S09.E13: A Bronx Tale

[BBHN]

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My original comment which once again got totally twisted

Not really.

Quote

My comment is why Carole always seems so offended by the comment.

As to it being such an invasion of Carole's privacy my point is Carole thinks nothing of asking someone at what age they had anal sex.  That is deeply personal to most. 

Because it's her right to feel however she wants to feel about it?

Just like some people feel questions about anal sex are more invasive to someone's privacy than questions regarding why they did or didn't have kids.

Quote

Ah but the why is essential in the context of Tinsley's assumptions.  The fact is it wasn't her choice it was her circumstance.   A circumstance from tragedy, which makes it hurtful.   I mean I get that generally it may not be the worst thing of all time ever in the world, but for Carole, at the very least it's directly linked to the worst thing that's ever happened to her.     And unless one is absolutely sure about the circumstances, even if one is, it has the potential to be a really insensitive thing to comment on at all let alone for the benefit of a woe is me argument.  I didn't see offense on Carole's face but it was more than surprise, a slight recoil.  

Yes, yes, yes.

[KungFuBunny]

15 hours ago, prettybird said:

In defense of Carole, I think she wanted a family.  Just as Tinsley wants a family.  Tinsley has frozen her eggs so she could go get a sperm donor & have kids right away but she wants a FAMILY.  Carole wanted a family with her late husband & when that didn't happen, I can see how she was reticent on just going & having a kid. It's actually really sad & I feel bad for her.. Tinsley probably doesn't know the details but just saying "you didn't want kids" is a bit short sighted. 

Agree!

Carole said 2 things at the table.

Tinsley: First of all, I’ve always said I want to get married!

Carole: Yeah, she’s always said that.

Carole: The take away from all this (meaning what Luann, Sonya & Dorinda were saying) is you need to move out.

The main people talking about Tinsley getting her own place were Dorinda, Sonja & Luann. Ramona was cackling. Bethenny was chewing and making her eyes pop.

Tinsley: First of all, no one is saying I’m in need of a fucking man. I would like to have a boyfriend and a husband, eventually. I would like to get my own place and be self sufficient as I’ve always been in my life. I just came through such a bad relationship. At the end of the day, I’m 41, I do not have children, I told you (looks to Carole) You didn’t want one, everyone has one, I’m just saying, you didn’t want one. Okay I’m just saying. STOP!

I think the intent on Tinsley’s was to lash out at the one person she knew wouldn’t bite back. I saw it as an attack, but her hostility was really toward Luann/Dorinda/Sonja. Was Carole hurt? I don’t know but she certainly was taken aback by her physical response after Tinsley said it.

[KungFuBunny]

2 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Ah but the why is essential in the context of Tinsley's assumptions.  The fact is it wasn't her choice it was her circumstance.   A circumstance from tragedy, which makes it hurtful.   I mean I get that generally it may not be the worst thing of all time ever in the world, but for Carole, at the very least it's directly linked to the worst thing that's ever happened to her.     And unless one is absolutely sure about the circumstances, even if one is, it has the potential to be a really insensitive thing to comment on at all let alone for the benefit of a woe is me argument.  I didn't see offense on Carole's face but it was more than surprise, a slight recoil.  

Tinsley and Topper were high school sweethearts. They were together since 16, got secretly married at 18. Their parents forced them to annul their marriage but they stayed together as an engaged couple and had a huge society wedding at 26. They divorced when she was 34. During their separation she went through several relationships – The German Aristocrat she was allegedly seeing before the separation and rumored to be one of the causes of the divorce moving forward. She also dated what’s his face from American Idol, and some guy that appeared on her reality show. She was with Nico from 2012 for 3 or 4 years.

So based on what she said to Carole, you didn’t want one meaning a child, I can surmise neither did Tinsley. She was with Topper for almost 20 years. Had she wanted children with him, why didn’t she – she has talked about him like he has always been her BFF. There are other times she talks about having no chemistry – again why stay for 20 years when you’ve always wanted to be married and have children. You had the marriage part/committed partner for 20 years why did a baby go to the wayside?

Thank goodness she didn’t have any kids with Nico but she stayed in a booty call, incognito relationship with him She stayed with a guy for 3-4 years that would never marry her…he wouldn’t even come out in public with her as a date.

[zoeysmom]

45 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Not really.

Because it's her right to feel however she wants to feel about it?

Just like some people feel questions about anal sex are more invasive to someone's privacy than questions regarding why they did or didn't have kids.

Yes, yes, yes.

Again, Tinsley never asked Carole why she didn't have children.  This is something that grows on this thread.  Asking is the key word.  Carole does not have children.

Carole does ask someone what age they were when they had anal sex.

Privacy is a two way street-if you want it respect others'. 

[zoeysmom]

1 minute ago, KungFuBunny said:

Tinsley and Topper were high school sweethearts. They were together since 16, got secretly married at 18. Their parents forced them to annul their marriage but they stayed together as an engaged couple and had a huge society wedding at 26. They divorced when she was 34. During their separation she went through several relationships – The German Aristocrat she was allegedly seeing before the separation and rumored to be one of the causes of the divorce moving forward. She also dated what’s his face from American Idol, and some guy that appeared on her reality show. She was with Nico from 2012 for 3 or 4 years.

So based on what she said to Carole, you didn’t want one meaning a child, I can surmise neither did Tinsley. She was with Topper for almost 20 years. Had she wanted children with him, why didn’t she – she has talked about him like he has always been her BFF. There are other times she talks about having no chemistry – again why stay for 20 years when you’ve always wanted to be married and have children. You had the marriage part/committed partner for 20 years why did a baby go to the wayside?

Thank goodness she didn’t have any kids with Nico but she stayed in a booty call, incognito relationship with him She stayed with a guy for 3-4 years that would never marry her…he wouldn’t even come out in public with her as a date.

Why did she harvest and freeze her eggs?  Someone, Ramona I believe, has already asked her about having children.  She and Topper weren't ready.  She wants children.  She said so, she froze her eggs.  Maybe her husband did not want children.  She froze eggs not embryos.  She wants a husband with her children. 

