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caracas1914

By caracas1914
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Ceeg
Ceeg

Mileage could not vary any more than it does right now.

grandemocha
grandemocha

Can I just say, who gives a shit about his career? I have now heard several times people lament about Mark's career? His career SHOULD be over, but unfortunately it likely won't. I hope he is never ag

GaT
GaT

The time for him to have gotten help was before he committed crimes against children.  Now would have been too late, he wasn't the victim.

jaytee1812

jaytee1812

I haven't checked this out yet, but the number seems quite high, or maybe I've spaced out for much of the show. Do they count one-off hookups as a couple? 

 

I'm sure Quinn and Santana are on that list, so yeah. 

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dlyn

dlyn

I have no idea how the Klainers manage to vote in 500 polls at a time. Do they have a spreadsheet?

My favorite ep is Blame It on the Alcohol, though I wouldn't say it's the best. I really liked them being in fun situations not at all related to competitions. I thought we would get more of that with the switch to NY, but we were dragged back to Lima.

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camussie

camussie

Looks like Out is going to do a series of articles on Glee this week. 

 

First one up: Casting Glee

 

No real new info except for one tidbit on Ryan's involvement in the casting process:

 

That became the way the show ended up being cast, Ryan did almost all of it via tape. With the exception of Chord, Melissa Benoist, and Dean Geyer. Darren Criss, everybody, just went by tape.

 

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)

I honestly am not bothered by Original Song as favorite because really, one can find fault in every episode of Glee. I guess for good measure if it were me I'd pick the Pilot, just because it was the start of everything but Original Song actually is one of the few episodes of the series that has held up in my opinion. I mean it gave us the awesome original songs - Big Ass Heart, Trouty Mouth and Hell No.

 

It was the one time during that arc that the whole Rachel/Finn/Quinn triangle didn't annoy me, Klaine was good in that they had their first kiss but Kurt also called out Blaine on his camera hogging before it happened, Pavarotti dropping dead on Kurt, Tina's emotional breakdown while singing about her love for Mike and of course the regional performances. The weakest part of the episode I thought was that god awful Candles duet with Kurt and Blaine. But it's one of the few episodes of the show that I can honestly still watch from beginning to end. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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fakeempress

fakeempress

 

No real new info except for one tidbit on Ryan's involvement in the casting process:

Yeah, it sounds like a compilation from various interviews. Funny that they chose to include that bit from Ryan's recent speech, when there is also the Ulrich quote how bizarre it was they didn't have a gay character in the Pilot.  

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SNeaker

SNeaker

I hated "Original Song." Tops for me, objectively (my favorite is "Mashup," but I won't pretend it's the best) are "Preggers," "Vitamin D," "Mattress," "Sectionals," "Laryngitis," and "Journey." I would add "Born this Way" if not for Lucy Caboosey.

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Mnem

Mnem

(edited)

Vitamin D. All day, err day!

Preggers a close second, though. I also have a watched Hello the most times of all the eps.

eta-eep. How could I forget Duets?!!

Edited by Mnem
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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

I hated "Original Song." Tops for me, objectively (my favorite is "Mashup," but I won't pretend it's the best) are "Preggers," "Vitamin D," "Mattress," "Sectionals," "Laryngitis," and "Journey." I would add "Born this Way" if not for Lucy Caboosey.

I was just thinking about Vitamin D and Preggers. 

Edited by fakeempress
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Florinaldo

Florinaldo

Calling Kurt and Adam a "college mistake" is indeed a joke considering how little of an impression that overcooked piece of haddock made as a possible romantic interest for Kurt; their supposedly big epic romance left as much of an impression as a neutrino going through a senior citizens' home at nap time and did not have substance enough to even be called a mistake. It was rather a writers' mistake to try and pass them as a potentially believable pairing.
 

For Lea's final Glee solo, a milestone event, Darren's song was selected from among all pop/Broadway songs ever written. The difference is monumental. What gave Darren an advantage was the tailored aptness of the lyrics, not personal favoritism. Also, it's as Anders arranged it after some possible beneficial tinkering.

He indeed had some impressive competition for that Rachel song. And I agree that it must have been deemed very satisfactory for it to be included in the last episode and as a farewell to the show, its characters and its fans. It does not mean that Sondheim, Schwartz, Rogers and Hart were "not good enough" to recycle a melodramatic turn of phrase. Simply that not only was that song of enough quality, but more importantly that it also fit the purpose.

