Predictions for the FINAL Season

[Bannon]

25 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

Too bad we can't jump 10 years ahead when Seinfeld introduced the world to Festivus.  That would be right up Elizabeth's alley.  She would take all of them on in the Feats of Strength-and be the victor, of course.  She would be the most long-winded during the Airing of Grievances but make it all about the wicked USA offending her not personal affronts.

Truly a shame that we don't get a spinoff where the Jennings move to Queens, next door to the Costanzas. I'd pay a subscription fee to see Liz banter with George's parents

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm just trying to envision the dialogue if they send Paige in to get Henry: "Hey Henry, remember that time we went on that cool (not really) impromptu vacation to this motor lodge late at night, with no plan, rhyme or reason?  Well, grab my hand, cause' we're going on another trip NOW."  

[BingeyKohan]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm just trying to envision the dialogue if they send Paige in to get Henry: "Hey Henry, remember that time we went on that cool (not really) impromptu vacation to this motor lodge late at night, with no plan, rhyme or reason?  Well, grab my hand, cause' we're going on another trip NOW."  

This made me think, "Awww" like it's a memory from my own family. What is wrong with me.

[SunnyBeBe]

I do recall how Paige reacted when they went on that unplanned, crazy ass trip when she was younger, which made no sense in her mind.  She just looked so flustered and aggravated. That was her best acting, imo.  AND I laughed so hard watching her be upset.  Sort of like watching Becky be disgusted with her parents on Roseann.  

[crgirl412]

3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Truly a shame that we don't get a spinoff where the Jennings move to Queens, next door to the Costanzas. I'd pay a subscription fee to see Liz banter with George's parents

HAHAHAHA!!!!  They would have her head spinning!!! 

She would be scared of them on some level due to their big personalities but develop a deep respect for Frank after learning about Festivus from him.    

[Ellaria]

I think that the finale must give us more substance with Stan's story line. Not necessarily lots of screen time but pivotal screen time.

He didn't convince Aderholt about P&E (yet). Oleg didn't acquiesce (yet?). Frankly, he doesn't have anything substantive on P&E and they are now on the run. He snooped around their house and came up with "cigarettes." He called Pastor Tim and came up with nothing that matters. 

For his story to have emotional weight, I think that he has to find out two pieces of information - that Philip killed Amador and that Philip married Martha - but I don't know how he comes upon this information.

Stan has a lot of questions to ask himelf about what he overlooked and what he values. What will drive his actions? 
 

[SunnyBeBe]

6 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I think that the finale must give us more substance with Stan's story line. Not necessarily lots of screen time but pivotal screen time.

He didn't convince Aderholt about P&E (yet). Oleg didn't acquiesce (yet?). Frankly, he doesn't have anything substantive on P&E and they are now on the run. He snooped around their house and came up with "cigarettes." He called Pastor Tim and came up with nothing that matters. 

For his story to have emotional weight, I think that he has to find out two pieces of information - that Philip killed Amador and that Philip married Martha - but I don't know how he comes upon this information.

Stan has a lot of questions to ask himelf about what he overlooked and what he values. What will drive his actions? 
 

How much of this information does Oleg have?  Would Claudia have reason to inform on P?  Knowing it will cause him to run and likely be killed? 

I'm trying to think outside the box on their departure, but, I can't help but recall how often in fiction, the hero says that the others should go ahead and he will be the decoy, so that he will distract the pursuers and they can get away.  So, that is what P does.  And, as a result, he takes a bullet and does not survive.  

I still hold out that somehow Oleg will survive.  Even if he takes refuge outside of Russia. Since the faction will not prevail, why would they insist on killing Oleg now? Since they are discovered, wouldn't continuing to murder loyal Soviets only hurt them more?

Edited May 24, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

HAHAHAHA!!!!  They would have her head spinning!!! 

She would be scared of them on some level due to their big personalities but develop a deep respect for Frank after learning about Festivus from him.    

George's mom learns the Jennings' true identities, and the next time she sees her son, it's all. "GEOOOOORGE, the neighbors are KGB Agents! That's MUCH more prestigous than working for the Yankees!". George sighs and rolls her eyes.

 

Liz, of course, could take some tips from George, so next time Paige gets mad about mom's inappropriate shtupping, it's all "Was it wrong that I did that? Because, I gotta tell ya, if somebody  had told me I shouldn't have sex with the 20 year old intern, I would have seen it in an entirely different light!"

That's ratings gold, CRGIRL, GOLD!

10 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I think that the finale must give us more substance with Stan's story line. Not necessarily lots of screen time but pivotal screen time.

He didn't convince Aderholt about P&E (yet). Oleg didn't acquiesce (yet?). Frankly, he doesn't have anything substantive on P&E and they are now on the run. He snooped around their house and came up with "cigarettes." He called Pastor Tim and came up with nothing that matters. 

