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caracas1914

By caracas1914
in Glee [V]

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

Harmony declared  there would be a  blood bath in the future to Kurt.   But Ryan was never really interested in Lindsay Pierce so it was dropped.   I still think she only got a 2 episode guest spot becasue he picked all boys to win and he reluctantly included her as a winner too.

 

it's a shame too because that was the first time I realized RM let go of great opportunities for storytelling. I had imagined Lindsay as Rachel's protege for season 3 if she had won. Imagine Rachel in senior year, Harmony in her sophomore and being frenemies in Glee Club? I don't even know why Ryan didn't love Lindsay. She was clearly the best out of all of them, AND there was a character for her. I remember Ryan stating that there was no story to be told with Lindsay....but she was literally Rachel 2.0 IRL. We all know how much he likes his clones. But nooooo, we got Jesus Dreadlocks, Irish Boy and...ok, Alex...before he became a recurring character in season 4. 

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Ceeg
Ceeg

Mileage could not vary any more than it does right now.

grandemocha
grandemocha

Can I just say, who gives a shit about his career? I have now heard several times people lament about Mark's career? His career SHOULD be over, but unfortunately it likely won't. I hope he is never ag

GaT
GaT

The time for him to have gotten help was before he committed crimes against children.  Now would have been too late, he wasn't the victim.

caracas1914

caracas1914

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It was pretty obvious on The Glee Project that Ryan had poorly veiled indifference, if not distate for Lindsay Pierce.

 

I remember thinking "fuck, she's the best actor of the group, doesn't that mean anything?"

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Ceeg

Ceeg

Yeah I thought that first season of The Glee Project made Ryan's motives and viewpoint for the show very clear. Alex (a black gay guy), Lindsay (girl), Damien, and Samuel were all the 4 finalists, and Ryan picked the two straight white guys as winners, even though IMO Alex and Lindsay were a lot more talented. However, I also thought it was crap that they were trying to help populate the choir room with reality show contestants in the first place, but I digress. Looking back, there were SO many neon flashing signs that this show was going to turn into the shitpile it has become, but I think I was too deeply in denial to realize it at the time.

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

It was pretty obvious on The Glee Project that Ryan had poorly veiled indifference, if not distate for Lindsay Pierce.

 

I remember thinking "fuck, she's the best actor of the group, doesn't that mean anything?"

 

Of course not! Acting doesn't matter! What really matters is choosing someone who can write your story FOR YOU! 

 

.....that whole 'you have to have an interesting character to yourself' mentality from Ryan REALLY bugged me.

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fakeempress

fakeempress

 

I thought that first season of The Glee Project made Ryan's motives and viewpoint for the show very clear. Alex (a black gay guy), Lindsay (girl), Damien, and Samuel were all the 4 finalists, and Ryan picked the two straight white guys as winners, even though IMO Alex and Lindsay were a lot more talented.

Damien and Samuel were black holes of non-presence, atrocious as actors. I didn't follow the Glee Project and when they went on Glee, I thought Ryan had spaced out when casting them or something. 

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Mnem

Mnem

it's a shame too because that was the first time I realized RM let go of great opportunities for storytelling. I had imagined Lindsay as Rachel's protege for season 3 if she had won. Imagine Rachel in senior year, Harmony in her sophomore and being frenemies in Glee Club?

I had wanted Rachel and Harmony in an All About Eve remix story so badly. It would have been GLORIOUS! Alas...

I'm not sure I like my baby Jesse being called a villain twice already. LOL. It may be fair, but still not cool, dude. Although I've always enjoyed the fact that post season1 Jesse could not give two fucks about anyone not named Jesse or Rachel. Hee!

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Casual Viewing

Casual Viewing

(edited)

I think they wanted Lindsay to come back and do some more episodes, but she turned them down.

Can you blame her? I bet by that time she'd seen enough about how RIB operate to stay well away. :-)

Lindsay, Grant and Groff were my favorite discoveries of the non-regulars; what a show it could have been with them as regulars in the cast and better writers.

As for Jesse being a villain? He was no more a villain than Shelby.

Edited by Casual Viewing
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wingster55

wingster55

I think they wanted Lindsay to come back and do some more episodes, but she turned them down.

 

Good for her...they didn't treat (or edit) her all that well.

 

I wouldn't call Jesse a villain...but he did crack an egg on Rachel's head so I get it.

Plus he was anti ND and Finn so..

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ancslove

ancslove

I wish Harmony had been saved for NYADA, and gotten some build-up as a real rival for Rachel.  But that wouldn't have worked with Lindsay's timing on Glee Project, and whatever went down with Charice's Sunshine in Season 2 seemed to have put off RIB from giving Rachel a season-long vocal rival outsider.

 

Season 1 Jesse was a sympathetic villain/antagonist, and his arc could have easily ended there, if Groff wasn't able to return later.  And, I've said it earlier, but I think if anyone but Groff had been cast, Jesse would have remained a short-term villain.

