Star Trek: The Next Generation - General Discussion

[Hiyo]

It wasn't just the Prime Directive that wasn't nailed down yet...don't get wrong, this show is probably one of my top 5 favorite shows of all time, but they were making up so much of it as they went along.

[PurpleTentacle]

Yes, I know. Which is why I was surprised how well I liked many episodes. At least the characters are consistent and spot-on throughout and every decision is grounded in some kind of logical thinking. That should be the bare minimum, but it is a bar todays Star Trek often doesn't clear, sadly enough.

The Prime Directive just stood out because it is mentioned in so many episodes and it is markedly different from later seasons.

Also interesting: How season 1 ends it's pretty clear that they wanted to keep those 20th century people on board for a while. Probably to make the show more relateable, since it was struggling quite a bit in its first season. Glad they thought better off it and booted them from the ship off screen.

[PurpleTentacle]

The Outragous Okana:

The first half was rather annoying but once the other ships showed up it got pretty funny. It was obvious what was up (or maybe I had a repressed memory surfacing), but I thought what would have been way more fun, is if both captains had the same quarrel with him. If he hadn't (allegedly) just slept with the one captain's daughter, but also with the other captain's son.

Of course I know, 1980s, not going to happen. But a boy can dream of a better world, can't he?

[SVNBob]

The Outrageous Okana: aka The episode where the other guy up for the part of Riker guest stars.

4 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I thought what would have been way more fun, is if both captains had the same quarrel with him. If he hadn't (allegedly) just slept with the one captain's daughter, but also with the other captain's son.

That is one version of how they'd do the that plot today.

Another version is that they'd reverse the accusations.  Meaning, Okona would be accused of sleeping with the son and stealing the jewel from the daughter.

A third version would be exactly as originally written, but with Okona played by a woman or non-binary actor instead.

A fourth version would have the same two different accusations, but the children would be a same-sex couple.

There's lots of little tweaks that could be made to the formula to make it more interesting and inclusive.

[marinw]

13 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

The Outragous Okana:

A medicore episode, but I always liked the way Picard said "You are free to fraternize with the crew". Picard treats his crew like adults who can make their own decisions.

8 hours ago, SVNBob said:

There's lots of little tweaks that could be made to the formula to make it more interesting and inclusive.

I can see a remake of "The Perfect Mate" where the Metamorph can change gender according to whom they are near. IIRC, this was in an earlier draft of that episode.

Edited July 9, 2022 by marinw

[PurpleTentacle]

8 hours ago, SVNBob said:

There's lots of little tweaks that could be made to the formula to make it more interesting and inclusive.

True.

It's just the son squirming behind his father during the viewscreen-section, made it fun to imagine that the reason was that he too had slept with Okana. It would have been an extremely minor change, that would have fit with everything established in the episode up to that point.

-

Unnatural selection:

I did not remember that they obviously hadn't nailed down the Federation's ban on genetic engineering at this point, which in later shows is established to have been as old as the Federation, or maybe older, as a reaction to the eugenic wars in the 1990s.

Bashir must have been furios when he heard about this officially sanctioned space station full of genetically modified children and Una is rolling in her grave (if she is dead at that point, who knows how long her people live). Their genetic modifications are comparatively minor. I mean those kids had what? Telepathy, telekinesis, rapid growth, a super immune system that works outside their bodies. perfect bodies and perfect minds. That's a lot.

I question if it's a good idea to have children with bodies and hormones of adults. That just brings a bunch of problems with it, without much of a point. If their minds also developed rapidly, it would make sense. But that didn't seem to be the case. Everybody refered to them as children the whole episode and they did seem to behave like adults either.

The writers don't seem to know what antibodies are. That is not how they work inside or outside the body. They attach to a virus, gumming up the spike protein, so that the virus can't attach to the bodies cells, they don't alter the virus's genetic code. Of course these are magic "antibodies", but if they were going to completely change how they work, they should have found a different name.

I also didn't understand how fixing the genetics of doctor Pulaski made her not be infectious anymore. Infected people spreading the antibodies and them aging through the altered genetics seemed to be unrelated, as their bodies couldn't produce more of those antibodies. So I assumed they were just spreading the same ones from person to person. Was there an explaination I missed?

But overall it was still a very enjoyable episode.