For his story to have emotional weight, I think that he has to find out two pieces of information - that Philip killed Amador and that Philip married Martha - but I don't know how he comes upon this information.

Stan has a lot of questions to ask himelf about what he overlooked and what he values. What will drive his actions? 
 

If they don't get the pictures back from the priest stake out, in the first 5 minutes of the episode, with Stan positively id'ing Phil, well, start looking for Fonzie on the water skis.

[Ellaria]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

If they don't get the pictures back from the priest stake out, in the first 5 minutes of the episode, with Stan positively id'ing Phil, well, start looking for Fonzie on the water skis.

Then what? They are already on the run. Stan would likely assume that they are headed to Henry's boarding school in NH and have agents on alert. However, for Stan's character arc to matter, doesn't he have to learn the depths of Philip's duplicity? How does that happen? I'm hoping for confrontation between Philip and Stan that isn't necessarily violent but honest. 

[Bannon]

45 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Then what? They are already on the run. Stan would likely assume that they are headed to Henry's boarding school in NH and have agents on alert. However, for Stan's character arc to matter, doesn't he have to learn the depths of Philip's duplicity? How does that happen? I'm hoping for confrontation between Philip and Stan that isn't necessarily violent but honest. 

Well, it's been ridiculous all along that Phil's various composite sketches haven't been tied together. It's not as if he's been putting a prostheses on his nose or anything. They have a sketch of Phil as Clark, don't they? That strongly ties him to Amador's murder, and then it isn"t crazy for Stan to remember that he told Phil that Gaad was taking a retirement trip to  Thailand.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Bannon
Spelling

[sistermagpie]

36 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Then what? They are already on the run. Stan would likely assume that they are headed to Henry's boarding school in NH and have agents on alert. However, for Stan's character arc to matter, doesn't he have to learn the depths of Philip's duplicity? How does that happen? I'm hoping for confrontation between Philip and Stan that isn't necessarily violent but honest. 

There's no doubt we're getting some version if that scene. Imo.

46 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

I still hold out that somehow Oleg will survive.  Even if he takes refuge outside of Russia. Since the faction will not prevail, why would they insist on killing Oleg now? Since they are discovered, wouldn't continuing to murder loyal Soviets only hurt them more?

Oleg is spying on KGB agents in the US. That would probably not make him considered loyal, as Tatiana said. 

[Ellaria]

30 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Well, it's been ridiculous all along that Phil's various composite sketches haven't been tied together. It's not as if he's been putting a protheses on his nose or anything. They have a sketch of Phil as Clark, don't they? That strongly ties him to Amador's murder, and then it isn"t crazy for Stan to remember that he told Phil that Gaad was taking a retirement trip to  Thailand.

Yes to all of that but that isn't my question. I'm not interested in Stan physically looking at the sketches and saying "WOW" while a light bulb goes on above his head.  I'm interested in Stan's emotional arc that causes him to question his instincts, loyalties and life's work. Stan has been portrayed - depending on your point of view - as clueless, damaged, compromised, conflicted, etc. He is one of the main characters in this show and, IMO, his character arc will not be complete unless we see a heart-to-heart with Philip that addresses the authenticity of their relationship. 

My original point is that I think that Stan occupies a lot of time in the finale.

[crgirl412]

45 minutes ago, Bannon said:

George's mom learns the Jennings' true identities, and the next time she sees her son, it's all. "GEOOOOORGE, the neighbors are KGB Agents! That's MUCH more prestigous than working for the Yankees!". George sighs and rolls her eyes.

 

Liz, of course, could take some tips from George, so next time Paige gets mad about mom's inappropriate shtupping, it's all "Was it wrong that I did that? Because, I gotta tell ya, if somebody  had told me I shouldn't have sex with the 20 year old intern, I would have seen it in an entirely different light!"

That's ratings gold, CRGIRL, GOLD!

If they don't get the pictures back from the priest stake out, in the first 5 minutes of the episode, with Stan positively id'ing Phil, well, start looking for Fonzie on the water skis.

Yes!!  The parents were always paranoid so that wouldn't have been a stretch for the show!  That would've been gold, Bannon, gold!!   

HA!!  Neither Liz nor George think inappropriate shtupping is wrong!  He slept with his cousin and she slept with anyone.  We know she didn't use the Today Sponge!    

I think Lloyd Braun is in the KGB too!!  He's way too smooth for only working in Dinkin's campaign! 

[Erin9]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Then what? They are already on the run. Stan would likely assume that they are headed to Henry's boarding school in NH and have agents on alert. However, for Stan's character arc to matter, doesn't he have to learn the depths of Philip's duplicity? How does that happen? I'm hoping for confrontation between Philip and Stan that isn't necessarily violent but honest. 

