Snowfall - General Discussion

[Dowel Jones]

I thought the police had a German Shepherd and the Pit Bull belonged to one of the residents.

[Raja]

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Do the LAPD really use pit bulls in their raids?  Or did they?

Leon is a true man of the people. A misguided one though. Avi was right to try to cool him off even though doing so would cost him a big sale.

Uncle Jerome getting all het up over being shaded in a rap song. Oh boy, that might not bode well. But I've seen speculation that this might be where Jerome begins turning into a Suge Knight type of character.

 

I have never been around for a hammer raid but besides a 1977 Lou Grant episode on dog fighting pit bulls were just another dog until a 1987 video of an animal control officer getting her hand crushed by a pit hit the news. I did notice that Leon just said dogs like Alabama and not pits that would be said today. They did use the local "woun toun" instead of the" 5-0" call to warn of the police coming

I was half expecting a young Ice-T to be the gangsta rapper

Edited March 12, 2022 by Raja

[chick binewski]

On 3/12/2022 at 12:29 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

So what has Cissy gotten herself into? A hit on Teddy? Meanwhile, maybe Teddy had Alton stashed in Guantanamo. He wouldn't be able to reveal that to anyone, but he has to consider the risk of Alton's family thinking he killed him. It'll be interesting when he finds out Cissy is back.

I don't think I'd understand some of Cissy's choices if it wasn't Michael Hyatt playing them, if they makes sense. But at this point with the way it's being discussed on the show I cant believe Alton isn't alive. 

[Msample]

The mention of the family money being in a Panama bank makes me wonder if it gets seized  or lost when Noriega was overthrown. 
 

Arlo Givens/Raymond Berry is back !

Edited March 17, 2022 by Msample

[Raja]

8 hours ago, Msample said:

The mention of the family money being in a Panama bank makes me wonder if it gets seized  or lost when Noriega was overthrown. 
 

 

I think Panama was just a point in the money laundering chain.

Halfway through the Illiad part 1 and looking at the coordinated attacks up to the tactically stupid one on Leon and Avi and the gun deal. Who could know so much about that operation? Only Peaches, out sick, in the inner circle not accounted for.

[Sarah 103]

This epsiode (5.5) just felt strange, dream-like and drug fueled. I am interested to see what happens in part 2.

[Raja]

28 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

This epsiode (5.5) just felt strange, dream-like and drug fueled. I am interested to see what happens in part 2.

It promises to go further on the dream. Like they are Teddy's or Oso's wounded and dying thoughts

[Dowel Jones]

Parissa has quite the bedside manner, doesn't she?

Franklin and Oso, poor guys.  Of all the gin joints in all the world, they walked into that one.  It's a good thing, so far, that they left the money behind, although it might have worked better if they had tossed a handful or two to distract their pursuers for a moment, and then carjacked the nearest driver.  But this is shaping up to be a lot more interesting.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Finally, some real pushback from some real competition.  Saint's led a blessed existence as a kingpin.  Of course, having the Company behind you don't hurt.

Cissy is the biggest villain to me.  She's forever repping her tough Panther-ness, but when it gets real, she whimpers and complains.  Honey, you are the one who created the monster son.  You are the one who chose to get back in the game - long before hubby went on "vacation."

Louie and Jerome, for all their guts and cunning, are fools to think they can play in the stratosphere of the trade.  Where is their legal team to help them steer a separate course from nephew?  Where's their proprietary network of loyalists?  And they think they can make moves like this?   

Perissa is a piece of work.  More, please.

So, with the Saint Group, LLC down, who gonna work the retail end of things?  That's a vacuum that would get filled with alacrity by others.  

Methinks Avi has about had his fill of Leon.  As Michael Corleone once observed about a shady character, "You're unlucky."

The corrupt cop is intriguing, but I am hoping, and guessing, that this will be the opening to examining the massive LAPD corruption of those times.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Joimiaroxeu]

What if Veronique is working undercover to identify where all of Franklin, Jerome, and Louie's money is via the real estate investments? Most of those properties might be fake but perhaps Franklin makes a point of visiting each of them.

Bet Teddy will wear a bulletproof vest from now on.

So you can use cocaine to temporarily deaden a bleeding bullet hole. Good to know. 🙄

Yeesh, coming home to find a guy bleeding all over your kitchen floor. Lol, she literally threw salt in Teddy's wound.

WTAF? What kind of crazy Tiger King house did Franklin and Oso break into?

