S03.E07: The Most Powerful Man in the World (and His Identical Twin Brother)

[WearyTraveler]

Good article on the episode: http://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/05/the-leftovers-season-3-episode-7-explained-recap-kevin-afterlife-nora-theories-s03e07/ 

[tennisgurl]

To me, this episode just confirms that the show has never really been about some massive cosmic event, its about how people deal with loss, and their attempts at finding meaning in a world that seems to lack meaning. They find God, they join annoying cults, they become self destructive, and then, maybe, they move on. I think that might be where this was going all the time. Kevin realized that he has to let go of the part of him that hates himself and wants to be alone with misery, and embrace Life and his relationship with Nora and his family. He got rid of the International Assassin Universe (I think this confirms that this universe is basically some kind of Kevin based alternate reality, or a delusion to help him work through his issues. Maybe) so he can actually commit to the real world, and living his life. The whole show is about how people NEED to find reasons for why things, both good and bad, happen, even if there really isn't a reason. Things happen, and people react to it in good or bad ways. After all, the theme song of last season was all about "I think I`ll just let the mystery be". I never thought we were going to get any real answers on this show, because its not about the actual event, its about how people reacted to it, and how they deal with their confusion and grief.

I think, for the first time, that Nora and Kevin will be end game. And I'm totally alright with that. I don't care if its trite, I want what I want. Besides, I think it could actually fit the theme of the show. Nora and Kevin realize that they need to let go of their issues, and finally let go of their grief.

It was actually super cool to see Patti and Meg again, and Patti and Kevin are always a treat together. I was totally convinced that the VP was going to be Laurie, but it was Meg! I was surprisingly happy to see her, even though when she got blown up, I was rooting for the droids. Its nice that they closed to chapter on some of the reoccurring elements of the show (Patti and Meg, the GR, the International Assassin universe) before the series closes out. I just cant believe that this show is almost over!

[Clanstarling]

I'm not sure about the endgame, but I totally agree with you on what the show is, ultimately, about.

[maystone]

20 hours ago, Pallas said:

I like the idea of an Immortality Syndrome, and the very different responses of David Burton and Kevin. As Australia's Olympian decathlete and Voice of the Sydney Games, Burton didn't have the option of trying to keep his resurrection on the down-low. When public reaction became too much for him, he became a quasi-hermit -- and now and then indulged himself by playing God. But in a more secular culture, with no loved ones forcing themselves on him as apostles, and without a yen for martyrdom: "That's putting a lot on someone," as both he and Laurie said.   

Burton's recovery "without a scratch" from a climbing fall that broke his neck, seems more implausible than any of Kevin's. I think Burton serves as a corrective on two ideas: that Kevin is unique, either in his destiny or in his "bio-physics;" and that Kevin has been chosen due to some exceptional quality. The formerly immortal David Burton was an asshole. As asshole like some of the Departed, who as a group were also not exceptional or virtuous: Matt got that right. What Kevin Sr. got right was that Kevin Jr.'s not an assassin, he's an escape artist. Just a guy who likes to blame himself when other people go away, and blame other people when he wants to leave. Not an asshole, just that kind of asshole: the kind who puts a lot on everyone because he wants them to happy, without him.

Yes! Very well said. One question though: Why do you think that Kevin had a yen for martyrdom? He drank the poison because he wanted to put an end to Patti's visitations. The next time, John just up and shot him. The multiple drownings were at the insistence of his dad and John who were using him as a messenger service. Everyone involved in those last ones believed that Kevin would resurrect.

I was thinking that the story was written so that none of the women believed that Kevin regularly died and returned, while all of the men did. And not only did the men believe it, they all ascribed great meaning, great purpose to it. The outlier to this theory is Grace, who most certainly believed that there was a Kevin who could travel back and forth between life and death, but she'd never met him. She had blind faith.

The only one who got Kevin right was Patti, and she was a construct of his own mind. (Or at least after-death Patti was.) So I have to figure that every person Kevin ran into in his various post-death adventures was ultimately himself, or more accurately some aspect of himself trying to teach Kevin to listen and learn. My jaw dropped when Patti, as Secretary of Defense, rounded on Kevin yelling that they were giving the people what they wanted - they all wanted to die! Because yeah, based on what happened in Certified, it sure seemed that way. It was Laurie's "We're all gone, Kevin," just louder and angrier.

The scene where Kevin kills his twin. Man. "God only knows where I'd be without you." That song never fails to bring tears to my eyes, and used in this scene it just about did me in. One review I read thought that the song was aimed at Nora, but not for my money. That was Kevin talking to the part of him that had kept running away from the things that would make him whole.