She and Nico went out and we have no idea what they talked about behind closed doors.  From previous articles which are apparently wasted to link here, Nico and Tinsley spent a lot of time together making dinner and hanging out.  It is just some on here that have characterized it as purely booty call.  I believe it is what Tinsley meant when she said she wanted to get her character back.

[Mrs peel]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 6:01 PM, lezlers said:

Tinsley is working my nerves.  Maybe it's my job as a public defender who deals with people who have NOTHING that have gone through severe trauma that makes me roll my eyes at her so much.  You have every resource in the world.  You're 41 years old and have lead a picture perfect charmed life.  Pick yourself up and move forward.  She acts like she's the only woman that's ever been in a fucked up, crazy relationship before.  She's very childlike. It's kind of embarrassing to watch.

You've hit on a big part of my beef with Tinsley.  She has so many more options that most women who leave abusers.  Including that apparently the ex wants nothing to do with her, and lives in another state.

And thanks Zoeysmom for the explanation of what the ex-boyfriend did to her.  I did a bit of googling and found she repeatedly refused to press charges; I guess the FL sugar cane money is that good.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Mrs peel
Bit and Big are different words with very different meanings!

[QuinnM]

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Again, Tinsley never asked Carole why she didn't have children.  This is something that grows on this thread.  Asking is the key word.  Carole does not have children.

I think that the conversation with Tinsley went off the rails because Tinsley attempted to justify her current position, her pain, etc by comparing it to the others.  I wanted children.  You have them so you don't know how much pain I'm in.  You Carol choose not to have children so you don't know how much pain I'm in.  Your break ups weren't written up in the newspaper so you don't know how humiliating it is.

See?  Really bad way to make an argument.  Just say I'm in pain and I was humiliated.  I wasted all those years on a douche bag who beat me.  That would have been an entirely different conversation.

[motorcitymom65]

4 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Why did she harvest and freeze her eggs?  Someone, Ramona I believe, has already asked her about having children.  She and Topper weren't ready.  She wants children.  She said so, she froze her eggs.  Maybe her husband did not want children.  She froze eggs not embryos.  She wants a husband with her children. 

She and Nico went out and we have no idea what they talked about behind closed doors.  From previous articles which are apparently wasted to link here, Nico and Tinsley spent a lot of time together making dinner and hanging out.  It is just some on here that have characterized it as purely booty call.  I believe it is what Tinsley meant when she said she wanted to get her character back.

But what to believe in the articles? Most of the articles I have read that go into detail about the actual relationship and not just the arrest, talk about the fact that they had to keep this relationship on the down low from the beginning. That his parents were against it so they kept it hidden for years. They met at out of the way places where they thought they wouldn't be seen, and she visited his house under the dark of night. Was it a booty call? I have no idea, but one thing I am fairly certain of is that if a man won't take you around his family and show you off as his girlfriend, it is more than likely he does not intend to marry you and be the father of your children. 

[BBHN]

Quote

Again, Tinsley never asked Carole why she didn't have children.  This is something that grows on this thread.  Asking is the key word.  Carole does not have children.

Carole does ask someone what age they were when they had anal sex.

Privacy is a two way street-if you want it respect others'. 

In the sentences you quoted, I never said Carole was asked by Tinsley. I was comparing the types of questions being asked. Again, to me, asking about favored sex positions and about having or not having children and why are not on the same level, not even close. It's like comparing apples and bicycles.

Edited July 3, 2017 by BBHN

[zoeysmom]

1 minute ago, Mrs peel said:

You've hit on a bit part of my beef with Tinsley.  She has so many more options that most women who leave abusers.  Including that apparently the ex wants nothing to do with her, and lives in another state.

And thanks Zoeysmom for the explanation of what the ex-boyfriend did to her.  I did a bit of googling and found she repeatedly refused to press charges; I guess the FL sugar cane money is that good.

I can't put myself in Tinsley's shoes. One of my theories is she didn't want to take the stand and subject herself to cross examination-not because she was lying about the abuse but she didn't want the under belly of their relationship exposed any further.  It isn't all that difficult for even an average attorney to shift the attention from the injuries to the victim to disparaging the victim.  I do believe from her little melt down in Vermont she is learning she can't have it both ways.  Justice is a process.  She elected not to press charges at the appropriate time believing there was more to the relationship.  The abuser had unlimited wealth and resources and the advantage she had not previously pressed charges as a hole card.  It is up to her to get well and realize there is no returning her to pre-arrest. 

[KungFuBunny]

Tinsley is 41 and has frozen eggs. She seems to want to be in a traditional relationship and married before having kids. Nothing wrong with that. Even though she doesn’t have that man in her life, she should be prepping her body for pregnancy. She is drinking a lot, at all hours. She told her therapist she needs to drink so that she can fall asleep, but she drinks early in the day and every time she has been on screen.

I still think she is stuck in a time warp. She is attracted to men that are in their mid 20’s. Nico is 10 years younger than Tinsley, he was 26 or 27 when they began dating. She chose him. He treated her disrespectfully from the beginning – in that they were a “secret” and were not seen out in public together. He never claimed her as his girlfriend, she went to his place at night. They went to out of the way places to eat or out of town hotels.

She told Sonja at the beginning of the season, she wanted to marry and have kids. They put a list together of Tinsley’s “wants”.

They go to Beautique, where she chooses an age inappropriate boy. She knows before it goes anywhere that Hanging Chad is 23. She doesn’t know his occupation only that he just moved to NY from Connecticut. She chooses to make out with him in front of the camera crew. She is the aggressor. She then goes on a date with him at the bowling alley. Again, she is the aggressor, grabbing him, stuffing food down his mouth and making out with him.

There is nothing wrong with dating. However, a woman who recently was out of a 3-4 year relationship with both physical/domestic abuse is vulnerable. Tinsley is not making good life choices. The night of Beautique, Sonja left and so did the camera crew. Tinsley was ALONE, at some point, with a boy who was a stranger, she was drinking. Being alone with a boy, put her in a physically vulnerable position, drinking on top she is impaired. Sonja asked her to leave, she didn’t want to leave. Tinsley might have ditched boy 1  and went for boy 2, someone could have put something in her drink, someone might not have liked her being so aggressive with the kissing and then putting a halt to further activities. After the first encounter, she went on a date with him to the bowling alley and took him to Luann’s afterthought party. It was revealed since then he had a serious girlfriend during this time. Not a good look to have, again Tinsley being the unclaimed temporary hook up side chick.