I have read the lyrics and it's clear that DC had an advantage over all composers dead (and alive) in that he had the inside track: he was able to compose a piece tailor-made for the occasion, based on experiences he knew intimately. The show did not have to go through the trouble of selecting the song that could fit into the episode "as close as possible", with a little nip here or little tuck there in the lyrics, as they would have had to do with pre-existing lyrics not quite matching the emotions they wanted to convey. It was piece of occasional music, that the writer designed keeping in mind everything that has been generated by the show.

However, I don't think they would have selected it if it was not good enough for that specific circumstance and could not be trusted to leave a memorable mark as one of the closing songs for the show's entire run. One certainly can't blame DC for trying (and succeeding) to place it in that episode; it's the sort of professional opportunity you do not let pass. On the other hand, I am not sure that Anders' contribution will necessarily be an advantage, considering his history of overproducing by troweling layers upon layers of sound in many numbers that did not really require it to shine.
 

I honestly am not bothered by Original Song as favorite because really, one can find fault in every episode of Glee.
(...)
But it's one of the few episodes of the show that I can honestly still watch from beginning to end.

I agree. No episode will satisfy everyone completely. OS is a very good one and it fits your criterion of being watchable from beginning to end; few, if any, episodes from S1 come to mind spontaneously as qualifying under the same , as opposed to the Rocky Horror one or other episodes in S3 to S5.

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shantown

shantown

Calling Kurt and Adam a "college mistake" is indeed a joke considering how little of an impression that overcooked piece of haddock made as a possible romantic interest for Kurt; their supposedly big epic romance left as much of an impression as a neutrino going through a senior citizens' home at nap time and did not have substance enough to even be called a mistake. It was rather a writers' mistake to try and pass them as a potentially believable pairing.

Granted, I only skimmed season 4 - but I always like Adam and Kurt together. I thought the Apples was a good opportunity to bring in the competition episodes the writers couldn't let go of (they just didn't take advantage of that). I liked that Adam as a character could easily interact with Santana and Rachel in addition to being a nice complement to Kurt. It was also nice to have some more characters on the NY side.

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caracas1914

caracas1914

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I thought "Duets" had the best songs overall... the combos of Mercedes/Santana in River Deep/Mountain High and Hummelberry in Happy Days/Get Happy, and Finchel in "Born Again" was a comic and vocal gem.. The Tike duet was adorable and Kurt doing "Le Jazz hot Baby was fun.  Even Sam/Quinn on :"Lucky" was cute.

 

For biased reasons I love both the Pilot "DSB" when it actually gave chills, and "Preggers" for the Burt/Kurt and "Single Ladies".

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fakeempress

fakeempress

 

Calling Kurt and Adam a "college mistake" is indeed a joke considering how little of an impression that overcooked piece of haddock made as a possible romantic interest for Kurt; their supposedly big epic romance left as much of an impression as a neutrino going through a senior citizens' home at nap time and did not have substance enough to even be called a mistake. It was rather a writers' mistake to try and pass them as a potentially believable pairing.

I have no idea where the notion of Kurt-Adam as a supposed big epic romance comes from.  No one from the production or the actors ever described any such concept or intent, nor was it ever framed or referred to as such by the show. 

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

(edited)

Oh TVLine.....that list is laughable, at best. Some are well deserved, but then others (like Sam/Brittany in top ten and NOT St Berry? Or having Brody/Rachel above Kurt/Walter?) are just...no. But I guess I shouldn't have expected any less, though the number 4 spot surprised me immensely. 

 

I don't know if my favourite episode has changed, but in the first three seasons if you asked me, my answer to that would be Wheels. I was kind of a fan of Tina/Artie before I got smart, and it was one of the first major Kurt-centric episode...well sort of. It was back when Artie and Kurt were my favourites and I was happy to see everyone pitch in to help Artie. Plus, Defying Gravity. And Burt/Kurt family feels. And everyone in wheelchairs. And one of the only times we see a character get a job...ok really, the only time when they're in high school. Also, it's the first time we hear about Sue's sister and the first time Sue ever does something truly good, which really helped her character. You know....now that I think about it, Sue was a lot better in season 1 because she wasn't over the top evil. She had a rivalry with Will, but it wasn't harmful or incredibly evil...plus, I think I will ALWAYS laugh at the whole "I will buy you a kitten, let you care for and love that kitten...and then punch you in the face" speech. It still gets me to laugh even now.

 

But....yeah, not quite sure what my favourite episode would be, but Original Song wouldn't be it. It may be in the top...20, maybe top 10, but I'm not sure.

