Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[WindyNights]

5 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

I don't believe GRRM is intent on wiping out Tywin's line specifically, this actually goes against a very common theme throughout the show of not being punished for the father's sins.

I think we will see a fair bit of Jaime and Brienne together next season. Their actors have been seen together a fair few times during filming. With so much of their story to conclude, I wouldn't be surprised if nearly the majority of their scenes will be together. After all, Jaime needs a scene partner with Bronn gone, he is at odds with Tyrion and Jaime will be isolated up North, surrounded by enemies. It will only be natural he will cleave to Brienne. 

Then why didn't Myrcella or Tommen survive?

 

Anyways, that's the show not the books. In the books, there's a big theme about killing the sons too so they don't come back for vengeance. 

 

Jaime I ADWD:

"Someone did, my lord. Many someones. We've had a hundred peaces with the Brackens, many sealed with marriages. There's Blackwood blood in every Bracken, and Bracken blood in every Blackwood. The Old King's Peace lasted half a century. But then some fresh quarrel broke out, and the old wounds opened and began to bleed again. That's how it always happens, my father says. So long as men remember the wrongs done to their forebears, no peace will ever last. So we go on century after century, with us hating the Brackens and them hating us. My father says there will never be an end to it."

"There could be."

"How, my lord? The old wounds never heal, my father says."

"My father had a saying too. Never wound a foe when you can kill him. Dead men don't claim vengeance."

"Their sons do," said Hoster, apologetically.

"Not if you kill the sons as well. Ask the Casterlys about that if you doubt me. Ask Lord and Lady Tarbeck, or the Reynes of Castamere. Ask the Prince of Dragonstone." For an instant, the deep red clouds that crowned the western hills reminded him of Rhaegar's children, all wrapped up in crimson cloaks.

[GraceK]

I can’t wait to Jaimes face next season when he finds out Arya killed all the Frey’s 😂

[anamika]

14 hours ago, Stella said:

Sansa like many abused children rewrites memories, suppresses memories etc. as a means of coping with the abuse. It is disgusting that people want to romanticize this child abuse.

Liking something or speculating on something is not actually endorsing that a young child get together with perverts. If people find these things disgusting in fictional works then why even read ASoIaF or watch GOT?  This is like the fans over at Westeros.org who were pissed off at Sansa's rape because D&D are woman haters but had no issue at all with Jeyne Poole getting raped by dogs in the books.  Or folks who think it is disgusting for people to enjoy Jon/Dany because it is incest. If these things make people uncomfortable, then it's better to stop consuming fiction that has plenty of such 'disgusting' aspects to it.  Do I romanticize or like SanSan? No. But I understand why people like Sandor and Jaime and are fans of these ships.

I don't judge SanSan shippers but I will point out the hypocrisy of the biggest SanSan shippers over at westeros.org who are also the biggest critics of D&D as sexist women haters because they wrote the Sansa rape plot. I mean, hello!! You guys ship Sansa with an abusive, child killing, drunken asshole who lusted after a 11 year old!

I certainly think Brienne deserves better than Jaime and Sansa deserves better than the Hound. But that is who GRRM has written for Sansa to fall in love with. It could be that like there was Drogo for Dany, Ygritte for Jon, Shae/Tysha for Tyrion, Gendry for Arya etc. , Sandor is also Sansa's first love who gets things moving for her and then dies/disappears. The issue is that Sansa's story is moving so slowly in the books, that she is still thinking of Sandor in book 5. That's why SanSan still gets debated.

We can only speculate about her ending up with these problematic characters that GRRM has paired her off with.  This is where Jonsa comes in. Ok, I lied. If there is one group of shippers I do judge, it's people who insist that Jonsa is canon or going to become canon. Jonsa has come about because shippers think it is disgusting to ship Sansa with the Hound/Tyrion/SR etc. And so they pair her off with good guy Jon. Who is now LF 2.0 deceiving Dany for her dragons. But that's ok, because he is only being horrible to Dany. And not Sansa.

For Sansa to get the happy ending that her fans want for her, I think the show will have to introduce a new northern lord next season. From casting news, there are several new characters in the North. One of them can be a lord, played by a handsome, young actor who will support Sansa and think that she is super smart, fight bravely against the wights/GC/Lannisters, be gentle and nice to Sansa, help her get WF refugees to the south etc. She ends up Lady of WF and the lord and Sansa share glances indicating that they will be a thing in the future.

If this is not happening, the next best option is her ending up alone as Lady of WF and we can speculate that she will either marry for politics or for love down the line. The show has really emphasized that Sansa wants to be in charge and make the decisions.

This Bran/Sansa/Arya triumvirate ending makes no sense to me. For one, who is ruling the North in this scenario? The Starks are the North. That's their place. It's like Cregan Stark going back to the North after the hour of the wolf. I can see Bran as God Emperor but that would just be GRRM retelling Frank Herbert's Children of Dune and I don't think that's where he is heading. And even if Bran is going to be king, why are Sansa and Arya always tacked on with him? Is GRRM is rewriting Aegon and his sisters with the Starks? Why would any of the southerners accept them as rulers.  Is A Song of Ice and Fire about the Starks finally conquering Westeros?