And speaking of music, I'd guess that some of you didn't get the reference when Patti busted out that "Kevins! They're identical Kevins in every way!" That was the theme song to the Patty Duke show where she played identical cousins Patty and Cathy. "Cousins! They're identical cousins in every way. One pair of matching bookends, as different as night and day." That was the last thing I expected to hear sung in The Leftovers :)

Personal backstory on the end song, "The End of the World." The song came out right before the Cuban Missile Crisis and sped to the top of the charts. It was pulled from the airways when the crisis reached its height, and we thought the nukes were going to start flying. I was in a parochial school at the time. They sent us all home early one day and told us to pray. Scared the living crap out of me. So that song has always had a special meaning for me and no doubt others who remember those days.

The original recording was by Skeeter Davis. The cover used over the end credits was done by Patty Duke. Isn't that neat?

Edited May 31, 2017 by maystone
Skeeter Davis, not Lesley Gore

[Mindthinkr]

On 5/29/2017 at 4:34 AM, crookedjackson44 said:

After watching last night's episode, I retired to bed to read a little more of Sir James Frazer's The Golden Bough (I'm weird like that).  And I was amazed to discover, as he writes of Osiris, the dead and resurrected great god of Egypt, that he as depicted "erect between the guardian wings of the faithful Isis, who stands behind him" (436).  Is that not almost exactly what the show's imagery displays?  This cannot be a coincidence.  It's just brilliant.

Loved this. ^^^^

I remember "The End of the World" by Skeeter Davis back in the early 60's. It was one of the few things (the record) of my sisters that my parents didn't get rid of (I hid it) after she died. After watching this I'm getting a lot of weird thoughts and wonder what it would be like to do a 'Kevin' and go to the separate reality and see her one more time. 

Also loved the Patty Duke song. 

[Clanstarling]

13 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I remember "The End of the World" by Skeeter Davis back in the early 60's.

Just before we watched this episode, we watched a Master of None episode, and Skeeter Davis's song "Gonna Get Along Without You Now" was part of the soundtrack. We reminisced about her version of "the End of the World." Then it showed up in Leftovers (though it was Patty Duke's cover). I hadn't thought of her in at least a decade, and within a few hours I heard two of her songs. Weird coincidence. If I were one for omens and portents....I could make some bullshit meaning out of it - like some of the Leftovers.

[Domestic Assassin]

Quote

Yes! Very well said. One question though: Why do you think that Kevin had a yen for martyrdom? He drank the poison because he wanted to put an end to Patti's visitations. The next time, John just up and shot him. The multiple drownings were at the insistence of his dad and John who were using him as a messenger service. Everyone involved in those last ones believed that Kevin would resurrect.

I think for Kevin, while he told himself that the multiple drownings were in service of everyone else's wants, what this episode made him confront is that the real reason he was doing it was because he genuinely wanted to die because he fucked up with Nora. 

Quote

Personal backstory on the end song, "The End of the World." The song came out right before the Cuban Missile Crisis and sped to the top of the charts. It was pulled from the airways when the crisis reached its height, and we thought the nukes were going to start flying. I was in a parochial school at the time. They sent us all home early one day and told us to pray. Scared the living crap out of me. So that song has always had a special meaning for me and no doubt others who remember those days.

I always associate "The End of the World" with the JFK assassination episode of Mad Men.  I loved it there, but it got to me just as much in this episode.

[Lady Iris]

If any show needed a recap it was this one. Does anybody know why we stopped getting them? Thanks.

[Mindthinkr]

16 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

If any show needed a recap it was this one. Does anybody know why we stopped getting them? Thanks.

Vulture has a recap as well as heavy.com. If you google The Leftovers Season 3 Episode 7 you'll see various choices. Sorry that I can't post a clickable link. Hope this helps. 

I'm just reading the one by Heavy.com and they brought the music that was played when he left Nora...a nice tidbit/tie in. 

[MorbidPet]

On 2017-05-30 at 6:01 AM, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

I love everything about this picture. I want a Kevin & Nora endgame. I'm not even sorry for wanting it. 

 

On 2017-05-30 at 6:26 PM, tennisgurl said:

I think, for the first time, that Nora and Kevin will be end game. And I'm totally alright with that. I don't care if its trite, I want what I want. Besides, I think it could actually fit the theme of the show. Nora and Kevin realize that they need to let go of their issues, and finally let go of their grief.

I love this show so much and this episode was one of the best of the season (even tho it contained very little Nora). I think I'll be fine with whatever ending we'll get but Kevin & Nora as endgame would please me a whole lot. That and a smile from future Nora would be delightful as an end to this crazy ride.