This episode was WILD! Were the writers on coke too? 😉

Quote

Only Peaches, out sick, in the inner circle not accounted for.

The prevailing theory among some viewers is that Peaches has AIDS. If so, he's probably not up to planning such a complicated hit.

[Raja]

44 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

The prevailing theory among some viewers is that Peaches has AIDS. If so, he's probably not up to planning such a complicated hit.

I don't think we have been shown anyone able to pull off that coordination. They would have to know Franklin, Leon along with uncle and aunty's movements. Skully not a chance. Maybe Cissy's handler as the Mexican gangs reentered the story.

[chick binewski]

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

What if Veronique is working undercover to identify where all of Franklin, Jerome, and Louie's money is via the real estate investments? Most of those properties might be fake but perhaps Franklin makes a point of visiting each of them.

Bet Teddy will wear a bulletproof vest from now on.

So you can use cocaine to temporarily deaden a bleeding bullet hole. Good to know. 🙄

Yeesh, coming home to find a guy bleeding all over your kitchen floor. Lol, she literally threw salt in Teddy's wound.

WTAF? What kind of crazy Tiger King house did Franklin and Oso break into?

This episode was WILD! Were the writers on coke too? 😉

The prevailing theory among some viewers is that Peaches has AIDS. If so, he's probably not up to planning such a complicated hit.

 

46 minutes ago, Raja said:

I don't think we have been shown anyone able to pull off that coordination. They would have to know Franklin, Leon along with uncle and aunty's movements. Skully not a chance. Maybe Cissy's handler as the Mexican gangs reentered the story.

I was not in the Undercover Veronique camp until last night. I don't trust her motives at all but she was super quick-thinking to grab those guns and start playacting right after witnessing a murderous shoot-out.

And yeah - a noticeable 1986 cough does not bode well for Peaches. But regardless I don't think he's the one giving up Franklin's secrets. I do think something ain't right with Cissy's handler. But that feeling - much like my doubt of Veronique - may be due to the show moving significant parts of the story away from the camera in between seasons. 

Was Franklin muttering about Melody when he was gassed (?) in Raymond Barry's living room?

[Raja]

12 hours ago, chick binewski said:

 

I was not in the Undercover Veronique camp until last night. I don't trust her motives at all but she was super quick-thinking to grab those guns and start playacting right after witnessing a murderous shoot-out.

 

Was Franklin muttering about Melody when he was gassed (?) in Raymond Barry's living room?

If Veronique is a Black Widow as the attorney who can function check a pistol and thinks quick we have gone even further than sleeping with Franklin for her to be a Federal Agent. Perhaps she does represent some other gang that want's the organization but Franklin doesn't have Secret Service around him. If she is willing to call a drive by own her own position, well there are easier ways to make a hit. The CIA importing drugs is one thing, doing a drive by and hitting innocents to make sure Veronique was safe to continue to function is next level stuff.

That they made a point of none of Leon's crew recognizing the shooter that they killed who was without ID like a special ops soldier might mean another city is trying to take the connection and their members came to LA for the job..

I remember Franklin calling out to Oso that the old man was going to stuff him

Edited March 18, 2022 by Raja

[chick binewski]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

I remember Franklin calling out to Oso that the old man was going to stuff him

I don't believe Veronique had anything to do with the shootings; her quick reaction and cover to keep Jerome from getting busted with a gun just gave me pause.

When Franklin was in and out of consciousness he said 'we grew up together - I loved you'. Some folks are speculating the line was referencing Kevin but my first thought went to Melody.

[eejm]

Jeez, every party stepped into a progressively weirder situation in this ep!  I take it the three female assassins planned everything?  Franklin took one of them to the factory, so she knows the drop off point.  Louie said it was their day off - I’d imagine they’re working for a rival gang.

I hate the idea of Peaches having AIDS or being the ringleader of the hits, but it looks like at least one of those is true.  😕

[cyberfruit]

pretty sure my neighbors heard me yelling, "Damn!" every time someone got shot whether by a bullet or a tranquilizing dart. this episode was wholly unexpected and had my heart racing. gonna need a rewatch before this week's episode. 

[Raja]

On 3/18/2022 at 5:10 AM, chick binewski said:

I don't believe Veronique had anything to do with the shootings; her quick reaction and cover to keep Jerome from getting busted with a gun just gave me pause.

When Franklin was in and out of consciousness he said 'we grew up together - I loved you'. Some folks are speculating the line was referencing Kevin but my first thought went to Melody.

