Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

Someone on /Freefolk went poking around on IMDB and noted that the Mountain's actor has a stunt double credited for 8x05 and 8x06. Since many crew members are credited already on IMDB for episodes on which they worked, I looked around to see if there was anything noteworthy.

1. The only Spain 2019 credits are for 8x06 (production managers, e.g.).

2. A makeup artist is credited as a "contact lens technician" for 8x05. Her only other episode as a contact lens technician was 7x06.

3. Stunt performers are credited for 8x01, 8x03, 8x05, and 8x06.

4. A marine coordinator is credited for 8x01, 8x04, 8x05, and 8x06.

[GrailKing]

From Reddit: Speculate away.

 

Posted byu/claytoy
My mind is my weapon2 hours ago
Information on one of the last scenes of Night King
She could not tell the exact location as deep winter shots make all places look alike, but since they are getting only a particular lot of shots of a particular time taken at a particular studio, there may be a very little chance that this is a KL shot at some open place. But it can be elsewhere, the place is pure speculation. Now in this scene crows and ravens come, not just one or two of them, but seems like all crows of the seven kingdom joined. These crows come flying in a spiraling motion, similar sort of spiral patterns that are shown in the Children of the Forest work, they come spirally and attack the Night King, the Night King kills of one after another of them, many of them, but there are really too many of them. Now something other stuff happens while this is going on that she has no clue of, because the shot is with parts and interludes, interleaving with some other simultaneous shots that she does not know about. She does have a speculation though.

Few days ago one of them had worked on a shot in which Bran experiences a seizure and 'seems like' he falls into death, still and calm. She 'speculates' that this may happen after the Night King kills off last of the crows that he warged into, although his armor gets quite torn and he becomes almost barenaked, possibly vulnerable to weapon attack now, but there was no weapon attack in that scene. By the way, her speculation that Bran may have died in that scene after the last crow warged died is a mere guess, and cannot be considered an info, and even Bran's death in that scene is a speculation, he may be just unconscious, so that is also not an info. Just the attack and his (Night King's) damage of armor can be considered as an info.

And as always, do not believe and take with salt until November. That much now. Thanks.

[shireenbamfatheon]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

 

And as always, do not believe and take with salt until November. That much now. Thanks.

 

What's happening in November?

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

What's happening in November?

IIRC and according to the source, something like the basic editing being done.

[GrailKing]

10 hours ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

What's happening in November?

At least this much I learnt that before November scene based trailers won't be coming, as preliminary editing deadline is falling in mid-October and it takes scene selection by panel and trailer-making time after that, if that delays further it can but not earlier than that.

I think the editing is taking a bit, the earliest the beginning edits may not complete until November or later.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/965puc/information_on_one_of_the_last_scenes_of_night/

[shireenbamfatheon]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:35 AM, GrailKing said:

At least this much I learnt that before November scene based trailers won't be coming, as preliminary editing deadline is falling in mid-October and it takes scene selection by panel and trailer-making time after that, if that delays further it can but not earlier than that.

I think the editing is taking a bit, the earliest the beginning edits may not complete until November or later.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/965puc/information_on_one_of_the_last_scenes_of_night/

Nice. So likely a chance of some legit leaks. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by shireenbamfatheon

[Eyes High]

After a lot of back and forth, I'm back to the theory that the scenes filmed in Seville during the day were postwar denouement scenes, which means that either Jon and Dany die, or they're out of the picture in a postwar Westeros for whatever reason. (On the plus side, it would also mean that Bran, Arya, Sansa, Davos, Brienne and Sam survive.)

[WearyTraveler]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

which means that either Jon and Dany die, or they're out of the picture in a postwar Westeros for whatever reason.

Or they are flying overhead on Drogon with the future King in tow ;-) 

[Eyes High]

24 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

Or they are flying overhead on Drogon with the future King in tow ;-) 

There's no way D&D would film a huge scene with all these major characters in the Dragonpit and not have Jon and Dany be part of it on the ground--even by landing on Drogon to arrive as Dany did in 7x07--unless they're completely out of the picture for whatever reason.

Jon and Dany not ruling together at the end for whatever reason would probably qualify as a surprising ending in of itself.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Eyes High

[Wouter]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

After a lot of back and forth, I'm back to the theory that the scenes filmed in Seville during the day were postwar denouement scenes, which means that either Jon and Dany die, or they're out of the picture in a postwar Westeros for whatever reason. (On the plus side, it would also mean that Bran, Arya, Sansa, Davos, Brienne and Sam survive.)

