S03.E03: Getting To The Bottom Of It

[Christina87]

I wonder if Dr. Christine is super enthusiastic about being on TV. That's the vibe she gave me, so I think Jazz needs to be extra careful. Surgeons might want their fifteen minutes of fame and suck up to her, when in reality they may not be the best fit. I totally think that first doctor was set up by TLC, knowing jazz would dislike him, to keep her from latching onto the first surgeon available, and to create conflict. I think she needs to be very careful that she doesn't end up with a bubbly trans surgeon who wants her own reality show about being trans herself and doing surgeries for others. Just something to think about!

[SnarkyMcSnarkerson]

On 7/8/2017 at 5:35 PM, Impatient said:

As to the surgery Jazz is going to have done, she seems to have no understanding as to what is going to be done via this surgery.  For example when discussing dilation, she always says it is to create "depth".  But that is not the case at all.  Creating a fake vagina creates an unendingly open wound.  That has to be kept open or it will close up and heal over.  So Dilation is something she will have to do for the rest of her life.  Furthermore, there are odd bacterial infections that arise in these neovaginas (for lack of a better term) that must be prevented by frequent douching and hypercleanliness.  There are, incredibly enough, MANY Youtube videos that show a transgender woman's vagina and labia up close.  And the dilation process is presented and none of it should be a surprise.  So it strikes me as strange that Jazz is not more fully informed, or if she is, is faking ignorance on the show. 

This paragraph (bolding mine) contained more new information to me about MTF transitions than I've learned in quite some time. Thank you!

Perhaps you'll know the answer to something I've been wondering: how much do these neovaginas stretch? If the dilating isn't to keep it stretched, but rather to keep the vaginal opening open, are trans women more susceptible to tearing during intercourse? Like, is there a size limit on their partner? Or does it just fit what it fits and anything too big just won't go in - no injury needed?

[Impatient]

That is  great point Christina 87 and one i hadn't even thuoght about.  Yes, I think they'd need to be careful abut Dr McGowin.

You knw, I looled Dr. Reed up on the internet and it turns out he has an entire transgender hospital he built from scratch.  It is called something like the Reed center for Transgender Surgery.  So I think he was their homegrown expert.  It was surprising to me that he hadn't heard of those hormone blockers, but it is airly new to use them and frankly, I have to woner if most doctors aren't recmmending against them for exactly this reason:  no tissue to do vaginoplasty with and no libido.  

It'll be interesting to see what happens now.  I think this next episode will be all about the cis blond boy she finds on the speed dating in the dark thing she goes on.  

[Caracoa1]

I didn't realize that with Jazz being biologically male that her body will recognize her vaginoplasty as an open wound and try to close up...that is scary...she will always have to deal with these type of problems.

[Christina87]

I know! It makes me grateful to have been born a woman. I guess technically our bodies recognize even piercings as open wounds, but keeping a piercing open is much easier...and less embarrassing...

[Muffyn]

1 hour ago, Caracoa1 said:

I didn't realize that with Jazz being biologically male that her body will recognize her vaginoplasty as an open wound and try to close up...that is scary...she will always have to deal with these type of problems.

I am going to continue the discussion of vaginoplasty in the Questions and Educational Links thread. 

[msrachelj]

14 hours ago, Caracoa1 said:

I didn't realize that with Jazz being biologically male that her body will recognize her vaginoplasty as an open wound and try to close up...that is scary...she will always have to deal with these type of problems.

omg. is this true, does anyone know?

[doodlebug]

25 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

omg. is this true, does anyone know?

No, it is not true.  The problem is that the vaginoplasty is a plastic surgery procedure and a new organ (the vagina) is being created out of tissue that was not originally meant for that purpose.  Her neovagina (medical term for surgically created vagina, applicable to either man or woman who has this procedure) will never have the blood flow or lymphatic drainage, etc that natural vaginas have.  It will always be prone to scarring which can cause it to narrow and become unusable for intercourse.  Infection or necrosis of tissue due to the lack of circulation will always be a risk.  It has nothing to do with Jazz' chromosomal makeup, except, of course, she will need estrogen supplements since she doesn't have ovaries and estrogen does function to keep the vaginal tissues pliable and moist to make coitus possible and comfortable.  Lots of postmenopausal women have vaginal issues due to lack of estrogen, too.