Turns out that some folks were right. But Even after reading about Kevin to refresh my memory that entire storyline of the early days with Saint was forgotten by me. He was the one to actually try crack I think.

Veronique was raised by a grifter is her story, while teasing that she was gone with the stash house money. I don't know how she can think that by just by being the baby momma working at the clean/laundering business she would be any safer than as Franklin's girl.

How long do tigers live? An old one is roaming East L.A. and seems selective about her prey.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Huge hole at the top of the ep.  A Houdini escape is one thing.  Deciding to run from a perfectly safe house, which was the whole point of their problems to begin with?  Sorry.  Oso ain't that stoopid.  

Of course, that would mean the whole hostage sequence would not have happened and we would not have had the cementing of the bond between Saint and Oso.  It is quite obvious that they are gonna work some scam(s) on Teddy - which was Saint's plan anyway.

Parissa is awesome.  May I never meet someone like her!

If V is undercover for realz, it's the best set-up I've ever seen in any movie or TV show.  Unfortunately for her, she's conning herself by not making a complete break with bio daddy.

Saint should be messing his pants with the new awareness that a Kane could come in right under his nose and that not be known to him for weeks.  Putting together a major crew in that territory undetected by any of the leadership group?  That, is a major wake up call to GTFO.

Avi's scene was wonderful.  Quite the Dutch Uncle, he is.

I loved seeing the Tiger with his blood-covered face roaming the street as Jerome was taking Saint and Oso home.  No clue what the symbolism is supposed to be.  Don't matter.  That, was some cray cray visual.

[eejm]

Did anyone ever go back and grab the money from the crawlspace?

I think Teddy is starting to wonder if he should have just taken his chances alone with his shoulder wound rather than end up in crazy-ass Parissa’s clutches.  He’s handcuffed to her bed, right?  He’s going to have a tougher time getting away from her than Franklin and Oso did with the tiger.

I still think Veronique is a plant.  A damned good plant, but a plant.  I think that’s why she started babbling about the CIA to Franklin.  
 

We know Peaches took the money unless he told someone where it was stashed.  But is it certain he was working with Kane?  Or is Kane connected to whomever Cissy has been meeting?  We never did see where she put that pen.

Edited March 24, 2022 by eejm

[Raja]

1 hour ago, eejm said:

Did anyone ever go back and grab the money from the crawlspace?

I think Teddy is starting to wonder if he should have just taken his chances alone with his shoulder wound rather than end up in crazy-ass Parissa’s clutches.  He’s handcuffed to her bed, right?  He’s going to have a tougher time getting away from her than Franklin and Oso did with the tiger.

I still think Veronique is a plant.  A damned good plant, but a plant.  I think that’s why she started babbling about the CIA to Franklin.  
 

We know Peaches took the money unless he told someone where it was stashed.  But is it certain he was working with Kane?  Or is Kane connected to whomever Cissy has been meeting?  We never did see where she put that pen.

If I am following right Kane was the older brother of one of Franklin and Leon's close friends Kevin. So presumably Peaches would have known him too. So sort of Crip set versus Crip set and I think for sure that money went to payoff the gunmen and is in Kane's hands.

As for the smaller amount didn't Franklin go collect it with Unc Jerome and Leon. If not he could have got it himself after he captured the middle management Latino gangster following the boss and guard getting eaten.

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Deciding to run from a perfectly safe house, which was the whole point of their problems to begin with? 

They probably figured that, since there was no phone in the house, there was no way to contact Jerome as to their whereabouts.  That, and after what just happened to them, who knows what was behind Door #3?  That said, they should have looked at the cage keys to see if there was a car key on the set, but again, as posted, that would have taken out several minutes of plot.

1 hour ago, eejm said:

Did anyone ever go back and grab the money from the crawlspace?

Just before they saw the tiger, it looked like Franklin and Oso were returning to the car with large bags, so I think yes.

[eejm]

31 minutes ago, Raja said:

If I am following right Kane was the older brother of one of Franklin and Leon's close friends Kevin. So presumably Peaches would have known him too. So sort of Crip set versus Crip set and I think for sure that money went to payoff the gunmen and is in Kane's hands.

Peaches was a friend of Jerome’s, so did he really know Kane?  I don’t know - the money part points to Peaches.  Peaches as a Trojan horse (per The Iliad) checks out.  But it still doesn’t seem to add up somehow.  Peaches being sick started in episode one.  I think he’s genuinely sick (and given the time, AIDS would make sense), unless he’s really played a long con.  I don’t know, I think Kane has another informant or another angle.  I think there’s still a lot we haven’t learned yet.

