Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[ReidFan]

1 minute ago, AsYouWish said:

 

Does anyone else want to try to pick five favorite episodes from Season 1? It was so difficult to narrow the field that I'm already second guessing my choices! 

LDSK, Derailed, Popular Kids, Riding the Lightning and FIsher King part 1

[ReidFan]

crap..... I liked Extreme Aggressor and Compulsion too..... 

[AsYouWish]

@ReidFan, how cool that four out of our five choices were the same! 

Like @Willowy, I also love hearing about how people's family members and friends respond to the show and to our love for it. I have a couple of real life friends who would probably think I'm "creepy" for being obsessed with a show about sadistic criminals, but that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I've been called a lot worse! 

My Season 2-5 DVDs are arriving tomorrow! Only the people here could understand just how excited I am! (I know there are other ways to watch the show, but I still prefer DVDs when possible, especially when there are bonus features and extras.) 

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, AsYouWish said:

Does anyone else want to try to pick five favorite episodes from Season 1? It was so difficult to narrow the field that I'm already second guessing my choices! 

1. The Fisher King, Pt. 1

2. L.D.S.K.

3. Derailed

4. The Popular Kids

5. Somebody's Watching/A Real Rain (I really like the way "A Real Rain" ends)

"Riding the Lightning", "Compulsion", and "Plain Sight" would be up there as other favorites from the season, too. And I like "Extreme Aggressor" simply 'cause it's fun to see how young everyone looked :D. 

4 minutes ago, Willowy said:

Thank you, Annber, she was feisty as all getout, hugely opinionated, and brooked no bullshit. Gee, wonder where I get it from? :P But this is really interesting, hearing about what one's family members think about the show! I'd love to hear more about what everyone's parents, sibs, relatives, friends, or kids think about CM, and/or your affinity for it!

LOL, I inherited similar attitudes from my parents :p. 

Yeah, my family in general watches the show to some degree or another. I know my sister talked about how she and my brother-in-law watch it sometimes, but I don't know how much of the series they've seen. Our family in general is well used to the other's TV obsessions and interests and whatnot. 

I've also got a couple friends that watch the show, and it's because of those friends I even got into this series to begin with. I hadn't heard of "Criminal Minds" at all until 2010, when I was staying at one of my friends' places for a short time and joined her and my other friend (who was visiting) in watching the season five finale the night it aired. I liked that episode, but for various reasons, it took a little longer before I became officially hooked. But better late than never, as they say :). 

[Willowy]

@AsYouWish No doubt I understand your DVD love! We did experience an unfortunate situation at one point, and I now take total comfort in physical media. You never have any guarantee of streaming, of internet, or even broadcast television, so DVDs RULE! I always buy every season (or am gifted them by intelligent offspring), so I'll never be without CM, as long as I can afford a tv and any dvd player!

@Annber03 YES! Extreme Agressor always makes my top 10 list. All our heroes were fetuses! Except Gideon. He was never a fetus.

I've gotten about 3 or 4 people from my office into the show, and all but one are freaking really INTO it. We must discuss every nuance of every episode, and we schedule our breaks around each other on Thursdays via hipchat. Funny, we don't really socialize outside of work or for any other reason. I think that's kind of cool, we have CM in common.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Willowy
Added comment to Annber

[ReidGirl]

5 hours ago, AsYouWish said:

Does anyone else want to try to pick five favorite episodes from Season 1? It was so difficult to narrow the field that I'm already second guessing my choices! 

My favourite 5 are 

1. LDSK

2. The fisher king

3. Derailed

4. The popular kids

5. Extreme Aggressor/ Somebody’s watching

[Old Dog]

Mine are:-

1. Compulsion - always been my favourite S1 episode.

2, LDSK

3. Derailed

4. The Fisher King

5. Extreme Aggressor

But I'll happily watch reruns and my DVDs of any Season One episodes over and over.