Thing is- Philip never went looking for Stan. Stan moved in. He didn’t look to create this. He got stuck in a situation that was highly dangerous to himself and his family.  He didn’t pump Stan for info because that would have been dumb on his part. 

I kinda hope Amador gets left out of this. Unless Philip gets a full say into what happened. He followed Philip, was looking for a fight, forced one out of jealousy- not realizing he was taking on the KGB. Philip tried to walk away. It might be nice though for Stan to realize just how cold his murder of Vlad truly was though. 

But, really, I have no desire to hear a conversation that includes Stan being super judgmental and self righteous if it comes down to exact crimes he’s committed. I’ve watched Philip struggle with it all enough for years. I’d prefer it if the conversation was more about them and their relationship not what Philip did or didn’t do in the name of his country. 

I just hope Stan is capable of some nuance if they do talk. Hard to say based on how stupidly he handled not one, but two, conversations with Oleg.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Erin9

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Yes to all of that but that isn't my question. I'm not interested in Stan physically looking at the sketches and saying "WOW" while a light bulb goes on above his head.  I'm interested in Stan's emotional arc that causes him to question his instincts, loyalties and life's work. Stan has been portrayed - depending on your point of view - as clueless, damaged, compromised, conflicted, etc. He is one of the main characters in this show and, IMO, his character arc will not be complete unless we see a heart-to-heart with Philip that addresses the authenticity of their relationship. 

My original point is that I think that Stan occupies a lot of time in the finale.

He ought to, that's for sure, and that's why they need Stan to make a positive ID, with him tying Phil to Amador. Gene, Gaad, etc., in the first 5 minutes. If they waste a bunch of time on Stan discovering what now should be quickly obvious, then there's not enough time for the interesting stuff.

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

Yes!!  The parents were always paranoid so that wouldn't have been a stretch for the show!  That would've been gold, Bannon, gold!!   

HA!!  Neither Liz nor George think inappropriate shtupping is wrong!  He slept with his cousin and she slept with anyone.  We know she didn't use the Today Sponge!    

I think Lloyd Braun is in the KGB too!!  He's way too smooth for only working in Dinkin's campaign! 

Tell me you don't want to see Izzy Mandlebaum yelling at Phil "You think you're better than me? It's GO TIME!!!"

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've read that it's not that easy to get into Canada. Of course, they likely have proper (fake) credentials. 

Until relatively recently, pretty much any form of ID would be enough to get you across the border. Certainly in the 80s a photo driver's license would be enough. And Liz took passports from the laundry room, so the "go-bag" was ready.

[Ellaria]

10 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Thing is- Philip never went looking for Stan. Stan moved in. He didn’t look to create this. He got stuck in a situation that was highly dangerous to himself and his family.  He didn’t pump Stan for info because that would have been dumb on his part. 

I kinda hope Amador gets left out of this. Unless Philip gets a full say into what happened. He followed Philip, was looking for a fight, forced one out of jealousy- not realizing he was taking on the KGB. Philip tried to walk away. It might be nice though for Stan to realize just how cold his murder of Vlad truly was though. 

I just hope Stan is capable of some nuance if they do talk. Hard to say based on how stupidly he handled not one, but two, conversations with Oleg.

Not sure what Philip "gets a full say" means. I want this to be about Stan. I don't particularly care how they depict it. I think that it needs to be evident. Stan needs to understand the totality of Philip's actions. Then he can chose what path to take when - and if - he does come face-to-face with him again.

The writing for Stan's character has come under lots of criticism and I have been vocal about my disappointment with it. However, this is the end game. I want Stan to reflect on what Philip has done, what Oleg is trying to do and his relationship with both of these men. That has to inform his next steps.

[hellmouse]

16 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

Thing is- Philip never went looking for Stan. Stan moved in. He didn’t look to create this. He got stuck in a situation that was highly dangerous to himself and his family.  He didn’t pump Stan for info because that would have been dumb on his part. 

I kinda hope Amador gets left out of this. Unless Philip gets a full say into what happened. He followed Philip, was looking for a fight, forced one out of jealousy- not realizing he was taking on the KGB. Philip tried to walk away. It might be nice though for Stan to realize just how cold his murder of Vlad truly was though. 

I just hope Stan is capable of some nuance if they do talk. Hard to say based on how stupidly he handled not one, but two, conversations with Oleg.

I agree about Stan being capable of nuance. He seemed to have regressed in his conversations with Oleg. It's like he was still giving his Thanksgiving "toast". If he's going to just have some kind of self-righteous anger/gung ho patriotism when dealing with Philip, then I'd rather not see it. 

