and she throws a hissy fit.  So I'm supposed to be upset that she wasn't given the chance to look over a song she had nothing to do with?  Why am I to believe she would have recorded it?

Just because Juliette's the obvious diva doesn't mean the others don't come off as whiny entitled babies.  Where will they go when Highway 65 folds? 

Not that it matters.  I'm sure some miracle will happen and it'll be saved.

ETA:  Alyssa sings and takes  off her glasses all sexy like? Oy.

I would have preferred the director pushing for Maddie to be sexual/provocative.  That would address how women across all genres of music are pushed to use their sexuality to get ahead.  Maybe he wanted her to show some skin, have her naked and writhing in sheets a la Faith Hill.  Something where Maddie could stand up and be supported by the other women of the label.  Juliette could say she uses her sexuality, but by her own choice.  Perhaps Juliette could say she feels personally empowered by her choices, but Maddie needs to do what feels right for herself.  That, to me, would be a much better message of staying true to yourself, than having a breakdown over a line change in a song.  If the label is going to go down, which probably means they'll lose everything, it has to be over something more than a few words changing.  It's a commercial, not the way she will record the song.

Plus it could counter act some of the ick factor from Scarlett being pushed so hard by her director, and having a self-realization which apparently justified his abuse. 

[ChiBurbsMama]

On 8/4/2017 at 11:14 AM, zabooky said:

uhhhhh....... why were all the members of the band and the tour staff in general so wild and playful?? Are we 5? I didn't get the constant shoving and hitting like a middle school playground type of situation. unless everyone was drunk all the time? I dunno.

Yeah, random tour manager chick actually TOUSLED the roadie's hair after yelling at him for being rough with the amps -- like a kindergarten teacher making up with a 5-yr-old she had just scolded. Weird moment.

On 8/4/2017 at 11:14 AM, zabooky said:

Deacon on the screen 80% of the episode is not. He is not interesting or cute enough.

Not "cute" -- that's for boys. He's ruggedly handsome & mature. Deacon is definitely my favorite man candy on the show! ;)

Edited August 5, 2017 by ChiBurbsMama

[piratewench]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I felt like I understood Zach's frustration.  I work with people who are super philosophical and analytical.  We could get together to plan a picnic and while creating a signup sheet with different categories and types of things to bring, we can end up in a ten minute discussion whether cheese belongs in the "appetizer" category or "dessert" category.  So we end up stuck on step one instead of getting shit done.

H65 was struggling with Rayna.  They needed Zach's money.  Zach didn't have to strong arm as much with Rayna around because, as much as she was there for the artists, Rayna could also be practical.  Zach was the money man and Rayna was the person who could better deal with both commerce and artistry.  I wonder if it's because she was actually a successful artist.  Juliette and Luke Wheeler are probably the other two most successful artists at Highway 65 and they both seem to understand the artistry vs. commerce balance as well. Technically Maddie was the final straw but that's because every other artist on the label, all of whom seem to be just getting off the ground commercially, are shown to struggle with it.  Even Deacon was exasperating when Rayna was writing her album before she died.  Will, after being with Zach, probably understands it a bit better but not enough to bridge the gap. 

Technically, Zach pulling out will lead to the label folding but making H65 profitable has always been his goal and the music business is not such that simply putting out albums can really do that--especially given the types of artists we've seen H65 have.  But without Zach, the label would have likely folded sooner.  If not before Rayna died, definitely after.

 

I understand everything you say.  In the real world, I've dealt with the same.  But I don't think Zach's motives were just to make the label profitable, although surely he would not have wanted it to tank.  I think his motives go far beyond that, although I'm not completely sure we understand all of them.  He had a fascination with Rayna, that was clear, and it could have been genuine and it could have been creepy.  I think it may have been some of both.  But I feel like, at least in the business world, Zach has never been told no.  He's never had to deal with people pushing back.  He had his own business, one that he admittedly knows much more about than the music business, and he was the boss.  In the Highway 65 world, he's not the boss.  He's the money provider, but not in charge.  Rayna was in charge and now Deacon is in charge.

