Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[SeanC]

I will say, if this ends with Bran on the throne (and, for the record, my most probable book theory had him as Lord of Winterfell, at least prior to the character being rather explicit that that sort of thing was past him now), then the writers of this show's handling of him becomes extra baffling, because he's been reduced to essentially a prop since probably Season 3.

[nikma]

That's the reason why he won't be king IMO. They knew the ending since 2013, while they were writing S4, and since then Bran became less and less important. He is still big character, but I think even Theon and Sam are bigger than him in the show now. Even Davos and Jorah. I won't even compare him to Big 7. 

I think he is objectively in TOP 15 most important characters when we consider the whole show, but he comes after Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Cersei, Jaime, Theon and Sam.

He is in group with Jorah, Davos, Hound, Brienne and Melisandre IMO. 

But when you think about some dead characters like Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Tywin, Joffrey, Ramsay and so on, I'm not even sure Bran would be in TOP 20.

 

So, no. he won't be king. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by nikma

[Happy Harpy]

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

Sansa can have a sex life  even without a marriage, but I doubt it would be with Theon and even so it wouldn't be a marriage. One of the prime reasons for marriage, at least in Westeros, is to get children (and the Starks may well need a heir, considering Jon isn't really from the "main" line (and a walking corpse a la Dondarrion, to some extent, allthough this may not stop the suspected boatsexbaby), Bran is crippled and Arya may not be more inclined then Sansa to take care of getting a direct heir for Ned Stark. I disagree that this would be possible "in-universe", particularly so in the books. Eyes High rightly points out that the legal marriage to Tyrion won't be set aside as easily as in the show, so it remains to be seen how this will be resolved.

 

Oh, I agree about her marriage to Tyrion. I used to believe that her endgame would be either dying with WF, either living with Tyrion since she was already married to him (sexless marriage at least at first, but with someone she trusted and felt comfortable with as a friend + giving her more power). Tyrion is still the most likely option imo, the show seemed to push that angle in S2-S4 and reminded the audience their marriage happened with a mention, and every season IIRC. But if Friki's info is right, she lives and Tyrion dies, so it would open other possibilities.

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

As /EveryFckngChicken pointed out, Nutter's DP (Franco) was in Iceland, so we're probably looking at 8x01, 8x02 or 8x04. The Dragonpit scene was from 8x06.

However, as /EveryFckngChicken also pointed out, it is possible (if unlikely) that Nutter/Franco filmed something from another episode since the director for that episode was unavailable. Apparently, such things have happened in previous seasons.

Whatever they were filming there, it didn't take very long. Kit and Emilia were there between January 28th and February 1st. The Rhaegar/Lyanna wedding scene in Season 7 took less than a day to film.

...In other news, a number of betting markets now have Bran as the clear Iron Throne favourite. Inside information moving the needle...? (Betting on Bran on one website was suspended in the spring because too many people were betting on him.)

 

It's possible they only needed a couple of exterior scenes in Iceland, to complete others filmed in studio elsewhere. Word was circulating that they weren't the only actors there, although it's the typical rumor whenever there's a secretive location filming. I had thought then of Rory McCann, who's been a real-life Faceless Man this off-season, since I'm not sure that Sandor's vision in the flames was only a guidepost for the expedition beyond the Wall.

People sometimes dismiss Bran because he was absent during a season; his robot manners in season 7 could be a way of detaching the audience from the character, the way Tommen's weakness was used. OTOH it could be that he was absent because his training didn't come off well for a TV show, and it could be that Bran is playing a role since he's traumatized after the cave and can't bear the weight of his mistake. I'm sure he'll have a big role to play, although it's difficult to guess which one. He said he "couldn't be lord of anything", which technically doesn't mean he can't be king. But the king in Westeros is called "Lord of the Seven Kingdom" so still technically, it would exclude him.

29 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

King Bran with Sansa and Arya ruling at his side?

Not the option I'd gather from those bets. Arya comes after Jon and Daenerys and Sansa is farther behind, after Tyrion and The Night King (!).

I don't see why Bran as king would imply his sisters ruling at his side, if it means sharing royal power and status at least.

15 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I will say, if this ends with Bran on the throne (and, for the record, my most probable book theory had him as Lord of Winterfell, at least prior to the character being rather explicit that that sort of thing was past him now), then the writers of this show's handling of him becomes extra baffling, because he's been reduced to essentially a prop since probably Season 3.

Imo, he wasn't in S4 where he had an agency and dilemmas, and in S6 he was all but Luke  Skywalker circa ROTJ.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[onyxrose81]

Bran as King would be so disappointing to me, with the little focus he’s had on the show.  

[nikma]

Bran was always so detached from the rest of the story, it was really hard to make him truly a main character in the show, no matter how important his powera are,beacuse, after S1, if you don't count his interactions with Theon, he spends 5 seasons withut meeting or reunion with any major character. He had Osha, Reeds, Rickon and Hodor. 

 

When you compare that wil large cast of great characters that Arya, Sansa, Jon, Tyrion and the rest had around them since S1, it's not strange that D&D were not able to make him bigger than he was in the show. 

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Imo, he wasn't in S4 where he had an agency and dilemmas, and in S6 he was all but Luke  Skywalker circar ROTJ.

I could maybe see Season 4, but in Season 6?  Contrary to what the writers had been talking up, he hadn't really learned anything in the time he was offscreen, then he got a literal exposition dump that essentially reduced any sort of skills development to flipping a switch, and got dragged away.  The only thing that might have counted as character development was his curiosity resulting in all those guys getting killed, and there was zero followup to that.

[Eyes High]

16 minutes ago, onyxrose81 said:

Bran as King would be so disappointing to me, with the little focus he’s had on the show.  

I can't get excited about a Bran throne endgame, either. It's just...meh. It would explain why the cast seems so lukewarm about the ending, though.