Why did you change your mind again? I don't think there has been any new developments recently that would bring new insights to the Seville scenes.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Wouter said:

Why did you change your mind again? I don't think there has been any new developments recently that would bring new insights to the Seville scenes.

It’s nothing new, it’s just revisiting the information already available.

We know that Sophie, Joe and possibly others filmed their last scenes of the show during the day in Seville at the same time as Maisie and Liam, but without Kit.

We also know that the KL exteriors for 8x05 and 8x06 were all filmed after Seville, with Kit, Maisie and Liam filming together more or less continuously to the very end of June, but without Joe and Sophie (who wrapped in Seville).

So Sansa and Gendry sit out the KL craziness (even though you would expect Gendry as an excellent fighter to be in the thick of it with his BFFs Jon and Davos) but somehow pop up at the Dragonpit. Arya and Davos are there, too, but without Jon. Brienne is also at the Dragonpit, too, but without Jaime, even though Gwendoline and NCW were filming together pretty much all the time in 2018. 

The only way the above information makes sense to me is if the Seville day shoots are for a postwar scene.

[onyxrose81]

I don't believe Jon or Dany will actually rule.  I'm still holding out hope that they both survive though.  I'll hold out until the bitter end.  

[Eyes High]

38 minutes ago, onyxrose81 said:

I don't believe Jon or Dany will actually rule.  I'm still holding out hope that they both survive though.  I'll hold out until the bitter end.  

It's hard to imagine a scenario where Jon and Dany both survive but don't end up on the throne, but that's about the only ending that wouldn't be a cliche.

Javi and Frikidoctor initially insisted that Kit did film in Seville but have now backtracked and are saying that he didn't film in Seville.

As a reminder...

Characters whose actors filmed on all filming weekdays in Seville: Sansa, Bran, Arya, Tyrion, Davos, Brienne, Gendry, and Sam.

Characters whose actors were present in Seville and probably filmed something during the day on filming weekdays or at night, in decreasing order of likeliness: Robin and Lord Royce, Jaqen, the Waif, Grey Worm, Edmure, Yara, and Jorah. (The NK's actor was also there but apparently was filming out of makeup.)

Characters whose actors were present in Seville but who didn't film anything during the day on filming weekdays (and who may have filmed at night): Jon, Cersei, Jaime, and Varys.

Characters whose actors were not present in Seville: Dany, Gilly, Missandei, Lyanna Mormont, Lord Glover, Tormund, Podrick, the Mountain, the Hound, Qyburn, Melisandre, Euron, and Theon.

[nikma]

So it seems that Teon dies and Yara survives. I knew one of them would die. I guess Yara makes more sense as the next ruler of the Iron Islands 

[GrailKing]

More:

 

Additional links:

Why not just make a short list of your posts now to make it easier for us to see what information you already have brought us?

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claytoy

My mind is my weapon8 points·9 hours ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/8qa1iz/very_minor_info_from_an_unconfirmed_source

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/8yscdo/some_more_very_minor_info

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/92m70j/some_more_minor_info

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/93lsc4/there_is_a_wonderful_explosive_scene_in_the_air

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/948h5j/some_plot_points_described_from_a_lessacquainted

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/948h5j/some_plot_points_described_from_a_lessacquainted

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/94i48x/small_but_surprising_new_relation_info

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/94rnr5/it_was_a_beautiful_day

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/94y68w/ok_this_is_what_she_explained_about_that

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/95tmf0/underwater_scene_passed_qa

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/965puc/information_on_one_of_the_last_scenes_of_night/

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/97599a/minor_information_regarding_the_end_of_the

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It's hard to imagine a scenario where Jon and Dany both survive but don't end up on the throne, but that's about the only ending that wouldn't be a cliche.

At least a couple of believable ones (including not agenda-driven) were given in this very speculation thread, on multiple occasions IIRC so I won't rehash those I still have in mind. You don't have to like them or approve of them of course, but they aren't hard to come by imo :)

Claytoy's leaks have become a serial, and the more it lasts, the less I'm encline to believe them. HBO is so paranoid this season, they should have pulled a Tyrion vs Small Council and pinpointed the inside source already.