I can see independent kingdoms with an independent head - like Davos - or a representative from a kingdom on a rotating basis in charge of a great council that deals with matter of trade and other stuff - like the EU parliament. But if there is still going to be an Iron Throne at the end with someone ruling over the 7K, I can only see a Stark there as a regent for Jon/Dany's baby if they die.

10 hours ago, Wouter said:

The five year gap does not imply it can’t be annulled afterwards. If Jon and Dany reign at the very end, they can easily arrange an annulment if this would be needed. 

Annulment can also happen much earlier if fAegon takes KL and Sansa/LF approach him for an alliance....

12 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I do agree with @Colorful Mess that as much as he eggs them on with his comments and his ship teasing, GRRM seems somewhat contemptuous of the female fans who go gaga for his fictional bad boys as romance material.

GRRM seems sad that no one writes romantic/erotic fanfiction for Samwell Tarly....Fat pink mast is all we will get for Sam.

Edited December 13, 2018 by anamika

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Liking something or speculating on something is not actually endorsing that a young child get together with perverts. If people find these things disgusting in fictional works then why even read ASoIaF or watch GOT?  This is like the fans over at Westeros.org who were pissed off at Sansa's rape because D&D are woman haters but had no issue at all with Jeyne Poole getting raped by dogs in the books.  Or folks who think it is disgusting for people to enjoy Jon/Dany because it is incest. If these things make people uncomfortable, then it's better to stop consuming fiction that has plenty of such 'disgusting' aspects to it.  Do I romanticize or like SanSan? No. But I understand why people like Sandor and Jaime and are fans of these ships.

I don't judge SanSan shippers but I will point out the hypocrisy of the biggest SanSan shippers over at westeros.org who are also the biggest critics of D&D as sexist women haters because they wrote the Sansa rape plot. I mean, hello!! You guys ship Sansa with an abusive, child killing, drunken asshole who lusted after a 11 year old!

I certainly think Brienne deserves better than Jaime and Sansa deserves better than the Hound. But that is who GRRM has written for Sansa to fall in love with. It could be that like there was Drogo for Dany, Ygritte for Jon, Shae/Tysha for Tyrion, Gendry for Arya etc. , Sandor is also Sansa's first love who gets things moving for her and then dies/disappears. The issue is that Sansa's story is moving so slowly in the books, that she is still thinking of Sandor in book 5. That's why SanSan still gets debated.

We can only speculate about her ending up with these problematic characters that GRRM has paired her off with.  This is where Jonsa comes in. Ok, I lied. If there is one group of shippers I do judge, it's people who insist that Jonsa is canon or going to become canon. Jonsa has come about because shippers think it is disgusting to ship Sansa with the Hound/Tyrion/SR etc. And so they pair her off with good guy Jon. Who is now LF 2.0 deceiving Dany for her dragons. But that's ok, because he is only being horrible to Dany. And not Sansa.

For Sansa to get the happy ending that her fans want for her, I think the show will have to introduce a new northern lord next season. From casting news, there are several new characters in the North. One of them can be a lord, played by a handsome, young actor who will support Sansa and think that she is super smart, fight bravely against the wights/GC/Lannisters, be gentle and nice to Sansa, help her get WF refugees to the south etc. She ends up Lady of WF and the lord and Sansa share glances indicating that they will be a thing in the future.

If this is not happening, the next best option is her ending up alone as Lady of WF and we can speculate that she will either marry for politics or for love down the line. The show has really emphasized that Sansa wants to be in charge and make the decisions.

This Bran/Sansa/Arya triumvirate ending makes no sense to me. For one, who is ruling the North in this scenario? The Starks are the North. That's their place. It's like Cregan Stark going back to the North after the hour of the wolf. I can see Bran as God Emperor but that would just be GRRM retelling Frank Herbert's Children of Dune and I don't think that's where he is heading. And even if Bran is going to be king, why are Sansa and Arya always tacked on with him? Is GRRM is rewriting Aegon and his sisters with the Starks? Why would any of the southerners accept them as rulers.  Is A Song of Ice and Fire about the Starks finally conquering Westeros?

I can see independent kingdoms with an independent head - like Davos - or a representative from a kingdom on a rotating basis in charge of a great council that deals with matter of trade and other stuff - like the EU parliament. But if there is still going to be an Iron Throne at the end with someone ruling over the 7K, I can only see a Stark there as a regent for Jon/Dany's baby if they die.

A Time for Wolves.

But yes. Bran, Arya and Sansa would be a Stark version of Aegon and his two sisters. Sansa and Arya are even representatives of soft and hard power like Rhaenys and Visenya are. 

In the new videos, Sophie even refers to Bran, Sansa and Arya as "the perfect unit" and "a threesome". They're a team. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives.

They have different strengths and weaknesses that the other can cover.

