PODCAST S01.E03 Go Pirates: Nice Meeting Everyone?

[Primetimer]

Veronica helps a schoolmate track down his long-lost...parent, while Duncan flirts with his antidepressants, boringly.

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[Primetimer]

...but we won't just leave it at that as we compile the most notable screenshots from S01.E03!

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[clairehelene7]

I am *sooooooo* happy you all are doing these. I love the 90210 ones, but this show is one I've watched and rewatched and love. (Though hating on Brandon in gif form might never get old.)

[Flamingo]

We still have guidance counselors in schools. I'm in North Carolina. If we still have them, there is hope for the rest of the country. In my county, each school has its own counselor. I have friends who are guidance counselors and they are all licensed professional counselors who could go in private practice. The ones in elementary and middle schools do work with kids individually and in groups and when appropriate try to get parents/guardians involved. The ones in high school do that as well but spend more time trying to direct kids to what they need to do for whatever post high school education they plan.

[John Potts]

As I recall, the situation with the Kanes was that:

Spoiler

Jake & Celeste returned to find Duncan in a fugue state cradling Lily's corpse. The Kanes had "Mr Weed" clean up the scene and set up Abel Koonz to take the fall. Duncan (off the meds) was worried that his memories of killing Lily were returning (as embodied by Lily's ghost) which he understandably didn't want to happen. It also explains why the Kanes were so obstructive around anyone reinvestigating their daughter's death.

(I was assuming that most viewers would know how it turned out, but since there ARE new viewers here, I'll spoiler it).

Edited June 23, 2017 by John Potts

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Not sure who we can hate on in GIF form here! We'll work on it.

[BBHN]

I think Aaron Echolls has some moments later on, no?

[sara416]

Yes, there are school counselors! We do not call ourselves "guidance counselors" anymore though, the title is most often school counselor. Programs that are accredited will train you in a therapeutic way and prepare you to also be a clinical counselor as well. Flamingo pretty much nailed everything. In my area, schools have any number of counselors depending on the population of the school. In some schools there are designated college and career counselors, and some even have designated crisis counselors (more affluent districts). Most high schools have 3 or 4 counselors and elementary and middle schools have less.

[dylansucks]

You will spoil eet! I realize it's ridiculous to complain about spoilers on a show that aired over ten years ago, but any chance you could have a spoiler zone at the end of the show to dissect that aspect of the story line? Though maybe I am the only listener who is watching the show for the first time...

[spaceghostess]

Not sure who we can hate on in GIF form here! We'll work on it.

Hating on Duncan for being boring and badly acted works for me. Or V's mom, although she may not have enough scenes.

[MostlyC]

I liked this episode a lot.  The kid and his Dad/Mom broke my heart, and I'm choosing to believe that they are able to work things out.  

I thought Ghost Lily/Duncan's subconscious was telling Duncan is that his parents/doctors were keeping him drugged up so he wouldn't remember what happened that night.  Because this is a noir-ish kind of show, and I wouldn't put anything past Camille/Celeste and her husband.

IceTwin is a good boyfriend.  

[EyewatchTV211]

In addition to school counselors, all schools have a school psychologist assigned to them (though not necessarily full time, depending on the school district). School psychologists also do some counseling, along with other things that most people are not aware of or have never heard of unless they had a reason to interact with the psychologist. Some school districts also have social workers or similar positions.

[Affogato]

15 hours ago, MostlyC said:

I liked this episode a lot.  The kid and his Dad/Mom broke my heart, and I'm choosing to believe that they are able to work things out.  

I thought Ghost Lily/Duncan's subconscious was telling Duncan is that his parents/doctors were keeping him drugged up so he wouldn't remember what happened that night.  Because this is a noir-ish kind of show, and I wouldn't put anything past Camille/Celeste and her husband.