These days, I feel that I'm going to sing "I made it through the wilderness, somehow I made it through" for a good while when we finally get something about the new season, even if it's the new season itself LOL...The perks of that drought: My hype level is reduced to zero, and I kind of made peace with the idea that I might hate the ending.

[WindyNights]

23 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It’s nothing new, it’s just revisiting the information already available.

We know that Sophie, Joe and possibly others filmed their last scenes of the show during the day in Seville at the same time as Maisie and Liam, but without Kit.

We also know that the KL exteriors for 8x05 and 8x06 were all filmed after Seville, with Kit, Maisie and Liam filming together more or less continuously to the very end of June, but without Joe and Sophie (who wrapped in Seville).

So Sansa and Gendry sit out the KL craziness (even though you would expect Gendry as an excellent fighter to be in the thick of it with his BFFs Jon and Davos) but somehow pop up at the Dragonpit. Arya and Davos are there, too, but without Jon. Brienne is also at the Dragonpit, too, but without Jaime, even though Gwendoline and NCW were filming together pretty much all the time in 2018. 

The only way the above information makes sense to me is if the Seville day shoots are for a postwar scene.

This is where I'm at.

[Eyes High]

NCW on S8, from TheWrap:

Quote

 

“I mean, when I read it — I’ve spent so many years working on this and been guessing and trying to figure out how this will end — and when I read it, some of the parts of it I’d get, and other parts of it were just completely shocking and surprising.”

“And it wasn’t, there were none of those horrible — you know shows where it’s a murder mystery and at the very last minute you find out it doesn’t make sense?” he said. “But here all the pieces fit into this massive jigsaw puzzle.”

 

What's the jigsaw puzzle? I wonder whether this relates to what /BoatsexBaby said about the WWs:

Quote

NK/Others are not simply WMDs out of control. Their motivation will be revealed, and it’ll tie together every WW related scene from S1E01 till now. The reveal and resolution are apparently brilliant.

And I posted it in the endgame thread, but it relates to Season 8 as well, from GRRM in a recent interview at Redwood City when asked about the GOT prequels, as related by Azor Ahype on Youtube:

Quote

He said, and these are the words he said, "We're not going to see the stories of Jon Snow, Arya Stark, or Tyrion continue on."

Azor Ahype took this as confirmation that Jon, Arya, and Tyrion survive.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm having a slow day, but what do Jon, Arya and Tyrion's stories have to do with prequels?

[whateverdgaf]

A couple of new NCW interviews. Nothing particularly new. In the first one he talks about the impact Brienne has had on Jaime and states that along with losing his hand, meeting her was the most important part of his character arc. The second one talks about his relationship with Cersei and last season he began to see her the way everyone else does, and that she broke his heart. He also reiterates that he is delighted with the writing for this season, which for a fellow J/B and Jaime fan is always pleasant to hear.  

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-st-game-thrones-nicolaj-coster-waldau-20180814-story.html

And the WIC article to go with it https://winteriscoming.net/2018/08/15/nikolaj-coster-waldau-gazes-into-his-post-game-of-thrones-future/

Second interview https://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-series-finale-nikolaj-coster-waldau-jaime-lannister-season-8/

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm having a slow day, but what do Jon, Arya and Tyrion's stories have to do with prequels?

Nothing, which is why it was an odd comment for GRRM to make, unless he mentally went from prequels to potential GOT successor shows. Senior moment, maybe?

19 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

A couple of new NCW interviews. Nothing particularly new. In the first one he talks about the impact Brienne has had on Jaime and states that along with losing his hand, meeting her was the most important part of his character arc. The second one talks about his relationship with Cersei and last season he began to see her the way everyone else does, and that she broke his heart. He also reiterates that he is delighted with the writing for this season, which for a fellow J/B and Jaime fan is always pleasant to hear.  

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/la-en-st-game-thrones-nicolaj-coster-waldau-20180814-story.html

And the WIC article to go with it https://winteriscoming.net/2018/08/15/nikolaj-coster-waldau-gazes-into-his-post-game-of-thrones-future/

Second interview https://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-series-finale-nikolaj-coster-waldau-jaime-lannister-season-8/

He sounds pretty excited about Season 8, doesn't he?

[whateverdgaf]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

He sounds pretty excited about Season 8, doesn't he?