Sansa-politics, Arya-neutralizing threats and Bran-identifying threats.

It's how they took down Littlefinger. That's meant to be representative of how together they can even take down a genius like Petyr.

[OhOkayWhat]

43 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

how together they can even take down a genius like Petyr.

Well, Petyr wasn't a genius. Never was.

[whateverdgaf]

15 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Well, Petyr wasn't a genius. Never was.

I think Petyr was a genius, but after having so many successes he grew too confident and sure of his own abilities, which caused him to be less cautious and make more mistakes. 

This talk of the three of them being a perfect unit makes me wonder what they are going to be like next season when Dany arrives. We know Sansa will be unhappy, but it's assumed Arya will accept Dany quickly (because of Dany being a warrior queen, Arya trusting Jon etc..) If Sansa is having trouble with Jon's decision here, you would think that this would cause division between the Stark girls. So maybe Arya is also unsure of Dany's presence. That said, with Jon now around to defend his decisions and Arya now having more respect for Sansa, perhaps the two will handle disagreements between them in a more reasonable manner and even when they are in disagreement, they are able to work through it. That could be a good way of showing their growth from last season. 

[OhOkayWhat]

37 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

I think Petyr was a genius, but after having so many successes he grew too confident and sure of his own abilities, which caused him to be less cautious and make more mistakes. 

This talk of the three of them being a perfect unit makes me wonder what they are going to be like next season when Dany arrives. We know Sansa will be unhappy, but it's assumed Arya will accept Dany quickly (because of Dany being a warrior queen, Arya trusting Jon etc..) If Sansa is having trouble with Jon's decision here, you would think that this would cause division between the Stark girls. So maybe Arya is also unsure of Dany's presence. That said, with Jon now around to defend his decisions and Arya now having more respect for Sansa, perhaps the two will handle disagreements between them in a more reasonable manner and even when they are in disagreement, they are able to work through it. That could be a good way of showing their growth from last season. 

About Petyr, I agree to disagree. In my opinion, Petyr was a gambler and a liar with a horrible lack of scruples.

About Arya and Dany, I think Arya trust a very small number of people. Dany will be a new person in Arya's life, therefore she is not part of that small number.

Edited December 13, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[anamika]

We don't know how Arya feels about the knee bending because the show did not bother to get Arya's views on it. The only thing we know from last season is that Arya was ready to chop off some heads because the Lords were disloyal to Jon. Bran was like, yeah whatever, upon receiving Jon's note.

The EW article made it seem like it's Sansa specifically and not Starks who will be confronting Jon on the politics of knee bending. I get the feeling that Arya and Bran will be kept out of it. Or, maybe the show starts having Arya and Bran playing bigger roles in the politics of it all - would make sense if these guys are going to be endgame rulers and all that. So this

Quote

The actors were forbidden in the interview to talk about the series' eighth season, but Maisie also gave clues to Arya's future. "Back to Winterfell was amazing, it was her focus throughout the show," she says. "In this new season she has completely different goals, which she has never had before," she says.

could mean Arya also getting involved in Northern politics. So far her goals have been killing her enemies including Cersei. What are her completely different goals next season that she has never had before? Maisie has also mentioned that we will be seeing the fun season one Arya. It's almost like Arya will be a different character next season.

2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

But yes. Bran, Arya and Sansa would be a Stark version of Aegon and his two sisters. Sansa and Arya are even representatives of soft and hard power like Rhaenys and Visenya are. 

In the new videos, Sophie even refers to Bran, Sansa and Arya as "the perfect unit" and "a threesome". They're a team. The lone wolf dies but the pack survives.

Well, Isaac makes no mention of Bran/Arya/Sansa being a perfect unit and all that - would that not be important for Bran if he was going to be King and teaming up with his sisters? He does emphasize the importance of the Valyrian steel dagger Bran gives to Arya. And gives credit to CCTV Bran for Sansa figuring out LF before executing Arya. And spends a lot of time talking about being the 3ER and Jon's parentage.

After listening to these character/house recaps, I don't think there are any clues in there for what we will see next season. It's the actors talking about their character journeys from their perspective with a fair amount of bias. For example, characters Lena talked about in her recap - All the Lannisters, Margaery, high sparrow, Euron, Dany and Brienne. Nothing at all about the Starks. Is this then a hint that the Starks will play no role at all in Cersei's story next season? 

[GrailKing]

7 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Well, Petyr wasn't a genius. Never was.

Some what true.

But to get over so many for so long puts him above many.

He got careless and had some caring for a auburn haired Stark girl, who recognized it and learned to use it.

[Eyes High]

14 hours ago, anamika said:

We can only speculate about her ending up with these problematic characters that GRRM has paired her off with.  This is where Jonsa comes in. Ok, I lied. If there is one group of shippers I do judge, it's people who insist that Jonsa is canon or going to become canon. 

I for one am totally cool with judging Jonsa shippers who insist that it will be canon. 

Shouldn't the premiere date have been announced by now? It seems...late.

[nikma]

For S6 it was in January, for S7 in March. 