She told Bethenny in Vermont, I’m kind of BOY crazy, right now. But I only kiss, that’s what I’m doing, I’m just saying. I haven’t met that many people but I’m looking (smirk..pause) a lot.

Tinsley TH: Right now, what I’m looking for in a guy is very basic. Are you a man and do you have a job? Oh, and are you older than me? Check, Check, Check.

Tinsley is 41. What man that is 42 or older wants to be referred to as a BOY?

Is she stuck in a fairytale where she needs to kiss as many frogs as possible in hopes that they turn into a prince/man of her dreams?

If she wants to fuck around and just date – go for it, then just say so. The problem is her running narrative of what she says she wants vs her actions.

[breezy424]

Carole on being childless:

https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/photo-gallery/35961471/image/35961482/Carole-Radziwill

"I knew that [late husband Anthony Radziwill] couldn't have kids, and that wasn't in any way a deal-breaker for me. I just wasn't that girl who dreamed about getting married and having children. Those weren't the priorities for me. Now, looking back, I think it would have been nice to have a child. But I'm not going to sit around and mope about it." — The Daily Mail, August 2013

[zoeysmom]

20 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But what to believe in the articles? Most of the articles I have read that go into detail about the actual relationship and not just the arrest, talk about the fact that they had to keep this relationship on the down low from the beginning. That his parents were against it so they kept it hidden for years. They met at out of the way places where they thought they wouldn't be seen, and she visited his house under the dark of night. Was it a booty call? I have no idea, but one thing I am fairly certain of is that if a man won't take you around his family and show you off as his girlfriend, it is more than likely he does not intend to marry you and be the father of your children. 

Does it matter if Tinsley and this abuser were seeing each other on the down low?  NO.  No more or less than if he was screwing a housekeeper or prostitute or member of the judiciary.  When any women is a guest in his home and he does not have the right to tackle them, or vandalize a woman's car.  Notice his attacks are when a woman is trying to leave.  Whether or not a person presses charges is irrelevant to his illegal behavior.

Okay this conversation is about Tinsley stating on the show she wants to have children.  I think it was prudent she froze her eggs as she apparently wasn't ready to settle down.  I read about other RH doing it-Joanna Krupa for one and she was married until recently to a long time boyfriend.  I have to say this-it probably wasn't all that hidden when the police kept going to the guy's house. 

I do believe all the women were trying to give Tinsley good advice about having to first be comfortable within.  At the time I don't believe Tinsley was open to hear she will never live down the arrest and the comments about her relationship with Nico.  If she wants her side out she needs to sit down with a credible reporter and tell her tale.  There will never be a day her arrest won't be referred to in any subsequent stories.

13 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Carole on being childless:

https://www.popsugar.com/celebrity/photo-gallery/35961471/image/35961482/Carole-Radziwill

"I knew that [late husband Anthony Radziwill] couldn't have kids, and that wasn't in any way a deal-breaker for me. I just wasn't that girl who dreamed about getting married and having children. Those weren't the priorities for me. Now, looking back, I think it would have been nice to have a child. But I'm not going to sit around and mope about it." — The Daily Mail, August 2013

So apparently Carole has made her choice public and it doesn't seem to bother her to discuss it with even world class journalists like the ones from The Daily Mail. 

[BBHN]

Yes, HER choice. To discuss it on HER terms.

[Atwood]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Does it matter if Tinsley and this abuser were seeing each other on the down low?  NO.  No more or less than if he was screwing a housekeeper or prostitute or member of the judiciary.  When any women is a guest in his home and he does not have the right to tackle them, or vandalize a woman's car.

Of course it doesn't matter from the point of view of whether or not she deserved to be hit. No one deserves that, and I don't think that was implied.

It does however indicate that Tinsley didn't prioritize having children, since she spent the last of her fertile years with a man who didn't see her as "marriage material" (to the extent of not wanting to go places where people who knew him might see them together), who was a decade younger (different stage of life) and who was physically violent (really not "father material"). 

[motorcitymom65]

8 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Does it matter if Tinsley and this abuser were seeing each other on the down low?  NO.  No more or less than if he was screwing a housekeeper or prostitute or member of the judiciary.  When any women is a guest in his home and he does not have the right to tackle them, or vandalize a woman's car.  Notice his attacks are when a woman is trying to leave.  Whether or not a person presses charges is irrelevant to his illegal behavior.

Of course not, and I wouldn't ever say that it excused him from knocking her around. I was responding to the notion that regarding her having children, that we don't know what they discussed when they were alone. I assumed (and I could be way off base here) that the premise was that perhaps they had talked about having children together. My response was that I wouldn't think that a guy who was hiding you from his friends and family intended to raise a family with you. Of course, I could be dead wrong. 

9 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Yes, HER choice. To discuss it on HER terms.

 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

I can't put myself in Tinsley's shoes. One of my theories is she didn't want to take the stand and subject herself to cross examination-not because she was lying about the abuse but she didn't want the under belly of their relationship exposed any further.  It isn't all that difficult for even an average attorney to shift the attention from the injuries to the victim to disparaging the victim.  I do believe from her little melt down in Vermont she is learning she can't have it both ways.  Justice is a process.  She elected not to press charges at the appropriate time believing there was more to the relationship.  The abuser had unlimited wealth and resources and the advantage she had not previously pressed charges as a hole card.  It is up to her to get well and realize there is no returning her to pre-arrest. 

It is not uncommon for DV victims to refuse to press charges, in fact, it is more the norm than not. 

51 minutes ago, Atwood said:

Of course it doesn't matter from the point of view of whether or not she deserved to be hit. No one deserves that, and I don't think that was implied.

It does however indicate that Tinsley didn't prioritize having children, since she spent the last of her fertile years with a man who didn't see her as "marriage material" (to the extent of not wanting to go places where people who knew him might see them together), who was a decade younger (different stage of life) and who was physically violent (really not "father material"). 