[coconspirator]

I fear this show jumped the shark (or tiger perhaps) last night. That was too outrageous for a show where the basic premise-how the CIA brought crack into the inner city and the ensuing chaos-is rooted in reality. It reminds me of how Sons of Anarchy went off the rails after awhile. 
 

I'm also having a tough time following the plot this year but maybe that’s because there’s so much stuff that hasn’t been revealed yet that would make things more clear. 

[Sarah 103]

14 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Avi's scene was wonderful.  Quite the Dutch Uncle, he is.

Agreed. It was very Godfather-the line that's something like "I never wanted this for you. Govenor Corleone, Senator Corleone." 

10 hours ago, coconspirator said:

I fear this show jumped the shark (or tiger perhaps) last night. That was too outrageous for a show where the basic premise-how the CIA brought crack into the inner city and the ensuing chaos-is rooted in reality. 

The two part episode did seem strange and druggy. Whether or not this is the moment the show jumped the shark depends on if it's just a strange two part episode and the series returns to what we are used to or if it does more weird stuff. The coordinated hit felt in keeping with the episode. Things started to get a bit too weird for me when we got to the darts and the tiger. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

So...is Saint "Achilles" and Veronique his heel?  Kane as Agamemnon?  Their home turf is Troy, under siege?  The Iliad is a rather large title for a TV show.

I know Parissa is a nut, but I thought that she restrained Teddy because of his night tremors. 

 

 

 

 

 

[eejm]

5 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I know Parissa is a nut, but I thought that she restrained Teddy because of his night tremors. 

¿Porque no los dos?

Edited March 25, 2022 by eejm

[Joimiaroxeu]

Hmm, Veronique has a good cover story with that whole daughter of a con woman business. I still think she's undercover though. And now Cissy might start wondering about her.

TMW a tiger literally has your back. One inch over and Franklin would've been dinner himself. Or dessert.

Are we to assume somebody shot the tiger? I can't imagine Franklin and them left it out there to roam the streets and possibly attack an innocent person.

Ehhh, this was probably not a good time to be punching somebody bloody with your bare fists. Jerome will have to learn to deal better with his anger. Or just shoot them.

TMW you realize your "nurse" has been raping you while you were in and out of consciousness. Teddy was dumbfounded. Guess he didn't know Parissa was damn near a necrophiliac.

Sure. Veronique wants to keep distance from Franklin because she's not pregnant! That ultrsound appointment was faked and she'll be wearing padding until she can also fake a miscarriage.

Okay, I'm liking Kane so far. He is a legitimate problem for Franklin. But does he know about Teddy? Teddy can probably call in an air strike, as it were.

It'd be interesting if Veronique was put on Franklin by Kane. Meanwhile, I think the next time they see Peaches he'll either be dead or clearly dying.

[Dowel Jones]

6 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Are we to assume somebody shot the tiger? I can't imagine Franklin and them left it out there to roam the streets and possibly attack an innocent person.

That has some basis in fact.  In 2005 a captive tiger escaped and was seen roaming the rural areas of Simi Valley in Southern California.  Wildlife officials eventually killed it as they could not get close enough for a tranquilizer shot.

[Sarah 103]

9 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Sure. Veronique wants to keep distance from Franklin because she's not pregnant! That ultrsound appointment was faked and she'll be wearing padding until she can also fake a miscarriage.

How would she fake the ultrasound appointment? If you want to answer, "it's TV roll/go with it" I will accept that answer. 

[chick binewski]

19 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Sure. Veronique wants to keep distance from Franklin because she's not pregnant! That ultrsound appointment was faked and she'll be wearing padding until she can also fake a miscarriage.

 

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

How would she fake the ultrasound appointment? If you want to answer, "it's TV roll/go with it" I will accept that answer. 

For me, this week's moment of side-eyeing Veronique came about when she called out that she & Franklin were done talking and the nurse immediately returned to the exam room.

I've been through too many doctor's appointments to suspend belief that anyone would get that kind of attention, even the partner of a drug kingpin.

On 3/24/2022 at 11:36 PM, coconspirator said:

I'm also having a tough time following the plot this year but maybe that’s because there’s so much stuff that hasn’t been revealed yet that would make things more clear. 