 

 

 

 

Friki today:

Quote

I don’t have anything new to share. If I gather more info I will release it in my channel. Of course, people are absolutely free to believe what they want, and I’m not going to try to convince anyone. All I can say is that nowadays I’m really confident about every spoiler I have shared.

Edited December 13, 2018 by nikma

[bubble sparkly]

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I for one am totally cool with judging Jonsa shippers who insist that it will be canon. 

 

But..but...Sansa gave Jon a cloak, they’re totally getting married! And Jon was really undercover!Jon at Dragonstone, and only slept with and likely impregnated Dany as a show of devotion for his one true love, Sansa! They are Ned and Cat 2.0 and something about pomegranates. Plus Jon is going to trick Dany into drinking moon tea next season and force an abortion on her. Lol, I could barely type all that with a straight face.

[Minneapple]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I for one am totally cool with judging Jonsa shippers who insist that it will be canon. 

There are shippers who think Jonsa is going to be canon? But that's insane. There's only six episodes left and Jon just had sex with Dany who is possibly pregnant with his child. Plus there's a giant battle coming up. Where will Jon have time to hook up with Sansa? I guess it's not so different from shippers who think SanSan is still happening, though. Or every shipper who still holds out hope no matter the circumstance.

There was a time when I thought Jonsa might be canon. Kit and Sophie have great onscreen chemistry and that might have had something to do with it. But now it's clear that's not happening, so...if you like it, read some fanfic? I've read like a billion fics for ships of mine that never actually happened. And TBH, sometimes it's better when a pairing doesn't become canon because TV writers inevitably find a way to fuck it up. Hello, Blair/Dan. I still can't believe I watched the dreck that was Gossip Girl just for Blair/Dan. 

[WindyNights]

13 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Well, Petyr wasn't a genius. Never was.

Petyr is definitely a genius. He was outgambitting everyone. 

 

GRRM even explicitly stated that LF was smarter than Varys who is extremely intelligent too.

[Eyes High]

42 minutes ago, nikma said:

Friki today:

 

I've given up trying to figure out what's going on with that. We'll know soon enough, anyway.

39 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

But..but...Sansa gave Jon a cloak, they’re totally getting married! And Jon was really undercover!Jon at Dragonstone, and only slept with and likely impregnated Dany as a show of devotion for his one true love, Sansa! They are Ned and Cat 2.0 and something about pomegranates. Plus Jon is going to trick Dany into drinking moon tea next season and force an abortion on her. Lol, I could barely type all that with a straight face.

Hee.

37 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

And TBH, sometimes it's better when a pairing doesn't become canon because TV writers inevitably find a way to fuck it up. Hello, Blair/Dan. I still can't believe I watched the dreck that was Gossip Girl just for Blair/Dan. 

I think they deliberately tanked Blair/Dan because Chuck/Blair was more popular, but yes, your point stands.

Personally, I find that when I ship a pairing, I lose interest the moment they actually get together. Ideally, they get together in the last five minutes of the show and then I don't have to bother with the actual relationship. That's just me, though, heh.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Eyes High

[Lady Iris]

16 hours ago, anamika said:

Jeyne Poole getting raped by dogs in the books. 

*blink blink* That really happened? I have been holding off on reading the books til they're complete, now I just may decide to never read them.

[Wouter]

16 hours ago, anamika said:

Annulment can also happen much earlier if fAegon takes KL and Sansa/LF approach him for an alliance....

Agreed, and theoretically the Tyrells could also do it should they be able to get rid of Cersei and take complete control over KL and the Faith.

However, since (f)Aegon is a Varys/Illyrio project, since (f)Aegon seems destined for Arianna Martell or Elia Sand in the books and since he isn't in the show at all, I guess it's very unlikely (in the books) that LF would seek alliance with Aegon (and by extension, Varys). He may go for Dany instead, assuming Sansa and Arya haven't gotten rid of him by then. 

But annulment by Jon/Dany is still on the table, if they indeed survive as final monarchs (or even one of them). 

Still undecided on Friki's leaks, we'll see.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

I for one am totally cool with judging Jonsa shippers who insist that it will be canon.

Since I never shipped them, you got my blessing. LOL

Don't ship the Hound either, can't believe people would want a broken violent drunk for their own Sister,daughter or friend.

I also don't see Tyrion worthy either.

Pod I can see, Ned Dayne in book, or maybe GRRM introduce someone later who be worthy.

Most likely alone at first marriage maybe later.

33 minutes ago, Lady Iris said:

*blink blink* That really happened? I have been holding off on reading the books til they're complete, now I just may decide to never read them.

It's phrasing from Jeyne Poole.

[OhOkayWhat]

7 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Some what true.

But to get over so many for so long puts him above many.

 

1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

Petyr is definitely a genius. He was outgambitting everyone. 

 

I doubt he was outgambitting everyone. He was just lying and gambling, lying and gambling in the middle of the chaos. Eventually the lies caught up with him.