Rayna had a different way about her than Deacon, but she was not savvy in the business world.  Deacon is trying to be true to her vision and Zach doesn't like it.  I think he thought he'd have more influence and maybe more power in this post-Rayna era and he was not expecting Deacon to say no.  I don't think he was just frustrated, although I get that he was probably frustrated that Deacon didn't see things his way.  I've also worked with people who displayed the kind of "I'm going to destroy you" mentality in the business world too and that's not going to lead to anything good.

And is Luke actually still with the label?  I'm not sure it was ever addressed, but Deacon didn't get his perspective when he had the artists' meeting.  He only mentioned Juliette and Hallie not being there.  If Luke were a Highway 65 artist, we probably wouldn't be having this kind of problem.

[Irlandesa]

34 minutes ago, piratewench said:

He had his own business, one that he admittedly knows much more about than the music business, and he was the boss.  In the Highway 65 world, he's not the boss.  He's the money provider, but not in charge.  Rayna was in charge and now Deacon is in charge.

Right but as you said, Rayna wasn't very good at business.  That's why Zach was on as something other than a silent partner.  Deacon is perhaps even worse than Rayna.   Zach might know more about what earned him his billions than he knows about the music business but what he is doing is 100% in line with how to earn profits for those in the music business in the age of of iTunes and Pandora. 

34 minutes ago, piratewench said:

I've also worked with people who displayed the kind of "I'm going to destroy you" mentality in the business world too and that's not going to lead to anything good.

Certainly not for Highway 65. 

34 minutes ago, piratewench said:

And is Luke actually still with the label?  I'm not sure it was ever addressed, but Deacon didn't get his perspective when he had the artists' meeting.  He only mentioned Juliette and Hallie not being there.  If Luke were a Highway 65 artist, we probably wouldn't be having this kind of problem.

Just like Teddy, out of sight, out of mind.  They bought his label.  In order for it to be worth what they paid for it, I imagine Luke Wheeler's next x number of albums would be part of any contract.  I don't see why having Luke would mean they wouldn't have this kind of problem.  One established artist isn't going to be enough to sustain the fledgling artists on this label.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Cyranetta]

Besides the fact that I just don't care for Maddie's voice or song styling, what bugs me is that all the time given to her singing takes away from the stronger singers like Deacon, Juliette or Avery, Have they had an episode this year where one of the songs caught fire on iTunes? That commercial shoot seemed to go on forever.

[tennisgurl]

Personally, I hope that Teddy gets out of prison soon, and he and Deacon decide to raise the girls together, and we end up in a wacky My Two Dads scenario, where Deacon and Teddy have to learn to get along for the girls sake, and hijinks ensue. I like that Daphne is feeling closer to Deacon, and I totally buy that he loves Daphne and that they've grown closer due to Rayna's death, but I do get annoyed that they seem to be erasing Teddy's importance to the girls lives. Teddy was certainly not the best guy by ANY stretch of the imagination, but he always loved his daughters, including Maddie, even when he knew she wasn't his biological child. Its also a lost story opportunity, as the idea of Daphne feeling like the ugly step sister with Deacon and Maddie could be an interesting story, even if that's clearly not the case.

[piratewench]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Right but as you said, Rayna wasn't very good at business.  That's why Zach was on as something other than a silent partner.  Deacon is perhaps even worse than Rayna.   Zach might know more about what earned him his billions than he knows about the music business but what he is doing is 100% in line with how to earn profits for those in the music business in the age of of iTunes and Pandora. 

 

Just like Teddy, out of sight, out of mind.  They bought his label.  In order for it to be worth what they paid for it, I imagine Luke Wheeler's next x number of albums would be part of any contract.  I don't see why having Luke would mean they wouldn't have this kind of problem.  One established artist isn't going to be enough to sustain the fledgling artists on this label.

I still don't see Zach as just being "frustrated" about someone not listening to him.  There was a whole lot more to it than that.  But we'll just see it differently.