That being said, vaginoplasty is a very complex procedure and requires a lot of effort from the patient in order to get the best possible result.  Amongst other things, since it appears Jazz is not ready to be sexually active anytime in the near future; she is going to have to be very careful and do ongoing maintenance of her neovagina using vaginal dilators regularly until such time as she is ready to have regular intercourse.  That's another reason why she should perhaps consider waiting, many surgeons will counsel their patients to delay the surgery until they at ready to be sexually active.  The fact that Jazz has yet to go through puberty and seems very reluctant to even consider it, makes it even more problematic as the hormones involved, particularly testosterone, do help with libido and it becomes an ongoing issue as she is perhaps not going to be very interested in becoming sexually active without testosterone's effects on libido that are part and parcel of puberty in both sexes.  While I don't know Jazz personally, my impression is, that, like a lot of kids, she doesn't have a real sense of just how difficult this ongoing care is going to be and I wonder if she has the maturity and drive to actually do what she needs to do to not only create a functional vagina but also maintain it.  She seems to think it will be a quick fix and that is far from the truth,

If there is one thing that this show does demonstrate; it is the tremendous complexity of human sexuality and how very many factors contribute to sexual response in us.

Edited July 11, 2017 by doodlebug

[Muffyn]

Jazz does seem to not fully understand the work required post surgery of this nature.  Even though she is young and healthy, the healing process is slow and painful.  It takes time for scars to heal and she will need significant care during the healing period.  She seems to think she will have the surgery and immediately have a beautiful vagina.  As it is, vulvas have varied appearances.  I doubt she has enough knowledge about basic anatomy to understand the natural variations.  I know she's joking when she says she wants "America's next top vagina," but regardless it doesn't seem like she has researched to any significant level.  She is somehow both very much in the public eye and very sheltered. 

If she is really going to pursue this (not TV pursue this), the doctor will need to clearly set her expectations.  Also, her therapist would want to help with that.  Depression following major surgery is common, regardless of the type of surgery.  As is so often the case, her father seems to be the one who wants to think things through and take them slowly.  Jazz and her mother are more likely to want to jump right in.  I would hope that this early push toward surgery is more of a TV thing and that they will take their time so she can get the best possible care and be better prepared. 

[Tenarife60]

On ‎7‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 0:23 PM, surveyandprotect1 said:

Forgot to mention in first post that its very common in the reality TV business for everyone who appears on the show or has any connection to the show to sign an NDA - non disclosure agreement. This agreement would bar anyone on the show with inside knowledge of events from posting anything on social media or talking about any un-aired events to the press.

I noticed on a 'My 600 lb Life' Facebook group some of the patients have mentioned that before so they are never allowed to say too much about it.  They sign a contract to do a certain number of updates, so I assume I Am Jazz is the same way.

Edited July 12, 2017 by KittyKat94
left out a word

[radishcake]

Please remember to dicuss what happens on the show, discussion of Jazz's surgery is pertinent but keep in mind the language that you use and conform to our linked GLADD standards.

[Impatient]

How do you private message the mods?  Not seeing a link anywhere....

[TomGirl]

Just click on radishcake's name and then click on "message" (under the cartoon character's eye).

[surveyandprotect1]

21 hours ago, KittyKat94 said:

I noticed on a 'My 600 lb Life' Facebook group some of the patients have mentioned that before so they are never allowed to say too much about it.  They sign a contract to do a certain number of updates, so I assume I Am Jazz is the same way.

Yes, you are correct. Normally talent is not only contracted into an NDA but also for follow up or update style shows.

[pinkelephant3]

I get she's going through a lot...but man is jazz a whiney little bitch to everyone around her. Just because she's different doesn't give her the right to be mean to everyone around her. 

[surveyandprotect1]

I wanted to highlight something that I don't see being talked about...... the bonus scenes shown on the "More Jazz" episode 1 week following the live espisode.

 

I just watched back the 03/03 episode with the bonus scenes. 

 

The first scene in the doctors office was 1 minute 37 seconds and the second scene at the house after the consoltation was 2 minutes 44 seconds. There was a total of 3:81 minutes of running time of bonus scenes.

 

There is very little extra footage being aired. I know This is Just a Test has way more footage available to show.

[Me from ME]

Having DVR'ed the shows I find the episode titles to be a little confusing since so many include the word bottom. So I hope I am commenting in the proper thread.

Did anyone catch the scene in the airport where the parents are walking behind Jazz and Jeannette seemed to insure that she was in the camera shot by leaning out around Jazz with an oddly animated expression? I had to rewatch and wonder what was going on.