Especially compared to last season. I do wonder how much this reflects just Jaime's story, and the season overall. 

[WindyNights]

That comment by GRRM is interesting but that could 3 ways. That those 3 die or those 3 survive or it's neither and he just thought of a couple of the main characters.

 

Basically, it can man whatever you want it to for the moment.

[glowbug]

After Sam, Arya would be the character I would be most shocked about dying (permanently) by the end of the series. I also think it's likely Tyrion survives but wouldn't be totally shocked if he didn't. Jon, I'm more worried about. I wouldn't be surprised by his death though I'm not certain that he'll die either. I feel the same about Sansa and Dany. I think Bran will survive in one form or another. Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought I read that GRRM confirmed that the last POV chapter of the series was going to be a Bran chapter so the series would start and end with him. I think that's probable given that he'll be the three eyed raven who can conveniently see the future, which is a nice narrative device for an epilogue. 

[Eyes High]

16 hours ago, glowbug said:

After Sam, Arya would be the character I would be most shocked about dying (permanently) by the end of the series. I also think it's likely Tyrion survives but wouldn't be totally shocked if he didn't. Jon, I'm more worried about.

Going off the filming information we have that points to all the villain deaths being backloaded to the last two episodes, I'd be shocked if we got any big Team Jon/Dany deaths. This is my tentative guess:

Will die: Pod, Tormund, Beric, Melisandre, Varys, Euron, the Mountain, the Hound, Qyburn

Will survive: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Sansa, Brienne, Sam, Davos, Gendry, Robin

Questionable: Theon, Yara, Missandei, Gilly, Jorah, Bronn, Grey Worm, Lyanna Mormont, Lord Glover, Edmure

...I mean, pretty much what you'd expect. I think Dany is safe because I think Architectural Digest is right about Dany's last scene of the show being filmed in Dubrovnik, which would rule out a death scene (since major character death scenes are never filmed out in the open in bustling city centres, for obvious reasons). I think Jon is safe because he's one of the original five, although I've gone back and forth on this. I don't know why they weren't involved in the 8x06 scene(s) shot during the day at Italica, but they could be on dragons, they could have left Westeros or they could be involved in a still-raging battle.

Quote

Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought I read that GRRM confirmed that the last POV chapter of the series was going to be a Bran chapter so the series would start and end with him

GRRM has never said that, but it's a very popular fan theory for the reason you mention: it would mean that the series would be starting and ending with Bran.

Quote

I think that's probable given that he'll be the three eyed raven who can conveniently see the future, which is a nice narrative device for an epilogue.

There may be a timeskip from the end of the final battle to a few months later when everything has been rebuilt and Jon and Dany's baby has been born and whatnot, but I don't think there will be any kind of flashforwards beyond that. We're not going to get the equivalent of a Harry Potter epilogue where all the Starklings are middle-aged and seeing off their kids to whatever the Westerosi equivalent of Hogwarts would be.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

There isn't going to be any flash-forward in the show. There doesn't seem to be any casting for it. 

 

I'm still 100 % certain that Dany dies since MMD's prophecy states that she and Drogo will meet again once she has a living child

[Eyes High]

19 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

There isn't going to be any flash-forward in the show. There doesn't seem to be any casting for it. 

There's a lot of casting that we never find out about until the show airs.

Quote

 

I'm still 100 % certain that Dany dies since MMD's prophecy states that she and Drogo will meet again once she has a living child

 

The writers strongly implied with Jon and Beric that there's no afterlife, so Dany can't meet Drogo again.

[Sunshinegal]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

There's a lot of casting that we never find out about until the show airs.

That's interesting.  I wonder if they will have Edric Dayne.  I doubt he will ever appear on the show but I liked him in the books.  Someone has to rule Dorne.  I just want one sentence that says who rules Dorne and will be pleasantly surprised if it was Edric.

[WindyNights]

4 hours ago, Eyes High said:

 

The writers strongly implied with Jon and Beric that there's no afterlife, so Dany can't meet Drogo again.

That's more a case that they didn't think about it like how Cersei talks about Myrcella's necklace is a copy of hers and there are only two in the world but season 1 Joffrey gave Sansa that exact same necklace.

 

It's never implied in the books that there is no afterlife for instance.

[glowbug]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

GRRM has never said that, but it's a very popular fan theory for the reason you mention: it would mean that the series would be starting and ending with Bran.