Since we don't know what this guy was telling/promising Tinsley, there is no way to say this for certain. It is very possible that he made all sorts of promises to her, like marriage/kids/the white picket fence to keep her coming back to him. Abusers will promise their victims the sky to keep them and I doubt this jerk was any different.

[Atwood]

39 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Since we don't know what this guy was telling/promising Tinsley, there is no way to say this for certain. It is very possible that he made all sorts of promises to her, like marriage/kids/the white picket fence to keep her coming back to him. Abusers will promise their victims the sky to keep them and I doubt this jerk was any different.

Yes, but she was in her late thirties when she made the choice to start to date a playboy in his twenties (and I think most of us can agree that she wasn't stuck in a cycle of abuse with him before their relationship started). I'm merely stating the rather obvious fact that this is not the action of someone who is prioritizing starting a family, regardless of whatever abstract and diffuse "wants" she may have experienced. 

I don't see why not having children is something that happened to Tinsley, it seems to me like a natural result of her choices and priorities (which doesn't bother me, I personally don't see having children as an accomplishment). I do find her general lack of agency to be kind of off-putting, especially in a woman in her forties.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Atwood

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Atwood said:

Of course it doesn't matter from the point of view of whether or not she deserved to be hit. No one deserves that, and I don't think that was implied.

It does however indicate that Tinsley didn't prioritize having children, since she spent the last of her fertile years with a man who didn't see her as "marriage material" (to the extent of not wanting to go places where people who knew him might see them together), who was a decade younger (different stage of life) and who was physically violent (really not "father material"). 

I guess that is why one freezes eggs, sperm or embryos these day, it sets off working against the biological clock.  It may not have been a priority three years ago I believe what I am hearing Tinsley say, is she is reprioritizing.   She is younger than the rest of the group and B had her first child just short of her 40th birthday and now rues the day she met Jason. 

I would like to hear Tinsley's side of the relationship and then I have to stop myself and wonder if publicly regurgitating the past is in her best interests or it just raises a whole bunch more questions.

[KungFuBunny]

2 hours ago, Atwood said:

Of course it doesn't matter from the point of view of whether or not she deserved to be hit. No one deserves that, and I don't think that was implied.

It does however indicate that Tinsley didn't prioritize having children, since she spent the last of her fertile years with a man who didn't see her as "marriage material" (to the extent of not wanting to go places where people who knew him might see them together), who was a decade younger (different stage of life) and who was physically violent (really not "father material"). 

You can take the abusive boyfriend out of the equation.

Tinsley was with Topper from age 16 to 34. They secretly married at 18. They got an annulment but remained engaged until they married at age 26. They divorced when she was 34.

I do not buy that they weren’t ready for children. I am sure they discussed children endlessly and when they would have them when they were young. I’m sure the families discussed when they should have children. No way do I see, hey babe I want a baby, no babe how about we discuss this next year for 20 years.

From what I heard about their marriage is that Tinsley was a famewhore. She got a taste of the social life and being photographed and offered designer clothing to wear at events. She wanted the limelight, he and his family didn’t want that kind of publicity. I believe she did not want children.I believe her mother Dale, wanted her to have a child with Topper and she was against their separation.

Her flitting to 3 other men (that was in the 8 episodes of her show) during her separation doesn’t show me a woman who wanted a child.

[WireWrap]

10 minutes ago, Atwood said:

Yes, but she was in her late thirties when she made the choice to start to date a playboy in his twenties (and I think most of us can agree that she wasn't stuck in a cycle of abuse with him before their relationship started). I'm merely stating the rather obvious fact that this is not the action of someone who is prioritizing starting a family, regardless of whatever abstract and diffuse "wants" she may have experienced. 

I don't see why not having children is something that happened to Tinsley, it seems to me like a natural result of her choices and priorities (which doesn't bother me, I personally don't see having children as an accomplishment). I do find her general lack of agency to be kind of off-putting, especially in a woman in her forties.

How old is this guy? I can't find anything about his age anywhere, and he doesn't look like a twenty something, he looks older IMO! LOL And even if he was in his twenties when they started dating, that doesn't mean that they didn't talk about getting married/having kids. As I said, DV abusers know how to keep their victims close by/coming back, even if it means they promise them they will never hit them again and that they love them/want to marry them/have kids with them. These guys know how to charm vulnerable women and I guess Tinsley was vulnerable. Oh, and most abusers don't hit on the first date, they lure their victims in with promises of everlasting/undying love then they strike. Also, as some women age, their biological clock starts ticking louder and louder, with greater urgency each year which can cause some to make bad choices.

[BBHN]

Quote

How old is this guy? I can't find anything about his age anywhere

Just typing "Nico Fajul age" on Google yielded this:

http://www.hollywoodtake.com/who-tinsley-mortimers-ex-boyfriend-alexander-nico-fanjul-details-what-happened-between-ill-237106 - "The two, who have a 10-year age gap"

http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/tinsley-mortimer-is-back-in-nyc-and-dating-again-after-abusive-relationship/ - "One year ago Sunday, former It girl Tinsley Mortimer was arrested for trespassing at the Palm Beach, Fla., residence of her on-again, off-again boyfriend, Alexander “Nico” Fanjul, 31, the son of sugar baron Alexander Fanjul."

Quote

Yes, but she was in her late thirties when she made the choice to start to date a playboy in his twenties (and I think most of us can agree that she wasn't stuck in a cycle of abuse with him before their relationship started). I'm merely stating the rather obvious fact that this is not the action of someone who is prioritizing starting a family, regardless of whatever abstract and diffuse "wants" she may have experienced. 

Putting the issue of violence aside...him dating her in secret, not introducing her to his family, etc, were probably signs that this might not be the beginnings of a beautiful relationship. Unless Tinsley kept saying to herself "We can be heroes...just for one day" whenever she was with him.

[sasha206]

7 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Putting the issue of violence aside...him dating her in secret, not introducing her to his family, etc, were probably signs that this might not be the beginnings of a beautiful relationship. Unless Tinsley kept saying to herself "We can be heroes...just for one day" whenever she was with him.

Agreed.  I'm also sure the cycle of abuse didn't occur in a vaccum and there's time to get out while you can before you it gets physical.  But she was in love and choose to ignore it.  