Edited July 9, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[PurpleTentacle]

The measure of a man:

Still one of the all time great episodes. No notes. Except maybe that it could have been expanded into a two parter and fleshed out a bit more. But still, great.

Didn't even know it was this early in the show.

[Maverick]

 You basically have to pretend Pulaski's aging virus was from some alien planet or the facility was doing some other type of medical research and it mutated into that.   There's no way that project fit into subsequent canon.   

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

You basically have to pretend Pulaski's aging virus was from some alien planet or the facility was doing some other type of medical research and it mutated into that. 

It wasn't a virus. It was the kids magic antibodies atacking part of the human genome that is responsible for aging, since it was similar to the flu virus it was fighting.

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

There's no way that project fit into subsequent canon. 

That's abundantly clear. Better to just ignore the episode than try to fanwank it, I'd say. Way too many things that absolutely do not fit.

Still, fun to riff on it a little.

-

Contagion:

So why had Picard the tricorder destroyed, that included all the info about the gateways? Sure those could be kinda dangerous, but they could also lead to a new age of prosperity throughout the galaxy. I think that would have been worth the risk, to have that technology in the hands of the federation. Seems like the Iconians didn't do anything bad with it afterall. They didn't reason that out very well. At least they could have taken it back to the enterprise and then made the decision there.

Of course this having been 200.000 years ago and everything still working is ridiculous. Scifi and fanatasy writers always overdo it with the time scales. 2000 years would have even been a stretch and worked just as well.

-

The Royale:

Ah yes, the episode where  in the beginning (and called back to at the end) they wax philosophical, about "the fact" that Fermat's theorem hasn't been solved for 800 years, when it was actually solved in 1995, just 6 years after this episode aired. Funny stuff. 😄

Other than that, I loved this episode as a kid, so I don't know how objective I can be about it. I still think it's great.

Although there is another slight continuity problem in there. The NASA ship was from 2037. Which is smack dab in the middle of World War 3. Are we really to believe that the USA put resources into deep space exploration during a nuclear war that killed 30% of earths population?

Edited July 9, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Maverick]

 Virus, antibody, rogue T-Cell that turns you into a lemur.  Potato, potahto

 The Romulans were aware of the Iconian technology and actively trying to acquire it.   Better to lose it than have it fall into the hands of your greatest (at the time) enemy.  Same rationale for destroying the second one in DS9's To The Death.

57 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Are we really to believe that the USA put resources into deep space exploration during a nuclear war that killed 30% of earths population?

 Possibly.  If you think the planet is in danger of becoming uninhabitable one option is to see if there's anywhere else to go.

[PurpleTentacle]

47 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 The Romulans were aware of the Iconian technology and actively trying to acquire it.   Better to lose it than have it fall into the hands of your greatest (at the time) enemy.  Same rationale for destroying the second one in DS9's To The Death.

But how would the tricorder be in any danger of falling into the hands of the romulans? I'm not arguing about destroying the technology on the planet here.

48 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 Possibly.  If you think the planet is in danger of becoming uninhabitable one option is to see if there's anywhere else to go.

Eh, I still don't buy it. There is no precedent for anything like it. In war time all manufacturing and development that isn't essential to survival is going to be geared towards the war effort.

-

The Icarus factor:

Troy: "Dr. Pulaski's greatest medical skill is her empathy."

Me: "Sarcastic bitch!"

I fear the writers might have actually meant it sincerely, which is quite funny.

later:

Riker's father: "Anbo-jyutsu. The ultimate evolution in the martial arts."

Me: *spit-take*

I guess you have to have seen the visuals of their stupid armor, the stupid sticks and the stupid ring. Quite hilarious.

[SVNBob]

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

So why had Picard the tricorder destroyed, that included all the info about the gateways?

Because it also had the Iconian software that was causing all the malfunctions on both ships.  If he took it back to the Enterprise, then the whole problem could happen again.

[PurpleTentacle]

7 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Because it also had the Iconian software that was causing all the malfunctions on both ships.  If he took it back to the Enterprise, then the whole problem could happen again.

That's not the reason he gave. There was no indication the software was on the tricorder.

Also at that point the Enterprise was still infected anyway and they hadn't thought of the very basic idea of "wipe the computer and import backups" yet.