I actually liked Stan less after last night's episode. He just seemed boorishly clueless. 

[crgirl412]

3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Tell me you don't want to see Izzy Mandlebaum yelling at Phil "You think you're better than me? It's GO TIME!!!"

That would be good!!  I think they would write it so Philip couldn't lift the TV stand but of course Liz walked over and did it.  Or maybe Phil, Liz and Paige couldn't do but Henry lifts it easily.  

If they go back home as heroes they could afford to move to the USSR's Boca Raton, Sochi and their version of Del Boca Vista is an apartment with heat and hot water.  

[hellmouse]

1 minute ago, Ellaria Sand said:

The writing for Stan's character has come under lots of criticism and I have been vocal about my disappointment with it. However, this is the end game. I want Stan to reflect on what Philip has done, what Oleg is trying to do and his relationship with both of these men. That has to inform his next steps.

yes, I want Stan to be able to reflect! show some self-awareness. Otherwise he just seems two-dimensional. I used to think he was capable of self-reflection but if he keeps getting caught up in his "I'm the law" persona then he might just feel angry and justified at being angry. I guess it could feel believable but it would be disappointing. 

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

That would be good!!  I think they would write it so Philip couldn't lift the TV stand but of course Liz walked over and did it.  Or maybe Phil, Liz and Paige couldn't do but Henry lifts it easily.  

If they go back home as heroes they could afford to move to the USSR's Boca Raton, Sochi and their version of Del Boca Vista is an apartment with heat and hot water.  

Henry buys Phil a Yugo. Hijinks ensue!

[Erin9]

6 minutes ago, hellmouse said:

I agree about Stan being capable of nuance. He seemed to have regressed in his conversations with Oleg. It's like he was still giving his Thanksgiving "toast". If he's going to just have some kind of self-righteous anger/gung ho patriotism when dealing with Philip, then I'd rather not see it. 

I actually liked Stan less after last night's episode. He just seemed boorishly clueless. 

Exactly. If it’s all I’m good/you’re evil- I’ll pass. 

I’m not sure I’ve ever been as disgusted with Stan as I was last night. He took a huge hit. Worse than Vlad’s murder or how he treated Sandra for me. I just... really hated him for being so stupid, so clueless, so unable to GET IT. It really wasn’t that complicated. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Just so they (FBI) don't announce they are forming a perimeter.  Have you ever noticed how when they do that in movies, tv, that things go south fast.  It's never a good thing.  I just hope they don't do it or maybe that would be a good thing, because normally, the people forming the perimeter are the ones who go down without success.  I know it's weird to root for the bad guys, but, I will in this one case. Plus, Stan's not all that perfect, imo.  

[crgirl412]

5 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Henry buys Phil a Yugo. Hijinks ensue!

YES!!!!!!!

[BingeyKohan]

It's interesting to me how much of this is coming down to miscommunication, or lack of communication, and bad timing. Elizabeth assumes Oleg got the message, and passed it on. Nobody can just text or email each other and be sure a message got through. They're calling from payphones, maybe getting an answering machine. I wonder if a reason they showed the call from Philip to Henry post Chicago, only for Henry to be unavailable, was that one, they wanted to show a disconnect between father and son, but two, because we'll recognize the pattern when they try him again from a payphone en route to New Hampshire but he's not around to take the call. Maybe we'll get to see Elizabeth infiltrate a hockey match to pull him off the ice!

[Cardie]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

For his story to have emotional weight, I think that he has to find out two pieces of information - that Philip killed Amador and that Philip married Martha - but I don't know how he comes upon this information.

Yes. Stan needs to know the whole Amador story, in particular, to make him realize that these situations are very nuanced and misreading them leads to fatal errors.

[SunnyBeBe]

I wonder how many minutes they will devote to convincing Henry to leave.  He's a pretty headstrong young man.  Plus, he LOVES his school.  Why in the world would he agree to take off, on the spot, without any real reason?  The only thing that I can think of is that Paige lies and says that one their parents is hurt and they need him immediately. But, then, when he sees they are okay, he would bolt.  So, I just don't get how they really intend to pull this off.  I wonder now if they will call Henry, say their goodbyes and head for the border instead of getting Henry. 

[AMDG]

I would think that Stan/FBI will get to the school before P/E do.

[SunnyBeBe]

22 minutes ago, AMDG said:

I would think that Stan/FBI will get to the school before P/E do.

Yeah, so why don't P & E know that?  If they go that route, it's just a suicide mission. Unless they think they can somehow rescue him out without the police noticing.....lol.  I mean, it's them and Paige as a backup.  Not looking too promising. 