Edited December 13, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[OhOkayWhat]

About Sandor, I'm just glad D&D did not need to use the terribly overused Beauty/Beast and the Bad boy / Good girl plots to developt the Hound.

[WindyNights]

2 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

 

 

I doubt he was outgambitting everyone. He was just lying and gambling, lying and gambling in the middle of the chaos. Eventually the lies caught up with him.

He needed a near omniscient being to take him down.

He was out-playing Varys, Cersei, Ned Stark, Tyrion, Tywin, the Vale Lords etc.

[OhOkayWhat]

19 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

He needed a near omniscient being to take him down.

Yes and not. Sansa needed Bran only for the details. She went to talk with Bran to find what else Petyr did. 

[nikma]

LF wanted too much. It's not possible to betray everyone and not die at one point. It was just too much. He betrayed Lannisters, Starks, Boltons, Tyrells, Arryns,...

He created more enemies than Cersei. If he stopped on time he would still be alive and powerful. 

But he was both smart and arrogant. His succeses made him think that he can get away with everything.

[anamika]

So, regarding this statement that Dave Hill made after Eastwatch...

Quote

On bringing back Gendry after a three-season absence: “We’ve always expected to bring Gendry back since we saw him rowing out. We almost brought him back in season 6 and it didn’t quite work out. We definitely wanted him here for the big mission, we wanted Robert Baratheon’s bastard son back into the show. It made sense that Davos would want to save this boy who’s like a surrogate son. And Joe is great which is a big positive.”

https://ew.com/tv/2017/08/13/game-of-thrones-eastwatch/

This makes it seem like Gendry is getting something at the end and that would tie in with Joe being at the Dragonpit.

But then Friki insists that Joe did not film in Seville.

Edited December 14, 2018 by anamika

[nikma]

Gendry could get Stormlands even if he is not at Dragonpit. 

[SimoneS]

I always felt that Gendry was brought back to reestablish the House Baratheon. After all, it was the other House still in the opening after the Starks and Lannisters. but now I worry that they just brought him back to die.

Edited December 14, 2018 by SimoneS

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I always felt that Gendry was brought back to reestablish the House Baratheon.

Agree.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I always felt that Gendry was brought back to reestablish the House Baratheon. After all, it was the other House still in the opening after the Starks and Lannisters. but now I worry that they just brought him back to die.

 

To me, the logical implication of Joe Dempsie not filming the 8x06 Dragonpit epilogue scene, which is what Friki said, is that Gendry is dead by the time the epilogue rolls around. Since I think Joe was involved with the Winterfell battle filming and was not involved in the KL exterior filming for 8x05 (and 8x06, I guess), he seems a possible candidate to perish in 8x03.

Regardless of whether Gendry lives or dies, I'm guessing that the Winterfell battle will claim multiple characters on Team Jon/Dany. It has to be truly devastating. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

31 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

To me, the logical implication of Joe Dempsie not filming the 8x06 Dragonpit epilogue scene, which is what Friki said, is that Gendry is dead by the time the epilogue rolls around.

It's been a discussion already on this thread, but Joe D. said he wrapped for the show on the dates of the Seville filming, it was reported he wrapped in Spain along with Sophie T. and others; and he was there for more than a couple of days (unlike people who allegedly were in Seville but didn't film). I think Friki is wrong at least on that detail. It doesn't mean Gendry will live, of course. But Jon and Dany aren't at the DP either and imo it doesn't automatically mean they're dead.

[GrailKing]

Remember the Dusty Springfield song?

Well here's to Wishing and Hoping; LOL

[anamika]

6 hours ago, nikma said:

Gendry could get Stormlands even if he is not at Dragonpit. 

Keeping in mind that as per Friki, 'Tyrion betrays the Starks', why do you think Yara would be at Tyrion's trial but not Gendry?

[nikma]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Keeping in mind that as per Friki, 'Tyrion betrays the Starks', why do you think Yara would be at Tyrion's trial but not Gendry?

Maybe he's injured.

[anamika]

48 minutes ago, nikma said:

Maybe he's injured.

After so many months? Tyrion's trial does not happen immediately as per Friki.

With Friki's insistence that the Dragonpit filming was Tyrion's trial and BsB's insistence that it's a 'VFX heavy scene' that apparently 'will blow everyone's minds', I am now wondering whether it could not be a combination of the two? Considering that Greenseer CCTV Bran is at the trial, there are high chances of there being VFX in these scenes.  Maybe it's just Bran, Davos, some soldiers and Tyrion at this trial. And everyone else is in a VFX heavy montage that will blow our minds as Tyrion's betrayal becomes clear.... Maybe BsB and Friki are partly right and partly wrong.

Friki seems to be getting his info from Spain production, but for some reason, he only has info about Tyrion.