[bubble sparkly]

Unless they de-robot Bran I don’t see how he could be King. Everyone from lords to commoners would haaattteee him and he wouldn’t be capable or willing to do the tasks normally required of a ruler.

[tangerine95]

I'd be disappointed about Bran ending up as king.I just see zero set up for it especially with how his story has been handled on the show.It don't see it happening but who knows,this sudden surge in betting on him is interesting.Tbh if my faves all survive and get even semi happy endings,I wouldn't really care about who sits on the throne but Bran would be an out of nowhere choice for endgame king imo.

[Happy Harpy]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

I could maybe see Season 4, but in Season 6?  Contrary to what the writers had been talking up, he hadn't really learned anything in the time he was offscreen, then he got a literal exposition dump that essentially reduced any sort of skills development to flipping a switch, and got dragged away.  The only thing that might have counted as character development was his curiosity resulting in all those guys getting killed, and there was zero followup to that.

Bran had the classic storyline of the apprentice who lets his emotions and his impatience overwhelm him, and screws up big time. He had feelings. He missed his family, he wanted to stay in the vision at WF, called Ned at the ToJ...imo, it might have been why he was back in his WF vision when the NK attacked. He was affected by what he did to Hodor, he was crying when he understood. Imo, it's too early to say there was no follow-up in case he pretends to be insensitive, or if he retrieves his personality little by little (hugging Arya back) after he froze due to TMI about everything.

It might not be, but the possibility that the fallout is dealt with in S7 isn't far-fetched.

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I can't get excited about a Bran throne endgame, either. It's just...meh. It would explain why the cast seems so lukewarm about the ending, though.

Something that people might be OK with "on reflexion" like Joe Dempsie said? Bran is a Stark, he used to be a cute kid that the audience rooted for. Stranger things have happened. Like people (me, for example) now rooting for the sister fucker who callously threw the cute kid out of the window.

It isn't an option I'd be particularly excited for, unless it meant Meera was back and they'd rule together (not gonna happen, so well). But...

6 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Tbh if my faves all survive and get even semi happy endings,I wouldn't really care about who sits on the throne

This is where I stand. And at long as it isn't Cersei, LOL.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

I will say, if this ends with Bran on the throne (and, for the record, my most probable book theory had him as Lord of Winterfell, at least prior to the character being rather explicit that that sort of thing was past him now), then the writers of this show's handling of him becomes extra baffling, because he's been reduced to essentially a prop since probably Season 3.

Did you not say something similar when the Tyrion betrayal leaks came out - something about how that would make Tyrion's character development the most baffling?

These arguments are giving me deja vu to the time when I was peddling the Tyrion betrayal theory and pretty much everyone here scoffed at it because show Tyrion was a saint and a moral beacon.  And then the Friki leaks came out and now suddenly Tyrion as a traitor does not get as much resistance.

If the show is going to have the same ending as the books, then my philosophy has been to not use the plot driven writing of the show to determine which character is going to end up where. GRRM's dark, bitter Tyrion is not going down the same path as the Gandhi of Westeros, Tyrion Lannister.

Being 'unpredictable' and 'brave' and 'satisfactory on reflection' does not merely mean that it's Jon/Dany dying.  The show's many changes could mean that GRRM's ending on the show could be doubly unpredictable and brave. Show Bran has been used as just a prop for the some time now as @SeanC mentioned. But he is undoubtedly a main character in the books, which means he will do important things and end up in important places.

Pretty much the majority opinion currently is that Sansa is going to be Lady of WF and continue the Stark line while Arya/Bran are irrelevant. We have articles like this:

https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2461645/why-sansa-stark-should-absolutely-survive-the-game-of-thrones-finale

which makes the case for why Sansa will definitely survive game of thrones. We constantly hear about how Sansa will make it because 'her story is about survival' (which makes no sense to me but whatever) and how the show has established that Sansa will rule the North.

But maybe that will not be the case. Maybe Sansa will not end up in charge of the North. And that will indeed be unpredictable and shocking to a lot of show only viewers.

Edited November 22, 2018 by anamika

[GrailKing]

45 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I can't get excited about a Bran throne endgame, either. It's just...meh. It would explain why the cast seems so lukewarm about the ending, though.

I'm not going either way, for or against; but didn't GRRM say it would be a surprise?

Only thing to me that would be surprising is either Bran, Robyn or someone not of the main core group.

As far as the cast, I think it's just a way to cope with the stress  of not letting anything out.

49 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Unless they de-robot Bran I don’t see how he could be King. Everyone from lords to commoners would haaattteee him and he wouldn’t be capable or willing to do the tasks normally required of a ruler.

Why not? He can ride a horse, be on the battlefield ( though can't fight ) and command, even as a emotionless Bran, he still has a decent mind and procreation is still up in the air.

[Smad]

Bran on the Throne? Isn't he above such worldly concerns now? So unless the Bran1000 gets hacked and has a virus downloaded into him that resets him back to human being, I don't see how this outcome is possible. It also would be majorly lame for a character that has done nothing for 7 Seasons (unless one counts screwing up and getting people killed) to end up ruling what's left of Westeros. That's not bittersweet, that's just meh. Of course I would have hoped they would dispense with the IT completely and have 7 independent kingdoms. Or have one representative government with 7 federal states where all are equals in terms of decision making. Why still have a throne, I thought they were going to break the wheel?

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

That's the reason why he won't be king IMO. They knew the ending since 2013, while they were writing S4, and since then Bran became less and less important. He is still big character, but I think even Theon and Sam are bigger than him in the show now. Even Davos and Jorah. I won't even compare him to Big 7. 

I think he is objectively in TOP 15 most important characters when we consider the whole show, but he comes after Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, Cersei, Jaime, Theon and Sam.

He is in group with Jorah, Davos, Hound, Brienne and Melisandre IMO. 

But when you think about some dead characters like Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Tywin, Joffrey, Ramsay and so on, I'm not even sure Bran would be in TOP 20.