Edited by jessied112
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Florinaldo

Florinaldo

I have no idea where the notion of Kurt-Adam as a supposed big epic romance comes from.  No one from the production or the actors ever described any such concept or intent, nor was it ever framed or referred to as such by the show. 

You obviously were not around at the time to read the comments on boards like TWoP or on blogs by people who saw this as a great and sweet romance for Kurt, describing the couple as a full and real relationship, whereas their on-screen scenes together never went close to that. Or perhaps blessed amnesia has erased that from your memory.

 

But as I said, the writers did not really put much effort into depicting them as such. They probably  never even intended to make the couple into a serious option anyway; Adam was just a temporary diversion and many people bit, hungry as they were for false hopes. it did not help that the actor had as much screen presence as a wet piece of overcooked haddock.

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

 

You obviously were not around at the time to read the comments on boards like TWoP or on blogs by people who saw this as a great and sweet romance for Kurt, describing the couple as a full and real relationship, whereas their on-screen scenes together never went close to that. Or perhaps blessed amnesia has erased that from your memory.

Or perhaps you're making things up? I'm not following the WHOLE INTERNET to know what someone fantasized about in their blog several years ago --but I remember what was said on TWOP when Adam entered the picture, and even the most ardent anti Klainers didn't claim Kurt-Adam were supposed to be a "big epic romance". Sweet, of course it was called that, but that's not what you originally said, own your words.

Edited by fakeempress
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Ceeg

Ceeg

(edited)

I think Finchel and maybe Brittana, from a entire series' perspective, were the only ships ever written on this show as a hugely epic romance, on a consistent basis. I don't even think Klaine were written that way consistently (the 2nd and 3rd season, yes), since they had the cheating and the bickering over toothpaste and the inability to make things work and Blaine living with Kurt's bully. So, idk, but certain tiny spots in fandom can holler "epic romance" about whoever they want on this show, it doesn't make it remotely true or even popular.

 

Back to that list though, WHY are Karofsky/Santana ranked #44 out of 45? Yes, they were beards, but on a list where Artie/STD is ranked 10 spots higher, that shouldn't matter. They were hilarious together, and they're the reason I started to come around to maybe liking Dave eventually. The Bully Whips and the Prom dancing were great. 

Edited by Ceeg
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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

You obviously were not around at the time to read the comments on boards like TWoP or on blogs by people who saw this as a great and sweet romance for Kurt, describing the couple as a full and real relationship, whereas their on-screen scenes together never went close to that. Or perhaps blessed amnesia has erased that from your memory.

 

But as I said, the writers did not really put much effort into depicting them as such. They probably  never even intended to make the couple into a serious option anyway; Adam was just a temporary diversion and many people bit, hungry as they were for false hopes. it did not help that the actor had as much screen presence as a wet piece of overcooked haddock.

 

You know, I didn't see too much of Kurt/Adam in terms of a relationship, and I didn't see too much of it on TwoP. What I did see, though, was the excitement that Kurt was in a relationship other than Blaine and that's what flocked people to this pairing initially. Of course, once they realized how dull Adam was and how unfit these two were for each other, I think people backed off. But that's how I kind of see the initial attraction toward these two. Many anti-Klaine fans, especially ones still pissed at Blaine cheating, were just happy to have Kurt in a new relationship with hopefully a better guy and we can't really say if they would have been a better match because of Adam's actor not being strong enough, and the fact that they didn't write Adam to have much of a personality. At least...from what I remember, because I don't remember much about Adam besides he sang that Big Butts song and Darren's co-star and friend, Joey Richter, was in it. Oh, and people complained about how old Adam was/looked compared to Kurt. 

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

I think Finchel and maybe Brittana, from a entire series' perspective, were the only ships ever written on this show as a hugely epic romance, on a consistent basis.

 

I don't agree that Klaine wasn't written - from the series's perspective - as a big epic romance. It's just that the series has a particular view on what the big epic romance is, like school love is meant to be forever, the soulmates and endgame tropes. Finchel also cheated and went back and forth, and quarrelled for tootpaste-level things like Klaine (freaking out about using the bathroom in Heart). Brittana had squabbles and back and forths too, lbr. From the POV of the show, Klaine was always the big epic romance, and got the trials and tribulations edit. None of their midgames were even remotely framed as viable. I'm talking about the show's POV . What opinions various viewers formed is a different issue.