• Tyrion is in cuffs in the trial, and yes, there is a marked difference how he looks, with longer hair and beard, worn out clothes and dirty skin, suggesting that he has been locked up for a couple of months at least. That means that it will pass time until he is judged.
• Tyrion betrays the Starks
• At some point Tyrion falls to his knees in horror and guilt
• Tyrion is executed (But not at the Dragonpit)
• In September Friki said - 'The reveal of his treason will be a long scene with 5 characters: Jon, Arya, Sansa, Daenerys and Tyrion'. More recently he added Bran to this group. (Not filmed at the dragonpit)

Why does he know absolutely nothing about the other characters present there, other than them being at Tyrion's trial. What do they do? What do they look like? I think he mentioned that Davos does not have a Hand of the King pin. IF Bran is supposed to be King in this scene - would Friki not have some info about him?!

And as per Javi:

• He basically confirms Friki's spoilers, saying that he heard the same thing. They have different sources.

• A scene in episode 6 in which Davos, Jon and Tyrion are walking in King's Landing. Apparently this is the aftermath of the destruction of the city. The camera pans to Tyrion showing him horrified?

• Tyrion is responsible for the burning of King's Landing.

• Javi was told that there were no wight's inside the city walls when this burning takes place. Tyrion's objective was to avoid the city population from turning into wight.

Now if Tyrion's betrayal is already proved to Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa and Bran in a long scene filmed elsewhere, why need a trial? If Jon and Davos see Tyrion being horrified at burning thousands of people to death, why need a trial? His guilt is already known. Why is Tyrion destroying KL and it's people to prevent them from becoming wights a 'betrayal of the Starks'?

Did they close Italica for more than a month because this scene just had to be filmed in the Dragonpit,  only to film a scene where a gathered group of lords sentence Tyrion to death? This could have been filmed anywhere. What's the significance of the Dragonpit to his trial?

I am now wondering if this Tyrion trial scene is in combination with the other scene Friki mentions - long scene featuring Tyrion's betrayal reveal filmed elsewhere - and it's all one long scene.

A lot of what Friki says is rather confusing to me. Especially considering how Dinklage comes off as so anti-Dany in his recap vid and Tyrion has been subtly sabotaging Dany to help his family and the set up is there for Tyrion betraying Dany with the Tarly burnings and them clashing. But as per Friki, Tyrion betrays the Starks - now that would indeed be sudden and come out of nowhere. Unless the show is setting it up, executing it and revealing it as a whodunnit next season.

Edited December 14, 2018 by anamika

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

After so many months? Tyrion's trial does not happen immediately as per Friki.

With Friki's insistence that the Dragonpit filming was Tyrion's trial and BsB's insistence that it's a 'VFX heavy scene' that apparently 'will blow everyone's minds', I am now wondering whether it could not be a combination of the two? Considering that Greenseer CCTV Bran is at the trial, there are high chances of there being VFX in these scenes.  Maybe it's just Bran, Davos, some soldiers and Tyrion at this trial. And everyone else is in a VFX heavy montage that will blow our minds as Tyrion's betrayal becomes clear.... Maybe BsB and Friki are partly right and partly wrong.

Friki seems to be getting his info from Spain production, but for some reason, he only has info about Tyrion.

• Tyrion is in cuffs in the trial, and yes, there is a marked difference how he looks, with longer hair and beard, worn out clothes and dirty skin, suggesting that he has been locked up for a couple of months at least. That means that it will pass time until he is judged.
• Tyrion betrays the Starks
• At some point Tyrion falls to his knees in horror and guilt
• Tyrion is executed (But not at the Dragonpit)
• In September Friki said - 'The reveal of his treason will be a long scene with 5 characters: Jon, Arya, Sansa, Daenerys and Tyrion'. More recently he added Bran to this group. (Not filmed at the dragonpit)

Why does he know absolutely nothing about the other characters present there, other than them being at Tyrion's trial. What do they do? What do they look like? I think he mentioned that Davos does not have a Hand of the King pin. IF Bran is supposed to be King in this scene - would Friki not have some info about him?!

And as per Javi:

• He basically confirms Friki's spoilers, saying that he heard the same thing. They have different sources.

• A scene in episode 6 in which Davos, Jon and Tyrion are walking in King's Landing. Apparently this is the aftermath of the destruction of the city. The camera pans to Tyrion showing him horrified?

• Tyrion is responsible for the burning of King's Landing.

• Javi was told that there were no wight's inside the city walls when this burning takes place. Tyrion's objective was to avoid the city population from turning into wight.

Now if Tyrion's betrayal is already proved to Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa and Bran in a long scene filmed elsewhere, why need a trial? If Jon and Davos see Tyrion being horrified at burning thousands of people to death, why need a trial? His guilt is already known. Why is Tyrion destroying KL and it's people to prevent them from becoming wights a 'betrayal of the Starks'?

Did they close Italica for more than a month because this scene just had to be filmed in the Dragonpit,  only to film a scene where a gathered group of lords sentence Tyrion to death? This could have been filmed anywhere. What's the significance of the Dragonpit to his trial?

I am now wondering if this Tyrion trial scene is in combination with the other scene Friki mentions - long scene featuring Tyrion's betrayal reveal filmed elsewhere - and it's all one long scene.