And considering Luke was the "King of Country Music", at least in this world, I absolutely think that someone of his stature and earning power would be a powerful money engine for Highway 65.  (And wasn't he the king of branding?)  Especially when combined with their other established artist, Juliette Barnes, in spite of her failed gospel album.  And just because they bought his label doesn't mean he came along with the deal.  He may have worked out some sort of side deal.  In any case, he was not contacted when Deacon was weighing his decision and I would assume his input would be wanted.

[Irlandesa]

2 minutes ago, piratewench said:

And considering Luke was the "King of Country Music", at least in this world, I absolutely think that someone of his stature and earning power would be a powerful money engine for Highway 65.

Sure.  But when you get that kind of earning power, you also earn the right to negotiate a bigger piece of the pie and rights of refusal. Launching artists is expensive.  I'm not saying he wouldn't help. Just that it wouldn't solve the issues.

[piratewench]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Sure.  But when you get that kind of earning power, you also earn the right to negotiate a bigger piece of the pie and rights of refusal. Launching artists is expensive.  I'm not saying he wouldn't help. Just that it wouldn't solve the issues.

Whatever.  We're just not going to see eye to eye on this and that's okay.

[KaveDweller]

7 hours ago, piratewench said:

I think it's kind of unfair to blame Maddie for the possible downfall of Highway 65.  The lyric thing may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but I think the core of it is that Rayna didn't have a very sustainable business model in the first place and then Zach came in and, with his money, wanted to run things.  He didn't try that as much with Rayna - although the British director Scarlett hooked up with was his idea and he got Rayna to stay out of it.  Zach is at the root of this and he showed his true colors with his petulant tantrums with Deacon.

I don't really blame Maddie at all. After she realized Zach would pull out, she said she would just go ahead and change the line, but Deacon and everyone told her not to.

But Highway 65 was a mess from the beginning, otherwise Zach would never have been brought in in the first place. Rayna wanted to have a place for artists, but didn't really pay attention to the business. She kept picking artists who couldn't keep recording music. Scarlett's first attempt, that woman who shot her abusive ex, and then Layla. I don't even remember why Layla is no longer recording (other than them cutting down the cast), but she's out.  Getting picked to be on Rayna's label was like a death sentence for someone's career.

3 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Just like Teddy, out of sight, out of mind.  They bought his label.  In order for it to be worth what they paid for it, I imagine Luke Wheeler's next x number of albums would be part of any contract.  I don't see why having Luke would mean they wouldn't have this kind of problem.  One established artist isn't going to be enough to sustain the fledgling artists on this label.

Didn't Luke want to slow down with his music or something? That's why he was selling the label. He just wanted to perform on occasion and not have to stress about anything else.

[ahpny]

Quote

I thought it was strange that "Mr. Budweiser" Will sat there mute during the meeting -- seemed he enjoyed his commercial shoot and the positive attention that came with it. It worked exactly as designed in his case -- seems he would have have something to say about that, but he said nothing.

All true, but as Zach's secret boyfriend, Will is not in a position to defend Zach or pile on with the criticism to "support" the HW65 crowd. Either defending or criticizing Zach risks problems for Will. Defend Zach now, and his HW65 friends won't take it well when their relationship become known - and probably results in ending Will's relationship with most of them. Trash him now and, if an when Zach learns of Will's comments, Zach gets super pissed and accuses Will of conspiring with his opponents and being disloyal. Silence was understandable, though regrettable. Indeed, Will was clearly troubled and seems to know this isn't going to end well for him however it does end.  

[dbell1]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but Zach's comment about the furniture commercial "fiasco" was really out of line. They're dealing with enraged shipper fans, the director pulls out a crib, not a table to assemble, and then she has a freaking miscarriage! It's not really their fault the commercial was unusable, Mr. Natural Organic Synergy. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 10:53 AM, Moxie Cat said:

Aren't there lots of other people who work at Highway 65 too? So they're all going to lose their jobs too because Maddie wouldn't change a line - which was in her contract. Good going, artistes.