I was impressed by Jack's presentation about transgender issues. In the next episode I think he mentioned that he was a physician. Unless I heard it incorrectly he said something like "I am a physician and I know I would look for a surgeon who did the procedure frequently and did not have many complications." That explains a lot about his ability to read up and research the issues as well as being able to discuss them in an intelligent way. Jeannette and Jackie seem to be operating out of feelings rather than thoughts. It also makes it more egregious that Jazz dismissed his opinion so rudely.

And, if Jack is a physician, it explains Jackie's appearance (at least to me).  Especially if she was a physician's wife who enjoyed a high profile in the community and felt it necessary to keep up appearances with plastic surgery and over the top hair and jewelry.

[Eureka]

On 7/6/2017 at 2:43 PM, ClareWalks said:

I wasn't too annoyed with Jazz until she said she was concerned because Dr. McGinn had only done about 5 2-step vaginoplasties on patients like her before. At this point in the episode I was like "girl, you can't have it all in this scenario, and you know this." Jazz knows that her hormone blockers are kind of a new strategy and that she is part of a new generation of trans kids who are skipping puberty. Yet she balks when she hears that the doctor has not done this operation a billion times. You can either be at the cutting edge, new frontier of gender confirmation, or not. If this prospect makes you uneasy, you can wait longer to get the surgery, until the surgeons have all gotten far more experience. Another couple decades ought to do it. But of course, she wants the surgery right now, she wants the exact kind of surgery she wants, and she wants the surgeon to have practiced on thousands of other patients first. Sigh. Jazz. Come on.

That, in a nutshell, is being a teenager. That's what I was trying to say about the last episode. She doesn't care about the details, she just wants what she wants, and because of her age is naive about how the details will affect her down the line. My kids are 14 and 16 and (admittedly about less serious issues) sometimes I end up saying later when something doesn't go as they planned, "Yeah, you realized Dad and I really *do* know what we're talking about, right?"

[SongbirdHollow]

I think it was this episode where Jazz said she worried about sounding like a boy when peeing. It would NEVER occur to me that the person in the next stall might be biologically male based on the sound of their urination! I mean, yes, it's louder if he's standing up due to the distance to the target, but assuming she sits I can't imagine it sounds any different. I hope she can let that worry rest!

Also, if you're wearing leggings you should wear a long top, no matter who you are. Go for the leggings, Jazz!

[Stephanie1216]

On 7/6/2017 at 3:39 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I think a lot of times when lay people (non medical personnel) say "vagina" they mean "vulva". 

Ok, so I have had many questions answered this morning but the above comment is something I do know about and I understand because it is also a pet peeve of mine. I hate it that the stupid Kardashians say they are going to "wax their vagina" do they have any idea how stupid they sound? I could give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are just trying to be funny because people hate the word vagina. 

My sister actually has vulvarian cancer and i learned more about that than I ever wanted to. Anyway, they insisted on some reconstruction for her cosmetically even though she said she didn't want it. Then they constantly talk about sex life which embarrasses my sister (she's kinda immature for 54 years old) saying that she's never going to have sex again she didn't know why the doctors talk about it so much. 

Jazz  doctors  talkIng about her sex life is extremely normal that's s part of life and doctors take this into consideration. 

Im going to go wax my vagina now! ? 

[ClareWalks]

2 hours ago, Stephanie1216 said:

Ok, so I have had many questions answered this morning but the above comment is something I do know about and I understand because it is also a pet peeve of mine. I hate it that the stupid Kardashians say they are going to "wax their vagina" do they have any idea how stupid they sound?

Totally agree, it just sounds phenomenally ignorant. It'd be like if a man called his testicles "penises." If women must have a catch-all term for their crotch region, I humbly suggest that we call it our "junk," like guys do.

[Stephanie1216]

Our Junk ? 

Polite way "bikini area"

And everyone is too embarrassed to say it but Jazz is worried about her Colon/Vagina smelling? Most regular Vags don't smell like a bed of roses which why it's called a flower is also ironic ? 

[azsk8fan]

I think the 'weird eye' thing is hereditary - Jeannette's eyes and Griffen's eyes will look weirder than they already look as they get older too.  Those twins are far from being identical and Jazz is lucky she looks more like the dad although I can't understand how everyone in the family has such white skin and Jazz's skin is so brown (and it's NOT just a tan).