[PurpleTentacle]

Interestingly, in the samaritian snare, Picards artificial heart is refered to as a "parthenogenetic implant". Which is of course a made up term, in this context. But it suggests the heart being biological. Maybe a lab grown heart. While in a later episode it is a specific plot point that the heart is mechanical.

Now being through with season two I have to say I was surprised. It is generally considered the season where TNG "got good", to the point where "growing the beard" is the TV trope name for a show finding its footing and getting good. But I have to say I found it to be just as rocky and uneven as season one. There were still most of the same problems and incosistencies. I still very much enjoyed most of it, like I did season one, but the quality didn't go up in any way. I don't quite understand why people think season 2 was much different from season 1 in quality.

Only being 6 episodes into season three however, I have to say, so far it has been a remarkable step up from the first two seasons. Almost no comparison.

I am a bit perturbed that nobody even mentioned what happened to doctor Pulaski though. As a kid I did like Dr. Crusher more, but as an adult, I have to say Dr. Pulaski is the way more interesting character. Sad that she didn't stay. Should I look up why that change back to the previous doctor was made or is it better not to know?

[Bort]

You can look that up, but them changing back to Dr. Crusher isn’t that interesting of an answer. I think it was just that they thought she had better chemistry with the cast.

One thing about season 2 is that there was a writers strike going on in between seasons 1 and 2 and they got off to a late start, so the rockiness is mostly from having to rush scripts and play catch up.

[PurpleTentacle]

17 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

You can look that up, but them changing back to Dr. Crusher isn’t that interesting of an answer. I think it was just that they thought she had better chemistry with the cast.

I did look it up. Seems like the head writer for season 1 and 2, Maurice Hurley, hated Gates McFadden for some reason and fired her. The reason is not quite clear. There are a few rumors out there, like her complaining about the early scripts being often pretty sexist (which they were) or her hair being complicated to style. But nothing concrete.

After Hurley left, Rick Berman hired her back, probably helped by a big letter writing campaign by the fans, who liked Crusher more than Pulaski.

Overall, I'd say that was quite interesting.

Also season 3 having a new head writer might explain why the quality jumped so dramatically.

17 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

One thing about season 2 is that there was a writers strike going on in between seasons 1 and 2 and they got off to a late start, so the rockiness is mostly from having to rush scripts and play catch up.

Interesting. But it still amounts to season 2 being no better than season 1, so still not sure why it's widely considered better.

Edited July 11, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Maverick]

I have never heard season 2 described as the season where it improved.   It's always been season 3 when the writing and production values improved.  

 Pulaski was supposedly going to be a short term character to begin with but some speculated she was written out because she wasn't received well at the time due to her attitude toward the popular Data.   Crusher was brought back in part due to fan response and I believe Patrick Stewart also lobbied for her return. 

[Bort]

23 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Interesting. But it still amounts to season 2 being no better than season 1, so still not sure why it's widely considered better.

Well, there are several episodes of season 2 that are really damn good, like Measure of a Man and the Borg episode. I can’t really say that any of season 1’s episodes had that sort of impact. So yeah, I’d say that season 2 was better. Didn’t hit its stride until season 3, for sure, though.

[marinw]

9 hours ago, Maverick said:

Pulaski was supposedly going to be a short term character to begin with but some speculated she was written out because she wasn't received well at the time due to her attitude toward the popular Data.

That was reminceint of McCoy's attitude towards Spock.Other than that,  I for one liked Pulaski. She was fun, an extremly capable doctor, and a little snarky. Her flirting with Worf was odd but delighfull.

I did love how in "Samaritan Snare" she came chargeing to Picard's rescue, and Picard recation was annoyance.

[Lugal]

14 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Well, there are several episodes of season 2 that are really damn good, like Measure of a Man and the Borg episode. I can’t really say that any of season 1’s episodes had that sort of impact. So yeah, I’d say that season 2 was better. Didn’t hit its stride until season 3, for sure, though.

I think that's the general consensus, that season 2 was a vast improvement over season 1 but season 3 is when the show came into its own.

14 hours ago, Maverick said:

Pulaski was supposedly going to be a short term character to begin with but some speculated she was written out because she wasn't received well at the time due to her attitude toward the popular Data.   Crusher was brought back in part due to fan response and I believe Patrick Stewart also lobbied for her return. 