Edited by fakeempress
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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)
Or perhaps you're making things up? I'm not following the WHOLE INTERNET to know what someone fantasized about in their blog several years ago --but I remember what was said on TWOP when Adam entered the picture, and even the most ardent anti Klainers didn't claim Kurt-Adam were supposed to be a "big epic romance".

 

 

I'm going to have to back up Florinaldo there. While I've never been heavy into Glee fandom, one place I did follow closely was TWOP. And the posters may not have used the words epic romance but I sure remember a lot of posts elevating Adam's brief first appearance to some monumental status.

 

There was a lot of rewriting of canon and history and claims that Adam was the first person to ever see and appreciate and respect Kurt's talent because he wanted him for the Apples, how this was the first time Kurt was going to be with someone who was truly putting him first, the first time Kurt had ever been complimented and praised by anyone, the first time Kurt would be in a relationship with a true adult and just a whole lot of superlatives and praising from what was at best 3 or 4 scenes and maybe four lines total.

 

And when some naturally challenged that with pointing out that Kurt and Blaine began as a friendship, where Blaine was genuinely there for Kurt as a friend and that it was rewriting history to claim otherwise, of course the responses of "why must people trash Adam to praise Klaine, what does Blaine even have to do with Kurt and Adam". Even though of course they made the comparisons first.

 

My favorite post, that I still remember clearly was when after multiple people poked holes in all the supposed firsts Adam provided in that one brief appearance, the response was "okay, but what I mean is he was the first to do this and this and this." So in other words it wasn't that no one had done those things for Kurt but never collectively at once. And again all these amazing things happened in about four lines of dialogue.

 

Also, not for nothing, the one and only major media interview the actor playing Adam did sure gave the impression that he seemed to think this was leading to some big important romance. I remember reading that interview and thinking "wow, he's never actually seen this show has he?" Dude was talking about character motivation and development for Adam and wanting Adam to be more than just Kurt's boyfriend and I remembered thinking then at that point, that Blaine had been a regular on the show for almost two seasons and he was little more than Kurt's boyfriend. So like, good luck with that. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Florinaldo

Florinaldo

Or perhaps you're making things up? I'm not following the WHOLE INTERNET to know what someone fantasized about in their blog several years ago --but I remember what was said on TWOP when Adam entered the picture, and even the most ardent anti Klainers didn't claim Kurt-Adam were supposed to be a "big epic romance". Sweet, of course it was called that, but that's not what you originally said, own your words.

I certainly do not pretend to scrutinise the whole Internet. I am simply reporting what I remember from how some people reacted to Adam being introduced, including on TWoP; perhaps some of those who seized upon Adam as the Big Gay Hope for Kurt now prefer finding refuge in an opportunistic amnesia as to how their grandiose expectations for the couple fizzled out rather limply. However, do a little Google search for Kadam (the portmanteau name for the pairing) as I did after reading your post a few minutes ago and you will still find recent breathless reminiscences over the great romance that was betrayed by the showrunners because some fans still cling to their dashed illusions.

 

While I've never been heavy into Glee fandom, one place I did follow closely was TWOP. And the posters may not have used the words epic romance but I sure remember a lot of posts elevating Adam's brief first appearance to some monumental status.

"Epic romance" was my own wording for encapsulating many reactions to Adam's introduction. I think it is a fair description and your description of events from back then agrees with my general recollections.

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Ceeg

Ceeg

Top 25 Best and Worst Musical Performances.

 

BEST: "Rumour Has It/Someone Like You" (No. 7)

That should not be so low. That's easily top 5 for me, maybe top 2.

 

WORST: "Run Joey Run" (No. 6)

WHAT? How could anyone say Run Joey Run is one of the worst? That's one of the best!

 

We Are Young should have been on the Best List too IMO.

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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

The inclusion of run joey run in the worst list invalidates their taste IMO. And Toxic was amazing, how dare they.

I actually can't watch Toxic for the reasons they list!

Never got the Run Joey Run love! Controversial opinion I know!

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fakeempress

fakeempress

(edited)

 

 

And the posters may not have used the words epic romance but I sure remember a lot of posts elevating Adam's brief first appearance to some monumental status.

There was a lot of rewriting of canon and history and claims that Adam was the first person to ever see and appreciate and respect Kurt's talent because he wanted him for the Apples, how this was the first time Kurt was going to be with someone who was truly putting him first, the first time Kurt had ever been complimented and praised by anyone, the first time Kurt would be in a relationship with a true adult and just a whole lot of superlatives and praising from what was at best 3 or 4 scenes and maybe four lines total.