 

So, no. he won't be king. 

Maybe in screentime but Bran is a far more plot important character than Theon or Sam. The story starts with him according to GRRM. 

And the three eyed crow along with Jojen have said that he's the most important person.

[anamika]

GRRM already finds Bran the hardest character to write considering he is 7-9 years old. Imagine GRRM writing a robo Bran POV chapter. Maybe that's why TWoW is never coming out.

Bran was perfectly fine at the end of season 6. Robo Bran in season 7 was to enable Sansa to be Lady of Winterfell while Bran was there. It's like the show splitting KITN/Lady of Winterfell,  to allow for Sansa to be lady of WF. A lot of the writing in season 7 for the North revolved around resolving and ending the LF story  and were plot based decisions.

Also recall, GRRM has said with respect to the loss of the 5 year gap : "If a twelve-year old has to conquer the world, then so be it." Based on how fast his timeline moves in the next two books, this could refer to either Arya or Bran at the end of the series.

As for importance, Bran has currently more POV chapters in the books than Jaime and Cersei - and his POV chapters are all the more relevant because it's in an isolated setting and it's solely about him like Arya, Jon and Dany's POV chapters. Bran has actually ruled Winterfell and the North for almost an entire book. He's the Stark most closely connected to Winterfell. He will probably have the most chapters in the next book considering GRRM has mentioned that we will be exploring the Lands of Always Winter. His mentor is Bloodraven - a cunning spymaster, warrior, a former hand of the king and one of the most fascinating characters in the series.

Quote

"Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger," Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, "and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer."

Bran being a greenseer makes him a very powerful person.

Nutter has also indicated that we will see Bran's shenanigans in the series finale with his time travel comment.  Isaac was there for Seville filming and he may have filmed in Randalstown Forest for what may have been the very last scene of the show.

Edited November 22, 2018 by anamika

[Smad]

3 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Maybe in screentime but Bran is a far more plot important character than Theon or Sam. The story starts with him according to GRRM. 

And the three eyed crow along with Jojen have said that he's the most important person.

Maybe in the books. But what has he actually done in the show? He disobeyed his mother and helped jump start the Lannister/Stark conflict. He couldn't sleep so he just did some more messing up and got the 3ER, Summer, Hodor and Children killed. If those were the last Children he basically made a whole species go extinct. But in terms of plot in the overall story...he has done absolutely nothing so far. He even sucks as an exposition tool. Freaking Sam is better at finding out stuff and he doesn't have magical powers. They could have cut Bran out of the story (it wouldn't change anything in the show) and just had Sam discover everything.

I didn't even realize he wasn't in S5 until he showed up again the next Season. That's how inconsequential he is. Well to me anyway. He just doesn't register because he does nothing for the plot.

[anamika]

u/throwaway275445 on FF posted this blurb for the final book before all the 5 year gap issues:

Quote

"Continuing the most imaginative and ambitious epic fantasy since The Lord of the Rings Winter has come at last and no man can say whether it will ever go again. The Wall is broken, the cold dead legions are coming south, and the people of the Seven Kingdoms turn to their queen to protect them. But Daenerys Targaryen is learning what Robert Baratheon learned before her; that it is one thing to win a throne and quite another to sit on one. Before she can hope to defeat the Others, Dany knows she must unite the broken realm behind her. Wolf and lion must hunt together, maester and greenseer work as one, all the blood feuds must be put aside, the bitter rivals and sworn enemies join hands. The Winds of Winter tells the story of Dany’s fight to save her new-won kingdom, of two desperate journeys beyond the known world in to the very hearts of ice and fire, and of the final climactic battle at Winterfell, with life itself in the balance."

Folks on FF are calling this fake. But it was pretty much what was put out by Amazon Germany for the book blurb some four years ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3fen6b/plot_summery_of_twow_from_amazon_germany_spoilers/

A lot has changed since then and Dany is still stuck in Meereen unable to advance towards Westeros, let alone unify the 7K under her like Aegon the Conqueror.

Now, even if this is fake, a lot of it seems to align with what has happened on the show. The line that caught my eye was the 'maester and greenseer' working as one. Considering that Bran and Sam have now become one unit, and Isaac and John Bradley have filmed at pretty much the same time for next season, maybe GRRM did intend for the Sam/Bran team up considering Bran will be working beyond the wall to figure out the Others and Sam will be doing the same at the Citadel.

[WindyNights]

23 minutes ago, anamika said:

u/throwaway275445 on FF posted this blurb for the final book before all the 5 year gap issues:

Folks on FF are calling this fake. But it was pretty much what was put out by Amazon Germany for the book blurb some four years ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3fen6b/plot_summery_of_twow_from_amazon_germany_spoilers/

A lot has changed since then and Dany is still stuck in Meereen unable to advance towards Westeros, let alone unify the 7K under her like Aegon the Conqueror.

Now, even if this is fake, a lot of it seems to align with what has happened on the show. The line that caught my eye was the 'maester and greenseer' working as one. Considering that Bran and Sam have now become one unit, and Isaac and John Bradley have filmed at pretty much the same time for next season, maybe GRRM did intend for the Sam/Bran team up considering Bran will be working beyond the wall to figure out the Others and Sam will be doing the same at the Citadel.

It's fake. I've seen the blurb before and talked about it with others on Westeros forum.

[Eyes High]

9 hours ago, anamika said:

Pretty much the majority opinion currently is that Sansa is going to be Lady of WF and continue the Stark line while Arya/Bran are irrelevant. We have articles like this:

https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2461645/why-sansa-stark-should-absolutely-survive-the-game-of-thrones-finale

which makes the case for why Sansa will definitely survive game of thrones. We constantly hear about how Sansa will make it because 'her story is about survival' (which makes no sense to me but whatever) and how the show has established that Sansa will rule the North.

But maybe that will not be the case. Maybe Sansa will not end up in charge of the North. And that will indeed be unpredictable and shocking to a lot of show only viewers.