There may be a timeskip from the end of the final battle to a few months later when everything has been rebuilt and Jon and Dany's baby has been born and whatnot, but I don't think there will be any kind of flashforwards beyond that. We're not going to get the equivalent of a Harry Potter epilogue where all the Starklings are middle-aged and seeing off their kids to whatever the Westerosi equivalent of Hogwarts would be.

Thanks for clarifying about Bran being the last chapter. I couldn't remember where I'd heard it and if it was speculation of something GRRM said. 

I should have clarified that I was specifically referencing the books when I said Bran being able to see the future would be a good narrative device for an epilogue. I don't think the show is going to go too far into the future and using Bran isn't a great device for the show because it would require a lot of narration.

[MrsR]

6 hours ago, WindyNights said:

I'm still 100 % certain that Dany dies since MMD's prophecy states that she and Drogo will meet again once she has a living child

Never once and after seeing the word prophecy applied to MMD's words countless times have I ever believed that her statement was actually a prophecy. I have never swayed from believing that MMD was telling Dany that she will NEVER see Drogo again. As in "When pigs fly" "Twelfth of never" or even "And monkeys might fly out my butt." (Thank you Wayne for that one).

 

It's called a Song of Ice and Fire.  Dany and Jon's child was always the end game and Drogo was simply a character who served as a plot device in our journey along the way.

[shireenbamfatheon]

Bran is dead anyway now that he's become the three-eyed-raven, so in a sense, a physical death would be less tragic and more cathartic to me.

All this time I thought Jon was the song of ice and fire. I dunno, maybe Jon and Dany can have a daughter, and then they can reveal there's a secret Targaryen male out there she can hook up with as an adult and their kid can be the song of ice and fire. The potential for sequels is limitless.

[Eyes High]

18 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

That's interesting.  I wonder if they will have Edric Dayne.  I doubt he will ever appear on the show but I liked him in the books.  Someone has to rule Dorne.  I just want one sentence that says who rules Dorne and will be pleasantly surprised if it was Edric.

We may get...something, if there’s an ending scene with a meeting of all the remaining high lords and ladies. There was that line from the S7 outline about Dorne being embroiled in a civil war over succession after the deaths of the Sand Snakes and Ellaria.

16 hours ago, WindyNights said:

That's more a case that they didn't think about it like how Cersei talks about Myrcella's necklace is a copy of hers and there are only two in the world but season 1 Joffrey gave Sansa that exact same necklace.

 

It's never implied in the books that there is no afterlife for instance.

I don’t think so, since the lack of afterlife was brought up not once but twice (by Beric, and then a few seasons later by Jon).

15 hours ago, glowbug said:

Thanks for clarifying about Bran being the last chapter. I couldn't remember where I'd heard it and if it was speculation of something GRRM said. 

I should have clarified that I was specifically referencing the books when I said Bran being able to see the future would be a good narrative device for an epilogue. I don't think the show is going to go too far into the future and using Bran isn't a great device for the show because it would require a lot of narration.

I agree that Bran’s powers would lend themselves well to an epilogue. And who knows, we may get an ending with a big time skip, since LOTR which so influenced GRRM had one.

15 hours ago, MrsR said:

Never once and after seeing the word prophecy applied to MMD's words countless times have I ever believed that her statement was actually a prophecy. I have never swayed from believing that MMD was telling Dany that she will NEVER see Drogo again. As in "When pigs fly" "Twelfth of never" or even "And monkeys might fly out my butt." (Thank you Wayne for that one).

 

It's called a Song of Ice and Fire.  Dany and Jon's child was always the end game and Drogo was simply a character who served as a plot device in our journey along the way.

Yeah, I always interpreted MMD’s response as “Fuck you, that’s when.”

[SeanC]

On 8/17/2018 at 11:15 AM, Eyes High said:

GRRM has never said that, but it's a very popular fan theory for the reason you mention: it would mean that the series would be starting and ending with Bran.

I've been surprised to see that there's a portion of the show-only fandom that seems certain Bran must die at the end, I guess as part of a larger interpretation of this story that it's going to end with the death of magic, just because his survival is one of the things that I've always felt the most certain about.

[screamin]

On 8/16/2018 at 5:54 PM, glowbug said:

I think Bran will survive in one form or another. Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought I read that GRRM confirmed that the last POV chapter of the series was going to be a Bran chapter so the series would start and end with him.