[ReidFan]

I'm currently without anything that isn't already on the harddrive (so, only Red Light, Wheels Up and To A Better Place). The dvd player isn't working. And my external harddrive on which reside every episode ever is still AWOL. I'm hoping my son can resurrect the thing and give me back my entire collection (along with all of Matthew's movies).

The thing I'm missing most off it is the unadulterated version of LDSK. Whatever being (moron? idiot? unfortunate lackey?) put together the season one dvds swapped out the song that plays over the end of LDSK (where Reid tosses that verschlugginer whistle at Morgan and strides away) for some other song. Blech. But at one time, I managed to pvr the original version off either Bravo or A&E and my son converted it to an mp4 for me and moved it from dvr to computer (to now AWOL external drive). I want that back. I'm really really hoping he can salvage that for me. 

[normasm]

When is your HeHoo coming to visit?

[ReidFan]

3 minutes ago, normasm said:

When is your HeHoo coming to visit?

he's here, but it's Thanksgiving today so I'm not gonna bother him with ancillary woes until at least tomorrow :) I have lived six weeks without those episodes, one more day won't kill me 

[JMO]

Happy Thanksgiving, Riff, and to all the Canadian CM fans on here!

[senin]

Happy Thanksgiving to all the Canadians in the forum!!

Trying to choose favourite episodes from the first seasons of CM is absolutely impossible for me, unless I can choose about 15 of the 22 or 23 episodes of the season. so I'm not going to try. 

[JMO]

I see 'scheduling purposes' as a throwaway line to dismiss bad decision-making by the network execs.  This is a show that prides itself on character development (whether or not we agree with the extent to which it happens).  The whittling down of the team was actually an opportunity for more in-depth development of each of the remaining characters, because it would have translated into putting each of them into more situations, perhaps taking them out of their comfort zones (a la Reid in prison), would have allowed each of them to demonstrate more insight,...and would have given each of them more screen time, and more time to interact with each of the others.  Having extra players as 'insurance' implies that the network sees them as interchangeable.  I don't.

It might have been interesting to see them function without a traditional muscleman, but I can see them feeling a need to fill that role.  I just think they should have filled it with either Alvez or Simmons, but not both.

I get that they need a leader, and I don't think any of the current members were ready to step up, so I think it was appropriate to bring in a new person for that role.  That the new person was a familiar face was a bonus.  

Tara technically replaced Kate, who replaced Alex, who replaced Emily.  But that has never been a 'function role', like muscleman and leader are.  And they'd already padded the profiler group by turning JJ into one of them.  I think we could have done without all three Emily replacements. 

I don't even know what to say about Stephen, except RIP.

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, JMO said:

Having extra players as 'insurance' implies that the network sees them as interchangeable.  I don't.

Heck, that was proven back in season 6, when the network felt just any ol' woman on the team would do, instead of considering the specific and personal bonds JJ and Emily had cultivated with the rest of the group as well as what their characters brought to the team dynamics and the show in general. The network cannot seem to stop interfering with this show, for some reason, and I agree that they need to back off and let the cast breathe, and let the show work with what they've got. This show's certainly run just fine with less than seven team members before, after all, so I don't get why the network seems to be thinking otherwise now. 

And having such a stuffed and constantly changing setup is unfair to any new team members who do come on board, too, because if there's too many people that makes it hard for the show to properly develop and write the new characters and integrate them, and the way the network casts some of them out almost as quickly as they bring them in is an insult to those cast members in question. I wouldn't blame them for thinking,, "So the point of telling the show to bring me on board was...what, then?" in that instance. 

I have liked the newer characters who've joined in recent years, and I agree that it's wise to bring in Matt, who we're already familiar with to some degree, instead of a whole new character. But yeah, the network's back and forth with the cast stuff does make me feel bad for the cast members who've been unceremoniously let go. 

[JMO]

I actually don't think they should have brought in Matt, since they'd already brought in Alvez.  

Of all of the various newbies, I've only enjoyed the personalities of Kate and Luke.  But, with all of the comings and goings, I've learned not to become too invested in anyone.  Except Reid, of course.  