Spoiler

At this point in the show it seems possible that Duncan killed her. And Logan--actually I have a fantasy, which isn't going to be realized, that there will be a VMars miniseries and, while Logan is deployed, Veronica starts to ferret out some information which leads to her discovering that Logan did kill Lilly and Aaron, who thought he could be acquitted, covered it up. (this would have something to do with Trina finally going through some old papers).  Extra points if she has discovered, during this period, that she is pregnant.

Because *that's* noir, baby!

 

Antidepressants don't make as much sense as antipsychotics. I think he had a psychotic break.

[topanga]

38 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Antidepressants don't make as much sense as antipsychotics. I think he had a psychotic break.

True, the producers have said that Duncan was bipolar. And had a seizure disorder. But maybe in this episode Camille/Celeste was calling them anti-depressants to make Duncan feel more 'normal.' Or maybe she thought they were antidepressants, not antipsychotics.

I will say that although Sarah and John made fun of that corny PSA moment, that scene actually helped me get the help I'd been needing for years. I'd struggled with depression for a long time but always felt that taking medication was a sign of weakness. Camille/Celeste planted an annoying little bug in my ear to remind me how common and treatable depression really is.  

 

17 hours ago, dylansucks said:

You will spoil eet! I realize it's ridiculous to complain about spoilers on a show that aired over ten years ago, but any chance you could have a spoiler zone at the end of the show to dissect that aspect of the story line? Though maybe I am the only listener who is watching the show for the first time...

Welcome to Neptune! There is still an episode thread. (topic?). I usually only visit the media topic or the Unpopular opinions, so I don't know if people still discuss the mysteries themselves.

 

I liked this episode of Go Pirates.  Made me laugh and made me think. I wish it were longer, though. I would gladly listen to a scene by scene recap and analysis of each ep. Or at least a longer plot summary. 

But in regards to Lianne Mars, my opinion is that Veronica's curiosity about her mother's departure was stirred up only after she learned about Lianne's recent rendezvous/meeting with Jake Kane. Prior to that, it seems she'd largely written off her mother, as had Keith.  But she still loved her, which children tend to do, even when their mothers are abusive, neglectful, drug-addicted, or otherwise horrible as parents.

 

Here's great summary of the Lianne situation:

Mars Investigations: the mystery of Lianne

Edited June 24, 2017 by topanga

[John Ramos]

Thanks for the info about school counselors! ...especially because Veronica could really use one when she applies to college, but WE'LL GET TO THAT.

 

50 minutes ago, topanga said:

True, the producers have said that Duncan was bipolar. And had a seizure disorder. But maybe in this episode Camille/Celeste was calling them anti-depressants to make Duncan feel more 'normal.' Or maybe she thought they were antidepressants, not antipsychotics.

I will say that although Sarah and John made fun of that corny PSA moment, that scene actually helped me get the help I'd been needing for years. I'd struggled with depression for a long time but always felt that taking medication was a sign of weakness. Camille/Celeste planted an annoying little bug in my ear to remind me how common and treatable depression really is.

That's awesome. We need more effective PSAs about mental health, in my opinion. (Preferably better-acted ones, but still.)

[John Ramos]

20 hours ago, Sarah D. Bunting said:

Not sure who we can hate on in GIF form here! We'll work on it.

Willing to try.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

True, the producers have said that Duncan was bipolar. And had a seizure disorder. But maybe in this episode Camille/Celeste was calling them anti-depressants to make Duncan feel more 'normal.' Or maybe she thought they were antidepressants, not antipsychotics.

I think it's more likely that Duncan being on antipsychotics was too "risky" at the time.

Also I can't stress enough how much Duncan was not bipolar. Teddy Dunn said he was initially told Duncan was bipolar and on antipsychotics, and attempted to play him accordingly. When viewers had a hard time connecting to him as a character, this was dropped in favour of making him less 'flat'.

Antidepressants can cause a bipolar person to become manic - and they *should* be stopped. It's not uncommon for a bipolar person to present with depression and you don't know they are bipolar until they have a manic episode (which could be years later). At that point, antidepressants should no longer be used. Going off antidepressants won't cause a manic episode (although if there are other stressors in the person's life that coincide with stopping the antidepressant, that could trigger mania).