Bran could die and still be the last POV chapter, I think. I have a vague recollection of Bloodraven saying that those who have died while associated with the weirwood network live on in some form within it. Bran's POV inside the weirwoods would be ideal for giving a last epilogue-ish view of the fate of his surviving siblings and other protagonists.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

I've been surprised to see that there's a portion of the show-only fandom that seems certain Bran must die at the end, I guess as part of a larger interpretation of this story that it's going to end with the death of magic, just because his survival is one of the things that I've always felt the most certain about.

I'm one of those book readers that go with Leaf's words about no room for magic in the world of men.

So to me, I think if another Stark dies ( book wise ) it be Bran, but he Wargs into the Weirwood of Winterfell and he's the epilogue voice.

Second choice Sam.

Third choice Sansa or Arya reading ASOIAF to ( hopefully their ) children. Yes you can call me sappy. : )

[shireenbamfatheon]

22 hours ago, GrailKing said:

I'm one of those book readers that go with Leaf's words about no room for magic in the world of men.

So to me, I think if another Stark dies ( book wise ) it be Bran, but he Wargs into the Weirwood of Winterfell and he's the epilogue voice.

Second choice Sam.

Third choice Sansa or Arya reading ASOIAF to ( hopefully their ) children. Yes you can call me sappy. : )

3

Arya's pretty magical too as this point, though. If magic dies out, does it mean she loses her FM powers or that she dies with them? 
 

[GrailKing]

37 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

Arya's pretty magical too as this point, though. If magic dies out, does it mean she loses her FM powers or that she dies with them? 
 

Yeah, I'm aware , and keep thinking of that. Sometimes I think what the FM do is more science and trickery, it's the faces that can push her to the magic side.

If she dies though; I think it's because she's a fighter and or she did kills that weren't hers to take.

Sansa may die either because of a wrong decision or just her lack of defensive / fighting skills.

I still think The Starks survive, they just die out over time; just like historical Direwolves did.

[Meredith Quill]

On 8/19/2018 at 4:21 PM, GrailKing said:

Yeah, I'm aware , and keep thinking of that. Sometimes I think what the FM do is more science and trickery, it's the faces that can push her to the magic side.

There is without doubt some sort of glamour spell involved in the FM's ability; as they not only have the face but also the voice, the hands (body?) and the height of the person they masquerade as. This was most evident when Arya unmasked as Walder Frey: suddenly his clothes were much too big for her. Not to mention it's only the actual face they take but she had his head shape, hair (or lack of) and wrinkly neck etc. So if magic dies forever, it seems the FM will need to change their name, heh.

[Eyes High]

On 8/18/2018 at 12:28 PM, GrailKing said:

I'm one of those book readers that go with Leaf's words about no room for magic in the world of men.

So to me, I think if another Stark dies ( book wise ) it be Bran, but he Wargs into the Weirwood of Winterfell and he's the epilogue voice.

Second choice Sam.

Third choice Sansa or Arya reading ASOIAF to ( hopefully their ) children. Yes you can call me sappy. : )

As @shireenbamfatheon pointed out, Arya is a magic user as well. In fact, going off the book canon, all the Stark kids are wargs and therefore magical, including not only Arya (who wargs in the books) but also Sansa. Then of course you have magically fireproof (in the show) dragonrider Dany and magically resurrected warg Jon. If "all magic dies" at the end, then the Stark siblings, Jon and Dany all have to die as well, and I really doubt that will happen. 

[WindyNights]

Magic's not gonna die out at the end of the story. It'll eventually die out but not within our timeline.

[Moxie Cat]

On August 17, 2018 at 11:06 AM, WindyNights said:

 

I'm still 100 % certain that Dany dies since MMD's prophecy states that she and Drogo will meet again once she has a living child

She's not a reliable source of information, as someone once noted. Lol. The more I watch that scene from S1, the more I'm convinced the actress was told to play it like she's just making impossible crap up and being sarcastic in order to be a bitch to Dany. Now who knows, maybe GRRM meant that part of fans book to be Serious Prophecy but S1 hewed pretty close to source material so I'm kind of doubtful.