[Jel]

56 minutes ago, Atwood said:

Yes, but she was in her late thirties when she made the choice to start to date a playboy in his twenties (and I think most of us can agree that she wasn't stuck in a cycle of abuse with him before their relationship started). I'm merely stating the rather obvious fact that this is not the action of someone who is prioritizing starting a family, regardless of whatever abstract and diffuse "wants" she may have experienced. 

I don't see why not having children is something that happened to Tinsley, it seems to me like a natural result of her choices and priorities (which doesn't bother me, I personally don't see having children as an accomplishment). I do find her general lack of agency to be kind of off-putting, especially in a woman in her forties.

Are you a betting woman, Atwood? ;)

But that is an excellent point -- my cheekiness aside.

I also don't get adults who feel like life "just happens" to them, but in her case, it's like something happened in her life that caused her emotional development to stop because in some ways she seems perpetually 15. 

[KungFuBunny]

On a superficial note, I am beginning to believe that Tinsley wears a hair topper and a hidden crown extension.

Tinsley has said she goes around the corner on the UES to get her hair blown out daily. This is one of the reasons, she doesn’t want to move out of that area of Manhattan. She is probably getting her hair colored too…why is it that every time I see her the roots are dark?

I have never seen her hair blond at the roots – they always look black to dark brown.

As much as I love Ramona, I don't think she has enough real hair to do this

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, BBHN said:

Just typing "Nico Fajul age" on Google yielded this:

http://www.hollywoodtake.com/who-tinsley-mortimers-ex-boyfriend-alexander-nico-fanjul-details-what-happened-between-ill-237106 - "The two, who have a 10-year age gap"

http://nypost.com/2017/04/15/tinsley-mortimer-is-back-in-nyc-and-dating-again-after-abusive-relationship/ - "One year ago Sunday, former It girl Tinsley Mortimer was arrested for trespassing at the Palm Beach, Fla., residence of her on-again, off-again boyfriend, Alexander “Nico” Fanjul, 31, the son of sugar baron Alexander Fanjul."

Putting the issue of violence aside...him dating her in secret, not introducing her to his family, etc, were probably signs that this might not be the beginnings of a beautiful relationship. Unless Tinsley kept saying to herself "We can be heroes...just for one day" whenever she was with him.

Thanks, I was looking for his birthdate and it wasn't listed anywhere. 10 years isn't that big a deal, late 20's with someone in their late 30's. And children aren't out of the question for a woman in her mid to late 30's either.

Just a guess here but I can see him playing her to keep her around by promising to introduce her to his parents "soon" and before you know it, she is head over heels in live with him and the beatings start once he has that control over her. Then it goes between promises, beatings, apologies, promises, beatings followed by more apologies. The abuser uses this cycle to keep his victim coming back. Add in the emotional abuse/degradation they do to their victim and the victim believes it's all her fault, that if she gets it right, the abuse will stop, he love her and all will be right in the world. DV abusers don't just hit/beat their victims, they destroy their victims sense of self, their sense of normal.

[breezy424]

7 hours ago, BBHN said:

Yes, HER choice. To discuss it on HER terms.

Did someone ask her to discuss it not on her terms?

It didn't seem to bother Carole to talk to a reporter about it because she 'did' and Tinsley didn't say anything that Carole didn't already say publicly. 

[diadochokinesis]

8 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Again, Tinsley never asked Carole why she didn't have children.  This is something that grows on this thread.  Asking is the key word.  Carole does not have children.

Carole does ask someone what age they were when they had anal sex.

Privacy is a two way street-if you want it respect others'. 

2

That would be the most boring game of Truth or Dare ever if you have to respect people's privacy. 

Carole: Tins, Truth or Dare?
Tins: Oh gee.  Umm....  Truth!

Carole: Ok, I can't get personal.  What's your favorite color?

Tins: PINK!

7 hours ago, BBHN said:

Yes, HER choice. To discuss it on HER terms.

It was also a question/answer type situation. This was just Tins making an assumption that Carole didn't want kids. Considering that it is fairly well known that Carole is a widow, it was rather classless and hurtful to make that assumption. 

That said, Carole never admonished Tins for making that assumption. She had a surprised expression on her face. It could have been surprise that Tins lashed out at her instead of the others, surprise that Tins forgot that she was a widow, etc. 

[breezy424]

38 minutes ago, diadochokinesis said:

That would be the most boring game of Truth or Dare ever if you have to respect people's privacy. 

Carole: Tins, Truth or Dare?
Tins: Oh gee.  Umm....  Truth!

Carole: Ok, I can't get personal.  What's your favorite color?

Tins: PINK!

It was also a question/answer type situation. This was just Tins making an assumption that Carole didn't want kids. Considering that it is fairly well known that Carole is a widow, it was rather classless and hurtful to make that assumption. 

That said, Carole never admonished Tins for making that assumption. She had a surprised expression on her face. It could have been surprise that Tins lashed out at her instead of the others, surprise that Tins forgot that she was a widow, etc. 

Was it an assumption?  Maybe Tinsley knew.  She and Carole had been spending time together.  And Carole has said publicly she wasn't interested in having children and it was never a consideration when she married Anthony.

And yup, Carole didn't admonish Tinsley for the statement.  Nor did she disagree. 

[diadochokinesis]

14 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

Was it an assumption?  Maybe Tinsley knew.  She and Carole had been spending time together.  And Carole has said publicly she wasn't interested in having children and it was never a consideration when she married Anthony.

And yup, Carole didn't admonish Tinsley for the statement.  Nor did she disagree. 

I just think there is a lot of reading into a situation. We don't know whether or not it was discussed privately between Carole and Tins. We don't know if Carole was offended. Yet people are running with those theories.

[BBHN]

Quote

Did someone ask her to discuss it not on her terms?

It didn't seem to bother Carole to talk to a reporter about it because she 'did' and Tinsley didn't say anything that Carole didn't already say publicly. 

Tinsley brought it up in a way suggesting Carole was surprised to be discussing it.

Just because Carole spoke of it in public doesn't mean that it is open season for people to discuss it with her whenever they want to.