This season does seem a bit muddled; I'm hoping based on the descriptions of the last four remaining eps that things tighten up and move along and tie together.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

How would she fake the ultrasound appointment? If you want to answer, "it's TV roll/go with it" I will accept that answer. 

Easy. The medical technician was also fake or she was paid off. Veronique was wearing fake padded skin on her abdomen. The ultrasound stuff was prerecorded from another patient who was actually pregnant, probably months ago. Franklin was in an enhanced emotional state so he wasn't paying close enough attention to notice it wasn't all real. I've seen the basic scenario done on a couple of other shows and neither of them were in the sci-fi genre. And soap operas have been pulling this kind of craziness for decades.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Veronique is already working the potential miscarriage angle with Franklin. For someone so small, she's not showing much of a 10 - 12 week pregnancy.

They have all settled on Peaches as the turncoat but ehhhh, too convenient IMO.

Teddy looks like he's still got one foot in the grave. What'll be the fallout for Franklin's operation if he dies though?

Brave of Leon to confront an OG. He was giving Kane some real talk.

Yeah, sadly a lot of those Vietnam vets never fit back into regular society. They weren't regarded as heroes like the Gulf War vets were.

Peaches was hanging out in a heroin den? If he was sharing needles that would explain how he got probably got HIV. However, I don't see how he would've been able to hide a serious addiction from Franklin and the crew.

Oy, Parissa is a straight-up sadist. And apparently Teddy just realized that he's into being a masochist. 😐

Holy crap, that engagement ring Jerome gave Louie was stunning. He did good. Real good. 💝

Louie asked a cop to do a hit on the head of a major gang. Wow. She really counts on the thirst Buckley has for her to mess up his good sense.

Who was the guy Jerome went to see at the end? Was it Peaches?

Ann Peebles singing I Can't Stand the Rain, one of the R&B classics of all time. This show does a fantastic job with its soundtrack.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by Joimiaroxeu

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Grim ep, but I have to admit I LMFAO when Buckley came up with his line about marriage being salutary and having "two good years" with his ex.

All Saint had to do to assuage Teddy's anger about a new bodyguard was to explain he came via recommendation of Avi.  Ex-Mossad?  Had to be an Avi connection.

Mama Saint with the wire on Veronique's operation.  For my money, she's the real issue.  Teddy (rightly) made an allusion to not trusting Mama's return from Cuba, but if the point of his diatribe was to get Franklin to wake up, he should have been very explicit about keeping her way out of any loop.  This was an off note from TPTB, imo.

I also agree that it is more likely than not that Veronique is some type of plant. 

It wasn't so long ago that Franklin was made persona non grata by the L.A. grifters who run the development office.  Political pressure was certainly mounting about the scourge of powder and rock.  It's hard to accept that somehow, even with the missing of a deadline, that they did not cut off Saint again.   Unless...Veronique is LE.

I want Avi and Parissa to have television babies so there can be a new series when this one runs its course.

The "Come to Jesus" trope is not welcome by me.  Leon and Jerome both invoking real depth of feeling for their brothers and sisters?  Puh-leaze.   I was angry then about the way our vets were cast off like so much refuse when they returned from serving in SE Asia.  I get angry anytime I am reminded of it.  The show is not wrong about that reality.  I am objecting to, and rejecting, the high-mindedness being offered through pure thugs.  It's a very good thing that subsequent generations of vets have been treated with respect on the whole and that medical treatment for them has noticeably improved.  

Finally, what or who exactly is Teddy's back-up if he discovers that Franklin is no longer worth dealing with?  I do very much enjoy the irony of his lecturing Saint as to not seeing disloyalty as it festers when the one and only Oso is well on his way to screwing our boy Theodore over.

[eejm]

This whole weird story about Peaches but without Peaches actually onscreen makes me think the actor had a conflicting project and the show had to write around his absence.  I'm glad Peaches' and Jerome's Vietnam service is being revisited, though. 

Buckley is a creep.  He sexually harasses Louie damn near every time he opens his mouth.  How does he stay on the payroll?  Dirty cops were a dime a dozen in LA around that time.  Couldn't the crew find one who was also not so smarmy?

I like Leon more and more as time goes on.  He has really become the moral compass of the show.  I hope that doesn't mean the kiss of death for him. 

I wish we'd see some flashbacks from Teddy's time in Tehran.  I feel like it's mentioned so frequently and is such a big part of his history (and his history with Parissa) that we should see exactly what happened. 

