S04.E06: Our Man in New York

[OtterMommy]

TBD

[ganesh]

No one yet? I quite enjoyed this one. I liked the end which was expected but still cool. 

[tabloidlover]

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode!

[ganesh]

I just love that Arnold is such a whiny bitch.

[abbyzenn]

Wow - there were so many plots and counterplots this episode.   I have a hard time deciding who is my least favorite character.  Arnold and his wife deserve each other.  Curious to see what Mary Woodhull will do with her new info.  Still don't understand why she's at the camp rather than her house.

[EyewatchTV211]

4 hours ago, abbyzenn said:

Wow - there were so many plots and counterplots this episode.   I have a hard time deciding who is my least favorite character.  Arnold and his wife deserve each other.  Curious to see what Mary Woodhull will do with her new info.  Still don't understand why she's at the camp rather than her house.

Many have asked the same question, but it makes sense to me. They're probably afraid Simcoe will send people to kill her and their son now that he knows Abe is Culper, It's certainly a reasonable assumption considering show-Simcoe's history.

[Dowel Jones]

With all the scheming, and fornicating and adulterating, and betraying and killing, it's hard to believe anybody had time around there  for revolting.

[LittleIggy]

Simcoe gets his freak on via bondage. Ugh, something I didn't need to know.

Loved Hewlett dumping the body into the cart.

[Kata01]

I find this season to be uneven. Hewlett's return is most welcome and his story quite plausible. Most implausible? Peggy Arnold conspiring with the ring against her husband. I mean, really!?

The direction the writers are taking with Simcoe is bizarre to me at this point. I blanked out during his scene with the prostitute. I could care less about his psyche, to be honest.

While Mary's presence in the camp is believable to me, I find her to be truly grating on the nerves. I would not be surprised next week if she barged in on Washington's meeting with his generals waving a copy of the Gazette and screechingly demanding to know what news of her husband. Give it a rest already, Mary. Abe placed himself on this mission. He will either live or he will die. Townsend is not beholden to place ads informing you in code whether or not Abe is changing his underwear every morning. She is placing everyone, including herself and her son, in danger with her antics. No matter how often this is kindly explained to her - she ignores and continues the barging/shrieking. 

I agree with those on this board that there is too much going on plot-wise. Adding this unknown character to the Arnold plot feels almost unnecessary. I wish they would keep the story simple and less convoluted. 

[orza]

At this point the only way I can see for them to reconcile evil, deranged Simcoe with the historical figure is for Abe and Hewlett kill Simcoe, Hewlett assumes his identity, hightails it to Canada where he goes on to do great things and become the national hero we know. That would be a neat twist.

[EyewatchTV211]

1 hour ago, Kata01 said:

I find this season to be uneven. Hewlett's return is most welcome and his story quite plausible. Most implausible? Peggy Arnold conspiring with the ring against her husband. I mean, really!?

The direction the writers are taking with Simcoe is bizarre to me at this point. I blanked out during his scene with the prostitute. I could care less about his psyche, to be honest.

While Mary's presence in the camp is believable to me, I find her to be truly grating on the nerves. I would not be surprised next week if she barged in on Washington's meeting with his generals waving a copy of the Gazette and screechingly demanding to know what news of her husband. Give it a rest already, Mary. Abe placed himself on this mission. He will either live or he will die. Townsend is not beholden to place ads informing you in code whether or not Abe is changing his underwear every morning. She is placing everyone, including herself and her son, in danger with her antics. No matter how often this is kindly explained to her - she ignores and continues the barging/shrieking. 

I agree with those on this board that there is too much going on plot-wise. Adding this unknown character to the Arnold plot feels almost unnecessary. I wish they would keep the story simple and less convoluted. 

I guess the show is trying to keep some historical accuracy, because the new unknown character is the man who truly was assigned to the task of kidnapping Arnold. Someone here actually mentioned his name in an earlier episode thread before he turned up on the show, assuming that Abe was just taking on his storyline.

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, Kata01 said:

Most implausible? Peggy Arnold conspiring with the ring against her husband. I mean, really!?

Maybe she has delusions of grandeur and wants to play the double agent, revealing the plot to the British and trading up from Benedict. 

[orza]

After the latest humiliation, Peggy just wants Arnold out of her life. It's personal for her, not political. Working with Culper is just a means to an end. The way she touched her stomach suggested she was thinking that she and her child would be better off if she were a widow.

[tallykat]

It seems the idea was to have Mary fall in with Ann Bates (Mrs. Barnes) which necessitated her coming to camp with Thomas. It made little sense for her to leave Whitehall. I think I remember an off-handed comment that for whatever reason she would be safer in the American camp--the threat of Simcoe knowing about Culper or should anything go wrong when Abe was in New York.

Funniest scene: Arnold and Woodhull and Hewitt with Hewitt saying: "We will find the CULP-able party and..." I can't remember the whole thing, but he emphasized the CULPer part three times and Abe's eyes are like saucers and Arnold is like: "Well, on with it, then."  Also loved the two of them taking out the kidnappers and letting them think it was just Hewlett.