A more adult solution would have been for Maddie, or maybe her minder Alyssa or apparently nonexistent manager, to say, "I'm not comfortable with that new lyric, but I'm open to making a change - let's come up with something we can both live with." 

To shut down the company, ruin these artists' progress, and lose all these jobs all because of Maddie's "principles" is ridiculous. It reminds me of plots in later seasons of 90210, where main characters (usually David) would often lose opportunities because of someone else's holier-than-thou morals (usually Donna).

just had to note (a) love your name; and (b) awesome 90210 reference.

thinking the same thing--it was weird to me that Deacon initially tells everybody "here is the problem" and everybody is Team Artist--and then tells them "Highway 65 will be broke" as step 2. And nobody says "on second thought, maybe we go with this for now"

Other thought--I liked Deacon performing at the Opry but was distracted by the sweater vest. Can't see him wearing that.

On the positive side--I enjoyed the bit where Jessie pulls out her book and locks Deacon out of the car. It was unrealistic and hauling him away when he had stuff to do would be bad in real life. But I found the moment humorous in the show.

[Data Cat]

19 hours ago, ahpny said:

All true, but as Zach's secret boyfriend, Will is not in a position to defend Zach or pile on with the criticism to "support" the HW65 crowd. Either defending or criticizing Zach risks problems for Will. Defend Zach now, and his HW65 friends won't take it well when their relationship become known - and probably results in ending Will's relationship with most of them. Trash him now and, if an when Zach learns of Will's comments, Zach gets super pissed and accuses Will of conspiring with his opponents and being disloyal. Silence was understandable, though regrettable. Indeed, Will was clearly troubled and seems to know this isn't going to end well for him however it does end.  

Their relationship is a secret? It seems odd that no one in Nashville would know. Didn't that fashion designer who came onto Will know about him and Zach?

[seacliffsal]

I couldn't believe how long they had Alyssa "sing."  At first, the way Maddy looked at her and stuff I thought 'oh, she's going to be amazing and another new 'star' will be born..."  But, nope-she wasn't good and it went on for far too long.  Then, when we get to the Opry and Deacon, we get bits of songs; if this is supposed to be a huge deal, then maybe we should have heard more from him and less from Alyssa.  Add to that, I have no idea why the people at that gathering even knew her name and why they were even chanting for her to sing.

I wish the Highway 65 label would just fade away.  However, I have no idea why Zach is so vested in it when he has all of his Silicon Valley investments.  Go back to San Jose.

And, PLEASE, no more teen angst.  I know that Daphne was getting ready to go back into angst mode, but maybe Deacon can introduce them to his "friend" and we can end that drama before it even begins.  Oh, and Jessie?  She is just way too involved in Deacon's life for only knowing him a couple of weeks (and vice versa quite frankly).  I also don't like the "I know what you need better than you know" plotline that many shows pull out and is what they are doing with her character.

[piratewench]

2 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

Other thought--I liked Deacon performing at the Opry but was distracted by the sweater vest. Can't see him wearing that.

Actually, I love Deacon (and Chip) in a vest, especially with a white shirt.  I think it's a hot look on him.  And I'm pretty sure that wasn't a sweater vest.  It was a vest, yes, but not sweater.  lol

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, Data Cat said:

Their relationship is a secret? It seems odd that no one in Nashville would know. Didn't that fashion designer who came onto Will know about him and Zach?

I don't think it's a secret, didn't we see Will talking to Gunner or Avery about it? But didn't they break up anyway?

[RedbirdNelly]

1 hour ago, piratewench said:

Actually, I love Deacon (and Chip) in a vest, especially with a white shirt.  I think it's a hot look on him.  And I'm pretty sure that wasn't a sweater vest.  It was a vest, yes, but not sweater.  lol

maybe-I just saw sweater vest! :)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Rose and Thorn - Avery & Gunnar:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

NashChat with Bobby Bones:

[Syd]

On 8/4/2017 at 0:16 AM, TVbitch said:

Can Deacon's back up singer with the black fringe jacket be a character. He looked fun. Maybe he and Will could have some fun.