I think Pulaski was caught up in the drama of Crusher being shifted out, and she felt like they were trying to recreate McCoy.  Renegade Cut put out a video a while ago defending her and I think he makes some good points about how her attitude toward Data was exaggerated by fans.

[Hiyo]

Quote

I think that's the general consensus, that season 2 was a vast improvement over season 1 but season 3 is when the show came into its own.

Yeah, pretty much. Season 2 has episodes where we can see the potential of the show and what it can achieve. The Measure of a Man and Q Who are both great episodes, but you also have The Emissary and A Matter of Honor as solid episodes as well.

[marinw]

RIP David Warner: https://gizmodo.com/rip-david-warner-star-trek-tron-twin-peaks-the-omen-1849326425

[marinw]

Last night I saw part of “Lower Decks”. I still hate the scene where Picard enlists Sito to accompany the Cardassian operative in Cardassian Space.

“I’m not going to order you to do this poorly though out and suicidal mission, ensign. I’ll jut ask you, really nicely, in a room full of high-ranking officers so you feel like a cowardly piece of sh*t if you decline.”

I love Picard, but he was an a**hole towards Sito. Why not get a more experienced officer and have that person surgically altered to look Bajorian? I understand the need to send people on dangerous missions, but someone else may have had a better chance of survival than an ensign in desperate need of approval.

Speaking of Lower Decks, I would love to see Beckett’s reaction if her captain/mom asked her to do something similar .

[Anduin]

So I found a starship simulator! I post it here because the ship closely resembles the Roci-- er, Ent-D. I've only played through one training mission and wandered around the ship a bit, but so far it's fun enough. Press C to toggle between perspectives, hold shift to run. Steam demo.

But I can't help laughing how they call it realistic, then have ceilings high enough that Michael Jordan would have trouble reaching with a jump. Well, that's why they call it science fiction.

 

[Anduin]

So the creator of the above simulator has previous form. He worked on The Orville Interactive Fan Experience. Having never watched the Orville, I can't speak to its accuracy. Anyway, it's fun in maybe 15 minute bursts, roaming around the ship. The head-bobbing is a little too much, the music, the door sounds. But for a free product, it's damn good. Someone, please drop that into the appropriate thread or forum. And if anyone wants to try these simulators, I suggest putting them on the SSD rather than the regular old HD.

Should I try the Orville? I once heard that while the first couple of eps are pretty bad, it develops into TNG with fart jokes. I may roll my eyes, but I can handle it.

[Bort]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

Should I try the Orville? I once heard that while the first couple of eps are pretty bad, it develops into TNG with fart jokes. I may roll my eyes, but I can handle it.

I say yes. The Orville is good on its own merit. It’s a nice little alternative Star Trek. The humor is a bit more broad but it works.

[marinw]

22 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

I say yes. The Orville is good on its own merit. It’s a nice little alternative Star Trek. The humor is a bit more broad but it works.

I can't speak to the third season (didn't see it because I refuse to subsribe to Disney) , but I agree with @kariyaki on the first two seasons. 

[Anduin]

7 hours ago, kariyaki said:

I say yes. The Orville is good on its own merit. It’s a nice little alternative Star Trek. The humor is a bit more broad but it works.

Thanks!

[Anduin]

I watched the first ep of the Orville. Not bad, though some of the humour was a little rough. Hey, Kassidy Yates! And Mr Avasarala! IMBD says that that Fred Johnson shows up at some point. Good space opera actors. And from the side, Victor Garber reminds me of Odo. The ship itself kind of looks like the Andromeda. However, the effects aren't great. Is that just not having a big enough budget, or is it deliberate to add to the light hearted feel of the show?

all right, I think that's enough off topic from me. So, Star Trek: The Next Generation. Pretty good, huh? :)

[ottoDbusdriver]

Actor Mark Margolis, who played Dr. Nel Apgar in the Season 3, Episode 14 episode "A Matter of Perspective" passed away on Aug. 2.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/04/entertainment/mark-margolis-death/index.html

[Bort]

Or… Ace Ventura…

[marinw]

Question about Chain of Command: why have Jellico take command of the Enterprise instead of letting him take the Cairo to the negotiations with the Cardassians? Because the Enterprise is the Flagship and Picard was conveniently sent on a secret mission?