[Kbilly]

Quote

"The End of the World" 

Always reminds me of "Girl Interrupted"

Lost had a thing in the flash forwards where there were always mirrors-reflections so bringing up the "don't look at anything reflective" made me automatically think of that.

I liked that Sr. was sitting on the roof like the end-of-the-world believers from the beginning of the season but I thought he might be more surprised to see Kevin was alive? After being so frightened that he had died? 

I liked when he said "We fucked up with Nora"

Where did the shoes go??

The nukes coming in was a scary image in these times!

I have to admit I don't know what the hell is going on but like you all I like staring at Justin Thoreaux through my confusion.

[Mindthinkr]

When Kevin was on the roof watching the missle launch, did anyone else think of the lights In the sky that were on the CBS series Under the Dome? 

[WearyTraveler]

I've just had a thought about the finale.  We saw that future Nora had some facial scars.  What if Kevin goes looking for her and stops her from using the frying machine while the process is already started? What if this is the reason she says she doesn't know him in the future?

[Penman61]

1 hour ago, WearyTraveler said:

I've just had a thought about the finale.  We saw that future Nora had some facial scars. 

I've re-watched that scene, and I'm not convinced that that isn't just aging make-up that's barely standing up to HD close-up scrutiny, rather than make-up to look like Nora has scarring.  JMHO.

[Pallas]

On 5/30/2017 at 6:15 PM, maystone said:

Why do you think that Kevin had a yen for martyrdom?

"Martyrdom" may be too strong, at least in the religious sense. I meant the way that in his home life -- with the women he loved, in the houses he hated -- Kevin played Good Cop, with Bad Cop biding his time. All in the name of, "You wanted it...I wanted you to be happy..."  

4 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

We saw that future Nora had some facial scars.  What if Kevin goes looking for her and stops her from using the frying machine while the process is already started? What if this is the reason she says she doesn't know him in the future?

Nora didn't exactly say she didn't know him; the nun's question was, "Does the name 'Kevin' mean anything to you?"  Answer: "No, and fuck your daughter."

[Lady Iris]

20 hours ago, Kbilly said:

The nukes coming in was a scary image in these times!

Uncomfortably took me back to "The Day After" from the 80's.

I'm not looking forward to the finale next week. I'm gonna miss these characters and Justin Theroux on my tv. I still can't believe sometimes that he was a screenwriter for "Tropic Thunder" which is one of my favorite movies.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Lady Iris

[maystone]

19 hours ago, Pallas said:

"Martyrdom" may be too strong, at least in the religious sense. I meant the way that in his home life -- with the women he loved, in the houses he hated -- Kevin played Good Cop, with Bad Cop biding his time. All in the name of, "You wanted it...I wanted you to be happy..."  

Nora didn't exactly say she didn't know him; the nun's question was, "Does the name 'Kevin' mean anything to you?"  Answer: "No, and fuck your daughter."

Ah, I get it now. Yeah, very good point, Pallas.

[Uncle Milty]

All the comments here are stunning!  I am more than pleased to be among so many astute and deeply-thoughtful people.  I'm glad to see the mention of Patty Duke-not just for the theme song-but the end song, as well.  I also enjoyed the irony of Patti Levin singing  the Patty Duke Show theme song. -Talk about two un-identical Patties!....

One very important point I'd like to make that I did not see made anywhere else-(and it may have been that I just didn't see it):::

"The Most Powerful Man In The World" began with the original series theme song from Season One, which I find very poignant. Because of this, it would be consistent-(and a great punctuation mark)-for "The Book Of Nora" to open with Season Two's Opening Credits song, Iris DeMent's "Let The Mystery Be." -We'll see...

-I agree-this show has been about our collective and individual mortality and how we deal with Loss.  But I also believe that so many of these series-including The Leftovers,  Lost, The Walking Dead and so many others, are clearly about what do we -as people,  do - if civilization, everything we believe about life, begins to break down.  Such circumstances always reveal who we really are.  And there is always a metaphor to our present world in that.  That, I believe is what art, in part,  is supposed to be about: Helping us deal with the dangers and questions we face, real or imagined.  -Talk about, (as Nora might say) -an elaborate coping mechanism...

[Cardie]

3 hours ago, Uncle Milty said:

Patti Levin singing  the Patty Duke Show theme song. -Talk about two un-identical Patties!....

Even better is Patti LEVIN singing about identical KEVINs!