[BingeyKohan]

Spoiler tagging this because it refers to the previews and the thread where you don't have to spoiler tag just doesn't get as much discussion:

Spoiler

Obviously they're in a tough spot with what they can put in the preview for next week's episode (although you could also argue the opposite and say why not make a really suspenseful one since obviously you're not going to suddenly attract first time viewers next week; I actually don't think next week's previews were particularly suspenseful...they have photos of the Jennings so not sure why they need more accurate sketches, and 'I'm going to kill 'em' is too silly to mean the Jennings...I wonder if Stan is finding out some other agency has had those drawings for a while and they've never seen them.)

Anyway what I really began this to say is interesting they didn't put Henry's face in the preview at all. That makes me worry a little - you couldn't isolate one quick frame of him that wouldn't be too revealing but that shows we'll actually see him? Maybe they wanted to create a sense of doubt they'd make it to New Hampshire. Maybe the plan changes after that garage conversation and the car is headed somewhere else. Maybe any scene with Henry has other people in the frame we're not meant to see him with yet. Maybe Keidrich grew an Oleg-like beard by the time they filmed and they're pissed at him and are still digitally removing it! (Jk.) No Henry face makes me most nervous of all! I bet anything with a Jennings in it from the preview happens very early in next week's episode.

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm not sure if you can answer this without spoiler tags,

Spoiler

but, what is making you nervous about Henry's face?

[BingeyKohan]

9 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm not sure if you can answer this without spoiler tags,

  Hide contents

but, what is making you nervous about Henry's face?

Sorry to have created this game of peekaboo!

Spoiler

Just that they don't show it all - there's not a frame of him coming to the phone, or opening a door, or just a close-up to show us he's actually in the finale? Seems weird to me. It wouldn't give anything away and it's not gonna make anybody say, eh, i see everyone makes it to the finale - no reason to tune in! We see Paige's face 2x when 1 instance would have worked. So either he's not in it (unlikely) or he's in it very fleetingly and it goes really wrong and they couldn't show it at all. Which is what makes me nervous, I guess.

ETA: I just thought about it and see now it's just part of their ongoing joke - of them (and us) always saying "Where's Henry?" The preview literally makes you say "where's henry?"

Edited May 24, 2018 by BingeyKohan

[Bannon]

Look, if Stan doesn't positively I.D. Phil in the first minutes of the episode and the FBI doesn't immediately pick up Henry, just on the basis of he being a material witness to a homicidal criminal operation, well before Liz and Phil can drive to New Hampshire, that's bad writing. If they write a scene where Phil and Liz actually successfully grab up Henry under the FBI's noses, as the FBI stakes him out, we know the writers have been dropping acid. Hoping for the best.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 minute ago, BingeyKohan said:

Sorry to have created this game of peekaboo!

  Hide contents

Just that they don't show it all - there's not a frame of him coming to the phone, or opening a door, or just a close-up to show us he's actually in the finale? Seems weird to me. It wouldn't give anything away and it's not gonna make anybody say, eh, i see everyone makes it to the finale - no reason to tune in! We see Paige's face 2x when 1 instance would have worked. So either he's not in it (unlikely) or he's in it very fleetingly and it goes really wrong and they couldn't show it at all. Which is what makes me nervous, I guess.

Okay.  I'm taking my take on it to the Spoiler thread. 

[Umbelina]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

They would go to Canada and straight to the Rezidentura there.

They probably shouldn't even tell Henry before getting him into the car. But yeah it seems like a suicide mission. That's one reason I didn't get why Elizabeth was so cool about him being at school 

That was the original plan, going to the Residentura, but much of the KGB is against Gorbachev, and Elizabeth just killed Tatiana, who is also a heavy hitter.

I think they know going for Henry is extremely dangerous, they are doing it anyway ...

3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I think that the finale must give us more substance with Stan's story line. Not necessarily lots of screen time but pivotal screen time.

He didn't convince Aderholt about P&E (yet). Oleg didn't acquiesce (yet?). Frankly, he doesn't have anything substantive on P&E and they are now on the run. He snooped around their house and came up with "cigarettes." He called Pastor Tim and came up with nothing that matters. 

For his story to have emotional weight, I think that he has to find out two pieces of information - that Philip killed Amador and that Philip married Martha - but I don't know how he comes upon this information.

Stan has a lot of questions to ask himelf about what he overlooked and what he values. What will drive his actions? 
 

I think it will have emotional weight.  Remember the first seasons 1-4?  They were able to fit in a LOT in a short time, and this is an extended episode.  I know the writers are capable of it, and I know the writers are certainly going to try very hard to have an emotionally satisfying ending, so I do have hope.

3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Then what? They are already on the run. Stan would likely assume that they are headed to Henry's boarding school in NH and have agents on alert. However, for Stan's character arc to matter, doesn't he have to learn the depths of Philip's duplicity? How does that happen? I'm hoping for confrontation between Philip and Stan that isn't necessarily violent but honest. 