Fastest pregnancy around: Peggy Shippen Arnold.  Quite the baby bump she's got going since the party last week. 

I thought our kids learned their letters early.  How old is Thomas? He's grown up some, but doesn't look more than 4 years old. It would have been enough for him to learn T-h-o-m-a-s. Whose idea was it to teach him Woodhull?  I thought Thomas would have spilled the beans verbally. "My name is Thomas Woodhull.  I live at Whitehall. Papa is a magistrate." Okay, maybe that last one would be a little hard to say, but I'm sure his momma taught him to pronounce it correctly.

I think it's cute that Ben calls Mary "Mrs. Woodhull." I guess he really doesn't know her that well and therefore doesn't speak familiarly with her.

Oh, and it was good to see that they actually are fighting a war, if only to see that there was an enemy camp. Did they really just park themselves in the woods for months on end? You could at least mention a battle or two. Thank goodness the French showed up to get them back on track.  "Mais, oui, New York would be a nice to have, but let's go get busy in the South. " 

Edited July 18, 2017 by tallykat

[Kata01]

1 hour ago, orza said:

After the latest humiliation, Peggy just wants Arnold out of her life. It's personal for her, not political. 

It's always been personal for her, hasn't it? She began a relationship with Arnold at the instigation of Andre. She manipulated, maneuvered, schemed and plotted Arnold for Andre from the get-go. He now knows who and what she is. As far as I'm concerned, she made her own bed. 

[Moxie Cat]

At this rate, Townsend is going to have a heart attack by the end of the season. Every week, something scares the crap out of him, poor guy.

BTW, the actor who played his father, John Billingsley (who's been in everything), showed up on Twin Peaks this week.

I loved the scene between Abe and Hewlett. They've done a great job giving Hewlett depth and making the audience (at least me) do a 180 on him. I love the upthread idea that he assumes Simcoe's identity and founds Canada, but I think that the scene with the prostitute, and Simcoe's monologue about his childhood earlier, are leading the character to have some kind of moral turnabout by the finale. I doubt that will be satisfying, but I can't see how Simcoe, as he is, survives this show AND it's a satisfying conclusion.

And Abe - maybe you shouldn't offer up the family home without discussing it with your wife first.

Question: wouldn't Washington have known some French?

[EyewatchTV211]

2 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

At this rate, Townsend is going to have a heart attack by the end of the season. Every week, something scares the crap out of him, poor guy.

BTW, the actor who played his father, John Billingsley (who's been in everything), showed up on Twin Peaks this week.

I loved the scene between Abe and Hewlett. They've done a great job giving Hewlett depth and making the audience (at least me) do a 180 on him. I love the upthread idea that he assumes Simcoe's identity and founds Canada, but I think that the scene with the prostitute, and Simcoe's monologue about his childhood earlier, are leading the character to have some kind of moral turnabout by the finale. I doubt that will be satisfying, but I can't see how Simcoe, as he is, survives this show AND it's a satisfying conclusion.

And Abe - maybe you shouldn't offer up the family home without discussing it with your wife first.

Question: wouldn't Washington have known some French?

[Kabota]

I found Peggy going in with the kidnapping plot bizarre, too, but I’m probably letting knowledge of historical Peggy influence me, here. For TV!Peggy, I guess it isn’t all that farfetched, considering, but still. I just have to keep reminding myself that, though they share names with historical persons, the characters of Peggy, Abe, Anna, Simcoe, etc. are, for all intents and purposes, fictional. 

Also, for all their talk a couple years back of humanizing Arnold, the writers spent about an episode and a half before sending him on his series-long downward spiral, and it looks like he’s being framed as our ultimate villain, now that we have the Great! Simcoe! Redemption! Arc! in full swing. I, too, can't imagine it being a satisfactory resolution to years and seasons of no-remorse manipulation and criminality. It’s so bizarre to see where the writers choose to adhere to the historical record and where they choose to veer. I’m fully expecting Hewlett and Anna to start anew…but then, again, fictional characters.

Townsend, though, is, without a doubt, the most successfully written of the historical characters. They've kept his story tight, and his personality totally in line with what's recorded. His motives, manners, and reactions ring true, and are consistent but evolving. By it's nature, his situation makes for natural tension. I applaud this characterization. 

And the ridiculous thing about Mary’s and Ben’s posturing, is that he really has nothing to tell her, anyway. Outside of Champe, which is obviously off limits knowledge, she knows as much as he does. Mary knows Abe went to sign up in NYC. She knows he’s supposed to get intel on Arnold. She knows his main target is Simcoe — in fact, she knows for sure that Simcoe's death comes before anything Arnold for Abe, no matter what he and Ben agreed to. (Ben should know this, but…) And nobody, as far as we know, has gone to retrieve the intel, so, Ben's and Mary’s bickering is just annoying and pointless, tbh. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Kabota

[LittleIggy]

"Count me in!" doesn't sound like an 18th century expression.