 

Well, if Bran is ruling in KL, presumably one of Sansa/Arya has to rule the North, and if both survive, Sansa in the show at least would be the logical choice, so I’m not sure how you go from “Bran could be king” to “Sansa may not rule the North.” If anything, Bran being unavailable to act as Lord of Winterfell makes Sansa ruling the North that much more likely.

With that said, well before March, a poster on /Freefolk claimed that Bran would end up king, but as a “knowing pawn” of Sansa and Arya. So less a God Emperor of Dune situation and more an Aegon the Conqueror situation (where he left his sisters to run things for him), minus the incest. Of course, I’m not sure what’s supposed to happen with Winterfell if the Starklings are all at KL running things, unless Winterfell becomes the new seat of government.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

No way that I believe that Bran ends up on the Iron Throne. I would believe Robin ends up on the Iron Throne before Bran. At least Robin has an army to support him.

Edited November 22, 2018 by SimoneS

[nikma]

8 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Maybe in screentime but Bran is a far more plot important character than Theon or Sam. The story starts with him according to GRRM. 

And the three eyed crow along with Jojen have said that he's the most important person.

Yeah, but Night King is also more important plot character than 90% of the cast, but that still doesn't make him truly main character.

Bran was removed from the story since the beginning. Always in the background, since S1. There was no way to make him as big as Sansa, Arya and Jon. He is not major character and that's fine.

Edited November 22, 2018 by nikma

[Eyes High]

29 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

No way that I believe that Bran ends up on the Iron Throne. I would believe Robin ends up on the Iron Throne before Bran.

 

What else would explain multiple betting markets converging towards favouring Bran? Because I have no idea.

Betting was suspended shortly before S7 aired on who would be sitting the Iron Throne at the end of the season, because too many people were betting on Cersei, and that proved correct.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eyes High

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Well, if Bran is ruling in KL, presumably one of Sansa/Arya has to rule the North, and if both survive, Sansa in the show at least would be the logical choice, so I’m not sure how you go from “Bran could be king” to “Sansa may not rule the North.” If anything, Bran being unavailable to act as Lord of Winterfell makes Sansa ruling the North that much more likely.

 

Maybe because I don't think that Sansa would be the 'logical choice' for the North since there is another Stark other than Bran on the show still? I mean everyone here thinks that Bran is not the logical choice for KL. So if Bran is ruling in KL, why should anyone expect the 'logical choice' for the North?

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

With that said, well before March, a poster on /Freefolk claimed that Bran would end up king, but as a “knowing pawn” of Sansa and Arya. So less a God Emperor of Dune situation and more an Aegon the Conqueror situation (where he left his sisters to run things for him), minus the incest. Of course, I’m not sure what’s supposed to happen with Winterfell if the Starklings are all at KL running things, unless Winterfell becomes the new seat of government.

Like you said, this makes no sense. Who will be running Winterfell if all the Starks are in KL. And Bran being a pawn of Sansa and Arya is confusing. Why be a pawn at all?

If the Lands of Always Winter are incorporated into Westeros, then WF could become the new capital.

Edited November 22, 2018 by anamika

[screamin]

41 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

What else would explain multiple betting markets converging towards favouring Bran? Because I have no idea.

Betting was suspended shortly before S7 aired on who would be sitting the Iron Throne at the end of the season, because too many people were betting on Cersei, and that proved correct.

A bunch of numerical buffalo following a statistical fluke or fake gossip over a cliff? I understand it sometimes happens in the stock market too.

I still think there will BE no Iron Throne at the end of the series, and I agree that Bran seems one of the least satisfying candidates as king (I'm surprised Sweetrobin didn't show up on that list).

[Edith]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Betting was suspended shortly before S7 aired on who would be sitting the Iron Throne at the end of the season, because too many people were betting on Cersei, and that proved correct.

 

I didn’t know about this...Interesting 

Quote

Like you said, this makes no sense. Who will be running Winterfell if all the Starks are in KL. And Bran being a pawn of Sansa and Arya is confusing. Why be a pawn at all?

Well Winterfell gets burned. According to Friki we will see WF being rebuilt, if we believe him, so maybe it will be left as an open ending on who gets to rule Winterfell.

I think it was Liam that mentioned that not everything would be tie up at the end.

A lot of you love to mentioned GRRM interview about Aragon ruling, and how Dany and Jon storylines have them learning to rule, but you guys always forget that Bran was the first character who has a learning storyline in the book, and a really successful one, something that neither Jon or Dany did.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Edith

[Smad]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Maybe because I don't think that Sansa would be the 'logical choice' for the North since there is another Stark other than Bran on the show still? I mean everyone here thinks that Bran is not the logical choice for KL. So if Bran is ruling in KL, why should anyone expect the 'logical choice' for the North?

There are 2 Starks (if you count Jon) and both have said over and over again that ruling ain't for them. It's been Arya's freaking motto since S1. 'That's not me.' And if she actually were to become Lady of Winterfell (if they even rebuild it), she'd need a character transplant. Who would want to be under Arya's rule? One wrong word and the head comes off (like the Northern lords) along with the face (like Sansa) or at least the threat thereof. There would be no staff or people in Winterfell. And Jon never wants to rule as an actual ruler. Can you imagine him figuring out grain stores and the likes? I sure can't. And Bran as ruler of anything? Again a character transplant is needed. Imagine his rule.

Lord X/Y/Z: presents their problems before Bran in court

Bran: I don't concern myself with the problems of mere mortals, I'm the 3-Eyed-Raven. If I couldn't be bothered interfering when my sisters were about the kill each other despite there being bigger problems on the horizon, why would whatever your problem is be of concern for me. But Lord X let me tell you how beautiful your daughter looked when she was raped. Oh and Lord Y, I must say, your son was one fierce undead warrior. And Lord Z, when your daughter came into this world, your former wife looked so serene and happy before she died after giving birth.