Same answer really.  Look what Stan did in those short scenes with Oleg.  He started out as a bombastic, single minded FBI hunter, not caring about anything BUT catching the illegals.  He ended it, bonded with Oleg.  Oleg, his old friend/enemy?  Got through to him. 

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

There's no doubt we're getting some version if that scene. Imo.

Oleg is spying on KGB agents in the US. That would probably not make him considered loyal, as Tatiana said. 

Some of the biggest people in Government and the KGB are against Gorbachev, and very much against abandoning "all they fought for" just like Claudia, they don't want to abandon communism.  Arkady is against them, as well as some others.

Philip and Elizabeth are now dead center in that war, AND being hunted by the FBI.

I honestly see absolutely no pleasant way out.

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Yes to all of that but that isn't my question. I'm not interested in Stan physically looking at the sketches and saying "WOW" while a light bulb goes on above his head.  I'm interested in Stan's emotional arc that causes him to question his instincts, loyalties and life's work. Stan has been portrayed - depending on your point of view - as clueless, damaged, compromised, conflicted, etc. He is one of the main characters in this show and, IMO, his character arc will not be complete unless we see a heart-to-heart with Philip that addresses the authenticity of their relationship. 

My original point is that I think that Stan occupies a lot of time in the finale.

I am too, I think we all are.  He's already had his lightbulb moments.  The emotional part will be next, I honestly can't see the writers not giving us that.

2 hours ago, Erin9 said:

Thing is- Philip never went looking for Stan. Stan moved in. He didn’t look to create this. He got stuck in a situation that was highly dangerous to himself and his family.  He didn’t pump Stan for info because that would have been dumb on his part. 

I kinda hope Amador gets left out of this. Unless Philip gets a full say into what happened. He followed Philip, was looking for a fight, forced one out of jealousy- not realizing he was taking on the KGB. Philip tried to walk away. It might be nice though for Stan to realize just how cold his murder of Vlad truly was though. 

But, really, I have no desire to hear a conversation that includes Stan being super judgmental and self righteous if it comes down to exact crimes he’s committed. I’ve watched Philip struggle with it all enough for years. I’d prefer it if the conversation was more about them and their relationship not what Philip did or didn’t do in the name of his country. 

I just hope Stan is capable of some nuance if they do talk. Hard to say based on how stupidly he handled not one, but two, conversations with Oleg.

We did see Stan do both with Oleg though.  He started out judgemental and single minded, but Oleg brought back a broader view, and Stan heard it. 

2 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Until relatively recently, pretty much any form of ID would be enough to get you across the border. Certainly in the 80s a photo driver's license would be enough. And Liz took passports from the laundry room, so the "go-bag" was ready.

There are many ways across that border that don't involve going through the border check, especially back then.  I'd bet Philip and Elizabeth know every one of them, since that has always been their escape plan.

2 hours ago, hellmouse said:

I agree about Stan being capable of nuance. He seemed to have regressed in his conversations with Oleg. It's like he was still giving his Thanksgiving "toast". If he's going to just have some kind of self-righteous anger/gung ho patriotism when dealing with Philip, then I'd rather not see it. 

I actually liked Stan less after last night's episode. He just seemed boorishly clueless. 

Honestly, am I the only one that saw the last conversation with Oleg and Stan.  Are people so disgusted with his character that no one else noticed the ending?  I'm not singling you out, everyone seems to be saying that.  I'd recommend a re-watch.  "Real" Stan came back at the end, the more thoughtful, less FBI Stan, the one that fought for Nina and for Oleg.

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wonder how many minutes they will devote to convincing Henry to leave.  He's a pretty headstrong young man.  Plus, he LOVES his school.  Why in the world would he agree to take off, on the spot, without any real reason?  The only thing that I can think of is that Paige lies and says that one their parents is hurt and they need him immediately. But, then, when he sees they are okay, he would bolt.  So, I just don't get how they really intend to pull this off.  I wonder now if they will call Henry, say their goodbyes and head for the border instead of getting Henry. 

I can't see ANY way Henry would agree to go.  I just can't.  I don't think he will have to bolt, I think he will refuse from the jump.  "I have a hockey game tonight and my chem final in the morning, what are you TALKING about?"  Frankly, after that showdown with Paige and Elizabeth? (Well done Holly Taylor!) I have a hard time believing even Paige would go willingly, she seemed done with her mother and the KGB shit.  I know, for story, she will go, but why?

46 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, so why don't P & E know that?  If they go that route, it's just a suicide mission. Unless they think they can somehow rescue him out without the police noticing.....lol.  I mean, it's them and Paige as a backup.  Not looking too promising. 