[Dminches]

On 5/28/2017 at 10:21 PM, stagmania said:

I laughed out loud at the bits with Patti's glasses. Just the perfect little tension breaking moments. 

Yes, all dead, but they were also all people he knew were dead. He had no reason to see Laurie there, because he doesn't know what she did. This place, whatever it is, is shaped by Kevin's experiences and losses. 

That part confused me since Kevin didn't know that Burton/God had been killed a couple days before although that character was in 2 prior "dead" scenes.  And if Burton was in prior "dead" scenes maybe he really was god?

[Pallas]

On 6/15/2017 at 6:33 PM, Dminches said:

That part confused me since Kevin didn't know that Burton/God had been killed a couple days before although that character was in 2 prior "dead" scenes.  And if Burton was in prior "dead" scenes maybe he really was god?

The (second) death of David Burton -- mauled by a lion, no less, after committing murder -- would have gotten a lot of coverage in Australia. We know Grace has coverage at the ranch. As the only witness to the murder, Matt may have been interviewed. And if the coverage didn't mention that Burton was styling himself as God, Matt could have told Kevin himself, once tey were together at the ranch. 

Burton first "died" (we're told by the ferry's captain) three-four years before the seventh anniversary. That corresponds to the times, about 12 hours apart, when Kevin died in Jarden. (I understand that a newscast heard by Kevin makes mention of Burton's death, as well.) So there Burton was, in something like the same state as Kevin, at the same place at the same time. I agree that his resurrection from a long fall, broken neck and exposure beats even Kevin's surviving being buried by a member of Erika's family in Miracle earth, or not bleeding out from John's bullet.

But that doesn't make him God. Lazarus was just a guy in the right place at the right time.

[BooBear]

On 5/29/2017 at 6:01 AM, loki567 said:

One good thing about this show ending, I never have to see one of these, "International Assassin," episodes again. So bad. 

I tremendously enjoyed this last year but this year... I thought it was pushing it. Thankfully Patti did point out that Kevin keeps saying at the end of every trip he wants to go home but, he doesn't.  He really wants to run away.   IF we had gotten some definitive acceptance of that from Kevin maybe I wouldn't have felt it was yet another rerun but, at the end he is back to he needs to get with Nora. Why? Why Kevin. You get with her and then you want to leave. Just like Laurie and then you lie to them and yourself about it.  I also was a little miffed that we can't even use the setting of Miracle to explain away why he can't die.  For Kevin to truly be happy he needs to just visit Nora on an occasional basis. 

While I enjoyed seeing everyone -especially Patti and Kevin smacking the glasses right off her face - it didn't seem to advance the ball for me.  Just felt like stall. 

[Negritude]

HBO is doing a free preview weekend so I'm just now watching but I wanted to see if anyone else saw a similarity with the show "The OA." In that show the main character dies over and over to cross into another dimension to learn movements that will stop some cataclysmic event. Kevin dies over and over to try to learn a song to stop the end of the world. I dont think one borrowed from the other, they were probably shooting this before The OA was even released. But if this plot point is in the Leftovers novel (which I haven't read so I don't know), then...?

Edited July 15, 2017 by Negritude

[Clanstarling]

17 minutes ago, Negritude said:

HBO is doing a free preview weekend so I'm just now watching but I wanted to see if anyone else saw a similarity with the show "The OA." In that show the main character dies over and over to cross into another dimension to learn movements that will stop some cataclysmic event. Kevin dies over and over to try to learn a song to stop the end of the world. I dont think one borrowed from the other, they were probably shooting this before The OA was even released. But if this plot point is in the Leftovers novel (which I haven't read so I don't know), then...?

That plot isn't in the novel - which only covered the first season, if I recall correctly.

I watched the OA a little on Netflix (last year, I think...). I didn't stick with it long enough to see if there were similarities. Possibly because The Leftovers satisfied my "weird shit" needs at the time. But there are certainly times when multiple shows have similar storylines/aspects and you can't help but wonder why.

[Negritude]

53 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

That plot isn't in the novel - which only covered the first season, if I recall correctly.

I watched the OA a little on Netflix (last year, I think...). I didn't stick with it long enough to see if there were similarities. Possibly because The Leftovers satisfied my "weird shit" needs at the time. But there are certainly times when multiple shows have similar storylines/aspects and you can't help but wonder why.

Hope that wasn't a spoiler. Its pretty much the whole plot of the series so I thought it would be ok. 

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Negritude said:

Hope that wasn't a spoiler. Its pretty much the whole plot of the series so I thought it would be ok. 

I don't think so - at least not for me. I don't have any plans to watch it, and I think that information was more or less in the series description, IIRC.