What a king.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, screamin said:

A bunch of numerical buffalo following a statistical fluke or fake gossip over a cliff? I understand it sometimes happens in the stock market too.

What fake gossip? There hasn't been a peep about King Bran anywhere that I've seen other than that Freefolk post from back in January.

There are now at least three betting markets betting on King Bran, with betting "spikes" shifting at separate times: the first flurry of bets on BetWay was in March, and betting shifted on Bovada to Bran in the last two weeks. Why? Why do they all think Bran will be king?

I went back over what was going on on Monday, March 12th when the initial flurry of bets on Bran led to betting being suspended. (Things had been quiet over the weekend according to BetWay: it was only on Monday that the betting went wild.)

The week before (week of March 5th), James Hibberd was in Belfast, where he supposedly witnessed a very spoilery 8x06 scene.

On March 13th, Alexandra Lenas Parker posted photos of her visit to the GOT set with Sean Parker. She posted a photo where she is sitting on the Dragonstone throne and another where she is wearing Dany's S7 white coat.

So assuming that Alex Parker posted her photos the day after her set visit, were the Parkers responsible for that flurry of bets? Or was it Hibberd who saw something and then told his friends at EW? 

I can't think it was a cast/crew thing, since they would have been well aware of the endgame ruler before March 12th. Extras, maybe? I don't think it has anything to do with the night shoots, since those were for 8x03 and would be unlikely to spoil the endgame.

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Maybe because I don't think that Sansa would be the 'logical choice' for the North since there is another Stark other than Bran on the show still? I mean everyone here thinks that Bran is not the logical choice for KL. So if Bran is ruling in KL, why should anyone expect the 'logical choice' for the North?

Between Sansa and Arya, Sansa would be the logical choice on the show, since she was Lady of Winterfell in Season 7 and at the end of Season 7, Arya acknowledged her leadership.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

With that said, well before March, a poster on /Freefolk claimed that Bran would end up king, but as a “knowing pawn” of Sansa and Arya. So less a God Emperor of Dune situation and more an Aegon the Conqueror situation (where he left his sisters to run things for him), minus the incest. Of course, I’m not sure what’s supposed to happen with Winterfell if the Starklings are all at KL running things, unless Winterfell becomes the new seat of government.

I'm more inclined to believe Winterfell ( or perhaps Haranhall ) becomes the new seat.

Unless Bran stays stuck in his emo mode, not sure he be a pawn just depend on them more because; they're in the "real world ".

Unless that's what you mean by knowing pawn.

Edited November 22, 2018 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

What else would explain multiple betting markets converging towards favouring Bran? Because I have no idea.

Betting was suspended shortly before S7 aired on who would be sitting the Iron Throne at the end of the season, because too many people were betting on Cersei, and that proved correct.

 

I'm not one to believe in some sort of betting parlor for results based on a tv series, I'm more inclined to go with GRRM 's will be a surprise, and to me that leaves Bran or Robyn and I could see Sansa by each and or the Lady of Winterfell. Arya second as LOWF, because she's also a Stark, also along with Arya's none of us got what we want line.

Edited November 22, 2018 by GrailKing

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

What else would explain multiple betting markets converging towards favouring Bran? Because I have no idea.

 I have no clue what it means. Just like I didn't have a clue what there being a statue of Sansa meant, but I didn't think that it meant that she would die and this gambling market doesn't make me believe that Bran will end up sitting on the Iron Throne.

As I think about GoT which the typical sci fantasy story, I don't see how Bran ends up ruling the Seven Kingdoms. Why create a secret Targaryen prince, if the heir of the Starks will end up on the Iron Throne.  Besides Bran has already rejected becoming the Lord of Winterfell because he is the Three Eyed Raven. Why he would agree to be the next King of the Seven Kingdoms? Also, who would accept a king who they didn't know for sure could conceive a child? Yeah, I need more than some gambling market odds to persuade me Bran will be sitting on the Iron Throne at the end.

[Eyes High]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

 I have no clue what it means. Just like I didn't have a clue what there being a statue of Sansa meant, but I didn't think that it meant that she would die and this gambling market doesn't make me believe that Bran will end up sitting on the Iron Throne.

Multiple gambling markets, with separate shifts towards Bran more than six months apart.

15 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I'm not one to believe in some sort of betting parlor for results based on a tv series, I'm more inclined to go with GRRM 's will be a surprise, and to me that leaves Bran or Robyn and I could see Sansa by each and or the Lady of Winterfell. 

I've said for a while that I thought the endgame ruler would be one (or more) of the OG5, but Bran to me was the least likely of the lot, but then, I also thought a Targ restoration was likely, and if the markets are right, it ain't gonna happen, so...

Quote

Arya second as LOWF, because she's also a Stark, also along with Arya's none of us got what we want line.

Well, Sansa may yet get to "sit next to a handsome young king on the Iron Throne," except that it will be her brother Bran. (Twist!)

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, nikma said:

Yeah, but Night King is also more important plot character than 90% of the cast, but that still doesn't make him truly main character.

Bran was removed from the story since the beginning. Always in the background, since S1. There was no way to make him as big as Sansa, Arya and Jon. He is not major character and that's fine.

I don't know about that; if he's the final reason or person to actually beat the NK, that makes him a ( if not the )major character; and GRRM did say ALL the Starks would be important, so I put him on equal footing, he's just doing it in the background some what like Sansa.

10 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Well, Sansa may yet get to "sit next to a handsome young king on the Iron Throne," except that it will be her brother Bran. (Twist!)

And I think she like that fine, no worries or rush to find a husband.

[Eyes High]

I missed this rumour on /Freefolk a while back, but we never discussed it when it was originally posted it, so here it is:

Quote

 

A rumor no one has heard!

At a family gathering in Utah this week, an in-law told us a wild story.

Back in the late winter/ early spring, he visited the doctor. When he was in the waiting room, he saw a very tall, familiar looking twentysomething woman.