I think they know it's incredibly risky.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

can't see ANY way Henry would agree to go.  I just can't.  I don't think he will have to bolt, I think he will refuse from the jump.  "I have a hockey game tonight and my chem final in the morning, what are you TALKING about?"  Frankly, after that showdown with Paige and Elizabeth? (Well done Holly Taylor!) I have a hard time believing even Paige would go willingly, she seemed done with her mother and the KGB shit.  I know, for story, she will go, but why?

Oh I can totally see Henry going depending on the set up. I could believe either way. It would depend on how they do it. Paige we'll have to see where she is and how they do it.  

[Ellaria]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Honestly, am I the only one that saw the last conversation with Oleg and Stan.  Are people so disgusted with his character that no one else noticed the ending?  I'm not singling you out, everyone seems to be saying that.  I'd recommend a re-watch.  "Real" Stan came back at the end, the more thoughtful, less FBI Stan, the one that fought for Nina and for Oleg.

No - you aren't. I said that in my original episode post...that the conversation between the two was important...that it was all about why they do what they do.

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Same answer really.  Look what Stan did in those short scenes with Oleg.  He started out as a bombastic, single minded FBI hunter, not caring about anything BUT catching the illegals.  He ended it, bonded with Oleg.  Oleg, his old friend/enemy?  Got through to him...

We did see Stan do both with Oleg though.  He started out judgemental and single minded, but Oleg brought back a broader view, and Stan heard it. 

Agree - not sure why you think that I was taking an opposing point of view. I want to see it inform Stan's actions. I know that he heard it. I want to see what he does with it. One doesn't necessarily equate to the other.

[Umbelina]

On 5/15/2018 at 3:16 PM, Umbelina said:

Here are my final predictions at this point.

• Paige may die via jumping into the Potomac or water, as noted in another thread by some astute posters.  (baptism, swimming pool, all kinds of Paige water images during the run of the show.)
• I really think Philip dies saving Stan from a bullet or knife, probably from Elizabeth
• Elizabeth escapes back to the USSR and meets up with Misha, she tells Misha about his father, and they develop a parent/child vibe, since Henry is still back in the USA, and Paige is dead.  Musical montage of the two of them ends the show, complete with flashbacks.

My original speculations above, then I added this one below.

On 5/18/2018 at 3:15 PM, Umbelina said:

 

I suspect we will get a long musical montage at the end of the show.  One tiny little scene in that montage will be Renee leaving work at the FBI, maybe they are even celebrating their HUGE win in rounding up the embedded KGB spies.)  Renee will then do something small, like a brush pass, a dead drop, or pulling out her KGB one-time pad to read a message.  One tiny thing that will tell us, "yes, the FBI had a big win, but the KGB is still here."

I'm changing the one about Elizabeth though, after last night's show.

Elizabeth will have to face "leaving someone to die" or failing to complete her mission (currently, escaping.)  Just as in that flashback with the horse/motorcycle and guy pleading to help him.  This time?  She WILL help, and either die or be captured.  Who is the one she helps though?  Henry?  Paige?  Stan?  Philip?

Also, Renee, chalk, Mailbox in the montage. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I wonder if they will explain to Henry on the phone, what is going on and give him instructions for where to go to get extricated. But, he doesn't show up and perhaps, tells Stan where to go to find them.  That would be a big blow, but, I kind of get it.  Or, they could be listening on the phone when they call and Henry can't alert them of that fact as they give him instructions. 

[SusanSunflower]

As I recall with Jared, they met at a station/terminal somewhere midway ... which would make sense if Paige could convince Henry to meet her somewhere "halfway" perhaps because she needed his advice about a crisis.  All Henry needs to do to avoid Stan/FBI is to be somewhere else when they arrive (unless they sensibly use local field agents to determine and secure his location.  The truth can wait until his location is altered and there's time for a serious discussion.   I think Paige, because of her absence, may be the only family member Henry would accommodate without an argument.  

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

No - you aren't. I said that in my original episode post...that the conversation between the two was important...that it was all about why they do what they do.

Agree - not sure why you think that I was taking an opposing point of view. I want to see it inform Stan's actions. I know that he heard it. I want to see what he does with it. One doesn't necessarily equate to the other.

Oh, not you!  It has been said by so many, even the PTV recapper I think (sorry if I'm wrong about that.) 

I thought the Stan/Oleg scenes were fantastic, and believable.

Oh, and something else, I don't think Aderholt thinks Stan is nuts here.  Aderholt and Stan's "feelings/intuition" have a history.  Stan suspected Martha when no one else did, and he suspected Zenaida when no one else did.  Aderholt has learned to listen to Stan's instincts.  His first reaction was of course, WTF?  But that last look?  I think Aderholt was remembering all the times Stan was right, and rethinking his first reactions.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Umbelina

[Ellaria]

Just now, Umbelina said:

 

Oh, and something else, I don't think Aderholt thinks Stan is nuts here.  Aderholt and Stan's "feelings/intuition" have a history.  Stan suspected Martha when no one else did, and he suspected Zenaida when no one else did.  Aderholt has learned to listen to Stan's instincts.