[John Potts]

On 8/20/2023 at 8:52 PM, marinw said:

why have Jellico take command of the Enterprise instead of letting him take the Cairo to the negotiations with the Cardassians?

Presumably the Enterprise is (or at least is considered to be) a more impressive/intimidating ship to oppose the Cardassians. Other than real world (they have the sets) reasons, of course!

[SVNBob]

On 9/19/2023 at 11:06 AM, John Potts said:

Presumably the Enterprise is (or at least is considered to be) a more impressive/intimidating ship to oppose the Cardassians.

The Enterprise is the flagship of the fleet.  Sending her showed that Starfleet was taking the situation incredibly seriously.

[Anduin]

I couldn't find the Star Trek movie thread. Anyway, Patrick Stewart on what he thought of Tom Hardy. Apparently he kept to himself, didn't mingle with the other cast.

Quote

"On the evening Tom wrapped his role, he characteristically left without ceremony or niceties, simply walking out of the door," Stewart writes. "As it closed, I said quietly to Brent and Jonathan, 'And there goes someone I think we shall never hear of again.' It gives me nothing but pleasure that Tom has proven me so wrong."

I saw him in the Dark Knight Rises, and of course, he would go on to be in my favourite movie ever, Mad Max: Fury Road.

[Trini]

12 hours ago, Anduin said:

I couldn't find the Star Trek movie thread. ...

It never got much traffic, but here:

https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/128411-star-trek-franchise/

 

[Trini]

Cross-posting since there isn't a general Star Trek media topic:

2024 in Star Trek history:

Quote

A lot—a lot—happens historically in Star Trek’s 2024, crucially important events that go on to not just shape Earth as it is in the early 21st century, but form foundational pillars for the contemporary Star Trek timeline. It’s a year we’ve heard about, and visited, multiple times across several Trek shows. So what’s exactly wild about it? Well, let us take a look through Trek’s past to find out... and perhaps, our future?

 

[Anduin]

Treknology in real life! Between the volume and this HoloTile, Disney are going to create a holodeck. Seriously, just look at it! Next up, some kind of matter replicator. I suppose that 3D printing is an early form of that technology.

 

[Browncoat]

How do you get back off the floor?  Every time he took a step, it moved him!  

It's cool, though, and I can see lots of applications for that -- as long as there's a way to get back to the real floor!

[Anduin]

5 hours ago, Browncoat said:

How do you get back off the floor?  Every time he took a step, it moved him!  

It's cool, though, and I can see lots of applications for that -- as long as there's a way to get back to the real floor!

I imagine you'd have to take a large step. Maybe there's some way of turning the floor off. "Computer. End program."

[tv echo]

The cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation received a Lifetime Achievement Award at the Saturn Awards...

Star Trek Wins Big At The 2024 Saturn Awards
BY MARK DONALDSON    FEBRUARY 5, 2024
https://screenrant.com/everything-star-trek-won-saturn-awards-2024/ 

Quote

To top off a great night for the Star Trek franchise at the 51st Saturn Awards, the cast of Star Trek: The Next Generation was honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award. After missing the TNG reunion in Star Trek: Picard season 3, Wesley Crusher actor Wil Wheaton joined Patrick Stewart, Michael Dorn, Brent Spiner, Marina Sirtis, and Gates McFadden to accept the award from Kevin Feige. Worf actor Michael Dorn took to the mic first, to reflect on the "incredible ride" of the past 35 years, paying tribute to the strong bonds between the TNG family. You can watch Michael Dorn accepting the Lifetime Achievement award below:

[Anduin]

More Treknology in real life, a bunch of AI nitwits try to invent the comm badge. Sounds like it doesn't work half as well. I'm extremely doubtful they'll even get it to half ever. That won't stop Humane from charging a zillion dollars for the privilege, but I can't imagine that I'd ever use such a thing.

[SVNBob]

On 4/13/2024 at 9:34 AM, Anduin said:

More Treknology in real life, a bunch of AI nitwits try to invent the comm badge. Sounds like it doesn't work half as well. I'm extremely doubtful they'll even get it to half ever. That won't stop Humane from charging a zillion dollars for the privilege, but I can't imagine that I'd ever use such a thing.

Apple watch minus the band plus magnetic back to attach it to a shirt.  Done.