Oh Teddy...I think Oso is firmly in Franklin's camp.

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by eejm

[chick binewski]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The "Come to Jesus" trope is not welcome by me.  Leon and Jerome both invoking real depth of feeling for their brothers and sisters?  Puh-leaze.   I was angry then about the way our vets were cast off like so much refuse when they returned from serving in SE Asia.  I get angry anytime I am reminded of it.  The show is not wrong about that reality.  I am objecting to, and rejecting, the high-mindedness being offered through pure thugs.  It's a very good thing that subsequent generations of vets have been treated with respect on the whole and that medical treatment for them has noticeably improved.  

Finally, what or who exactly is Teddy's back-up if he discovers that Franklin is no longer worth dealing with?  I do very much enjoy the irony of his lecturing Saint as to not seeing disloyalty as it festers when the one and only Oso is well on his way to screwing our boy Theodore over.

While I root for Leon in a way, I haven't bought into his 'for our people' approach. Jerome however rings completely true for me. He's always had a dream different than the path Cissy accused him of leading Franklin down, Amin Joseph has always played him as more than a tough guy (plz don't kill him, show).

I do wonder if Oso will surprise us in how he's going to play this (but I doubt it after that mumbled apology for leaving the shooting). I am looking forward to watching Franklin's reaction when he checks his overseas bank balance.

6 minutes ago, eejm said:

This whole weird story about Peaches but without Peaches actually onscreen makes me think the actor had a conflicting project and the show had to write around his absence.  I'm glad Peaches' and Jerome's Vietnam service is being revisited, though. 

Buckley is a creep.  He sexually harasses Louie damn near every time he opens his mouth.  How does he stay on the payroll?  Dirty cops were a dime a dozen in LA around that time.  Couldn't the crew find one who was also not so smarmy?

Yes, the Peaches story feels a lot like Alton's (possible? probable?) death and Franklin's relationship with Veronique. The show is expecting us to either be invested in or take for granted things that have occurred entirely off-camera. 

I had a little trouble buying that Louie would make this move for a number of reasons, but I had more trouble believing Franklin & Leon would take Kane at his word (but yet again, the relationship with Kane is one we've never seen).

The soundtrack for this show has always been top-notch, but yes @Joimiaroxeu I loved the choice of Ann Peebles for last night's episode.

 

[eejm]

1 hour ago, chick binewski said:

I had a little trouble buying that Louie would make this move for a number of reasons, but I had more trouble believing Franklin & Leon would take Kane at his word (but yet again, the relationship with Kane is one we've never seen).

If Leon's and Franklin's treatment of Kane with kid gloves was based solely on their supposed big brother-little brothers relationship with him I'd have a tough time buying it.  I think Leon and Franklin are being naive, but I do find their stance believable due to their guilt over Kevin's death.  I thought everything Leon told Kane in their sit down was very genuine.  Will it come back to bite Leon and Franklin in the ass?  Probably, but I think their vulnerability in this particular situation is understandable. 

Like with Teddy and Tehran, the Franklin-Leon-Kane relationship is one where I think we could use a flashback or two to understand exactly where we are now.  So much of this season seems be based on history prior to the start of the show.  I'm fine with that - we've had some Alton flashbacks during his time as a Black Panther and those have fit into the story well - so I'm not sure why we haven't seen anything yet about Teddy/Parissa and Leon/Franklin/Kane.

Damson Idris did provide some background on how Franklin met Veronique.  I'm not sure if it's a spoiler or not, but I'll tag it just in case. 

Spoiler

Veronique was the attorney who represented the bookstore owners who Franklin forced out last season.  Apparently she and Veronique hit it off and started dating after the court case was settled.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by eejm

[Sarah 103]

6 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I want Avi and Parissa to have television babies so there can be a new series when this one runs its course.

Personally, I would rather have a series about Avi hunting Nazis, but maybe I'm just eager for the new season of Hunters.  

[Mr. R0b0t]

I sense Louie and Jerome have some tragedy coming their way.

[Chatty Cake]

I’m enjoying this season but I didn’t love the 2 tiger episodes. I don’t care for the characters when they become super hero like. 
I enjoyed Jerome’s scenes this week. I hope we do get to see Peaches again.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Chatty Cake

[Raja]

9 hours ago, eejm said:

If Leon's and Franklin's treatment of Kane with kid gloves was based solely on their supposed big brother-little brothers relationship with him I'd have a tough time buying it.  I think Leon and Franklin are being naive, but I do find their stance believable due to their guilt over Kevin's death.  I thought everything Leon told Kane in their sit down was very genuine.  Will it come back to bite Leon and Franklin in the ass?  Probably, but I think their vulnerability in this particular situation is understandable. 