[breezy424]

1 hour ago, diadochokinesis said:

I just think there is a lot of reading into a situation. We don't know whether or not it was discussed privately between Carole and Tins. We don't know if Carole was offended. Yet people are running with those theories.

And on the other hand, people are 'reading' that Carole was offended.  I can only go by what Carole has publicly stated.  And as I quoted earlier, she stated that having children was not a problem and not a consideration when she decided to marry Anthony.  But then you have posters who have decided that she was somehow offended when Tinsley brought up something that Carole has already addressed publicly.  I just don't get that.

[BBHN]

Quote

I just think there is a lot of reading into a situation. We don't know whether or not it was discussed privately between Carole and Tins. We don't know if Carole was offended. Yet people are running with those theories.

Offended might be a strong word. She did seem to be taken aback somewhat, like, "Where did this come from?"

Even though she has discussed it in public, and given how abrupt it came up in the discussion, she did handle it rather well.

[diadochokinesis]

4 hours ago, breezy424 said:

And on the other hand, people are 'reading' that Carole was offended.  I can only go by what Carole has publicly stated.  And as I quoted earlier, she stated that having children was not a problem and not a consideration when she decided to marry Anthony.  But then you have posters who have decided that she was somehow offended when Tinsley brought up something that Carole has already addressed publicly.  I just don't get that.

You and I are making the same point, I think.  Some people are reading the situation as Carole was offended (which I don't see). Others think that she was just surprised at the assumption or being called out. I just don't think we can assume conversations took place off screen which would change the interpretation of Carole's facial expression. 

4 hours ago, BBHN said:

Offended might be a strong word. She did seem to be taken aback somewhat, like, "Where did this come from?"

Even though she has discussed it in public, and given how abrupt it came up in the discussion, she did handle it rather well.

I'm using the word offended because other people have been talking about how ludicrous it is that Carole was offended by the question. To me, I don't think she was offended.  My opinion is that she was probably just taken aback considering she had largely stayed out of that discussion and also that it was a false assumption. 

[motorcitymom65]

4 hours ago, breezy424 said:

And on the other hand, people are 'reading' that Carole was offended.  I can only go by what Carole has publicly stated.  And as I quoted earlier, she stated that having children was not a problem and not a consideration when she decided to marry Anthony.  But then you have posters who have decided that she was somehow offended when Tinsley brought up something that Carole has already addressed publicly.  I just don't get that.

Yea, most of us don't get it either, which was actually what started a lot of this converation. Many of us were not reading that Carole was offended. Carole was blamed to have a reaction that many of us didn't see. She was blamed for being butt hurt when many of us read it very differently. This is what started a lot of the conversation:

I am always curious when someone chooses not to have children, like Carole, no matter what she wanted it was never going to happen naturally with her first husband, why they get so offended when someone mentions it?  Certainly since Carole has been widowed she has had plenty of opportunities to have a child.  She always looks so hurt and gets so offended. 

Most of us have said that she looked shocked and surprised, because she didn't expect to be singled out in a converation where she was mainly just an active listener and not much of a participant. I don't think she was offended because I don't think Carole gets offended unless the intent was to offend. I think she was surprised and I guess she is guilty to some by acting surprised. But then she is often called guilty of things that she doesn't do. The bitch eats a lot of crackers. The thing that is the most surprising to me is that she would be criticized in any way, vs. being applauded for not making a "thing" out of something that wasn't meant to be a "thing". 

Edited July 4, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[zoeysmom]

4 hours ago, breezy424 said:

And on the other hand, people are 'reading' that Carole was offended.  I can only go by what Carole has publicly stated.  And as I quoted earlier, she stated that having children was not a problem and not a consideration when she decided to marry Anthony.  But then you have posters who have decided that she was somehow offended when Tinsley brought up something that Carole has already addressed publicly.  I just don't get that.

Actually I brought up that Carole gets the look when someone points out she is childless by choice.  From that it went to Tinsley asking her and it being some huge personal deal with Carole. I then made the comment about Carole being okay with asking someone at what age they had anal sex.  Then it became how awful it was that Tinsley asked why Carole was childless. Never happened-unlike Carole asking about anal sex.   Thank you for pointing out when being interviewed that Carole knew going into her marriage with Anthony he could not have children and it wasn't a deal breaker.  The fact remains Tinsley never asked Carole about why she was childless.  Tinsley was talking about how the others had children and she didn't and she wanted children and a husband.  She just pointed out that Carole was the exception in the group.  The more important take is Tinsley is talking about getting married and not needing a man.  Tinsley and Luann are apparently the only two in the group that want to remarry.  (Except Ramona who said two years ago she would be re-married in two years.) Now because Luann remarried no one wants to even hear about marriage and certainly don't want to talk about it.  I guess the conversation will never get to the point that one can be married and not need a man.

So here we are Bethenny is out of her relationship with married Dennis and claims it is all Jason's fault because of divorce issues.  Carole is getting Adam out of her house and enjoying their childless by choice relationship with Adam.  (Adam much like Tinsley wants children but is in a relationship that won't produce marriage and children, see comments about Nico and Tinsley.)  Dorinda is alternatively crying about her late husband, who passed five years ago and bragging about still going strong with John five years later, Ramona hasn't been able to break it off with the love of her life - the mirror and Sonja is just full of advice on how to settle down and has no one that takes her seriously men or women.

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Yea, most of us don't get it either, which was actually what started a lot of this converation. Many of us were not reading that Carole was offended. Carole was blamed to have a reaction that many of us didn't see. She was blamed for being butt hurt when many of us read it very differently. This is what started a lot of the conversation:

I am always curious when someone chooses not to have children, like Carole, no matter what she wanted it was never going to happen naturally with her first husband, why they get so offended when someone mentions it?  Certainly since Carole has been widowed she has had plenty of opportunities to have a child.  She always looks so hurt and gets so offended. 

Most of us have said that she looked shocked and surprised, because she didn't expect to be singled out in a converation where she was mainly just an active listener and not much of a participant. I don't think she was offended because I don't think Carole gets offended unless the intent was to offend. I think she was surprised and I guess she is guilty to some by acting surprised. But then she is often called guilty of things that she doesn't do. The bitch eats a lot of crackers. The thing that is the most surprising to me is that she would be criticized in any way, vs. being applauded for not making a "thing" out of something that wasn't meant to be a "thing". 