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Ceeg

Ceeg

10 Things We Learned (and then Forgot) from Watching Glee

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/03/glee-finale-lessons?mbid=social_facebook

 

 

1. The Mighty Can Fall: Achilles had his heel, the Trojans their gift horse. Glee had shitty writing. The show began its life as an arch, sharp-witted celebration of adolescent outsider-ness. With success, it rapidly degenerated into an iTunes download sales pitch to which slapdash dilemmas and zingers were lassoed. If you’re trying to create an intelligent TV show, you need intelligence—as well as a plan, and a capacity for weaving compelling narratives. After a promising start, it was revealed that Glee didn’t have any of these.

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RealityCowgirl

RealityCowgirl

(edited)

Yeah I thought that first season of The Glee Project made Ryan's motives and viewpoint for the show very clear. Alex (a black gay guy), Lindsay (girl), Damien, and Samuel were all the 4 finalists, and Ryan picked the two straight white guys as winners, even though IMO Alex and Lindsay were a lot more talented. However, I also thought it was crap that they were trying to help populate the choir room with reality show contestants in the first place, but I digress. Looking back, there were SO many neon flashing signs that this show was going to turn into the shitpile it has become, but I think I was too deeply in denial to realize it at the time.

Oh, dear god. The Glee Project. I could absolutely see him looking at the one with actual talent (and girl parts. Ewww.) and saying, "Nope. Already got a Rachel." Because we wouldn't want him to create a new character and hire someone with the chops to play whatever was written for that role. That show absolutely displayed his complete lack of imagination and, in retrospect, foreshadowed the wreck that the show became.

Edited by RealityCowgirl
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ancslove

ancslove

Sometimes I wonder if he regretted choosing Damian as his winner.  Samuel and Alex returned in Season 4, and Alex got an actual character arc.  Did Ryan realize that Damian just didn't fit, or couldn't handle acting?  Blake Jenner in Season 2 of Glee Project was a much better actor.

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Ceeg

Ceeg

(edited)

 

“Glee had its heyday, and then it kind of just slowly started declining, [ending up on Friday nights] which no one watches. It’s where shows go to die. There were just so many characters. There are a lot of people and a lot of story lines. It’s one of the biggest casts on television. They have the New Directions, the original New Directions, and then you have the new New Directions … The new ones didn’t really click with people, so they had to start bringing back in the old people.”

—  Matthew Morrison

 

TELL IT, MATTY FRESH

 

http://www.vulture.com/2015/03/matthew-morrison-finding-neverland.html

 

Also:

 

 

Jane Lynch:It’s like emotional whiplash, my character. I have that redemption scene with Matt: ‘I want to be your friend, I’m jealous of you.’ I had that scene six times.

Matthew Morrison:They have so many things that we don’t even talk about. Sue having a child. We’re always like … I forget the baby’s name right now. Where’s Wanda, or whatever its name is?

 

The post-Glee cast comments are going to be gold for months and years to come.

Edited by Ceeg
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Sara2009

Sara2009

You keep sucking up to the bosses Matty! Slag off your hard working colleagues instead!

He never said anything about their talent or lack thereof. He just said they didn't really click with viewers, which is true. I didn't see it as an insult.

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

He never said anything about their talent or lack thereof. He just said they didn't really click with viewers, which is true. I didn't see it as an insult.

He laid the blame at their feet not the bosses.

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shoregirl

shoregirl

I don't know. Why not say your grateful for all the opportunities that Glee gave you, like everyone else is and save the shade for a few months from now and not the day of the finale. It just left a bad taste 8n my mouth.

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Ceeg

Ceeg

(edited)

He laid the blame at their feet not the bosses.

 

Not really, since it was the bosses' jobs to cast and write for those new characters. And it was the bosses' decision to even repopulate the choir room and get rid of old characters in the first place.

Edited by Ceeg
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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

He laid the blame at their feet not the bosses.

What are you talking about? He laid the blame on the the bosses for the mess they made out of the show. Them's the facts:  there were too many characters and the newbies didn't really click with people. We saw that in the ratings. the newbies had a lot of focus and opportunity to click with the mass of viewers, and they didn't. They weren't these super successful characters that you apparently take them for, the ratings would've gone up if that were the case but they went down and down. That's what Matt is talking about. No one can argue with the numbers.

Edited by fakeempress
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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

And with the focus on him and Rachel they dropped even lower.

So? No one said the stories that the older cast got weren't crap either. But you're deluding yourself if you think the ratings wouldn't have dropped if the newbies were the kept to the exclusion of all others. They would've gone to 0.0, and the show would've been cancelled last year. 

Edited by fakeempress
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Matt also said good things about the show,so it's not like it was a complete shade fest.

What he said isn't shade. Shade is an insult dressed use in a compliment.

Like telling Matt he's a good dancer for his age.

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Ceeg

Ceeg

The point is the Great Noob Experiment of 2012 was a complete failure, and is what helped sink the show. You can blame it on the writing, on the actors, or the combination thereof, but it is what it is. 

 

Frankly, I find Matt's comments refreshing. I know that Glee ~changed lives, but I feel like some of the comments from the cast and particularly from Ryan are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that this show is a complete and utter joke now. Matt has wanted to leave Glee for a while now, and he's the lead of a new project, so I'm sure it's a relief that he's finally able to leave Glee in the dust and speak his mind. 