During his appointment, his provider asked him if he noticed Sansa Stark in the waiting room. The provider proceeded to tell him the office had been seeing several GoT actors who were in town for filming S8 (something about permits or insurance requiring physical). Apparently GoT chose Utah for its “unique landscape.”

(And yes, the provider specified GoT and not another Sophie project. Didn’t get the names of the other actors in town because provider didn’t offer them)

My first thought was to think this was ridiculous. As I thought about it, maybe...?

HBO has existing infrastructure in Utah for Westworld—it would be easy to scout locations, hire crew etc

Utah has landscape that could pass for many Westerosi locations—desert, mountains, glaciers. It could double for Dorne, the North, the Crownlands or Riverlands in winter, the Reach, Beyond the Wall ....

If they needed limited location work for important scenes in a place that no one would look for them, this would be ideal: close to LA, no fans or paparazzi watching the airports, lots of private airports for charters, easy for UK actors already in LA to visit without attention. Most important: NO ONE WOULD SUSPECT IT so no drones, paparazzi, freefolk spies, tourists etc.

I’ve heard stranger rumors about S8 filming :shrugs:

 

This would be one big HIPAA violation if true, but doctors bragging about their high-profile patients has been known to happen.

I do know that Sophie wasn't seen in Utah, and "late winter/early spring" would cover a period of time--February/March/April, I assume--when Sophie was pretty much accounted for at all times, being either in Canada (filming Heavy), in Belfast, or elsewhere with her fiance. Sophie was in Utah in March 2017, attending Comic Con incognito, but that wouldn't have been for GOT filming.

Utah does have some stunning landscapes, but surely they could find something equally beautiful in Northern Ireland, Spain or Iceland that fit the bill...? Spain has deserts, Iceland has glaciers, and Northern Ireland has hills.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eyes High

[screamin]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

What fake gossip? There hasn't been a peep about King Bran anywhere that I've seen other than that Freefolk post from back in January.

As in the stock market, some people might get what they think is insider info that other people (like you and I) would not be privy to. You know that they're betting on SOME info, the content of which you're not aware of - so, yes, there is gossip going around you're not privy to. And since you have no idea of the source or the content of the gossip that prompted the bets, you have no way of knowing if it's real or fake. So it may indeed be fake gossip prompting those particular bets.

Edited November 22, 2018 by screamin

[WindyNights]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

 I have no clue what it means. Just like I didn't have a clue what there being a statue of Sansa meant, but I didn't think that it meant that she would die and this gambling market doesn't make me believe that Bran will end up sitting on the Iron Throne.

As I think about GoT which the typical sci fantasy story, I don't see how Bran ends up ruling the Seven Kingdoms. Why create a secret Targaryen prince, if the heir of the Starks will end up on the Iron Throne.  Besides Bran has already rejected becoming the Lord of Winterfell because he is the Three Eyed Raven. Why he would agree to be the next King of the Seven Kingdoms? Also, who would accept a king who they didn't know for sure could conceive a child? Yeah, I need more than some gambling market odds to persuade me Bran will be sitting on the Iron Throne at the end.

Same reason that he killed Ned, Robb and paralyzed Bran. To mislead you.

-----

GRRM: I’ve said in many interviews that I like my fiction to be unpredictable. I like there to be considerable suspense. I killed Ned in the first book and it shocked a lot of people. I killed Ned because everybody thinks he’s the hero and that, sure, he’s going to get into trouble, but then he’ll somehow get out of it. The next predictable thing is to think his eldest son is going to rise up and avenge his father. And everybody is going to expect that. So immediately [killing Robb] became the next thing I had to do.

-------

If that is GRRM's thought process about the story then GRRM created a secret Targaryen prince and gave Daenerys dragons to mislead you into thinking that they're going to win the Iron Throne while the crippled Stark heir is in the back learning magic.

-----

Bran's a god-like being with near omniscience. See how easily he took care of Littlefinger? He can pretty much reach into anyone's past and blackmail them into doing what he wants.

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Same reason that he killed Ned, Robb and paralyzed Bran. To mislead you.

Sucks to be Martin then because he didn't mislead me or others who are fans of the sci fantasy genre with his predictable plot devices. I am not getting into a debate over comments about story intent that come from Martin's interviews. Most of his interviews about his story are jibber jabber from a man who cannot finish writing his story even though he is borrowing sections of Lord of The Rings and Memory, Sorrow and Thorn.

[anamika]

11 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Between Sansa and Arya, Sansa would be the logical choice on the show, since she was Lady of Winterfell in Season 7 and at the end of Season 7, Arya acknowledged her leadership.

 

What I am asking is that since Bran is not the logical choice for the Iron Throne and yet we are speculating on his getting that throne, why do you expect the logical choice to get the North? 

I mean, in season 7 Bran basically tells Sansa that he is just the 3ER and not fit for ruling anything. He is just sitting off by himself looking into the fires and speaking monotonously. Going by this how would he get the Iron Throne and rule the 7K?

So if Bran has a chance of being the King, why do you think it matters that Arya acknowledged Sansa's leadership?

If we are following the logical choices the show has given us as per the writing on the show, then Sansa will be in charge of the North and one of Tyrion, Jon or Dany will rule from the Iron Throne.  Recall that Varys has told Tyrion that he is good at ruling. And the show seemed to contrast impulsive, 'mad queen' Dany against good guy, pacifist Tyrion. Characters have also mentioned that Jon and Dany are good rulers. So we should expect only these 4 characters to rule anything next season.

12 hours ago, Edith said:

A lot of you love to mentioned GRRM interview about Aragon ruling, and how Dany and Jon storylines have them learning to rule, but you guys always forget that Bran was the first character who has a learning storyline in the book, and a really successful one, something that neither Jon or Dany did.

That's the show's fault where they turned Bran into an automaton whose only role on the show is to talk about Jon's past and tell Sansa that LF is a really bad man. No, really.