[glowbug]

I thought the prevailing belief was that MMD didn’t know that the conditions of her prophecy/curse would come to pass when she said it so she meant it as a fuck you to Dany. The conditions were meant to be impossible to fulfill and they were in a literal sense but can be fulfilled figuratively. In the books, Quentyn Martell is the sun that rises in the west and sets in the east, the Dothraki sea (grass) is going dry, the pyramids (mountains) are blowing away in the wind, and Dany’s womb has apparently quickened (come to life). All that’s left is for her to bear a living child. But just as the conditions of the prophecy are being met in unintended ways, Drogo returning is also undoubtedly figurative. I don’t think anyone thinks he’s coming back from the dead (literally returning alive). It’s possible he returns to her figuratively because she dies and joins him in death, or he may return in some other figurative way like she names her son after him (doubtful since she already named a dragon after him and I can’t see her naming her son with Jon after her deceased first/only husband). This assumes the prophecy is truly coming to pass in the books, which isn’t certain though I think it’s likely.

The prophecy is different in the show and there is no sign that it’s coming to pass. In the books MMD says once the conditions are met Drogo will return whereas in the show Dany asks when Drogo will be as he was (which are two very different things) and MMD responds “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and the mountains blow in the wind, like leaves”. MMD doesn’t mention anything about Dany’s womb or bearing a living child, which is why it makes no sense that Dany believes that MMD told her she couldn’t have children, or that the prophecy conditions must be met (e.g. sun rising in the west and setting in the east) for her to have a child as she told the Khal two seasons ago. The writers seem to have forgotten that MMD never made any reference to Dany’s fertility in the prophecy or at any other time as far as I can remember. MMD in the show appears to just be wrong since she predicted something that I very much doubt will happen (Drogo becomes as he was) and none of the conditions have been met literally or figuratively. However, since Dany’s ending in the show will supposedly be the same as her book ending the book prophecy is still relevant assuming it has an impact on the conclusion of her character. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by glowbug

[Eyes High]

Production designer Deborah Riley on Season 8:

Quote

Those eagerly anticipating the return of Game of Thrones after 12 months off the air can rest easy, in expectation of a spectacular eighth and final season, knowing that the series’ creatives are working harder than ever before. “The final season nearly killed me. I realized at a certain point that all of the work in previous seasons was just a warm-up for Season 8,” Riley reflects. “By the end, I had nothing left to give and finished knowing I had done everything I could. Season 8 does not pull any punches and is raw and honest and important. I can’t wait to see it.”

"Important"...?

"Raw and honest" in reviews usually denotes lots of angst, but "important" is the sort of adjective that gets applied to stories with obvious political or awareness-raising messages like The Handmaid's Tale or Spotlight.

It sounds as if the last season is going to have some good emotional content, as opposed to being mostly big battle sequences, so that's something. I dunno about “raw and honest and important,” though; sounds like how you’d describe a memoir of a painkiller addict, or something. Odd choice of words.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

On 8/20/2018 at 7:09 PM, Moxie Cat said:

She's not a reliable source of information, as someone once noted. Lol. The more I watch that scene from S1, the more I'm convinced the actress was told to play it like she's just making impossible crap up and being sarcastic in order to be a bitch to Dany. Now who knows, maybe GRRM meant that part of fans book to be Serious Prophecy but S1 hewed pretty close to source material so I'm kind of doubtful.

In the show, MMD says nothing about Daenerys and childbirth but the show retcons that in season 2 when Daenerys starts talking about how she can't have children and in season 7, she tells Jon that MMD told her she can't.

So take how that's acted with a grain of salt. I mean Stephen Dillane has gone on record saying that the writers wouldn't tell him anything about Stannis and Stannis is a far more important character than MMD.

[Happy Harpy]

On 8/21/2018 at 5:48 PM, Eyes High said:

Production designer Deborah Riley on Season 8:

"Important"...?

Honestly, it sounds like the new "unpredictable".

Nevertheless.

Daenerys is the flagship of female empowerment on GoT, from brood mare to breaker of chains. Women all over the world struggle to get, like Dany, that "power of not being at someone else's mercy" we call "freedom". Unless GoT is ultimately an incel's wet dream *ghhh*  and unless the production designer is 100% tone deaf, I can't imagine Dany not having a "positive" ending of some sort if S8 is "important" in a social or political sense.

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Honestly, it sounds like the new "unpredictable".

Nevertheless.