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)
And with the focus on him and Rachel they dropped even lower.

 

Jaytee I totally get that you don't want the decline laid all on the feet of the Noobs.   I don't think anybody will deny the S4 Noobs were talented.   And yes, the show's ratings were already declining in Season 3 with the Originals and the critical rumblings had started. 

 

However, part of the point of bringing in a cast of new students was to stop the ratings  bleed, to re-energize the show, get the media getting more buzz on Glee again, get interest for another Glee tour, have a franchise of revolving students, cast,  etc.  Maybe it was unfair, but that was what there were brought in for.

 

However ITUNES sales dropped sometimes from 100-500 percent (and more) from the previous years, the ratings continued to decline,and many of the critics bemoaned the loss of the older cast as leads as awards cred completely fell off.

 

Ryan kept on this path for ONE AND A HALF fucking seasons despite the fact that it obviously wasn't working.

 

By the second episode of Season  5 (still mostly McKinley and Noobs) the ratings had dipped to 1.5.  Before the Noobs had departed the McKIinley episodes had already dipped to 1.1 (or lower?) on Thursdays.

 

So the Noobs did not accomplish what the express purpose was for them. Sure the producers and shitty writers completely let them down, but them's the facts.

 

It was too late.  So blaming the ratings shitfest on the Original cast is like saying that a tire is  flat now after running for 1000 miles with a leak.  I did mention ONE and a HALF fucking seasons.  I'm insane or I would have stopped watching too.!

Edited by caracas1914
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grandemocha

grandemocha

 

I love Groff and Jane but they aren't breakout Glee stars. Replace them with Chris and Dianna and maybe this list can make some sense.

Groff is a breakout star though, at least more than Dianna (IMO of course). Dianna's name would immediately be associated with Glee, and so would Groff's, but after that, you'd associate him with LOOKING. Groff was a big part of Frozen & the new short that was in theaters before Cinderella, had that tiny part in American Sniper, was in the Normal Heart (also on HBO), is the lead/main character of an HBO show and that all happened for him after Glee.

 

Now he's back on Broadway doing some show with Lin Manuel Miranda I think. Dianna is doing indie after indie, which is nice, and I think she needs the experience to refine her acting skills, but I personally wouldn't say she is head and shoulders above someone like Groff as far as projects go. 

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Jaytee I totally get that you don't want the decline laid all on the feet of the Noobs.   I don't think anybody will deny the S4 Noobs were talented.   And yes, the show's ratings were already declining in Season 3 with the Originals and the critical rumblings had started.

I just don't think it's very professional of Matt to lay the blame at the feet of the actors.

He says glee had a huge cast himself. So how can they blame lie with three actors who effectively had one storyline. (Alex and Becca seem to escape the blame).

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

I just don't think it's very professional of Matt to lay the blame at the feet of the actors.

He says glee had a huge cast himself. So how can they blame lie with three actors who effectively had one storyline. (Alex and Becca seem to escape the blame)

Where did he blame three specific actors? This tunnel vision is preposterous. 

Edited by fakeempress
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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)

Groff is sort of the multiheaded animal,

 

He's been on several TV shows, (was a regular in the last Kelsey Grammar show "BOSS"  which was cancelled despite critical acclaim) , has had  an HBO series for 2 years (alas I think it won't be renewed) did a Westend revival of "Deathtrap", was in a  play ":RED": in LA, was in the biggest grossing animated film of all time (and probably in the sequel), has done convert gigs including an upcoming "How to succeed in Business", and is currently in another upcoming  BW musical. 

 

All this AFTER Glee, so I would say he's had the most varied career post Glee of anyone.

 

Before Glee he was already nominated for a Tony for Spring Awakenings and was in a previous pilot "Pretty and Handsome" with Ryan Murphy.

Edited by caracas1914
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

Where did he blame three specific actors? This tunnel vision is preposterous.

I kind of crossed purposes in my post. (That's what I get for sneakily posting on my phone during work.)

I thought Matt blamed the season four newbies. In general because she was back this season Becca seems to get a pass on any blame from season four. That only leaves three...

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

I don't think Groff broke on Glee. I think in his case it's rather a progression step in his career. I don't know if he really "broke" on anything, but my vote would be for Taking Woodstock. 

Edited by fakeempress
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caracas1914

caracas1914

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(edited)

I do think Ryan Murphy BLAMES the Noobs for the demise of the show, if that makes any sense.


I don't think Groff broke on Glee. I think in his case it's just a progression step in his career. I don't know if he broke on anything, but my guess would be for Taking Woodstock.

 

I think someone as talented as Groff,  one would think he would have  had some kind of breakthrough  (in TV and movies) eventually after his first BW success, but he was already touted before Glee within theatre circles.  However it  doesn't always work out and a lot of talented BW actors never quite get that big break in other fields,  so I do think Glee gave him a huge opportunity before a large mainstream audience.

Edited by caracas1914
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