Carole and Tinsley were the only childless women at the table and Tinsley was trying to make the point she wanted children, the others had children except Carole and it was by choice.  It isn't about eating crackers, it was a statement of fact.  Carole does not have children.  She apparently chose not to have children,  Tinsley wants children.  Had Tinsley not noted the exception she would have been deemed unreliable, hysterical and unfeeling towards childless Carole.

This group has the same conversation about marriage.  Luann and Tinsley want marriage, the rest don't.  It isn't necessarily  a bad thing to want to be married, except in this group.  This would not be a conversation on RHOBH.   There is  only one marriage in the group they tried to either stop the marriage or discount it.  The majority continued to degrade the couple and their union.  This is also just a fact.  There is significant footage to support this claim.   

I find it interesting that my comment, (quoted above) is being singled out that apparently generated about 75 comments.  There is a reoccurring theme on the thread this week where a little piece of the show takes on a life of its own.  Add to that I states that Carole asking someone at what age they had anal sex was a breach of privacy and crude.  Not to worry I was told about 20 different ways how wrong I was that it wasn't invasive or crude to ask someone about at what age they had anal sex  compared to asking (which never) happened why Carole was childless by choice.  The other example is Luann saying, "she thought one of the chef's used the restroom," devolved into Luann refusing to let the help use the restroom and a pretentious snob.  Didn't happen.  Luann never said the staff could not use the basement restroom,  Luann comments about the accommodations were simply a precursor to accepting an invitation in Mexico, and letting the host (Bethenny) know she wanted nicer accommodations and presumably a private bath.  (Not to worry Luann the worst that could happen is you could take a golf cart and stay at the W Hotel next door).  The producers and Bethenny are making the handing out of the rooms the power play.  First Vermont and now Mexico and Bethenny controls the reins.   

[LIMOM]

43 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Yea, most of us don't get it either, which was actually what started a lot of this converation. Many of us were not reading that Carole was offended. Carole was blamed to have a reaction that many of us didn't see. She was blamed for being butt hurt when many of us read it very differently. This is what started a lot of the conversation:

I am always curious when someone chooses not to have children, like Carole, no matter what she wanted it was never going to happen naturally with her first husband, why they get so offended when someone mentions it?  Certainly since Carole has been widowed she has had plenty of opportunities to have a child.  She always looks so hurt and gets so offended. 

Most of us have said that she looked shocked and surprised, because she didn't expect to be singled out in a converation where she was mainly just an active listener and not much of a participant. I don't think she was offended because I don't think Carole gets offended unless the intent was to offend. I think she was surprised and I guess she is guilty to some by acting surprised. But then she is often called guilty of things that she doesn't do. The bitch eats a lot of crackers. The thing that is the most surprising to me is that she would be criticized in any way, vs. being applauded for not making a "thing" out of something that wasn't meant to be a "thing". 

I am curious too however it is none of my business.

Asking those types of questions, is simply impolite and pushy.

as far as discussing anal sex, wtf?.....

It is like advertising yourself as a freak.

bitch, keep it to yourself.

anyways, it is always the one who talks the most, who sucks in the bedroom.

Edited July 4, 2017 by LIMOM

[motorcitymom65]

16 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

I am curious too however it is none of my business.

Asking those types of questions, is simply impolite and pushy.

as far as discussing anal sex, wtf?.....

It is like advertising yourself as a freak.

bitch, keep it to yourself.

anyways, it is always the one who talks the most, who sucks in the bedroom.

A freak for partaking in anal sex? I hate to be the big fat bearer of bad news here, but lots of people do. 

My assumption (and I could be wrong here, so forgive me) is that lots of folks haven't played this game. These are the types of questions that are asked during this game. And by the way, it's not a legal proceeding. You don't place your hand on a bible or swear to tell the truth. You can also just say "no way, not touching that one" (I have). You will get mocked and the others will give you a hard time, but you won't be completely shunned by society if you refuse to answer. 

[BBHN]

Quote

My opinion is that she was probably just taken aback considering she had largely stayed out of that discussion and also that it was a false assumption

That sounds right.

Quote

Carole was blamed to have a reaction that many of us didn't see. She was blamed for being butt hurt when many of us read it very differently.

Yeah. Then it somehow became an issue of Carole asks people about anal sex, how dare she be offended about discussing her kids history.

Because the two really are not the same situation, at all. The former not so invasive, the latter is a bit invasive.

Quote

Tinsley and Luann are apparently the only two in the group that want to remarry

That we are aware of (besides Carole and Dorinda, though they could change their minds about it in the future).

Quote

  It isn't necessarily  a bad thing to want to be married, except in this group

It is possible these women aren't against marriage, they're just not into marrying guys who will make out with other women while engaged.

Quote

There is  only one marriage in the group they tried to either stop the marriage or discount it.  The majority continued to degrade the couple and their union.  This is also just a fact.  There is significant footage to support this claim.   

None of which is indicative the women as a whole are against marriage as an institution, they might just be opposed to marriage with cheating assholes.

Quote

There is a reoccurring theme on the thread this week where a little piece of the show takes on a life of its own

So did Carole and lavender, as an example. There are tons of discussion on these threads about little pieces of the show.

Quote

A freak for partaking in anal sex? I hate to be the big fat bearer of bad news here, but lots of people do. 

My assumption (and I could be wrong here, so forgive me) is that lots of folks haven't played this game. These are the types of questions that are asked during this game. And by the way, it's not a legal proceeding. You don't place your hand on a bible or swear to tell the truth. You can also just say "no way, not touching that one" (I have). You will get mocked and the others will give you a hard time, but you won't be completely shunned by society if you refuse to answer. 

Or they could just lie lol

[motorcitymom65]

5 minutes ago, BBHN said:

Or they could just lie lol

Yep. Done it. Lied about something that meant very little in the overall scheme of things. Just call me Bethenny. 

[LIMOM]

15 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

A freak for partaking in anal sex? I hate to be the big fat bearer of bad news here, but lots of people do. 