A lot of what Friki says is rather confusing to me. Especially considering how Dinklage comes off as so anti-Dany in his recap vid and Tyrion has been subtly sabotaging Dany to help his family and the set up is there for Tyrion betraying Dany with the Tarly burnings and them clashing. But as per Friki, Tyrion betrays the Starks - now that would indeed be sudden and come out of nowhere. Unless the show is setting it up, executing it and revealing it as a whodunnit next season.

 

NCW did allude to a whodunit-type reveal. However, BoatsexBaby has said that there is a reveal and resolution of the WW storyline that ties everything together.

Yeah, I don’t see how Tyrion locking civilians inside KL to be burned to death is a “betrayal of the Starks” as opposed to just a horrible thing to do. Unless there’s something else that he does and the burning of the KL civilians is part of some master plan to fuck over the Starks, but again, how is that a betrayal of just the Starks as opposed to a betrayal of Dany?

It also seems strange that all these people came from all over Westeros just for the sole purpose of seeing Tyrion tried and sentenced to death. Yara and Robin never gave two shits about KL civilians or the Starks. Robin may want to see the bad man fly, but badly enough to make the trip from the Vale to KL?

Edited December 14, 2018 by Eyes High

[nikma]

A lot of things are not clear, but I still think Tyrion's death will happen because that's the only thing right now that fits descriptions of the season we had from interviews. 

More info about WW would be nice, but that's hardly "brave" or "devicive".

[nikma]

And a lot of things are not clear because we don't have the whole information, not because it couldn't make sense.

 

If someone told you before S3 that Robb dies at some wedding wothout any other info it wouldn't make much sense. 

 

Why Tyrion is not killed in that big scene with Dany, Jon and the rest? Who knows? Why he wasn't killed the moment Oberyn died in trial? Maybe Dany wants public trial. It fits her character. Why she is not there then? Who knows, we will find out. Maybe Jon and Daenerys are there but on their dragons and Friki didn't know this because it's not filmed at the same place. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by nikma

[YaddaYadda]

This whole betrayal thing with Tyrion. Is him betraying Jon constitutes him betraying the Starks? Once they all get past their differences, I imagine they will be functioning as some kind of a unit. Does betraying one person equals betraying the pack?

If Tyrion betrays Jon, then this becomes treason and treason is punishable by death. If there's no Night's Watch anymore to send Tyrion to, then it's death for him. 

[BadAssRobinArryn]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

 

It also seems strange that all these people came from all over Westeros just for the sole purpose of seeing Tyrion tried and sentenced to death. Yara and Robin never gave two shits about KL civilians or the Starks. Robin may want to see the bad man fly, but badly enough to make the trip from the Vale to KL?

I think if the spoilers are true, these people probably already were in King's Landing. Maybe their homes were destroyed by the White Walkers and they had to flee and settled down in the South. That's really not a stretch.

[YaddaYadda]

BTW, in episode 7.6, Tyrion and Dany's talk before she goes on her rescue mission beyond the Wall, he says that to stop Cersei from doing anything against Dany during their meeting, they can threaten Cersei with burning down the city. 

[WindyNights]

6 hours ago, anamika said:

After so many months? Tyrion's trial does not happen immediately as per Friki.

With Friki's insistence that the Dragonpit filming was Tyrion's trial and BsB's insistence that it's a 'VFX heavy scene' that apparently 'will blow everyone's minds', I am now wondering whether it could not be a combination of the two? Considering that Greenseer CCTV Bran is at the trial, there are high chances of there being VFX in these scenes.  Maybe it's just Bran, Davos, some soldiers and Tyrion at this trial. And everyone else is in a VFX heavy montage that will blow our minds as Tyrion's betrayal becomes clear.... Maybe BsB and Friki are partly right and partly wrong.

Friki seems to be getting his info from Spain production, but for some reason, he only has info about Tyrion.

• Tyrion is in cuffs in the trial, and yes, there is a marked difference how he looks, with longer hair and beard, worn out clothes and dirty skin, suggesting that he has been locked up for a couple of months at least. That means that it will pass time until he is judged.
• Tyrion betrays the Starks
• At some point Tyrion falls to his knees in horror and guilt
• Tyrion is executed (But not at the Dragonpit)
• In September Friki said - 'The reveal of his treason will be a long scene with 5 characters: Jon, Arya, Sansa, Daenerys and Tyrion'. More recently he added Bran to this group. (Not filmed at the dragonpit)

Why does he know absolutely nothing about the other characters present there, other than them being at Tyrion's trial. What do they do? What do they look like? I think he mentioned that Davos does not have a Hand of the King pin. IF Bran is supposed to be King in this scene - would Friki not have some info about him?!

And as per Javi:

• He basically confirms Friki's spoilers, saying that he heard the same thing. They have different sources.

• A scene in episode 6 in which Davos, Jon and Tyrion are walking in King's Landing. Apparently this is the aftermath of the destruction of the city. The camera pans to Tyrion showing him horrified?

• Tyrion is responsible for the burning of King's Landing.