I was there and I know how the anti-Blaine Kurt fans saw Adam. Their arguments were that it was a healthy and grownup relationship, which is actually what you reference here about Adam appreciating Kurt etc .They did exaggerate in that vein. as stans do. What they saw and made Adam out to be was a welcome departure from Blaine who had shortly before cheated on Kurt, and thus antagonised a sizeable chunk of Kurt fans. But "big epic romance" even as a notion (let alone in words) was never entertained by them for Adam, because it was tightly associated with the failed Klaine romance. Let's not make a straw-man argument about this supposed big epic notion they had. 

Edited by fakeempress
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Myrna123

Myrna123

My takeaway from all of these Top 25 lists is how much of this damn show I fast forwarded through. If this show had aired in the olden days I think I would have been chased off six seasons ago!

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tab19

tab19

wow, I actually pretty much agree with those lists.  EXCEPT - where is 'I Feel Pretty/Unpretty' - the Rachel/Quinn duet/mash-up?  That's arguably my all-time favorite.

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Ceeg

Ceeg

I just realized Bohemian Rhapsody isn't on there either.

 

I think it says something that I can think of tons of "best" performances, and I still can't really think of a completely solid no-faults "best" episode where I have no complaints, other than maybe the Pilot. 

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Sara2009

Sara2009

The inclusion of run joey run in the worst list invalidates their taste IMO. And Toxic was amazing, how dare they.

I LOVE Matt's vocals on it, but the performance makes me cringe, which was intentional.

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truthaboutluv

truthaboutluv

(edited)
Their arguments were that it was a healthy and grownup relationship, which is actually what you reference here about Adam appreciating Kurt etc .They did exaggerate in that vein. as stans do. What they saw and made Adam out to be was a welcome departure from Blaine who had shortly before cheated on Kurt, and thus antagonised a sizeable chunk of Kurt fans. But "big epic romance" even as a notion (let alone in words) was never entertained by them for Adam, because it was tightly associated with the failed Klaine romance. Let's not make a straw-man argument about this supposed big epic notion they had.

 

 

I am not making a straw man argument. Maybe you and I just have different definitions of the situation. As I clearly noted, yes the words "epic romance" was not used but when people are claiming wild superlatives and declaring amazing things about a relationship that had only just started with about four lines of dialogue, then yeah I inferred from that they clearly thought it was going to be some amazing relationship. It wasn't some simply saying that Adam seemed nice and he'd certainly be better than Blaine.

 

As I noted, immediately after Adam's first appearance on the show, it was essay length posts after posts about how much he clearly appreciated Kurt more than anyone else had on the show (seriously, forget Blaine. According to some no one had appreciated and acknowledged Kurt's talent like Adam, ever on the show),  it was a better connection than Kurt had ever had, there was a maturity and closeness like never before and on and on. I do not see these kinds of comments as seriously thinking this was going to be the half assed mess it eventually turned out to be. 

 

But again, clearly we view those opinions differently so I for one am more than happy to agree to disagree and move on. 

 

With regards to TV Line list, I've always thought it was a pity that the show's decision to once again make Will inappropriately creepy with his students killed what was actually a pretty good number. The jazz arrangement of Toxic was great in my opinion once you ignore the creepy Will choreography. Seriously, just listen to the audio and it's amazing, imo.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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jaytee1812

jaytee1812

With regards to TV Line list, I've always thought it was a pity that the show's decision to once again make Will inappropriately creepy with his students killed what was actually a pretty good number. The jazz arrangement of Toxic was great in my opinion once you ignore the creepy Will choreography. Seriously, just listen to the audio and it's amazing, imo.

I hated when they made Will inappropriate with students. It's not funny.

I wish someone other than Heather had sung on Toxic. She's not bad, I would've just preferred someone better.

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Craphole Island

Craphole Island

(edited)

I say Myron's "Lose My Breath" belongs on the worst list. I agreed with a lot of the lists but agree that "Toxic" and "Run Joey Run" don't belong on it. I don't think "Copacabana" belongs on it either. I would sub "Blurred Lines" and the Hair mashup probably.

And the Unpretty mashup and We Are Young definitely belong in the best IMO. I'd also give the Crazy mashup a leg up over A Thousand Years as far as Jake/Marley songs go.

Edited by Craphole Island
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tom87

tom87

Will on Toxic never bothered me it was the way too many cuts back to Jacob Ben Israel.  They over did JBL and then the getting caught getting off to Rachel  was all too much.

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