Edit: Reading Fire and Blood really hits home the point about how easily Dany should have been able to demolish Cersei/Jaime and their armies with her three dragons.  It should have been over in one episode. Jaime/Bronn should have been ash. Instead we have all this convoluted planning from Tyrion with her allies and Dany ends up losing everyone. And Tyrion's explanation is that people should not see Dany as a 'mad queen' but Cersei ended up using that propaganda successfully to turn people like the Tarlys to her side anyways. So why did that matter?  If Dany had won against the Lannisters and got KL, she could have turned her attention North and helped Jon much earlier and without the wight hunt.

So Tyrion either did the most abysmal planning last season so that the show could continue having Cersei/Lena Headey for next season or he was actually ensuring that house Lannister still held KL and was using his position as hand to manipulate and sabotage Dany.

Edited November 23, 2018 by anamika

[Colorful Mess]

Not just LOTR but the Hobbit. Tolkien used a prophecy twist that sounds very much like the Azor Ahai prophecy. The heroic king was supposed to return and make rivers run with gold and it would be glorious. Instead, it was Smaug setting everything on fire. Narrator: "The prophecies had gone rather wrong."

In light of that, I think Bran is the promised prince instead of Jon and Dany. And he's more likely to end up ruling Westeros than an inbred Targ baby. The two Targaryens are more likely to get involved in  a power struggle because GRRM seems bored when things go smoothly. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Colorful Mess

[anamika]

There's an interesting debate happening over at FF about the veracity of BoatsexBaby Vs Friki leaks. Jorywea claims that NCW's double chatted with him and gave him this info:

https://imgur.com/a/o6u82iy

So either he was talking about NCW filming at the same time or Jaime is actually alive during Tyrion's trial at the very end.

Jorywea thinks that Friki is 100% right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/9zgt0j/boatsexbabys_dragonpit_info_and_possibly_other/ea93xvi

[SimoneS]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

Edit: Reading Fire and Blood really hits home the point about how easily Dany should have been able to demolish Cersei/Jaime and their armies with her three dragons.  It should have been over in one episode. Jaime/Bronn should have been ash. Instead we have all this convoluted planning from Tyrion with her allies and Dany ends up losing everyone. And Tyrion's explanation is that people should not see Dany as a 'mad queen' but Cersei ended up using that propaganda successfully to turn people like the Tarlys to her side anyways. So why did that matter?  If Dany had won against the Lannisters and got KL, she could have turned her attention North and helped Jon much earlier and without the wight hunt.

So Tyrion either did the most abysmal planning last season so that the show could continue having Cersei/Lena Headey for next season or he was actually ensuring that house Lannister still held KL and was using his position as hand to manipulate and sabotage Dany.

 

I have always thought D&D had Tyrion sabotage Dany to keep Lena Headey on the show in the final season. Dany could have easily taken the Red Keep early last season, but now she is weakened for with the loss one of her dragons (although I think this is from Martin) and the lost of her allies and their militaries. 

 

7 hours ago, anamika said:

There's an interesting debate happening over at FF about the veracity of BoatsexBaby Vs Friki leaks. Jorywea claims that NCW's double chatted with him and gave him this info:

https://imgur.com/a/o6u82iy

So either he was talking about NCW filming at the same time or Jaime is actually alive during Tyrion's trial at the very end.

Jorywea thinks that Friki is 100% right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/9zgt0j/boatsexbabys_dragonpit_info_and_possibly_other/ea93xvi

So to be clear, alleged NCW's double confirmed Tyrion's trial?

Edited November 23, 2018 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

6 hours ago, anamika said:

There's an interesting debate happening over at FF about the veracity of BoatsexBaby Vs Friki leaks. Jorywea claims that NCW's double chatted with him and gave him this info:

https://imgur.com/a/o6u82iy

So either he was talking about NCW filming at the same time or Jaime is actually alive during Tyrion's trial at the very end.

Jorywea thinks that Friki is 100% right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/9zgt0j/boatsexbabys_dragonpit_info_and_possibly_other/ea93xvi

Jorywea consistently makes shit up. He took Lads’ S7 leaks, added some crap of his own, and tried to pass them off as full S7 leaked episode summaries. I also remember when he insisted that he’d been told by “a source” that S8 of GOT would premiere on a date that other posters immediately pointed out was Super Bowl Sunday! He also recently swore up and down he’d been told by “a source” that GOT would premiere in March, not April, and I believe only backed down when the S8 teaser confirming the premiere month was released. He’s an inveterate liar. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Eyes High

[cambridgeguy]

15 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Bran's a god-like being with near omniscience. See how easily he took care of Littlefinger? He can pretty much reach into anyone's past and blackmail them into doing what he wants.

That skillset would make Bran the perfect master of whisperers and/or the ultimate detective.  The only way he ends up on the throne is if they set up a system where the Iron Throne rotates among the various great houses, House Stark is first in the cycle, and they decide that women suck and only a man can sit on the throne.

[Eyes High]

6 hours ago, anamika said:

There's an interesting debate happening over at FF about the veracity of BoatsexBaby Vs Friki leaks. Jorywea claims that NCW's double chatted with him and gave him this info:

https://imgur.com/a/o6u82iy

So either he was talking about NCW filming at the same time or Jaime is actually alive during Tyrion's trial at the very end.

Jorywea thinks that Friki is 100% right.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/9zgt0j/boatsexbabys_dragonpit_info_and_possibly_other/ea93xvi

If Tyrion’s apparent bumbling in S6 and S7 was revealed to be part of a deliberate long-term effort to sabotage Dany or at least minimize the damage she could do to his family, then I would applaud D&D. 

[YaddaYadda]

Bran is a 9 year old boy in the books by now. How old is he supposed to be on the show? 17? 18?