• Javi was told that there were no wight's inside the city walls when this burning takes place. Tyrion's objective was to avoid the city population from turning into wight.

Now if Tyrion's betrayal is already proved to Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa and Bran in a long scene filmed elsewhere, why need a trial? If Jon and Davos see Tyrion being horrified at burning thousands of people to death, why need a trial? His guilt is already known. Why is Tyrion destroying KL and it's people to prevent them from becoming wights a 'betrayal of the Starks'?

Did they close Italica for more than a month because this scene just had to be filmed in the Dragonpit,  only to film a scene where a gathered group of lords sentence Tyrion to death? This could have been filmed anywhere. What's the significance of the Dragonpit to his trial?

I am now wondering if this Tyrion trial scene is in combination with the other scene Friki mentions - long scene featuring Tyrion's betrayal reveal filmed elsewhere - and it's all one long scene.

A lot of what Friki says is rather confusing to me. Especially considering how Dinklage comes off as so anti-Dany in his recap vid and Tyrion has been subtly sabotaging Dany to help his family and the set up is there for Tyrion betraying Dany with the Tarly burnings and them clashing. But as per Friki, Tyrion betrays the Starks - now that would indeed be sudden and come out of nowhere. Unless the show is setting it up, executing it and revealing it as a whodunnit next season.

Friki thinks all the lords are there to discuss how to rule the kingdoms. He believes that Westeros is going to be split up and ruled by a council. It doesn't seem like there's a king/queen/Hand yet based on that.

 

2 hours ago, nikma said:

And a lot of things are not clear because we don't have the whole information, not because it couldn't make sense.

 

If someone told you before S3 that Robb dies at some wedding wothout any other info it wouldn't make much sense. 

 

Why Tyrion is not killed in that big scene with Dany, Jon and the rest? Who knows? Why he wasn't killed the moment Oberyn died in trial? Maybe Dany wants public trial. It fits her character. Why she is not there then? Who knows, we will find out. Maybe Jon and Daenerys are there but on their dragons and Friki didn't know this because it's not filmed at the same place. 

Why would they be on their dragons? Do you know how expensive that is?  

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

I think if the spoilers are true, these people probably already were in King's Landing. Maybe their homes were destroyed by the White Walkers and they had to flee and settled down in the South. That's really not a stretch.

The Iron Islands would be destroyed by the WWs? And there's supposedly a Dornish guy there, whose home wouldn't have been destroyed by the WWs.

Also, the trial takes place a few months after the defeat of the WWs, so one would expect people to be drifting back to their homes to rebuild even if they were destroyed, not settling permanently down south. Usually, as soon as it's safe to go back to areas devastated by disaster, people want to go back.

Quote

Why would they be on their dragons? Do you know how expensive that is?  

Assuming there are any dragons left by the epilogue (which I doubt), they could be perched on the amphitheatre ruins with Jon and Dany watching the proceedings from dragonback from a great height, which explains why the actors weren't needed in Seville. Kit and Emilia would film their dragonback scenes in studio on the mechanical saddle they use for the dragons, and then shots of them sitting on the dragons would be spliced together into the Dragonpit shots with CGI.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Eyes High

[nikma]

It was expensive in S7 as well but Dany came on her dragon.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

BTW, in episode 7.6, Tyrion and Dany's talk before she goes on her rescue mission beyond the Wall, he says that to stop Cersei from doing anything against Dany during their meeting, they can threaten Cersei with burning down the city. 

I don't think Cersei give a shit to be honest. When Jon pointed out what would happen to the 1 million in KL, she retorted, it be an improvement.

[Eyes High]

2 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I don't think Cersei give a shit to be honest. When Jon pointed out what would happen to the 1 million in KL, she retorted, it be an improvement.

Hee, I love Cersei, she is just so terrible.

[nikma]

8 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I don't think Cersei give a shit to be honest. When Jon pointed out what would happen to the 1 million in KL, she retorted, it be an improvement.

Underrated line! 

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

I don't think Cersei give a shit to be honest. When Jon pointed out what would happen to the 1 million in KL, she retorted, it be an improvement.

I know Cersei doesn't give a fig about the people of King's Landing. My point was more about the speculation of Tyrion locking the people of King's Landing in and burning down the city and how there seems to be a hint for it back in season 7. 

[WindyNights]

4 hours ago, nikma said:

It was expensive in S7 as well but Dany came on her dragon.

That was for a badass battle.

[nikma]

In Dragonpit.

[GraceK]

[BadAssRobinArryn]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

The Iron Islands would be destroyed by the WWs? And there's supposedly a Dornish guy there, whose home wouldn't have been destroyed by the WWs.

Also, the trial takes place a few months after the defeat of the WWs, so one would expect people to be drifting back to their homes to rebuild even if they were destroyed, not settling permanently down south. Usually, as soon as it's safe to go back to areas devastated by disaster, people want to go back. 

The Night King has a flying Dragon now. So I don't think either Islands nor the high mountains in the Vale are very safe.