My assumption (and I could be wrong here, so forgive me) is that lots of folks haven't played this game. These are the types of questions that are asked during this game. And by the way, it's not a legal proceeding. You don't place your hand on a bible or swear to tell the truth. You can also just say "no way, not touching that one" (I have). You will get mocked and the others will give you a hard time, but you won't be completely shunned by society if you refuse to answer. 

Huh?

I know that many partake in anal sex. I am just saying those who claim to do the most, actually do the least, ime.

Shown by society for refusing to answer?

what society might that be? Lol.

[Chit Chat]

28 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

My assumption (and I could be wrong here, so forgive me) is that lots of folks haven't played this game.

You're right.  I had no idea that people past the age of 17 sat around and played Twenty Questions.   Not that there's anything wrong with that!   I don't get out enough to know these things.  I'm really out of the loop.  ;)

[BBHN]

Quote

Yep. Done it. Lied about something that meant very little in the overall scheme of things. Just call me Bethenny. 

Ha!

[KungFuBunny]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Yea, most of us don't get it either, which was actually what started a lot of this converation. Many of us were not reading that Carole was offended. Carole was blamed to have a reaction that many of us didn't see. She was blamed for being butt hurt when many of us read it very differently. This is what started a lot of the conversation:

I am always curious when someone chooses not to have children, like Carole, no matter what she wanted it was never going to happen naturally with her first husband, why they get so offended when someone mentions it?  Certainly since Carole has been widowed she has had plenty of opportunities to have a child.  She always looks so hurt and gets so offended. 

Most of us have said that she looked shocked and surprised, because she didn't expect to be singled out in a converation where she was mainly just an active listener and not much of a participant. I don't think she was offended because I don't think Carole gets offended unless the intent was to offend. I think she was surprised and I guess she is guilty to some by acting surprised. But then she is often called guilty of things that she doesn't do. The bitch eats a lot of crackers. The thing that is the most surprising to me is that she would be criticized in any way, vs. being applauded for not making a "thing" out of something that wasn't meant to be a "thing". 

Tinsley:

First of all, no one is saying I'm in need of a fucking man. I would like to have a boyfriend and a husband, eventually. I would like to get my own place and be self sufficient as I've always been in my life. I just came through such a bad relationship. At the end of the day, I'm 41, I do not have children, I told you (looks to Carole). You didn't want one, whatever. But you have one, everyone has one, I just saying, you didn't want one. Okay, but I'm just saying...STOP!

Can you IMAGINE if Tinsley instead of saying this to Carole, she said this to Dorinda? You didn't want one with Richard, you didn't have any with Richard.

Dorinda was 41 when she married Richard.

I think if that happened, any being within a one mile radius of the Stratton Vermont Log Cabin would have been poked in the eye, jaw and ribs by Dorinda's wrath and a lone blond barrel curl would be found at the scene of the crime

Edited July 4, 2017 by KungFuBunny

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, ChitChat said:

You're right.  I had no idea that people past the age of 17 sat around and played Twenty Questions.   Not that there's anything wrong with that!   I don't get out enough to know these things.  I'm really out of the loop.  ;)

They do, and it's fun with the right people. And then you can play "Cards Against Humanity" which will also put you in a position to say outrageous and totally socially unacceptable and embarrassing things to a group of people. It helps if you have a lot of booze. 

[breezy424]

30 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Tinsley:

First of all, no one is saying I'm in need of a fucking man. I would like to have a boyfriend and a husband, eventually. I would like to get my own place and be self sufficient as I've always been in my life. I just came through such a bad relationship. At the end of the day, I'm 41, I do not have children, I told you (looks to Carole). You didn't want one, whatever. But you have one, everyone has one, I just saying, you didn't want one. Okay, but I'm just saying...STOP!

Can you IMAGINE if Tinsley instead of saying this to Carole, she said this to Dorinda? You didn't want one with Richard, you didn't have any with Richard.

Dorinda was 41 when she married Richard.

I think if that happened, any being within a one mile radius of the Stratton Vermont Log Cabin would have been poked in the eye, jaw and ribs by Dorinda's wrath and a lone blond barrel curl would be found at the scene of the crime

A important part of the quote is wrong. 

irst of all, no one is saying I'm in need of a fucking man. I would like to have a boyfriend and a husband, eventually. I would like to get my own place and be self sufficient as I've always been in my life. I just came through such a bad relationship. At the end of the day, I'm 41, I do not have children like all of you, Not I told you.  Then:  (looks to Carole). You didn't want one, whatever. But you have one, everyone has one, I just saying, you didn't want one. Okay, but I'm just saying...STOP!

[LIMOM]

2 hours ago, ChitChat said:

You're right.  I had no idea that people past the age of 17 sat around and played Twenty Questions.   Not that there's anything wrong with that!   I don't get out enough to know these things.  I'm really out of the loop.  ;)

The last time, LV, bachelorette party 

early 30's.

next time, retired 2040 on the beach, somewhere sunny and shady.

[BBHN]

Quote

They do, and it's fun with the right people. And then you can play "Cards Against Humanity" which will also put you in a position to say outrageous and totally socially unacceptable and embarrassing things to a group of people. It helps if you have a lot of booze. 

Amen. *glug*glug*...

[KungFuBunny]

2 hours ago, breezy424 said:

A important part of the quote is wrong. 

irst of all, no one is saying I'm in need of a fucking man. I would like to have a boyfriend and a husband, eventually. I would like to get my own place and be self sufficient as I've always been in my life. I just came through such a bad relationship. At the end of the day, I'm 41, I do not have children like all of you, Not I told you.  Then:  (looks to Carole). You didn't want one, whatever. But you have one, everyone has one, I just saying, you didn't want one. Okay, but I'm just saying...STOP!

Tinsley:

First of all, no one is saying I'm in need of a fucking man. I would like to have a boyfriend and a husband, eventually. I would like to get my own place and be self sufficient as I've always been in my life. I just came through such a bad relationship. At the end of the day, I'm 41, I do not have children, I told you (looks to Carole). You didn't want one, whatever. But you have one, everyone has one, I just saying, you didn't want one. Okay, but I'm just saying...STOP!

Tinsley said I told you