[Annber03]

4 minutes ago, JMO said:

I actually don't think they should have brought in Matt, since they'd already brought in Alvez.  

True, going back to the usual seven would've been a better option. Just that if they insist on an eighth team member, going with somebody we already know makes more sense. 

[Willowy]

Poor Stephen... I still have mixed feelings about that one. While I was never attached to him at all, when he was let go I still felt really badly for him.

[senin]

There's another problem about bringing new people so often. If they are given a lot of screen time, some people feel that they are getting too much attention and the "old"characters don't get enough attention. If they are not given a lot of time, we don't know anything about them and we don't get attached to them. Eight profilers + unsub + victim(s) + ... in 42 minutes ? Just not enough. 

[Annber03]

Just now, senin said:

There's another problem about bringing new people so often. If they are given a lot of screen time, some people feel that they are getting too much attention and the "old"characters don't get enough attention. If they are not given a lot of time, we don't know anything about them and we don't get attached to them. 

Exactly. It's a no-win situation either way.

2 minutes ago, Willowy said:

Poor Stephen... I still have mixed feelings about that one. While I was never attached to him at all, when he was let go I still felt really badly for him.

I first saw Damon Gupton on "Bates Motel" and really liked him on there, so that added to my liking his character on "Criminal Minds" as a result. And judging from his tweets he shared after being let go, he'd seemed to really enjoy working with the cast, so that makes his being let go all the sadder. 

He handled the whole thing with absolute class, though. I especially liked his tweet when KV and AJ Cook sorted out deals to return for a new season. I'm glad he has a new gig lined up, and I wish him well. 

[MMC]

1 hour ago, Willowy said:

Poor Stephen... I still have mixed feelings about that one. While I was never attached to him at all, when he was let go I still felt really badly for him.

But at least Stephen got another role on another show not too soon after he lost his CM role. And who knows he just maybe better suited for that role than he was his CM role.

[normasm]

Bringing Emily back full time filled the gaping hole left by the absence of Hotch (although many people were and are unhappy with that, TPTB couldn't really do anything else). Bringing Tara in in season 11 made sense, especially since she was going to be part time, partially covering a vacationing MGG and a departing Morgan. Bringing Alvez in to take Morgan's place made sense because we needed an alpha male in there somewhere. But it makes zero sense to bring in Walker or Simmons. Who are they replacing? And now that Tara is on the team full-time, there's even less reason to add another profiler, be it Walker or Simmons. SMH

[Hotchgirl18]

Fire Simmoms. 

Get rid of Tara or JJ. 

Put in strong, stoic, authoritative male back in. 

Problem solved. 

[Mariana]

50 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Fire Simmoms. 

Get rid of Tara or JJ. 

Put in strong, stoic, authoritative male back in. 

Problem solved. 

Getting rid of JJ could be very problematic with the fans, I can't imagine the show without other original, but Tara/Aysha (who skipped some episodes last seasons) and Simmons would be perfect.

I wonder who decided to kill/fire Damon the network or Messer just to bring her beyond boredom super boy???

Edited October 12, 2017 by Mariana

[Annber03]

As I understand it, letting go of Damon was a network choice, not the show's. 

[Mariana]

49 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

As I understand it, letting go of Damon was a network choice, not the show's. 

Thanks!

[secnarf]

54 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

As I understand it, letting go of Damon was a network choice, not the show's. 

How do we know this?

I'm not very in tune with all of this behind-the-scenes drama, so I don't know how one could tell whether it is the network's choice or the show's. Is it typically explicitly stated?

[Annber03]

That's how I saw it being reported in the articles about him being let go. And judging from Gupton's own tweets, he seemed to indicate it was a network decision and not to do with the show itself, too. I don't know how much sway, if any, showrunners in general tend to have on those kinds of decisions. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by Annber03

[Willowy]

Yes, that's what I saw too, Annber, that it was a network decision. Damon's heartfelt letter indicated similar.