 

Yes - and this is important. Aderholt and Stan worked together for a period of time. They would know to trust each other's instincts. Since Stan is the one with the "instincts that matter" right now, I also believe that Aderholt listens. Frankly, he has to, if the FBI is going to get involved with P&E as they head to NH.

Assuming that Stan knows that they are on the run...

Spoiler

 

and, according to the previews, he calls their home and gets the answering machine. 2 + 2

 

...it is logical for him to believe that they are headed to Henry in NH. Who gets there first?

[Umbelina]

What's kind of annoying really?

It's NOT logical to go get Henry.  That could happen later, they don't have to do it now.   I know they are following their pre-arranged escape plan, but PLEASE, things have changed. 

They are too good to make that kind of mistake.  Wait, maybe they discuss it in the car, and the dead horse/motorcycle accident is why Elizabeth refuses to leave Henry, and insists they follow the plan?

[Bannon]

The minute Stan can't get Phil or Liz on the phone, he has to have field agents in Manchester go to pick up Henry at school. Please, oh, please, writers; don't give Stan a two digit iq in the finale.

I actually thought Stan was appropriately hard ass in the beginning of his conversation with Oleg. There are corpses stacked to the horizon, and he doesn't have 30 years of hindsight to evaluate internal Soviet conflicts, and he has an illegal (which is what Oleg is now) in his custody who had coded communication on him. He's got to lean on a prisoner like that pretty hard, just to gauge the reaction, if nothing else. He has no business conferring innocence on anyone yet. I thought it was one of the better written scenes for Stan.

[Erin9]

55 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

No - you aren't. I said that in my original episode post...that the conversation between the two was important...that it was all about why they do what they do.

Agree - not sure why you think that I was taking an opposing point of view. I want to see it inform Stan's actions. I know that he heard it. I want to see what he does with it. One doesn't necessarily equate to the other.

I know Stan heard Oleg. How well he truly listened, and then how much that matters in the end, is debatable since Stan hasn’t said or done anything yet. I’ll judge what Stan actually took away from what Oleg said based on the finale. For now- he totally irritated me. To put it mildly. 

It occurred to me that Stan’s frequent tunnel vision is both a blessing and a curse for him. 

[Anela]

On 5/20/2018 at 5:16 PM, AllyB said:

I have a boring guess. We know that the Jennings were at least in part inspired by the Foley/Heathfield family of KGB and later SVR agents who were caught in 2010. So maybe the Jennings fate will be similar. The FBI will catch them, they will be arrested, a prisoner exchange will be arranged and within a couple of weeks all 4 Jennings will be in Russia. A potentially anti-climactic ending but still one with potential for drama. It also ties with why Henry has been kept in the dark as the speculation on the Foleys is that the elder boy knew his parents' secret while the younger genuinely had no idea.

I read about them before, but googled again. They took the names of their mother? Were they not Heathfield's biological children? I'm not bothered at all, it just surprised me. 

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

It's NOT logical to go get Henry.  That could happen later, they don't have to do it now.   I know they are following their pre-arranged escape plan, but PLEASE, things have changed. 

They are too good to make that kind of mistake.  Wait, maybe they discuss it in the car, and the dead horse/motorcycle accident is why Elizabeth refuses to leave Henry, and insists they follow the plan?

I was thinking the same thing as I was driving home. (I'm clearly going to be obsessing over this show until the finale.) It isn't logical. They have to suspect that Stan and his merry band would go straight there.

Frankly - and here is my prediction - P&E&P never get to NH. They get stopped long before. 

[Trillian]

5 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

Until relatively recently, pretty much any form of ID would be enough to get you across the border. Certainly in the 80s a photo driver's license would be enough. And Liz took passports from the laundry room, so the "go-bag" was ready.

Until sometime after 9/11, it was common to cross the US/Canada border without any ID at all - especially when coming IN to Canada. I always found the US border guards more suspicious, but even then, they usually didn’t ask for ID. I once crossed back, with a bus load of young athletes I was managing, with the Canadian border guard coming on the bus and calling out “everyone here is a Canadian citizen, right?”, while vigorously nodding his head and simultaneously waving us through.  Parents with one or two kids, with Canadian plates - I assume at least one of those plates Elizabeth grabbed was Canadian, although I didn’t get a good look - would be waved right through in the 80s. 

[Cardie]

Since Canada has long been the escape plan, I assume some of those passports are Canadian.