[screamin]

57 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

If Tyrion’s apparent bumbling in S6 and S7 was revealed to be part of a deliberate long-term effort to sabotage Dany or at least minimize the damage she could do to his family, then I would applaud D&D. 

Hasn't he already admitted in so many words to Cersei that he dissuaded Dany from a winning strategy - take the Red Keep with dragons - to save Cersei's ass?

[Eyes High]

36 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Bran is a 9 year old boy in the books by now. How old is he supposed to be on the show? 17? 18?

Who knows? The show plays fast and loose with the timelines. I read somewhere that it's supposed to be one year per season of show, so roughly speaking, since Bran was supposed to be 10 in Season 1, he should be 17 in Season 8. Time passes much more slowly in the books, of course.

1 minute ago, screamin said:

Hasn't he already admitted in so many words to Cersei that he dissuaded Dany from a winning strategy - take the Red Keep with dragons - to save Cersei's ass?

Yes, but I think we can agree that there's a big difference between taking the single step of dissuading Dany from a specific action to save Cersei's life and methodically and secretly undermining her from the start, which could include things like warning of the planned attack at Casterly Rock, all while presenting himself as a helpful advisor.

...Of course, Friki's info is not that Tyrion betrays Dany but that he betrays the Starks, so it may not play like that at all assuming Friki is correct.

[Colorful Mess]

It was both Jon AND Tyrion's discoragement that swayed her from attacking the Red Keep directly. 

Both Jon and Tyrion are hoping Dany is different. Not more of the same.

This isnt how one writes a literal sabatoge plot because Dany does need to be stopped from giving in to her worst tendencies. 

But I could see her seeing it as "sabotage" if she turns on everyone in a state of paranoia.

[Smad]

I think Tyrion is subconsciously a lot more like Tywin than he likes to admit. He might hate members of his family and even say so out loud (like with Cersei) but they are his family. No matter what they do in general or do to him, they are family. He wants to protect his family, Dany wasn't really wrong when she threw that at his face. Tyrion loves his brother. He loved Tommen and Myrcella. And while he might hate his father for how he treated Tyrion, he also respected Tywin for the things he's done, especially for family. Tyrion doesn't want the Lannisters to die out anymore than the other Lannisters did.

And lets face it, Dany's black & white way of thinking needs to be reigned in often. If there was no one to advise her, Slavers Bay would be burned to the ground and all the people with it. And so would King's Landing followed by the rest of Westeros.

[nikma]

Tyrion hated Tywin because Tywin never loved him. And that's the reason he hates Cersei. He wants them to love him.

 

That's completely diffrenet from hatered Arya feels for the Lannisters or Sansa for the Boltons and so on. 

 

They feel pure hate, with Tyrion it's more complicated.

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, Smad said:

I think Tyrion is subconsciously a lot more like Tywin than he likes to admit. He might hate members of his family and even say so out loud (like with Cersei) but they are his family. No matter what they do in general or do to him, they are family. He wants to protect his family,

Yes and no. He's like Tywin in that everything boils down to his family for him and that he doesn't turn his back on them lightly. However, I think that unlike Tywin, it comes from a place of loving his family. Tywin never particularly cared about the wellbeing or love of his children, except insofar as it affected the prestige of the family. Tyrion desperately wants everyone to love him. Even his demand for Casterly Rock after Blackwater was just begging for acknowledgment from his father.

If Tywin and Cersei had shown Tyrion the slightest bit of empathy or understanding, he would have been forever loyal to them, and the Lannisters would have been unstoppable, at least once Joffrey was out of the way. That's the great tragedy of the Lannisters, although I'm not the first to point that out. It's too bad that the Lannisters couldn't operate as the Tyrells did: closed ranks, no infighting, united in one purpose. Not that it ultimately helped the Tyrells much in the show, though, I guess.

The one advantage the Lannisters have, despite being divided, is that they're crazy ruthless. Book Tyrion is no exception, although we have yet to see that side of him in the show. Certainly if it turns out in S8 that the whole time he's been making cow eyes at Dany and pledging his eternal love allegiance he's been secretly working to take her down or, failing that, at least limit the damage she can inflict on his family, we'll have to revisit the question of whether or not Book Tyrion and TV Tyrion are really are all that different in terms of ruthlessness. Presumably, his book and TV endgames will be the same.

I'd be really impressed if TV Tyrion managed to pull off that kind of long con and D&D wrote it in such a way as to make sense. On the other hand, NCW did say that there is a reveal in S8 that he compared to the killer being revealed in a mystery, and everything making sense and tying together. He could be referring to Tyrion's betrayal being revealed, going back perhaps to the moment Tyrion met Dany and heard her speech about breaking the wheel. It would certainly explain Tyrion's apparent tactical blunders in S7 and some of his decisions (getting Dany to send Daario away, for example). On the other hand, Friki said that Tyrion betrays the Starks, and that kind of betrayal wouldn't go back further than S7. I guess his "betrayal" in S7 would be proposing the wight hunt, knowing Jon would be dumb enough to sign up for it? And possibly whatever he plotted with Cersei off-screen during their meeting.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but TV Tyrion having a grand villain reveal where it's revealed that unbeknownst to the audience (distinguishing it from Littlefinger's execution in 7x07) that Tyrion has been plotting against Dany/the Starks/whomever all along would be kind of awesome. I mean, shocking and sad or whatever, but also...awesome. If it's less that and more "You betrayed us when you refused to let KL people escape because they laughed at you at your trial!" that would be...not awesome.

The big betrayal of the Starks (since Friki says he betrays the Starks) is believed to be Tyrion helping set up the Lannister attack on Winterfell, but I thought that was an AOTD-only affair, so I'm not sure what other kind of betrayal we're looking at. Maybe he hands Sansa over to Cersei (or tries to). He always liked Sansa somewhat, but maybe she rejects him and he doesn't take it well. Peter Dinklage did say that Tyrion would be facing some things about himself that he really didn't want to face. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Eyes High