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, Mariana said:

Getting rid of JJ could be very problematic with the fans, I can't imagine the show without other original, but Tara/Aysha (who skipped some episodes last seasons) and Simmons would be perfect.

I wonder who decided to kill/fire Damon the network or Messer just to bring her beyond boredom super boy???

Apparently it was the network but I wouldn't be surprised if MESSer had something to do with it. 

[Willowy]

Actually, Hotchgirl, Erica didn't want Stephen to die, at all. It was a network decision.

[normasm]

Erica said it was not her choice. You can take that, or leave it and call her a liar. I believe her. She doesn't have so very much power. I don't agree with all the decisions she does make in a season, but i do know the networks override her (and every other show runner in the biz) all the time.

[ReidFan]

*sigh* I really wish people would stop blaming Erica Messer for things she cannot control. It's so apparent that her cast and crew love her, and I only wish my own boss was as in tune as she is.

[Annber03]

Agreed. I also don't like the whole "Mess-maker" thing I keep seeing all over the internet. One can disagree with and criticize how she runs the show, or any decisions she makes in relation to it, without resorting to that kind of mocking remark. I see that happen a lot, actually, where fans of shows get all "creative" with the showrunners' names whenever they're mocking and criticizing them over how they're handling the show, and I don't get the point of doing that. It just comes off rather disrespectful and silly. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Annber03

[Hotchgirl18]

Then how about the networks leave the show alone and let the producers e in charge? The networks seem to want to mess with the cast. But Erica cannot seem to grasp the concept of the show.

[Aethera]

People are allowed to hold their opinions about Erica Messer either way. Let's be careful to keep things civil, folks.

[Willowy]

Erica's been working on the show for now 13 seasons. Odds are she grasps the concept just fine. 

[Hotchgirl18]

Once upon a time, there was a guy named Edward Allen Benero. He created a show called Criminal Minds. This show showcased the work of the BAU team and how they profiled offenders to bring them to justice. Fast foward to new leadership and a once cerebral and thoughtful crime drama turned into a glorified soap opera. 

[normasm]

HG, dear one, the networks are simply in business to make money. Art and even entertainment are secondary.

[secnarf]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Agreed. I also don't like the whole "Mess-maker" thing I keep seeing all over the internet. One can disagree with and criticize how she runs the show, or any decisions she makes in relation to it, without resorting to that kind of mocking remark. I see that happen a lot, actually, where fans of shows get all "creative" with the showrunners' names whenever they're mocking and criticizing them over how they're handling the show, and I don't get the point of doing that. It just comes off rather disrespectful and silly. 

I've been saying this for a while now. It was a losing battle and I just gave up :(

I feel like sometimes people sitting in front of their computer screens forget that these are real people with actual feelings. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but name-calling (which is *not* an opinion) and piling all the blame for everything in the world on one person seems childish and IMO it is very easy to disregard valid points when they are couched in this sort of language.

[CrimeFan12]

3 hours ago, normasm said:

Erica said it was not her choice. You can take that, or leave it and call her a liar. I believe her. She doesn't have so very much power. I don't agree with all the decisions she does make in a season, but i do know the networks override her (and every other show runner in the biz) all the time.

Agreed.  A lot of people think she can do whatever she pleases.  Not so.  She is employed by the studios and has to report to them.   All possible story lines are run by them and if they don't like it, it doesn't get used.  They see the final cut of the episode and they don't like something in, they can make them go back and change it. They have final approval on the cast.  Say, for example, she didn't like an actor and wanted them gone and the studio was satisfied with the actor's performance, they simply wouldn't get rid of them because an employee asked them to.  Odds are they would have told her to work with them or to move on. The studios have final say on everything.  I've had no problems with the way she runs the show.  If she was doing a horrible job, it would have been cancelled years ago.

[normasm]

7 hours ago, CrimeFan12 said:

Say, for example, (EM) didn't like an actor and wanted them gone and the studio was satisfied with the actor's performance, they simply wouldn't get rid of them because an employee asked them to.  Odds are they would have told her to work with them or to move on. The studios have final say on everything.  I've had no problems with the way she runs the show.  If she was doing a horrible job, it would have been cancelled years ago.