Also, Duncan going off of his antidepressant looked nothing like a manic or hypomanic episode.

I could maybe believe that he had a bit of psychosis - which antidepressants don't treat so that didn't really make a whole lot of sense - or that he was experiencing some withdrawal symptoms. Vivid dreams is a common symptom of withdrawal for many SSRIs, and I think that is more likely to be an explanation for his vision of Lilly.

[Affogato]

7 hours ago, secnarf said:

I think it's more likely that Duncan being on antipsychotics was too "risky" at the time.

Also I can't stress enough how much Duncan was not bipolar. Teddy Dunn said he was initially told Duncan was bipolar and on antipsychotics, and attempted to play him accordingly. When viewers had a hard time connecting to him as a character, this was dropped in favour of making him less 'flat'.

Antidepressants can cause a bipolar person to become manic - and they *should* be stopped. It's not uncommon for a bipolar person to present with depression and you don't know they are bipolar until they have a manic episode (which could be years later). At that point, antidepressants should no longer be used. Going off antidepressants won't cause a manic episode (although if there are other stressors in the person's life that coincide with stopping the antidepressant, that could trigger mania).

Also, Duncan going off of his antidepressant looked nothing like a manic or hypomanic episode.

I could maybe believe that he had a bit of psychosis - which antidepressants don't treat so that didn't really make a whole lot of sense - or that he was experiencing some withdrawal symptoms. Vivid dreams is a common symptom of withdrawal for many SSRIs, and I think that is more likely to be an explanation for his vision of Lilly.

I remember that the seizure disorder actually exists but doesn't cause violence or memory loss, it's something like sleep walking, but you remember everything?--the seizure disorder was supposed to explain how he would hurt Lilly and not remember hurting her. I wouldn't expect 'bipolar' to be fairly represented, although many things were--Logan's separation anxiety, for example. 

I didn't know he was supposed to be bipolar, but given that information, I think the suddenly trying to grab Logan's flask and chasing him around, and jumping off the bleachers was meant to represent a manic incident. It seemed out of character, but Logan seemed to recognize it and even welcome the flask shenanigans, even if the bleacher jump disturbed him, which would go along with the medications flattening his aspect. 

The pill was pretty generic, actually looked like a Tylenol caplet. 

[Petunia13]

I never thought Duncan was bipolar. I thought he dissociates or sometimes spirals out when he is under stress or emotionally overwhelmed and the medical cocktail combined with traumas escalated his issues. My mom has rapid cycling bipolar disorder so I've observed it, but am by no means an expert or educated on it. The portrayal of his condition was a bit vague. 

Veronica's loyalty and interest in Lianne despite her abrupt curt abandonment rang true to me. Veronica is very righteous and I feel like the crux of her actions is always to help or understand. Because she wants to, not just because of obligation, it's an intellectual &/or ethical curiosity. It's interesting even when she's kinda pressured or put in situations her agency is affirmed. 

You guys touched on this great point. The mystery of the week was not ended in a trite bow but open ended and that had so much realism. I like how this show isn't so cut and dry. 

I'm really enjoying how this podcast makes me think, you guys are doing a great job unpacking it and making me rethink it's qualities more! 

[Sarah D. Bunting]

thanks! 

[TheOtherLibrarian]

Fearless leaders,

I am also enjoying the podcast, but I wonder if you could add a brief episode summary near the top of each podcast for those of us who are not watching along, and who maybe only watched the whole series through once? Thanks for considering.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

We're on it! Brief plot synopses will kick off each episode starting with Episode 5. (Apologies for our rather Queen-Mary-ish pivot speed there; we record these weeks in advance sometimes due to travel schedules.) I'll try to remember to drop the IMDb/VM Wikia's summaries into the forum topics as well.

[Earmuffs Mom]

Thank you so much!  

[TheOtherLibrarian]

Yaaaaay!