 

I think it also has to do with Leon being an active street gang member. He kept throwing out Kane's status as an OG, basically counseling that he was as untouchable as a Made Man in Goodfella's.  How that fits in that culture when Mexican gang "OG's" put a hit on Kevin's family including Kane or why Manboy or Skully didn't have such a status I can't figure out.

[eejm]

9 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Personally, I would rather have a series about Avi hunting Nazis, but maybe I'm just eager for the new season of Hunters.  

I would watch the shit out of that show.

[Sarah 103]

Overall, the episode (5.8) was trippy and strange. It felt like filler and I didn't enjoy it with one major exception. The scene with Leon and Avi was great. Avi was giving him solid advice. The idea of talking to/learning from other revolutionaries had merit, even though it's unlikely Leon will be able to go to Vietnam, the African countries Avi suggestion, or Ireland. 

[Raja]

So Cissy is being played by the DEA who really want a turn coat Teddy badly. Auntie Louie is setting off the decades long street war just to have a bit more.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Raja

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I generally despise eps/shows of any sort who choose to use the device of drug trips.  TPTB can get away with literally any behavior or plot development and claim it is within the realm of someone trippin'.  Spare me.

Idris was really bad in his portrayal.  He was much too overwrought, too often.

On the plus side, just hand the Wardrobe Emmy to whomever costumed Avi.  Perfection.  

I also enjoyed the conversation Avi had with Leon.  One line which got my attention utterly was when he said to go ask the Viet Cong how to defeat the USA.  Genuinely scary implications in the truth of that supposition.  Avi is a modern Oracle.  No question.

The very best piece of this ep was the long-overdue fleshing out of the end game for Theodore and Franklin.  Is it necessary to either one to kill the other?  Wonderful arguments to be made on all sides.  For me, it comes down to what Teddy will want.  Would he really want to come back full to the Company?   If so, Saint must go.  If not, there's little personal liability or risk.  

Must Saint murder his way free from Teddy's clutches?  Here, too, I think it's a matter of how, or if, he chooses to leave his core "career,"  If he won't "retire," then yes, Theodore's gotsta go.  There are any number of fascinating variables and permutations to this essential question.   I do know Cissy has got to be eliminated forthwith for both their sakes.

On first viewing, I could not figure out what, precisely, Teddy was doing at Franklin's crib.  To what end was his spying effort?  Another fascinating development to follow, imo.

My God, when Parissa uses the name, "Theodore," it is sexy as can be.  She must be a direct descendant of the Sirens.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Lonesome Rhodes

[eejm]

We had The Iliad, then we had this episode.  What kind of shared fever dream was the writing team having this season?

I take it Skully was the one who drugged the chocolate, since he was skulking around the fountain then left?  And because he’s a total weirdo?

Avi and Oso were dressed perfectly according to their characters.

Thank heavens Wanda was allergic to chocolate.  She’s done so well, I’d hate to think of anything jeopardizing her sobriety.  Too bad she had to hang around the whole night with a bunch of loons.

Teddy is still hanging around that freaky doctor.  I still think we need to know more about their history in Tehran.

Yeah, Franklin.  It’s really too late.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by eejm

[chick binewski]

18 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Overall, the episode (5.8) was trippy and strange. It felt like filler and I didn't enjoy it with one major exception. The scene with Leon and Avi was great. Avi was giving him solid advice. The idea of talking to/learning from other revolutionaries had merit, even though it's unlikely Leon will be able to go to Vietnam, the African countries Avi suggestion, or Ireland. 

The more I think about the episode the less I'm disliking it, however with a 10-episode season and a 2-part tiger drama this definitely did feel like more filler. Also, exactly how long does it take a crowd of drug dealers to realize they're tripping balls and wouldn't at least a few folks lash out for being messed with? 

I did like the scene with Avi & Leon; it rang more meaningful to me than his chat with Franklin from a few weeks ago. And Franklin facing himself (Bodies! Bodies! Bodies!) was good (as was watching him put the hallucinated gun back in his pants). 

The vows scene (well, not so much vows but rather Louie & Jerome professing their feelings) was interesting to me until I rethought it as the two of them not listening to each other and I don't want to go any further with that thought bc I really want both actors to make it to season six.