Yes. Remember, if it were strictly up to Erica Messer, CMBB (her baby) would still be on and soaring in the ratings. TPTB gave her Hennings as a consolation prize and sent her back to the Mothership.

[MMC]

11 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Once upon a time, there was a guy named Edward Allen Benero. He created a show called Criminal Minds. This show showcased the work of the BAU team and how they profiled offenders to bring them to justice. Fast foward to new leadership and a once cerebral and thoughtful crime drama turned into a glorified soap opera. 

Actually Jeff Davis was the one who created Criminal Minds. He also wrote the pilot episode Extreme Aggressor. I do emphasize with you though in regards to what you feel that the show has become these days.

[sonia]

i'm looking for an episode where victims are trapped in a house and the song "love is blue" is playing in loop, night and day to torture them. Anyone know which episode or season it was? thanks

[BakerStreet]

I've loved the show since the first episode. The changes never bothered me. To each his own.

[Unkempt]

It's important to remember that this is a 13 year old show, so it is going to change and evolve, whether the original showrunner is in charge or not.

 

Just look at It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.  That show has been on the air JUST as long as CM without any change in showrunners (the 3 guys who created the show), and it certainly has gone downhill the last few seasons (that said, though, it's still hilarious). 

 

It's extremely rare for a show to be on this long.

 

And yes, network suits who have never worked in TV production do step in all...the....time.  It was a network suit who thought it'd be a great idea to fire Paget and AJ 7 years ago.  The reality is that this is a job for lots of people, not just a group of pals getting together and playing TV.  The network is worried about the bottom line, and if they're not making the bottom line, the network will step in.  Unfortunately for Erica, it's her name on the show, so she's the one who gets the public blame for the decision of an anonymous network boss who is well above her pay grade.

[Hotchgirl18]

So, is it the networks fault that the show became a PC "superwoman  ninja show?" It's now just like everything else on TV, which was not the original intention. 

[JMO]

6 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

So, is it the networks fault that the show became a PC "superwoman  ninja show?" It's now just like everything else on TV, which was not the original intention. 

a) sounds like it

b) I think that ship has sailed.  I haven't seen a superwoman ninja on CM for years now.

[Hotchgirl18]

34 minutes ago, JMO said:

a) sounds like it

b) I think that ship has sailed.  I haven't seen a superwoman ninja on CM for years now.

B). Prentiss and JJ. More profiling, more cerebral. Less "Dead Poets Society," please . Go back to the roots. Less unsub would be nice. 

[JMO]

45 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

B). Prentiss and JJ. More profiling, more cerebral. Less "Dead Poets Society," please . Go back to the roots. Less unsub would be nice. 

Specific examples from seasons 12 and 13 re: Prentiss and JJ?  We would be talking excessive and sustained  violence, to meet the 'super ninja' criteria. 

And I'm clueless as to what your comment on 'Dead poets Society' means. Can you explain?

[Hotchgirl18]

20 minutes ago, JMO said:

Specific examples from seasons 12 and 13 re: Prentiss and JJ?  We would be talking excessive and sustained  violence, to meet the 'super ninja' criteria. 

And I'm clueless as to what your comment on 'Dead poets Society' means. Can you explain?

Inspirational. Goody -goody. Every now and then, it's fine, but when we get Prentiss's "big speech" in 12x21 and 13x1, I want to gag. She's leading a team that chases serial murderers, not motivating high school students. It feels really out of place in the show. 

And I'm talking about seeing EVERY. DAGUM. SECOND. of the unsubs. What's the point of profiling and figuring out the killer when 20 minutes later, we already know that "Billy Bob Jones is killing women because he was rejected from the high school prom?" I want to see analysis. They should do a whodunit and take cues from Miss Fishers Murder Mysteries. It's not as dark as CM, but maybe putting the MINDS back in Criminal Minds would help.