Daenerys is the flagship of female empowerment on GoT, from brood mare to breaker of chains. Women all over the world struggle to get, like Dany, that "power of not being at someone else's mercy" we call "freedom". Unless GoT is ultimately an incel's wet dream *ghhh*  and unless the production designer is 100% tone deaf, I can't imagine Dany not having a "positive" ending of some sort if S8 is "important" in a social or political sense.

Fair enough, but if the relevant criterion is social or political “importance,” one could equally say that about rape survivor Sansa or one of the two disabled members of the OG5 (Tyrion and Bran) ending up on the throne. With that said, I’m hopeful this means that Dany doesn’t die so that Jon can walk away with her baby, her dragons and her armies. I’m struggling with what could possibly be so “honest” and “important” about a season that we can expect will deal mostly with big battles and ice zombie attacks, but that’s just me.

Deb Riley also says in the same interview that S8 pulls no punches, for whatever that’s worth.

On another note, I am now certain that Tyrion and Sansa will not only survive the show but will definitely end up together. I have officially been converted.

[WindyNights]

10 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Fair enough, but if the relevant criterion is social or political “importance,” one could equally say that about rape survivor Sansa or one of the two disabled members of the OG5 (Tyrion and Bran) ending up on the throne. With that said, I’m hopeful this means that Dany doesn’t die so that Jon can walk away with her baby, her dragons and her armies. I’m struggling with what could possibly be so “honest” and “important” about a season that we can expect will deal mostly with big battles and ice zombie attacks, but that’s just me.

Deb Riley also says in the same interview that S8 pulls no punches, for whatever that’s worth.

On another note, I am now certain that Tyrion and Sansa will not only survive the show but will definitely end up together. I have officially been converted.

I really doubt that the endgame Lord of Winterfell is Tyrion Lannister. Just think about that for a minute.

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

I really doubt that the endgame Lord of Winterfell is Tyrion Lannister. Just think about that for a minute.

Regardless of where Tyrion and Sansa end up, and I’m not convinced it will be at Winterfell, I’m confident they’re going to be married. It all adds up.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

30 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Regardless of where Tyrion and Sansa end up, and I’m not convinced it will be at Winterfell, I’m confident they’re going to be married. It all adds up.

 

Everyone thinks their theory adds up but....just because it adds doesn't mean it would go there. 

 

It's definitely Winterfell for Sansa. She's not going to give up being ruling Lady of Winterfell to be Tyrion's subordinate and Lady of Casterly Rock. What a downgrade with no upsides for Sansa in the trade off.  

 

And it's not like Arya is going to become ruling Lady of Winterfell and Bran doesn't want it so that leaves Sansa.  Just compare all 3 of their training arcs. Sansa learns politics from Littlefinger, Arya learns to become an assassin from the Faceless Men and Bran learns magic from Bloodraven. That's pretty much all you need to know about where their paths are leading them

 

Plus Weiss and Cogman already tipped their hand a little too much when they explained what Nymeria leaving Arya meant and that it was foreshadowing for Arya.

 

---------

Weiss:

 

In "Stormborn," Arya, heading to Winterfell to reunite with her siblings, encounters Nymeria, now the leader of a pack of wolves, in the Riverlands. Arya asks her wolf to rejoin her and head north, but Nymeria turns and leads her pack away. Understanding, Arya says, "That’s not you."

"‘That’s not you’ is a direct reference to what Arya herself said to her father when her father painted this picture for her of the life that she could have as the lady of a castle and marrying some lord and wearing a nice frilly dress," showrunner D.B. Weiss said of the scene.

When presented with this picturesque future by Ned in Season 1, Arya responded, "That’s not me."

"Arya’s not domesticated and it makes total sense that her wolf wouldn’t be either. And once the wolf walks away, at first she’s heartbroken to have come this close," said Weiss. "Then she realizes that the wolf is doing exactly what she would do if she were that wolf."

------

Cogman:

 

“So much of this season is swinging back to season 1. Since we last had Arya in the Riverlands she’s had all these crazy adventures. In a television show that’s all about Nymeria the Wolf, she’s had adventures too. She’s gathered this pack of wolves and is now doing the Old Gods’ work herself. Arya and Nymeria do and don’t have the connection they’ve always had. In the end, they’re both lone wolves. They can’t go back to the way things were. And that might be foreshadowing for Arya too.”

Edited August 23, 2018 by WindyNights