[GGMeade]

I am so happy that Hewlett is back! Even a sad/jaded Hewlett is better than no Hewlett. I love how he's working with Abe to get Simcoe in exchange for Whitehall. I don't think Abe ever cared about Whitehall, so it makes sense that he would barter that for Hewlett's secrecy. I am really hoping for a Hewlett/Anna happy ending -where they live happily ever after in Whitehall. 

I still feel bad for Caleb, dealing with his PTSD. 

Is anyone actually surprised that Simcoe gets off on being tortured? I'm not.

Peggy is 100% on team Peggy. She must know that she is still young and beautiful enough to snag any man/general she wants. If the tides turn against the British then why not get rid of Benedict and look for the next best thing? Especially after he's made it "abundantly" clear that she was to do her wifely duties and nothing else. Now that Peggy knows something is up- Abigail and Cicero are in danger, I hope Akinbode swoops in to save them- and whisks them off to Canada. Where ironically, the real Simcoe- when he was Lt. Governor of Upper Canada outlawed slavery. 

[blackwing]

Things I REALLY didn't need to see:

1) Shirtless Simcoe

2) Simcoe getting his freak on

Yuck.

[Haleth]

Too much Simcoe.  Too much Peggy.  

Loved the scene with Abe and Hewlett after fighting the kidnapper.  Burn Gorman really elevates the writing.  Poor guy just wants his books and telescope and a nice cup of tea.  I can relate.

[Kabota]

It's just occurring to me that between this episode and the last one, Caleb and Townsend must've had an intel exchange, what with the Champe mission being launched and the "French raspberry brandy" advertisement posting. It would've been his first since his capture, and considering his mental and physical state -- seems like that might have been something worth mentioning?

[Kata01]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Too much Simcoe.  Too much Peggy.  

Loved the scene with Abe and Hewlett after fighting the kidnapper.  Burn Gorman really elevates the writing.  Poor guy just wants his books and telescope and a nice cup of tea.  I can relate.

And might I add, not enough Townsend! 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Kata01

[blackwing]

Can someone refresh my memory as to exactly what is going on with Selah Strong?  He got captured in Season 1, Anna had an affair with Abe.  Did they ever think he was dead at one point, or am I misremembering?  Someone went to ransom him, he got out.  We didn't see him for two seasons, and now he's a Congressman from New York working in Philadelphia.  Anna seems to have moved on from Abe and seems like she wants Ben, although that could just be the perception of those low rent camp follower women.

Selah is aware of her infidelity, right?  I know they aren't divorced but they are clearly separated.  He said that he had less interest in her, so it seems like he just doesn't care that much anymore if she sleeps around?

[Kabota]

Selah was sent to the Jersey prison ship as punishment for his fight with Captain Joyce, etc. in the tavern during the pilot episode. He was, in the guise of Samuel Tallmadge, sprung from the Jersey by Robert Rogers during the orchestrated prisoner exchange meant to snare Ben. After a brief stint with the troops, when he watched his wife “jump ship” back to Setauket, he apparently joined the Continental Congress. I believe it's been mentioned in the show a couple of times, in passing, that he was in Philly. A couple of the shows writers had mentioned him as a congressman, online, as well, I think.

Whether Selah knows officially of Anna's affair with Abe, I couldn’t say. He definitely seemed to know of their past, given his looks and responses to them during the pilot. Also, no idea if he knows of the Hewlett marriage plot. 

No basis to a Ben/Anna ship besides letting camp scuttlebutt ride, so she has a cover for her work with the ring. I'm sure the writers found this a hilarious inside joke, considering there's nary a main character on the show who hasn't been crushing on Anna at some point. And they can't seem to stop bringing it up every, single episode. (Also, bitterly disappointed that this faux fling and his power struggle with Mary seem to be the extent of Ben's characterization this season.)

Selah wasn’t saying his interest in Anna was waning. He meant that he was going to put her interests and priorities above what he wanted — which was to be reunited as husband and wife.

Whether this is to pave the way for a reconciliation for Anna with Selah or Hewlett, I guess we’ve got the next four episodes to wait that one out. But, one way or the other, she is still Selah’s wife, at this point, which appears to be something the writers (and many fans) had seemed to forget for the past two seasons. Abe has always received  a lot of hate for cheating on Mary. I wonder why the audience seems to have responded to Anna's infidelity somewhat differently, even seeming to really get behind the Anna/Hewlett ship?

Edited July 20, 2017 by Kabota

[tallykat]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by tallykat
What Kabota said.

[millennium]

As of this episode they should change the name of the show from "Turn" to "Twist."

[LilJen]

On 7/20/2017 at 7:44 AM, Haleth said:

Too much Simcoe.  Too much Peggy.  

Loved the scene with Abe and Hewlett after fighting the kidnapper.  Burn Gorman really elevates the writing.  Poor guy just wants his books and telescope and a nice cup of tea.  I can relate.

I was sad to see Hewlett resigned to being alone. He should at least have someone  to Copernicus cosplay with.

and yeah, shirtless Simcoe was ugh. Was nobody else rooting for the prostitute to actually kill him? Or am I the only horrible person here?