LOL. We were fascinated by him in my household.

[seewillrun]

16 hours ago, Syd said:

LOL. We were fascinated by him in my household.

Me, too.  I assumed the back up singers, members of the band, and the staff in the Grand Ole Opry scenes were the real people who have those jobs.  Does anyone know if that's right?

I wouldn't mind seeing characters like that.. people whose names and faces we might not recognize, but who make a living working in music. 

[J-Man]

On 8/1/2017 at 10:28 PM, Cranberry said:

Juliette shoots a mascara commercial but takes issue with the direction.

JULIETTE shot a mascara commercial too? How did I miss this?

[piratewench]

19 minutes ago, J-Man said:

JULIETTE shot a mascara commercial too? How did I miss this?

You didn't.  She didn't.

[ladle]

Why couldn't we get fun scenes of Gunnar and Avery out on the road together without this irritating tour manager/roadie/whatever-she-is (Seriously, when did she get introduced?  I clearly missed something.)  Also, what about the last episode in which Juliette was doing fine and even encouraging Avery to remain out on the road?  Now we're back to square one again?  It's like the two episodes were written by different writers who neglected to speak to each other. 
 

Maybe it's because I'm not an artist, but I just couldn't get too worked up over the idea of changing a few lyrics.  Zach's an ass, though.  
 

I really do not like Jessie.  Like actively, actively do not like her.  I can't even put my finger on why.  I don't even think it's because she's the show's replacement for Rayna.  
 

I'm holding off on watching the next episode, because I really can't stomach the idea of more Scarlett and Gunnar.  What on earth has Gunnar done to make Scarlett "not trust" him?  What in the actual...???  Speaking of writers not communicating with each other.

 

Finally, for as grating as this show can be, I do appreciate that we haven't seen Deacon fall off the wagon again since Rayna's death.  We haven't even seen any scenes of him staring at whiskey bottles set to the theme of angry guitar riffs.  That would have been predictable and annoying as hell. 

[ladle]

On 8/4/2017 at 8:06 PM, KaveDweller said:

I don't like it either. I usually can't understand what her lyrics are. I didn't used to feel that way, so I think she must have changed something about her singing style. 

Party of three!  Maddie's singing style seems so affected, and I can't make out what she's saying either.  I don't have the expertise to know if she's a good singer or not, but I do think she needs to enunciate a whole lot better.  Also, I'd be interested in hearing more of Daphne's singing.

But I actually do see why it's such a big deal that Juliette took "Maddie's" song.  It's not the song-taking necessarily (which I agree wasn't exactly saintly but also wasn't that awful, per se) but the fact that Juliette had placed herself in a big sister/mentor role to Maddie.  Maddie/Juliette's special relationship has actually been one of the few constants on this scattered series.  I imagine a girl like Maddie, who has just lost her superstar mom and who is an up-and-comer in the music industry herself, has very few people in her life she can trust to have her best interests at heart.  For me it's really about the fact that Juliette would do something so shady, given the nature of their relationship.  If she had done something like that to Scarlett, I'd say everyone should get over it (Okay, let's be honest, if she'd done that to Scarlett I'd probably be cheering.  Because, ugh: Scarlett.)  Further, everything about Juliette's behavior in this matter suggests that she realized just how wrong it was. 

That said, I do tire of plotlines in which Juliette does stupid shit and then apologizes tearfully for it.  Like, enough with that, show. 

[JennMatMusic33]

On 8/3/2017 at 10:51 PM, slasherboy said:

Am I the only one who doesn't like Maddie's singing.  Like, at all?  Poo.

Nope, you are not the only one. I went to college for music, have sang in multiple venues, have had ear and vocal training, and think her voice would benefit from some coaching if she isn't already doing that. She doesn't articulate and has this airy, breathy quality that is unpleasant to listen to. I don't mind it as much when she is singing with her sister, but on her own...

I think she does have some bare bones talent, so if the actress wants to sing after Nashville has bit the dust, she's going to need to work on it.