We haven't seen Tony in a while, so I guess him being in the truck was our confirmation that Cissy's guy is DEA? Again, show - it would be nice to have some on-camera dialogue between interested parties.

Veronique is Shady Watch: she has to leave right before Skully spikes the chocolate? But would an acid trip be something she'd want to orchestrate? Idk I still don't like her and going to Kane is not building my trust.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by chick binewski

[Mr. R0b0t]

I lol'd around the 30 minute mark when Louie and Jerome were doing their chatty stroll a couple in the background were going at it.  Not a big fan of this episode because so many juicy revelations were undercut by one or both of the parties being wasted and it would be doubtful either party would remember much anyways.  I kinda feel like Wanda...why you gonna do this to me right now show?

[Bannon]

I've enjoyed the show, especially the first couple seasons, but there's been a decline in writing quality, and the jumping of the tiger episodes were kind of the last straw for me, although I may still watch on a delayed basis. The tiger stuff was bad enough, but for some reason the pretty obvious ripoff of "Pulp Fiction", with Teddy and Oso having the Bruce Willis and Ving Rhames parts, with the tiger playing The Gimp, annoyed me. Throw in Avi's Mossad/ Israeli Army alumni being unable to shoot the driver of a sedan going about 30 m.p.h., from about 50 ft., with automatic weapons, and I concluded the writer's room had become a pretty lazy hangout. When it reaches the point that the writers don't care, why should the audience?

Edited April 12, 2022 by Bannon

[Joimiaroxeu]

Louie going straight to Teddy for a deal was interesting. What makes her think Teddy won't rat her out to Franklin at some point?

Cissy's hair seems rather 2022 to me.

Veronique is finally starting to show. Or is she...?

Everyone is doing end runs around Saint. Veronique going to Kane for personal assurances of her safety was odd to me. Like she's okay if he kills the rest of Franklin's crew but she should be spared?

Of course Skully put something in the chocolate. Well at least it wasn't Ashwagandha. 🙄

Wanda looked fabulous. Lucky for her she's allergic to chocolate.

"Don't give me any tongue!" Say what now? Did Franklin mean "lip"? That seemed like an unintentionally sexual-ish thing for a son to say to his mother, even if he was hallucinating.

Parissa is a solid nutbag. She must be putting it on Teddy something fierce because otherwise I can't see why he's still messing with her. Yawn.

What was Louie apologizing to Franklin for? The hit she put on Kane? That was almost like when Michael Corleone gave Fredo the kiss of death. Maybe she figures Saint won't survive the ensuing payback so that's why she made a deal with Teddy.

This guy Cissy is dealing with is DEA? I thought he was with a Cuban KGB agent. Hmmm.

Ditto comments upthread, I didn't need so much of this episode to be devoted to watching people tripping out. That stuff doesn't register for me.

[Bannon]

34 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Louie going straight to Teddy for a deal was interesting. What makes her think Teddy won't rat her out to Franklin at some point?

Cissy's hair seems rather 2022 to me.

Veronique is finally starting to show. Or is she...?

Everyone is doing end runs around Saint. Veronique going to Kane for personal assurances of her safety was odd to me. Like she's okay if he kills the rest of Franklin's crew but she should be spared?

Of course Skully put something in the chocolate. Well at least it wasn't Ashwagandha. 🙄

Wanda looked fabulous. Lucky for her she's allergic to chocolate.

"Don't give me any tongue!" Say what now? Did Franklin mean "lip"? That seemed like an unintentionally sexual-ish thing for a son to say to his mother, even if he was hallucinating.

Parissa is a solid nutbag. She must be putting it on Teddy something fierce because otherwise I can't see why he's still messing with her. Yawn.

What was Louie apologizing to Franklin for? The hit she put on Kane? That was almost like when Michael Corleone gave Fredo the kiss of death. Maybe she figures Saint won't survive the ensuing payback so that's why she made a deal with Teddy.

This guy Cissy is dealing with is DEA? I thought he was with a Cuban KGB agent. Hmmm.

Ditto comments upthread, I didn't need so much of this episode to be devoted to watching people tripping out. That stuff doesn't register for me.

The reception waiter Cissy has been dealing with might be DEA, pretending to be Cuban Intelligence to Cissy. That's actually clever plotting; Cissy would never cooperate with DEA, but she is, to a point, with Cuban agents, so the DEA runs that subterfuge.